ITT we discuss why you staffers can't moderate Microsoft's Window
 

Ok assholes, enough dancing around this subject. Myself and a number of others are starting to get pissed off here.

I'm sure by this point you understand the problem. There are tonnes of shitty, terrible posts in that forum. Devo reports them by the fuckload, I'm sure you've all seen that by now. However, unlike the other gaming forums, nothing is done about this.

So we GFF denizens who prefer a decent browsing experience when we read that forum ask for help from the mod team! Do we get any assistance? No. We get excuses.

"But the Window gets less activity in it than the other gaming forums!"

The only excuse that holds any real truth or point to it. Yeah, it does. We get it, the Xbox isn't the biggest thing around here. Whoopee. So there are less posts in there.

But that should make it easier to moderate! You only have to skim through or see a few posts a day to determine what's good and what needs to be removed like a tattoo of a giant penis on your forehead.

"But I don't give a shit about Xbox!"

Are you saying that of all the staffers, even the useless ones, we don't have a single one with even a passing interest in Microsoft's console? Or at least one with enough of an interest in gaming in general to peek his head in there from time to time? I find that hard as fuck to believe.

Seeing as how there is not a lot of activity in there, how difficult is it to stick your face in there for a few minutes and earn that badge below your title?

And if no existing member of staff exists that would do the job, there are plenty of others who would do a fine job. None of them care about anything but fixing up the current state of that forum.

So let's get some GOOD reasons for why you guys aren't in there.

And I don't want any shit excuses like the ones we got recently from Mush or Face that are along the lines of "It isn't a big deal" or "There isn't even a problem in there". Thanks.

Is this even a word.

Edit: Well, there is some discussion being made among the mod team right now about this issue, so it isn't being ignored entirely, but the end result does seem to be in question as of this point.

1 entry found for tonnes.
tonne Audio pronunciation of "tonnes" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tn)
n.

A metric ton.

I'm sorry I don't speak American.

Additionally, yeah. Discussion. Or so I've heard. And the end result of that discussion so far has been these bullshit excuses I discussed above. What is there to talk about? Just MODERATE IT.

If worse comes to worst, just assign someone different to mod that place on a weekly basis. Everyone can share the responsibilities they don't want then! No one gets fucked more or less than the next guy!

Funny thing is that this is an annual thing with MW. I had to make a thread JUST LIKE THIS ONE a year or two ago because the Window was suffering from the same problems it was now. We got a solution, but it was temporary.

I agree that the Window really, really could use some long-term help here.

Apology accepted, communist filth.

Honestly I don't care enough to have an opinion, I just wanted the chance to imply Megalith was at the heart of a grand spam conspiracy.

Oh, you guys

Microsoft's Window has a lot of shit posts

Do you know who makes shit posts

Oh wait it's shitty posters

Hey guys does anyone know the names of some major Window posters

Hands up



Guys I can always get myself remodded if you want law & order so badly

It's no sweat man

Really, making Pang a moderator again would only make things worse, but thanks for the offer!

You are, in essence, asking us to put out a fire by throwing more gasoline on it.

This is very detrimental to our health, you see.

Let's also bring back and remod Cain while we're at it.

RECIPE FOR SUCCESS.

I suppose by driving away all the posters from Gamingforce we would also solve the Windows problems at the same time!

SKILLS YOU ARE A GENIUS. ='D

But I could delete a lot of posts

I have a good talent for that

Seriously I can work with Devo since she knows everything

She will say "Pang, delete this" and I will do that immediately

I am not seeing any flaws in this plan! Massive numbers of posts will get deleted! Delight will flow through the kingdom of airplanes.

1) We have been discussing that already, like, this week, and today.

2) We always know it is a problem. As Tails said that he posted a thread a long time ago, we do discuss this as we realize it becomes a problem.

3) There is no good excuse why we don't do it. If you assigned me to it, I might watch it for like a week and then I'd abandon it because I don't have an XBOX and I frankly don't really give a shit enough to read posts about XBOXs and XBOX games and the like. I get that you are saying, "Well, you're a mod, read the posts anyway asshole!"

Let's say that ANGST was the undermodded forum. You wanna read every post in that forum? It's harder to do when you really don't give a shit about the topic.

I think only one moderator on the entire team owns an XBOX product.

4) Rotating mods is not a good solution to success in a forum. You gotta know the posters, the trends, the styles.

5) As Pang pointed out, there is a lot of shit in XBOX because there are a lot of shitty posters who want to talk about the XBOX. This kind of limits our pool of mod candidates to fill that hole with -- it always has.

6) If Pang wants to mod huge XBOX posts I am IN FAVOR.

Hey what's up.

I'll just add that I am currently not in favor of Pang ever modding anything ever again.

Hey it was great chatting, thanks for your time.

Well, that's exactly it. No one has the necessary motivation to mod XBOXWINDOW out of genuine concern because that is logically impossible! HOWEVER: Modding out of pure malicious spite? Totally doable.

Let's get this show on the road. INITIATE OPERATION: STERILEBOX

Would you guys be fine if we just gave Pang access to ban people? He wouldn't even have to delete posts; who would go back and look at old XBOX threads anyway?

This is an easy problem to fix.

Get someone who frequents the forum to moderate it. Just because Tube and Megalith were saying it doesn't mean it's a retarded idea.

I might have said "sure" back in 2003 when Pang was a witty and constructive poster. Nowadays he's no better than half the people he'd end up banning anyway.


Mikey, I assume http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/im...n-supermod.gif means you probably should.

We can discuss this! You know, if anybody has a compelling reason why a mod should not be appointed to mod a forum that you insist needs more modding, please speak up!

"I hate his guts and he's a jerk" is not a reason! You must explain why that's relevant!

One can only imagine what your list of candidates looks like!

Devo for Microsoft's Window Moderator 2006
Devo for Microsoft's Window Moderator 2006
Devo for Microsoft's Window Moderator 2006
Devo for Microsoft's Window Moderator 2006
Devo for Microsoft's Window Moderator 2006
Devo for Microsoft's Window Moderator 2006
Devo for Microsoft's Window Moderator 2006

It's short, but it doesn't include the names "Zeal" or "Megalith." Depending on the day, it may or may not include "TubeRacer."

Are there days of the week during which Tube isn't on the rag, Merv?

Because I don't think the End Days are upon us yet!

Supported for ironical comedy reasons.

DEVO FOR INEVITABLE IMPLOSION 2006

sir are you implying youd make a better moderator than dev

because if so, i might have to shoot you so as to prevent you from further infecting the gene pool

But he was a staffer Tails! Proof enough that he's totally a trustworthy person to appoint to this task!

Just like Decker

No, I am sure Dev will make a great moderator for the ten minutes before her logic modulator shorts out as a result of becoming the very thing she can't stop complaining about all the time.

Look, Tails? I was wrong, and I'm sorry.



WACKY ASIDE: The worst thing Decker ever did was get rid of Tifa, let's not be unfair

Vote to delete Microsoft's Window: Y/N

Actually, not a bad idea. Do that, merge it with General Video Gaming, and those who take care of GVG can take care of the Xbox related threads when an issue comes up.

Vote to delete all XBOX related threads and cool.php those who post about it: Y/N

I actually think letting her mod MW would kill two birds with one stone.

It'd make her happy (less complaining) and the Window wouldn't suck any more!

WHY DO YOU HATE SOLUTIONS, PANG

I cast your apologies to the wind cuz usk!

Well, it's a better idea than having it stagnate like it is now, and then trying to address the problem with a thread only to have it ruined with Sewers quality stuff. =\

Y under the condition that Dev is still given a superfluous mod position for laffs

Concert Hall maybe

T TAILZ: So when I said "supported" you like went momentarily blind and didn't see it

That's cool

Mods that gain support from being in the concert hall end up like Minion and Face. We don't want that now, do we?

Well, look, there are two solutions. One is that one of us can moderate it, which none of us want to do. The other is to make a new moderator out of someone, which we have been discussing in the Hut. We're looking at several people and I think a decision will come sooner than you think, until then, we're stuck with the report-post-fix thing that's been going on.

Sooner than I think means eventually, seeing as how long it takes you guys to come to conclusions some times.

Anyway, thank you BM. Is there any significant progress being made or is this a case where everyone has a problem with someone and the chances of any real progress being made is next to none?

Let's just say there is/are poll(s) in the Hut (and were before this thread).

we appreciate your support

but still suggest you take the next bus out of town

because we dont need you see

staff policy of dismissing the idea of retired mod reenlistment = :(

Y TEH OLDBY HAT

I am FOR PANG.

1-0, you win!

Then this thread basically serves as a "GET YOUR ASS IN GEAR PLEASE" notice to staff and nothing more.

Good to know though that there is legitimate discussion going on instead of the usual "BUT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT IN THE HUT" type excuses which tend to be nothing more than blanket statements used to shut us up.

So it better not be one of those or I'll continue to make a huge stink

Maybe if MS would make a worthwhile console we wouldn't be having this problem. >=(

(Or we could just merge MW into the computing forums, then BM and I could mod it.)

I guess its true that no mods care enough about the xbox to mod it.

Its funny though because Animespot is probably the most heavily modded forum at gff. Mod more xbox fans instead of anime ones next time :[

The problem is GFF has this huge anti-Xbox bias, and so Xbox owners are by nature a completely different crowd than anyone currently on GFF staff. So if you continue this whole "Well they have to seem like they would be a good mod overall, as well as frequent the forum," staff will never find someone that meets both those conditions and/or support them fully.

It's just a single forum we're looking at, all that matters is that they can mod that single forum. It's not like you're having them sign a lifetime contract.

I don't know if a lurker even plays Xbox, but she's the most competent person I've seen mentioned for the job thus far.

I tried that idea already Tube, apparently all people who moderate one forum should be good enough to moderate all the other forums.

Fuck if I know why, though. Your reasoning is pretty much foolproof, but staff does not agree. ;_;

Oh shit imagine we had a plumber modding the sewers. This is pretty off topic but JUST IMAGINE it'd be pretty sweet and he'd have a sig with a wrench or something.

Anyway, besides Devo who would you guys suggest for a MW mod?

I pop in and have a look around, but hey I'm like a joke mod to begin with anyway. To me it just seems like the Halo related threads gather all the shit. It's like all the Wii related threads in the Warp Room. Except unlike the other gaming sections, the Window basically focuses on that one thing. Halo. So you get like, this massive collection of shit in one spot instead of being spread out. Like burning one ant with a magnifying glass instead of pouring petrol and lighting a match to burn down an entire suburb.

I think the problem with that is if people create a thread about some Halo news, they'll just get slammed by someone saying "WHY DIDN'T YOU PUT THIS IN THE ALREADY EXISTING HALO THREAD". But I think that since 80% of the forum's posts are Halo-related, separate threads about Halo stuff should be allowed. It would make it easier to take care of retarded tangents at least, and actually give posters topics to reply to instead of just one general Halo discussion.

Please shower again. :(

I support both Devo and Pang as mods. I guess I'm a dick, though.

Double Post:
WTF :mad:

I don't even own a current-gen console.

Thanks for the props though

Double Post:
The idea is, if the person is willing to mod one place but isn't good enough to mod everywhere else, then what right do they have to be a mod to begin with? It's not fair to the folks who are good enough to mod everywhere.

Also, since staff has to answer for this person's actions (I guess mods don't like pointing fingers at each other publically or demodding folks that don't work out) they want someone they can trust to be competent, which usually means being good enough to mod any forum.

In regards to OP: endless battle, nebulous opponent, etc.

Wait, what? How did I even get dragged into this shit? And when the fuck did I say anything like that?

As Mikey said, we're working on it. The issue was brought up six days ago and resulted in two threads, one of which has 108 replies (more than any other thread in the Hut since the restart). Most active mods took part in the discussions and voted on the polls. I'm sorry if we gave you the impression that we didn't give a damn, but believe me, this thread is only breaking down open doors.

Oh, and don't compare me with Minion as a mod. I'm not the one who vanished saying I "don't give a shit". And since you guys insist on bringing up the Concert Hall, bear in mind it's only second to Community Commons in terms of actvitiy, and gets about ten times as much traffic as MW does. I'm sure you'd fully appreciate how "superfluous" the modding is in there if I suddenly decided I don't give a damn either.

Wow, I get home from work and finally see a thread worth posting, not so much with the Window fiasco that has been going on basically ever since policenauts left.

Tails and I were the only ones back then to give a shit it seemed and now some other members have taken a liking the company and its games, so something MAY be done this time. Good. It can only get better if a new mod is appointed as is being discussed. I can't say who I would appoint, but the ones mentioned by Skills could do well. Its not up to me though, of course. =D

Oh and this is BZ(Bahamut Zero) by the way, since you can't tell by my Name, but the sig I suppose.

But Pang owns a Gamecube! Pang is obviously more qualified, therefore, for this lofty and important position.

Also, I played Halo, like, all the way to the end! I enjoyed playing that game and also I bought it legitimately! I am therefore qualified to mod a forum about Halo. For example, if someone made a thread in Microsoft's Halo about, say, drain cleaner, I'd know it didn't belong there, because there's no drain cleaner in Halo!

Pang feels Gearbox has received an unfair amount of the blame for Halo's clumsy PC port, which was still very enjoyable! Pang has significant and varied opinions on many Halo-related subjects! Pang doesn't know why everyone is so hostile to his declared candidacy! Pang suspects it has something to do with being an honest cop who isn't on the take!

Pang feels sad when people are mean to him! :(

I own an Xbox! 2 of them, in fact! Clearly I am more qualified than Pang because I actually own ALL THREE next gen consoles!

Come on now, lets be serious Pang. You're the last guy we need to fix this problem, get over it and move on.

Your comments in russ's journal entry on this subject say otherwise. Your name was brought up because you have said things on this subject that show you don't really give a shit.

That's good to know, like I've said above. It's nice to know now that a solution to the problem is being formulated and put into motion. It's a shame we didn't know before, so this thread didn't turn into a waste of time and effort on all our parts.

I didn't mean to imply you are as horrible a mod as Minion was. If you ask me, he belongs up there on the staff shitlist with people like Cain. I do, however, have a problem with your attitude, as do many others. The concert hall comment was made because it seems like all the staffers who "originate" (for lack of a better word) from there turn into huge jerks after they gain any sort of powers.

And I do believe I said the "but it doesn't get a lot of traffic" excuse wasn't a good one. We've all come to the conclusion that that should make the forum easier to moderate, not easier to ignore.

But the problem is that there are bad posts! I, too, dislike bad posts! I will get rid of them with massive efficiency! I fail to see the contradiction here.

Anyway if you own a PS2 this only proves you to be a huge Sony Fanboy that hates MS and wants them to fail and also you're a communist for the same reason.

Seriously, Pang. You're stalling progress here. Can we get a thread ban on this guy already?

EDIT: Pang has been thread banned, mission complete!

Thanks Skate.

Phew, now that this threat has been averted, I guess everyone can get back to, uhh, 'solving the problem' in this thread. (?)

Most of Aard's replies are shorter than that Devo, we should take what we can get.

Yeah, yeah, rolleyes. Serious business Status Report / Mod Hut leak: there have been three threads for adding potential new mods. The votes are currently at 94%, 50% and 10% (heh) in favour for each candidate. So if the 94% person accepts the position, there should be at least one new moderator soon. (shrug)

BM has a tendancy to jump into discussions about staff and just stir things up..I don't think we need any more of that, particularly.

You guys want a solution, right? So calm the hell down and wait for us to figure it out. It's been in discussion for longer than this thread has been in existence, as face already pointed out. You bitching in here is really just upping postcount.

Incidentally, Skills, I think it's kind of ironic that you're bitching about how bad moderators turn out when they were chosen specifically to mod the Concert Hall, yet you can't understand why we're reluctant to do the same for MW. From what I understand MW has an infinitely worse posting-level overall than the Hall, which means we should be doubly careful who we promote from there, no? Anyone we promote is automatically able to mod everything after the three month "testing" period--which is, by the by, simply a formality since no one has ever been demoted after their stint as a regular mod. You of all people should understand this, since you seem to be so against face and Minion.

I'm not saying it's the fault of the Hall, it's just a coincidence that two of the staffers I find/found most grating came from there. That's all. I'll retract that specific statement if it means people will drop it, as I never meant for that to become this big a deal.

I also don't see why moderators have to be promoted to super mods after 3 months, especially when all that's needed is someone to moderate one small section of gaming. You don't have to promote them to super mod. An exception can be made because moderation in the other forums is, for the most part, pretty well done. You don't need anyone to moderate other areas. The only thing that needs help is the Window.

So we mod them only to do MW, and leave them as the only staff member who's not an SMod? How fair is that?

Well, I suppose the idea is that we shouldn't all be sMods in the first place. On one hand, I can sort of agree with that, but it would be weird to be restricted to three forums after having been a sMod for half a year. I dunno, I guess it's something that can be discussed.

Oh, "fairness" is what tha't sall about? Ok, that makes more sense now.

However, it doesn't need to be fair either. The theoritical person in question should understand that they are only being brought on board to moderate the Window. It's not a regular staffer position you're filling. It's more like an emergency stopgap or something.

Sorta like those temps that get hired in the office only to fill out excel spreadsheets all day. Sure, they aren't full blown accountants but they get the work done and they understand that that's all they were hired to do.

Way to misinterpret things. If I didn't give a shit, why would I have commented?

I was surprised when I saw that entry because it made me think there had been a leak of some sort (hence the "Vegas" comment), as we had been discussing the issue in the Hut for days prior to that. I also objected to Devo's bitching as an efficient way of solving problems, but that's nothing new.

Okay, let's hear about all the horrible things I've done since I became a mod. What's wrong with my attitude, and who are the "many others"?

For the record: I didn't gain access through the Concert Hall. I was first added as a general purpose mod, with the Concert Hall only being a little bonus.

I only said that because the world "superfluous" was used regarding moderation in the Concert Hall. I wasn't trying to make MW sound like a non-issue, just saying the result might not be pretty if you remove the "superfluous". Yes, I get defensive.

Actually, I thought that the Vegas comment {}

was referencing the fact that the most recently active thread in MW was a thread for the game Rainbow Six: Vegas, and that you felt like MW was not active enough to be of any concern to the serious business at hand elsewhere on the boards. That was how I interpreted it.

As far as wanting to find someone who would behave responsibly {in a manner befitting a moderator}, recent activities by a staff member illustrate the point that no one on staff is perfect and you will find no one "perfect" to moderate MW. I personally think {not that my opinion carries much weight, nor should it} that Shin or Devon would be ideal candidates for moderating MW because they know the subject matter, own the consoles, and are what I would consider good, respectable members here.

I am a mod for the people!

like pang would have been ;_;

or lurker

Consider it this way:

We only hire super mods, because we only want people considered to be good enough to be super mods on the team. The first few months is more or less a trial period to make sure that someone doesn't go and, like, fuck everything up I guess.

There's no such thing as "only good enough to mod MW".

Well maybe you don't need every moderator to become a full out supermod. I wouldn't see the problem with having subforum frequenters only be a moderator of that particular forum, and possibly be a s.mod later on. But a little second-tier moderator section with certain people in certain forums might be an ok idea.

The reason why everyone was made a supermod way back when is because people like me bitched that they were constantly getting fed problems in #gfchat and they couldn't take care of them because they were restricted to their couple of assigned forums. Back then we kept assigned forums and only used supermod abilities to take care of obvious problems when nobody else was around. Nowadays, forum assignments seem to be a little looser than before with people just going with wherever they're feeling ilke for the time.

Vegas is a sort of codeword for mods that originated a few years back with a thread that we had in the hut. Sadly enough, it was the first thing that came to my mind when I read your post and before I read face's comment.

As someone who started out as a regular moderator before all mods were bumped to supers, I can say that I think this would raise our efficiency level quite a bit. Knowing that a person is responsible for a specific task makes it seem less like an insurmountable object. It's like making a list of chores. If you know you have certain things to do, it can help you get them done. Thinking something like "Well, I should probably clean house" isn't going to give you much motivation. Sure, the mod team has forums they're responsible for by title, but not in practical nature. I think reducing the amount of responsibility would increase productivity.

Put plainly, I think some of the overall spam problem can be reduced if we go back to the old moderation system. There's no real need for all the super moderators we have, in my opinion. People have made the argument that a supermod or an admin needs to be present all hours of the day just-in-case-something-bad-happens. I suppose to a certain extent that may be true, but it seems to me like an exaggeration of the potential problems.

I don't think that if there is a period between 4 and 6 am during which there is no supermod or admin present, that a major catastrophe will occur. But even if it does, then we know there are people who are primarily responsible for it.

Well, I think it would help if we actually posted the moderator assignments, no one really knows who does what right now. I mean, I know I follow the computing forums and Nintendo, but it's not written down anywhere, and it needs to be.

To be perfectly honest, if we explicitly assigned a current mod to MW, even if we weren't all super mods, I bet that person would stop moderating it shortly after.

No, no, that's true, I understand that part.

BUT

If I don't consider someone good enough to be a full moderator, I don't want them in charge of even one forum. The rest of the mod team may feel different, but that's my opinion.

although I am also interested in the idea of dedicated forum mods, I'd be a lot more comfortable with there being a small group at first, instead of just one. Look, I bet out of the current staff, only three would be willing to bump themselves back down to normal mod. And if we only add one mod who will stay just a mod, they might understand at first that that's the arrangement, but as time goes on and new super mods need to be added, they will get antsy that they are not getting promoted. why lie? people do like fairness.

although the idea of regular or 'temp' mods is interesting, personally I can't see staff overlooking the 'needs to be a good overall mod' requirement.

also, I want pang back as staff. right now.

The reason we prefer to choose "overall" moderators instead of ones who specialize in certain forums is due to moderator turnover.

For instance, let us say that NYRSkate, RacinReaver and I all step down for various, external reasons. This would leave a small gap, one which might require filling, depending upon GFF's activity.

In this case, the remaining moderators would look to the newest among them and see if they've shown enough capacity to "graduate" into wider responsibilities. Today's moderators might be tomorrow's Admins.

So, in choosing new mods, yes, we often have an idea of where we'd like them to begin. But we also hold the hope that he or she will mature into the role and expand their duties to the entire board. There's no truly good reason to limit an experienced moderator to only one or two forums.

Understand that when we take on new staff members, we do put them where there's a direct need for moderation. We expect that they'll be reasonably eager to prove themselves worthy of the gift of authority. But more importantly, we want that person to be well-adjusted enough that, should the need arise, we'll be able to depend upon him/her for more than just tending to one or two niche forums.

Believe me. I wish there was a quick, simple solution to the Microsoft's Window. Out of sheer curiosity, I looked in there and yes, I agree, it needs help. And I did take care of a few things. But I know it's not enough. Frankly, I don't know squat about the X-Box, so unless a comment is 100% blatant spam, I'm not the best person to make judgements upon that forum and its participants.

Yet in choosing someone to tend to Microsoft's Window, we realize that it's shortsighted to expect that person to oversee one forum and one forum only, forever. This is why we look for the "overall" candidate long before we consider the "specialist".


I'd also like to say that Pang was asked to be a moderator last year. For a brief while, he accepted. Then, with little reason given, he had a change of heart and stepped down from his duties. While we didn't understand why, we let him do as he wished. As far as we understood, he couldn't reconcile participating amongst the "establishment" while several uncited issues went unchecked. Conflicts of interest, I gather.

Now, to see him jockeying for moderation priveleges in Microsoft's Window, I am greatly amused. Not that I am thinking it'd be great to have Pang on staff again. I contemplate his rejoining and am only met with visions of his inevitable ennui and subsequent re-retirement. The entire suggestion seems ultimately pointless. I only laugh at his current argument in the sense that a parent might laugh at a young child who threatens to run away from home, a parent who knows it's an idle threat and that the child will be back as soon as it is cold and hungry.

As soon as the political winds shift at GFF, so too will Pang's interest in cleansing Microsoft's Window of its current malaise.

I really don't see the problem with having a few single-forum mods. With only a single forum to moderate, they'd be more focused on their modding and at far less risk of the all too common staff burnout. It's always a shame when a good poster gets modded and stops posting so much.

I'm modding MW now, and another mod is in talks.

If any mod wants to continue this discussion, then go for it.

Until then: Closed.