English dubs versus Original Japanese or Fanboys Need to Grow up and Gtfo
 

Ok.

Anime gets licensed and ported to America Land to be redistributed with a brand spanking new language track called English. Some anime, usually of the shonen variety, get aired on television for children since, you know, that's the demographic. Fans of these shows exist on the Internet and have long been familiar with the original Japanese voices, dialogue, and unedited footage. However, when the same episodes air on western television with English coming from a character's mouth, in addition to some edited for TV violence, they bitch.

Why.

They can still download these episodes online, even if they're licensed. I also like how no matter how decent the dub of an anime is, "nothing beats the original Japanese voice acting." I'm sorry, since when were you an expert in the Japanese performing arts. Do you know what good voice acting is in that language? Do you know what good acting is period in that language?

Dubbing has come a long way in America. 4Kids knows how to milk a series and make a shitload of cash off of a franchise while destroying the source material in the process. However, other studios, like Viz or Geneon, are able to hire decent and occassionally above-average voice actors for their purchased shows.

I just don't understand how 90% of the fanboys bitching can absolutely abhor their native language. The purpose of this thread is to get to the bottom of this bitching. I've always known "why," but I don't see any logic behind that (if there's any at all).

Any haters of dubbed anime willing to step up?

haha. I (someone else) always wanted to make a thread like this. You know me, I dont mind dub or sub. If anything, I was sorta like that back in 2002 when the animes came in Toonami. The only reason i stopped the "fanboy-ism"(which was only 3-5 months of complaining about dub) is cause i noticed the improvement in every dubbing group. Viz, to me, is still new and young when it comes to having a few voice actors here and there but i still give them a chance.

So yeah. Im not one of those fanboys. I bet if anything, they would say how much japanese show more expression into the acting lol.I guess that differs from the american dub :rolleyes:

Basically it's a show of emotion. If the emotion isn't conveyed properly then it cuts the worth of the anime in half.

Where I'm from, dubs are basically for one thing, and for one thing alone: kids. They can't read fast enough so subtitles are not option, and they might not have fully developed the brain functions necessary to process both picture, sound and text at the same time. So I fully understand that 4Kids needs to dub their stuff and I have no problem with that.

But from the age group of 12-13 years and up, which a lot of anime in the US and elsewhere is being marketed to, this shouldn't really be a problem. And that's my reason for disliking dubs: because it's simply unnecessary. It's not that I don't want to have it in my native language, but that I want to have it in the original language, the original version. All these changes are just stupid and pointless in my eyes. And it's not some Japanophile mentality; I don't want to watch Crouching Tiger in English, I don't want to watch STALKER in Swedish or play the Legacy of Kain games in Japanese. I don't want to watch a fullscreen version of a widescreen film, a widescreen version of a fullscreen film or a colourised version of a B&W film. I don't want to watch something that's been censored or edited, where the entire premise has been changed or the music replaced etc. etc.

You don't understand why people don't want to watch anime with dubs, I don't understand why people necessarily have to have dubs for everything when it's perfectly fine in Japanese. Something probably close to 80% of the international movie market is already English-language Hollywood films, isn't that enough?

Then there's another side to it: that it's responsible for some annoying problems with the anime industry. You yourself complained about the price of anime DVDs in the 'buying' thread. Why are they so expensive? Partly because of the cost of dubbing. And for example why won't classic anime get licensed? Because they're often long and it would not be economically feasible to dub it all. So why can't they license and release them only with subs? Because then people bitch and moan that there's no dub, they won't buy it, and hence no one will license it. Same goes for a lot of niche titles.

I don't particularly hate dubs, but of the ones i have heard, they suck so bad. The American dubs just put no effort into the voice and you lose the sense of the character instantly with their monotone voices. At least the Japanese VA's seem to have some emotion in their voices. If you sit down and compare the original anime VA's with the American VA's, you'll be able to tell where they're going wrong. There is only dub i can stand to watch and that is Rurouni Kenshin because that's done pretty well and i don't like the Japanese VA's

It's also not just a problem with the VA's. They rip the animes to shreds by editing out all the blood/violence/swearing which annoys the hell out of me. All they have to do is show it a bit later.

I usually prefer original because the seiyuu sound better and they express the emotions better but there are several dubs that do just as well. Like gundam wing, kenshin, outlaw star, gits, arjuna, vandread. These dubs nail it on the spot. And sometimes the original seiyuu suck and the dub sounds better. For example, I like Inuyasha dub VA better than the original Japanese ones.
(someone is gonna call me a fanboy just because I used the word "seiyuu" XD)

I don't care as much, I prefere JP here, I prefere ENG there.

nah. you're ok. just as long as you dont hate dubs to the point where it gets too annoying ^^;.

My only concern is the dubbing of Beck and how they'll pull it off. Cause there's already engrish in the anime ;p.

I can stand dubs if they manage to convey the emotion accordingly. DBZ (in the later sagas), in my opinion, has been the only one that has done that. Well, that as well as some Studio Ghibli ENG dubbed movies.

The reason why so many people hate ENG dubs is that a lot of it gets lost in translation. The puns, the jokes, the exaggerated voices... A lot of it would've be lost, or even modified and sometimes sounding out of place. Furthermore, a lot of athe dubbers put little effort into the animes when you compare it to something American, such as Walt Disney and etc.

I don't mind dubs as long as the try to keep it to a decent quality. But I refuse to watch it if the also change the music. Although when an anime is dubbed it loses some of its jokes becuase of the translation.
I'm more around 50/50.

I'm subs-only. Every time I see a game with voice acting released in the US, for example, I cringe if it doesn't have a JP voice track. Which is to say, I do so often.

As far as being Americanized and horribly dubbed? I think it ruins it. Not fanboydom if you wanna call it that. I have respect for good animes. Works of art at times. Then they're brought over here and bastardized. When Miyazaki's Kiki's Delivery Service was brought over, you don't wanna know how mad I was at the horrible, HORRIBLE job Disney did with it.

That is a fine example. Miyazaki's works are the best anime have to offer. But to ruin it so like that hurts it in the eyes of everyone else over here.

If I ever watch a foreign film, I watch it with subs. Keeps the original feel to it in my opinion. Hell, I don't even watch the anime that comes on movie-channels now, simply due to their bad dubs.

You know, there is nothing wrong with wanting to watch a foreign work in its original form. If I'm going to watch something foreign, it's subtitles for me.

Well, Beck isn't licensed to my knowledge. I don't think they'll even try.

If they did, I think the only way they could pull off "speaking in japanese/english" is putting a little indicator onscreen (like a blue dot or something) that the character is speaking in another language.

I bet that they're just going to pretend that it doesn't happen in the dub.

I don't mind if it's subbed or dubbed. Way back when I was fist getting into anime, I liked only the dub for the simple reason I started waching anime on TV and I was a little afraid to wach the original audio because I was afraid that it would ruin it. But after maybe 4 years, I stopped my dub only fangirlie-ness and desided to watch the then "virgin" subs on the DVDs I owned. I found out that it wasn't so bad, in some places better then the dub.

I really never got dub haters, though. There's almost always going to be a Japanese track on a DVD (Or in the case of Naruto and a few others, unedited season boxsets with subs on the DVDs) Why can't they just switch to them? I mean it's not like anime that's put out by ADV, Geneon, Bandai, Viz, ETC. are like those put out by 4kids....Names are the same, places are the same, the episode count is intact, so are the episodes. But people still bitch an moan about how they hate dubbed anime and love the original, bootlegged versions no matter how illegal they are after the series has been licenced, or way before that for that matter...

Now there are some dubs out there I dislike. One being Saiyuki Reload. I loved the original ADV dub of Gensomaden Saiyuki, but when Geneon got Reload and Reload gunlock....hearing other people do the voices was a little strange to me. Some of the VAs seemed cast wrong, they didn't fit the characters....the original VAs did some what. I think that's how the purests feel sometimes....they're so used to the Japanese VAs that once they hear the English VAs they sound strange to them and they don't think that they were cast right, or their voices don't match the character or whatever. But like I said above. There is alway a Japanese track like I said....switch to that insted of hollering at other people who may happen to like the dub you hate or dubbed anime in general. You may not like dubs, but other people still may like them.

Sorry when I get on a sub vs. dub rant I can't stop. This post isn't directed at anyone...just my opinion.

This is something that I wonder about every now and then, and I keep coming back to how Americans just love their language so much, so it's impossible for them to be objective about it.

Coming from a country where the only dubbing is done for children's cartoons, I've always watched my movies in their original language, whether it's Japanese, Spanish, Russian, Chinese or whatever. I don't watch "funny" dubs for kung-fu films. It doesn't matter if it's a language I don't understand, just as long as it's the original language the film was made in, because that's what good, professionally made subtitles are for.

Dubbing is for people who can't read, meaning kids. That many countries (Germany, Italy, France, US) have picked this up for foreign films and series alike really doesn't mean it should apply for everyone else as well. I personally think it's an absurd effort, a bid to hide the origin of the movie, just in case some idiot might not want to see it if it's not made by their own country. To cater for people who are not interested in the film enough to bother reading. If you think it's entirely justified to alter a film because you feel uncomfortable hearing a foreign language, or are too lazy to read, there is something seriously wrong with you.

This of course wouldn't be so much of a problem if english wasn't the norm for most games and anime releases outside Japan. Most the anime I get, I need to import from either the US or the UK, which means dub centric, usually dubtitles. Almost always a dub only, if it's a game. I generally support any Finnish releases of anime they bring here (unless I already own the title), but even when stuff gets brought over, the problem remains. The Ghost in the Shell movie on DVD here has Finnish subtitles, but these are made from the english dub instead of the original Japanese script, meaning plenty of lines where none of the characters are talking on the original audio. Besides that, the film copy itself is the US/UK version, meaning the end credits music was changed.

I just see it like this. I don't watch any movies dubbed, I want to see them in the language they were made. I don't want my music dubbed. Why would I want my anime or games dubbed?
Of course, there's plenty of Latin or Indian pop songs that get English versions released as well, which is just as absurd to me.

Heh. its not like America are the only ones that dub anime. We also have the spanish people that dubbed Eva, DBZ,DBGT,Cardcaptor Sakura,Digimon,Lost Universe,Saber Marionette J,etc.

True. Or, they dont have to dub it and just give out the dvds in japanese format with subtitles. If they're allowed that is..

I'm a fan of subbing, and very much against dubbing. I would not choc this up to fanboyism so much as academic interests. I am always learning new words and phrases when I watch subtitled anime, and I am also constantly exposed to different types of talking styles and accents, which would be lost with most dubbings. However, I have not spent my time trying to find out if there has been any good dubbing groups out there, so I guess I have just been stuck in this opinion due to laziness.

Same as. I find the Japanese language interesting so following the subtitles and learning the odd word is great for me. I always listen really hard to what they're saying to see if i can pick up a new word or phrase

It doesn't really matter, depending on two things. First, if it's japanese, there shouldn't be characters using any english whatsoever. I'd like to point out Sonic X here, which has ridiculous sentences like "Nomi miko no setsu ko, no desu wa mudamuda. Okray! No problurm!" or "Watashi wa deku nahi moshi that's cool, my love for you uchi ichi dichi doo" which is just fucking retarded.

I don't care if it's in english, unless it's apparent that the characters would sound better if they hadn't opened their mouthes in the first place. Like, Naruto.

I could care less, as long as the story is conveyed the way it was originally intended to be. Because of this, the first time I watch something I usually watch it dubbed and with the subtitles on. As long as they're pretty similar, I'll keep watching the show in this manner, but if the dub is drastically different (for no reason), I'll just switch over to the Japanese audio. And upon my second viewing of a show, I usually just switch over to the Japanese anyway, just so I can check that out as well.

I have to agree on what Elixir said. It's bad enough hearing english voice actors pronounce Japanese names, but Japanese VAs speaking English is painful as well. It kinda works when it's used for comical effect, but when characters are supposed to pass for foreign or professional scholars or something, it's quite embarrassing.

This doesn't really work, because a lot of the times the subtitles are dubtitles, meaning they repeat the dub script, instead of the original script. Many of the publishers think they already have one translation there with the dub, and that the dub is close enough to the original, so why bother making another just for subtitles (which a large amount of audience won't use). This often works though, with the dub being just a translation, but there's also cases (like the Ghost in the Shell movie) where the distributor takes considerable efforts to alter the script to better fit the dub for english viewers, the alterations meaning not only added swearing and somewhat different lines to counter the japanese metaphors, but also characters talking off-screen when there was no dialogue in the original.
It's true, Ghost in the Shell's dub is still one of the best I've seen, and the work is very professional, but anyone wanting to see the original, it's a bit of a lost cause because the subtitles mirror the localized script instead of the original. It's no wonder if the dub and subtitles happen match, when they are essentially the same thing.

Same with something like ADV's original release of Neon Genesis Evangelion. It's troublesome because finding info on how true the subtitles are to the original script is difficult as it's either not known or not considered important enough to mention.

Well, out of all my DVDs, the only one I have with dubtitles is Princess Mononoke, so this problem doesn't affect me that much (even my GitS DVD doesn't have dubtitles).

I watch anime subtitled most of the time. This is mostly due to the fact that over most English dubs, the original language track just sounds better. I also don't know what the fuck they're saying, so if it's bad acting, I don't know! I'm completely in the dark. Take the Escaflowne anime for example. Dilandau was reduced to an uninspired, whiny psychopath in the dubbed version. In Japanese, his VA is fun to listen to, as she managed to pull off some very interesting nuts as fuck moments.

The dubbed versions of anime are designed for a larger audience. Not everybody wants to read (which still kind of bothers me) and to be frank, nobody gives a shit about watching it in its native language. I usually don't either, so long as a subtitled version of the show or movie I want to watch is available somewhere. But Qwarky brought up something I'd overlooked for a while: altered scripts.

I remember watching Cooler's Revenge, a DBZ movie, in both English and Japanese. FUNimation had a different script in it's dubbed version, but the Japanese script was much different. It was translated, I imagine, so faithfully that there were even some awkward sentences in there. Although interesting, there was nothing plotwise to be missed. Not just because it was DBZ, but because the two scripts were still cohesive.

I can see how this can affect other anime on a larger scale. In that regard, I understand the hate for dubs to an extent. I still think the easier solution, rather than complaining so hard about edited material and the quality of the English VAs when Japanese tracks are usually available, is to just buy/download the stuff.

GTO can be a huge example . Both jokes in japanese and english were different. In my honest opinion, I found the dubbing to be more funny even if David Lucas did a shitload of voices in the anime.

With shows I really like, I try to watch both the subs and dubs, as that usually makes me understand the plot more. I've seriously run across subs with lines that I didn't really understand.

I prefer subs over dubs in most cases, and this isn't only for anime. The problem with a lot of the dubs I've heard is that the voice acting sounds a lot like those plays we used to do in elementary school. It's either overdone or underdone.

With the subs, I'm less distracted by poor voice acting, and even if, in reality, the original contained horrible voice acting, I wouldn't notice if I didn't know the language. Now, if I actually knew the original language and realized just how horrible it was, I'd go for the dub. So, no, I don't hate dubs. I just hate dubs that I know are horrible.

Besides, reading subs has been a rather fun experience. Although I have no trouble at all with reading them, they're still good speed-reading practice. ;)

My problem with dubs is usually not the acting... it's the choice of VA for the character. I like to experience almost everything "as the creator intended", so I avoid dubs for that reason. One example is where a male character is voiced by a female VA to make them sound young, and in the dub they end up sounding like a 35 year old man.

Most boy characters in dubs are, as far as I know, voiced by women.

Also, I'm not sure how much influence the creator has over the anime once it's in production. It may vary from author to author, but I believe it's usually up to the studio and director on both sides of the field (eastern and western).

GTO dubbed was ear-piercing for me. Onizuka wasn't as outrageous as he was in the Japanese dub, Kikuchi sounded like a stiff-lip retard and Fujiyoshi was an American beach surfer jock DUDe (OMG!!!)...

Another example was "His and Her Circumstances" aka "Kare Kano". You can't tell me Arima was great in the English dub (well... his Jap dub wasn't good either but it was preferable over the English one... I had to turn it up to Volume 26 to hear what he was saying).

Why is this even still a debate after so many years?

To preface the rest of this post, I typically watch subs, but I'm fine with watching a decent dub, or even a poor dub if the Japanese voice acting was really poor.

Some points:

1) "I want to watch the show as originally created": This is, in my mind, one of the weakest excuses I've ever heard for preferring subs to dubs. I'd like to think (add the necessary amount of sarcasm here) the creator/director/writer/studio really wasn't thinking about somebody adding a bunch of subtitles to their shows to watch them. In fact, if the creator and/or anime staff were more visually minded people, a dub would be considered better, since a dub pulls much less attention away from the action on the screen (and there have been fansub groups that were particularly bad about covering important frames with text).

2) Quality: Many fans claim that American voice acting is not as good as the original. This was certainly true 10 years ago (and we stuck to subtitles almost exclusively then). But it's not true now. There are cases when the dub is at least as good as the original audio track. Yes, there are cases when the English voice track is not as good as the Japanese, but there are also cases when the English voice track is better, which brings me to my next point:

3) Most fans can't speak/understand Japanese fluently. If you really wanted to watch a show "as the creator intended", you'd watch it without subtitles and with the original audio track. Once you make the concession to use subtitles, you have already compromised this principle. It is, perhaps, to a lesser extent than watching a dub but still a compromise. Further, because fans can't understand Japanese fluently, they can't tell if the acting is good or not. There's a range of quality (visually, orally, etc.) in anime. So, it surprises me that so many people would automatically prefer a sub of dubious quality (though many fansubs are done very well) to a well made dub produced by professionals (though many professional dubs are done poorly).

4) Anthropic principle. Although to a lesser extent than many years ago, Americans (and others) tend to get the better shows out of Japan. There is a filtering process that prevents Americans from being subjected to many of the ridiculous elements of Japanese culture. Sad but true. Try going to Asia. Any self-proclaimed expert (based on only watching the show or perhaps taking a year or two of language) would experience culture shock. So, a lot of the prejudice is based on fansubs of well acted/well produced shows compared to the full spectrum (poorly acted to well acted) of American dubbing. With the passing of time and improvements in the industry, this phenomenon is becoming less of an issue.

5) Pragmatic. Face it, most people prefer dubs. Most Japanese prefer foreign movies dubbed (Japanese voice actors also do a considerable amount of work dubbing live action movies). Most Asians prefer dubs. The countries that don't typically produce dubs (I believe one was mentioned here) are typically smaller countries that typically don't have the resources to release dubs for all these shows/movies. Dubs cost extra money. There's no financial incentive to produce them without (1) adequate resources and (2) adequate demand. There is no country in the world where demand is not adequate. There are, however, several countries where there are insufficient resources to meet this demand. In the US, there are a few shows that only also release a sub because of fanboy rancor (and they don't really even return the favor by purchasing the DVDs with as much energy as they complain about lack of subs).

6) Feeling of superiority. Like it or not, most human beings like to feel superior to other human beings. And most sub-only people fall into the category of people who want to feel superior by (1) watching anime and (2) watching anime subbed. If a dub exists but you don't watch it, why does it matter that it exists? Live and let live. It doesn't make me feel good to put somebody else down for watching a dub. They aren't illiterate or stupid (for the most part). Naming them as such is cruel and simply enforces self-important feelings.

I prefer subbing rather than dubbing, but I'm not the type who'll complain when a series gets released in American in English. That's stupid. It's just the way it goes, and it makes sense, because there are a lot of pseudo-anime fans out there who are too lazy or stupid to read subtitles or just can't stand it.

The reason why I prefer subtitles is because if the japense voice acting is lousy, it's not so easy to tell since it isn't my language. Also, the subtitles in a movie are almost always closer to the meaning of the original dialogue than the dub is, for the simple reason that they don't need to change the sentence to synch with the characters' lips.

See my point #6 above. Fans have been watching dubs (and avoiding subs) since at least the early 80s and possibly longer. I wouldn't call them pseudo-fans any more than I would call Asian Star Wars fans pseudo-Star Wars fans for watching their dubbed versions of the movies.

Thing is that if you watch Fullmetal Alchemist or Kenshin in dub form you won't feel as much emotion or attachment to the story as you would if you saw the original Japanese version. People who just want to see action or can't read subs and watch the anime at the same time are probably the ones who prefer dubs. But reading subs isn't hard once you get used to it.

I wouldn't mind dubs if they where good, most dub work is really awful. That plus the fact that the japanese voice actors are part of the production. The casting director for the specific anime chose those actors for a reason, and just cutting them out without thought for a lame dub is pretty disrespectful, I think, unless you do a good a good job with it. This really goes for all forms of media from anywhere.

There are only a few exceptions in my mind, one being Howl's Moving Castle. They did an A+ job with that dub. Also if it counts, the MGS series has a great "dub".

Why not? I watched Fullmetal Alchemist when it was on Adult Swim, and I managed to feel "emotion" and "attachment to the story" while doing so. I wouldn't have minded seeing subs as well, but the dub was perfectly competent at conveying the story. Have you even watched all of the dub, or are you just using it as a baseless example?

It doesn't bother me either way, most of the anime I watch is subbed, but I have no objection to watching English dubs. I finally got around to watching Howl's Moving Castle the other day, and automatically went for the English track (and it took me forever to work out that Christian Bale was in it.... ><'). If it's dubbed, it means I don't have to sit glued to my monitor, which is a big plus! The advantage of subbing is obviously a wider range of anime to watch. So, yeah, I'm cool either way!

The director's job, even in the dubbing process, is to choose voice actors that they believe fit the character itself. They're not picked at random, and as Great Antibob mentioned earlier, dubbing, as a result, has come a mighty long way from 10 or so years ago.

Yes I've seen about 10 episodes of the dub. You don't get the feeling that Edward has grown mentally from his voice like in the Japanese dub. Also the Japanese approach to dubbing is different than ours. In Japan the actors are told the character's thoughts, feelings, ideals and telling them who they are and how they feel in every situation. I'm not sure if we'll ever take dubbing "cartoons" that seriously. There is a dub I DO prefer over the original though, Cowboy Bebop.

First of all, that would be hard to gauge in just watching ten episodes. Second, I understood that pretty well, so I still don't see where you're are coming from with this. And unless you actually speak Japanese, I don't see how you could tell he has grown mentally from his voice. The part that actually reflects this is the script, and that is all your basically reading when you watch something with subtitles (unless you actually know the language, of course). I'm not saying you can't understand emotion or anything when it's in another language, but the concept of hearing someone "growing up mentally" is more about what someone says, not necessarily how they say it.

Have you ever been in a dubbing studio, Japanese or English? Do you know for a fact that every Japanese VA is told the character's thought's, feelings, ideals, etc., and that every American VA isn't told this info? Really, regardless of who's doing the voice acting (or any kind of acting, for that matter), they should be able to figure this out themselves from reading the script. Not only that, but the American VAs have an advantage as they can actually watch the original completed Japanese version to base their performance off of. It has nothing to do with taking the dubbing of "cartoons" seriously, it has to do with people taking their job seriously.

Sounds like you don't understand to me.

I can't say I've heard any actors that tried to resemble the original except that guy who played Vash in the dub. I've seen videos and stuff of Japanese people explaining their character and how it's done and I've also seen videos of English voice actors which rely on the voice director to be told how to act.

I'm really too lazy to read this whole thread and to be honest I don't really care.

Why do I prefer to subs to dubs? Simple. You get more of a variety with subs and more emotion. Allow me to elaborate.

The seiyuu (voice acting) industry in Japan is a shitload more extensive than the dubbing industry here. I bought a copy of Animage, a Japanese magazine last year, and one of the extras was a small book with lots of seiyuu, possibly all of them? The book was pretty big, probably the thickness of an average-sized manga. In America, you have maybe 30-50 people freelancing for whatever series they're hired for. I won't go so far as to say some of them are just doing it for the money, but there's not really money there in the first place and it's not my place to say this.

Secondly, Japanese is a lot more emotional a language than English. You can't pull any "You don't know Japanese so you don't know" bullshit on me because I do know Japanese. There are things that I find I can't properly communicate in English because its so dry. This also helps the seiyuu convey emotion moreso than dub VAs. Due to the way that Japanese is formed, there's a lot of different ways that a person can speak. In English, that's just not really possible. You also have to consider that a lot of the time these characters are created with Japan and Japanese in mind. Not America and English, so when you try to transfer over characters that are meant to have an Osakan accent and give them a Western accent, its just dumb.

That's just my two cents, I don't really feel like writing any more.

I'm much more of a dub fan than I am of subs. In fact, I basically hate listening to the other language.

Call it personal preference I guess. With voice actors being as good as they are now (with some exceptions -- lookin' at you, Naruto), I don't have a problem with listening to them. Hell, even if they're BAD I'd rather listen to English or Japanese.

Viz, Geneon, ADV, Medie Blasters, etc. all make high-quality anime, so I don't see any reason to bash them for licensing and localizing an anime. Fact is, if it doesn't get licensed, I won't get the chance to watch it. I don't like downloading whole episodes of anime because I think it's a waste of time -- besides I'd rather watch it on a TV screen rather than confined in Windows Media Player.

I WAY prefer dubbed anime over subbed anime. Even back in the days of Robotech, voice actors were good. Hell, Robotech has excellent voice acting! I don't blame the actors so much for bad dubbing as I do the production studio. It's their fault for choosing poor VAs, not the other way around.

Well then, please elaborate your point, because I have a pretty good grasp on what you actually posted.



First of all, how many anime have you seen both versions of (and completely, not just partially) to say that Vash is the only dubbed character that tried to resemble the original? And I'm pretty sure Japanese VAs rely on voice directors as well, while there are also English VAs who can "explain their character" and whatever else you're are talking about. Like I said, it's all about dedication to the job.

I could care less about which way you choose to watch anime, but it's when you start the mindless bashing of one form to justify the other that makes you look ignorant. Can't you just like your way of watching it without calling the other way stupid?

Don't put words in my mouth, I'm just saying it ruins a good percentage of the anime itself.

Also you'd have to be pretty simple minded to say that maturity depends on what you say, not how you say it. Of course debating on this point is a bit pointless when I can't really show what I'm saying here. Try watching it sometime.

You're missing out on a lot, but that's all up to you and what kind of watcher you are I suppose.

Bottom line for me, I like my anime the way I like my foreign films: in their own original language.

On the other hand, Japanese voice acting grates me for some reason. Perhaps it is the tendency to overact (as opposed to the American tendency to underact) that I find appearing a bit too extreme. Emotions and effect are fine and good, but making everyone emote puts the "melo" with the "drama".

I'm not fussed between either of the two, I generally go for whichever is considered the best by others and watch that. Like NGE, I got about 15 minutes into the English dub before Shinji's voice irritated the crap out of me and swapped over to subs.

Gundam Seed, on the other hand, had fantastic voice acting and is a case of I'm not fussed either way, but I'll listen to it in English because its there and the tone of voice is easier to understand.

Then, there is Full Metal Panic, which, after watching the dub, I can't watch with subs simply because the voice acting is superb and there is a lot of subtle humor in the voices I'd miss if I was listening to the subs.

My take anyway.

I have no preferences about Subs or Dubs, but I would love to express my opinion on this two interesting variations.

Firstly I don't really watch Dubs except when i am bored and I join my little sis watching some morning anime session. What I notice straight away with dubs is that there are points in time where they deviate from the original dialogue! They done it on purpose? or they just can't express what the original author trying to say? Not only that, but as some members stated before, some sequences in the anime are 'redrawned' or 'censored' which "originality" just isn't there anymore. That is the reason why fansubs sometimes continue licensed series... and I think thats what fans call "Butchering"?

Also, this raises up in nearly every single post, its about the VAs (Voice Actors). I do have respect for all English VAs, but complain about the organisation/selection skills of the organisers. I have seen and hear some dubbed series where characters personality seems to flipped into another character. In japan, anime/movie/CG VAs had always been regarded as one of the important element to a successful product. I guess in US that isn't always the case, 'profit before entertainment' is their main element (I think?). If dubbing companies want to earn large profits or big support, one idea is to start VA schools like Japan. Train up not only the VAs but also the english VA organisers.

I have friend who are currently in Japan doing voice acting as part of her certificate (degree), and one of their unit is about breaking their emotional barriers and fully portraying character's emotion when doing their recordings. And thats what I found quite often with English VAs, they tend to hold back their character's feelings.

Subs are a good way of learning other languages (IMO), no matter if it is fansubs or official subs. I feel that subs are closer to the story than dubs however the reason people hate subs is because they have to read and miss out whats on the animation. But that can practise and eventually it will come naturally!

But why would I care when I can read/listen to Jap and enjoy things at their original condition. :p Thats just my 2 cents...

When dubbed anime deviates from the original dialogue, it's often times a case of cultural differences. The actual meaning isn't changed, just the manner in which it's spoken.

Japanese: "We must hurry to the train station!"
English: "Let's get to the station, now!"

That sort of thing happens a lot, just because Americans we tend to vocalize our thoughts differently. With the relatively few home-grown Asians I've encountered, I noticed that they tend to enunciate their words and draw out longer sentences. Americans? If we can abbreviate it, fantastic. So it's just a culture thing in the way we express thoughts -- dubbed anime reaches out vocally to our culture of vocal expression.

The most important thing I like to have when I watch anime is CAN I KNOW WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON. If there's a ton of Japanese in jokes I won't understand any of them and will entirely miss the creator's purpose. Dubs on the other hand, can screw up the script or the story, as seen by 4Kids stuff.

I'll take Azumanga Daioh as the true essence of the double edged sword of this issue. It's got a lot of jokes that are distinctly Japanese, and the dub switches it around, luckily to make some equally funny jokes more understandable to the US audience. It's got people who sound better in the dub(Chiyo, Osaka) and those who sound better in Japanese (Kaorin, Kagura) and those who sound completely like their Japanese counterparts (Kimura, Sakaki). It's like the show is two completely different and enjoyable experiences depending on the language.

My point is simply that subs and dubs have their own merit. Subs are better for original content, dubs are better when the action needs to flow and/or I can better understand what the hell is going on.

And emotions: in Japanese, it's all about the emotion of your voice. In English: it is 90% word choice.

When done correctly, ie. Gungrave, Samurai Champloo, Cowboy Bebop, etc. dubs can be great. Whenever I hear about 4Kids getting a license to an anime I like, though, such as One Piece and Shaman King, (R.I.P.) I die just a little inside. Funimation has gotten better at dubbing, as indicated by Fullmetal Alchemist and Blue Gender. I think they've gotten a hold of Bleach too. Hope they do a good job with it.

Azumanga Daioh had a great dub, btw. And I find that the dvd versions (and even the higher quality fansubs) of shows like AD or Excel Saga have subtitles that go along with the english track, but only to translate what's written on a sign or to explain those Japanese in-jokes, which makes it a lot better.

That whole last paragraph wasn't really directed at you, it was just a general statement to all people who have that type of mentality.

That's pretty simple minded to bring up a point you can't prove in the first place. Being mature does have more to do with what you say, not how you say something. That's like saying someone who spews out bullshit but says it the 'mature' way is more mature than someone who actually has something meaningful and mature to say.

First of all, I don't mind any. I don't mind dubed or subed. But I really think they both got advantages and disadvantages.

1) Subs gets annoying to read on fucking small screen, not to mention subs can miss out lots of details since they can't fit freaking 1 sentence that needs to be 1 paragraph to fully explain.

2) Not to mention lots of fucktards out there thinks that asian movie has fucked up voice over, since fucking messed up English(language) can't handle fucking full translation. Or fucktards thinking that English = same lenth as other language to say a sentence.

3) The lips doesn't really fit in for Japanese nor English so don't even argue about it.

4) Sometimes dubbing is done better then the originals IMO.

5) Will you like your games in Japanese too?

6) Don't be like "OMFG thanks to fucking dubbing actors, they messed up the whole joke for us. Fuckers". Well guess what? Oriental jokes that is done physicaly are a LOT different to Americans. Mostly you won't get it.

Example: When Naruto gets his ass poked by Kakashi.


I am sure most of you didn't saw that going around where you live, so you won't get that joke unless you research the damn thing or the sub explains the whole joke. But in Asia (or atleast China,Japan,Korea) those things are very common. It is a common prank, while you might call us sick freaks. We also flip female's skirt too, that's a joke too. You might take that as a guy trying to look at your underweare or touch your private, but it is different in different place.

Well, for me. Their weakness is that they see the fansubbed version. And that they immediatly think that the U.S acting will go bad. When in fact that it doesn't. I know. Because I have both Tokyo Underground and Mars Daybreak (vol 1). And from seeing a few episodes. I can say that these animes have really good acting. Though, if it were for animes relating to 4Kids. I'm not even gonna bother :D.

This in particular relate to animes on VIZ, Geneon or Bandai Entertainment + ADV Films

I am fine with subbed anime because it's original, but I do tend to fall asleep if I watch subbed at night.

I hate Naruto in english...Believe it!

OK, people you are just going to have to deal with people liking to oringal voices they heard better than the 2ndary voices they heard(generaly) now if we go by X/1999 the Movie, can personaly cant stand the acting in either Japanese or English. It just sucked all over. i still can believe i watched in 2x thinking oh, the japanese might be better.... But conversly I have watched afew things in english after watchign them in japanese and liked it better(Hellsing comes to mind). So shows just dont work as well in japanese just because the fact that, and some shows like Naruto just dont work in english, WTF i mean, they just should have used the japanese name for the attackes and it would have been better(have watched too much dont know if it was just that one episode or not, but the voices didnt seem to match their personanlity either) But then their are some shows, FLCL, Evangelion, RahXephon, which i LOVE in both english and japanese, seeing all of them in english first. (ADV over all tends to get more stuff right and better acting in most cases from my expirence with them)
Another compairson, has any of you seen some American Cartoon in Japanese or in any other langued for that matter, comparatively, the American dubbing groups i would say do a HELL of alot better job than most others. not to say Loony toons isnt funny in japanese, but some of the puns and adult humor are not as easy to pull off. which is exactly why alot of japanese culture or word(kanji/hiragana/katakana) jokes are really hard in english just because we dont have the same view on things.
You cant just shun all dubbes because they are bad, because not all dubs are, same with subbes and that japanese, you cant just watch all english because you dont know what your missing with most of the japanese audio. you have to find your mix, try and watch a series in english for at least the first 1/2 of it, then change to japanese for the 2nd 1/2 and see if you still like that japanese better? the english will grow on you, i know its surpirising, but watching .hack//sign the voices grew on me, and i couldnt stand them at first, now i dont find them that bad.

i prefer dual audio.

If the english dub is bad i take the jap. one.

You cant say the original is always better.

Has anyone seen Full Metal Panic! ? In english its so much more fun to watch it, the dub is excellent.
FLCL is the same, i prefer it in english.

Gundam Wing? I dont know who the japanese voices are but the english Zechs-speaker is great, i cant imagine the japanese one to be better.
Compared to other i can choose even more since some animes are available in german but german dubs are the same as the english one, there are good ones and of course there are bad ones.

Hellsing for example, the Alucards german voice is great, same with Seto Kaiba from YuGiOh.

PS: never watch Chobits in either english or german -> suckx

I don't care what dub haters say. Most dubs(or..the dubs I've seen) are actually quite good. For example, most of Funimation's work have been great. For example, Dragonball, Yu Yu Hakusho, and Full Metal Alchemist have proven that dubs are generally good.

Most Japanese stress out too much, they overact, whereas most American voice actors don't put enough emotion. However, few voice actors have excellent voice talents, where they suit the anime character perfectly.

I believe this is a combination of culture and fluency. Unemotional performances haven't been a problem in the US in several years (at least on average).

Asians generally don't show too much emotion in public (there being some exceptions). Since they're generally amiable, their voice actors have to be taught to bring out their emotions more.

Americans generally don't have this problem. The biggest problem in a lot of movies (and infinitely many high school drama productions) is a tendency to overact. This is compounded by voice acting, where you don't necessarily get to use your physical presence to offset this tendency. So, American actors need to restrain themselves more.

So, Japanese actors are forced to overact while Americans are forced to be restrained.

The other part is simply fluency. If you are listening to a foreign language, it's easier to identify "mood" or emotion than actual words, while you might actually listen to words more in English. So, even if the emotional content is the same, you "hear" more emotion in Japanese because that's one of the few things you can actually understand.

Shit, now we are getting in to culture-ism >.> (is that even a word?)

the best answer to this thread is. Both Japanese and English dub are good. end of story.

You mean culture isn't involved? Get out of the closet already.

I don't even watch a lot of anime, so my opinion doesn't count as fanboyish.

But when i was watching Last Exile, it was the DVD so it had jap / eng audio. English was default, but i always switched to Japanese. But man, sometimes i would forget and the english audio would come on. Ridiculously bad. Dio in English? UGH!

Oddly I prefer English dubs if they're good. However, I think I always want Japanese subs to exist on the media simply because I know that the authentic thing is there in case I should want to view it.

Generally if it's some anime present to Americans via Adult Swim, I will have already heard the English dubs and be satisfied, and for the sake of continuity continue to watch the rest of the series in English. However, if I have not seen the particular anime before or have only seen it scarcely, I will desire to see it in its original Japanese.

As I've tried to get into more anime recently, I've found that I'm becoming partial to subs. The latest case of this would be when watching Gankutsuo, which arguably has terrible dubbing (except for when it comes to the Count, who comes off pretty decent. But not decent enough)

However, unlike some japanophile enthusiasts, I know a good dub when I hear one, and while it is a preference of mine to hear it in english, it doesn't make me any less objective about watching it in its native language. I'm not the fastest reader on the planet, though, which is another reason why I don't particularly like watching things with subtitles. I think the reading, even if it's dialog to move the story along, takes away from the experience. I mean, if I wanted to read, I'd pick up a book, right?

Anyway, some good dubs that I think are fan-fucking-tastic--and feel free to disagree with me here, but you're retarded if you do--are Trigun, Escaflowne, Magic Users Club, Gundam Wing... Hell, I'll even give Pokemon some credit, up until its most recent years, anyway.


MEANWHILE, those of you arguing that dubbing is for kids are retarded. Shut up and stop posting, please.

Do you subtitles can really capture the meaning of the dialogue in some anime?
 

I don't really. While I do think that subtitles do an effective job in translating meanings in most anime, I sometimes wish I understood Japanese just so I could fully grasp the connotations of the words spoken in anime. It's frustrating when you're sure there's something deeper behind their dialogue and the subtitles only display and reveal a direct translation. :aargh:

I just recently started watching the Japanese version of Sonic X with English Subtitles. It amazed me just how much more I liked the series. I admit, I wish it was spoken in my language sometimes but I'm still satisfied.

When I think of how much I like the Sonic X series because of not hearing the English Dub, it makes me really think English Dubbers really can ruin a good anime. 4Kids made this anime seem more like an American Cartoon when it had the potential to have the feel of a good anime here. They changed around good music, they got rid of the nice Anime Ending songs, and got some horrible VAs.

They made a good anime seem like a low budget kids cartoon in the process of "americanizing" it.

I didn't know I could enjoy a series much more because of it not being English Dubbed.

Well it's 4Kids. What were you expecting?

Why? It's true. :p More of the 'different cultures' thing, but if you go browse the DVDs in a store here, you will not find a single movie with Swedish dubbing that is not for kids. I don't see why that couldn't be a legitimate argument for disliking dubbing, in the same way as someone who is used to everything and their grandma being dubbed, advocating them.

I'll admit, it's irritating when a company like 4kids releases DVDs with just a dub track and no Japanese audio, because that means I don't get a choice. I usually watch the subbed version of most anime that I buy, but it's stupid to deny that dubs are pretty good now. Most of them get the point across just as well as the Japanese/Eng Sub version. That's something that's really changed since I got into anime. The first generation of dubs were pretty clunky.

Need I make a better example of a show than Naruto with

"BELIEVE IT!"

Its not so much that the voice acting is bad, but for an anime like Naruto, you're used to 150 episodes of Japanese voices. Yes, English will sound weird. What if after 10 years your mother sounded different? Weird? Yes.

The only issue I have is the random crap added or removed. I don't mean blood, I mean the stupid shit like "BELIEVE IT!"

"BELIEVE IT" is their response to the equally annoying "DATTEBAYO" garbage that Naruto spouts just as frequently in the original Japanese language.

I like hearing both, and seeing the different takes that Voice Actors have in thier approach of the role. While I don't understand Japanese (Other then the usual otaku-eque words that everyone knows [Kawaii = cute, desu = rozen maiden, etc.,]), the tone and meaning of the character can be heard nontheless in thier voice.

That's why I try to get Dual-Audio, so that I can hear different 'sides' to the personality of a person. Having two people voice a character in some ways allows for a deeper exploration of that character, versus just being spoken in one language.

That's my two cents.

However if I'm lazy I'll take English over Japanese =p

I just can't stand an American accent...

When it comes to what I watch, it's always going to be Japanese be it subbed or unsubbed. I know both languages, and clearly the Japanese dub is always going to be better because of the talent that is cast for those voices. A great number more Japanese seiyuu have better vocal control being able to control pitch and depth (no surprise) of their voices to vary it up. When watching Melody of Oblivion for instance, I could not tell that Bocca Serenade was Houko Kuwashima, and I was the biggest fucking Yurika Misumaru fan in the world back in the day. I should have been able to detect it from a mile away, but couldn't. That's how versatile they are.

All this compared to Lia Sargent forcibly casting herself in her 54902398th role with the same fucking voice she had when you first heard her perform. The ONLY English VA I know that can vary her voice well is Wendee Lee.

Dubbing ends up being a problem in any video, whether it be anime, movie, cartoon, whatever. The problem comes with trying to synchronize the dialogue with the lip movements; the dialogue is messed with in order to make the visuals more realistic, but the actual dialogue often ends up being sacrificed.
I've seen some good dubs, but I find more often than not that dubbing often ends up taking important lines of dialogue, or screwing with them to the point where they don't convey the same meaning or emotion.
Also, there is the problem with dumbing down the language for kids. It's pretty much one step further than replacing all swearwords in a movie when it's aired on TV, except the scene itself is interpreted in a different way. That's why I often prefer subtitles.
Then again, there have been a couple of animes that I have seen the dubbing first, and then I have a hard time getting used to the Japanese voices.

You should be aware that even the Japanese voices aren't lip synched. The "lip flaps" last the same lenght of time as the line does, but they don't make any effort to match the movements to the sound the way that American animators do.

This thread is getting old. People who like English dubs should watch dubs. People who like the Japanese audio with subs should watch that. People who think that it's anyone's business but your own what you watch should GTFO. Everybody wins.

Forgive me for posting on a older thread, but I really wanna say this.

I have to admit I was one of those people who think that the original Japan voices have to be better cause its original. After watching Bebop I realise its not always the case. In the end its all about the performance of the voice actors.

Though I will say that just cause we don't fully understand the language doesn't mean we can't feel the emotion. Thats like saying that foriegn songs can't convey emotion just cause we don't understand the lyrcis, its about the feeling the song or the line gives and not nessacary the words. I mean, how do you think body language works? Just certain ways people speak or the flow of the dialouge or the volume and intensity he or she speaks can convey alot of emotion. Combine them with translated subtitles and you have characters that you understand despite language barrier.

Of course there are bad dubs out there (4kids, please just die), but there are also bad Japanese voice acting as well, most of them are filtered out before getting localised or lisenced or course, and the bad ones don't get known anyway.

Though there are cases of well known anime with bad Japanese voice acting. (Sakura from Tsubasa Chronicle comes to mind, god she was so dull in the first episode when shes supposed to be arguing with Touya, no spirit or anger at all, just fake girly annoyance in her voice and you can barely even feel that, god. Just cause she's a princess instead of a Cardcaptor now doesn't mean she lost her spirit, she defintly has it in the manga version)

And there are examples of the English dub better and make more sense than the Japanes version. (Cowboy Bebop, c'mon, the whole style and direction was very American, along with ethinicity in differenct characters.)

To me these factors in the end result whether a dub or sub is better.

1. The directon, casting and performance of the actors. (MOST important)
2.Where the anime takes place, if Japan then Japanese makes more sense in context, if American, or at least American style or even Eurpoean, English fits the context. If fantasy, see point 1.

In the end, its all about who did a better job with the voices and context. Along with personal taste, but we should aknowlege at least that both dubs and subs can potentially be better than the other, cause nothing its 100% certain in the world.

Having a good dub is kind of important to me, since I usually do stuff while watching and don't always want to listen for the Japanese or give the show my undivided attention and read the subtitles constantly. I've found some really good dubs (Galaxy Angel, Slayers, Conan, You're Under Arrest, Outlaw Star, Cowboy Bebop, most anything involving the Ocean Group or the guys who do the majority of ADV titles), I've found some dubs that are more of a satirical bonus feature (thinking of Love Hina, Project Ako and Divergence Eve specifically...Anytime they try to add distracting accents to the main characters is an immediate death note for the dub track). I'm happy the quality of dubs has gone up during this period where anime has become more popular.

Now if all of the English voices from those ADV titles didn't all sound alike...

Actually GoldfishX, Kitsune with the southern accent in Love Hina was weird at first but became one of the best voices in the English dub as you got used to it. The rest of the characters were pretty meh. Characters with Kansai dialects are usually given a southern or northeast city accent. It's probably the most comparable way to do it in an English dub. Sure, you could try to mimic the Japanese accent if you wanted to with limited success but really those two american sets of accents tend to do the job granted the performance doesn't suck. Most of the minor characters including Kitsune in Love Hina had really good voices in the English dub. It's too bad the main characters couldn't carry the same oomph.