Illegal Downloads aka the Hong Kong of the Internet
 

We seem to do this in mass on GFF, so I made a thread about the whole issue. Do you illegally download (which would probably reveal what you think about the issue)? Is it on the rise or decline? What is most downloaded?
Enough with the questions, consider this a all inlcusive discussion on the topic; put news, opinion and whatever else you think about the topic here.

I personally download illegaly, quite a bit in fact. Though I have tried to wean myself off the illegal programs with freeware and OSS software, it hasn't been completed yet; in fact I have never paid for software that wasn't a game. I think downloading whatever you please is not morally wrong, the whole debate was caused by overactive intellectual property holders. Someone most likely paid for the item in question down the line and decided to share it and spare the people the expense of paying for the item. In >99% of the cases, I would have never considered buying or even trying the software/media, in fact the commercial programs that I have tried have encouraged me to use more freeware software. I wouldn't even use Windows if it wasn't for the fact that most of the software I use (namely older games) wouldn't work on Linux.
Though the RIAA and MPAA seem to state that file sharing is on the decline (meaning they're winning the war), I, in fact think it's far more common and easier than it ever was. Google makes it far too easy to find a direct link (or torrent) to the file, it's like we all live in Hong Kong and can find whatever we like if we go down the right street.
What is download and why we download is a question that peers into the logic of almost every internet user, broadband wouldn't be as near as successful if it was only used for gaming and faster page loading. Really, until recently you couldn't even acquire motion pictures online, most of the larger (meaning around 700MB and higher) items you can aquire online are shared games, CDs, DVDs and operating systems. It seems though that the RIAA and MPAA are blindly prosecuting the wrong targets, those who download most are going undectected while numerous people who don't or can't download get the shaft by the RIAA. Scare tactics will never work, until they monitor the source and destination of all the internet traffic (and act on that information), they'll never see any reduction of downloads.
Right now only two programs I'm using are not "licensed", Windows XP Professional and Diskeeper 10 Server Enterprise. Otherwise all my other stuff currently active is legal, all my other shady stuff is dormant at the moment.
They'll have to learn, free is an unbeatable price. If you can get it easily for free, you'll get customers in large amounts. The fact that none of this stuff requires a physical presense in any stage of the transfer makes downloading so popular.

I'm still in high school, live at home, and have about 1000 downloaded albums, about 30% of which are out-of-print. 100% of the money I get goes towards buying records, so I feel no guilt whatsoever downloading music. I would buy it if I had the money, and I probably will buy it eventually.

A lot of the programs which I have downloaded are not stuff even remotely within my possible budget(SolidWorks, ProE, Reason 3.0, Cakewalk Dimension, etc). If I did not download them, I would most likely never buy them.

Most of the games I download I eventually buy after trying them out.

As for music, I have a considerable collection, but a lot of it is relatively hard to find stuff that gets passed around in the Concert Hall. Because it is not mainstream music, it is more expensive. I try to keep my eyes open for good deals on these rare finds for purchase, as I like to have original CDs, but this doesn't happen too often.

I apply this same reasoning to a lot of the anime and manga that I download.

These are the justifications I give for doing what I do in regards to downloading.

Downloading music has always made me feel bad.

I think it's wrong to download music because it takes money away from the people who made it. I especially feel bad when I'm downloading music that was made by an unpopular or less than rich artist. It makes me feel like I'm killing off their career because I'm not actually giving them money to fund their career.

I say this but look at me now. I'm on a VGM site where I constantly download VGM music. Not to mention, go on Direct Connect and have a field day. Just call me Hippo because I'm a hypocrite. :(


The only time I do (the don't was a mistake eariler) feel okay about people downloading and sharing music is when it's a rare soundtrack that nobody can just go and buy. When there actually isn't an option to buy it anymore.

The RIAA is an illegal price fixing cartel that shouldn't even exist under US law. They use intimidation and other scare tactics to settle out of court where they know they wouldn't win because they gather info on downloaders by illegal means, and most often they turn out to be people who HAVEN'T done anything. Do I feel guilty about stealing money from them? I think I'd feel guilty if I started letting them steal MY money.

I download mostly everything.

Applications/Software - I've only ever bought a couple software titles. Every other time I download it becuase it's usually way out of my price range. Adobe Illustrator CS2? Yeah right, I'm still in highschool.

Movies - Same deal. Seeing as an anime dvd (which only contains about 4 sessions) is priced at about $30, it would cost me about 200$ for a season of anime... no thanks.

Music - I download all my music. First of all, it is perfectly legal (I live in Canada), and it's conveniant. A lot of the music I listen to is foreign (Japanese), and obtaining the legitimate redbook-CDs is difficult. When I can, I buy an album that I really like, becase I think that the artist has deserved my money.

While I understand that downloading illegaly is "wrong" and illegal, I justify it thusly: I am aware of what is available to me, and I have limited funds. If I want to use a program/listen to music/watch a movie, and am perfectly able to, I'm not going to let the issue of legality get in the way. "I want to listen to "X" artist, and can do so in about 10 minutes, as soon as I download the album. Great... too bad It's "wrong"." As far as I'm concerned, I'm going to listen to the damn music.

The problem I see with that kind of thinking is that it's actually hurting the artist. When we download something music from a lesser known and artist then it's hurting them a lot more than an artist like Usher.

My main problem with downloading music is that I think "Is the artist I love going to be able to make a new album if I'm not funding their career". When I think if that, it makes me not want to download music....but I still do anyway. Yep...soniclover the hypocrite.

When I download songs from CDs only availible in Japan I am not hurting the artist over there. I was not the intended market and chances are the CD I download is from a dealer that already paid for the CD from the artist's publisher. When the program/song was published with a non-US market in mind, I see absolutely no problem downloading it, I was never meant to buy it so why am I hurting them by downloading and using it?

Well, yes, you do have a point there. I guess my post was more implied to an artist's music in the region you are living in.

I guess if it's music from a different region then it's doesn't effect the artist as much.

It works differently in Canada. Downloading music is free and legal. However, when you buy blank CD-Rs, you are charged a levy, which goes to music artists nationwide. They (the artists) seem to be happy with it, and so am I.

I used to use a lot of pirate software when I was younger, and now don't use any. I still get some songs which I'm not entitled to, but buy albums and songs as well. I often download things, evaluate them, and decide whether or not I want to buy that artist's stuff. Same goes for movies. I'll download movies that aren't available to rent (or sometimes just because I want to), but being a stickler for quality transfers and a sucker for commentaries, I buy the DVDs of the movies I like.

This is the mirror opposite of my thinking. If a song is readily available, buy it. If it is not readily available through legal means, then you couldn't have bought it in the first place. If my local stores or ITMS doesn't carry a song/album I want, then I consider downloading it.

Wow, that's a nice little system there. Everyone wins.

Um...

My whole debate on this is....

You can now get High Speed Internet where you can connect to the internet (thus download) at speeds so insane (i personally have a 2.2g speed) so i can download at on average, 100kbps.

What other purpose would ISP's give out so much speed, if it wasnt to download/upload....would you really need it that fast to send a document from the UK to the US for example...? Highly unlikey is the most respected answer!

If it was really that easy for the RIAA to obtain info on who downloads from where, who and waht, we would be fucked over a barrel by now...i have been downloading music and other variable formats for best part of 8 years...

Now i am either downloading stuff that the RIAA are not concerned about, which i highly doubt....Or it is because the RIAA are nothing but oversensuos idiots that go out of their merry way of life to try and gain money the easy way, as Darklink pointed out....

Scare tactics have never stopped me from doing what i do....And i have to point out at this point that i do buy Music and DVD's still that would keep the business ticking over, so for me...am i guilty for downloading the stuff i do....Like F*** am i....

As i have said, i have done it now for 8 years or so, and im sure i will be doing it for the next 8 or more....

Lets face the bare facts here....

You can purchase CD Burners, DVD Burners....CD's to burn data and such on...DVD's to burn data and such on Stupid sized HD's (i think 10gig HD would suffice the norm)...And that also spreads to equipment you can get for home use as well as PC use.....So come people (and the RIAA) if it was "Illegal" to download music and burn music and other data to CD...I think you should be starting with those outlets that sell the above stuff that clearly encourages people like us to do it....Cos for me anyway....If i didnt have a DVD Burner, DVD's to burn on... I guess i wouldnt be able to burn music ...And if i didnt have an exceptional sized HD (more than 1 actually) i guess i wouldnt be able to store msuci and other medias as i do....

So who really is to blame overall? us for downloading the media....or the stores for making it more accetable bu supplying equipment that enables to store more and download more..Faster and to burn stuff for our own pleasure & Others??????

That's guilt by association, which doesn't really work here.
Blaming this on retail chains that sell equipment which facilitates illegal downloading is much like placing the blame for the 9/11 attacks on Boeing. Just because something can be used for an illegal purpose doesn't make the thing itself illegal. Blaming companies who sell computer equipment is simply asinine.


From what I can understand, they go right to the realm of extortion. That is, they often don't even provide proof that someone has downloaded something illegally. All they need to do is pronounce someone as an untouchable illegal downloader to leave that victim in the position of needing to pay for expensive settlement or needing to pay expensive legal fees (while losing the battle anyway).

Then how is one supposed to obtain the album legally?
If an album can't even be bought anymore, downloading isn't so much of an issue, as, again, there is no way to legally obtain the album.

(Please tell me I didn't make that Mistake.)

Um guys, I meant to put doinstead of that don't in my post about downloading rare albums. :doh:

Sorry for the confusion but hey...mistakes happen. :juggler:

I'll go edit it now.

On the note of ill-begoten software, Microsoft has released a new WGA program, it will check your Windows install for authenticity and will spam you if it's illegal. The workaround is to disiable automatic updating and do a manual update. Just uncheck any WGA tools listed in the High Priority Updates (I even told Windows Update to not list it), and you'll be home free, for now. Like I've said before if most of the programs I use required Windows, I'd be using something else right now. Of course when has nagging ever got people to stop using Windows without a vaild key?

How did you do that? My copy of windows is genuine, but I have a feeling that this WGA thing is Not Good.

It'll be in the High Priority Update list in the Custom Update list. But if you have Automatic Updates enabled (as the Windows bitches to you if you don't have it on), you might already have it installed. I'll Supply you with a screenshot soon.

Incase you hadn't noticed, speedy networks, large harddrives, and CD/DVD burners can be used for a lot more than illegaly spreading music. Just becuase you don't use them for anything else doesn't mean that others don't. Let's say I'm a game developer, and I just created a bunch of raw .wav files for my upcoming game, and I need to send them to another department across the country. I could either send them across the internet, or mail them on a DVD. Both of these options are high-speed/high capacity methods, but are perfectly legal. I'm not pirating or illegaly destributing anything, I'm simply transporting my own personal material. (MagicumMusica, you may also want to double-check your network speed measurements [g, m, etc])

Oh. Does that mean if I careen down the road at 150km/h, I'm not doing anything wrong? I mean, the construction crew made the road so long and strait, so it must be their fault that I'm speeding. Right guys?

An interesting tidbit about windows updates: If you're running an pirated copy of XP, you can still get automatic updates without running automatic update. Check out this and this.

Do I download? Yes. Is most of the stuff I download illegal to? In general, no. Most of my commonly-available music collection I actually legally own, be it in LP, Cassette, or CD (no 8-Tracks, however). When I download it's either Symphonic Stuff, Wind Ensemble stuff (good luck finding CDs of that), or VGM (not available in America). And the stuff of that that I truly love I often will import to get it legally (example: I have 3 albums by the Tokyo Kosei Wind Symphony - stunning group, I'd buy their entire discography except that it's like 200 albums and they're all $20 apiece to import from Japan)

On the topic itself: Is it illegal to download (copyrighted) music? Of course. Should it be illegal? Of course. Does it help the economy? In my opinion yes. Examples of artists that I first heard through downloading and have ended up buying: Lifehouse, Tokyo Kosei Wind Symphony, Dave Matthews Band, and every piece of VGM I own (that's just a start; there are more as well). Piracy gets music spread around, which in the end is beneficial to the artist.

Downloading mp3's is just like tape trading. And god knows how many now legendary artists got their start through that. If the artist is serious, people hearing the music is what matters to them anyway.

What if the artist is seriously greedy?

Then they're not going to be too happy :(

Then they've sold out and will start to produce music for money. As with movies, the quality tends to sour at that point and so does the sales...

Was that URL meant to go somewhere?

It was cracked already, too unless they've put out another new version in the last couple days.

Windows.Genuine.Advantage.Validation.v1.5.526.0.CR ACKED-ETH0

I don't feel too guilty downloading movies, I watch them in the theater anyway because I like the effect you get there, and I will buy the DVD anyway for the extra features. I then delete the movie from my computer.

I download on the princible that it takes for-flippin-ever to get stuff over here.

Take for example Erueka Seven (the us dub), I don't even think that will air over here (It might after FMA but who the hell knows in the crazy world of UK anime licencing?) So that's why I download that.

Also, Music I download usaly stems from Game music and also byond that stuff that's not easily obtainable.

To be fair, the only program I downloaded illegaly is photoshop, most of the expesive crap doesn't matter due to having good-as/Better freewhere alternitives, but Photoshop > GIMP (Gimp had a horrible habbit of croupting everything I did with it, also the path creation sucks something awful).

I download illegally, though not all the time. Sometimes I do it to try something new out, or because something is very hard to find and expensive. Otherwise, I do try to get the legit copy, and often I'll look for sites that have them discounted, academic stores are awesome!

If a device has legimate legal uses, then it cannot be at fault if the user performs illegal activities with it. I believe Sony or some other company tried to use that excuse about Xerox, but it failed to hold up in court.

For me, it matters how good something is for me to warrant buying it.

Like the way they wanted you to pay for Winrar just so you don't have an annoying pop-up that says "time expired, go buy this!''. I don't think that's worth purchasing the service for.

The whole issue I'm having with this is that many people will easily download something and not feel remorse. It makes me think that people will go to the very limits that they can. We know it's wrong but we still do it because it's free, easy, and convenient.

Sometimes I wonder, if you could kill somebody with a single mouse click, and not get caught...how many people would be dead right now?

I download plenty, but that is pretty much restricted to just music now, and even with those I'll buy an actual album every now and then (the most recent being the Halo 2 OST, Volume 2). Whatever games I downloaded and still have, I don't really play or distribute anymore. (Unless you want to count emulation, but that's a whole ball game of its own.) The only movies I have are ones that I've bought. As for the music, my reasoning is nothing new. Much of the VGM I have probably doesn't even exist as an actual soundtrack. Or if it does, it's probably import and so they charge me an arm and a leg for it. I'd be more than flat broke if I had to pay for all the VGM I have.

Um, you misrad me i think...im not blaming no fucker!

Double Post:
Im sorry, clearly downloading at high speeds is risking peoples lifes...i was nto aware of this, thankyou for this piece of useless info

They're technically not losing money from me (artists / software publishers), as if I can't download and album or peice of software I want, I just forget about it or look for an alternative. I wouldn't buy it. I have only paid for one peice of software ever. I've never paid for any peice of music. The piracy calculator (I have long since lost the link, sorry) put my collection in the thousands of dollars.

When I think about it, I don't really feel bad about it either.

But with the shareware/donationware stuff you aren't supposed to think about it as getting rid of a pop-up. You are supposed to evaluate whether the application is good, and that you would want to support the developers for their efforts. Do you use Winrar? Then you should pay for it. It's *not* just to kill the pop-up, the pop-up is just to get you to realize that you should pay the developers. It seems it failed to do so.

Double Post:
That makes a lot of sense since all laws must be safety-related, otherwise they have no value. :rolleyes:

Yes, like I said before. We know something we're doing is wrong but we do it anyway. This is the same kind of situation when you don't pay artists for their music.

I just never wanted to pay for it. I didn't want to spend money on it when I can just bypass the pop-up and not pay. I guess that's the real problem here. Nobody ever wants to pay when they don't have to.

Some do. I mean, otherwise there would be no commercial software. It's unfortunate that regardless of the quality of the product or how much use it is to an individual, some people just don't feel like the provider of this product deserves their money.

You missed the point entirely. Go back and read my post more thoroughly.

I fixed the URL, this is a very new WGA utility, it'll just show a popup at logon if you have automatic updates enabled (it'll install itself). Afterwards it'll show a icon next to the clock reminding you to get Genuine Windows.

When I think of how much Music I've gotten over torrents over the years, it's shocking.

I remember, I got scared when I first started because I thought I would get caught. I heard all of these stories about individuals getting sued and whatnot. It seriously scared me.

3 Years later...

I don't know! I download, but most of the time it's just to see if I want to spend money on the legit item, or because I can't buy it otherwise. In those cases, if it's OOP I have no problem downloading at all. In fact, about 95-99% of my collection is legit...

That said, I am mainly an uploader. While, there's certain things I won't share I mostly stick with Anime, VGM and otherwise OOP music.

Hmm, I mostly download mp3, and it's only vgm or classical. I never care about MTV or pop music. I actually dont want to download if I could buy the original one, but for some reasons, VGM is not a really everyday music other people than us would listen to, it's totally non-existant to non-gamers community. The price for the albums also gross, the VGM publisher wont give license to local recording label to reduce the price.

I buy bootlegs games too, not because I want to support piracy. It's because the price is just too outrageus for people in developing countries. Price of one legal super commercial software equals to a month of labour salary here.

I only illegally download mp3s and the occasional over-expensive software.

RIAA thinks illegal downloading is taking away potential sales from music stores... I disagree. I think many downloaders are just so dirt poor and/or stingy that they wouldn't buy albums regardless of the availability of an illegal online alternative. Everyone knows cd prices are inflated; most of it's crap and not worth the $15 in the store, much less the $0.99/song you get charged online. Considering the fact that the artists themselves get only a small percentage of music sale revenues, I have no personal qualms about downloading.

I beleive the "illegal downloading" amounts to free advertising. I have yet to see any evidence that suggests that "illegal downloading" cuts into any company's profits in any way. In fact, it seems to be the other way around.

Most of the time, I download in order to sample the product.