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eriol33 Jun 24, 2006 12:04 AM

Motoi Sakuraba
 
I create this thread for people who listen to Sakuraba's works. I would like to discuss how and why you guys enjoy his works.

To be honest, I couldnt stand the music of Sakuraba, and I rarely enjoy his compositions on any game (Tales of Destiny, Valkyrie Profile, etc). Maybe the main reason is because his style doesnt suit me at all. He's described of using progressive rock and cinematic score which is my least favorite genre in music. We could talk about matter of personal taste here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Motoi Sakuraba takes the baroque and melodic Japanese progressive rock of the 1980s and expands it with his own trademark complex rhythms, emotional flutes, use of male choir and heavy reverb. The lighter side of his style is a crossover between symphonic progressive rock, cinematic orchestra and new age. Sakuraba is considered to be one of the best progressive rock keyboard players with an awesome performing style (as can be witnessed on the DVD release of his Star Ocean and Valkyrie Profile live concert), introducing many jazz-like improvisations to his music style. In recent years he has made a serious effort toward expanding his style even further.

So tell me guys, what do you think about Motoi Sakuraba? What makes you enjoy the music? Hope this could lead good discussion.

Basil Jun 24, 2006 12:09 AM

I haven't tried a whole lot of his music, but his compositions for Tales of Symphonia are marvelous. There's also a couple of tracks from Mario Tennis 64 that I enjoy quite a bit.

Which really makes me want to try the music from Baten Kaitos and the other Tales of games sometimes. But I'm too caught in other projects at the moment... including a Mario Tennis Power Tour GBA conversion, which he composes as well.

lazuli Jun 24, 2006 12:23 AM

I couldn't stand Sakuraba until Baten Kaitos came along...which pulled me in with quite a few of its songs. And it's really still the only OST of all of his works that I enjoy. I haven't got the soundtrack for #2 but I'll get the game eventually, I hope the music is just as good.

lightgem Jun 24, 2006 02:30 AM

I own a copy of Gikyoku Onsou. It is an excellent work especially with the clever and colorful combination of jazz and progressive rock. All of the tracks are worth listening to and every second of a track is enjoyable and memorable.

Megavolt Jun 24, 2006 04:16 AM

He's actually one of my favorite VGM composers. I like the ethereal and mystical quality that many of his softer tracks have as well as the energy of his dungeon and battle themes. I guess he isn't for everyone, but I find that his music tends to work very well in context, and that suits me just fine. My top favorites of his would have to be Valkyrie Profile (don't much like the arrange album though and I haven't heard the voice mix album), Star Ocean 2 (arrange album is good too and the megamix is...different; I know he didn't arrange the latter), and Shining the Holy Ark (arrange album is fantastic), but I'm usually at least okay with whatever he does, even if it's your standard Tales soundtrack that doesn't stand out much.

DarknessTear Jun 24, 2006 04:39 AM

We need a Sakuraba FTP. With EVERYTHING he did in it. Also I love Sakuraba, I just hate his Voice Mix albums. They seem like wastes of good music.

Tir Jun 24, 2006 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarknessTear
We need a Sakuraba FTP. With EVERYTHING he did in it. Also I love Sakuraba, I just hate his Voice Mix albums. They seem like wastes of good music.

My thoughts exactly. :)
Sakuraba is one of my favourite VGM composers, and I rank his Star Ocean 2 OST very high, it's one of the best OSTs I've ever heard. Too bad that it costs so much these days, I would really like to own it.

watkinzez Jun 24, 2006 04:58 AM

I prefer Baten Kaitos to his work in the Tales series. Naturally, the battle themes are the highlights- though there never seems to be enough tracks. BK had half a game's worth of music, and then proceeded to spread it out to monotomy.

Argentis Jun 24, 2006 05:12 AM

I first heard Star Ocean 2 (while I was playing the game) and I remember quite a few tracks being memorable, however I thought the score (at the time) was 'immature' I didn't like his style back then.

Then I heard Star Ocean 3 (when I downloaded the soundtrack) - I listened to a few tracks and didn't listen to it again for two years until I played the game.

It was then when Baten Kaitos and Tales of Symphonia OSTs came out. I thought Tales of Symphonia had terrible sound quality so disregarded it. Then I gave Baten Kaitos a good listen then LOVED the style, though I had to play Star Ocean 3 and Tales of Symphonia to appreciate the music, they are now some of my top soundtracks

There isn't one track of Sakuraba's I do not like, though I want to play Valkyrie Profile as I find it difficult to listen to its soundtrack (though I like the Arrange Album) - I think that's the only way I could appreciate that OST.

Baten Kaitos Battle themes rule! SO2 & 3, ToS rules - Everything rules! (or rocks)

He one of my top fav composers - *chants Motoi*

Antignition Jun 24, 2006 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megavolt
He's actually one of my favorite VGM composers. I like the ethereal and mystical quality that many of his softer tracks have as well as the energy of his dungeon and battle themes. I guess he isn't for everyone, but I find that his music tends to work very well in context, and that suits me just fine. My top favorites of his would have to be Valkyrie Profile (don't much like the arrange album though and I haven't heard the voice mix album), Star Ocean 2 (arrange album is good too and the megamix is...different; I know he didn't arrange the latter), and Shining the Holy Ark (arrange album is fantastic), but I'm usually at least okay with whatever he does, even if it's your standard Tales soundtrack that doesn't stand out much.

Honestly I've never been to familiar with the technical aspects of music. So stuff like his use of "reverb" and "symphonic progressive rock" don't really make things clear for me (granted, they give me an *idea* but thats about as far as it goes). Megavolt nails it down to a "T" for me.

Star Ocean 2 goes down as one of my top 5 games of all time, and its because of playing through that game so many times that I developed an appreciation for his music (granted, I have only listened to his SO2 and VP soundtracks so far). It also might have to do with how his style is so different from that of the other RPG game composers, and seem to fit the mood of the environment perfectly.

Taisai Jun 24, 2006 06:09 AM

Currently, he is the most popular composer next to Uematsu and Sugiyama in Japan.:)
I know the popularity of composers is proportional to how many big RPGs they could have been involved in, though.
(Btw, if Mitsuda had kept working on more famous games, he definitely would be the third...)

I confess I also didn't like him so much.
As far as I played some of Tales of..., SO2 and VP1, his music was always sort of blatting and cheesy.
I always could find some diggity pieces for battles at the same time, but those were in cheap sound samples and simple composition.
Moreover, I couldn't understand why he always used so many percussions, and composed music in monotone.
Of course it's simply because I'm the sort of person who prefer ambience to other components and love the composers such as Sakimoto, Keiki Kobayashi, Hamauzu and Mizuta.

However, I can dig VP2.
I don't buy the game yet and heard less than 10 tracks, though.
This time, his music is like orchestra and trad, which fit in game so much and not blatting, rather than progressive rock.
Also, sound quality is quite good, contrary to his usual works. I wonder if he uses not synth live but instruments.

Now I have to offer a sincere apology for underrating him.
He is an able composer and could make such a music if he wanted to try.
Still, he hasn't maybe because not so many VGM fans would need ambience as film score for game music.
Actually, I have seen many criticize VP2 music and say "too ambient" lol

EDIT:As for Tales of..., I often hear he has no drive at all. Tales of the Abyss has streaming music, but that music was quite far from VP2.

jb1234 Jun 24, 2006 08:32 PM

It honestly depends on the game. I find his "Tales" work to be dull, dull, dull. Through all of them, you can't find anything that makes them distinctive. Any track from ToR could fit easily into ToS's soundtrack (and so on). It's like the developers went to him and said, "Okay, Sakuraba. Write 10 town themes, 5 battle themes, several map themes and make them as undistinguised and generic as you can. Oh, and have them done by next week!"

Bleah.

On the other hand, his more epic stuff (SO2, VP, Baten Kaitos) is generally quite good. I like "Golden Sun" as well.

Vkamicht Jun 24, 2006 08:47 PM

I heart Sakuraba, and I'm really looking forward to his next non-game related work. I've also been playing VP2 lately and I'm loving the music so much...

By the way, the music of most Tales games after Phantasia have a certain "sound" to them that if you must blame anyone, blame Shinji Tamura. I thought Tales of Symphonia had a horrid soundtrack, but then again I never could get into the game itself. (Tales games usually have music that works better after having heard in context of the game, IMO)

jb1234 Jun 24, 2006 09:09 PM

Quote:

By the way, the music of most Tales games after Phantasia have a certain "sound" to them that if you must blame anyone, blame Shinji Tamura. I thought Tales of Symphonia had a horrid soundtrack, but then again I never could get into the game itself. (Tales games usually have music that works better after having heard in context of the game, IMO)
Has it ever been proven how much of the music Tamura writes? Out of the Tales games, I say Eternia has the best soundtrack (at least in-game) but I still can't listen to the soundtrack all the way through. Symphonia is even worse. The music just goes on and on and on and on...

DarkRavenX Jun 25, 2006 11:40 AM

The Tales of the Abyss gamemp3s release is tagged correctly, with all of Tamura's works correctly labeled. Looks like he contributes to the more "silly" and "peaceful" works. He does his own compositions, seperate from Sakuraba, which i always thought Tamura played in as an arranger of some sort. So check that out.

On thread topic, i love Sakuraba. The Tales soundtracks can get a little boring, but his solo works are awesome. SO3, BK1 and 2, and its starting to look like VP2 are my favs. Finally in VP2 Sakuraba's "battle theme" that seems to follow to every game he works for isnt there, total shocker there. I cant wait to see more contributions from him in the future.

Synthesis Jun 25, 2006 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tir
My thoughts exactly. :)
Sakuraba is one of my favourite VGM composers, and I rank his Star Ocean 2 OST very high, it's one of the best OSTs I've ever heard. Too bad that it costs so much these days, I would really like to own it.

I agree, when I first played Star Ocean 2, I was hooked at "The Venerable Forest" and "Pure A Stream". I enjoy both his progressive rock and baroque-style melodies, although I prefer the latter. I really think it's awesome how the music he makes really personifies the areas you are playing through.

Speaking of the soundtrack, it is the only soundtrack to date that I have ever paid to have imported. It was around 50 dollars including shipping, but extremely worth it. :)

orion_mk3 Jun 26, 2006 01:51 PM

Sakuraba is a superior orchestral composer who, like many of the best VGM composers, is capable of working across many different genres and mixing influences in his work.

Unlike some (Uematsu and Mitsuda come to mind), Sakuraba tends to segregate his compositions; a track will either be orchestral in style, or will feature rock and heavy synth, with few exceptions. The dual album release for Star Ocean 3 is a good example of this methodology.

Sakuraba's orchestral writing tends to be extremely lush, with sweeping melodies and grand scope. His theme for Rena in Star Ocean 2 is probably the most famous example of this style, but there are plenty of lesser-known gems in the composer's work. His synth quality tends to be good, though perhaps not up to the gold standard of Mitsuda.

The unfortunate thing about Sakuraba is that while he consistently produces high-quality and original music, he is also mired in repetition and unoriginality when it comes to his more rockish tunes. While his rockin' field themes tend to work well enough, Sakuraba's battle themes are almost uniformly tedious. I often refer to "Sakuraba's Battle Theme," because the various tunes are so similar in construction and instrumentation.

Still, on balance, Sakuraba has produced many solid four-star scores, as well as a good number of stellar five-star tunes, even if his endlessly repeated Battle Theme now earns an automatic one-star rating from me :)

Namakemono Jun 26, 2006 02:12 PM

I find Sakuraba's orchestral pieces very weak compared to those of Hamauzu, Sakimoto and (let alone) Sugiyama. Oddly enough, I think prog-rock battle themes are his bread and butter, although they sometimes are not too original. I also enjoy some of his ambience themes.

StarmanDX Jun 26, 2006 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion_mk3
While his rockin' field themes tend to work well enough, Sakuraba's battle themes are almost uniformly tedious. I often refer to "Sakuraba's Battle Theme," because the various tunes are so similar in construction and instrumentation.

That's not being entirely fair. In the Baten Kaitos I & II soundtracks alone are examples of the five different styles of battle themes he uses. While each song of a style tends to be pretty similar to others of its style, and a handful share similar melodies cross-style, not all of his battle themes are of the exact same construction and instrumentation. Examples:

-Rockin' (e.g. Vitriolic a Stroke, Violent Storm, Iconoclasm, Shogyo-Mujo)
-Rockin'/Orchestral Hybrid (while fairly similar to his rockin' style, I think they're different enough to be noted) (e.g. The True Mirror, The Valedictory Elegy)
-Orchestral (e.g. Dark Conviction, Rumbling of the Earth, Supreme Ruler of the Nine Heavens, Poacher, Bitter Enemies in the Same Boat)
-Jazz Organ (e.g. Glowing Cloud, Powerful Voice of an Old Soul)
-I don't know what the hell to call them/rap/techno? (e.g. Chaotic Dance, Chaotic Dance 2) (and while not particularly good on their own, at least they fit their in-game battles reasonably. That and I find them hilarious for some reason.)

If you haven't heard them, I want to know if you still automatic one-star-rate his orchestral battle themes (I'd suggest Bitter Enemies in the Same Boat of BKII out of them). Come on, they're at least 2-3 stars. BKII also has a pretty nifty orchestral version of The True Mirror, but then again, it still is the same song as The True Mirror.

Anyways, personally, while I'm not particularly fond of most of his work for the Star Ocean and Tales series, the Baten Kaitos and Golden Sun soundtracks are some of my all-time favorites.

niki Jun 26, 2006 03:26 PM

While modern Sakuraba just doesnt appeal to me, I love some of his Wolfteam and other early chiptune works. He was one of those composers who knew how to take full advantage of the early VGM chiptune systems, building melodies and musical effects in a kinda baroque fashion.

His more recent stuff just sound all the same to me. Abusive use of echoes and obcessive synths on most of the time poor melodies, in my opinion. I find his chiptune works, like it's often the case with me, to be much more sensible and inspired.

orion_mk3 Jun 26, 2006 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarmanDX
That's not being entirely fair. In the Baten Kaitos I & II soundtracks alone are examples of the five different styles of battle themes he uses. While each song of a style tends to be pretty similar to others of its style, and a handful share similar melodies cross-style, not all of his battle themes are of the exact same construction and instrumentation.

If you haven't heard them, I want to know if you still automatic one-star-rate his orchestral battle themes (I'd suggest Bitter Enemies in the Same Boat of BKII out of them). Come on, they're at least 2-3 stars. BKII also has a pretty nifty orchestral version of The True Mirror, but then again, it still is the same song as The True Mirror.

I think you misunderstood me. I said that most of Sakuraba's battle themes are very similar, and that most of them are examples of his rock, rather than orchestral, style. Of course there are exceptions, and those tend to be among his better efforts, even though I think that the best is still weaker than most of his field themes.

For example, "Integral Body and Imperfect Soul" from Star Ocean 2 is not what I would consider an iteration of Sakuraba's "Battle Theme" in that it is orchestral and doesn't feature bass guitar and drum kit work. I'd probably rate it in the two to three star range. "Stab the Sword of Justice" from the same game, however, is very much in that niche, and would recieve the automatic one star from me.

Godai Jun 26, 2006 09:21 PM

Motoi Sakuraba's progressive sound background is what always brings me back to listening to him and anicipating his upcoming works. Being a fan of groups like Emerson, Lake and Palmer, King Crimson, Porcupine Tree, etc., his works really speak to me.

I'm loving "Celestial Troupe" and "Never Surrender" off that VP sampler disc.

jb1234 Jun 26, 2006 09:40 PM

I've always found "Integral Body and Imperfect Soul" to be one of the best SO2 tracks. Sakuraba is usually pretty good with final battle themes.

kuttlas Jun 26, 2006 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godai
Motoi Sakuraba's progressive sound background is what always brings me back to listening to him and anicipating his upcoming works. Being a fan of groups like Emerson, Lake and Palmer, King Crimson, Porcupine Tree, etc., his works really speak to me.

I can't say I care for 99% of all of Sakuraba's works (the other 1% is Baten Kaitos OST's True Mirror), especially the Star Ocean and Tales of whatever OSTs, but I'm a big fan of ELP and King Crimson. Yes they might be in similar genres but only because Sakuraba can't seem to stop ripping the genre off. Most of his works sound like he is trying to stereotype progressive rock, similar to how a composer would create a stereotypical asian theme with the pentatonic scale and various asian instruments. I don't like his solos either, but i've heard worse. I don't think he's a bad composer, just one of the most overrated. This thread needs more hate anyway.

Edit: I forgot to say, Supreme Ruler of the Nine Heavens has one of the best titles ever, like something Joe Stump would have written.

Synthesis Jun 27, 2006 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion_mk3
For example, "Integral Body and Imperfect Soul" from Star Ocean 2 is not what I would consider an iteration of Sakuraba's "Battle Theme" in that it is orchestral and doesn't feature bass guitar and drum kit work. I'd probably rate it in the two to three star range. "Stab the Sword of Justice" from the same game, however, is very much in that niche, and would recieve the automatic one star from me.


I understand where you would say that "Integral Body and Imperfect Soul" would not be considered a standard battle theme. However, do you think it is complimentary as the final boss battle theme? I found it to be a rather disappointing attempt at being a climactic piece. Have you heard the arranged version of this track? What are your thoughts on it?

Speaking of Sakuraba's battle themes, what is your take on the rest of the themes from SO2?

Dynamite
Climax at the Tower
Tender Spot
Shiver
Tangency
Beast of prey
Mighty Blow
The Incarnation of Devil

I really loved the battle themes he created for taking on the Ten Wise Men. Those themes are fast, relentless, and carry a sense of urgency as well. I like Sakuraba's little synth-freestyle in Mighty Blow as well. What do you think?

orion_mk3 Jun 27, 2006 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthesis
I understand where you would say that "Integral Body and Imperfect Soul" would not be considered a standard battle theme. However, do you think it is complimentary as the final boss battle theme? I found it to be a rather disappointing attempt at being a climactic piece. Have you heard the arraged version of this track? What do your thoughts on it?

I agree; it's all buildup and no payoff. The buildup *is* cool and filled with organ music, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthesis
Speaking of Sakuraba's battle themes, what is your take on the rest of the themes from SO2? I really loved the battle themes he created for taking on the Ten Wise Men. Those themes are fast, relentless, and carry a sense of urgency as well. I like Sakuraba's little synth-freestyle in Mighty Blow as well. What do you think?

Let's see:

Dynamite - I'd put this in the "Battle Theme" category; the repetitive bass/percussion and lackluster melody are pretty much hallmarks of that style.
Climax at the Tower - Like a thematic fragment of the "Battle Theme"--the repetition is there in spades, but the bass/percussion is less pronounced.
Tender Spot - Pretty much the same as "Climax at the Tower" with more of a percussion kit; both seem like unfinished parts of the "Battle Theme."
Shiver - More like one of Sakuraba's field-rock themes.
Tangency - Definitely a version of the "Battle Theme."
Beast of prey - Like a slower and more percussion-heavy "Climax."
Mighty Blow - Another clear iteration of the "Battle Theme."
The Incarnation of Devil - More like a field theme.

Prinnydood Jun 27, 2006 02:49 PM

For me I find a lot of Motoi's stuff sounds very similar, while every so often a soundtrack will come out that stands out above the rest. I thought Baten Katos was one of his best works, followed probably by Valkyrie Profile or Star Ocean 2

Onyx Jun 27, 2006 05:59 PM

I really don't like Sakuraba all that much. The only soundtrack I truly enjoyed from him was Star Ocean 3: Til the End of Time (which I thought was lightyears better than SO2).

Maybe it's just me, but I think Sakuraba's newer music is actually better than his older stuff. I'm probably the only person in the world who thinks that the VP2 promo CD already sounds better than the entire VP1 soundtrack. Tales of Symphonia was head over heels better than the other Tales games, too, and the Baten Kaitos soundtrack was surprisingly good.

Quote:

Unlike some (Uematsu and Mitsuda come to mind), Sakuraba tends to segregate his compositions; a track will either be orchestral in style, or will feature rock and heavy synth, with few exceptions. The dual album release for Star Ocean 3 is a good example of this methodology.
I wouldn't call that methodology a good thing, especially in SO3's case. :) That's why the SO3 soundtrack got such negative reviews. It wouldn't have been so bad if he mixed things around; I was playing around with the soundtrack in my playlist editor the other day, and I noticed that the orchestral songs stand out a helluva lot more when mixed together with the rockin' and heavy synth songs.

Cyrus Jun 28, 2006 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onyx
Maybe it's just me, but I think Sakuraba's newer music is actually better than his older stuff. I'm probably the only person in the world who thinks that the VP2 promo CD already sounds better than the entire VP1 soundtrack.

I´m sure you are NOT the only person who thinks that way, but I couldn´t agree less. I have the impression that the 4 VP2 tracks on the promo CD sound too much like his Baten Kaitos works, which isn´t necessarily a bad thing because I really like the music in BK and its sequel. But on the other side I prefered a different and more distinct approach. I abolutely loved his style in Valkyrie Profile, the heavy use of synth brass in "Confidence in the Domination" or the mellow sounds of "To a World Becoming Impure" - I thought it sounded so much different from any gamemusic I´ve heard so far. But I won´t judge from a selection of 4 songs, I´ll wait for the full soundtrack release, respectively the western launch of the game. The impact of the compositions in conjunction with the actual game sequences is usually different to the impression you get when listening to the plain score.

Somebody might say my point is irrelevant because Sakurabas works usually sound the same all the way, as for me, I don´t think so. Tales Music sounds nothing like Star Ocean, BK is different too, and so was Valkyrie Profile. Sure, there are similarities in terms of instrumentation and sometimes he recycles certain chords and melodies, but I wouldn´t go so far to say he´s overdoing it in a painful way (well, maybe sometimes, but considering how many soundtracks he´s done in the past few years, I wouldn´t blame him). If people listened to his older effords (Arcus for instance) carefully and compared it to his more recent music, they could see he has changed his style more that some of you would have expected.

Godai Jun 28, 2006 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuttlas
I can't say I care for 99% of all of Sakuraba's works (the other 1% is Baten Kaitos OST's True Mirror), especially the Star Ocean and Tales of whatever OSTs, but I'm a big fan of ELP and King Crimson. Yes they might be in similar genres but only because Sakuraba can't seem to stop ripping the genre off.

Not sure how you can rip the genre off if you come from a background of that genre. He's a prog artist, so he has this kind of sound in his soundtracks. Sounds logical to me.

orion_mk3 Jun 28, 2006 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onyx
I wouldn't call that methodology a good thing, especially in SO3's case. :) That's why the SO3 soundtrack got such negative reviews. It wouldn't have been so bad if he mixed things around; I was playing around with the soundtrack in my playlist editor the other day, and I noticed that the orchestral songs stand out a helluva lot more when mixed together with the rockin' and heavy synth songs.

Oh, I don't think it's necessarily good either. Orchestra/rock fusion is tough to do, but it can produce some dynamite tracks (though not "Dynamite" from SO2). Not to mention that putting all the weaker and more repetitive rock songs on a single album totally dissuades me from buying it.

Synthesis Jun 28, 2006 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion_mk3
Orchestra/rock fusion is tough to do, but it can produce some dynamite tracks (though not "Dynamite" from SO2).

I thought that was pretty funny.


I'm curious. What do you think of Sakuraba's synth instrumentation on the previous songs I asked you to judge? Is it just the bass / percussion that you dislike?

If you don't mind I'm going to review some of the tracks I asked you to.

Shiver - I like the sense of urgency in this track. If you've played the game (Which I'm sure you have) then you'd understand why Sakuraba would do this. I really like the second half of the track (:46-end) which serves as a bit of a bridge / build-up to the track loop.

Tangency - I liked this track up until about 45 seconds. I really like the synthwork he displays in this track. I believe it's the fastest track in the game.

Beast of Prey - My biggest gripe about the track is that the glitter-synth lead is so weak in my opinion. He could've put any other type of sound in it's place and it probably would've sounded better.

Mightly Blow - I really love Sakuraba's synth in this track, especially his freestyle towards the end of the track. The drumwork I like because it was more along the lines of a break-beat which I believe is the only time he used that kind of beat in the soundtrack.

Climax at the Tower - This track stood out to me mostly for the pitch-bending synth he used. Made the song sound very condescending.

After listening to the tracks again I can understand where you are coming from about the bass and percussion. To be honest, I like the drumwork a lot more than I like the bassline. It seems to me that a lot of times the bassline just follows the drums. What do you think?

orion_mk3 Jun 29, 2006 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthesis
I'm curious. What do you think of Sakuraba's synth instrumentation on the previous songs I asked you to judge? Is it just the bass / percussion that you dislike?

I don't dislike the bass/percussion per se, but Sakuraba recycles it so much that I'm pretty tired of hearing it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Synthesis
After listening to the tracks again I can understand where you are coming from about the bass and percussion. To be honest, I like the drumwork a lot more than I like the bassline. It seems to me that a lot of times the bassline just follows the drums. What do you think?

I'd agree, and I'd also add that the melody tends to follow the drums and basline as well. Of course, I have to allow for variations based on taste; someone who loves synth rock of the type Sakuraba cranks out is clearly going to find more merit than someone like me.

Synthesis Jun 30, 2006 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orion_mk3
I don't dislike the bass/percussion per se, but Sakuraba recycles it so much that I'm pretty tired of hearing it.

I'd agree, and I'd also add that the melody tends to follow the drums and basline as well. Of course, I have to allow for variations based on taste; someone who loves synth rock of the type Sakuraba cranks out is clearly going to find more merit than someone like me.


What do you think of his work in Valkyrie Profile? I thought it was rather pointless for him to include several tracks from Star Ocean: The Seoncd Story on the tail end of the second OST disc. Mostly due to that fact that these tracks weren't even in the game.

What about it's battle themes?

- Turn Over A New Leaf
- Fighting The Shadowy Gods
- Confidence in Domination

Dr. Uzuki Jun 30, 2006 04:13 PM

Quote:

What do you think of his work in Valkyrie Profile? I thought it was rather pointless for him to include several tracks from Star Ocean: The Seoncd Story on the tail end of the second OST disc. Mostly due to that fact that these tracks weren't even in the game.
You never got to the Sepheric Gate, did you?

Synthesis Jun 30, 2006 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Uzuki
You never got to the Sepheric Gate, did you?

No, but from the looks of it it resembles a Star Ocean 2 "Cave of Trials".

Regardless though, even if the tracks were used there, it still makes Sakuraba look like he cut corners.

Cyrus Jul 1, 2006 01:18 AM

The Seraphic Gate was a kind of bonus treat (and a very nice one, for that matter), so I didn´t consider it a compromise that Sakuraba reused some So2 tracks - just a little reference for die hard gamers who could make it that far.

Gameguardian Jul 1, 2006 03:53 PM

Motoi Sakuraba's work is outstanding, I must say. His compositions surpass many others and he has proven that he can work with different styles and his piano works are superb! I really like the way he mixes both slow and fast tunes in his game music. And also that he uses all sorts of instruments, from piano and violins to drums and techno.
I think that;
Nobuo Uematsu (Final Fantasy etc.),
Motoi Sakuraba (Star Ocean etc.),
Hitoshi Sakimoto (FF Tactics etc.),
Yasunori Mitsuda (Chrono-series),
Koichi Sugiyama (Dragon Warrior/Quest),
Akira Yamaoka (Silent Hill),
Yoshitaka Hirota (Shadow Hearts),
Michiru Yamane (Castlevania),
Ken Nakagawa (Atelier Iris),
Junichi Nakatsuru (Soul Calibur, Ace Combat),
Keiki Kobayashi (Soul Calibur, Ace Combat),
Miki Higashino (Suikoden) and
Jeremy Soule (Elder Scrolls, Guild Wars) are the best compositors of game music there has ever been!!!

Golfdish from Hell Jul 2, 2006 01:04 AM

Many thanks for the rip! Currently getting...If anyone needs an alternate source, they'll be up in my VGM Central share. Once it finishes.

Sakuraba to me is all about the rockin'. My opinions pretty much run the exact opposite of orion's...His orchestral works pretty much sound the same (pretty much the entire Star Ocean 3 OST Vol. 1 sounds alike to me, I can't tell one Baten Kaitos non-battle theme from another most of the time...Baten Kaitos 2 basically lost me once it got past disc 1...Star Ocean 2 had probably his most noteworthy orchestral-style work to me...I basically have no interest invested in the style and it comes off flat and downright tedious nearly everytime...And in the case of "So Alone, Be Sorrow", downright offensive), while I find his strongest and most memorable melodies within his dungeon/battle themes. Probably why VP is without question my favorite work of his (and a huge reason I enjoyed playing the actual game) Yeah, they do share a similar style, but they're far from indistinguishable...I would say it's no different than the whole of Uematsu's battle themes: Familiar, yet different (when one comes on, I have to think sometimes to identify it with which game it's from...On the same hand, I'll never mistake one of his for another composer's). There's just a lot more of them, comparing Sakuraba's track record. The only bad thing about them is I have problems picking a favorite, which isn't so bad, as I've found very few "bad" ones. Personally, I'm glad to see him making more use of the electric guitar instead of the guitar synth he used for so many years...I would love to see much of VP redone with live guitar.

So yeah...Keep on rockin' Sakuraba!

punkmaggit Jul 2, 2006 04:27 PM

It's a shame that his other work just isn't up to the elegance that is the Baten Kaitos soundtrack. I think even he quoted in some interview that he was almost shocked at the beauty of the game, which in turn inspired him to create such beautiful music. My personal favourite would have to be Gentle Wind, which is the town theme when you first start the game. The way it ends with the high flute is just remarkable.

Quote:

think that;
Nobuo Uematsu (Final Fantasy etc.),
Motoi Sakuraba (Star Ocean etc.),
Hitoshi Sakimoto (FF Tactics etc.),
Yasunori Mitsuda (Chrono-series),
Koichi Sugiyama (Dragon Warrior/Quest),
Akira Yamaoka (Silent Hill),
Yoshitaka Hirota (Shadow Hearts),
Michiru Yamane (Castlevania),
Ken Nakagawa (Atelier Iris),
Junichi Nakatsuru (Soul Calibur, Ace Combat),
Keiki Kobayashi (Soul Calibur, Ace Combat),
Miki Higashino (Suikoden) and
Jeremy Soule (Elder Scrolls, Guild Wars) are the best compositors of game music there has ever been!!!"
Are you kidding me?! Where on earth is Masashi Hamuzu and Hrioki Kikuta??!

Gameguardian Jul 2, 2006 04:47 PM

Ah, my bad! Of course there should be room for both of them and many others, but I'm not too familiar with Kikuta's work except for the Seiken Densetsu OST, which is beautiful nevertheless. I haven't listened to Hamauzu at all, I believe (has he worked on the Unlimited Saga soundtrack, I think I saw his name there somewhere. Final Fantasy X as well?).

I MUST add Koji Kondo, Kenji Ito and Hirokazu "Hip" Tanaka to the list as well. There is always someone forgotten in the midst of writing, but hey, we all make mistakes =)

Double Post:
Forgive me for this, but I really didn't like Unlimited Saga's soundtrack, it was too quirky, I think that's the word for it =) But some songs were of course great, like the "March in C 2ch Mix Ver.", which is music at it's best. Maybe if I listened to Unlimited Saga's soundtrack outside the game, it would get better.

Bottom line though: Game music rocks!

WarpStar Jul 3, 2006 03:03 PM

Sakuraba has definitely been climbing in my personal composer rankings lately. I've been listening to his stuff a lot, in the past week or so especially.
I can't get enough of "Highbrow" from SO3...it's playing right now, actually.

wvlfpvp Jul 3, 2006 03:10 PM

Sakuraba is, quite possibly, the single most repetitive VGM composer ever.

I think I've heard the same echo-y piano song in egvery game he's composed for.

If it wasn't for his arranged stuff (which is a million times better than the original ingame stuff (Star Ocean arrangetracks ftw)) and the Baten Kaitos 2 OST, I'd utterly hate him. Thankfully, someone else composed some Tales music, so I don't have to hear his stuff for every game in that series. I mean, I liked the ToP soundtrack until I heard other music composed by him. Ugh.

Kaleb.G Jul 6, 2006 01:02 AM

Moved an orgy of VP2 posts here:
http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/ge...-game-rip.html

I like Sakuraba when he does original stuff, but I can't deny that he re-uses certain melodic hooks (and even particular instruments) way too damn much, and becomes uber-repetitve in a lot of his work.

Gameguardian Jul 6, 2006 05:29 AM

Well, I kinda agree with you, that Motoi Sakuraba can be repetetive some times, but that his style with some rock, jazzy influnences and piano is great. Many tunes may sound the same but I wouldn never take as hard words as "hate" anytime in my mouth against any composer or the likes. You can hate politicians (who use the state's money to fund their own personal lives), war, unfairness, people who've been mean to you, criminals or other scum, but you can't seriously hate someone who composes music, honestly.

Anyway, Mr Sakuraba has absolutely done and hopefully will do more considerable amounts of great music in video games. And if you don't have a knack for Sakuraba music, there are many other composers who may speak to you more than he does. But I myself love Sakuraba's work, it rocks!!!

IpsoPhatso Jul 6, 2006 09:53 PM

It's kinda funny, I am really neutral with him. I think his COMPOSITION ability is mediocre. The ability to be original, the original to have well thought out compositions, I really never see from him. Most of his stuff, even the stuff I find beautiful, such as The True Mirror, or Supreme Ruler of the Nine Heavens... it's extremely cliched.

But that's where the OTHER hand comes in... While not great at composing original stuff, the man can just flatout write good sounding music. The True Mirror is full of chord progression cliches. The beginning part from :05 to 1:00 in that piece is one of my favorite light battle themes from a game... It's just beautiful. I love the violin, I love the bassline jumping all over, the basic and simple percussion... All of which are playing cliched stuff. I mean seriously, the part starting at :19 begins a chord progression of C-Minor, BFlat Major, AFlat-Major, BFlat-Major... Bob Dylan wrote All Along the Watchtower using the same progression, but starting at A-Minor. I swear, since the extreme popularity of that, especially after Hendrix's version, which moved up one step, that's like "The" progression to use. I hear it all the time... But it's use in The True Mirror within Baten Kaitos really was well.

He's goes for sound only, and because of that, he gets some great stuff, and some horrible stuff. Golden Sun's music is another good example. I think there are quite a few really good songs from that soundtrack... But some, such as the Desert Theme, are laughable. I literally laugh everytime I hear the Desert Theme. It's got a neat SOUND, but the composition and randomness is completely funny to me.

He's an interesting fellow, and I'd much rather have his good music and "live with" his bad music, than have none of his music.

eddie4ever Jul 20, 2006 09:23 PM

I Think Motoi Sakuraba Best Works Were Golden Sun, Baten Kaitos And The Star Ocean Series I Didnt Really Listen To His Work Before But When Golden Sun Came Out And I Found Out He Composed The Tracks I Started To Listen To More Of His Composed VGM Soundtracks


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