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Let's talk about Windows Vista
So yeah I was looking at the new website for vista last week for some reason and it doesn't seem that bad. Some of the ideas are even pretty good even though I'm sure most would say it's just taking stuff that OSX and Linux have been doing for years but hey it's finally arrived for the main market or rather it will sometime in early 2007.
I haven't seen a thread regarding Vista in a while so I wanted to know what everyone's thoughts were and if there were any tidbits and details that anyone could show me. I remember there was some sort of evil copyright system DRM or DMR or something like that that everyone was going nuts over. Anybody here know anything more about that? Anyway, here's the website and wiki for those that are interested. http://www.microsoft.com/Windowsvista/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista Discuss! :) |
I'll have to wait until my next windows computer to run it, since theres no way it'll run on this laptop. It looks neat though. A lot of nifty features that make me want to test it out.
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I heard from friends that it's horrible to play games on. As in, it's mostly a business operating system.
Some games are difficult enough to run even with the most expensive stuff, without an advanced operating system weighing you down. I'd like to see if they fix this in the future (or whether it's worthwhile at all, really.) |
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I'm sure there will be a way, weither official or not, to tweak Windows Vista and turn off all the pretty GUI features while gaming. Infact, they did it for Windows XP. You dont HAVE to use the Fisher Price look, you can switch themes to Windows Classic. I would imagine it will be the same thing for Vista. |
You're probably not going to want to try to run some of the high end graphics games with Vista on a typical current hardware configuration, no, but by the time Vista finally drops, pretty much any computer you build at the time using middle to higher end hardware should not be all that problematic. Think about it, XP doesn't run real well on computers designed with the expectation of running 98. I wouldn't expect a lot of people running out and upgrading their late 2005/early 2006 PCs to Vista as soon as it is released, but people who bought/build their computers back in say 2004 might already be in the market for a new PC by the time Vista is released, and will take this into account when deciding on hardware specs.
But then, if you buy a low end {$400} Dell you aren't going to be satisfied with your performance if you run Vista on it {but would this be a surprise? probably not}. |
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I dunno, it played Unreal Tournament fine (like it takes much to play Unreal Tournament.) Quote:
Vista isn't all that bad. Messing around with Beta 2 has just crushed my baseless complaints, replacing them with complaints that are legitimate. UAC is hilarious for it being super-paranoid. Thankfully Microsoft is reworking that for the next beta/RC release. The performance rating shit is a joke. I rerated my computer today, not expecting much to change, but it actually lowered some of my scores. I expect my rating to go from a 1 to a 0 by the time my Ubuntu 6.06 CD comes in. I know my computer is definitely not the best for Vista, but it's like it's really just pulling numbers out of it's ass. They've made some poor "enabled by default" choices. Once the system is setup, they apparently assume your PC is a Media Center. That's 4 services (yes, 4 for just Media Center capabilities,) that are not really necessary that are on by default. I fully expect a lengthy guide from Black Viper on what services to disable almost immediately. Microsoft could definitely put some work into the other interfaces (non-transparent Aero and Classic,) because they don't really look nearly as nice the transparent Aero interface. For Classic, it's definitely the start menu when it's not in the classic mode. Non-transparent Aero just looks like ass, period. But even the transparent Aero needs work. Mostly like, keeping it transparent when you maximize a window. It's not like it's that muck more work on a computer to keep it transparent. Other than a few things that haven't really popped out at me yet , it's looking pretty good. I wouldn't use it on the computer I have now, but for a future computer, I'd consider it. |
I wrote up a long post of impressions on Beta 2 on another forum I frequent, and because they were so long, I will merely quote them here for you to peruse at your leisure.
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I won't address this much right now, but I'll put in a word or 2. I know this is not a technical review, but these are my views with what I see MS trying TO DO with Vista.
The way I see Vista, I just can't support it. Microsoft is going the extra step with this one, and they are pushing their proprietary ideas to the forefront. If any of you saw the MS conference @ E3, you know what I mean. They are trying to lock things down, so that MS products do everything. What I see in Vista is MS trying to be everything to everyone, and I just can't see them succedding in that. They are making the OS so huge to do all this stuff... And that's not what I want. I'm looking for an OS to be less, and allow OTHER programs to do more. It's kinda like my political views: Less government/laws, the better off we are. Same with OS's, the less is more. The DRM thing is gonna be insane BTW. MS is siding with MPAA and the RIAA, and if they have their way, we will have to buy every song and movie, once for each of our protable players, once for each of our computers, and once for the disc players in the house. By including HDCP (etc.) in the internals of the OS, Microsoft gives these corporations the power to choose when, where, and how we listen and watch WHAT WE ALREADY BOUGHT AND PAID FOR. You might think I'm nuts for saying this stuff, but I want a 'free' computer, one that I control, not MS or anyone else. Needless to say, I'm thinking more Mac or Linux these days as the Vista beast is slowly rolling in. |
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But you're right, compared to Expose, it's really retarded. Microsoft probably threw it in to go "OOOOOOOH LOOK WHAT ELSE WE'VE ADDED!" |
Vista was supose to be the operating system with the overhaul of the interface design, security, and file system. Instead it is nothing like that. It has a semi 3d interface with alot of transperancy, a tiny bit better security, and the same old NTFS file system.
Now, instead of Vista it will be Vienna that gets WinFS, a complete security overhaul, and a differtent UI design. I was looking forward to Vista only for WinFS back when Microsoft said Vista would have it. But now it will be released seperately down the road and come built in on Vienna. The interface is going to be completely changed. They're getting rid of the start menu and the explorer shell. That means no more taskbar. They're suposedly looking into using something like the dock in OSX, heh. The security will be largely upgraded as well. Basicly all software will run in a sandbox. So if any bad code tries to run it's stuck in that sandbox and cannot access the OS. Which was also supose to be in Vista, wasn't it? But now it too is not. Seeing a pattern here? To me, Vista is nothing more than another Windows ME. A previous design with added eye candy and minimal features. The real upgrade will be afterwards. =/ Really.. Vista just comes off as a 'hey we're not done with the REAL OS so have this to hold you over'. |
Not sure if this is accurate, but I remember a discussion in my Operating Systems class (last year) about how Vista was supposed to handle drivers differently. Whereas XP will throw up a BSOD if a driver fails, Vista is supposed to actually catch the error and keep it from bringing down the entire system. Anyone know if this is true? And aside from the UI, has anyone actually tried using Vista casually?
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Brave new world...
Your impressions in the longer post brought a smile to my face. After having fun with Linux for years now, this all sounds like the coach of the other team purposefully shot his best players in the leg. And then there's this air of finality about Vista, like this was the last stand of the MS operating systems (and maybe the proprietary development model altogether). Because - like Dayvon said - Microsoft will try to abuse their (fading) monopoly to no end, enforcing DRM and the use of their own products. So hopefully people will finally wake up on a broader scale and realize how they're being screwed all over again and US and EU courts will prohibit the inclusion of numerous programs and technologies right away. Of course, it might just not happen after all - this I'd blame on the lack of public awareness or unwillingless to acknowledge just how important computers and digital media are in our everyday life. |
My take on Vista, I installed it, I toyed around with it for a day, and I came away underwhelmed. Most of what was unique and cool from previous builds slowly got stripped away and all that is left is XP with a bulkier UI. At least my sound drivers work with it this time without locking the system up.
The biggest annoyance is that it's messed with the bootloader so now I have to manually select Windows XP instead of Vista every time the computer starts up. Does anyone know how to reset the bootloader back to the original XP version? |
I'm just curious on how vista will operate in a domain environment with Server 2003. I hope GPO's will have the exact same effect as if they were applied on a XP machine. Actually, I'd much rather have the new server generation to be able to configure all machine settings from GPO ;_;
I'm encountering some problems now, mainly with user profiles. TO solve this, i have to configure local policies on the machine. I find this to be rather ridiculous and you should be able to centrally manage all settings using GPOs, but noooo. Where's Novell + ZEN when you need them ;_; And at work, I'm definately not going to purchase Vista until I'm sure it secure enough to get it and I'm positive it'll work well in a 2003 environment. Or better. And then there's the demand of the end-user, of course. |
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That's because when a bootloader is installed it overwrites the previous one, since they're all written to the master boot record of the hard-drive. Whereas Linux's bootloaders (GRUB/LILO) have separate installers that you can run on your own, I don't know of a program that installs the Windows bootloader other than an actual Windows install. What's even more annoying is that I can't figure out how to get it to go away when you've only got one Windows install (after previously having two) so that it'll just boot straight into Windows and not ask you to pick. Last time I messed with the boot.ini it created a whole mess of problems, so I don't dare touch that.
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I dunno about the bootloader but it just gave me an option to select between XP and Vista the last time I tried (first public beta, a year ago).
Dunno about you guys, but I'm looking forward to Vista. The GUI looks awesome, it's the first time I'm actually considering switching from the Windows Classic theme. That and the drop of GDI and using d3d acceleration is a reason in itself to use it. I don't care about the new features much, as long as it can be stripped down to work the way I'm used to it I'm OK. I am do concerned about over bloating the OS though. Windows XP is a bitch to strip down to basic levels, but I've seen it running fine on a 300mhz non-intel cpu. I hope that Vista will not have that much bloat loaded on it, but I doubt it will happen. That and over-DRMing it are my only concerns. If I had spare HD space I would've already installed the latest beta. My sad sad 160 gigster has been running on 5gb free space (spanning over 3 volumes) since months by now. I really need a new hdd and I think I'll be able to get a huge one soon (if I won't find some kickass CPU bundle anyway). |
So far I haven't seen anything in the marketing spiel about how there will be any kind of performance improvements. I like to work on my computer. I like my important programs to get more CPU time and memory so I can do more. I don't want a lifestyle (clear, connected, cunt-soaked or something), I want a functional, efficient machine. This is why i'm still on Windows 2000 with Windows XPx64 as a backup. They aren't perfect either but better the devil you know. I don't like Steve jobs but he could make a killing in the PC OS market if he wanted to.
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I've been playing with beta 2 for a few days now, I can't really get used to it to be honest. It's pretty vague some stuff, like in the control panel some of the options have now been renamed ("Personalisation" wtf is that shit?!) which is pretty confusing, has thrown the learning curve up a bit.
Furthermore I just seem to be getting lost while using it, I'm not a novice or anything, but I just get the feeling that there are a lot of "top level" folders, whereas before on XP the Desktop was seen as the (albiet virtual) top level folder, now it seems that we have "desktop, user name folder, computer" top levels, which is quite confusing really. It's strange, it's not that much different from XP, but then it also is. It looks pretty, but then they've stolen a lot of stuff from OS X to be honest, some of it done badly (flip3d is the prime example i can think of). |
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Besides that, like I said before, it seems Microsoft aren't trying to use DWM to speed up their interface or accomplish productivity-increasing things, merely add eye-candy—eye-candy that is functionality-impairing no less. |
OS X has Classic and it still draws classic program windows with the OS 9 look. Theoretically, MS could do something similar while they push people to upgrade their software. Then again, there are businesses that have to buy emulators of their old computers because it isn't "cost effective" for them to upgrade.
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If you can turn off all the bling bling then I'll try this "Windows"
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All this Aero BS doesn't impress me, or even any new user features. What I'm interested in is the improvements to the core OS in terms of stability, security and speed. If, for example EAC finds a part on a CD that it can't read locks up (like it does on WinXP for me) and fucks up Windows Vista, I'll still be cautious about trying it. The only reason I'm even using Windows XP (as opposed to Win2k), is because Microsoft essentially abandoned the OS, only fixing bugs and security holes now. But since I'm expecting the Vista adaption rate to be slower than WinXP (thanks to there not being Win9x to jump up from), we should be set with XP until 2010.
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Then again DirectX 10 will be Vista exclusive, this could shorten the time span one will be able to do everything with XP quite a bit. (Seeing that the availability of games is still a strong pull of Windows when compared to other OSs).
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I'm still hoping the industry will react by increasing their adoption of OpenGL/SDL.
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Don't hold your breath.
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The beta version is up for download at the Microsoft website,
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvist...y/preview.mspx Installed it and it still has alot of work to go through. Runs about average on my P4 3.2GHZ PC. |
Having bit the bullet and installed Vista beta 2, I used it for about 2 hours and decided it was horrible and reverted to my good old XP. I don't think that there is any possible way that that OS is going to shape up. I'm moving to Mac for the next OS I buy, especially because I'll still be able to put XP on it.
Vista was very very slow. I liked the auto driver installation, but that wasn't good enough to keep me insterested. It kept asking me if I gave it permission to do anything administrative, which really got on my nerves, especially because it slowed my computer to a screeching halt every time it asked me (which was about once a minute). I liked some of the features of it, but I don't think that the new UI is great. There's way too much load on the graphics processor because it brought my PCIE X700 256MB to its knees. All in all it's just not that great. |
We installed the beta on one of our powerful new workstations at work last week. Vista is, in a single word, Pigware. The box was an Athlon 64 3200+, with 1gb DDR2 memory, we just built it the previous day. It felt the same way Windows XP did when I installed it on a Dell Gx1 (No better than a P3 550).
The install was 10gb out of the box, and the PF usage was about 650mb, out of the box. The little toy sidebar alone consumed about 55mb of ram. No wonder 1gb is the recommended minimum from people that have tried it. I'm not looking forward to its widespread adoption. It's prettier, but not worth the tenfold cost on the system. And the little window previews when you hover over icons in the taskbar was nifty, but that's the only thing I really noticed that I liked. |
Really most people who are going to use Vista are those who get it pre-installed. I don't see many people ponying up the money to upgrade their PC to buy that OS. Since Windows XP has MUCH wider adoption with mainstream users than Win2k does, I don't see Microsoft ditching XP as near as early (even though XP and 2k are extremely similar).
Though that won't stop me from trying the final release at least once just for the hell of it :). |
I like the way it frosts the title bars on inactive windows. It's impractical, and a waste of resources, but very pretty. It didn't seem *too* slow on a P4 3.0G with 1GB RAM and a 6200 video card. But it certainly was missing some speed when compared to Windows XP or Suse 10.X.
I love that they are really giving the 'administrator permision required' model a go. Unfortunately it's not handled smoothly. Apple does this very well, and it'd just be a matter of changing the way configuration menus etc. are handled for Vista to get close to it. The reason I installed Vista was to create documentation for connecting to our wireless network (configure adaptor to use DHCP). Using their non-classic control panel it is much, much more complicated than doing the same task on Win2000/XP. A serious step backwards. It was kinda funny that in doing this I found a bug which prevents the system from taking screenshots correctly in 32bit colour. I see no reason to adopt it in the near, or any currently projected future. My organization will not be makeing the move until there is a compelling line of business reason that it has to be done. I don't love XP, but it does the same things at least as well as Vista. Why rock the boat when you don't need to? This release may be skipped entirely for me (aside from putzing around with it of course). |
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The following might be a little beside the point in a Vista-related discussion but here's my experience with security levels in Windows:
I'm not exactly sure how much more secure it is on XP to do my everyday stuff on a restricted account - which is feasible with little initial effort (by setting everything up as the admin and then switch to the low-rights user, obviously). It just becomes a pain later on with all the small annoyances thrown in for good meassure:
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The prices for Windows Vista were revealed today.
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Not bad, really....considering XP Pro is still $150 plus in most retail places. :p
I'm looking to finally have a legit copy of 2000 and maybe consider getting XP. :D |
You can't charge that much for an OS and expect people to have legitimate copies of it. Sorry, I'm not sold.
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In comparison, Apple's Mac OS X 10 is ony $130. Kind of why I wanted to know what the different Windows versions had included was to make a better comparison. Somehow though I doubt Windows Vista Home Basic is going to be anywhere near as good as OS X to be charging an additional 50. To be fair though, A OS X would typically require you to go out and buy hardware for it, which besides the Mac Mini (Still $600) always seems to be $1000 and above.
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If most of the Windows applications I use for XP still work and future applications for Vista are easily cracked and you can turn off that DRM bullshit I'd buy Windows Vista Ultimate.
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Did anyone else here get the invitation to Pre-RC1? It was a pleasant surprise for me from my inbox until I figured everyone who participated in the Public Beta probably got one. Although I still feel kind of special. Its sitting on my HD as I figure out what I'm going to install it on.
Anyway, besides that, I think I might buy Vista Ultimate. I don't really want to pirate software for the rest of my life, and it seems like pirating Vista, in the end, will be a real pain. Considering I'll have a job, it shouldn't be that hard to get it. |
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LOL. Because I'm in the ITEC course at the college, I get almost every Microsoft Product for free, with legal keys. XP, Server, Office, VB, etc. The course pays for itself RIGHT THERE. I'm hoping that Vista will release while I'm in the course still so I will be able to simply take Vista and screw Microsoft. |
So what's this DRM stuff?
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OK, RC1 is out. Anyone knows if its worth downloading now, or should I wait till its available for public testing? I heard somewhere that it's better to wait because of the activation crap.
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Ive now got it, and yes its worth dloading. Its still not perfect, but many improvments have been made. This is worlds better than Beta 2. UAC has been backed off tremendously (only shows up for major config changes) I havent had any program compatibility problems (AIM installs now!) Its now at a level where i can use it as a main OS without any problems. Good job microsoft, you actually did something right for once.
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I mean, hey, this is a classic already: Microsoft actually tries to implement a system which seperates every-day-use and administrative space and the masses cry out to have it removed again - either because it was poorly designed to begin with or the average Windows beta tester is too lazy to type in a password before making system-wide changes. I guess Microsoft customers will get their money's worth, sandboxed web browsers and virtualization rootkits instead of a long due, well structured security model. |
UAC is a good idea in theory. You cant have it trying to confirm every action you make though. It was only 1 step away from trying to confirm EVERY action you made. (In beta 2 i wouldnt have been suprised to see it come up opening the solitare game) Now, i only see it when installing software, and making changes in critical windows environments (device manager, internet options...etc) Still ahead of the XP out-of-the-box security. Maybe we will see Vista as a good thing in the end after all. Basicly what i was saying in my first post was that compaired to beta 2, im now somewhat impressed.
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So I got my hands on a copy of Windows Vista Enterprise Edition, and I'm very thrilled. I read some of the early reviews of the Beta/RC1 and let me tell you that the issues I have with it aren't nearly as annoying as most reviews would lead you to believe.
Everything seems to run very smoothly on it, though I've had trouble with some games. I toss this up to not having the correct video drivers though, as I was still using the old XP ones for my 6800 GT video card. One annoying problem is when I copy over files, it periodically stops copying to tell you that it's copying files. You have to click 'ok' to tell it to keep going. Also, like XP, most programs you run will ask you at least once whether you really should run it or not, but after a quick yes, it doesn't bother you much. The Aero theme is very sleek and nice. Transparency is wonderful, as well as the new alt+tab and windows+tab features. The GUI itself is of course very nice, and the new explorer is pretty helpful for fast navigation. It displays a list of all the directories and sub directories you are currently in for quick access. When you go to Start > All Programs, it no longer pops up a giant menu of all the programs you have, but instead creates a frame within the start menu with a scrolling list of your programs as well. I'm not sure if I like this feature or not, but it's definitely a change from XP. The Search function is pretty neat, as it displays results are you are typing. You can use this to find pretty much anything, from pictures, to folders, to files, and programs. So far I haven't found too much to hate, as most of it is just improvements to XP. It seems overly secure in second-guessing every action you take though, but usually only if it's the first time you do something (Like running a program that connects to the internet) |
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It makes Vista a lot more enjoyable, I hated it double checking everything I did. "You are about to enter a PORNOGRAPHIC SITE. ARE YOU SURE: Y/N" "I typed it in my browser, didn't I?" |
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But hey, are we POSIX users in the least surprised?
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Of course not, because you predicted it all along!
TAKE THAT, MICRO$OFT |
It's a mystery to me why everybody wants to have Windows Vista now. I don't see any reason to switch my MS operating system, and I'm still using Windows 2000. Only difference to XP is the eye candy value and I really don't need that.
Kernel is nearly the same and you can run almost every software for XP on 2K. The only reason why some software doesn't install on 2K is because of a restriction in the installation script. See e.g. Civilization 4 - remove a simple check in the script and you're free to install it. And it works. Only feature that I miss from W2K (pro) is the NIC bridging feature (to connect two networks when you have >= 2 NICs in your computer). Looking at Vista I get this: - even more eye candy (to hell with that!) - DRM everywhere (kernel-space, user-space) - only digitally signed drivers are allowed (wtf?!) That's like paying money to imprison yourself... |
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I won't comment on this. But there are obviously some people who are only interested how bright and colorful the desktop is and don't give a damn about something like privacy and control about the machine they're working with.
At least I don't want to give up this control. It's my machine and if I want to screw it up I should be able to do so (as admin of course). |
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I get what you're saying, but you do realize that you just seriously responded to a joke statement, right?
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Sure, and there is probably some sort of international law against that. ;)
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There isn't, but I would be very happy if you would stop posting in this thread, because my eyes hurt from rolling so hard.
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Well, if you don't like my rhetoric, maybe this little analysis is more to your liking.
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Thanks for that document, I'm actually starting to feel some sympathy for the developers over at Microsoft.
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Microsoft better wake up and realize that they need to start developing an OS for it's users and not the entertainment industry. Either that, or DirectX 10 needs to see a (hacked) release for Windows XP. :/ |
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Fedora Core. That's got to be slower than Windows Vista. If you're going to jump the train to linux, at least use a distro that doesn't suck. |
Any hard facts why Fedora core sucks?
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Hoover has taken Apple's ideas into consideration. They now believe that common devices ( like a phone or a media player ) should run an operating system; including their vacuum cleaners. Their newest models will specifically include the latest Fedora Core. When asked about it, the CEO of Hoover said little. However, it is clear that he wants to attempt to surpass the ever-growing Katamari industry. :katamari: |
Yesterday I reformatted my Dell notebook and reinstalled XP MCE04 FROM Vista RC1. Vista is pretty and has some nice functionality, but until it works 100% without issue on my notebook (which I bought a couple months before they announced their express upgrade bullshit, fags :(), I won't bother with it.
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My Vista RTM is now fully cracked but still not 100% functional and this bothers me.
My tablet drivers don't work as flawlessly as I like: If I do something like use the touchstrip or press one of the buttons the drivers corrupt and I have to restart to get it to work again. Also, Office 2007 RTM won't install. Setup always crashes when I mount the image. Although I have gotten some well-deserved bonding time with OpenOffice.org, I need my Office to live. I think a reinstall is in order sometime soon. |
Just curious, what mission critical features does OpenOffice.org lack in your case?
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I don't need Office, but it just feels like I do. |
Vista didn't like my new computer.
All I know is that Microsoft is going to let users download the operating system. |
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I was just quoting what I readoff of slashdot :o
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Personally I like Vista. I'm going to test run it with the rc2 key crack once I have some free time. I'm tired of XP and I'm looking for something new, without breaking 99% of my well configured apps in the process (the reason why I don't use Linux - it just can't do what I want it to do). Based on my experience with Vista RC2, the only thing I'll need is a driver for my mouse that can configure buttons 3 4 and 5 for custom functions (3 and 4 - center click, 5 - CTRL). The previous driver/software I used did not run in Vista RC2. I doubt its fixed in the final version, so I may need to search for a mouse hotkey app. It's kind of annoying that Vista has billions of features even allowing you to use the OS without a physical keyboards, but theres not a damn mouse button config window in it. |
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The only difference between those two is that XP is somehow 'consumer-friendly' because the administrative tools are better hidden from the dumb user. These is no such thing as change in the driver model or API changes. Everytime someone tells you that their software runs on XP, BUT not on 2K it's complete bullshit. The reason is that they don't want you to run their software on 2K. Especially MS wants user to migrate from older versions of the OS to the new one, reason: money, market control, etc. All the new DirectX, .NET, etc. stuff also works on 2K. The only thing both 2K and XP lack is the DRM-ed system components. There lies also the difference between the change from Win98 to 2K, and XP to Vista. Everything that changed from 98 to 2K was a benefit for the user. Better driver model, more stable core architecture (adopted from NT), etc. The changes from XP to Vista are only beneficial for the hardware vendors and the music/video industry. Palladium, TPM and such are on their way. 'OK, software and stuff will be cracked anyway' some will say, but if the whole DRM-story becomes true and is implemented in hardware we'll have a hard time doing things that we used to do. Small and up to date example. The breaking/cracking of the HDDVD, Blu-Ray encryption AACS. We know that there is a tool out there that does the decoding, IF we provide a key (or multiple keys, check the AACS docs) for the content. The problem is not the decryption because the standard is open. The encryption can't be broken, this is because of the use of the AES encryption algo (which is proven to be strong by all means). Hope relies on finding a hole in the AACS system to get the keys. Now decryption of the content happens on the CPU, so the key used has to appear at least once in one of the processer registers. Fire up your debugger and find it. Even if you don't have software access to the system you can sniff on the processor bus (this is a complicated process, and you need special equipment). The data transferred there is not encryted (maybe interleaved and such, but not crypted in the sense of an asymmetric encryption). This sniffing process is the last possibility to get your data if anything else fails. Now the problem: If DRM comes and hardware is designed the way the DRM-people want it, also this transfer over bus and all other signals on cables, etc. is encrypted. You won't have the possibility to sniff on the data.period. What does that mean for the AACS example: - Use of debuggers will be forbidden by the OS when a Blu-Ray/HDDVD software is running - Modified OS won't run on your hardware (so you can't remove the debugger check) - hardware sniffing isn't possible either So? cya liquid |
A recommended 1gb of ram to use the OS is insane, eventually they're going to force everyone to it with needed things like Direct X, which in turn will seem to up the standards on the average PC. Oh well, bound to happen I guess and will again in another few years. I see a lot of people upgrading or buying better PCs soon. Sucks for those who can't so easily go out and just spend money like that. Though if its anything like the 98-2k-XP transition, most people will have a couple of years to get on it.
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I fixed it.
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I just read this article on Microsofts decision to snub the Audio card developers such as Creative by getting rid of hardware audio support in Windows Vista. I was thinking of getting Vista but now I am not so sure.
I use my audio cards for music composition and I have my own custom sound banks that I have spent months building for this purpose. Now all my work could be potentially ruined by Microsofts decision to do this. Here is the link to the article I read this in. http://pc.ign.com/articles/759/759538p1.html Can anyone confirm this that owns Vista? I am currently using my Audigy 2ZS and the most important functions are the soundfont bank loading utilities. I own one of these cards mainly so I can build soundfont banks and use them in conjunction with my synthesizers and pre-recorded artists. As long as these functionalities still work I will not be completely pissed. Because then I can just keep my audio card in there for the Soundfont functionality and use whatever Vista uses for everything else. |
The big question is why do you want Vista? There is no compelling reason to purchase it. Yes, it is the newest OS, but that doesn't mean it is the best. It sounds like you have functionality that you need in XP. Stick with it for a while.
If it ain't broke don't try and fix it. |
If creative gets screwed, I'll be a happy man. Their cards are garbage, yet everyone eats up their horseshit features.
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The hardware is high quality, the only problem are the drivers.
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Well Creative is the only company to have made a card that lets me craft my own set of soundfonts that dwarf thousand dollar keyboard's sounds. So as a composer and performing musician I would be pretty angry to lose that functionality.
My reason for switching is as follows: In XP you are limmited to using 385 or so mb of ram for sound, you can further hack it to make I think near a gig available. So when I load in my enormous banks I am limited to sizes of 380ish mb of ram even though I have far more than that in my computer. I want to expand the size of my soundfont banks beyond a gig but in order to do that I need an operating system that will let me utilize more ram. Plus, the true utilization of dual core CPU's in windows wont hurt either. That is why I was interested in switching, however since the recent anouncment I will hold my judgement till I know soundfonts will work. Is there another OS that will let me didicate up to 2 gigs of my ram to midi function? I don't even know for sure if Vista will let me dedicate that much but I know it will at least be better than the meager 385. |
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Update: This sort of describes it, I am looking for the actual link that helps you further extend the size through editing the registy pagepoolsize http://phorum.sf2midi.com/viewtopic....3db7a3cf9e4a04 |
I know of the discussion between MS and Creative blaming each other for the problem. It's a problem on both sides but Creative is too lazy to refactor their drivers to avoid the problem (like using multiple memory pools and swapping them). The limitation of the pool for hw soundfont engines is a problem, but if Creative wanted they could easily work around it (doing some more stuff in user space).
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I just tried some alternate Soundfont loading programs and they pale in comparison with Creatives. This one distorts my amazing live vibraphone soundfont to the point of uselessness. I sure hope the creative ones work in Vista with a larger chunk of ram to pull from.
Oh and on a side note, I read that KX is limited by the same windows issue that limits the creative soundfonts. |
To anyone who has Vista retail (noone), did they fix the logo on startup? Its really annoying just having a progress bar.
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I really don't know because the largest SF I used was around 200MiBi in size. |
I am not sure about the bleeding edge version but I did check their faq and they acknowledged the pagepool size issue was present in the KX drivers also. I will try the beta, but I am pretty sure that the issue alone lies with Windows XP. I tried Sfz which is a soundfont loader and it will load my bank but it limits sound usage to 16 channels from a bank at any given time. So I can only utilize 16 instruments at a time. boooooooooo. Since Vista does allow a significant increase in ram utilized I imagine any limitation that they introduce will be larger also, but I cannot find anything that states the facts on that. I guess I will find out when I try it or someone else does that I am in contact with.
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There was this bit about "Decreased Playback Quality" in a DRM-related analysis (LINK) I posted earlier and how it could prevent smaller content producers from creating high quality products (see footnote G). I'm not sure whether this only applies to video or audio as well. You might want to check it out.
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All I have to say about that is wow. There were soo many ridiculous descisions made with windows vista, it makes me wanna vom. However, I still could not find anything about the pagepool size for sound. Good read though.
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Ugly loader aside, I've actually been pleasantly surprised by Vista's performance thus far. The Aero interface seems to run smoothly on my old Dell Inspiron laptop, and I haven't found any real bugginess so far. It still seems a lot like a pretty version of Windows XP, though...I'd be kind of annoyed if I had, like, paid money for a new copy of it. (Friends with TechNet subscriptions are good friends indeed.) |
Does Vista require new device drivers for all hardware?
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Yes. And a lot of hardware has no vista drivers. MS is gay.
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Back in 2000 when XP was announced to require 256mb of RAM, I was upset that my current PC at the time wasn't able to run it. (I think it had about 128mb in it). Then I upgraded in late 2001 to a rig with 512mb of RAM, 40gb HDD, and a GeForce 2, it was INSANE how awesome it was at the time. Then I upgraded again in 2005 to a rig with 1gb of RAM and 120gb of HDD space, along with a GeForce 6800 GTS. I'm hoping to upgrade again in the near future with more RAM, a bigger HDD and a new case. And when I do I'll probably pick up Vista too. |
I'm buying a copy of Vista Ultimate for $45 so I'll have a legal copy of Windows, but it's staying on the shelf until:
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Did Microsoft poison the water supply or something? |
Where the hell are you getting it for $45? I've only found it OEM for $200.
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Microsoft Company Store for employees. No, I don't work at MS, a friend does. Hookups, baby.
Also, Merv, are you really so juvenile as to feel the need to try and provoke me in every thread I post in? It's just sad at this point. Please find some other way to get your rocks off. Thanks. I'm buying a copy of Vista because, like I said, I'd like a legal license of Windows for the first time in many many years, especially since WGA has made it much more annoying to keep one's OS up to date if you pirate it. It also helps that I can get it so cheap, and I have a real job with a healthy income, so it's not a big deal to buy things anymore. Graduating from college rules. |
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I haven't even done anything to you in months. I figure your posts speak far better for themselves than what I could do. Also I'll get Vista Ultimate for $7. Being in college rules. |
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Enough with the ad hominems. Apple users who like Apple annoy you. We get it. |
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I can get Home Premium (Upgrade) for $90, but that $7 deal is the bomb. How's come your college discount is a billion times better than mine? :( |
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Oh, nice.
My University isn't small by any means, but it's not a large State University the likes of Michigan State or UCLA. I believe it's Division II size by NCAA standards. |
Let's hope this guy didn't pay more than 7 bucks either...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxQm3IsSKAo |
Nah, that's just Anthony from the Opie and Anthony radio show. I'm not surprised he did that, regardless if he paid for it himself or not.
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Have a nice day! |
I finally got to toy around with Vista on my friend's new laptop, and I don't know what to think.
I don't want to call it overbearing, because this is a laptop we're talking about, pre-loaded with all kinds of junk (free trials omg then I pay how much?) that hasn't been cleaned out yet. One thing I noticed was the security prompt. I sort of like it, but it seems to be on way too many things. If there's a way to set it to only prompt for critical system changes then I'd be cool with it. Another thing that struck me as odd was how often the hard drive was being accessed. Is that normal on Vista? What exactly is it doing? I didn't hate it, so that's a good thing. I'd need more time to warm up to it though. |
There's a version of Vista on TPB stripped of DRM, palladium, and pretty much well anything not used explicitly for gaming.
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3610615/...NoDRM-INTERNAL |
I doubt that. The core DRM-components are not separated from the kernel, so the team providing this Vista version would have reverse engineered the entire Vista kernel. This is no easy task even for a large team of experienced programmers - not comparable to something like the SafeDisc/SecuROM hacking.
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It's supposedly done by someone who works at ms. considering that the iso is like 400mb, it's *really* stripped to hell.
I don't really care at this point though, won't be able to update it or anything. I won't be using vista until I absolutely have to for games.. even then I'd probably still be using XP primarily. |
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That was actually pretty neat. Even with the slowdown of using it remote access I got what I thought I'd like. I really really like the new explorer and feel of vista.
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I've got a new laptop with Vista and I'm unimpressed. Programs crashing left and right for one. Slow response time from waking up from the screen saver (Turion X64 2.0GHz 1GB RAM), but above all else, I'm most irked by three things I've noticed thus far in the short time.
1. Drop down menus in the Start Menu - What was wrong with the old setup? This just takes up more space. 2. Forcing the newest versions - Damn right I pirated Office 2007. I'm not buying a new one just because you refuse to let me use my old Word Processor. 3. Networking - For home networking and sharing, I should be allowed to use this Home Premium version, not have to get the $300 OS for simple features. I'll probably end up whining in my ChocoJournal about it some time as I discover other problems, but the crashes and programs closing does kinda bother me. |
I'm using a legit copy of Home Premium on my laptop, from which I am writing this post.
I've been running Vista on this machine for a couple of weeks now and I've had a great experience with it thus far. It's extremely responsive, very fast, and very stable. I don't think I've had an application crash yet other than Explorer crashing a couple of times because it was trying to create thumbnails for .avi files and I hadn't installed the codecs yet. I'm really falling in love with a lot of the built-in stuff like Windows Photo Gallery. Sure, it isn't as fancy as some of the more expensive third-party programs, but for someone like me who just wants to upload/organize photos, it's a dream come true. I haven't used Windows DVD Maker yet, but I'm glad to see some native DVD support at last. The rewritten network interface is awesome, for real. It generally takes me under 3 or 4 seconds to connect to a network completely (way faster than in XP). Other thoughts: Vista is similar to XP, but in many ways it's a totally new OS. Some applications aren't going to be compatible with it, or are going to have bugs, and that's just something we have to deal with. Things can't be totally backwards compatible forever because eventually it's going to get in the way of new concepts or programming. Mac had to do it when OS X came out, now it's our turn with Vista. Overall, I'm having a great time with Vista, and I would definitely never go back to XP as my primary OS. |
Could someone please detail for me what Home Basic is missing? I mean, I dont have a lot of money but I'm still interested in the upgrade.
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Basic doesn't have the whole fancy 3D-desktop and a lot of administrative tools/options are gone as well.
See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows...ns_and_pricing |
I finally got a chance to try Vista at a SonyStyle store this week, and was pretty unimpressed. Granted, what I used was a laptop, but it just didn't feel like it worked that well. The look of everything just wasn't terribly sharp; I don't know how to really be more specific in that.
I also didn't have much time however, so I guess these are really just surface feelings. However, I did like the Window scrolling (windows+tab) feature. I'd probably never use it, but it was pretty cool. Oh well, I'll also try to pick up a version on a Student Discount and run it in BootCamp eventually. I love OSX, but its bloody hell for gaming. |
I'm holding off on Vista until the driver situation is largely sorted out.
Meanwhile, I've had the opportunity to test out Vista on another laptop. Brings nothing new to the table -- nearly everything that could have set it apart was stripped out. |
i agree with flex, the problems wih vista like all new windows software is the bugs. have to give them a few months to fix em
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Other than software compatibility problems (granted Windows XP had that problem during the Win9x -> WinNT transition), the only major gripe I have with Vista is UAC. The experience with Vista is thusfar good enough that I only plan to use Windows XP when a program refuses to run.
Back to UAC though, I really think it's too overbearing. While I don't plan to turn it off, I do wish there was a degree of warnings/confirmations less the the current state. If you've ever tried to delete a file from the Program Files folder, you know exactly what I mean (three warnings to delete some shitty temp file? Why?). |
Yeah, I turned UAC off. It was really fucking annoying. I imagine that if they don't do some sort of major upgrade to let off the hassle in an update in the future then most people will end up doing the same.
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Just got a new computer with Vista. Tried to install Sibelius 4, and it said I needed to be a computer administrator to register. But I am the administrator. Is this becauyse Silbeius 4 is incompatible with Vista? Or is ther esomething I can do.
Thanks, Walter Ramsey |
You can go to the shortcut of the program or the program itself and tell it to run in Administrator mode. Also, you should probably turn off Vista's UAC because that shit is hella annoying.
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Whats UAC? Is that the thing that makes it ask me to confirm every operation
How do I turn it off? Walter Ramsey PS Your advice worked, ran in administrator mode and it allowed me to register Thanks |
User Account Control. Name basically says it.
Anyway go to Control Panel, then User Accounts, and click on Turn User Account Control on or off. It'll probably say nooo y u do this? or something but it's pretty simple and then Vista is cool beans with just about everything. No prob, I did a bit of research before diving into Vista so I knew what I was doing and what to avoid and such when I installed it. I did fool around to see how UAC reacts to certain things and basically it reacts to just about everything. It's not as exaggerated as some amusing images from its betas might tell you but it does get old after a while. |
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You think they could've though that out when the tested the feature themselves. |
Yeah, I imagine they'll probably do that eventually with a service pack. The problem is very apparent when you think of it from a user's stand point. They probably decided to put it off for later and get the product out.
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Thanks for your help with that issue.
One little thing: I don't like the new "Freecell" and "Hearts" that come with Vista. :) Is there anyway to get the old versions - I still have my XP up and running? Are there just files I can copy over, or can I download these somewhere? I searched for the files in Program Files and Windows folders, but couldn't find anything that suggested these games. Thanks Walter Ramsey |
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Here, I always back-up my previous installations so I went and got the games that work for Vista which is most of them. Unfortunately Internet Backgammon, I. Checkers, I. Hearts, I. Reversi, and I. Spades don't work.
I've included Freecell, Hearts, Minesweeper, Solitaire, Spider Solitaire, and even Space Cadet Pinball. Some of the card games require the included cards.dll to be in the same folder, so don't lose it. Enjoy! =) Just a note, to find out where these games were all you'd have to do is go through your old xp start menu and look at where the shortcuts point to by looking at their target properties. |
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