Fragdoll Thread
 

Frag Doll Link

To those unfamiliar with Fragdolls, they are a group of girl gamers working with Ubisoft to promote female gaming. This year there is an election process going on at Gametrailers.com to pick a new fragdoll.

I think its an interesting idea. I personally would like to see more girl gamers.

What do other people think of this idea?

Coming from a community like 1UP where most gamer girls just exploit their femininity, I've grown a tendency to not support these kind of gender-exclusive groups.

It sounds selfish, but I'm not a big fan of them or any other "Girl Power" group around. Guy, girl, fish, whatever, please just play the game and shut up.

Then you do not want to see more "Frag Dolls".

The Frag Dolls, as you pointed out, are a marketing gimmick.

"GURLZ DAT PLAY GAMES LOL"

If they were really a "Gaming Clan" as they just love to advertise, you would see them on the CPL or MLG circuits. Not at UbiSoft PR events and the like. They're actually doing more harm than good in the process.

All female gaming groups are cool, but the majority of them fall into the "WE'RE GIRLS AND WE PLAY GAMES LOL WE KICK UR ASS BOYZ!!1 ACCEPT US!" groups where it becomes less about acceptance and more about exclusion by means of their own actions.

Faux girl gamers with shitty art to boot? COUNT ME IN

(seriously, I don't care at all, and I think it's kinda dumb)

i wonder what a girl's take would be on this.

personally, the girl gamers ive met have not been the crazy "feminist" "girl power" types. unfortunately, despite that ubisoft might say however, i do end us seeing these girls morea as booth babes than gamer girls.

i was also wondering, what would you guys propose as a suitable means to promote female gaming?

I wonder how Devo's application went...

There's no need to. The margin between male and female gamers is smaller than it's ever been. There are plenty of women out there playing video games and this has never been a secret.

I miss the early days, when every blog entry or whatever on their site was about UbiSoft.

"Today I played UBISOFT's Tom Clancy's Rainbow Splinter Ghost Terrorist Party, developed by UBISOFT, it was so cool! I played against some guys and totally won. I also read somewhere that UBISOFT is making a sequel, it'll be EVEN BETTER, because it's developed by UBISOFT. After I played UBISOFT's new game, I went and got some lunch, it was an UBISOFT burger. It was so coo-UBISOFT UBISOFT UBISOFT UBISOFT"

god, i love you infernal monkey, you silly silly son of a blueberry

Why is gaming the only activity where attractive girls are maligned for their looks? Female actors, singers and even tennis players can get by on looks alone, talent not required. This it not the case with gaming it seems, even when the girls are good.

I'm curious about this, encourage them on what exactly?
"No one really even cares if you play or not since it really only comes down to good looks and even then you're better as a prop"?

I mean, I understand the ideal behind it and all, but the enactment just doesn't sound like it's sending a very positive message about gaming itself.

Devo - just out of curiousily, what is the application process for fragdolls like? i guess its not really applicable to me, but im still curious.

I thought this thread would have something to do with Fraggles from FraggleRock.

I am sorely disappointed, sirs ;_;

Oh. Girl Gamers are (in my opinion) just for PR. And to sell some magazines...

"In this Magazine, Lindy says what she thinks of Halo!"
"omgirlgamers fap fap"

Yes. Some of them do start chanting "fap" =( It'd be refreshing to see the industry more half-and-half. Hell, I remember a few years ago, if you could type well and used the internet, you were quite the nerd. Nowadays it's the norm. But the internet is moreso of a necessity than gaming.

Every Friday, Microsoft begs to differ.

You are the problem. You, for some reason or another, fail to recognize that you are, in fact, accepted.

In fact, you're not even a minority. So calm down.

Wow. Stop right there please.

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ubisoft...oll-170939.php

alkaline - I understand where you are going with your argument but you are being 1) much too offensive and 2) far too close minded. I dont care if you are associated with 1up or IGN or Nintendo, you should respect other people's opinion and be a lot more tactful.

On one hand I have Devo telling me about her experiences and thoughts while all the males responding to this thread are bringing her down. You are feeding into Devo's argument. And personally alkaline, I dont think one internet article is a suitable defense for the rise of female gaming.

I initially started this thread as a means of discussing the given topic, not to turn it into a sexist and belligerent name-calling.

You really couldn't be farther off from the truth.

Wow, you've convinced me.

Double Post:
Also, I like how alkaline thinks his opinion is more valid than Devo's because he read an article about it on the internet and Devo only has life experience to validate her point.

Hey, if Devo wants to help set back the Womens rights movement a couple of more decades, then she can be my guest. I won't stand in your way anymore :)

How is it exactly that Devo is setting back the women's rights movement? By asking for fair treatment? Oh right, that's logical in the mind of someone with a questionable grasp of logic.

Meh, I have to agree with the sentiment that for the time being marketing girl gamers seems to be more of a marketing gimmick. Until we get used to seeing a girl playing games (until it becomes a norm) it will remain a gimmick.

WHAT DO YOU PEOPLE WANT, GIRLS TO REPRESENT 75% OF GAMERS OR SOMETHING? SHIT SON.

And that's just in our GFF sessions...

Apparently this thread has revealed the true colors of the male gaming population at GFF. Its a sad sight to see :(

Its strange to see guys who still cling onto female discrimination, a vestige of a long line of petty male dominance that has no proper place in society and is constantly being equilibriated. You dont have to be a feminist or an egalitarian to understand the times or changes.

You also don't have to be a rude chauvinist male to get your point across. If your argument consists solely of denigrating the opposition and using internet articles and sources, then you are using poor means and insufficient evidence.

Alkaline, while you make think it is clever to pick on Devo, you are revealing a bad side of yourself. Devo is only defending her argument and she is certainy not taking the Women's rights Movement backwards. That is a silly clain that you do not back with any evidence.

Alkaline's argument regarding the womens right movement is that the fragdolls got where they are because of their looks and that this is wrong. The point of the womens rights campaign was that the fat ugly dyke would get a go.

If UbiSoft were serious about sponsering a group of skilled female gamers, then it would include the ugly as well as the hot. Instead UbiSoft chose to sponser a group of female gamers who we want to fuck. The girls themselves arn't to blame, they're doing themselves proud as Devo is pointing out but that doesn't change the fact that they are a marketing ploy from UbiSoft.

Plus they're shallow and snobish cunts.

I met them at the private party of Ubisoft last year at E3.

Translation: They wouldn't give me the time of day.

Oh you were there too?

I'm not really sure why the hell we need to put girl gamers on a pedestal as is like they're some kind of rarity and MUST HAVE SPOTLIGHT OR THEY'LL WITHER AND DIE LIKE FRAGILE FLOWERS WTF.

They're just like us. I've had my ass kicked by girls in games before on XBOX Live, on MMOs, and on fighting games. Some of my best competition has been girls, especially when it came to Soul Calibur games. They deserve their recognition and respect, but they don't need a pedestal so fapfapfap time becomes the standard.

What?

No, I didn't spend the night with them, I talked to them a little bit and what I got out of this was my impression. Maybe they were that way since they thought I was hitting on them since most of the guys I knew tried desperately, but I wasn't and they just brushed me off like I was trash.

They're just a couple of girls playing games. Big deal.

Nah, I learned that after, when I got back to Montreal. One of my friend who's an Assistant Lead told me that he and another guy tried to it on them. He already has a girlfriend. What a prick.

But if they acted that way because guys kept trying to 'bed' them, they should already be experts on how to deal with it. It's not that often that you get average-to-good-looking girls who play games. Personnally, they're not my types. But for some, the fact that they have vaginas is more than enough.

Oh yeah, sorry about that devo. I didn't realize it was you.

Can you people please proofread your thread titles before you post them? I've seen this "hread" in the new posts list 500 times already.

I agree lots of guys are in denial about it. Lots of my friends still make a big deal when they say they've found a girl playing a game. However if what you say about the female portion in games is true then I sure as hell don't see it in the games I play (CoD2, WC3, BF2 etc...).

Which I believe lends itself to a cycle where then the males on the server are even more convinced that females don't play games, which generates more negativity towards girls who do play games which then causes more girls to cloak their gender online. But perhaps if the female population made themselves more visible then maybe the fact that there is a significant female population that plays games might dawn on more males.

Who even cares about the "Fragdolls" anyway? It's lame. Just because they are somewhat attractive girls playing games, they have to form a whole special group over it? Pretty stupid. Maybe if they are actually good at games, then fine, but I've heard they aren't even any good. Attractive + Plays some games doesn't really mean shit to me. Hot chicks watch movies too. I don't see any "Hot Chick Movie Watchers Club".

That's not the same thing, because there's not a public perception in place already about watching movies. When people think "plays games," the gut reaction is to think D&D, mom's basement, pocket protectors, and fingers laden with cheetos-dust.

Computers and gaming, despite being a much more open thing now than it was in, say, the mid eighties, still has heavy stereotypes that are set on it. I'm not trying to take sides here, but this really isn't anything like watching movies, since they've been widely considered genderless activities since their creation.

Yggdrasil - I dont think it is particularly fair to blame girls for the negativity direct towards them. You cannot blame women for assuming cloaked roles because they only mean to protect themselves from hostility. While you blame this on the cycle women created, it is hard to assume the role of the minority. Most of the points I have seen this far in the thread have been male-centered and do not take the feelings of women into account.

Certainly, I will admit that the last dozen posts have gone off the topic of the "Fragdolls" and have focused more on female gamers. I understand on one hand we have male gamers who encourage female gamers to play but see them being the problem within the gaming community and creating the cycle of hostility. While on the other hand, Devo, Russ and I believe that the male gamers were hostile first resulting in the female obscurity in gaming.

To those males, I have to say that with most females gamers I have encountered, all have experienced sexisms towards them. The hostility directed towards women is not a joke or an illusion. In fact, I have talked with my friends about this issue. In many ways, the male hostility is an extension of male dominance. Many male gamer friends of mine are ashamed to loose to their female counterparts. These individuals also happen to be the same guys who hate loosing to women in sports and any sort of sports and consequently tell sexist jokes in their free time.

At the same time, I understand the argument on the otherside. While women are afraid of being ridiculed, you must band together and muster courage. Your combined strength can overcome name calling and hostility. You dont have to put yourself on center-stage and become a company's spokemodel of exclusively female gamers. Create a respectable clan and show the male community that female gamers are just as good. Change is not a rapid process. Just as women's sports have emerged as a respectable franchise over the past several years, it will take strong, progressive female gamers to break the boundaries set. I must admit, I myself see the fragdolls as a "marketing gimmick" although I would definitely like to see the spotlight on more female gamers.

Really, this plea is too the users responding to the thread. Carefully read the posts before responding and take into consideration the feelings and perspective of the opposite side. It will lead to less tension. This thread is meant to be a discussion and while there is no write "solution" or manner to discuss the topic, there is certainly a neccessity to adhere to etiquette.

That's my point, dude. Why does there need to be a special group of female gamers? It makes no sense. I know movies as a whole are not generally gender specific, but movie genres are. You think of romance movies, that's for women. You think of action movies, that's for men. You don't see groups of hot women action movie watching groups, or macho men romance movie watcher groups. Why does there need to have a group of chicks form some kind of group of female game players as if they are some kind of special skills. If they were highly skilled, fine, I'm all for it. But I've heard they are not even any good, so the whole thing is completely pointless other then to say "hey look, we're a bunch of chicks who play games". LAME.