Sex and relationships: a practical consideration
 

Basically, I need data on how the dynamic of a relationship changes once you've had sex. I'm fairly certain if you're far enough into the relationship, it doesn't have much effect. Likewise, I have the impression that if you have sex really early on, it muddies things up a bit, and then generally there tend to be issues.

So what I'd really appreciate is, if we could eschew the moral arguments for the moment, and stick to concrete examples of how actually having sex changes a relationship, if at all.

Ideally, what I hope to accomplish here is to gain some sort of idea on how first-date sex (for instance) would affect the odds of a successful relationship. I lack my own experience, so I'd like to try drawing vicariously on others.

Well, I can't give you first-hand info, but a friend of mine was in a relationship for a year (and I thought it was a really good match, too). He blamed the breakdown of the relationship on the fact that they started having sex towards the end of the year, and after a while she just decided she didn't want to be in a relationship with him anymore.

Of course, there may be other factors in this, but from my friend's POV, he thought it was a result of 'taking it to the next level.' I might know another reason it could have been the reason, but I'm the guy's friend, after all. I won't say anything about it :X.

I don't think that there's a strait answer for this simply because I don't think any two people really have the same take on sex. For some, sex is the relationship. No sex, no relationship. For others, sex is just a physical act and they don't care too much about it. For yet others, sex conveys a deep emtional attachment to someone that cannot be expressed via other means.

Because of that, its not useful to try and formulate a blanket statement regarding how sex affects a relationship. No two relationships are really the same. Your partner might interpret the sexual act in ways that you never intended, or they might not give it a second thought. Your going to have to try and read the other person to figure out how they interpret sex before making a judgement as to whether or not its really going to change the dynamic of your relationship

I'm in agreement with ElectricSheep here. No point in repeating what he said because it's more or less what I think.

Arkhangelsk - you're friend just didn't know how to fuck well. C'est tout.

At the same time though, a broad sampling of the population and their experiences would give me a framework of expectations.

Relationships aren't driven by statistics and population samples. If you start making decisions in a relationship based on averages from statistical data, you're going to run into problems. You need to learn to treat the individual as a unique individual with unique individual needs, motivations, and feelings or you will meet unpleasant surprises.

The best thing you can do is learn to read the other person, even on the first date. If you have to be as blunt as bringing up the topic of sex on the first date, than do so. The last thing you want is to be surprised to learn that your partner thinks that sex is the holiest gift from God, second only to touching the face of Jesus Christ himself.

I agree. I think this basically sums up the deeper discussion on sex and relationships. For a very broad view, normally having sex really early in the relationship--from the relationships I have seen--will either lead to boredom (since sex seems to be almost the farthest anyone could go besides marriage and children) or it will lead to the theory of "why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free". Then again, I have very strange friends that have done almost everything under the sun, but most of the time their relationships would end after sex.

I could imagine someone writing a poem with what you said.

Well, so here's the thing. One can't really get any sort of really good data on this; its not like you can do the relationship twice over and see if it falls apart quicker with sex or without sex, sooner sex or later sex, more or less, whatever.

I've known people who had sex within the first week (having both been virgins previously), have stayed together three years, and are getting married in a month. I've also known people who were together two years and never had sex, and it was a huge issue that they hadn't. I think other factors are much more responsible for relationships getting "muddy" or not, like personal maturity. If both partners want a relationship and are ok with sleeping together the first night, there's no hard and fast rule that says, "oh, they're not going to make it."

I'm sure somewhere there's someone who's done a survey about it, correlating the first time a couple had sex to how long the relationship lasts. Do some google searches, tell us if you come up with anything.

I bet any strife regarding sex is a function of how old you are. If you're still stuck in that phase where virginity is really important, either to you or your friends, it might make things weirder. But once you grow up, it's expected. No one's going to wait around for your ass if you're still ambivilant about sex at 25, except other people who feel the same.

It's hard to make generalizations on this matter because every person and every couple is different.

And regardless of how old you are - where you come from also plays a factor. I'm not talking about race or ethnicity but about people pasts. If they've unpleasant experiences w/ the act before than chances are you're better off not going that route.

But as it is in any relationship - sitting down and doing some talking, genuine bonding will serve to some good and save you from some regrets.
I know it did that for me ;)

People say this, but it's funny how most relationships inevitably wind up falling into very predictable patterns. Relationships supposedly aren't driven by statistics, but then think about how many divorcees you know. It's a function of the personality types of both people involved, but there's a lot less "unique flower" type stuff going on than people like to think. Human beings are simple creatures at heart.

:cow:
You said it, not I.

How much first hand experience do you have, Monkey King?

A little more than you think I do, but you're just trying to poison the well in lieu of making an actual argument.

Your argument is "people aren't unique snowflakes." If you think that's a counter to what Electric Sheep was saying, you fail in reading comprehension.

All I'm saying is that, if people behaved as predictably as you figure, we'd have a lot easier time in economics* than we currently do.

* The study of people vs wealth, which is arguably more important to folks than sex, in case you were going to ask what that has to do with anything.

Really. Are you actually trying to make a point here, or just trolling?

My point is that no, people generally do not have unique individual needs, motivations or feelings. ElectricSheep is trying to make the argument that no two relationships are alike, making it impossible to draw any conclusions from relational trends, and that's just not so. People tend to fall into fairly predictable behavioral patterns. Whether a relationship will hold together after having sex does depend on a few factors, but there's fewer variables than people like to think. No one likes being told how easily they fit in a labeled box, but that's the unvarnished truth.

Every rule has an exception, naturally, but those aberrant couples have such non-standard relationships that they're probably not even asking whether or not sex is going to affect their dynamic.

Incidentally, the advertising industry says that yes, people ARE that predictable. Economics is hard mainly because there are too many stupid people holding positions of authority, not because economists have a hard time figuring out how people will act.

Question... How many relationships have you been in and how old are you? because you are going about this the wrong way... You are thinking of charts and graphs and demographics.

A relationship is unpredictable... So to every person sex will have a different affect.. Sometimes it improves the relationship, sometimes it fucks it up, sometimes it doesn't make a difference.

I do agree with Monkey that people aren't unique snowflake but people are insane for the most part...

I'm practically 23 and I'm, for all intents and purposes, completely inexperienced in this type of relationship. I can't say for certain what my reaction to a real sexual experience would be in the context of a relationship, except to say I'm coming to view it as analogous to the amputation of a gangrenous limb. Seems the best way to deal with THAT is to get it over with as fast as possible. With lots of alcohol.

Clearly this is not the most healthy of outlooks. I am attempting to balance the above desire with Plato's definition of a perfect love, which is to say, sex-less. And I really can't explain why I have that as the operative model of romance. It was my hope that looking at how others had managed would give me some idea. I was in error.

And with that, I have likely condemned this thread to angst.

The advertising industry is irrelevant here. The Advertising Industry caters to millions of people at the same time. I don't think that Avalokiteshvara is planning on engaging in a sexual relationship with millions of people at the same time.

When you are describing a population, you use statistics. When you are describing less than ten people, statistics breaks down very fast and is not very useful.

Sex is to some the last frontier in a relationship. To get to that point, you will learn a lot about the other person. After the deed is done, the person loses appeal because you KNOW them too intimately and you want a change of pace.

Would you like to offer up your own relationship experience as evidence for this. Or, if that is significantly lacking, perhaps you are making a lot of money helping out singles find their optimum partner, or helping couples reach the highest percentage of happiness they can statistically have with each other.

Actually, most folks beyond teenagers and deity-searching booknerds don't ask whether or not "doing it" is going to hurt their relationship. So that is true!

There has never been a product that has flopped.

lollin

It sounds to me like you just haven't had very good sexual experiences with the people you've dated. Are you sure it's not just because you dread the act itself? It shouldn't be unpleasant unless someone is doing something wrong. Maybe that's where you always realize you're not compatible with your partner?

Aren't we describing a population? He asked for a general idea of how most people handle sex in a relationship. I'm not talking about just the few people who have posted in this thread, here.

You really hate my analytical approach, don't you. I would cheerfully offer my advice to couples to help maximize their happiness - I know you're mocking me, and it's not working - but nobody ever seems to want it, and they make you get all these degrees to do it professionally.

Not so much as mock it. I mean, you're not telling us anything we don't already know, but you're acting like it's some holy grail of science x information gradient. It's not, otherwise you or someone else significantly more creative than you would be very rich by now.

Unless they've been completely desensitized by late night cable TV and pornography and rap music, most people see sex as an intimate act of bonding. That being the case, it is best not to engage in it until you've both committed to each other. All the studies show that a relationship that is based just on sex will not last. So you have to have a fairly strong bond to begin with and view sex as the icing on the cake and not the cake itself. Furthermore, whether people want to admit it or not, sex has a powerful emotional effect on people so it is harmful if done too early. Humans are both physical and emotional so you cannot have purely physical sex without emotion. This is why I think porn is so destructive, but that's another topic.

It's true that once you have sex, your desire for your girlfriend will deflate some. You've had her, the mystery and allure of the unknown is gone. This is another reason why there must be a real commitment and strong emotional bond. There has to be something besides the sex that makes you want to stay with her. If I were you, I would make sure you really do have the necessary bond before engaging in sex. Probably the best indicator of this is asking yourself if you want to marry her for life. If the answer is yes, there's no reason to rush. You can wait until you're married, and you should. Statistics show that people who engage in premarital sex are more likely to divorce than those who do not.

Everybody knows it deep down, and this is hardly a new concept, but nobody is rich off it because people don't want to hear it. They much prefer the popular superstition of love being this magical force that overcomes all obstacles and hardships, and that each romance is a unique, delicate, beautiful things. People do not give up their superstitions easily; it forces them to critically evaluate their world, and the world is often a scary place. Far better to hide in your little safe place of misconceptions and half-truths.

I know I'm probably just spinning my wheels here, trying to beat people about the head and shoulders with the facts in the desperate hope they'll spontaneously stop being foolish. But it's far worse to stand there silently in the face of such raw ignorance and not try to speak up.

Honestly? I don't even care about the topic. I'm just trying to shake people up and put some honest thought into all these preconceptions everyone takes for granted. You can't just judge relationships by statistics and known behaviors? Why? Nobody ever asks why anymore, and that's the problem.

It's unsightly to masturbate in public like this, you know.

You're still missing the point. The kind of statistics that you want don't exist, for the most part, and the numbers that do exist can be twisted into justifying whatever you want. What on earth are you going to do with "x% of teenage relationships survive to marriage"? Not date at all while you're a teen? oh wait.

I like that 'known behaviors' though. The kinds of relationships Radez is talking about, not much is known about the partner at first. But yes, actually, most folks operate by taking the known behaviors of their partners into account.

You believe that girls only want assholes, why lie.

I beg to differ with this statement. I'm sure this happens sometimes, but I believe that more often than not, when a woman has sex with a man, he falls under some sort of magic spell that completely sucks his will to eat, sleep, breathe or think. After she has sex with him, he lives only to have more sex with her.

This is especially true if he's had to wait a little while before he ever got it in the first place.

ALL THE STUDIES!
As much as I disbeleive this assertion, what's wrong with a relationship based on sex? It not lasting? Ever consider that these people don't want it to last? I know it miht be breaking your Christian heart to hear this but not everyone is spending their days searching for a soul mate.

Firstly, trying to define a 100% purely subjective matter is... somewhat off. However, I would also think it foolish were anyone to argue that there is no basis for that of statistics; of course statistics have their grounding by virtue of their existence to begin with.

Alas, it wouldn't matter if scientists, lexicographers, God, or any varriant of a person, entity, organisation, or lack thereof went to try and define the topic of love, to which your argument did indeed shift to; they would have neither the standing or intellect to conclusively and universally do so. I think it's reasonable, in light of that, to shed whatever arguments are or were to ensue in light of that topic.

On a different note, it would be rather foolish to base any important life decision on statistics due to, once again, their nature alone. A statistic is a generalisation and they are sharply different then a conclusive definition. Surely, it would seem sensible to take the generalisations into acocunt, but to use it as the only factor upon which one's mode of thinking is to take place would seem rather limiting.

Thank you, for once I'm not the person in here arguing that.

Also, all the studies? Show me ten of the studies that say that. From credible sources, no non-accredited christian universities. After all, marriage, a commitment not often based on sex, has an over 50% failure rate in America today. Now, seeing as how christians make up over 80% of the population, I'm assuming that at least a good number of those are entered into in good christian morals.

So, again, show me some studies. Not just more words.

And since we're being scientific about this, how much does a relationship have to be based on sex? Are we talking purely physical attraction drawing two people together, or a fuckbuddy relationship? Perhaps a one-sided relationship where one party basically serves the other in hopes of getting emotional attention (VG)? I mean, 'based on sex' isn't very specific.

Maybe they were fuckbuddies who kept cockblocking each other. That just won't work out.

In terms of casual relationships and being fuckbuddies, I don't think that's what Avalokiteshvara was asking about in the first place.

So of course Rab and Denicalis are right in saying that there are people who DON'T want a lasting relationship and are only in it for the sex.
But what Avalokiteshvara was most likely asking is how a long-term relationship - as in two people who are dating with the intent of staying together - CHANGES when these two have sex for the first time together.

There are some people who DO have sex on a first date. And that may actually lead to a very healthy, long relationship. For others, that's just not how it works. For these people, sex on a first date may be what ruins the entire future of the relationship, and sometimes relationships DON'T work out because of sex on the first date.

Then there are some people who prefer not to have sex on the first date. The reasoning behind this is that if they are going to be together for a long time, why would they NEED to have sex RIGHT NOW?
A lot of people may say that it's because they're devout christians or something, but that's just taking the easy way out.
You don't HAVE to be religious to think that casual sex is wrong.
It depends on your moral upbringing - your parents, friends and family, and of course your own personal judgement.

In terms of sex in general (not just on the first date), it may change the dynamics of the relationship altogether. You may feel a stronger, closer connection with your partner than ever before; and sometimes you may feel just the same as before, as if nothing happened.

You can’t really put rules on this type of thing, because if you do it’ll probably blow up in your face and that more than likely will critically change the relationship. The general idea is that you should have sex with someone when you feel a certain sense of comfort and trust with a person. If you’re new to it, it’s probably better you start off slow but make sure you progress somehow. As long as you’re honest with yourself, your partner is as well, and you make damn certain that you’re on the same page, the relationship isn’t likely to change much. Keep in mind though, that you doing everything right on your part is still only 50% of the total equation.

The reason some people can fuck only after a few hours of knowing someone is because of experience/sexual maturity. The more experience you get, the less psychological comfort is needed to perform right sexually. Also, the less likely you are to have unrealistic expectations from doing it. Once again though, keep in mind that only one person doing what they should do is still only 50% of the total equation.

Example 1: I meet a girl. I’m modestly experienced. The girl is totally inexperienced. The girl expects me to “be a man” and guide her sexually but this is an unspoken or out right fabricated expectation. I miss read her and make the assumption that her experience is relatively on par with me. We have sex and it either sucks or is mediocre because she’s expecting too much from me and I’m getting frustrated by her lack of effort, which affects the overall quality of the experience for both. Sex just revealed an imbalance in expectation, spoken or not, which will affect the relationship.

Example 2: I meet a girl. I’m modestly experienced. The girl is way more experienced than I am. My ego gets in the way of better judgment, because I’m digging this chick but I think that my lack of experience to her is going to be a turn off. So I fake it in hopes of being able to overcome that and fuck her brains out. But what really happens is that I just repressed insecurity to point where I no longer let it affect my immediate consciousness. The girl totally can’t pick up on this, because I repressed it so well. So, the girl is expecting me to behave like whatever expectation she has in her mind. We do it, but since you really need to let loose while fucking, my repressed insecurity effects me psychologically which in turn affects my performance. Once again, sex just revealed an imbalance in expectation, spoken or not.

Example 3: A guy is totally experienced and he meets a chick. He’s fucked plenty of chicks, enough to know how to handle insecure and inexperienced ones. The girl is inadequately experienced. Meaning, yea she’s done it with a fair share of guys but it wasn’t all that so she doesn’t know what it’s like to have her brains blasted. The guy enjoys her company enough where he would like a relationship, but he’s been there and done with the whole love conquers all crap already and simply wants to date casually. The girl initially agrees because it sounds good to her. But after getting her brains fucked out, she can’t help but get attached emotionally and call it love because it’s a feeling she never had before. Once again, sex just revealed an imbalance in expectation, spoken or not.

I personally think everybody fucks up pretty bad when they’re new to it. I think some are just more willing to talk about it than others. I know I did anyway. My advice to you would be learn from your mistakes, not to avoid making them.

Honestly... I've only had one relationship where sex came out very early (I think I had known him for approximately 10 hours before we had sex) and it didn't turn out very well, though I attribute much of that to simple lack of maturity on my part. My mind was swimming with pheremones and suchlike for a very long time after that encounter, and after only a few days I found myself telling him that I loved him.

Time went on and I realized that the only thing we truly shared a connection with was a sexual one, and that I had essentially lied to him when I told him I felt that way. After a month and a half or so, I had to find a way to break it off with him before things got any further, just so we could both spare ourselves a lot of hurt since I knew it wasn't going to just go away or change.

Essentially, I think that having sex that early on did mess up the kind of relationship I could have had with him had something like that not turned up so soon, but that was entirely because I couldn't control my feelings well enough to actually analyze them accurately before spitting them out during a moment of passion. I think that if you're emotionally capable of keeping your head out of the clouds it probably won't hurt things too much, provided your partner is able to meet you halfway on that one. Judging that last part is probably the hardest aspect of it, since you can't really be sure how people are going to react to sex if you've only just met them.

I find that despite claims of subjectivity regarding relationships that "love" fits into some patterns.

A relationship is defined by three primary components according to one theory: Commitment, Passion, and Intimacy. Commitment is the decision to stay in the relationship, Passion is the physical part while intimacy is the desire to be with one another (in a non-sexual sense).

People can have relationship based on any of these components. But love itself will not last if it's primary only of the passion aspect. People easily adapt to sex after a year or so and thusly why many people divorce if they haven't developed the commitement part after adaption to sex.

Also sex screws people up especially if they're not mature. They'll start to think they're in love but it could be as simple as infatuation from the very start. It's not good to immediately to start a relationship right off the bat with sex because it doesn't give as much priority over the development of passion and commitment.

I dunno, but it kinda seems that once sex starts the arguments start then too, but I dunno lol that what my healthteacher said.

I guess you don't have a lot of personal experience with that, then ?