E3 2013: "Xbox, turn on PS4 so I can actually play games"
 

It's that time of year again. For us to watch the painfully bad Press Conferences and to see games that will either bring us to tears that they were so bad, or move us to tears that they are so good.

To start off the thread, let's look at a few upcoming games:

DuckTales Remastered: Side-by-Side Comparison Amazon Level

(Good to hear Alan Young reprising Scrooge) Game looks amazing.

Halo Spartan Assault Trailer

(Could be best game on Earth, why lie?)

Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain

Arkham Origins Trailer

That's just a taste. Post things you're looking forward to and discussion on the PS4 and Xbox ONE (I suppose also on the Wii Umad) over the next while for upcoming gaming goodness.

Spartan Assault is Microsoft's attempt to get anyone interested in Windows Phone. And maybe I'll care about Phantom Pain when we see something substantive about the gameplay besides writhing on hospital floors.

Supposedly Nintendo is recalling the Wii U Basic during the middle of the month. Potentially eliminating that model and dropping the price of the Deluxe. Would be something they would talk about at their special E3 Nintendo Direct. If so, bring on the Wii U Ambassadorship. I'll take free games for a console that I have (inexplicably) been very happy with so far.

I'm not holding my breath for a Wii U ambassador program, but if one happens it would be pretty sweet. Not sure what games they'd give out, though - the Virtual Console list of games is still pretty small.

Honestly, the only things i'll really be interested in are waiting to see if we get Layton vs. Wright localized sometime this year, maybe a new Kingdom Hearts game, and keep an eye out for cool new IPs. Since i have no intention of getting a PS4 or an Xbone at or anywhere near launch, i'm hoping to see some good support for the PC.

Kind of moot since the whole point of the 3DS Ambassador program was that we were getting new Virtual Console games for free before they even hit the Shop (if at all).

If we get Layton vs Wright localized, then it will probably be like what they are doing with PW5. Phoenix Wright 5: Dual Destinies is being released, however Capcom has decided that it will sell better as a "Digital Download Only" model and will not be releasing a physical copy (unless that has miraculously changed in the past few days). The rage is already in full force on the Capcom forums with one of their employees saying we have an "unfounded fear of the eShop".

It's a catch 22. You can either vote with your wallet and not buy the game because it's digital download only and be the reason they won't release any more games of the series in the future, or you can buy the digital download and Capcom sees that sales are good enough to continue releasing the games as DD only and never releasing another physical copy of the series again.

Phoenix Wright 5: Dual Destinies english trailer

Lol at Halo on mobile phones. If what would once upon a time have been a Live Arcade game is the most exciting thing coming out of Microsoft studios this year, they better hope there's a ton of people who don't already own a laptop with an HDMI output who are looking for a way to watch tv online or else sales of the ONE are going to be laughable.

All the games I might once have been looking forward to have been shelved or never even got off the ground. Rainbow 6 got canned, Konami seem almost ashamed of the Suikoden series now, Sacred 3 looks like being some kind of horrific "YOU MUST PLAY WITH STRANGERS" perma-online effort so not holding out much hope for that any more and there wasn't really anything else exciting on the way anyway.

It's not a great sign when the only game I'm vaguely looking forward to this year is GTA.

It's official: The next Super Smash Bros. will be shown off at Nintendo Direct E3 in a little less than five days. Copy and paste that bitch into Google Translate if you're unsure.

One thing to look forward to, at least. So now to reignite years-long speculation on what third-party characters will make it in.

Xbox One Always Online and Used games explained

LOL @ having to stay connected. I only hope Sony doesn't fuck up this bad with PS4.

Dat AAA or nothin' business model. :(

On the other side of the same shithouse coin, we have SE making Final Fantasy Tactics Social games.

Truly the worst gen leading into an even worse gen.

And the quadruple will have the same measures as the Xbone, no doubt. Only it won't be "mandatory".

I somehow imagine a lot of publishers will use the systems and tools available to them, though.

That one time transfer is some bulllllllllllshit too. Holy fucking christ.

At least the PS4 plays PS2* games!

PS2 as in Planetside 2.

I only ever buy used games and I often lend or borrow the ones I own. I've never played a Call of Duty game and have only ever bought one EA Sports title.

I guess Xbox One isn't for me.

I will eat my hat if they ever announce a new numbered Suikoden, and to be honest I wouldn't be hugely shocked if we never saw another game period. Konami has admitted that the team that made the original games were broken up years ago, and I recall someone there saying that they "don't know how to make RPGs anymore," which has required them to hire outside teams to work on their projects.

Konami's business is surprisingly diverse outside of video gaming, and they honestly seem uninterested in expanding much beyond their core franchises (Metal Gear, Castlevania, Yu-Gi-Oh!; two of which have seen recent games outsourced). And with its sales consistently middling, it's a really bad situation for Suikoden to be in.

The head guy responsible for the story and direction of the Suikoden games left partway through development on Suikoden 3; it's why everything after that was either a prequel or other dimension bullshit. Unless they get him back I don't want a Suikoden 6, because I'm confident they'll fuck it up. Hell, they'd probably fuck it up anyway, but I'd at least be willing to give it a shot if he came back I guess.

Yoshitaka Murayama, and he actually left very late into development of Suikoden III (possibly under more amicable circumstances than originally believed). He's actually been out of the video game industry for a while as far as anyone can tell; he started a company called Blue Moon Studio and did a game called 10,000 Bullets for PS2, and that was about it. Pretty much been off the radar since. He seems like (a far less important) Shigesato Itoi, in the sense that video games were just a medium for him to tell a story. But for him, when it became too difficult to use it as a medium, he stopped telling stories that way. It's a shame.

Suikoden V did try its hand at an intricate story (tying in to Suikoden II and even Suikogaiden at one point), and got it done... acceptably. I wouldn't be against Suikoden VI, but they seem to insist that the only way to get new fans is to free themselves of the tremendous amount of background history. Which reminds me, I still need to buy the Gensou Suikoden Encyclopedia. I wonder if they've updated it recently?

Have you considered sucking all the dicks?

Watch Dogs Exposed E3 '13 trailer

So the TVBox One is out in November for £430/$500. That suggests there's just the one model getting launched.

Halo 5

Megazeal approved.

I still have little to no confidence in 343 as far as the gameplay/MP goes, but they HAVE said that Halo 5 will be 60 fps and have dedicated servers which I have to say is fucking crazy, so I'm curious how that will work out.

My thoughts on the Microsoft event:

-MGSV: typical Kojima madness.

-Xbox Mini: Given that this isn't the rumored cheap add-on to the X1 to play 360 games, I have zero idea why this exists as it's only a bit smaller, and IS THE SAME GODDAMN PRICE. Baffling.

-Ryse: Saving Private Ryan in Rome. Looked good graphically, but QTE as hell, and the violence I think was actually too over the top. Most of the chatter I've seen about the game was people remarking on how it was actually too violent for them.

-Battlefield 4: Looked good, although I like how the back button on a keyboard was in the top corner the whole time, good job guys. Also no one cares about your single-player campaign in Battlfield, pls stop trying.

-Dark Souls II: FUCK YES. But a 360/PS3 game anyway.

-Witcher 3: ALSO FUCK YES. But getting on PS4, or hopefully/maybe PC if we have a better one at that point anyway.

-Forza 5, Quantum Break, Project Spark, World of Tanks: Don't care.

-Below: Potentially neat, need more info.

-Crimson Dragon: WHERE'S THE AUDIO? Also looks neat, but I have zero nostalgia or history with Panzer Dragoon, so this doesn't really do anything for me at this point.

-D4: I'm not gonna lie, it's Swery65 so I am excited.

-Dead Rising 3: Looks good, but also don't have any fondness for the previous games. Also seems like a bit of a departure from the previous games (not as "goofy").

-Titanfall: I'm not gonna lie, this looks like the only thing that even has me remotely considering an X1 in the first year or two. The people behind MW1/2 + scifi + fast paced mech gameplay = FUCK YES. My only concern right now is that the 360 version is being done by someone else, which I respect from the developer perspective on focusing on the primary (X1) version, but has me a bit worried about the 360 port. If the 360 port is good though then that's a moot point and the X1 can continue to fuck itself.

-Halo 5: YO WHY DO YOU HAVE A CLOAK ON YOU'RE IN FUCKING ARMOR. Also Halo 4 was a shitshow campaign and multiplayer-wise, and continues to be so. I have zero faith in 343 at this point, but I want to believe so if the game actually comes out and is received well I'm on board. I will not buy any pre-release bullshit they try to sell though, and since Halo 4 reviewed well I can't trust those either, so I'll have to see how it turns out. It's not like I want Halo to be shit now, so holding out a bit of hope here. They did say that will be 60 FPS (I'm assuming this is Campaign?) and have dedicated servers, both of which are insane so I am curious how that turns out.

-Killer Instict: "We listened!" TO WHO? I have to admit the announcer made me laugh out loud, but I have no nostalgia for KI really. Also it's being made by Double Helix, every game they have ever developed has sucked ass. Literally the best thing I can say about their game history is Silent Hill Homecoming, ponder that.

-Minecraft: I like how their fix to address the ridiculously small 360 version worlds was to port it to next gen.


On the whole I actually don't think it was as bad as I was expecting, but honestly my expectations were already SO LOW that I guess that wasn't hard. They showed a lot more games than I actually would have guessed, but my personal interest and/or quality of the games was lacking overall. Unless PS4 winds up going virtually the same route as the X1 regarding DRM/used games/etc I will admit that I DO see myself getting an X1 for purely certain online games at some point down the line. For exclusive experiences that I'm not going to care about carrying with me forward (like Titanfall/Halo multiplayer) it might be worth it, but they didn't do anything here to convince me that I need to have this over a PS4. At this point even if the PS4 is identical to the X1 in terms of the DRM mess I'm going PS4 because they seem to at least give a shit about games, whereas Microsoft's messaging has been either non-existent, contradictory, or involves directly fucking you in the ass.

Best thing so far was new Plants vs Zombies game. Gonna buy it on a PC anyway. Why lie.

I'm not gonna lie, I screamed like a girl at the FFXV gameplay and KH3 reveal. Nomura can still die in a fire, but HOLY GODDAMN FUCK AT THAT FFXV GAMEPLAY I DON'T EVEN

Sony is in straight beast mode right now. Even if this thing is identical to the Xbone DRM-wise, these exclusives and timed exclusives (like Transistor!) at least indicates they care about games. When they had like 6 different indie devs all on stage playing and showing their games I was just like holy shit what are you even doing MS.

No used game or online restrictions.
$399

Sony Wins.

This is the most amazing thing I have ever seen.

YouTube Video

I just pre-ordered a PS4 on Amazon. MS is so, so, so fucked. They can't spin this, they just can't. $100 cheaper, and no restrictions. 3rd console curse continues.

Edit: Oh to be fair the minor downside that they snuck into all of this was that Plus is going to be required for multiplayer online games which is shit, but considering everything else as well as the crazy benefits you get from Plus I can't be THAT upset about it.

Speaking from the perspective of someone who didn't purchase a PS3 and had the 360 this past generation, I am going to pre-order the PS4. Holy shit, Microsoft just got fucking decked. The Sony conference kicked into riot mode in the last 30-40 minutes. I feel pretty good getting a PS4 to have alongside my Wii U after hearing all this coming from Sony. I was already sold on not getting an Xbone and maybe not a PS4 if they touted the DRM/online horseshit MS did.

DAT FFXV FUUUUUUCK

My only "gripe" is that now PS+ is basically turning into Live. You can't access multiplayer without having a PS+ account for the PS4 (I hope that doesn't change for PS3). But I guess that's only a small price to pay for no DRM and used games policy. Now if they say it is possible for complete Backwards Compatibility, then that would be icing on the cake.

I got all excited about the Unfinished Swan music at the start and the end of the show - too bad nothing came of it. I had a feeling KH3 was going to be the next game, but the confirmation still made me squee like a little girl. New Final Fantasy looks awesome. Watch Dogs still looks amazingly fun. TRANSISTOR OH MY GOODNESS. That and Sony just spending half an hour bashing Microsoft was hilarious, if a little sad.

I probably won't get a PS4 at launch, but i will certainly be getting one some day. Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy are reasons enough, but stuff like The Order 1886 and Destiny also look really cool. Also Watch Dogs, though i'll probably be getting that on my Wii U.

Count me in. Also getting a Playstation Plus subscription. Cancelling that Xbox Live in the near future.

Just finished preordering it as well, though it's mainly just insurance in case something baller is coming out at launch. Not doing another wait outside. Gotta admit, I did not see Sony actually learning from the turribad PS3. Microsoft better be seriously reconsidering some things after tonight.

Now then, let's see what Nintendo has in store in the morning. C'mooooon Ambassador Program and X confirmed for 2013.

Alright, Skills.

YouTube Video

http://i.minus.com/ibnXdGGvlK800D.gif

Sony just turned me from a "Meh, upgrade to next-gen when the price drops" to "That seems like a reasonable use for my end of season bonus". Likewise, signing up to PSPlus and ditching Live around the same time.

I mean, I've been waiting for a new Killer Instinct game forever but that doesn't quite outweigh the extra £80 and not being able to buy second hand games.

Well the Killer Instinct game is a joke now anyway:

Jago is the only character available to play on release.

The game has a Free to Play model. Meaning it's free as long as you play only as Jago, the rest are PAID DLC.

It's not even getting a retail launch, it's digital only.

Scratch all that. It was a "mistake" on IGN's report. You'll be able to either download a fully functional "demo" of the game (You'll be able to access EVERY game mode available, but only play as Jago) where you'll have the option to buy character packs with certain characters in them, or you can purchase the full game at launch.

Confirmed for 2014 :(

Yeah, but WiiU wise, I feel like I have enough now to hold me over between now and then with W101, Pikmin, and now Dawnkey Kawng. 3D Mario looks alright, probably will just rent it.

To be honest, I've already put in over 100 hours on Xenoblade, so there is a bit of 'I'm glad it's going to take its time' since I still want to finish that. Hoping that the multiplayer aspect in X is good (assumed multiplayer?).

lol, ff15 coming to xbox also

YouTube Video

Okay then.

GOING INTO CRYOSLEEP, REVIVE ME WHEN IT'S OUT

Everyone already knew that FF XV and KH3 weren't going to be exclusive, if so they would have touted that at the PS conference. Honestly it kinda doesn't matter, those games will obviously lead on PS4 (see FF13 and FF13-2 and the performance on PS3 versus 360 there), and even if they're equal who cares?

Also yeah, I think my XBL expires next month or something, Angel is definitely letting hers drop, I'll probably either go Silver or just maintain monthly or 3 month passes until PS4 hits maybe.

Despite the trash some people are throwing at Nintendo's showcase this year, I have it to thank for convincing me to get a Wii U at some point.

It wasn't the most exciting showcase ever, but it had some of the solid titles people were looking for. Also - if you don't like what you saw, you don't have to wait a year - next Nintendo Direct is next month. Man those things are awesome.

I'm interested in the SSB for 3DS. It looks like I'm finally going to get some use out of my 3DS this year!

Also, in a pretty fucking LOL moment:

http://kotaku.com/ea-denies-asking-m...-drm-512779915

EA throwing Microsoft under the bus for their DRM measures.

I love that quote, because it's denies so little. "...EA did not aggressively lobby for the platform holders to put some gating function in there..." and "...saying you must put a system in place..."

All EA is denying is that they made hard demands from console makers. There's still so much room, based on your definition of "aggressively", for a lot of lobbying and requests. So basically, EA hasn't threatened to stop making games if console makers didn't put an end to used game sales. That's it.

So I missed the entirety of this due to deployment shit, anybody wanna give a quick rundown on how things are looking?

You're buying a PS4.

Xbone is pretty much literally DOA. They couldn't even pay me to take one, and you know I was pretty much all 360 this gen.

Nintendo has solidified the Wii U as a Gamecube 2 - they have a small selection of titles that look great, but that's pretty much it. We're nearly a year out and "launch window" titles like Wonderful 101 and Pikmin still aren't out. I will get one for Bayonetta 2 because it looks fucking ridiculous, and there are some other must haves, but it's clearly not going to approach Wii levels of success.


Also did anyone see Sony is actually NOT ALLOWING publishers to have online passes? Like, holy shit. At this point I think we can all but confirm that the move to charge for PS+ for multiplayer was done largely to give Sony money to probably give publishers a cut in lieu of online passes and DRM. They take the (relatively) small hit of charging for online multiplayer, but they get the benefit of coming out and saying no DRM, no used game restrictions, no online passes, a cheaper price point, and all on top of the already pretty impressive value PS+ is.

Also Tails add me back on your 3DS dawg

Microsoft fell flat on its face, and while they were down, Sony stuck gum in their hair. Basically.

I will but I don't have wireless connectivity out here in the middle of nowhere, so you might not see it for a while.

As for E3, all I've heard about XB1 is bad, bad, bad. It's sad to see them shitting on everyone so fucking hard. Sony actually making sense again, is the world about to end or what?

(Saw the Wii Fit Trainer announcement for SSB3DS, loooolllll)

Really surprised with how well Sony came out of this. They've definitely got my interest piqued. My Live Gold doesn't expire until March or May, which might work out well. Should everyone transition over to PSN at or near release, I can use Live still for any games that might launch after that point. Though, yeah, once I get a PS4, I am not renewing my Gold membership.

As long as PSN chat is systemwide like Live chat, I will be okay with moving over.

If that's how you're qualifying it, then it's not the Gamecube 2, it's like... the Nintendo 64 4. "Excellent first-party games but a small selection of third-party stuff that's any good" has been par for the course for a long time. The Wii was just the only one to smash sales records despite it.

To be honest, the Wii U could be a dedicated X player and I would probably be content. God damn, why is it not 2014 yet? Probably because we still need to get the Wonderful 101.

YouTube Video

I think I would be more surprised if Sony didn't look great after this. You've have to be an idiot to not realize how strong the reaction to some of Microsoft's announcements was, so to blunder along and make the exact same announcements would be really quite foolish. Everyone was saying all Sony really had to do to win was say "hey, you know all that stuff they're doing? We're not gonna do that" and that's pretty much exactly what they said.

From what i understood, companies can still do online passes and DRM stuff if they want, but they have to do it themselves - Sony won't implement a system or operate it for them.

But yeah, it's basically been Kick Microsoft While They're Down Week. To be fair, they had it coming.

What Daravon said.

My take on it?

YouTube Video

Sony may be charging online, but at least people can play without it, much less going online.

Bought a 3-month PS+ pass yesterday for $18.

Bought Unfinished Swan (Angel wanted it) and Sound Shapes (I wanted) for the Plus discounted rate of 75% off for $3.75 each. Paid for it right there.

Then tonight I got home and downloaded free copies of Vanquish, Uncharted 3, XCOM, Deus Ex, The Cave, Machinarium, and some other free games (a couple of which actually seem cool). Also even though we don't have a Vita, we now also have Wipeout 2048, Uncharted Golden Abyss and Gravity Rush, and later this month are getting God Eater and VLR, which gives us just about every title on the system worth owning except Persona 4.

Goddamn.

PS+ pays for itself in about two weeks. Just the sheer amount of free games they offer while you're subscribed makes it completely worth it.

Considering that Plus memberships will cross over to PS4 makes it even better.

Just make sure to remember that if you download the free games, you can only use them while you're a PS+ member, but at $50/year that's still not too bad.

I hope D&D Chronicles of Mystara is at a discounted price/free next week. Been waiting on that game for forever.

I can't imagine it'll be free, but they seem to usually offer Plus discounts on new games a lot of the time it seems like? And yeah, that might be my first new PSN over XBLA purchase as well, not sure yet.

Sometimes they do. Bloodrayne Betrayal and Double Dragon Neon were free to PS+ members at launch and for some time after. I kinda regret not getting the Street Fighter IV Arcade edition while it was free, but I did get NBA Jam!

D&D wasn't even mentioned in the releases for this upcoming week on the PS Blog, which is concerning.

D&D Thief class trailer

Release date at the end of the trailer. I think XBL gets it the next day though. Unless something has changed since last week that I haven't read. :(

I'm still trying to figure on what game I should pre-order alongside the PS4. I'm thinking maybe Watch Dogs. I know I'll want to try and get The Order 1886 when that drops. Kingdom Hearts 3 next year is a no-brainer too.

edits: It's live and bought! (D&D)

Well things just got interesting

from Giantbomb

It's been confirmed by MS: Your Feedback Matters – Update on Xbox One

I'm just gonna copy my FB post about it:

I will also give them credit for removing region locks. The problem for me personally is that techwise the PS4 is superior, it's literally inarguable unless you want to argue then nebulous "power of the cloud" which literally means nothing right now. Also this throws all of the statements from developers about how they can do all of this supposedly crazy shit BECAUSE OF THE POWER OF THE CLOUD totally under the bus, since if you don't have to be online you either have to program you games without this amazing power, or anyone who isn't online is fucked.

Also you have Kinect always on as well as it being $100 more expensive on top of that. So while I am actually genuinely impressed (and amused) that they backpeddled on this, they've already kinda shot themselves in the foot for me personally; this gen I was 360 first and PS3 only for exclusives, gonna be the other way around nextgen. But this announcement will at least be getting me to get an Xbone at some point, but it'll be a secondary purchase and not a primary one. They'll also be digging themselves out of a PR hole for years; you only get one first impression, and casuals/mainstream may not even realize that they've changed their policy on this for a long time. There are still people who think the Wii U is an add-on for the Wii.

Is this the biggest gaming megaton that's ever happened? The only thing I can think of that's maybe comparable is Sega backing out of hardware.

That has been my number one question all along. How exactly the cloud thingie works, is it a online must thing or does Forza for instance work without it?

Even if they do pull a massive U-turn, I fear the damage is already done at this point. Microsoft has suffered a PR disaster in the last couple of weeks and even if the One launches with none of the second hand games bullshit or whatever, in the back of people's minds is that Microsoft are the guys that wanted DRM and to stop us selling our games or lending them to people and Sony are the guys who didn't, yay Sony.

It's like the PSOne was an industry changing event and made gaming cool and socially acceptable and then everyone was really excited about the PS2 and it had GTA3 and was awesome. Then out of nowhere MS go and launch a console and everyone was a big suspicious and it was a slow starter but the Halo was awesome and Live made online console gaming easy and it caught on in a big way. Next gen Sony tried really hard but failed to capture what was great about Live but kinda missed the point and the PS3 was pretty expensive for nothing that special whereas the 360 improved on the original and went from strength to strength until MS saw some advertising dollar signs and launched a horrid new menu interface that was all about paying for tv shows and social networking and not really games. Now MS announce the follow up and it's sold as a tv box that sometimes plays games only MS want every single quid they can get out of you and Sony leap in and suddenly re-capture some of the excitement about PS2 and manage to make MS look really cynical and corporate in the process.

Xbox One has been weirdly marketed so far. They're all about watching tv and going on facebook but literally everyone has digital tv and a laptop that do those things better already. How they thought they could try and control the entire second hand games market and get away with it is anyone's guess. I imagine someone's getting sacked soon though.

Well, now I'm conflicted. Do I go with the Xbox, with its vastly superior controller and Forza, all the while wondering in the back of my mind when the other shoe will drop, or with the PSquad, because they've been less douchy about things, and hope that they get the online stuff right this time?

Actually, I think I'll just play it safe and let all of you nerds buy both, wait for your reviews, and then make my decision next Spring.

Well I'll be damned, Microsoft actually does have a brain. Still saving $100 and keeping my PS4 preorder.

That XBone will most likely be a secondary purchase for me, but I do hate adding the camera to the package. I won't use it most likely.

Sticking with PS4.

The region dropping has GOT to be because the Navy Times called them out on it. I see no other fucking reason for it.

It's so good it actually brings the start of a sparkle to my otherwise emotionless, dead eyes.

Mmm.

Certainly, this does eliminate some of the biggest issues I had with the device. It leaves me torn a little bit, actually. I honestly don't think the spec differences Daravon mentioned are gonna mean a damn thing in the end-- publishers on the whole are going to develop multiplatform, so games are going to be remarkably similar. The controller looks great, which is a big deal to me.

I do like a lot of the non-gaming features of the Xbone, but honestly, that Kinect is killing me. I have no space for Kinect gaming in the bedroom, and speaking/gesturing commands is not going to warrant a hundred-dollar premium over the PS4. I think the cost and that, ultimately, I am a JRPG faggot are still gonna steer me toward a PS4 over a Bone for now. Maybe I can be convinced before launch with something impressive, but for now... Eh.

Hey Zip tell me more about how the XBone DRM policy was a good business decision lolololol

I've actually seen quite a few people who are disappointed with this announcement. Most of them seemed to be under the impression that you could designate a bunch of your friends as "family" and only have to buy one copy of a game between you (which Microsoft would never have stood for), and others wanted to see the online shop and remote game access happen.

Really, what it comes down to is we don't trust Microsoft enough to hand them that much control over our games. There were innovative ideas there, sure, but that was one deep end the gaming community just wasn't ready to jump into. Especially when we strongly suspected that the deep end was full of sharks.

Steam has earned our trust. Microsoft will have to do the same if they want to try to have similar policies.

That's part of it. Do you know why I don't give a shit about Steam's DRM? Because there are other options available to me as a consumer on a PC, if I want, and because a lot of the games cost three dollars,

This is what I've been saying for ages. On a PC the DRM is not that big of a deal as you have options to bypass it if you ever have problems with, say, a legit bought copy refusing to start or something. You can try a game (illegally) before deciding for yourself whether you think the developer deserves your money for it or not.

On a closed system like consoles, there is none of this, and the digital only future looks less and less appealing every day.

I dunno man, the argument "It's not a good feature list because I can't pirate to test the waters or when I don't like the DRM" is kind of a flimsy one. Don't get me wrong though, I agree that there were some genuinely neat features that were overshadowed by user-hostile regulations that made it unpalatable.

I wonder if Microsoft could have struck a better balance between what they were going to do and what they're doing now? To be honest, I was only genuinely offended by forced check-ins. I try not to buy used games for the usual reasons you hear (the developers of good games see none of the profit; Gamestop is a shitty, parasitic company), so I'm not sure if I would have cared much about the licenses that had to be transferred when selling a game.

Pachter explains it the best
Pach-Attack! Video - DRM Derailed | GameTrailers

I'm not sure how that makes things any better. He just told us what reasonable people already knew-- Microsoft wasn't stomping on our balls for the sake of stomping on them; they were stomping on our balls because they don't trust us to not share our one purchased game with 20 friends.

Doesn't change the fact that they were stomping on our balls.

Whenever you're ready, GFF Marketing Expert.

Also it turns out that from multiple reliable sources (MS will never verify either way, because they have no reason to) that the 10 person family game sharing thing was only for 60 minute demos and not the full game. It's been hilarious how for a day or so there was this subset of the internet and press (Gizmondo I think in particular) that was blaming everyone saying that we destroyed the best feature of the system and were holding back innovation...and it turns out all that we were holding back was demos. This continues to be good times.

This still earns MS back a lot of credibility to the general masses, but those people also probably don't care too much about the difference between the Xbone and PS4, and they're going to see the PS4 is $100 cheaper. Everything's going to sell out initially, but unless Sony either super fucks up or MS does a $100 price drop before launch, MS is going to get destroyed after the holidays. Casuals care about CoD, but not enough to spend $100 more to get a X1 to get DLC a month early.

If by "multiple reliable sources," you mean "one guy on Pastebin claiming to be a disgruntled engineer." I don't buy it. Besides the goddamn absurdity of this source, why would this guy who's mad about us pissing away the future let slip that Family Sharing is that fucking weak?

EDIT: Just did a bit of digging. Aaron Greenberg and Marc Whitten (two high-level Xbox executives at Microsoft) have said on Twitter that the Pastebin writer is full of shit. Could be lying. I get the feeling they probably aren't though.

I know you like to play this internet tough guy, asshole, but what I said to you in the chat is exactly what Pachter is saying in the video. My example was with Forza and e.g. groups like GFF just sendin games back and forth, that's why a drm was needed. In that way it's a good business decision to keep sales going. On the used game issue (which has nothing to do with this) I still stand by that if used games were removed -certain- sales would go up since people would have no other choice to buy games new, there is a study that wiredgamer (and others) did that supported that and hinted that it could lead to lower game prices (which I dont agree 100% with).
Those were business decision, I never said it's a good marketing decision. I even told you in the same discussion that branding wise it's probably bad.
Business and marketing decisions are two different things.
Now take your transformers chain and stop trolling.

::trust Microsoft mouthpiece on the issue::

The Pastebin was confirmed correct by several reliable GAF sources that have been 100 percent correct in the past; including one who's nailed every single reveal this year weeks early as a matter of course. Pastebins themselves are of course not a reliable source of info, but if you're taking the company line on it you're being just as ridiculous.

There's also this: Which is a good reading between the lines that shows this was probably already announced, no one noticed it though: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...6&postcount=48

Does anyone REALLY THINK they would essentially allow 6 and 7 dollar XBOne games out the door for life? After all these other controls? Are you stupid?

You should pay more attention to whom you're addressing, and generally stop being a shitweasel. Your example was a manufactured problem in an attempt to justify outdated business practices. You claimed multiple points of proof and provided none of them. You defended the business decision because an authority figure made it, and you are now sticking by that VERY SAME definition when the authority figure has turned around and said "welp that was a bad idea". You also cited several examples of scenarios based entirely on hypotheticals and personal anecdotes.

Citing Pachter, someone notorious for being as wrong as he is right, is probably not the best move either. The man's a talking head personality and plays up opinions for clicks. It's amazing how people don't realize this in twenty fucking thirteen.

So eat a dick.

Christ, I forgot how much of a fucking hippie you are. Stick it to those executive fat cats, man.

"Microsoft won't confirm or deny it, since they have no reason to."
"They just denied it."
"Well you can't trust them anyway since they're corporate talking heads, so I'm going to place my trust in PEOPLE OF THE INTERNET

End quote.

I don't really care either way seeing as Family Sharing is gone regardless and none of us were going to Bone this next generation (...wait.). In fact, I hope you guys are right. Would be much happier knowing that this is a lame feature dropped to return full rights to the user again. But this sourcing is so beyond retarded and unprofessional that I just can't get behind it.

EDIT: Upon rereading my initial response to Daravon, I sounded pretty condescending. I apologize for that Daravon; that wasn't my intention.

Lol whatever. You ask me for proof while you yourself have none. I already pointed you in the direction of studies and gave you good exempels of companies bringing you in their Eco system. You don't need to agree with me I could care less but please don't think you know more about business then either me or for instance pachter ( which I referred to because of his explanation of the sharing system, not as a source of why it would work). So both of you diaperbabiea can eat a dick, I pay attention to who you are when you show me decent level of respect in a conversation, then I gladly discuss this with you all day.

Xoxo

It was a sound business decision but for one small but hugely important factor. MS tried to enforce a monopoly market for used games and probably thought Sony would play ball and do the same thing, hell right up to their conference most people assumed the same. Instead, Sony have taken the gamble, possibly in the time between the MS conference and theirs, that the money they'll now clearly make from so many people picking up a PS4 rather than a Bone at launch and having a bigger, established customer base as a result will outweigh the cash they could have made from controlling second hand sales. I'm sure the Bone will recover but Sony are going to be in a really strong position for years off the back of this. Whoever made this call at Sony is due for a hell of a bonus whereas some people at MS are clearly gonna get sacked.

Yup. This really was a godsend for them, ps3 might not have been the flop that it sometimes is made to be but they did lose a lot of money on it and seing how the company itself has fallen (lets not forget that they were kings of the world after ps2) so deeply into trouble they needed desperately needed something to gain a momentum on. And the terrible PR work of MS was the opening that they needed. Jason Rubin said it the best, Microsoft might have had the some new exciting features but instead of telling how it's going to help they tried to dictate what we should accept and use.
The thing that I'm wondering is how this will all develop in 3-4 years. I doubt that this generation will be any shorter than the current and what happens when the initial install base has been reached and one of them decides it's time to try something new that the other company can't do. No one is going to be releasing a new console mid-generation and there is a chance that e.g. MS really becomes a multi-media machine and Sony has the only gaming machine (and nintendo i suppose). That would in a way create a monopoly on two different niche markets. Will be interesting to see how both companies attack the coming months tho.