The Command & Conquer 3!! OMG! OMG! thread!
 

If you haven't heard already, C&C 3 is official! Meaning this sequel will be in the Tiberium universe, and will be more serious than RA, and hopefully have a better story than Generals.

Here's a link:
http://www.forumplanet.com/planetcnc...11&tid=1880941

There are some pics here if you scroll to the bottom:
http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showth...t=16462&page=2

I'm a big C&C fan, as Tiberian Dawn (the original C&C) was the first RTS game I had ever played and I still love it to this day. Red Alert was great, but it went downhill from there. Tiberian Sun had a great FMVs but the game was awful, RA2 was a lot better but no classic, while Generals was solid but it just wasn't "C&C."

I hope C&C3 delivers, but this will only happen if EA actually supports the game this time, and doesn't rush it out like they did with Generals. Bring back the FMVs with real actors (and Kane if possible), Frank Klepacki's music, good solid gameplay (no lag, and easily abusable multiplayer this time plz), and I'll be happy. :D

Hmm, this might make me want to go out and buy Comand and Conquer: The first Decade, which has all C&C games + expansions released to date. I'd download it, but its a whopping 7GBs.

It's not even that expensive. It costs less than an average retail game.

Depending on which games you haven't played or are interested in replaying, First Decade may or may not be worth getting. Red Alert 2's singleplayer is definitely worth a play through if you have never done so, while Renegade can be really addictive you like it for what it is. I also really like the original and Red Alert 1, but they obviously don't hold up all that well these days.

C&C 3 will probably be crap. For starters, Westwood Studios staff members don't even work at EALA anymore. The only remaining person is Louis Castle. Secondly, look how BFME2 turned out, boring and uninspired. It'll probably be the same for this. Not to mention the Orca looks like shit, and why is GDI back to using TANKS again?

Where the hell are my mechs?

EA can go to hell. C&C died with Westwood. Let it be.

Red alert 2 was awsome, same with the expansion. Renegade was... different. New game and all, but I liked the RTS version better. Tiberium Sun has to be my favortie though, with the expansion of course. I dont like the new ones =/, Generals for the most part... It stopped being C&C and became some new game. It didnt even have the same game mechanics.

Tiberian Sun.

For the record, it's the Brotherhood of Nod. (Not NOD as someone will undoubtedly spell it as.)

I like to nitpick with my favorite game series of all time. :p

Sigh. So the day I dreaded for so long has finally come. I'm not sure if it's good or bad news.

I loved Tiberian Dawn, the first C&C. I actually re-played the campaigns recently. I also loved Red Alert. Tiberian Sun, on the other hand, was average at best. The cutscenes just weren't what I expected. I don't want third person stuff. As for the game itself, it wasn't too good either. And I didn't like the way the story progressed very much. The way I remember Tiberian Sun, Kane didn't made an impression anywhere near what I got from him in Tiberian Dawn. It just wasn't the same.

So, right now, what I'm most concerned about isn't the game itself or how they make the cutscenes, that stuff just depends on the work they put on the game. What I'm concerned about is how they'll fix the story. I'm not sure if I'd rather see them bring back Kane or not, even if I know they will (if you played "Firestorm", you know why). There's just no way they'll be able to make him as "good" as in the first C&C. Yet a C&C game without Kane is just about impossible. So in the end, it seems they're screwed no matter what. I'm not going to expect a good story.

Oh well, at least I'll probably still be able to ion cannon the shit out of a temple of Nod. That reminds me, I wish they'd make several endings for both GDI and the Brotherhood.

Nice find for the article. Seems like they still have a long way to go before the game's done...

If I didn't know how different what you read in magazines or on websites can be from the actual finished product, I might be slightly excited by now.

Alas. EA will need to do more than that if they really want me to like that game. I do admit I am somewhat curious about that whole "Tiberium science bible" thing, however.

Cautious optimisim is probably the best way to describe what I feel. I love the C&C series (it was one of the first computer games I ever played) for all its worth. But like Stealth said most (pretty much ALL) of the folks who made C&C into what it is have long left EALA, only Mr. Castle is left. So we'll have to see how the new team handles C&C3 (Tiberian Wars?). From the screens the game looks, well, really good as far as eye candy goes, but in terms of C&C flavor, something has been lost, those Mammoth Tanks just don't look really like the Mammoth tanks I grew up with, and those new soldiers suits, blah. Finally, WTF happened to all those hovertanks and the Titans? Did GDI recess back into tank tracks again? At least Kane is back (again!).

A Tiberian Science Bible? Backed by MIT? interesting. I can finally give my friends a plausible, scientific answer as to why I'm harvesting "lawn grass" to build my armies.

meh. As for the Tiberium bible, my prof will probably say, "this can be explained by wave-particle duality of quantum mechanic".

damn, c&c3 looks great! i wasn't aware that most of the original Westwood staff left, but it still seems like this game has potentional. the tiberian science bible will be quite interesting but why go all out with MIT just for that? guess it has to drag you more into the game :)
and yes, we need FMVs with real actors and Frank Klepacki's music :p

I think this looks ugly as hell. The mecha design is horrible and totally generic. It looks like it features the original units from Tiberian Dawn but slightly altered so they look like shit. The soldiers also look extremely unrealistic, uninspired and interchangeable.

If anything, they should make a direct sequel/prequel to the first game with the same characters and units. When Westwood was bought by EA, Command & Conquer went downhill. You can't even call it a "universe" anymore with its dissonant installments.

I think I’d enjoy a C&C3. Generals was OK, but it seemed dry and lacking the personality of previous entries to the series. If it’s not done well and appears to be just another Sci-Fi RTS, might as well kill off the franchise.

C&C as a whole began to go down after Red Alert, in both gameplay as well as music. Frank Klepacki's best days where when he composed Red Alert. I still have my original Tiberian Dawn, as well as the 2-disc Red Alert as well as the Counterstrike and Aftermath expansion packs. I still play them to this day. Awesome stuff.

I'm a bit hesitant about the new game though. I figure I'll wait until they solidify more facts and details before saying this game will be the beat all C&C game.

Sure the designs can be improved, but the graphics engine is fine in my opinion. I hope I'll be able to run the game without any hassle without having to upgrade my computer.

Klepacki won't be working on the new C&C anyway. He works for Petroglyph now.

On the plus side, looks like fansites are already going up: http://www.tiberiumwar.com

Command & Conquer really lost it's luster when EA took over Westwood, and the games since then have been little more than mediocre entertainment. C&C Generals didn't have much of anything that made it similar to it's predecessors save the basic RTS formula and the name. The unit designs look bland, and the soldiers look like near copies of the marines from Starcraft.

I don't have high hopes that this title will do anything to resurrect the series. It looks like another game to get when it's on the twenty dollar shelf.

From what I understand the graphics engine of the game is the same as the one that powered BFME I&II as well as Generals. Just a little more beefed up.

Hopefully the understanding that C&C is probably one of the most valuable frachises EA (EALA) holds right now will motivate them to do the best they can, although whoever came up with the whole infantry battlesuit concept needs to be blindfolded and shot for his/her shitty design. They look out of proportion and awkward, not to mention not very original, add a few more skulls and other macabre symbols and you have an Adeptus Astartes SM. Give him a gun any larger and you get a SC Marine like others have astutely pointed out. Stim-paks FTW.

Heres hoping at least BNOD will be able to maintain their style.

Generals was iffy, but I really don't trust EA's products. Heck, I'm still waiting on several BF2 patches.

I got something better.

Long ago Westwood said that the Tiberian saga has 3 episodes.
Tiberian Dawn, which tells how Tiberium started spreading
Tiberian Sun, which told the story of the post-apocalyptic Earth where Tiberium is at its prime.
Tiberian Twilight which would tell the story of how Tiberium is finally extuinguished.

Note how this game isn't called Tiberian Twilight anymore. It's called Command and Conquer 3: Tiberium War. Just another run in the mill episode instead of a gorgeus dramatic conclusion.

Their marketing bullshit also presents Kane is a megalomaniac super terrorist while the former games show him as a divine fanatic (and a genius for the matter, plus theres that small thing that he did not age a day between Red Alert (around the fifties) and Tiberian Sun (2030) that raises a question that he is not just a random guy bullshiting in the name of god).

They are turning the old C&C from an epic saga to a cashcow. They are going to ruin it because of that. Will Joe Kucan (the guy who plays Kane) even appear in the gorgeous FMVs? Will the game even HAVE any fmvs? Will it have the same incredibly simplified but breathtakingly good controls which was the trademark of every C&C game, or will we have to lelearn which mouse button is used for selecting units? Will the awesome tunes of Frank Klepacki will be there to further pump the mood of the games apocalyptic setting?

EA is not making a good game with C&C3. Only a sellable game. I can imagine now: the first mission will not present you with something wicked as "exterminate a civilian village" or to protect your base with commandos who just arrived on your base from orbit, it will have "commander. Use your mouse to navigate the camera".

Is nothing sacred anymore?

Oh, and what about Red Alert 3. That one was announced as being developed too, or something.

For me, the one and only true Command & Conquer game was the original Tiberian Dawn.

Red Alert got me hyped but I lost interested after seeing that they magically had Mammoth Tanks in WWII, which were considered 'prototype' in Tiberian Dawn. The time machine crap was just a poor excuse for the graphics designers' inability to come up with new assets.

It's about time. It isn't C&C without GDI and the Brotherhood of Nod. :D

Interesting that you point out the name Tiberian Twilight, I had totally forgotten about that.

Anyways, hopefully the gameplay is at least as good as Generals. I doubt it will become an addictive online RTS as EA is always slow to patch their games, but if it has a fun singleplayer campaign/story like that of Red Alert 2, then i'll be happy with it.

I can't really get excited for this. I think just about everybody who's a C&C fan is going to be let down with this game. Virtually none of the people that made C&C great are left at EA. So all the fans are going to get bilked.

I'm not a cow. I don't want to be milked.

Mark Skaggs, the guy who made the announcement, mysteriously left EALA rather shortly after he made the announcement. We can only speculate that perhaps the whole RA3 idea left the company along with him.

He didn't mysteriously leave. He quit and formed Trilogy Studios.

hmmm another c&c game i wonder if i will get it

So has there been any news about this since, or is it gone with the wind just like RA3?

There have been a couple of interviews and screenshots here and there, but nothing else really. I think the game still has some ways to go.

It's going to be at least next year before it comes out. Well at least thats what Gamespot have it at.
here for more info.

*Note*

Command And Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars is only a working title, and will probably (I hope for them they do growl) be changed to Tiberian Twilight.
That url is allready proprety of EALA

Well so far the game looks just like a generic fps with generic futuristic ships and tanks, so it wont really matter what they will call it - it will be just like Generals.

*Looks at the pictures*

Aw, damn; my computer will probably have a hard time starting up this game, let alone running it when it comes up, since the gameplay on Generals was extremely jerky and slow on my computer.

That being said.....:aargh:

This is a pretty old post I'm replying to here, but I'm about certain that the Mammoth tanks in the Tiberium saga were prototype Mammoth Mk IIs, not the Apocalypse-esque models from the original RA.

Doesn't matter. They used the exact same graphics set for the tank in Tiberian Dawn and Red Alert. And I can cleary remember the Mammoth tank being hyped as a prototype weapon by the GDI in Tiberian Dawn. Its production codename was X-66 - as in "X" for experimental.

The Mark II didn't make an appearance until Tiberian Sun and the "Apocalypse" version is from Red Alert 2.

Also, the trailer for C&C3 looks like crap.

Man I can't wait for a new C&C game. As good as LOTR: BFME1/2 were, I've been craving for a new C&C game.

Also new trailer for all to see;
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.p...15359&type=wmv

As I recall the game storyline, the soviets destroyed all schemantics they had in after Moscow fell in RA1. So things like the Mammoth had to be discovered again.

Storyline faq at gamefaqs:
http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/dosw...quer_story.txt

Last I heard, Joseph D. Kucan was back as Kane (in the "You Can't Kill the Messiah" trailer), and they'd also roped in Michael Ironside (who vanished after Total Recall) and Billy Dee 'Will you get going, ya pirate' Williams for the cast as well.

So at least the live action FMVs will look good.

Kinda.

I somehow have doubts about this. What I loved above all else in the original C&C was that the cutscenes were first-person. It might have been the result of a small budget, but it had the effect of really making you feel like you were in the game. Unfortunately, it's one of the things they've decided to change, wrongly, in Tiberian Sun (disclaimer: I hate Tiberian Sun). I can only hope that they'll actually go back to first person, but the chances of this happening are fairly low.

Also, and I hate doing this because I feel like both an horrible nerd and a C&C fanboy, but the C&C and Red Alert universes are not linked together. True, in the original Red Alert there seems to be a few things hinting at it, culminating in, well, anyone who's completed the Soviet campaign will know. Still, I'm fairly sure Westwood made clear afterwards that both universes really aren't the same. All possible links are severed in Red Alert 2.

One can only assume that the Soviet mammoth tank and the GDI version only look the same due to coincidence (ie, either the artists really were too lazy to make another unit, or Westwood wanted to include a familiar unit in RA). Looking similar doesn't mean they're necessarily the same, the RA version might have quarter meter thick steel everywhere (not completely unlike the German Maus) with basic guided missile (RA takes place in the 50's), while the GDI version has modern composite reactive armor along with modern fire-control systems and advance guided missiles. Seriously though, I'm not going to argue about this.

Many of Tiberian Sun's FMVs were also first person, though proportionally it was definitely still a big change from other C&C's. Anyways, Red Alert 2 was by far the best C&C in terms of how the FMVs were implemented in my opinion. Tiberian Sun had good FMVs too, but the singleplayer gameplay was just awful.

I have high hopes for this game, but really only for the singleplayer portion. I'm sure many C&C fans are in the same boat after Generals, and the only reason they aren't thrashing this game already is because the FMVs (and Kane) are back.

But Kane was an advisor to Stalin in RA - That seems like confirmation enough to me. Furthermore, for Kane to be able to hop back that far into the 20th century, time travel technology would have to exist in the GDI universe; a perfect explanation for this would be the time machine Einstein developed in Red Alert 2. A lot of the time it's also actually implied that Kane instigated the war in Red Alert in order to secure a power base for himself.

During the events of RA2 it's safe to assume that Kane was lying in wait in Africa with the rest of the brotherhood; hence he had no need for a role.

RA2 itself doesn't really feel like a continuation of RA1. The first game was much closer to the idea of World War II, without American intervention. When the second game along, it became almost exclusively a U.S.-Russian affair. While that could be reflecting the real power shifts that happened in the world at that time, much of the political intrigue seems to have been lost. Instead, the whole PSI-Corps/Yuri thing seems like it was added in the absence of any other plot.

In addition, I'd have imagined Kane would have started interfering when Yuri started planting psycho dominators all round the world. It just seems disconnected to the RA saga, never mind the Tiberium Saga.

Uhuh. Read this storyline FAQ at gamefaqs, it will CLEARLY prove that the Tiberian and the RA universe is linked. No one could just think up so many information regards the matter for it to be some fanfic.

http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/dosw...quer_story.txt

Well, RA2 totally doesnt fit into it, but still. It perfectly links together C&C, RA1, and TS.

Why not have branched timelines? The C&C universe is an alternate history anyway, so who's to say RA2 doesn't split the timeline?

It really doesn't matter whether the timelines are linked in my opinion, unless we see some sort of crossover game (which I think is just retarded).

Delicious boxart!

Erotic release date!

Special Kane Edition!

Also, for anyone still skeptical about whether the alien faction (hopefully the Scrin) will be playable or not, we have pretty much direct confirmation now:

Box Art is shitty. What happened to the regular C&C look with reflection in the soldier's goggles? And why does the "Kane Version" bring useless shit?

I think i might get the Kane edition just on the basis of its box art. Higgins? Conrad? Is there supposed to be some kind of tie in with the story? And I agree with Indigo-1 about its design, what in hell happened to the nameless soldier with the reflective goggles? Is this change in style indicative of a possible change in gameplay from awesome to undeniably EA-shittastic gameplay?

I must admit I'm a sucker for the bonus DVD. Depending on the extra cost, I might pick up the Kane Edition. The only reason I'm excited about C&C3 is the return of the live action cutscenes, so these deleted scenes and blooper reel just seem all the more interesting.

Well, I just got into the whole C&C thing - got the preorder bonus cuz i was bored - never really tried it before, it's been good for someone who misses good RTS games. I'll probably get C&C3, depenign on what the final requirements are...

I'm pretty much psyched about this new C&C Game. Normally I am quite critical of EA and it's games, but from various interviews, previews, and stories about the game, for once I have a genuinely good feeling about something EA is doing. What brings me to this conclusion are all the stores I've been reading about how the game will be alot more like the originals. Were going back to FMV's, classic factions, and heck were getting the old Kane back, what more could you want? The screenshots look superb, though that's no surprise since EA, no matter how bad a game may be, always manages to look good if it's EA's doing. The biggest of all these factors is probably Kane. The original actor for Kane who was rehired for this sequel recently had an interview with Gamespot. The link can be found here. In it Joe Kucan, Kanes actor, makes referenecs to how devout a fan of the originals the director of this game seems to be. This certainly adds credibility to the series if one of the original guys coems out and works for the new team.

Basically, if your doubting this because it's EA you have good reason and I don't blame you. I do think that C&C 3 is probably going to be worth giving a shot though. I could of course be wrong, but I have a very good feeling about it. The only thing I am worried about is the new alien faction, the Scrin. From the Gamespot preview it seems they will wield some very powerful weapons in the late-game and I'm concerned it may be slightly off-balance. We'll have to see though, they haven't said much on potential new units for GDI and NOD to counter the Scrin.

The demo is out as we speak. Got it pre-loaded already and was just waiting on the thing to get decrypted. Installed it, but don't have time to play right now ;)

Best episodes will always be the first one : Tiberium Dawn :p

Excellent. I didn't know that it was out already. I'll have to see about downloading right now. I'll post back later with impressions.

I've played the demo...

The demo includes the first GDI mission, as well as a skirmish mode that is limited to the GDI faction on a single map. Fair enough, demo and all.

I started with the campaign obviously.

Prologue Spoilers



The game begins you with a standard tutorial'ish first mission. You learn about how to construct things and train units and all that jazz. EA has returned C&C to it's original formula, that is there are no mobile construction dozers or whatever like in Generals. You start with an MCV and deploy that, which will then allow you to begin building structures within your build zone. You are quickly introduced to the basic infantry unit, and to engineers as you are ordered to go and destroy a small Nod outpost in the area. If you have played any C&C besides Renegade and Generals you will feel right at home by this point already. Once the Nod outpost is destroyed, you are given a view of the full map which will reveal a rather huge, well defended Nod base to the north of your base. Upon making your first futile attack, your mission coordinator will give you access to the Ion Cannon. Super weapons are interesting in C&C because they keep changing from version to version. Originally the Ion Cannon was fired and forgotten. Then in the next C&c you fired it and could guide it with your mouse. Then it went back to the old formula. What's interesting to note is that the ion cannon was always a directed beam that destroyed what it touched. In C&C 3 though, the Ion Cannon is deployed, and after 5 seconds or so of pretty graphics, blows up an entire area with ought supervision, kind of like a huge bomb. That's a tad disappointing for me, as the Ion Cannon loses a bit of uniqueness and becomes just a generic super weapon. Well have to see what they've done with Nod and the Alien super weapons and how those operate.

On any case, there are no 'generals' that will give you skills. Rather, as you build certain structures, support items are given to you. For example, building an airfield will allow you to, for a price of about $1000, deploy 4 Orcas on any target, even if you haven't built any. This can be done once every 5-10 minutes or so. Another example, once you have built these new infantry units I have forgotten the name of, you can randomly deploy them for a fee and every so often to any explored area on the map. So EA has essentially combined the Generals features into the classic formula, but tossed out the arbitrary "you need this general to do this" thing. It's all on you now to build the right stuff, and it does cost a small amount of money to launch these 'special attacks'.

The FMV's, to wrap this all up, are pretty well done it seems. The actors all seem to be giving it some effort, though I suppose no matter how hard anyone tried nothing will live up to my nostalgic memories of the original Tiberian Dawn FMV's. Who knows, those things could have been the crappiest FMV's ever, and yet it's been so long all I can remember were my impressions as a 12 year old watching them for the first time >_> Kane as I said earlier is back with the same actor as in Dawn and Sun. He appears briefly in the demo, and we can only look forward to alot more of him in the full release.

I'd say the game based on the demo was certainly not a screw up or a tried and true "milk it and dump it" strategy EA has come to been known for. It seems the developers have honestly tried to bring C&C into the modern day with impressive graphics, sound, and game play mechanics.

My only complaint as of right now is that all the infantry units blend in with one another, and it can at some times be hard to distinguish a rocket trooper from a standard infantry dude. I'm sure more playing will help develop an eye for it though.

This game is awesome, it is made of win and god. That is all.

But no, seriously its an awesome game, its been a long time since I've heard "We require more silos" or "low power" and having my mini-map blank out on me, its good to be hearing those things again, even if in-game they are bad news. But its 4am where I am (up playing the game, duh) so I gtg. I'll come back to this later though.

I have been playing this pretty much all day, and have been thoroughly enjoying it. Looks as if EA have done it right this time.

The graphics look really good, there is a good selection of units at hand (I only had GDI to choose from though), and the AI seems to be very good. I had a skirmish game on easy, and the enemy kept attacking different parts of my base. Nothing much you might say, but it impressed me.

And the FMV sequences are back, and they are brilliant.

So after having toyed around with the game for quite a bit I think EALA has done something right for once and has successfully revived the old C&C games (despite them being a different crew than from Westwood). The gameplay is fast-paced just like previous titles, it really feels like C&C again.

Unlike most other EA titles C&C 3 has an amazing amount of polish to it. For example units when selected visibly are at ease, grenadiers do jumping jacks, riflemen and snipers do sit-ups, and zone troopers apparently take part in some shows of strength their suits lend them. And most interestingly enough, Juggernaut's, when not selected act very bird like. I've caught a few of my Juggernauts scratching themselves (really just raising a leg and scratching a place underneath their pilot cockpit) or using their cannons like a beak and pecking at the ground. I don't know if the pilots are delusional or if these are just them showing off their piloting prowess.

In anycase if you select these units while they're slacking you'll see them immediately snap up to attention and ready to move. And while Company of Heroes is best known for its context sensitive unit speech I've seen a few instances where my units have said something rather related to what I want them to do, for example when I order my mammoths to pull back during an attack they smartly acknowledged saying "pull back to base" I was rather surprised. And their replies sound a lot more frantic and rushed in battle. Although I have to admit their new way to deciding when the play the music (faster paced music during battle, bit slower paced during base build-up) irked me a little since I've always like its fast paced music regardless of what I was doing. Who knows maybe they'll change it for final release.

I don't think anything needs to be said about its live-action sequences, whatever there is to be said has been said, its good to see them follow tradition than buck to the trend like they did in Generals with in-game sequences.

As for game balance, I think they did a fair job here. GDI really has no need to field infantry late game, NOD simply has too many answers to infantry later on (Black hand, flame tanks, confessors w/hallucination grenades, the work of the devil) GDI infantry simply can't do much later on, only units of remote use are the sniper, grenadiers and zone troopers, but ultimately they're all still rather useless, either burned down or killing themselves. Then you factor in the fact that GDI's panzers can pretty much do what they do but without the vulnerabilities seals their fate beneath GDI's tank treads.

NOD meanwhile really has to rely on the stealthy tricky tactics most people don't seem to grasp (although the AI does). Just a few mammoth tanks can totally blast through any NOD defense that doesn't sport Obelisks of Light. Even NOD's avatar warmech, their much talked about walker unit, cannot go toe to toe with the mammoth (even when I had the avatar pick up a laser beam from one of those beam trucks). But I have to admit, many of NOD's powers can really help make sure the GDI player is pretty damned confused.

It also appears in C&C3 NOD has the upper hand in aircraft as well. While GDI is limited to 4 air slots per airfield, NOD's Venom doesn't take up an airfield slot, meaning they can have as many venoms as they can buy. Which in my opinion really shifts things to NOD's favor in the air. NOD's lighter units now are also able to call in Carryalls which for me has always really been an exclusive part of GDI's arsenal. Previously since NOD units were so fast the only way GDI could even come close to matching such mobility was using a transport or their orcas, but now that NOD has both their own carryall and Venoms (which hit both ground and air) things are now different.

Some of my whinings aside its still a great game. Just a shame it takes the form of a wall of text.

Today Evil Avatar featured a way to play as Nod in the demo withought hacking the game.

I've tried this and it works. The only thing wrong is that the computer voice lady doesn't come on for Nod (The one that gives you tidbits like "silos needed" and such.

The music guys, what about the music? It must not be anything short of fuckawesome megawin in a C&C game.

I think the demo is to early to base an opinion on the music. That said, what I have heard from the demo:

The main menu music features soft, sort of apocalyptic relaxing music. There is only one music track in-game for the demo. This music will speed up or slow down based on what's happening on the map. What's funny is I turned my music level all the way up and the music is still kind of quiet no matter whether it's in slow or fast mode. Unfortunately, this particular track is forgettable at best. You probably won't even really realize it's there.

Thats true... I did the first demo stage and I barely noticed the music. That will be one of my beefs with the game.

The second are the controls. They need to revamp that bigtime, or at least make the mouse customizable too. I want my classic C&C style left-button-select-and-move and not left button select right button move. The hotkeys are also stupid, but those are at least configurable (I tried opening the build tab with Q and I ended up selecting every unit on the map, etc).

Otherwise the demo was solid. A lot of eyecandy, the graphics feel like an Xbox360 game which isnt bad. Was running it at full speed in 1280x960 with medium quality settings, on a Radeon 9600. It needs a lot of ram though, 512mb is a very optimistic minimum config for the game, I'd say you need 1gb for smooth gaming.

Anyone here have any luck whatsoever with Brutal AI? There are a few people on EA's C&C forums who have claimed to have beaten brutal AI. However for the most part it seems for the average player Brutal AI is just too much. Anyone here above the curve and has been able to take down brutal yet?

This game is dope, but it keeps crashing on my piece of crap machine. I'd love the 360 version.

I just tried Brutal, and I got slaughtered. They had over 200 units, I managed a measly 20. I think I managed to destroy two of their tanks before I died. I think I'll be sticking to Easy and Medium for now.

I'm hearing that C&C3 is using an updated version of the Generals engine. That doesn't bother me any because it's C&C... come on. What does concern me though especially with the more recent posts is the stupid AI settings. Since Generals the AI always had a steep curve from Easy to Medium and then like no difference from Medium to Brutal. Easy was way too boring and Medium you would have the 7th Nation Army coming at you before you got your barracks up. But yeah, has the curve been flushed out in this one?

(I'm trying to get the demo to find out but FileFront's demo is corrupted and FilePlanet is.. well... FilePlanet)

I've played Easy and Medium so far, and basically:

Easy - Computer probably won't build air units, will not build superweapons. Finally, the computer will not build large tanks, such as the Nod Walker and the GDI Mammoth and Juggernaut. Computer will try and attack you every so often with light tanks and infantry though, so you do need to have some defenses. I can beat easy in under a half hour.

Medium - Computer builds air units and large tanks, and will also build superweapons, but the superweapon is built at a reasonable, not exaggerated speed. On the demo map, the computer will more than likely manage to get a second smaller base built at one of the tiberium fields before you have time to prevent it effectively, but if you play it right you can still destroy it before it get's to beefy. On the other hand, the computers main base will actually be somewhat difficult to crack, but certainly doable if you just get a squad of about 6 or so large tanks and some air support. Average time it takes me to beat medium is 30 minutes to an hour.

Well, on Easy Balanced, I got 1-2 attacks every 5 minutes or so. Nothing special, it was just a question of time till I won.

On Medium Turtler, the cpu actually went and took one of the tiberium fields in the corner, dropped minebombs every once in a while (mainly only at the beginning), put at least 1 infantry squad in most buildings, had Stealth units hiding in obscure corners of the map, sent in suicide squads and gunner copters regularly, and built a Temple of Nod. By the time it built the temple though, I already had 10 mammoths, ORCA bombers, Juggernauts (did anyone else notice the Juggernaut, bitch meme making way into the game?), and an Ion Cannon blast ready for discharge.

Man, whats with the Ion Cannon anyway? It's pretty, but its not the instant death sniping from the heavens like in the previous games. Just a regular base nuker.

On Brutal Turtler, I lost my harvesters by the time I managed to build a second mammoth, had my Tiberium Spikes bombed, got minefields on my tiberium fields every 4 minutes, and got a bunch of other nasty shit (buggies with lasers equipped, wtf) after which I quit the game. You could say I got my ass kicked. I'll try Hard Balanced, maybe that ones still beatable.

To people who have the game crashing, I got that only when I had Virtual Memory disabled and run out of RAM (I have about 500 mb free most of the time, and that was NOT enough for the game).

C&C3 looks like an average rts game so far, puts a lot of emphasis on combining units (at least for the Nod, GDI can just chunk out railgunner Mammoths endlessly), has a TON of nuisance superweapons, but not much else. The controls are missing a ton of things (pressing building tab to instantly place a completed building, or hiding the menu tab altogether), there's NO DEFORMABLE TERRAIN (this was one of the best things in Tibsun, really), not much music to speak of so far, and I wouldn't mind being able to zoom out the camera more.

Additional Spam:
OK, I've run a fight against Hard Balanced. It was the first time my base got penetrated and I actually had support units lost. I don't remember any Mine Airstrikes, but I got a lot of Scorpion tanks at the beginning, troops of 6-7 of them. They didn't manage to do any series damage though, only destroyed a few minor buildings (secondary barracks, armory, one tiberium spike), and once I had Sonic Towers and Mammoths out, I got nothing but suicide squads and random bombers attacking. And a bunch of War mecha patrols and an occasional Commando (they got killed pretty much the instant they got in firing range).
Mental note: the AA turrets are pathetically weak. 6 of them barely scratched a bomber, while 2 Mammoth rocket volleys obliterated them on one go.
The AI didn't build any superweapons this time, but its outpust was a lot more massive in size, and used infantry in buildings a lot more creatively.
Once I survived the initial few attacks, I just had to march through the map with Mammoths though.

Mammoths are way overpowered by the way, and NOD doesnt seem to have ANY units which are interesting AND effective. Tiberian Sun had Cyborgs, UNDERGROUND flame tanks and apcs, mutant vehicle hijackers, artilleries... this game has weak prism tank ripoffs and mechas with gimped weapons on them.

I just managed to beat the living shit out of fucking Brutal AI, took me a whole day of gameplay + theorycrafting but I pulled it off. It is only now that I type this that I realized I didn't take screens shots. Now I just have to say this:

Brutal AI can be beat.

In anycase while I cannot produce any verifiable evidence of my great feat there has been a slew of videos at http://forums.ea.com/mboards/forum.j...0&forumID=2381 with people with videos showing them showing brutal AI who's boss.

I for one am glad the Ion cannon can effectively kill things now. In the game I managed to beat brutal AI with it was instrumental in clearing the path for my mammoths the start the steamrolling.

While this isn't totally direct at you, but it seems Nod players have this wierd idea in their heads that tells them Nod is supposed to be able to go toe-to-toe with GDI in terms of tank treads. Unfortunately for them they quickly find that is not the case at all. Instead try harassing GDI's expansionary and tiberium harvesting efforts (nailing surveyors, harvesters and refineries) and seeing to it that GDI doesn't get mammoths or doesn't get enough of them to smash you in the face.

Compared to Generals I think the AI's curve is much smoother, although in all honesty each level merely dictates how often the AI attacks, how fast it techs, how long it will really try to bring you down, and as always, how great of a money hack it has. From my gameplay I'd break it down like this:

Easy= relatively few pathetic attacks, techs rather slowly, economy on par with the player. Turns into a veggie after you cripple it.

Medium= throws a few fairly decent attacks, techs faster than easy, economy effectively on par with the player. Turns into a semi-veggie after you cripple it.

Hard= throws far more attacks towards the player, techs fairly nicely, still slower than the average player (especially a GDI player reaching for GGtanks) Economy better than player's. Basically turns into Easy AI after you cripple it.

Brutal = This is where the AI gets interesting , Brutal throws nearly endless attacks of low tech units at you (imagine trying to hold back a swarm of locust with a MG) money hacks economy is jumped up on crack, techs according to the player. What do I mean by this? Early on (read: pre-tech-center units/defenses) the AI will throw hordes of militiamen, rockets and scorpions with a few raider buggies thrown in the mix. This will indefinitely continue until you start pulling out sonic emitters (imagine having your fly swatter being replaced with a flamethrower) and the mammoth (imagine dual wielding flame throwers against the locust swarm). At that point the AI techs up a bit to flame tanks, black hand infantry, a few avatars and the occasional beam truck. All this with still a few low tech attacks thrown in. Give it more time and it goes up to stealth tanks, more avatars, more black hand and eventually it will plop down a temple of Nod. Still puts up a fight after you cripple it.

So while easy-medium-hard this a rather nice curve Brutal AI seems to be a slightly different animal. It should also be noted that a few people on EA's forums have reported Brutal AI "learning" or adapting and I myself have seen a few incidents that could be passed of as "learning."

All in all brutal AI has been for me at least one of the better AI's I've faced. Even if it can really be boiled down to a Hard AI with a fat bank with a "Kill player" command line constantly running through it.

If your bored or just out for a interesting way of play, try setting it to Brutal and Steamroller, but add a -95 penalty for the opponent. Your units will be insanely powerful but the enemy will still have a massive headstart and will try to "steamroll" you with armies, which you'll cut through like a hot knife through butter :)

I was playing this with another friend today and we tried to beat each other by trying to improve the stats/outcome each time. We we're aiming for a short completion time, collect the highest amount of credits, most kills and using the lowest amount of structures/units.

=

As for the game music, I found it to blend more into the background and sounded boring most of the time. Ofcourse it's too early to make a final conclusion since the demo doesn't contain all of the tracks but currently, I find it to be far from memorable and epicness like we're used too. The style of the new composer feels pretty amateurish but this could be linked to the fact that he never worked on a game before. He did do soundtracks for a nice amount of movies and series but it feels like he hasn't mastered the right technique for pleasing the ears of a gamer. The CnC main theme sounds like a remix from the one used in Tiberian Dawn, I hope his other tracks are not trying to copy Frank Klepacki's style. This however could also result in some nice suprises so who knows.

The game itself is pretty good and well balanced. I really liked the introduction of training entire squads instead of solo soldiers, it does make battles more intensive and exciting as more units get ingame within shorter periods of time. The tech tree is impressive and "to be expected" like from the classic CnC games and I was also pleased to see all those upgrades and other additions for both buildings and units, it's well thought out. Graphics are top of the line as expected from a new game and the physics are particulary noticable with all kinds of destruction. Tracers for weapon fire make things more easy to follow. Most of the features are taken from Generals, this works really good and offers a wide range of new tactics and strategy when planning your move(s). The revamped UI and the addition of a left side-bar for specials is awesome as it saves alot of precious time to search for things you need. It does the job for rapid decisions. :)

Some naming mistakes, bits of the tech tree and game art does annoy me as a CnC veteran. For example, the GDI have the ability to train grenadiers AND rocket soldiers. Wtf? The latter was always a NOD thing, the GDI are not supposed to have any rocket soldiers. Also, some GDI units possess the stealth ability which is another trait only meant for the NOD as it made them unique. The NOD Airstrip is also nowhere to be found. What happened to the sub-terranean ability of the NOD flame tank? I hope to see it return in the full version. Also, many units we got to know in Tiberian Sun/Firestorm are missing in CnC3 but they are probably in the full game, or maybe planned in future expansions.
As for the naming errors, the only thing noticable so far was the "War Factory" which should be called "Weapons Factory" since War Factories are a thing of Red Alert.
Regarding some of the game art, I found most of the unit/structure pictures to be slightly cartoony but it's nothing critical though one of the NOD units, blackhand soldier, looks like a fucking joke. He is a cheap impression of Darth Vader with a pair of red eyes/sensors sticked on his forehead and doesn't look original at all. Could have been done better. Other noticable things we're the missing protective gear/armor for NOD soldiers but this could be related to a increased knowledge of Tiberium in the 3rd war and thus they do not fear it as much unlike the GDI. Back in Tiberian Sun they al wore protective suits except for the cyborg units who are infused with Tiberium. I think it was better to stay with this idea.

All I mentioned above is nothing critical really, new players would have absolutely no problems with this but these are such small and simple details... why didn't they bother? I mean, CnC is a pretty big title especiall for the $$$. This could always be updated in the full game and if not, future game updates or fan mods will always be available as second options.



I'm probably whining too much now but I really believe it will become 99% perfect when they fix all of this, atleast in my eyes and those of many fans. As a non-Westwood produced game i'm thoroughly impressed and I hope that future CnC games, hopefully Red Alert 3, will get the same quality treatment from now on.

I'm not a big fan of the controls as well. They're missing a lot of important hot key functions. The current ones aren't that well placed either.

I never liked the deformable terrain in TS. To me, it was a complete mess, and it screwed up unit movement.

I like how they took the Company of Heroes format for SuperWeapons. They made them cost money, which is a good idea considering that the ones in Generals / BFME were completely overused. Particularly BFME2, where timing the use of the Powers at the right time was becomes the whole point of the game later on.

I hear a lot of complaints about the Rail Guns, but in my opinion the EMP blasts of Nod's Raider Buggies is just as dangerous. Those buggies cost only 400, and can shut down vehicles / structures with good radius. 2500/400 is 6.25 Buggies per Mammoth. I'm sure with 6 buggies, you can charge a Mammoth and shut it down.

Avatars are also looking to be very good units. I can see myself combining units that are about to die to not "waste" them.

The new Ion Cannon is definitely impressive, so good in fact that it makes the Nuke look like crap.

I agree about Nod. People expect to just build tanks and run the other guy over. That isn't what Nod is about. Their units are faster, and better for harassment. I can't wait to abuse those Stealth Tanks. Probably my biggest complaint, is their lack of a infantry transport outside of the air unit. That air transport is terribly annoying to use.

I was also disappointed in Nod losing the Airstrip. I'm glad that the subterranean abilities are gone, because they were just absolutely ridiculous in TS. I don't see a problem with GDI having a bit of stealth, as Nod is still far superior in this category.

Overall, I enjoyed the demo. I've always been more focused on the singleplayer side for C&C3, and I'm relieved that it looks to be awesome. The gameplay itself is solid, but after Generals, BFME1 & 2, I have no faith in them producing a truly "competitive" multiplayer experience. It's been proven that EA doesn't update their games, so I don't expect them to start now. I think it's hilarious that the game's going to be in WCG 2007.

Played the demo, can't really decide if it's going to be WOW like the original C&C. The FMV's look promising. I'm looking forward to that at least.

Gameplay wise I'm not sure yet. I mean we are talking EA here, so I kinda expect shake my fists when the time comes. I'm at least happy I'm able to run the game. When I saw the system requirements I was worried I wasn't able to run it at all, but it seems to run alright.

So far what I don't like is the cooldown abilities cost money, and quite frankly don't seem all that great. Not too happy about how all the buildings look either. I often had to hoover over a building and wait for the tooltip to show up just to figure out what that was. Can't help but wish Frank Klepacki was back either. This music doesn't stand out at all.

I think i'll go buy that C&C collection and go play all the previous games before I start the new one. I don't remember much of TS, but didn't Kane die? err...twice?

err...brutal AI + GDI is not good. Just when I thought i survived the ongoing onslaught of attacks and set up a decent defense line, he came with 15 juggernaunts. Honestly what do you do against 15 juggernauts? even without a sniper they're overpowered.

I like how you can capture them afterwards though. I assume it works the same with avatars, but I've never seen them make them.

Hey the Nuke is cool! lol

I personally think the Nuke is more spectacular than the Ion cannon. On my crappy graphics card the particle cloud that enveloped the screen caused some serious as heck lag. While that was disappointing, the whole thing was so freaking cool, it really feels like a nuclear explosion.

Just wish the mushroom cloud was bigger and had more oomph.

I don't think it does actually. If I remember right I was using the NOD trick and had one of my avatars blown up. I think they just disappear.

Also, yes, Kane dies. Multiple times throughout the various games. That's part of his character though, he is a god :P

Spent the last week playing the other C&C games. They better explain some things in C&C3 about Kane. He was in Red Alert and Tiberian Sun. Those games are like a 100 years apart. He dies at least twice.

Just what the hell is Kane? He better not turn out to be a alien.

I sure as hell hope they wont explain who he is. Not until they hand out the series to Petroglyph.

Yeah, funny. EA giving?

Just hope that Petroglyph comes up with something similiar to C&C eventually. They have most of the original crew, including Frank. So there's definately potential. Frank actually replies to your emails too, he's a cool guy.

See what a NOD AI does on Brutal. I got attacked by twenty-something laser helicopters, 5 Avatars, and a bunch of other land units, AT THE SAME TIME. His base on the other hand was protected by 10+ Obelisks, and he regularly used bombers to harass my just-made tanks, and dropped mines on my biggest group of mammoths. (interestingly though, it had next to no air defense, I could swoop in and out to destroy his Temple without getting many hits)

I wish Mammoths would auto heal to at least half power like they did in, um, EVERY C&C game so far.

I've seen Avatar husks stay there after battle, I've had no luck grabbing one yet, though. I'll give it a try.

Also, Normal AI is much better then Hard AI. Brutal AI is nightmarish.

Yeah, I know - I mailed Frank too many times. Cool guy, wish he would own the rights for his music so he could release all the less known c&c tracks. The Flash player on his is just not good enough.

A steady income is the key to beating the brutal AI. Build tons of refineries and I'm talking about 4-5 of them in every base. But focus on building them around the corner sites since the tiberium in your main base will quickly deplete. Also make sure to build a crane or two so you can build multiple refineries at once.
Ignore base defenses and tech up fast with your money, you want the Tech Center + railgun upgrades ASAP.
Hold off the first wave of incoming attacks by sending rocket infantry to garrison the buildings. Once you've got the upgrades you're safe. Build sonic and AA turrets to defend your bases and keep those mammoth's rolling.

Yup thats what I did. Also 2-3 troops to protect the tib spikes cause the AI is constantly trying to sieze them. Bombing out the buildings in the middle of the map also helps.

Strange tho, once I did that, the CPU stopped attacking - and it built so many buildings that it had no space for refineries on the other corner, even tho it had it protected rock solid. I basically turtled him out with Ion Cannons.

And oh yes, you can sieze Avatar husks with an engineer. The husks blow up after one shot tho.

I beat them the same way I beat the normal AI, it just takes longer. The first 30 minutes or something stupid like that I spent just defending my base with shitloads of towers. After a while I'll start to pump out some tanks and take the 2 tiberium fields, and then the base itself.

What pisses me off the most is GDI juggernaut attacks. They are SO cheap. it's also VERY annoying when your up against NOD and he builds like 12 of those stealth generators. 12! all packed near each other. I'm just glad there's no cheap underground APC like tiberian sun. I so fucking hated those.

And those laser gunships you talked about. I started using those. They are awesome when you get the laser upgrade. They don't need to rearm either.

Actually I liked the Underground units. It was downright scary when I carefully planned out a Jumpjet Infantry attack from a relatively unprotected angle in Tiberian Sun, and then out of nowhere came a flame tank and burnt 2/3 of my infantry squad.

Underground APCs were also awesome, instant base grabbing. Which can technically be avoided super easily by building PAVEMENT, Dune 2 style, or a MOBILE RADAR UNIT. Pavement also prevented craters, so you wouldn't eventually run out of space on lengthier battles with multiple missle attacks. c&c3 is like a remake of c&c1 and not a sequel to Tiberian Sun. Heck, if it wont have proper single player missions, it will be even less. I want hardcore commando missions and I really hope I'll get them.

That's what I'm looking forward to most from singleplayer in this game. C&C 1 had great solo missions without support from bases (or up until later in the game) and I hope to see a lot of them in C&C 3 too.

Depends, the Brotherhood missions had a tendency to involve more commando stuff than the GDI ones. Even those Nod missions where you actually had a base usually involved finding said base first, which usually was at the other end of the map. This also meant that stumbling upon a GDI base by accident was not a good thing. Actually, stumbling upon any GDI armor was not a good thing. I mean, it could be destroyed in most cases, like that one mission where you have to fight through 2 Mammoths guarding a bridge with a couple bazooka infantry and 2 or 3 bikes, but generally it was better to avoid armor as much as possible.

So the final game is now out, any word from it? Does it have any significant changes from the demo? Especially controls wise, where I can think up 10 or so things which could be improved.

In an hour my download of the game finishes. I'll report back later tonight.

Hm, the game is not that bad. In fact, pretty enjoyable, and the mission design is good enough (although specific goal driven, you can't find backdoors to bases and millions of other interactive things like before). Note that everything you see in the demo pretty much matches the final games' contents, I've found no difference so far, other then Repair mode not being stuck forever.

Low points are the music (Up to like the 10th mission in GDI but I swear I heard maybe 2 tracks so far), the movie script (Kane is portrayed more like Osame Bin Laden instead of Jesus almighty), almost complete lack of Mutants (a running mention of Viscerioids and a capturable Mutant Hive where you can train mad max rejects who DONT HEAL on Tiberium, those are all so far), almost zero diversity in campaign missions (in Tiberian Sun you had to capture media stations, rally mutants, launch underground assaults, protect chemical weapon convoys and Disruptor crystals, steal control codes etc, - in C&C3 you build a base and eliminate NOD, and about 3 commando missions where the goal is similar just with no base). Also the game has NO INTRO.

However, I'm only up to GDI, on the second mission against the Scrin, so things may change. In fact both Scrin missions so far are pretty fucking awesome. And the previous commando missions required a lot of save/load so the difficulty is not bad. I've no idea how the NOD mission will play, it may be totalitarian mutant commandofest for all I know.

So far, the game is good. Not as clever and as atmospheric as Tiberian Sun, but a good game nevertheless.

I'm up to the seventh mission of GDI, and on 'normal', things are pretty easy. How many missions do the GDI and Nod have? They are fun though, there just is too much guidance and they are too easy. 12 mammoth tanks up the ass of the Nod always solves the problem, especially when they are upgraded with a railgun.

Am I the only one who couldn't get a copy because my EB Games was sold out? It pisses me off. Oh well, picked up God of War II instead, so I got enough opportunities to get rid of my anger, even though I haven't had time to play much. I hate it when I have assignments but want to do something else.

Too much guidance is quite annoying, but some missions are actually hard for a while, mostly the ones where you have to protect something (engineer, MVC).

Let me tell you though, you'll be hardcore fucked by the Scrin if you only use Mammoths. They are just way too slow against 23492739482 beehives and mini ufos.
APCs with Zone troopers and rocket troops work quite well against them - they are fast, and due to the Zone Troopers, they can pack quite a punch with a very high rate of fire. They get killed often tho, but in 10+ packs they are effective at wiping out smaller bases.

I only attack with 24 units at least, so I guess I'm a bit secured.

So far I just pumped out 12 [don't know their names - the missile-vehicles for the GDI] and 12 APCs and I'm good. If possible, I use the Mammoths. Ground units seem to be complete useless, unless you're defending a base amirite?

Then again, this is only mission 7. So my question is - how much missions for the GDI and for the Nod?

Box says 30 missions (gdi+nod+scrin combined) and since the game came out like THIS FUCKING DAY, I can't tell you for sure if thats true or not.

Well I thought you said you were doing the Scrin missions, and those are only 4 missions long. And to play them, you have to finish both GDI and Nod campaigns.

I'm almost at the end of the game. 3 more scrin missions and it's over. No interest in playing it online to be honest.

Overall I'm pleased with the game. I expected the game to run extremely poorly, but it wasn't as bad as I expected. When you have like 60 units on screen you notice it slowing down a bit, and the nuke particals are bad, and the rare slowdown, but other then that it ran way better then I expected.

The missions were actually pretty good. Some are quite challenging and for me lasted up to 3 hours. Not too many of those crappy suicide missions that the original always had shitloads of, you know, the ones where you start with 4 tanks, 2 buggies and 10 infantery and you have to perform a miracle. The maps looked good, and there was usually something special on a map. It's always pretty straightforward though, destroy this, destroy that, etc.

I also like how for the first time, there's no different endings, they all tie in the end, unlike the previous 2 games where there were different endings, which were pointless, since they always went with the GDI endings anyway.

My biggest problem with the game probably, is the fact the AI cheats so obviously. It has unlimited money, gets reinforcements out of nowhere, and stealth towers are pointless, since he appearently can see right through it. I'm pretty sure his build times are a lot lower then you as well.

There's some things you can't help but miss as well, like you can't build walls. Engineers die way too easily, pretty much always in 1 shot, and the music is horrible. Little things like that.

Its been a while since the game has come out, I'm overall I'm pretty glad I got it. However I fear for this game's staying power, especially when it comes to its online play. I've played a few games online and all my fears are pretty much confirmed, its just tanks everywhere. And if not a sea of tanks then its just spamming of one particular unit, predators or mammoths for GDI, scorp tanks for NOD or devastators/PAC for Scrin. Its pointless to try anything less. But lets be honest, all past C&C games have basically devolved into tank spams online, unconditionally, so why lie, its really no surprise, I'm just glad I didn't hold my breath over what might happen online.

I agree, its pointless to build engineers early game to cap towers because the AI immediately knows where they are and sends a buggy or APC to deal with it, its easier to just let the AI have the damned structure or capture it later into the game. However the AI's maphack isn't exactly just the fog of war being lifted, the AI simply knows that there are units at that particular location and what type they are (infantry, armor, air) but not the exact unit. But its not like it really matters, the damned AI still has a map hack.

Does anybody else feel that GDI really got nuked when it comes to air? I mean the mammoth tank's missles are really just there to keep the orcas and venoms away. The pitbull takes hits worse than a little girl, and the APC isn't much better. The anti-air turret is total trash, and the firehawk is the only decent thing at taking out air, but its pricey and has limited ammo and isn't the most durable aircraft on the field.

I dunno, maybe its just me being bitchy.

Well i agree with you on the whole no walls, engineers being fragile and bad music. But the game wouldn't be very much fun without inumerable odds to play against. Like that mission where



ya, it's times like those that make the game really frustrating and also alot of fun because you figure out all these tactics, and don't just say lets build 9 avatars 20 stealth tanks 8 vertigo bombers and see what happens. I dunno, thats just my two cents on it.

I've read a lot of praise from various reviews regarding this games. I just need to confirm something though:

Is the AI like Company of Heroes' AI? No turfing allowed?

Curious because in CoH a panzer can attack you while you're still building your own mech shop. Is the AI in this game pretty much the same? Because if it does, then it'll be pretty entertaining.

Mammoths missiles aren't worth noting at all. They fire 4 once every 15 seconds or something. pitbulls die too easily, so the only real option I found was APC's with a missile squad in it. The APC itself already is a AA and with the missile squad they're even better. I only used Firehawks later on against the big scrin ships.

Nod is a lot easier. Their AA defense is a lot better, they have stealth tanks, venoms and attack bikes.

My favorite mission no doubt was the GDI mission where you had a base with limited power and you had to manage your base defenses by switching them on and off. The AI spammed a lot of vehicles from the NE base, Infantery from the SW base and Aircraft from the SE base. It was awesome.

God that was a pain in the ass to finish, finally managed it the other night though, on about my sixth run through.

I'm liking it though, I just think that there isn't enough variation between the skirmish maps, they all seem to look the same to me, and the music, it sucks big time.

Mammoth rockets ALWAYS existed so the thing isnt completely helpless against aircraft, but they never had any real practical value (except in Red Alert where they had homing properties, mauled infantry, and rate of fire was same as main cannon).
APCs are basically Battle Fortress Lite, so they are the best anti-anything as far as defense goes.

Also it's funny that you can still mass build the same units and wipe out cpu bases in one go:
GDI - Mammoths with railgun
NOD - Venoms with lasers (like 50+ of them, they are super cheap)
Scrin - mass airforce with forcefields

hah...battle fortress, yeah they're always was always risky to use them though with those cheap yuri mind control units, so I usually put in a few seals to nuke all infantery, that's at least yuri clones out of the picture. Overlords from generals had a bunker you could put on there and put 5 missile guys in there, but I usually put on gattling guns instead.

And yes, venoms ftw. 50 of them, and it's you win.

Man, does anybody know how to beat Brutal GDI in Skirmish? It throws multiple dozens of tanks at me by the time i have one Mammoth. And after that, its literally a constant barrage of tanks and rocket soldiers, without stop. Well, constant up to the point where he sends Juggernauts and Mammoths at me cause thats when I die.

3 on 3 skirmish with AI opponents and allies, all set to balanced.
Turtlers are actually easy to beat, as long as you can nix their superweapons (kamikaze airforce works for that).

Whenever I tried that, by the time I had a few scorpions or predators, he had 12 juggernauts. The only thing I found that worked, is make base defenses, shitloads of them, until you had your own force ready. Brutals just rush too good and too fast to otherwise stand a chance, especially GDI.

OK other question then. Does anybody else had their Harvesters stuck? As in, not moving, not harvesting, doing nothing even when I tell them to. This often happens on bigger matches (3on3, 4on4), and most often with the NOD and Scrin harvesters.

The harvesters stop harvesting when you need more silos, but I don't think that's what you mean. I don't think I had that.

I did however quite often have a war factory screw up, and the result was EVERY single unit that came out of it, got "stuck" and just couldn't do shit. Even after you sell the factory they still won't budge.

The one where they were all stuck in ONE place? I got that once, with about 6 mammoths. At the very least, they made heckofa powerful stationary defense (before they got nuked).

Well that's what I thought as well, but they wouldn't even shoot properly, like there was a invisible wall around them. It wasnt mammoths though, predators, but still it's a stupid bug.

Having finally got to fool around with this at the local Virgin, I'll agree with you, this is a fun mission. There's a rather interesting strategy I ran across on GameFAQs which makes it even more fun; here is one of several threads on the matter.

Yeah, I'm not surprised a lot have trouble with it. 2 of my friends were stuck at that part for ages. I had a blast with it. I didn't get the MCV until I destroyed 2 of the NOD bases. Taking over the NE base makes a huge difference.