New PM Popups
 

Could the behavior of private message tracking be modified so that when new messages are read through the pop-up, they are marked as having been read? There's an obsessive email part of me that loves the notification, but doesn't want to read every message twice to get rid of the Unread X in the corner.

In your PM window, there are check boxes next to each individual PM. If you have messages you've read through a popup, check them off, then scroll down to the Selected Messages menu at the bottom and select "Mark as read" and click Go.

While that is a useful method for removing the Unread tally when messages have piled up, it doesn't cover the main issue, which is messages not being noted as read in the first place. Having not delved into the mechanics of vB, it still does seem like an addition of a bool assignment line item would solve this. It would also stop the same pop-ups occurring multiple times.

If you're curious and want to jump into it, here is a schematic of the vBulletin architecture:

http://quiteajolt.com/gff/blueballmachine2.gif

I may glance at things in that tiny pop-up but I don't give them the full read until I get to the PM box. In your new IT POPPED UP THEREFORE I READ IT system most of all my PMs would be read and perhaps in a rage of GET OUT OF MY FACE POP-UP I'M TRYING TO READ GOD DAMN IT I'd never read any of my PMs. And that's no good. =I

Even if "a bool assignment line item" made sense, it's not as simple as just writing an if statement.

Someone would need to:

- Add a user setting for this. No idea how complicated this is in vBulliten or how often this is done, so it could be anywhere from incredibly easy to a bunch of work (to figure out how this is done, do that, and then figure out what inevitably went wrong along the way)
- Find where in vBulliten the decision is made to see if there are new unread messages when generating a page.
- Read and understand that code.
- Determine if, at that particular point in the code, the necessary variables for accessing the user preferences system have already been set up, and if not, set them up.
- Access the user preference system and check the setting.
- Debug a bunch.

I know nothing about vBulletin either, but I am professional software engineer. When you're working on any large codebase, the hard part is not knowing what line of code to write, but knowing where to put it. And figuring that out can take ages.

In VB a simple function to add text to a page may very well take kbs of code across several includes files. And then you have to deal with template caching fuckery which jelsoft has never been able to figure out.

Instead of Araes' feature request, I'm requesting that his PM privs be removed. That way he'll never have to worry about this issue coming up!

see, good programmers solve problems, but great programmers avoid them in the first place.

I got a better solution than ramoth's monstrosity. Add a button to the pop up window that says "Mark as Read & Close". Then you can use the X if you just want to close the window but keep it unread, or click the "Mark as Read & Close" button if you want it to do such.

I usually answer "Cancel" to the popup, and then "Ok" to the next prompt. Usually does the job.

But only for the latest PM.

I realize this. I work with a massive installed base of Fortran created by people who didn't comment or format in my daily work. Fortran is the devil. However, point noted.
This seems like a reasonable alternative to my original suggestion of a default or selectable behavior, as it would allow compromise for AcerBandit's valid concerns.

Considering the amount of pushback, I don't expect this to ever happen, but it's an annoyance I figured I'd investigate getting changed. Thanks for the explanation of the vB background cookie and I'll try out the method you suggested Zerg.

Araes, I messed up the sequence. You should first say Ok, then click Cancel.

That's a bad solution, since it forces a user to think 'what if I don't want to "mark as read"?'

Considering that the pop-up promt already has the word 'close', 'open the message in a new window', 'go to my PM box', and 'close this popup' that's a lot of options for a user to consider, and all for a feature that only one person has asked for and a few people have stated would be confusing and unworkable for their jobs as moderators.

I'm just offering a solution, not a UI redesign concept. Like you said, there are already a lot of options. Perhaps they should be slimmed down. Not that any of this change is really needed anyway, I agree.

People still use that popup thing? If I want to know if I have any unread PMs, I take a quick look at the number in the top right hand corner of every screen. There's even a handy link right next to it that takes you to your inbox from whence you can choose whether or not you wish to read said new message.

The problem is something with the user's experience. Your solution has nothing to do with the user's experience? I hope, for your employer's sake, that you only do backend work.

Playing the dozens seems a lot more fun when it's about software engineering qualifications instead of overweight mothers.

Good grief. Do you try to disagree with everything I say on purpose? I was agreeing with you in that second post. Settle down. :plant:

I'm sorry that you think I have a vendetta against you. I don't. I'm saying that programmers who only think about what is programmatically possible* are thinking about less than half of the problem, and that giving solutions in such a situation is no more than mental masturbation.

That's not an opinion I keep special for you, Leno. Get over yourself.

* in their idealized world, without looking at the code base to assess what is possible, Mr. Bool-Line-Item-Assignment Araes I'm looking right at you

I admit I've never really paid attention to the popup control as it stands. I know what you mean, and you're right. That's why, for example, the Song of the Week navigation area looks so shitty. (I would like to fix it, but I'm too lazy. Also, it was one of the first sites I made in PHP.)

If my solution were to be implemented, we would want to remove some other other links, or reposition them to streamline the whole control, etc. I can't access the control ATM to view it, so I'm not going to comment further.

Anyway, the whole thing is moot if nobody decides to act on the thread poster's request.

I'm curious about what degrees/certs you two have, because I think I'm missing half the context.

I'm a web programmer but I have a strong interest in the user experience. It makes life infinitely easier if you make sites that people can understand at a glance, especially with something intentionally obtrusive like the PM notification popup.

What are you having difficulty with? I figured that "five options are more confusing than four" is pretty self-explanatory.

I'm a web developer for Microsoft platforms. I've worked solo on entire applications multiple times, and I'm in charge of one right now, so I do everything: graphic design, UI design, analysis, programming, data interfacing, DB administration, etc.

I also work with PHP and other non-Microsoft technologies on my own time.

My degree/certs are lacking, but I still manage to get by on my skill.

I'm a Computer Engineer and I scored 1590 on the old SAT

I've got a degree in software engineering and I've worked on several funded and hobby projects before and during pursuit of my master's, including passable modifications to vBulletin source code, and I've taught software engineering, data structures, and discrete mathematics at my university... Yet I'm not going to attempt to prove some idea for implementing a bit of user functionality superior to another on the internet. I'm just saying.

Designers, engineers, coders, and users see things differently. It doesn't mean any one of them is wrong or misguided. It means they all have distinct views of the process, all of which are vital to completing a piece of software. This is pretty much the core tenet of good software engineering practice: elicitation, understanding, compromise.

It's good that you know your limits and that you wouldn't tell someone to do something you yourself don't understand, but I feel I'm at the point in my career where I can safely say that a feature only one person requested is not a feature worth implementing.

Additional Spam:
t Araes: If you click on 'open this message in a new window', you'll be brought to the PM message itself. It is automatically flagged as 'read', since it's the same page you get if you were to click on the PM from the PM inbox. So really, this thread was for nothing but obnoxious programmer dick measuring.

hth,
Your Friend in Christ,
A. Lurker, Esq.

Which was basically the point I drippingly subtexted.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1512/20070314.gif

Yes, yes, but what's your SAT score

1595 was my lowest score.

That's right. I took the SAT multiple times. Just for fun.

I'm sorry, I've forgotten my SAT score, what with having taken the GRE.

Well I have a huge dick, and you can't learn that from a book, faggot.

No, but if you send me pictures I can certainly touch myself.

Like you didn't compare your GRE score/percentiles to your SAT ones.

I don't even remember taking the SAT. I seem to recall my GRE percentiles being worse, but that's about it.

Well since you're so eager to tell us the parts of your life story that are flattering, why are you going for a master's?

So I qualify to teach sophomore/junior level CS and math classes (EDIT: as faculty; I do that now, but I get paid beans). I should have my doctorate by the time I'm nigh 29, if all goes according to plan and the research works out.

Also to make up for low senses of accomplishment and self worth!

You're really bad at this, aren't you?

Life, I mean.

I didn't even remember what my SAT scores were. I had to fish them out.
580 verbal; 800 math

Proves that I'm not the best with English I guess.

Nah, I'm actually fairly good at it now. I'm just not stuck up enough to think I'm hot shit anymore, and if somebody asks me a question I give them an honest answer.

Your verbal/quantitative ratio isn't uncommon for CS folks.

I have ten GCSE's.