China makes capital punishment a breeze
 

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"Next stop, Texas!"


This is certainly a frightening thought. Such things should not be made so efficient for a reason.
(p.s. this is not a spoof)

Cheap and quick makes far more sense than waiting this shit out for years and years and making it cost a shit tonne of money.

Pfft this has been going on for years in alot of the Middle Eastern Countries, if you are caught stealing they can easily take a finger or two, or even your whole hand. Plus you can be executed for alot less than you would think.

The most ironic thing though is that they say they are doing this to step up their promotion of human rights.

I don't know Fyodor. Which would YOU rather as a human being. A firing squad or a lethal injection?

I personally would rather not leave my life in the hands of the Chinese government.
The real irony is in who is implementing this, rather than what is being implemented itself.

Although, if I had no choice, I am not sure which I would prefer more. The first option enables me to at least experience something I have never had before, and gives me a great deal of stimulation before death.
Also, there is a bit of honor to be had in recieving "a soldier's death."

On the other hand, the injection would be nice, for the obvious reasons.

The idea of mobile death machines that expedite executions with the speediness of a McDonalds drive thru line is VERY VERY VERY disturbing.

I have this weird image of a van driving around with a logo on the side that says in bright flashy letters "McDeath. A quick, clean, relatively painless death. Over 30,000 served."

Mobile Death Bus FTW.

Heheheh that just goes to show China's idea of "human rights". The Chinese government totally creeps me out. That's one country I will NOT be traveling to anytime soon :P I mean, this dude in question was obviously pretty f*cked up, but Im sure they can find reasons to kill you there that are far less serious.

Yes! One step closer to the Futurama suicide booths! They have to be ready by 2008 if Stop 'n Drop is to become America's favorite suicide booth for the next thousand years.

Jack Bauer is so fucked.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. You could even start out where its a small building right by the police department: "The 'End it All' Life Termination Facility".

This is excellent reality TV material.

WHO WILL BE TERMINATED THIS ROUND? WHO GETS IMMUNITY? SURVIVOR. LOL.

Fjordor's post was the stupidest thing I've ever read.

What bothers me more are the organs harvested from the executed. And I'd rather see a comparison of executions in proportion to population. Everyone knows China has the largest population in the world so it does nothing to say they execute 4 times more criminals. They executed 3400 in 2004, with a population of 1.3 billion. Singapore actually has the highest execution rate per capita if you want to put it that way.

Not to say that China isn't exercising a total abuse of judical power with these death sentences (especially when they do it for crimes like tax fraud and small drug offenses) but it's sounding as if they have roving death Dodge Caravans going from village to village, pumping every other citizen in sight with a chemical cocktail of death.

Oh and you can be put to death if you kill a panda.

Can you explain why it is the stupidest thing you have ever read?
Also, would that not be considered trolling?

China is still far behind on the lethal injection. They must give out alcohol-soaked cotton swabs to avoid last-second infection ;\ Humanitarians indeed!

I'm all in favor of efficiency in death penalty-type areas. As the second post said, it cuts out a lot of bullshit and money. That sorta stuff has made the death penalty a costly choice for those of us in the states (as well as many other places).

"Used to be a time where we'd drag ya out back and shoot'cha. But now you've got your damn unions..."
"You know I've never been a union kinda guy, 'Cap!"

Did you even read this post?

Yes. That is not a good explanation of how it is stupid. Need I remind you that Sass asked me about my preferences, and thus the response is purely subjective?

She asked me, as a human being, what I would prefer. Seeing as how having experiences is an integral part of being a human, I felt it would be fitting to say that I might prefer to have a new experience as I die(being shot), rather than just go to sleep. Additionally, honor is also a part of being a human being, and as such I thought it would be valid to point that out as well.

Now is that so stupid that you find it necessary to blatantly troll me?

No shit.

How is this in any way ironic. Please elaborate.

Re-read this to yourself. Please. Aloud. Then tell me you still think it continues to make absolute sense. This is what how I interpreted what you wrote.

I want to get shot so I know what I feels like to be shot because I've never been shot before and then in the end I can be innudated with fervent sensation before I die.

When you get shot, fatally, basically it's lights out. You pray that you don't know what it feels like to be shot and for no stimulation. It's the anticipation that's the worst about a firing squad, not the actual firing.

Firing squads kill soldiers for desertion, spy activity, muder, rape and mutiny. Nazi officers were executed by firing squad. Very honorable.

Do you think they just stick a needle in you and you quietly fall asleep while your heart slowly stops? Basically, one drug in the cocktail freezes your muscles and lungs while another drug forces cardiac arrest which leads to your death. So the you basically lie there, unable to move and barely breathe while potassium chloride burns through your veins, lasting in that state for up to 45 minutes, before it reaches your heart and you experience a heart attack, and die.

I like how you keep on calling me a troll.

Because the Chinese government, in their official attempt to step up recognition of human rights, are making it easier to take a person's life. Their streamlining of a process to take someone's life is somehow promoting human rights?
Additionally, the Chinese government has never in practice shown any real concern for human rights, except when it might potentially benefit itself.

More or less. Why the hell not? At least its something, from what I know.

Ah, so I'm a bit old-fashioned. So sue me. That doesn't validate your claim that I am somehow stupid. References to the Nazi officers doesn't change a thing. Are you familiar with Seppuku? The purpose of it was for the man who had dishonored himself and his family to regain it by willingly enduring the suffering. In such fashion, his honor is partially restored for his brave deed. Granted this is not exactly an identical situation(the execution is being performed on me, as opposed to by me), but it is the purpose of the execution which matters, not who gets it. In like fashion, following more romantic perceptions, someone being killed by the weapons of his opponents in a way gratifies a soldier's need for honor.

Additionally, I was selecting this in the context of the question posed to me, which limited me to two options.

Ah, well I did not know that. I am a bit skeptical about this, but I'll leave it at that. If this is true, then why is lethal injection promoted as "more humane" than any other methods?

I hate to break it to you but all governments LIE. I'm sure a large mitigating factor behind mainstreaming lethal injections is for the booming foreign organ trade, not for any concern of human rights, despite what the offical statement is.

The Chinese government is fucked up, sure but that's hardly irony.

I think you missed my second bit.

You're right, it's a crappy comparison. First of all you have to consider the wildly different cultures they're coming from. Seppuku resolves the criminal and his family from the crime in the eyes of the culture. Firing squad, does not. Seppuku is an honorable concept because you killed yourself before the enemy gets you. A firing squad happens after the enemy captured you and was sometimes considered honorable BECAUSE it USED to be reserved for more esteemed executions (political heads, military etc.). Only because of that context was it even regarded with respect but firing squads have been used in countries for ages to execute common criminals so the esteem has all but gone to nill.

I don't think you can be old-fashioned, unless you're talking about the early 20th century. No one under 90 is that old fashioned. I can see you using the honor principle but it's a ridiculously highly idealized concept at best.

Why don't we add seppuku as a third option, just for you.

I googled "lethal injection pain" and got 987,000 results, including news stories and medical reports. I don't know how you can really be skeptical, especially when something like pain during a chemically induced death is an abstract concept at best.

And lethal injection is considered more humane because they typically sedate the criminal before injecting them but statistics have showed that more than 40% of all executions in the US contain levels of anesthesia so low that they're practically worthless. It's the flaws that make it less humane than it should be. Also it's a lot less sensational in comparison of being hanged or being shot to death, when in actuality, those deaths may actually be quicker.

Ok, so you have made your point that lethal injection is pretty much no less painful or stimulating than a firing squad, and in fact could be more so. Cool.
Nonetheless, I would like to spill some blood if I'm going to get killed.
I suppose that happens to me when I read a lot of 19th century literature.

I rest my case.



Enough with this "quote war," and getting more topical once again, am I then to understand that lethal injections, performed properly, should involve a separate anesthesia? Or is the sodium thiopental considered sufficient(supposed to render people unconscious)?

I didnt know they still did the firing squad method anywhere. I think lethal injection is more humane, but riding around in execution vans is kinda weird.

You do have a very valid point Devo. There definatley needs to be a change in the methods used for rehab, not just widespread executions. We should be killing personalities, not people.

Fjordor, you have a stupidass habit of calling anyone who antagonizes you a troll. If that were true, the entire board would be trolls. It's not anyone else's fault that you're just incredibly lame.

And they don't just use one chemical when administrating a lethal injection. Pancuronium bromide is the anaesthesia part of the combination they use to serve as the overall injection, along with the chemical that knocks you out and the chemical that kills you (potassium chloride)

But again, many prisoners are inadequately sedatedly, so much so that the purposes of the individual chemicals don't even come into effect (except the one that kills you).

I can't recall precisely how this subject originally came to my notice, but there's a lot of evidence to suggest that a lot of the prisoners executed by this method are fully aware during their execution, as Kat said. It was covered pretty widely after the method was first introduced, and there have been several recurrences of that coverage.

Looking around for some bedtime reading for you produces this document, which is a reproduction of an article published in The Lancet. In case you're not familiar with that publication, it's a British peer-reviewed medical journal, and is one of the oldest publications of its kind.

http://www.atypicaljoe.com/archives/...InadAnesth.pdf

To add to what Kat wrote, my understanding is that execution by Lethal Injection is a three-stage process. The first step is to anaesthetise the patient with Sodium Thiapentothol. The next step, administration of Pancuronium Bromide, then induces paralysis of the muscles, including those responsible for breathing. Finally, the Potassium Chloride stops the electrical activity required for cardiac function.

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I'm not biologically inclined, but that information is readily avaialble, and not difficult to understand. What the article from The Lancet has to say is that, as Kat has stated, the dose of Sodium Thiapentothal often inadequate. The standard dosage for execution is based on a quantity sufficient to anaesthetise a 220lb (100kg) man for 10 minutes, under normal conditions. The average time from injection to death is 8.5 minutes, and those to be executed are usually frightened and hyper-adrenal, which makes them resistant to the anesthetic.

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That's all paraphrased from the article, and I can well imagine that having my heart and lungs forcibly stopped while I am awake would be somewhat painful. Consider the feeling when you choke on a piece of food. Now imagine that you never actually managed to clear your airway. I imagine it's many times worse than that.

There's nothing humane about lethal injections the way they are currently done. I think that even a condemned man doesn't deserve that. Cruel and Unusual Punishments are prohibited by the Constitution, are they not?

I come from China, it's creepy there :p. No not really, only if you commit crimes. That's why I don't want to live there.

I think we should bring back public hangings. I promise you it will scare some sense into a least a few of the crazy fuckers running around this place. Damn idgets.

I think living in a country that allows the possession of firearms is much more frightening than living in one that has efficient capital punishment.