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-   -   Horizontal and Vertical Scrolling Shooters! (http://www.gamingforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=807)

Megalith Beast Mar 4, 2006 04:28 PM

Horizontal and Vertical Scrolling Shooters!
 
Hello everyone! It's time to discuss this supreme genre!
Ok so side scrolling shooters have been around since the dawn of gaming (starting with Space Invaders!) and they've come a long long way! But what's happening to them now? Are they starting to die out or are they still going strong? Europe certainly doesn't seem very interested in them anymore. If I'm right, there are still scrolling shooters being developed by 'Cave' in japan, and maybe some other companies.

Okay well what sequels do we want to see next??? Gradius VI? Yes please! And maybe the Radiant Silvergun series could continue? C'mon Treasure! Give us more gold!!! The latest one I've played was Raiden III, and it was just....awful. Such a disgrace to the series...

Anyways, I think these are my top 5 favourite horizontal/vertical scrolling shooters:

1.Thunderforce IV
2.Radiant Silvergun
3.G-Darius
4.Gradius V
5.Raiden II

Tortalius Mar 4, 2006 05:45 PM

I"m a fan of Ikaruga easily. Difficult, but no impossible, but yet getting a high chain score is so damn hard.

Perfect game

surasshu Mar 4, 2006 06:04 PM

Yeah I must add my support for this genre of games too. Dimahoo, Ikagura and Gunbird are my favourites. Gunbird is hilarious, such a funny game, and so much gameplay value, especially in the Special Edition that they recently brought out with Gunbird 1 and 2 in one.

Dimahoo is probably the hardest one I know. It also has the black/white system that Ikagura has, but it's harder because you still get damaged (power-down) from whatever bullet you get hit by. It has really groovy music too. I always like the music in these games, so funky and crazy.

Igakura is just brilliant, I love that game. It's almost more like a puzzle game in certain passages, but with like, speed and techno music and lots of shooting. Great!

Megalith Beast Mar 4, 2006 06:43 PM

Ah yes Ikaruga is damn good! Brilliant fast paced action and awesome music! Although I can't seem to avoid being killed multiple times on the 4th stage (the one with hundreds of bullets coming out of that big core)!

I just picked up a copy of Gunbird Special edition recently. I wasn't too impressed by the 2nd Gunbird, but the 1st one was really fun, and yeah very funny too!

Pietak Mar 4, 2006 06:45 PM

The game that really got me in to shooters would be The Guardian Legend. Fun game really, and I don't think many actually know about it. I haven't played any others as of yet, because I just found the game a few days ago really. It really sparked my interest in shooters now. I definetly have to check out Ikaruga. That's gotta be next on my list...

David Deluxe Mar 4, 2006 06:58 PM

I'm not really an expert regarding Shooters, but I'm a fan of games like Ikaruga, Bari Arms, R-Type and Gradius as well. I always see people crying about the difficulty of those games, but actually there are not that hard. Challenging fits the whole thing a lot better. Ikaruga for example was claimed to be one of the hardest games ever made. It wasn't easy, that's for sure, but as long as you have great ambitions and want to beat that game, it's not impossible to do. Getting high chains on the other hand, is something completly different.

Together with the intense music and the great and fast gameplay, Horizontal and Vertical Scrolling Shooters might not be everyone's taste, but usually, games from this genre make fun and are always good for a short break.

Kaiten Mar 4, 2006 07:10 PM

I haven't peered very hard into the genre, but R-Type III and Thunder Force 4 are great games for me. Also the freeware Warning Forever is a very fun and addictive scroller, one of the best freeware games on the PC.

NoMaD Mar 4, 2006 07:14 PM

Ikaruga is definitely up there somewhere - an excellent addition to anyone's collection. Other notable shooters include Soukyugurentai, Batsugun, Darius Gaiden (which I prefer over G-Darius), Do Don Pachi and a slew of others.

It's a shame companies won't port over some of the newer releases to our shores.

Megalith Beast Mar 4, 2006 07:45 PM

Ah I haven't heard of these japanese shooters you are mentioning NoMaD! Yeah why don't they release them outside Japan?? How rude! Well as I said before, outside japan I don't think there's much of a market for these games. Everyones still obsessing over 'superb graphics' instead of wanting some hardcore intensive action!
I really hope that we get another scrolling shooter as revolutionary as Ikaruga again sometime soon, so people might start paying more attention to the genre!
I'll mention a few more classic shooters now just for the hell of it! -

Axelay (SNES) - brilliant graphics, music and gameplay! It was cool because the player had all the weapons at the start of the stage, so there were no powerups. You just had to hang on to your weapons! It featured horizontal AND vertical scrolling levels. Loads of fun!!

Gynoug (Megadrive) - I'm not sure if this is a well known one or not. You take on the role of an angel guy, who shot the crap out of reeeally strange enemies. Some of the bosses were VERY disturbing! I'd like to see this game with a graphical update, it would be truely scary I think! Yeah, well, cool style, but the gameplay is kind of mediocre.

Zero Wing (megadrive) - Hah, well this game is pretty dam mediocre! Fun for the first level, then it just gets sooo boring! But it's just legendary because of the 'engrish' on the intro screen, I'm pretty sure I don't need to explain what I'm talking about!

Xenon 2 (megadrive) - This one is probably below average I think! First of all, it featured one pretty lame music track that repeated over and over, which was incredibly annoying. Secondly, the rate at which you fire is just, horribly slow, you end up missing half the enemys. It was just a pretty dull game! But...there were some cool powerups, you could get bullets and lasers firing everywhere!

Bio-Hazard Battle (megadrive) - This is an AWESOME horizontal shooter! You play as bio-ships (look like bugs), that shoot at organic things, including bees, eyeballs, big worms, bats, and err plenty of bugs really! Graphically its stunning for a megadrive game! Plus, you have these reeeally cool charge up shots. Did I mention it's simultaneous 2-player too?

Kaiten Mar 4, 2006 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalith Beast
Ah I haven't heard of these japanese shooters you are mentioning NoMaD! Yeah why don't they release them outside Japan?? How rude! Well as I said before, outside japan I don't think there's much of a market for these games. Everyones still obsessing over 'superb graphics' instead of wanting some hardcore intensive action!
I really hope that we get another scrolling shooter as revolutionary as Ikaruga again sometime soon, so people might start paying more attention to the genre!
I'll mention a few more classic shooters now just for the hell of it! -

Axelay (SNES) - brilliant graphics, music and gameplay! It was cool because the player had all the weapons at the start of the stage, so there were no powerups. You just had to hang on to your weapons! It featured horizontal AND vertical scrolling levels. Loads of fun!!

Gynoug (Megadrive) - I'm not sure if this is a well known one or not. You take on the role of an angel guy, who shot the crap out of reeeally strange enemies. Some of the bosses were VERY disturbing! I'd like to see this game with a graphical update, it would be truely scary I think! Yeah, well, cool style, but the gameplay is kind of mediocre.

Zero Wing (megadrive) - Hah, well this game is pretty dam mediocre! Fun for the first level, then it just gets sooo boring! But it's just legendary because of the 'engrish' on the intro screen, I'm pretty sure I don't need to explain what I'm talking about!

Xenon 2 (megadrive) - This one is probably below average I think! First of all, it featured one pretty lame music track that repeated over and over, which was incredibly annoying. Secondly, the rate at which you fire is just, horribly slow, you end up missing half the enemys. It was just a pretty dull game! But...there were some cool powerups, you could get bullets and lasers firing everywhere!

Bio-Hazard Battle (megadrive) - This is an AWESOME horizontal shooter! You play as bio-ships (look like bugs), that shoot at organic things, including bees, eyeballs, big worms, bats, and err plenty of bugs really! Graphically its stunning for a megadrive game! Plus, you have these reeeally cool charge up shots. Did I mention it's simultaneous 2-player too?

Speaking of Japanese games, is there any place where I can find a list of great (or good) Japanese PC games that never made it to the U.S.? I'm rather curious to see if the far east does PC games better than we do.

Dyne Mar 4, 2006 07:58 PM

Where's the Turbo-Grafx 16 love?!

R-type, Ordyne, Blazing Lasers.. that would some good shit.

I think I'll go play those right now.

Megalith Beast Mar 4, 2006 08:14 PM

Ah I don't have a Turbo-Grafx 16! Although I know how great the original R-type is! : D I understand that the commodore 64 had a whole load of excellent scrolling shooters! I've never got to play on one of those!

Does anyone know of some really obscure shooters that are really good???

Wall Feces Mar 4, 2006 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pietak
The game that really got me in to shooters would be The Guardian Legend. Fun game really, and I don't think many actually know about it. I haven't played any others as of yet, because I just found the game a few days ago really. It really sparked my interest in shooters now. I definetly have to check out Ikaruga. That's gotta be next on my list...

THANK YOU.

Guardian Legend is one of the best games on NES. It combines vertical shooters with top-down adventure games, and it works really well. I love this game to death. It still holds up to this day.

Ikaruga is definitely the best shooter as of late... I can't find a game that is as fun to play as it is hard. Its simplicity is its beauty.

Elixir Mar 4, 2006 08:22 PM

Asking me what my top 5 shooting games are, is like asking somebody if they're human. Shikigami no Shiro II, Imperishable Night, Mushihimesama, ESP Galuda.

I prefer vertical over horizontal, but if I had to play a horizontal one I'd choose Pro Gear, by Capcom. It's beautifully created and had it not of been horizontal it'd definitely be in my top 5. I've been forcing myself to pump up the color in my tv just to see smaller bullets in these games.

Megalith Beast Mar 4, 2006 09:15 PM

Ah yes Fantasy Zone! I forgot about that! That's an odd one, because you can travel left AND right. Yeah I've only played the Megadrive version 'Super Fantasy Zone', its really good! Cute characters and really nice super happy colourful environments :D

Hey nice link, wow I didn't know there were so many Fantasy Zone games! I shall have to play them!! Those Space Harrier type ones look interesting. Lol at the NES box art. Was there no communication between the box artist and the rest of the team?? I think I'll start a 'crap box art thread'!

Darkcomet72 Mar 4, 2006 09:32 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/mast0000.png http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/mast0001.png http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/mast0004.png
So it's not entirely accurate (you bomb the buildings instead of ramming into them)(yes there WERE 2 buildings there)

Megalith Beast Mar 4, 2006 09:49 PM

My god! These games can magically predict terrible futures! Either that, or there was a terrorist on the development team.

Pietak Mar 5, 2006 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprouticus
THANK YOU.

Guardian Legend is one of the best games on NES. It combines vertical shooters with top-down adventure games, and it works really well. I love this game to death. It still holds up to this day.

Ikaruga is definitely the best shooter as of late... I can't find a game that is as fun to play as it is hard. Its simplicity is its beauty.

Glad to see more know of this game than just me!

And since were on a posting of screens, here are a few screens of the game in question.
Combining both top-down adventure:
http://www.classicgaming.com/shmups/...age/sshot5.gif
With fast paced shooting:
http://www.classicgaming.com/shmups/...w/bosspic1.gif

Megalith Beast Mar 5, 2006 11:01 AM

Hey that game looks really interesting! Its a nice idea to combine different genres together.
I remember Rocket Knight adeventures on the megadrive had a few side scrolling shooter sections! (for the rest of the game is a 2d platformer)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/Mantoid/rka-4.png

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/Mantoid/rka.jpg

Darkcomet72 Mar 5, 2006 11:14 AM

Destroy the C -WTF THAT THING HAS LEGS-

Great game.

Megalith Beast Mar 5, 2006 11:25 AM

Lol and this level here reminds me of Parodius, with the flying heads!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...s_0006_226.png

And at the end of this level, you had to fight this pretty difficult Pig spaceship thingy!!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...s_0006_237.png

Oh yeah, and on the Snes version of Sparkster, there was a vertical scrolling shooter level, which was fun!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...stersnes-7.png

And it ended with a battle against that evil Rocket Knight. Both of you took control of big robots and punched the crap out of each other!

Rocca Mar 5, 2006 11:43 AM

Sparkster was a great, great game. Nice to see it getting some love for once.

Megalith Beast Mar 5, 2006 12:27 PM

Okay lets discuss immensly difficult shooters!
We all know that shoot'em ups are generally very challenging, but some are just ridiculous! So which of these games have been so hard for you that it's frustrated you to death??
I can think of 2 off the top of my head.

Gunbird 2

Just too many bullets, how on earth do you avoid it all???

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...unbirdtwo1.jpg

Gradius 3

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...adius3_070.gif

This game is just so hard! If you die once, it's pretty much game over because you lose all of your powerups and it becomes impossible! The part of the game shown in the image is just....mental. Trying to avoid these jerky legs is extremely hard. Plus, if you don't destroy these walker robots quickly enough, they just squish you into the corner! How unfair!

Overkill Mar 5, 2006 03:25 PM

Megalith Beast: Personally, I didn't find Gradius III challenging. Maybe on Arcade mode, but every other difficulty posed little difficulty. Also, I recall that those robots were extremely easy if you had four options, twin lasers, missiles and the reduce shield.

If there was anything on Gradius III that annoyed me, it was the speed wall on level 7. The fact that the final boss was laughably easy, just barfing slow motion blobs at you, was pretty annoying too. Gradius III was the first shooter I ever played and completed.

On the other hand, I actually found Gradius V somewhat challenging, because it was a LOT faster paced compared to Gradius III. That, and I was used to the older versions of some of the bosses, so I was caught off guard a number of times by the new movement patterns they introduced.

Also! Why doesn't the thread title include Tubular Shooters? I loved Gyruss. The music in this game was extremely catchy, and although the bosses were somewhat repetitive it was still a good playthrough.

Darkcomet72 Mar 5, 2006 03:35 PM

The SNES version of Gradius III is definately doable, yes. Even on Arcade mode.

But the Arcade Version is cheap. Not like Metal Black cheap. Like Shotgun to the face cheap. People actually did not like it because of the difficulty.

Megalith Beast Mar 5, 2006 03:40 PM

Hmm how very odd, I can complete Gradius V quite easily. The thing is, by the time I get to those robots I have lost all my power-ups and I'm trying to defeat them with a pea shooter. Yeah the arcade Gradius III is damn hard, I barely scraped my way through that!
Sorry what do you mean by Tubular Shooters? I do not know of this Gyruss game.

Elixir Mar 5, 2006 06:58 PM

Man, Rocket Knight Adventures was great. I hated it at the same time for it being so difficult, and the boss music was actually boss music, not just a warped remix of the normal level with some fast paced beats.

Although it doesn't fit the shooting catagory. And if you think Gunbird 2 has alot of bullets, you've clearly been missing out on the CAVE shooters.

http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/5...85951rj.th.jpghttp://img483.imageshack.us/img483/2...ange3cd.th.gifhttp://img483.imageshack.us/img483/1...on180sy.th.png

TRZD Mar 5, 2006 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalith Beast
Ah I don't have a Turbo-Grafx 16! Although I know how great the original R-type is! : D I understand that the commodore 64 had a whole load of excellent scrolling shooters! I've never got to play on one of those!

Thing is, the C64 had SEUCK (Shoot-em-up Construction Kit) so quite a few of the shooters that came out and tended to be released with magazines were often home-made. This wasn't necessarily bad, but it had quite a limitation in that a lot of the games were very similar. Some of these were also insanely hard. As for others on the C64, I think Catalypse was a good one, and Iridium was insanely hard even if it was pretty short, though I don't remember too well now.

I also had X2 on the PSX which I don't think was ever very well-known but it was quite a challenge, in fact I never did beat the final boss... since then I haven't really played the genre, but it was one of my favourites especially in arcades.

Megalith Beast Mar 5, 2006 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elixir
And if you think Gunbird 2 has alot of bullets, you've clearly been missing out on the CAVE shooters.

Actually I've played Mushihimesama and I thought it was pretty easy compared to Gunbird 2. There may have been a load more bullets, but it was waaay more predictable.

A shoot'em up construction kit? Dam I wish I had that when I was younger, I could have made loads of bad ass shooters! Oh well!

Overkill Mar 5, 2006 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalith Beast
Sorry what do you mean by Tubular Shooters? I do not know of this Gyruss game.

This Wikipedia article summarizes the subgenre well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot_%...p#Tube_shooter

Also, here's a screenshot:
http://www.games4nintendo.com/nes/thumbs/gyruss.jpg

Elixir Mar 5, 2006 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalith Beast
Actually I've played Mushihimesama and I thought it was pretty easy compared to Gunbird 2. There may have been a load more bullets, but it was waaay more predictable.

You couldn't be more wrong. Firstly, Gunbird 2 is a Psikyo shooter. CAVE shooters are deliberately made difficult as they are. The middle of level 3 and onwards in Mushihimesama(yes, I own the game also) becomes quite difficult. Mushihimesama is easier than, say, Dodonpachi Daioujou, but it's still hard. They all are. Gunbird 2 isn't that hard in comparison, except if for if you die on the last level, you're forced to start the level over from the beginning. Which is really annoying.

I had my tv sideways last night, in fact. Playing Mushihimesama in TATE mode(or otherwise known as having your tv sideways) is really fun, but it won't improve your skill by much.

I've found myself not using bombs in these games whatsoever. I'd rather die than use a bomb, and I don't know why. For a long period I forgot about bombs even existing(during my Ikaruga phase) but yeah.

I'm looking to pick up ESP Galuda over the next month or so, just because ESP Ra.De is so awesome. While Mushi is fun, I still can't help but think that there's better games I'm missing out on.

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/4851/esp37ta.th.jpghttp://img484.imageshack.us/img484/7...uda15xu.th.jpghttp://img484.imageshack.us/img484/5...uda24zg.th.jpghttp://img484.imageshack.us/img484/8...game0si.th.jpg

Megalith Beast Mar 5, 2006 08:59 PM

Hmm okay, well you see, in Mushihimesama I always use the tactic of dropping a bomb just before I die! I think I'm probably better at this game 'cause I've played it a lot more. It is really good! I just love the insect theme, I am a bug maniac btw.

Overkill: Yeah that wikipedia page was interesting! I didn't realise Shoot em ups had been put into so many different catergories! Well this topic can also include Tube shooters, and 3d shooters like Star Fox and Panzer Dragoon too!
The only Tube shooter I've played is Tempest, and its very good.
Has anyone played the arcade version of Tempest with the vector graphics?? It's sooo nice, everything leaves these little trails of light behind! Amazing! Why aren't there more vector graphics games in arcades??

Darkcomet72 Mar 5, 2006 10:43 PM

Mushihimesama has 3 difficulty levels, so it's hard to compare difficulty to a game like Gunbird 2. Default is original, which I think is the easiest of any cave game ever (next to ESPgaluda). Manic is tricky however, but definately doable. Ultra is perhaps the hardest of any cave game ever (cept mabye Ketsui).

ESP.Ra.De is good, but outdated by later cave games in terms of level design. Bosses suck outright IMO.

Elixir Mar 5, 2006 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkcomet72
Mushihimesama has 3 difficulty levels, so it's hard to compare difficulty to a game like Gunbird 2. Default is original, which I think is the easiest of any cave game ever (next to ESPgaluda). Manic is tricky however, but definately doable. Ultra is perhaps the hardest of any cave game ever (cept mabye Ketsui).

Ketsui isn't hard, but playing DOOM in Ketsui is basically impossible. One of my friends owns basically every japanese 2D shooting game ever made, and I think we have both decided that Daioujou is the hardest, even on normal mode.

Disregarding the different difficulty levels in Mushihime, it's pretty solid. Daioujou on the other hand throws you right into it, and it doesn't give up. I always enjoyed ESP Ra.De on my xbox, and still do, mainly because it wasn't something that was impossible or farfetched, it was quite easy. The absorbing scheme which is replacing the bomb scheme in Ra.De is also nice, and gives it a Giga Wing feel.

Darkcomet72 Mar 5, 2006 10:51 PM

Yeah, Ketsui eases you into the game for the most part.

Still, to complete the special loop seems harder than completing both loops in DDPDOJ. They are both IMO Cave's best games.

MrMonkeyMan Mar 6, 2006 12:24 AM

Yes, for people who don't care for the 2nd loop, Ketsui is probably easier then Daioujou (I will know for sure soon enough), but the special loop of Ketsui looks pretty crazy. Although, when you see those top players use 5 hypers all at once in 2-5 of Daioujou, well, that's impressive (winamp just randomly picked a Daioujou song...). Then again, just making the special loop of Ketsui is hard enough (no bombs or deaths in the first loop).

Can't forget to mention the seperate scoring systems and how Ketsui encourages you to camp out at the top of the screen and Daioujou often has you leaving the small fries flying around to keep your chain alive, then using hypers to max out the difficulty for a short time and pump up your chain.

ESPGaluda is nice too. Easy as many have said, but still lots of fun to play for score. Very satisfying to watch all the enemie's bullets turn to gold that your character just vaccuums up. A lot more relaxing then some of Cave's other releases.

Oh, and don't forget to watch my ESPGaluda video!

Elixir Mar 6, 2006 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMonkeyMan
Oh, and don't forget to watch my ESPGaluda video!

Watching now. What is with the time manipulation option, do you get any penalty for slowing bullets down?

I am definitely going to buy ESP Galuda now. I love/d Ra.De and I still play it often on my xbox, so there's no reason why this game isn't going to live up to my own hype.

MrMonkeyMan Mar 6, 2006 01:59 AM

Umm, no penalty. You can use the slow bullet mode (kakusei mode) strictly for survival if you don't care for score at all, but you can only use it for as long as your green gems last. The enemies also fire more bullets when you are in kakusei mode.

There's also an over kakusei mode where the bullets move even faster and you simply get points for being in this mode (not a whole lot though). This is what replaces the regular kakusei mode when you run out of green gems.

*AkirA* Mar 6, 2006 02:24 AM

The only memories I have of this genre was chilling at pizza hut and dropping quarters on Aero Fighters.

I can still smell the grease and black people.

evilboris Mar 6, 2006 07:57 AM

... You guys need to get a Saturn.

Cotton 2, Cotton Boomerang, Soukyugurentai, Radiant Silvergun, Shienryu, the Capcom Generations packs, the Parodius games...

Darkcomet72 Mar 6, 2006 09:53 AM

I request MrMonkeyMan make an Kakusei-only vid. From the moment he starts, he must be in Kakusei mode. If he gets hit, he must immediately turn back into Kakusei mode. That would be cool (especially since they did it already with ESPgaluda II)

CLOudkiller Mar 6, 2006 10:41 AM

Perhaps you've heard of the Legendary Wings for NES? one of the greatest Side-scroller for its time. http://ryangenno.tripod.com/images/N...ndaryWings.jpg

Megalith Beast Mar 6, 2006 08:05 PM

Aah no I haven't heard of Legendary Wings! It looks like fun!
Dammit there's so many shooters I don't know about, I'll never get time to play them all! Righteo I'm gonna have to try and get a copy of ESP Galuda 'cause it looks awesome!

Well, anyway, someone mentioned Radiant Silvergun...now I friccin' love that game! So lets just remind ourselves of how great it is...

Here we go! Shooting a crazy boss here with a nice fading out to purple background! : D

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...ilvergun10.jpg

Ahh yes the almighty big, er sword thing. I can't remember what its called now. Radiant Sword??

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...d_02_small.jpg

Another crazy boss! Swipe them pink bullets up and charge up that sword dammit!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...ilvergun-2.jpg

Hah, lets not forget 'be attitude for gains'!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...id/boss5-1.jpg

And here we have, the final boss, a big glowy man!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...id/boss1-5.jpg

Wow! What a game! So dynamic, and reeally long for a scrolling shooter too!

FOXDIE Mar 7, 2006 09:31 PM

Oh, Radiant Silvergun...

An excellent gameplay experience with an outstanding soundtrack by Hitoshi Sakimoto.

The best shooter of all time. PERIOD.

.
.
.

You can even write a complete novel 'a la' Xenosaga with RS's storyline. :p

Darkcomet72 Mar 7, 2006 10:21 PM

I'm like the only person who think Ikaruga is better than Radiant Silvergun. Even in the music department.

I could never get into chaining in RS, because you can only chain 1 color for the majority of the levels, leaving enemies out. Sure, it's unconventional, but I wasn't too fond of it. And the fact that you HAD to score to level up your weapons made it very unforgiving. It's still a fantastic game, with some cool bosses as well.

Elixir Mar 7, 2006 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkcomet72
I'm like the only person who think Ikaruga is better than Radiant Silvergun. Even in the music department.

I own both games and trust me, Ikaruga is better. Radiant is sought after and overpriced to hell, though. Just check ebay.

See what I mean?

FOXDIE Mar 7, 2006 11:03 PM

I think Radiant Silvergun > Ikaruga in terms of gameplay and replay value, but it is just my personal opinion. However, I must admit that Ikaruga's soundtrack is just amazing. I spent HOURS with Ikaruga's soundtest...

Darkcomet72 Mar 7, 2006 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elixir
I own both games and trust me, Ikaruga is better. Radiant is sought after and overpriced to hell, though. Just check ebay.

See what I mean?

LOL people still call Ikaruga "Radiant Silvergun 2".

Edit: Wait WTF price was an irrelevant factor in my argument.

Magic Mar 7, 2006 11:31 PM

I guess someone should put in a good word for Zanac. In fact, people who liked The Guardian Legend will probably enjoy Zanac since it seems to have been made by the same people and it employs a lot of the same techniques as TGL, not to mention a very familiar sound-byte.

So far Gradius has been my favorite series because I find it manageable and fun. I've played 1-3 on MAME, rented III-IV for PS2, and bought 5. Still, I really want to play one of these games in an arcade. Was 5 released in Japanese arcades? I could only hope that someone in America imported a machine and that I'd be lucky enough to come across it.

Megalith Beast Mar 7, 2006 11:34 PM

Well I had a hard time deciding which one I liked best...but I feel that Radiant Silvergun is better because I think it has more personality. Also, the anime sequences were awesome! Does anyone actually understand what exactly is going on in the end sequence??

::Ending sequence SPOILERS!!::

I think I read a translation somewhere along time ago, but the story goes something like this...
Theres a broken Legoman Robot and a big ass Diamond (stolen from Raiden II) found underground. I think it was called the 'Stone-like'. Okay and then theres lots of enemy ships trying to destroy the world....I think the Stone-like controlled them.
Righteo, so the Stone-like sends the heros back in time (10,000BC I think??) And then, they die when the Stone-like explodes, possibly. Legoman is on earth, and has DNA of the pilots, so brings them back to life by cloning them.
Okay thats all very well, but, why does the Stone-like come back to life again in the future? Did Legoman repair it?? Oh and I think at some point during the game, the Stone-like kills everyone on earth with that big white light!
Sorry, can someone correct me on where I'm completely wrong, or just write the whole story up so it makes sense! I think that would be really cool and interesting!

Darkcomet72 Mar 7, 2006 11:43 PM

Hiroshi Iuchi was on acid when he made this game

Ikaruga has some crazy insights as well, some that I actually prefer.

I can't believe he did the music for Ikaruga as well. He praises Sakimoto's work on RS but dosen't realize there are a few people that prefer his own work :D

PKO Mar 10, 2006 10:23 PM

Yeah, lately I've been playing these two games on the PC called BlueWish and GreenWind (Link). The screens are a bit small but the games are good; I like BlueWish the best.

And I know this is old but check out this video of this guy playing Ikaruga with two ships by himself. It's sick.

Megalith Beast Mar 11, 2006 05:42 PM

Hey I just watched that video with the guy playing Ikaruga with the 2 ships! That is....amazing! How on earth do you have coordination? It scares me that people can dedicate so much to one game! It's a shame he loses a life on the boss eh?

Josiah Mar 12, 2006 07:21 AM

I like shmups, but I've never really got into much of the more recent ones. Ikaruga is tempting though. My olders favorites include:

Raiden
Darius Gaiden
Gradius III
Strikers 1942
...and this one other one in the arcade, I think was called Twin Eagles 2. You flew in a chopper and could do stuff like spin moves as you shoot. That game rocked.

NES Oldskooler Mar 12, 2006 10:16 PM

I've seen that Ikaruga video before, but I just noticed something. Early on in the video, when one of the ships is being blasted by the huge laser, it presses him up against the wall, but he doesn't die.

Now that I look closer, yeah, at around 0:46, he takes his hand off the 2P controller, leaving his ship being blasted by the laser. He should have died there.


Anyways, I might have missed something in this thread, but how could no one have mentioned Gigawing or Mars Matrix. I've only played them through MAME, but they're both tons of fun.

Gigawing was pretty interesting with the four different ships, and how the level progression changes depending on the ship you choose. Also, the reflecting shield was an awesome game mechanic in single player, but became pretty broken in two player, since each player could shield the other.

Mars Matrix, on the other hand, was one hell of a hard game (at least to me). Very cool how you had 3 different shots all available from one button (tapping quickly, tap every 2 seconds or so, and hold down).

I usually suck at shoot 'em ups, but I really love them. For a genre that changes so little with every game, I have a lot more fun playing them than most other games.

MrMonkeyMan Mar 12, 2006 10:25 PM

You don't die from running into the edge of the screen in Ikaruga. Give it a try.

And Mars Matrix is great, but the arcade version isn't even playable as far as I'm concerned. One button for three attacks is a horrible idea. Get yourself a copy of the Dreamcast version for a much better experience. Plus, you can't max out the score in the Dreamcast version either (not that it's easy to max out the arcade version or anything).

Darkcomet72 Mar 12, 2006 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NES Oldskooler
I've seen that Ikaruga video before, but I just noticed something. Early on in the video, when one of the ships is being blasted by the huge laser, it presses him up against the wall, but he doesn't die.

You can't die by touching the farthest wall. Try it. At the start of stage 3, move straight left or right into the wall. You won't die.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKO
Yeah, lately I've been playing these two games on the PC called BlueWish and GreenWind (Link). The screens are a bit small but the games are good; I like BlueWish the best.

Yeah, those games are great. Mostly Cave clones, but always a good thing.

OKAY TIME TO TALK ABOUT MY FAVORITE PC SHMUP OF ALL TIME:

Galax

http://www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/masaHG/title0.gif

Galax is a fantastic shooter with a very unique gameplay, and level design that compliments the gameplay perfect, for the most part. The game has 6 levels with some very dynamic level design, all unique situations that will require clever planning if you are to score for points.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Controls(From Caiman free games site):

- From inside game
Arrow Keys = Movement (Game Pad)
C = Radar use/cancellation (A button)
X = Bomb selected object and Attack (Dual functions)(B Button)
Z = Shoot (C Button)
Esc = Pause/START button
F12 = Screen shot
Game pad users: the keys for game pad/joystick are redefinable.

- From inside menu
Arrow Keys = Item selection
Z = Activaste selction
Esc = Start

Using the bomb (keyboard keys)
While holding down the C key, push the X key then release both keys.
Selected targets will be hit if executed correctly.
------------------------------------------------------------------
First off, and this is likely to turn off many: You have a life bar AND lives. Now, you have a normal weapon which shoots a twin shot and two side shots that slightly home in on the enemy within the proximity. In short, it's basic.

http://www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/masaHG/title3.gif

But that's nothing compared to your secondary mechanic: A Lock-on device. Pressing the lock on button (C) activates a grid, it's dimensions the width of the ship to the top of the screen. If you hold it out for 2 seconds, it will literally expand to cover the whole screen. This allows you to lock on to enemies in order to do stuff with them.

http://www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/masaHG/st50.gif http://www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/masaHG/st20.gif
Lock on device -------------------------------- Fully Expanded lock on screen

If you have enemies locked on for a while, their health (in numeric value) will be shown right above them.

If you let go of the (C) and you have enemies locked on, you will then stop moving. You have a short limited time to insert a command:

If you press (Z)-(X)-(C), then all enemies will be on freeze mode, and will stop all action. Frozen enemies will be indicated with a yellow crosshair. Any bullet touching a Frozen enemy will give you 10 points.

If you press (Z)-(Z)-(X)-(C), then all enemies will be on crush mode. Any enemy in this mode (large even!) will be marked with a purple crosshair, and once the diamond within it makes a full rotation, that enemy is destroyed! This does not work for all enemies, however.

Now comes the fun stuff:

If you press (up)-(down)-(Z)-(X)-(C), then all enemies will be on capture mode. Any enemies in this mode will BECOME YOUR ALLIES FOR A LIMITED TIME! A blue crosshair is the marker. Mines that home in on you suddenly home in on the other (non captured) enemies. Enemies that shoot toward you will shoot the enemy with blue bullets (the ally color). This is where the gameplay really opens up.


If you were to play just for beating it, you might as well freeze and crush everything to death, but that's no fun. If you want to play for points, you will NEED to us crush FAR LESS OFTEN. Freeze can give you a nice source of points, and Capture; well, any enemy bullet that hits an ally or any ally bullet that hits an enemy is worth 100 points. If a LARGE enemy is destroyed by allies, a TECHNICAL BONUS of 5000 points is rewarded. Finding out the methods of getting the Technical bonuses aren't hard, but pulling them off are certainly rewarding. The ultimate target is 1 million points ALL CLEAR.

Level design uses different situations that you will have to adapt to. For instance:

http://www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/masaHG/st33.gif

If you were on the RIGHT side of the screen at this point, you would have to freeze the middle section to open it up. Some of the later bosses have EXTREMELY COMPLICATED attack patterns, making them difficult to defeat.

The man responsible for this game, MasaHG, also did the music, which I think is great. It has a very heroic retro feel that suits the game perfectly.

The game can be downloaded here:
http://www003.upp.so-net.ne.jp/masaHG/glxmain.htm
the very last link before the break. It's a ZIP file, use WinRAR or WinZIP to open.

Once you unloaded all the files, go download the updated music here:
http://www.caimen.us/ZZZ/oggalax%20resampled.zip
It will come with a new music folder (Replace the old folder with the new one)
and a new EXE file to play the new music (replace this one with the original game). The music is just resampled OggVorbis with higher quality than the original General Midi files.

Have fun!

Elixir Mar 12, 2006 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NES Oldskooler
I've seen that Ikaruga video before, but I just noticed something. Early on in the video, when one of the ships is being blasted by the huge laser, it presses him up against the wall, but he doesn't die.

You might be getting confused with chapter 3 of Shikigami no Shiro II. The walls in Shikigami will kill you, but not in Ikaruga.

NES Oldskooler Mar 13, 2006 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMonkeyMan
You don't die from running into the edge of the screen in Ikaruga. Give it a try.

Whoa, you're right. I've always avoided them since I thought they were treated the same way as any wall. I doubt it'll help me out too much, but maybe it'll come in handy at some point. Thanks. Likewise to DarkComet and Elixir. You guys can get a thumbs up as well.

Elixir Mar 13, 2006 04:19 AM

So.

I imported ESP Galuda on the 20th of Feb.

It still hasn't arrived.

Not only does this make me want the game about 800 times more, but it's forcing me to watch MMM's videos over and over which just can't be healthy; until it arives.

I hope I made the right purchase. The only other PS2 shooting game I own is Raiden III, and well, that's pretty dull.

map car man words telling me to do things Mar 13, 2006 04:55 AM

ESPGALUDA is still wonderful.

It's a superbly balanced system that caters to more inexperienced players who use Kakusei to survive and get out of tight spots, and for the experienced, who use Kakusei to rack up massive points multipliers.

Movement in the levels isn't anywhere near as twitchy as in many Cave shooters and because of the pace and the implementation of Kakusei modes, it feels like a graceful dance rather than the typical tap-tap-tap-tap-tap feel of most shooters.

Monkey King Mar 13, 2006 09:49 AM

I've been playing a bunch of shooters on MAME lately. Most recently I've gotten stuck on DoDonPachi. Normally shmups that throw a million billion bullets at you piss me off, since it's usually just a cheap trap to kill you and take your money, but the Pachi games actually feel like it would be possible to survive with enough practice. I dig that there's visible safe paths through (most of) the attack patterns, even if it would require inhuman reflexes to squeeze your ship through there.

I'm cheesy and prefer the blue ship with the spread weapon, but I haven't really decided whether I like the laser or shot configuration better. Going with shot lets me just unconsciously mash the fire button and kill stuff incidentally while I focus on evasion, but the other mode gives me a Big Fucking Laser to melt everything with. I'm wondering if there's any practical reason to pick the red ship, since its weapons really aren't much wider than the laser beam?

I really want to try Radiant Silvergun too, but I can't seem to get MAME to run it. I know it probably won't go at full speed, but after verifying all the ROMs (and yes, I remembered the ST-V bios) it pops up a window briefly and kicks me back out. This makes me sad.

MrMonkeyMan Mar 13, 2006 12:25 PM

The Red ship has speed, and the most powerful shot and laser. Actually all the ships have the same power laser when you choose laser type.

Mainly, the Type-A is useful for playing the game for score. It allows you to accurately kill the enemies so you can keep your chain going for as long as possible. That and it's crazy powerful. And I like fast ships.

evilboris Mar 14, 2006 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkcomet72
I could never get into chaining in RS, because you can only chain 1 color for the majority of the levels, leaving enemies out. Sure, it's unconventional, but I wasn't too fond of it. And the fact that you HAD to score to level up your weapons made it very unforgiving. It's still a fantastic game, with some cool bosses as well.

Concentrating on only one color will leave you utterly hopeless in some situations, the trick comes from finding the best combinations on the level on when to chain reds, when to concentrate on blues, or to abuse the fuck out of the red -> 1 blue -> yellow for 10 000 pts and up combinations, so you can score the biggest amount of points on each level.

and Megalith Beast, you should read up the translated script on that emuxhaven site that someone already linked to in this topic. It clears up quite a lot of the game.

Newbie1234 Mar 14, 2006 11:26 AM

I really liked Ikaruga and Gradius Gaiden.

Fluffykitten McGrundlepuss Mar 14, 2006 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalith Beast
Xenon 2 (megadrive) - This one is probably below average I think! First of all, it featured one pretty lame music track that repeated over and over, which was incredibly annoying. Secondly, the rate at which you fire is just, horribly slow, you end up missing half the enemys. It was just a pretty dull game! But...there were some cool powerups, you could get bullets and lasers firing everywhere!

You're an idiot.

Sorry, but you are.

Fair enough the Megadrive version of Xenon 2 was pretty wanky. It was a poor copy of the awesome Amiga version which was one of the finest scrolling shooters ever made. The "Lame music track" was called Metablast by Bomb the Bass and was possibly the first piece of computer game music produced by "serious" musicians and represented a huge leap forward in the mainstream acceptability of computer games. Also, it's an incredible tune.

The game itself borrowed from R-Type and so on but was graphically very impressive on it's first release and never suffered from any slow down. It's a seminal piece of gaming history and you're an idiot.

Other scrolling shooters I've enjoyed over the years were Apogee's "Raptor, Call of the Shadows" which while a little repetitive after a while was certainly frantic enough to keep you interested.

SWIV was another awesome Amiga game, especially two player (Sucked to be the jeep though).

Anyone who owned an Acorn Archimedes computer will surely agree that Nevryon was one of the finest games ever made for any computer.

More recently, Alien Hominid is the only scrolling shooter worth playing on modern consoles but it is fucking awesome. ^_^

Darkcomet72 Mar 14, 2006 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin

More recently, Alien Hominid is the only scrolling shooter worth playing on modern consoles but it is fucking awesome. ^_^

I thought Alien Hominid was kinda dull, actually. It wasn't boring (some of the bosses were awesome), but it felt too loose. And the normal enemies point blanking you from straight behind is never fun, just cheap. The final boss just flat out sucked, because it completely immobolizes your freedom (the machine just before it was fantastic, though)

Gradius Gaiden is a WINNER of a game, though. One of the best Horizontal scrolling shooters period. IMO even better than Gradius V (though that one is fantastic as well)

Cue MrMonkeyMan with a long, dull, and boring rant on how long, dull, and boring Gradius V is.

Fluffykitten McGrundlepuss Mar 14, 2006 04:12 PM

I guess I just get bored with normal scrolling games. AH had a sense of humour about it which keeps it interesting, I found. Also, it's super fun with two players.

Dizzy Mar 14, 2006 06:13 PM

U.N. Squadron (Area 88)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...squadron-2.jpghttp://www.playright.dk/screens/unsquadron_snes_05.png

Nice graphics, cool soundtrack, pretty though (the "gamer" difficulty was hell) and a lot of customizable airplaines. Finally a shooting game where beating enemies has some utility (gives you money to buy and upgrade your airplane).

Elixir Mar 14, 2006 11:45 PM

Oh god, Alien Hominid is terrible.

I mean, worst-games-of-all-time terrible. It's a flash game, and somehow it's on PS2 and xbox now. It's all to promote some artist. I bought this and returned it the next day.

It would be better if the bullets were slower(say, Metal Slug speed) and you didn't go through 20 odd credits per level. I really didn't find that game to be positive in any shape or form.

And much like Metal Slug, it isn't considered a horizontal shooter. But oh well.

Megalith Beast Mar 16, 2006 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin
You're an idiot.

Sorry, but you are.

Fair enough the Megadrive version of Xenon 2 was pretty wanky. It was a poor copy of the awesome Amiga version which was one of the finest scrolling shooters ever made. The "Lame music track" was called Metablast by Bomb the Bass and was possibly the first piece of computer game music produced by "serious" musicians and represented a huge leap forward in the mainstream acceptability of computer games. Also, it's an incredible tune.

The game itself borrowed from R-Type and so on but was graphically very impressive on it's first release and never suffered from any slow down. It's a seminal piece of gaming history and you're an idiot.

Other scrolling shooters I've enjoyed over the years were Apogee's "Raptor, Call of the Shadows" which while a little repetitive after a while was certainly frantic enough to keep you interested.

SWIV was another awesome Amiga game, especially two player (Sucked to be the jeep though).

Anyone who owned an Acorn Archimedes computer will surely agree that Nevryon was one of the finest games ever made for any computer.

More recently, Alien Hominid is the only scrolling shooter worth playing on modern consoles but it is fucking awesome. ^_^

I know that track was supposed to be something special, but I just thought it sucked. I'm entitled to an opinion right?

Oh and I did use to have an Acorn Archimedes! And I did use to have Nevryon, and you're right, its utterly brilliant! I've been recently trying to get it to work on an archimedes emulator, without any success (I still own the original disc!). Oh, and Nevryon had WAY better music than Xenon 2 and that wasn't composed by a 'serious' musician :) .


Quote:

Originally Posted by evilboris
and Megalith Beast, you should read up the translated script on that emuxhaven site that someone already linked to in this topic. It clears up quite a lot of the game.

Yeah I had a look at it, it was very interesting! It's really nice when these kinds of games have a deep and intrigueing plot. It adds a nice depth to the game which I think makes it far more satisfying to play since there is more purpose.

map car man words telling me to do things Mar 19, 2006 07:28 AM

http://myy.helia.fi/~a0400729/Pics/ibarakuro_poster.jpg

Looks like the Raizing style Cave games continue as both Ibara Kuro: Black Label (above) and Pink Sweets: Ibara Sorekara (below) are on their way and looking sexy.

http://personal.auna.com/crsanest/misc/pink_01.jpghttp://personal.auna.com/crsanest/misc/pink_02.jpg
http://personal.auna.com/crsanest/misc/pink_03.jpghttp://personal.auna.com/crsanest/misc/pink_04.jpg
http://personal.auna.com/crsanest/misc/pink_05.jpghttp://personal.auna.com/crsanest/misc/pink_06.jpg

The Pink Sweets poster looks a bit disturbing though :tpg:

http://myy.helia.fi/~a0400729/Pics/pink.jpg

SenorKaffee Mar 19, 2006 12:34 PM

Do shooters-on-rails also count? Then the Panzer Dragoon series is missing here. ^^

Overkill Mar 20, 2006 09:17 PM

Recently I've been playing the Super Famicom ROM of Parodius. It is weird beyond words! That said, whoever drew the pixel art for this game was clearly very talented, and it poses way more challenge than other Gradius-style shooters, if only because there's a lot of distractingly bizarre things coming at you, along with equally strange music and sound effects.

Screencap of the moment:
http://ovk.actionsketch.com/stuff/parodius.png

Darkcomet72 Mar 20, 2006 09:28 PM

Parodius is very awesome, the only MAJOR gripe I have are the pickups that start a roulette on the bar. I usually lose everything, then die, then instant game over.

Black Ninja Mar 21, 2006 08:53 AM

I don't know if anyone mentioned Super R-Type, but damn that game was something else. I got it for Christmas of 91 and didn't beat it until I had it on an emulator at around 00. That game was just plain HARD.

And Thunder Force IV. Hard, but I still loved it.

And I enjoyed the soundtracks to both.

kuttlas Mar 21, 2006 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elixir
Oh god, Alien Hominid is terrible.

I mean, worst-games-of-all-time terrible. It's a flash game, and somehow it's on PS2 and xbox now. It's all to promote some artist. I bought this and returned it the next day.

It would be better if the bullets were slower(say, Metal Slug speed) and you didn't go through 20 odd credits per level. I really didn't find that game to be positive in any shape or form.

And much like Metal Slug, it isn't considered a horizontal shooter. But oh well.

I don't get it, you don't like AH because it's hard? That's usually what people look for in a shooter, challenge. I thought it was slightly easy myself, like Contra Jr.

Elixir Mar 27, 2006 07:57 PM

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6531/dscf00041zc.jpg

What's up guys. ESP Galuda on the right. This has to be, by far, the best shooting game ever created. I thought Ikaruga was good. I thought Mushihime was good. Hell, I thought Radilgy was good. But no, here's Galuda, topping them all.

So far I've managed to get up to stage 4, but I really need to work on that. Getting the first extend on the first level like MrMonkeyMan did is amazing, except for the fact that I can't do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuttlas
I don't get it, you don't like AH because it's hard? That's usually what people look for in a shooter, challenge. I thought it was slightly easy myself, like Contra Jr.

Hard as in, unfair. Raiden III is unfair. Mars Matrix is unfair. Giga Wing 2 is unfair. However I wouldn't mix Alien Hominid with those, as it's a flash game ported to consoles(probably to promote the artist and his work).

I just found it all a bit fast. Then again, I'm the type of person who doesn't like using more than a single credit on his games. Bullets in Alien Hominid were quite fast, in comparison to what they are in Metal Slug. Metal Slug is hard(varies on edition) but not Alien Hominid-hard. The game didn't have a level select or anything, even.

ROBOTRON Mar 28, 2006 07:13 PM

Oops, I swear I did not see this thread. Sorry.
______________________

"Under Defeat" was just released for import DC some days ago and it kicks booty, great sound/graphics for you shoot em' up fans out there.

A helicopter shooter.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/455/pa543240090wb.jpghttp://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8155/pa543240062mo.jpg

Check it out if you have the means, its worth a shot.:biggrin:
__________________

My fav shooters list:

Zanac - NES
Gradius 5 - PS2
R-Type Delta - PS1
Blazing Lazers - TG-16
Soukugerentai - Saturn
Radiant Silvergun - Saturn
Dead Moon - TG-16
Viewpoint - Neo-Geo
Last Resort - Neo-Geo
Alpha Mission II - Neo-Geo
R-Type Final - PS2
Gates of Thunder - Turbo CD
Thunderforce Series - Genesis
Thunderforce 5 - Saturn
Chaos Field - Dreamcast
Asteroids - PS1
Layer Section - Saturn
The Guardian Legend - NES
Space Megaforce - SNES
Zanac Neo - PS1
Psychosis - TG16
Galaga 90 - TG16
Border Down - DC

Elixir Mar 28, 2006 07:17 PM

I was thinking of, uh, downloading this.

Most Dreamcast shooters(I mean, all) I have already. Some have been a real depressing experience(Trizeal, Chaos Field) but others have been absolutely amazing(Shikigami, Ikaruga). Is Under Defeat like Zero Gunner 2 with the free range of motion which you have with your ship?

Dragon God Mar 30, 2006 12:32 AM

Don't download UD. G.Rev deserves your shineys. They're doing really well with UD since it recently sold over 10000 copies since it was released last week ! More purchases could mean an eventual move to have them release their games over here.

Magic Mar 30, 2006 01:32 AM

Y'know, considering how easy it is to pirate Dreamcast games I think the company would benefit from allowing people to just purchase an ISO from their website or just stick a Paypal button on there. That way the people who really care can show their support without having to import a game for a dead system.

Mucknuggle Apr 23, 2006 10:50 AM

I like how I suck at Gradius V. How do I get past boss #2 without dying? Are there videos that I can watch to help me learn?

speculative Apr 23, 2006 11:14 AM

Einhander has to be my favorite. The soundtrack is sublime. The graphics, including machine/enemy design, are interesting and creative yet realistic in a way as well.

I'm fond of Sky Shark because it's the one we played in grade school the most, by far.

Darkcomet72 Apr 23, 2006 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mucknuggle
I like how I suck at Gradius V. How do I get past boss #2 without dying? Are there videos that I can watch to help me learn?

I'm assuming you haven't beaten the game, even with credits, yet, so you don't have the weapon edit which has a few more weapons. Quite a few videos use this, so they might not be of use. What option formation are you using?

If you want to see videos anyway, check out this hueg selection. Check the descriptions to see what type is being used.

I still have yet to beat this with one credit :(

Lizardcommando Apr 23, 2006 02:22 PM

I'm suprised no one has mentioned Tyrian. Now that was an awesome horizontal scrolling shooter!

Are we just limited to these kinds of games or can we talk about games like Metal Slug or Contra?

PKO May 10, 2006 06:11 PM

Heh, a Chinese site recently put out the ROM of Judgement Silversword Rebirth Edition for the Wonderswan so I've been playing that for the past few days. I love it; if anyone doesn't feel like searching for it, just IM and I'll be happy to send it (~300kb zipped). Just FYI.

Kesubei May 10, 2006 09:39 PM

I've been playing Pink Sweets, the sequel to Ibara by Cave, alot lately. Awesome game!

NoMaD May 19, 2006 05:52 AM

Man, I can't believe the general consensus is that ESP Ra.De is one of the easier Cave games! I mean, I can get up to Stage 5 on one credit in DoDonPachi (if I try real hard) but ESP slams me on Stage 2/3 :/

Does anyone else think this? Maybe I'm trying too hard to score properly...

map car man words telling me to do things May 19, 2006 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMaD
Man, I can't believe the general consensus is that ESP Ra.De is one of the easier Cave games! I mean, I can get up to Stage 5 on one credit in DoDonPachi (if I try real hard) but ESP slams me on Stage 2/3 :/

Does anyone else think this? Maybe I'm trying too hard to score properly...

Eh, I've always thought the general opinion of Ra.De is that it's shit hard and the scoring system makes no sense whatsoever.
You might be confusing it with ESPGALUDA, which is considered much more approachable and I'd agree.

NoMaD May 19, 2006 08:51 AM

Gah, I probably confused the two somehow, though I've yet to play Galuda to compare :(

Goubot May 23, 2006 08:03 AM

Anyone heard of Guwange? It's an Arcade shooter where you can use a guardian spirit to help shoot things for you. I'm really terrrible at it, but I play it anyway because it's really stylish.

Syndrome May 23, 2006 08:59 AM

I want to strike a blow for Gradius V for PS2.

http://www.videogamecritic.net/images/ps2/gradius_v.jpg

Lovely grahpics, fun gameplay and configurable possibilites among your weaponry! It's kind of hard, and it includes lot of dodging as well as shooting, which I like.

Ramenbetsu May 23, 2006 09:51 AM

I beat Raiden 3 for pc couple weeks ago. I LOVE Raiden and while it isnt AS challenging as some shmups, It was the first series i played so it has a special place in my hear.
Here is one of the MANY wallpapers that came with the game:
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9173/owned5cf.th.jpg

Elixir May 28, 2006 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoWittyComment
I've been playing Pink Sweets, the sequel to Ibara by Cave, alot lately. Awesome game!

Does it have miniscule bullets like Ibara has?

MrMonkeyMan May 28, 2006 10:21 AM

Pink Sweets is nothing like Ibara at all. It looks more like some kind of strange Takumi/Cave/Raizing hybrid if such a thing can exist.

electric_eye May 28, 2006 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megalith Beast
Ok so side scrolling shooters have been around since the dawn of gaming (starting with Space Invaders!) and they've come a long long way! But what's happening to them now? Are they starting to die out or are they still going strong? Europe certainly doesn't seem very interested in them anymore. If I'm right, there are still scrolling shooters being developed by 'Cave' in japan, and maybe some other companies.

Does Space Invaders actually count as a side scrolling shooting game?

The only ones that I have played are Life Force for the NES and Super R-Type for the SNES. Both great although these games tend to suffer slowdown. Only managed to finish Super R-Type on easy, don't think I ever completed Life Force, even on two player. Anyone played Life Force?

Elixir May 28, 2006 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMonkeyMan
Pink Sweets is nothing like Ibara at all. It looks more like some kind of strange Takumi/Cave/Raizing hybrid if such a thing can exist.

Is it coming out for PS2? I saw a video of somebody entering Hey! arcade in japan, where Ibara and Pink Sweets were, but I don't know how old that video was. Since most games from CAVE appear on the PS2 (aside from the smaller titles like Uo Poko and Mushihime-tama)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwarky
Eh, I've always thought the general opinion of Ra.De is that it's shit hard and the scoring system makes no sense whatsoever.

Killing enemies as soon as they appear is a "scoring system which makes no sense whatsoever"? Ra.De isn't even that hard, I just have trouble dodging tight gaps since the hitbox is larger than the one in Galuda.

NoMaD Jun 2, 2006 04:54 AM

I thought the scoring system was something to do with the B shot? The maximum number of B shots (15 possible) + 1 regular shot on an enemy that produces the x16 bonus?

map car man words telling me to do things Jun 2, 2006 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elixir
Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwarky
Eh, I've always thought the general opinion of Ra.De is that it's shit hard and the scoring system makes no sense whatsoever.

Killing enemies as soon as they appear is a "scoring system which makes no sense whatsoever"? Ra.De isn't even that hard, I just have trouble dodging tight gaps since the hitbox is larger than the one in Galuda.

I don't think you quite understand how the system works.
I was referring to the jumble of levelling up to L4, then collecting bonus tokens up to 200, then having them decrease till you restart collecting to a higher count.
Not to mention how the multiplier system requires the use of the secondary shot and then shooting enemies with a normal shot before the bubbles disappear.

I'm not even sure if there's more to it, MrMonkeyMan can probably explain it better.

I didn't find the hitbox any bigger, it's simply on the charater's head as opposed to on the back like in Galuda.

Elixir Jun 2, 2006 06:42 AM

In order to get 16x, you have to kill enemies quickly. That's it. The faster you kill enemies, the more enemies you can kill at 16x.

Tapping your main shot, along with your flamethrower shot, and shrouding yourself with your aura really isn't that difficult. I just use a turbo Saturn controller so it automatically does this, and all I need to do is hold A and B.

The P's are your standard stereo-typical powerup icons. Once you reach 200 it counts down, but I have no clue as to why. You don't lose power, that's for sure.

map car man words telling me to do things Jun 2, 2006 07:11 AM

This is why I said you don't seem to know how the system works. The multiplier doesn't work like in Donpachi or DoDonpachi.

To up the multiplier you first need to hit enemies with the secondary shot and then destroy enemies with the normal shot while the secondary shot's "bubbles" are still up in the air. This is why super play video players destroy bosses with such strange and careful timing.

Once you reach power level 4 the 200 counter decreases. After which collecting again will get it up to 300, then 400, and so on.

Elixir Jun 2, 2006 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwarky
This is why I said you don't seem to know how the system works. The multiplier doesn't work like in Donpachi or DoDonpachi.

Dodonpachi doesn't rely on killing enemies fast. It relies on killing enemies at a certain time so you can chain together a combo and continue to do so throughout the level.

map car man words telling me to do things Jun 2, 2006 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elixir
Dodonpachi doesn't rely on killing enemies fast. It relies on killing enemies at a certain time so you can chain together a combo and continue to do so throughout the level.

Of course it relies on killing them fast, what the hell are you talking about? =/

After you shoot an enemy, you have a very brief moment of time to shoot another enemy to continue the chain and up your multiplier, you can see the gauge in the upper corner.

Just because you need to take care of in which order to shoot the enemies so as not to break the chain, doesn't mean you're not "killing them fast".

Similarly, of course ESP Ra.De's multiplier system requires you to kill enemies fast, but because of the necessary use of the secondary shot to initiate the multiplier in the first place, that's not all there is to it, and it's an entirely different system.

Elixir Jun 2, 2006 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwarky
Of course it relies on killing them fast, what the hell are you talking about? =/

No it doesn't, it relies on tapping the shot button and timing. And for the bigger bosses - laser to continue the chain.

Quote:

Just because you need to take care of in which order to shoot the enemies so as not to break the chain, doesn't mean you're not "killing them fast".
It isn't really necessary which order you kill them in, unless you're in a tight position where you're 1) critical of score and 2) only increasing your combo by the enemies which appear on-sight, which is caused by killing them too fast.

Quote:

Similarly, of course ESP Ra.De's multiplier system requires you to kill enemies fast, but because of the necessary use of the secondary shot to initiate the multiplier in the first place, that's not all there is to it, and it's an entirely different system.
Like I said, tapping A and B does wonders. Though on a turbo controller, it's much more difficult, as you can't hold down A (since it's rapid) and "focus" when it becomes danmaku.

Annnnnnnnyway, I've been playing Galuda for a couple of hours. I haven't figured out how you obtain that extra life in the third (?) level with the giant ship. It reminds me a lot of the ship in Dodonpachi, which requires you to take out every sector without bombing or dying in order for the bomb to be under the hatch.

So far I'm doing pretty good. It's a shame that the superplay in the game is of tateha, and the only superplay of ageha is on the special dvd. Either way, it's actually possible to get up to level 5 and onwards which is encouraging. Hopefully I'll figure out the level 4 boss' second sequence (where there's these flat turrets planted each side of the rail-way tracks, that you can kill, and which totally throw me off as to whether I'm meant to kill them or not).

I have actually been pinting a bit of Raiden 3 as well. I can't stand the game, and I think mixing orange bullets with orange explosions is the dumbest thing in the world, and having to recollect your powerups at the right color (which essentially makes you die all over again) is pretty annoying, but I dunno, Raiden 3 is a love-hate game.

I guess you could say all shooting games are a love-hate thing.

Sir VG Jun 2, 2006 08:14 AM

Quote:

Does Space Invaders actually count as a side scrolling shooting game?
It's hard to count it when it doesn't scroll. Somebody stuck Asteroids in there and that doesn't count either.

Two of my favorite scrolling shooters?

Phalanx (SNES)
Philosoma (PS1). Although Philosoma actually has some alternate camera angles, including in front and behind, as well as underneath! It also has a decent storyline and nice graphics for an early PS1 release.

Both of these games are really fricken hard. Good luck beating them w/o any codes.

map car man words telling me to do things Jun 2, 2006 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elixir
It isn't really necessary which order you kill them in

Are you listening to yourself? Of course it's necessary to kill them in the right order if you want to keep up the chain. If you shoot the wrong enemy before you were supposed to, there'll be a break in enemy pattern and you'll lose the chain.

That's like saying killing order is irrelevant in Ikaruga. Sure you can improvise every now and then, but to keep a chain up, you need to follow an order.


And either way this doesn't even matter since the ESP Ra.De scoring system is not merely about killing enemies fast like you claimed.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir VG
It's hard to count it when it doesn't scroll.

I don't know why anyone would count Space Invaders as a side scrolling shooter, but a vertical one is a bit different.
Warning Forever and rRootage are considered vertical shooters, even though the ships don't actually scroll upwards (even though the backgrounds do). In that sense Space Invaders would be one too cause of the viewpoint and mechanics. Change the graphics a little and add a scrolling 3D background and people would think it's a pastiche inside a vert shmup =P

MrMonkeyMan Jun 2, 2006 08:35 AM

You're both right about ESPRaDe's scoring system. You use the secondary shot to get those bubbles on the enemy, then you use your regular shot to destroy it to start your multiplier. Killing enemies and collecting those point bricks will add time back to your multiplier's timer, so killing lots of stuff quickly after getting a multiplier can keep it alive for longer.

There's also that god awful boss milking, but I'm not gonna bother with that one.

Elixir Jun 2, 2006 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwarky
Are you listening to yourself? Of course it's necessary to kill them in the right order if you want to keep up the chain. If you shoot the wrong enemy before you were supposed to, there'll be a break in enemy pattern and you'll lose the chain.

Take the first part of Daioujou for example. You can kill any of the tanks multiple ways - laser left to right, chip off the rest with shot, or you can chip them all, laser them all, whathaveyou. Like I said, unless you're in a desperate situation where you NEED to kill the next deserving enemy which will appear on the screen next in order to continue your chain, when there's multiple enemies on the screen nobody really cares enough to "destroy them in a certain order."

If you have to kill certain enemies at certain times to earn certain bonuses, shooting games aren't shooting games then. They're gimmicks, where you basically need to premeditate everything and that's no fun at all. It's about blowing shit up, there is no "right" way to play shmups.

Quote:

That's like saying killing order is irrelevant in Ikaruga. Sure you can improvise every now and then, but to keep a chain up, you need to follow an order.
Killing order is irrelevant in Ikaruga if you aren't playing for score or chain. People, you know, just play games sometimes? I can chain up to the 4224 guys in chapter 1, but anything past that and I'm done. While Ikaruga is a great game, and I do enjoy playing it in a non-serious manner, I don't think I could really get myself into it.

Quote:

And either way this doesn't even matter since the ESP Ra.De scoring system is not merely about killing enemies fast like you claimed.
It is if you use A and B together like I said. Remember what I told you - normal shot tapping and flamethrower tapping at the same time. Then just aura yourself when you're in danger, temporarily if you're just in a tight spot or hold the bomb button down if you want to absorb stuff.

value tart Jun 4, 2006 01:12 AM

Anyone heard of this game?

Phantasmagoria of Flower View

Created by ZUN, this is a sort of versus shmup, with you against a computer-controlled player. You have to kill the little fairies to gather magic points, then fire MASSIVE BLASTS OF HOLY SHIT at the other guy. Or at least, that's what gets fired at me, I never get a chance to look at the other screen.

Like so:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/09...s/d9d42228.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/09...s/f8bb6462.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/09...s/67627211.jpg

And that's on NORMAL. Also, I like the term for loser.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/09...s/7993666b.jpg

DEAD PARROT. >=(

I have a .rar file of this that I'm willing to share (That is, assuming this isn't warez, because the place I got it from gave me the impression it was freeware.) It's entirely in Japanese, so I'm not entirely sure what exactly all the stats and stuff mean when choosing a character. I just kinda started playing, and I thought it was nifty and that I'd share. :)

Elixir Jun 4, 2006 02:27 AM

If you have the 504 mb .rar of this, then yeah, it's warez, since sites have the game for purchase. If you just have the demo (which is available on ZUN's site) then that's fine.

The touhou shooters aren't freeware, but actual games. Imperishable Night and Flower View are very fun. The only one touhou game I don't like is Shoot the Bullet, which doesn't really feel like a shooting game. I wish there were more danmaku shooters like these available. All I ever see is 2D/3D hybrids like rRootage and the like.

map car man words telling me to do things Jun 4, 2006 07:35 AM

Since my Japanese is very limited, I'm guessing Phantasmagoria of Flower View mixes characters from previous Touho games, right? The girl on the right in the first pic is from Imperishable Night, so I was curious whether there's a story to the game that explains it or if they just use characters in a megamix style.

Looks a lot like Twinkle Star Sprites actually, only less Puyo Pop style and more hardcore shmup dodging.

Elixir Jun 4, 2006 08:38 AM

There is a story, but the dialogue is all in japanese. The dialogue resembles Shikigami no Shiro II's story theme.

And yeah, the girl on the right (Reimu) is from Imperishable Night. Most of the characters seem recycled for whatever reason.

value tart Jun 4, 2006 02:01 PM

Yes. HARDCORE shmup dodging. Oh god it's so hard. :(

Djinova Jun 13, 2006 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwarky
Since my Japanese is very limited, I'm guessing Phantasmagoria of Flower View mixes characters from previous Touho games, right? The girl on the right in the first pic is from Imperishable Night, so I was curious whether there's a story to the game that explains it or if they just use characters in a megamix style.

Looks a lot like Twinkle Star Sprites actually, only less Puyo Pop style and more hardcore shmup dodging.

haha, my field. The story is about a "flower incident". It's spring but the flowers are booming too strongly, and even flowers that aren't supposed to bloom in spring do so fervently, which is abnormal. Therefore the available characters go and investigate this strange blooming. Therefore you see different flower fields as fighting background.

You have to go to 9 levels, and in the 8th and 9th level you will always fight the same persons, as it reveals the cause for this strange blooming. ZUN must be a great buddism fan, as there quite a few references in this game.


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