Changes in Uematsu's style
 

I guess you know what I mean from the title. I actually want to start discussion. Maybe it's just me, but I feel that Uematsu's composition style has been changed since the last Final Fantasy series he worked as full-time composer, despite Noriko Matsueda and Hamauzu also took part in the composition, yeah, I talk about FF X. I feel that FF X is the last game when Uematsu was at his finest

Or maybe it's because Squaresoft become Square Enix and he left from the company, working as freelancer, and due the fact that he only compose the main themes, not the entire soundtrack (like in FFTA, FFXII)? Perhaps because he doesnt compose much except main themes, is the factor that made me feel his style "changed"? Because we dont have much chances listening to his other compositions?

Tell me what do you think about this.

He's been working on a lot of other stuff lately, he only has just enough time left to compose main themes at the moment. There was what, Blue Dragon, and now Lost Oddysey, and Cry On.

His work in FFXI (albeit there's not much) is awesome. Listen to the airship theme in FFXI, and tell me that doesn't sound right out of FF9.

If you look at a composer breakdown for who did the work in FFTA, Uematsu only did the main theme, and then Sakimoto did most of the tracks, *except* most of the main battle tracks (the most important tracks, right?). These were all done by a few other no-names. Though with their clear talent, hopefully they won't be no names for long. This includes "Battle of Hope" and "Painful Battle", probably the two best songs on the OST.

Those two themes you mention are composed by Ayako Saso. Please, look here and tell me she is still a no-name composer :p In case you don't know, she is Shinji Hosoe's longtime composing partner, since the old Namco days in the late '80s.

For Uematsu's style having changed, I disagree. You still sense his old-school style even in the latest Mistwalker samples offered so far.

I wouldn't say that Uematsu's style has changed per se; one of the things about him (and, indeed, about many VGM composers) is that he is able to cross many genre lines in composition.

No, I'd say that the style is the same, but the quality has decreased, as has the quantity.

Let me elaborate: for the most recent generations of Final Fantasy games (Uematsu's best-known franchise work), he composed anywhere from 2 to 5 discs worth of music. Even taking looping into account, that's a huge volume of work. The best OSTs of the bunch had near-continuous good music, with little or no filler material, while the worst featured excellent highlights counterbalanced with significant filler (in the form of reprises of dull melodies like Oeilvert).

Compare this to Uematsu's recent work on that same series. He wrote roughly a third of FFX and a fourth of FFXI, with single-track-only contributions to FFXII and FFTA. While many of his songs in these lower-volume efforts remains stellar, there are also significant amounts of filler.

So, in my view, Uematsu's work since 2000 has been characterized by 1) fewer tracks composed overall and 2) a higher ratio of poor/boring "filler" to high-quality material. He's still capable of producing stunning music that fits both musically and stylistically with earlier work, but at a much slower pace and with more misfires.

Couldn't disagree more. FFX was Uematsu's lowest hour, with tracks that were nearly worthless (Temple of Djose, Ride the Shoopuf, all of Seymour's themes except for Seymour Battle...) and only a few highlights (To Zanarkand, Silence Before the Storm...). Although his PlayStation Final Fantasy scores had a problem with consistency, it wasn't as evident as in FFX.

FFVI was the last soundtrack of his that I'm able to listen to all the way through. Everything after has filler that I tend to skip.

I really have enjoyed most of his music so far. I don't think that his music has gone downward or even changed in the least. I have a feeling that the merger between Square and Enix has affected him in some way, though. I think that with Uematsu working on the Mistwalker titles, will be a good change (especially since Sakaguchi employed him). I would love to see another FF OST with just Uematsu, but it seems that won't ever happen. However, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and Cry On are titles that I look forward to.

Blue Dragon,Lost Oddysey make a new sense of me.Cry On?What's it?

Btw, anyone knows when they will finally come out? We now that Uematsu is working on these Soundtracks for a very long time now. I would like to hear new "Uematsu-only" soundtracks, because I think it's hard to say that Uematsu's style has changed after FFX, just because you haven't so much stuff by him after FFX to compare it with his older stuff.

But I don't think, he's getting worse. Some of his contributions to FFXI are damn outstanding and I like a lot of his stuff in Hanjuku Hero VS 3D as well. I know there are a lot of NES-ish tracks, but also some great powerful and even epic ones, and I think they are awesome.

But, as I said before, it's hard to say, because there isn't so much "newer" Uematsu-material out there, so I'm looking forward to the Mistwalker-games as well.

Personally I would like to know how much experience he has in arranging and orchestration. I love a lot of his music, but I don't know if that's more due to his orchestrators' effort than his own.

I hate it when people give orchestrators/arrangers all the credit. It's essentially like saying a composer has no talent and does no work but takes all the credit.

Uematsu hardly ever uses an orchestrator since he hardly ever uses an orchestra; that said, he could have used a better one to help match his music to the action in "Advent Children."

Is that what you gleaned from my suggestion? Yikes.

Proof please.

It's not really a question of proof, more a question of semantics. To orchestrate, you need an orchestra.

Well, technically an orchestrator takes either sketches, a piano score, or a midi mockup and writes it out for multiple instruments, usually of an orchestra-size ensemble, sometimes less. I've done orchestration work that involved taking a piano score and writing it out for organ, flute and violin. So no, orchestration isn't just limited to an orchestra. It's just where the word originated.

As far as Uematsu's concerned, I'm pretty certain his usual midi/synth work is a solo gig as far as composition goes. When an orchestra comes into play, like for Liberi Fatili or One Winged Angel, yeah and orchestrator is brought into the mix. But, on Orion's side, they mainly make the piece orchestra-friendly and add color or techniques only an orchestra would do as opposed to midi. Compare the original version of One Winged Angel or FF7's World Map to their orchestrated versions on Reunion Tracks. You'll find that most of the music is already there, but the orchestrator added his/her own little touches to things as well as adding flourishes or sections that made it a through-composed piece as opposed to looping BGM.

This is mainly what I'd like confirmation on: whether what we hear in the game is completely his work.

That's usually what "Composed, Arranged and Produced by" means on an OST's credits yes? Unless you count a synth/audio programmer as having a greater role in what we hear in game :p

Apparantly Uematsu has composed the trailer music to Smash Bros. Brawl, though it hasn't been said whether he is doing more work for the game

But it is said that the games' score with be made up of live orchestra with a latin choir - deja vu the latin part??

(Source - wikipedia (Nobuo Uematsu, SSBros. Brawl))

(Source - http://www.n-sider.com/articleview.p...eid=518&page=4)

I first started to listen to Uematsu at FFVI, and have then been following him for the later FF releases (as well as listened to his earlier stuff.)
I think almost everything up to and including FFIX was excellent (though IX is a bit repetetive, I still think it's a truly wonderful soundtrack).

Like Namakemono I feel that FFX was his absolute lowpoint (though there are a few tracks that I really like).
The stuff he contributed to FFXI is a mixed bag, but overall I like it very much. Especially the "main theme" (the opening track is one of the best ever from a FF soundtrack if you ask me).
I think the FFXII "love song" was awful.

I've only heard two things from Uematsu after that, and both were at the PLAY! Symphony concert at Stockholm. A track from Blue Dragon which wasn't bad, but far from anything special. A bit hard to take it in at an occasion like a live concert though.
On the other hand I absolutely loved the PLAY! Fanfare. Kinda weird at first, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

Looking forward to hearing stuff from him.

She's still a no-name composer :( Even Shinji Hosoe is only escaping no-name status in the last year or so. I wish Saso wasn't a no-name, though. I *love* the Xevious 3D/G soundtrack, and seeing her list gives me some motivation to hunt down the Bushido Blade and Ridge Racer 2 soundtracks and give them a whirl.

There is no major difference in ratio between good/filler tracks in Uematsu's FFX/FFXI work and his older works. The soundtrack to FF6, 7, 8, and 9 are each several discs and feature tons of forgettable themes, along with like 15 or 20 amazing pieces. Which is still an exceptional number of amazing pieces for one game soundtrack (only SaGa Frontier 2 and Wild Arms 2 can replicate that performance for me), and that's what makes Uematsu great.

Sorry for bit Off topic. But isn't Shinji Hosoe the composer of Rockman EXE anime OST?

Not that I'm aware of, he did compose Rockman EXE Network Transmission on GameCube with Ayako Saso and Yousuke Yasui though.

I disagree. There were only about 5 forgettable themes in FF6 compared to more than 50% filler in newer titles. Of course our definitions of filler may differ.

^

What he said. I have been replaying FF7 and while I think parts of it are great (lousy synth excepting), there's still a lot of filler in there. It's stuff that worked fine in the game but on disc, it just drags.

Well like you said, Lolman, it's subjective, but I find plenty of the FF6 soundtrack to drag on disc. I probably have a different definition of filler though; I think 30 songs is the highest amount of songs I've enjoyed on their own from any one soundtrack, and I've only gone past 20 with a few FF's, SaGa Frontier 2, and Wild Arms 2.

And even with those, I doubt I'd have enjoyed that many if I'd listened to the soundtrack without playing the game. The effect of our emotional attachments can't be underestimated in how it affects our enjoyment of the music. I think this is the real reason why many people don't like the OSTs of FF9+ (or 7+ in some cases); people are older and don't have the capacity to attach to games in as deep and innocent a way as we could when we were children.

Well, regards to his ratio of filler tracks to notable pieces, I definitely fall on the side that agrees his work has gotten worse as of late. Of course, I am also a sucker for fast-paced songs where a lot is going on (which is probably why I like his work in FF8 the most, by far). FF 9 and 10 both had more "mellow" pieces in them, most of which I would consider filler.

Couldn't have been said better. Game soundtracks mean almost nothing to me if I haven't heard them in their original contexts (playing the game). I've had nearly all of the FF scores for a very long time, but never listened to them until recently, when I actually started playing the games. Now I can't stop listening to VII and VIII, while I never listen to IX or X (having not played IX or X yet). It's a very interesting psychological effect.

That would be nostalgia. I had a huge thread on it before the crash, but I don't think it's on the GFF archive board.

I'm far from an FF fanboy, but I LIKE FFVII-X, particularly IX and X. I've always thought they were just as good as IV, V, or VI. Fuck nostalgia. But that's just my opinion.

I stopped liking Uematsu once he started composing for FFXI. If people really want to talk about him losing his touch, this is where it really started. He changed his style to orchestral, and his contributions to the soundtrack were crap, and nothing he's produced since, even in FFXII, has been any good.

He produced a lousy pop song in FFXII. That's hardly enough to judge his later works. ;)

His stuff in FFXI was forgettable... but so was the rest of the music so he hardly stood alone.

Agreed...Although I really did like the Airship theme from FFXI.

Uematsu's problem comes when he tries to write too much music. All of the PS1 soundtracks were loaded with filler, which I feel took away from the really great tracks that surfaced on each one. All of them should be 2-3 discs at most. Sort of like FF4, but on a MUCH larger and offensive scale. Compared to FFVI, where each composition felt deliberate and useful. Also, he never quite got a real comfortable sound down with the PS1 entries...The dull synth in FFIX annoys me after listening to maybe 10 tracks in a row (in comparison, I'm not thrilled with FF7's synth, but I don't find it anywhere near as dull and I can listen without having a good number of the tracks blending together). Never sounded quite as rich as his SNES scores to me.

I have to say, I'm actually pleased with the Hanjuku Hero 3D OST. It's not overly long and does have a number of tracks I really lean towards. Overall, I don't consider Uematsu a powerhouse anymore, but I am looking forward to his upcoming works moreso than several well-known composers that have taken over the FF series, some I respect, but rarely listen to (Hamauzu, Nakano) or simply don't want to see more of (Mizuta, Tanioka, Sakimoto). His melodic style clearly gives him an edge in those situations, he almost never disappoints when it comes to battle themes and his last major solo composing project was FFIX six years ago, so I'll be interested to see what he's got.

you forgot the stuff he done for Final Fantasy I, II, III. I could listen the affection of Sugiyama's style in his earlier composition. I havent listened FF XI though, so I couldnt say much.

Edit: :lolsign: My original post was a false statement for I mistaken the composer. Thanks Lolman for correcting me.
On the side note : Reading the above replies of this page reminds me of the topic "Ralationship between the Video Games and the OST itself" was posted a while ago, which the idea of "have to play the game in order to love the music" was not so popular there. I'm happy to see some folks here have the same thought as mine.

Um... Nobuo didn't compose Vana'diel March.

Meh. I suppose. But if so, that's a pretty broad definition of the term, since no real substantial amount of time has passed since completing the game and then listening to its music out of context.

Some people like to go on about how nostalgia blinds people from seeing "the truth" (usually their truth), but it's all BS. People like what they like, and nostalgia is a part of that. Once any event has passed, it's possible to become nostalgic when you're reminded of it later. It's not anything one can measure or prove and thusly not a valid argument towards discrediting an opinion.

So you're saying that nostalgia is the only reason VGM outside of the game is meaningful?

I took that to read "nostalgia coincides with musical tastes...thus, both can have an effect on how one views the music." I'm personally not afraid to use either in the process of enjoying music, though I try to balance the two. For the purposes of this thread, I gravitate towards rock/synth rock/more upbeat tracks, so I tend to favor Uematsu's battle themes above anything else he's done (and while most find "Otherworld" downright offensive, I thought it fleshed out the FFX OST rather nicely). On the same hand, his brand of sappy pop ballads can be attached to a game I actually really like and I'd still hold my neck whenever they came up on my Ipod.

Plus remember that VGM is soundtrack music...It's intended to go with the game. If people listen to it out of context (or even *gasp* buy the music) it's a bonus for the composer.

Uematsu's styles are quite good, imo. I feel that he will rise again because of his departure form Square-Enix. I loved his orchestral Opening Theme in XI, Ronfaure, and the Airship theme by the wau ;). My fav FF OSTs are FFVII, VIII, and IV. He will rise again... it is just a question of when.