An intolerant people named Québec
 

Despite my vivid hatred towards Pierre Trudeau (no one has contributed more to the division of this country), I have to conceed one thing to him: nationalism leads to intolerance.

And Québec is an intolerant society (despites "ours" electing a cokehead who used public funds to satisfy his vice). I had the most vivid proof last week. The two following pictures show what left-wing hippies do to freedom of speech. The one with 2 guys in it show posters of Mario Dumont, head of a centre-right provincial party, who will give a conference at Université Laval on Wednesday. The other one is the legend under the posters: «à saccager» (to be destroyed). When a member of our group asked why this was there, one of the hippies (the long haired one on the picture) aswered quote: "We are just taking out your posters so we can put ours". Stupid fuck...:boxing:

This intolerance goes along other stupid things. In 2004, the major Quebec City radio station was closed down because of tis content (but it managed to survive). Among those who were happy about it: sovereignists, labour unionists, hippies... All of whom CHOI (the radio station) were denouncing for their behaviours. A PQ MNA from Quebec City clearly said it: had CHOI been for separation, we would have supported it!

Quebec, a tolerant society? I think not!

Look, I might be a bit rude here, but most people around here probably don't care much about stuff concerning Quebec. One of the thing I noticed annoys people from other provinces and countries most is that a large proportion of people from Quebec seem to believe that their problems deserve everyone's attention. And I'm not necessarily talking about those that want to become an independent country. Point is, most people don't care and will just get even more annoyed with us no matter what you're saying, and to some extent, I can kind of understand.

That aside, you're not exactly providing much for discussion here. I'm not even sure what your point is. Quebec is intolerant, fine, if you say so. Some moron ripped off some posters and wrote shit on a blackboard? You'll find retards like that anywhere you go, that's not exactly something you'll only see in Quebec... As for the radio station thing, assuming what you've said is actually true, it's not so much that Quebec is intolerant, it's more of something called politics. People will do whatever they can to silence those that disagree with them, whoever they are, if they have the power to do so.

And that's one of the problems: those same intolerant people want to separate from canada!

As for people caring: this intolerance can be felt by any non french speaking person outside Québec ( I have clearly seen it). Maybe other canadians/quebecers could talk about it to prove/disprove me

This topic seems too specialized to one certain region for most of us to really care too much about.

You might want to have that 'vivid hatred' looked at, sounds like it can lead to problems.

Your complaints are that political groups are disrespectful towards each other's propaganda/posters? Well no shit. Happens all the time, and happens from each side of the political spectrum. Nothing to do with Quebec. Or is it just that this example is of the 'wrong' side doing it? Or perhaps it's just that it's hippies? You are a little unclear.

CHOI was shut down because of it's political leanings? That's bullshit. Their license was not renewed due to violations of the 'Radio Regulations 1986', and CHOI-FM's Code of Ethics. It was *not* the content or the political nature/side, it was the way in which things were presented. Inapropriate language (even by CHOI-FM's stated ethics), and personal attacks were what caused this. http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/NEWS/RELEA...04/r040713.htm

I was recently in Quebec (Lachine, right beside Laval), and yes, things are different there. However, I don't see how this is a particularly intolerant province. All the provinces seem pretty insular actually, it's just that Quebec is more vocal, and there is the more prominent language difference which accentuates things.

So really, what's the problem?

Speaking as a delegate from Manitoba, I can safely say we hate people from Quebec and people from Alberta equally. It has nothing to do with culture, it's just you guys won't stop bitching.

Actually Fjordor, quite a few of the threads in the Political palace ‘are’ specialized to one certain region, Afghanistan, Iraq, America, Canada, Mexico… I also had a lot of posts on my thread on the seal hunt, which takes place in a certain region, but enough of that….

I find that Québec is a lot like other places in the country, some people are intolerant and some are not, however I have had a few ‘interesting’ encounters there. I can speak enough French to get me around, but people can hear my accent, and know that I am a English speaker and give me dirty looks, actually… come to think of it, they where from teenagers, adults smile when they heard me. The leader of the Bloc party Gilles Duceppe does not help, he behaves that Québec is the only province that matters in the country, and does not want to work together to make things right. He does not get it that Canadians really care about the province.

Québec voted not once... but TWICE to stay with Canada, and Gilles wants to have another referendum on a issue that has already been resolved MULTIPLE times! I think Gilles Duceppe needs to start getting the idea that he is a Canadian.

The thing I dont get is that this guy is talking about people being intolerant when he's being the most intolerant person around

Quoted for truth.

For the non Quebecers: Phoque le PQ translates into Fuck the Parti Quebecois (the pro-separation provincial party). GJ being a hypocrite Phoque le PQ. :edgarrock:

I'm a strong supporter to keep our country whole - but if they want to have another refferendum, and decide that they want to be own thier own, then they can leave - and leave all of the federal support with it.

Canada is a great place to live, and be a part of - I don't think that the seperatists realize how good they've got it.

I know all too much about it. I was laughing at anglos' accent during katimavik. When they made me realise it, i stopped immediatly. When we were in st-jean, they were looked down upon and treated like shit (literally). I think I now understand why so few English speakers who know French don't speak the language despite their knowing it. You guys don't make fun of our mistakes:ashamed:

As for Gilles Duceppe: the only thing he "probably" like about Canada is that it pays his wage :p

Since Quebecers were "stupid" enough to fall for Canada's love in, then they need to vote again :lolsign:

If you'd spend one week (or even one day) in the Social Sciences building at Université LAval, then you'd probably agree with my point ;)

But your stating it proves that i'm not considering myself more catholic than the pope

The thing you have to understand about Québec is that the people here are basically rednecks. The French, anyway.

Montréal is relatively civilized.

In Australia, Alan Cadman made a bid for (centre right) Liberal party leadership on an ignorance of tolerance platform, refusing to even acknowledge it's existence. This just blew away John Howard's position on the issue, he's always been against tolerance.

Unfortunately the backbench revolt subsided and Cadman renounced his leadership bid. Australia could've been a very different place.

I think it's kind of funny that your Liberal party leans to the right.

Yeah they stand for the liberalisation of trade, not people. The Labor party, complete with American spelling is the mainstream left party. Also the Democrats are a centrist party here and the idea of Republicanism is dominated by the left.

All in all pretty fascinating.

I've been alive for 25 years long enough to know what bigotry looks like, thanks

Asshole

As bad as you make Quebec out to be, they're nothing compared to the Neatherlands, who are now issuing video tapes to all prospective immigrants on all the reasons NOT to move to their country.

And the best thing about this: the tape is full of porn. No kidding.

HOOK YO NIGGA UP SON

Dear Dutch Embassy,

I would like to come to your country. Is there any information I should be aware of?

Love your Windmills,
Bradylama

Fuck and they say we are messed up :/

You'd think they would realize that giving people porn will only attract the wrong type of people to their country.

But it's the Right Kind. Not Muslims.

Turpin ban++?

Netherlands have so many morrocans immigrants, but it seems that they do not want anymore ...

And now from an anglo

First off, referendums are held for a mandate to negotiate seperation, not seperate entirely.

Secondly, the Clatiry Act will prevent Quebec from seperating anytime soon.

Thirdly, the Government of Canada has an obligation to keep watch on Quebec to protect minorities. Wuebec has an awful record of mistreating Anglos and Allos, misspending money that could have been useful on the "language police", and so on.

Anglos have been in Quebec for three centuries, and we're not leaving. One day, the anglophones of Quebec will once again have their total freedom of expression!

We just won't be getting accepted in any Quebec universities other than Concordia and McGill any time soon. :tpg:

Well, at least it's not like McGill and Concordia are bad universities.

Whaaa?

Des 'rednecks'? Bâtard, c'est intolérant et imbécile rare ton opinion? T'as une idée c'est quoi un 'Redneck'?

C'est pas parce que tu croises deux mongoles qui parlent français que tu dois catégoriser le peuple entier.

TRANSLATION: Rednecks? Damn, that is one intolerant and idiotic opinion. Do you have any idea what a Redneck is? It's not because you stumbled upon two assholes who spoke French that you must categorize everyone of us!

I'm sorry, but this is an English-language board, so please keep all forum discussion in English.

Feel free to exchange PMs in French if you like, though.

Sure, I'll remember that next time, but why delete it?

Sorry, habit. I guess it can live, though.

If you'd be so kind as to edit it into English, please?

He's calling me a bastard and telling me my opinion is intolerant, stupid and rare. He says I don't know what a redneck is; that I've met a few retards who happen to be francophones so I'm lumping them all together.

He's mostly wrong, but I don't blame him. French Quebec is a very isolated culture.

I didn't call you a bastard or stupid. You read and see what you want.

@STYPHON: Sure, I was gonna edit when I saw you're post.

EDIT: A long time ago, indians lived here. Frenchies from Europes came and killed the indians and took over the land. Then time passed. Then some people rebelled and said "Fuck You" to the Frenchies and created their culture. Then the English came here and kicked the French Quebecors' asses and they said "Speak English or die!" and some said "Fuck You" and got killed. Then time passed. Then a little law passed and asked English bussinesses to advertise in French then in English, then everyone freaked out. Idiots from Quebec's French community screamed "You speak English I hate you!" and then Idiots from Quebec's English Community replied "Oh yeah? Well we hate you too!!".

So you see, we've got both bloods on our hands, we've got idiots on both sides and we're living on a land that isn't ours.

So, sure, keep saying French people from Quebec are Rednecks. But I won't say Canada is ignorant and intolerant, there's some really nice people there. I'll say YOU'RE ignorant and intollerant.

We didn't say "speak English or die" and we didn't kill you. I'd like to know what the hell you think you're talking about.

Now that's trivializing it. The Official Language Act (that little law):

• made French the only official language of Quebec
• made it necessary for companies to adopt the French language to communicate with the government
• forced all immigrant children to be educated in french-language schools (even if they come from an English speaking country!)
• forced all business signs to be 2/3 or more French (meaning English and any other language combined must collectively be 1/3 or less!)
• made French the dominant language in court proceedings, meaning that in the case of any ambiguity in the law, the French language translation of the law is to take precedence over the English text.

Oh please. :rolleyes:

Once again...

'Bâtard' is used commonly as a way of saying one is surprised, like 'damn!' or 'shit!'. Learn a culture before dissing it.

Also, after the insurrection of 1837, 800 patriots were arrested and locked in a prison of Montreal for resisting the English governement. Most of them were killed by hanging. Stay in school.

As for that law, I'm not even gonna go there since you're simple-minded and think that everyone should speak English because you're English.

Can't you see we have a whole different culture here in Quebec? If everyone speaks English, then we lose most of that beautiful language we have up here!

They do have an obligation to protect minority rights, but since the Quiet Revolution, the G of C never intervened because Quebec is awash with voters and civil servants.

Political seperation may be the only way to resolve this issue. Judging from the example of the Czech Republic, seperation may actually bring the two sides closer together through economic cooperation/border agreements, etc.

Are you insane?
Firstly, Canadien culture came about out of neccesity and not as a rebllion to France.
Secondly,The British gave all sorts of powers to the French-Canadian community through the Quebec Act and allowed French civil law to go on existing. For a conquest, those are some pretty damn generous terms. Throughout it's history as a colony and Canadian province, Quebec was allowed to keep its own French institutions by allowing the Catholic church to continue community operations in French.
Thirdly, Bill 101 didn't "ask" English businesses to advertise in French, it forces English people into French schools, French advertising and business in French. It even had an appeal at the UN! It was an active attempt to destroy Anlgo culture and forced us (or tried to) to speak a lanuage that's not our own. Even the British colonial office never passed such a repressive law.

I have no qualm with people speaking French. It seems that some nationalists ahve a problem with anyone speaking, educating or going about their business with English in Quebec!

Anglos have been in Quebec for centuries, we are part of the province, too. Don't tell us to go home...we already are at home!

well... considering that we ahve more sacred cows than India, and that too many I have spoken/read about are awfully closed-minded:juggler: (hence my name)

Bill 22 clarified this. Unfortunately, there have been abuses, apparently...

As for the advertisement: if protecting a language means only advertising into it, it's not worth much...

And it shouldn't really have gone any other way. We're talking about an armed uprising here. It's serious shit.

No, you're not gonna go there because you really can't defend it. I think we should be allowed to speak English because we are English. This is an English country.

Just because everybody is allowed to speak English does not at all mean that all of Quebec will speak English. It's clear enough from your hardline (dare I say fascist) attitude on language that the French language is not in any danger.

That I agree with you Loyalist, his reaction was very defensive and his argument was false at that: it probably was an unargumented knee-jerk defensive reaction. People can get awfully defensive about thier convictions, you know that.

True, the post-Conquest political stance was awfully generous to the French-speaking populace, but do you know why? It was by sheer number force, simple as that. The French-speaking inhabitants, even after the post-Conquest influx of immigration, outnumbered the English-speaking ones by a significant margin. Forcing the immense majority of a population to change their way of life could have easily led to an uprising, especially if they didn't support the Catholic Church (which in turn supported them) like they did, since faith was very important to the French inhabitants. It was a generous deal, but one rather forced by the circumsyances, it wasn't entirely out of the good will of her Majesty. :rolleyes:

The current Bill 101 does not forces English people into French schools, but it does force immigrants into French schools until the end of high school though. It did ban advertising in English for its first few years (which I think was wrong), but now enforces that French is predominant in advertising, to avoid situations similar to the 50s Montreal, where even buisness ran by French people only advertised in English.

Bill 101 is not an attempt at destroying a culture, it's an attempt at protecting what is left of another. Similar laws have been used in other countries:

• Lituania adopted a similar law to protect its own language from russian and english;
• Israel adopted in 1998 a law that obliged its radio stations to broadcast at least half their songs in Hebrew;
• heck, even California adopted in 1986 a Bill that made English the only official language of the State, it's even stated in the preamble that there is an obligation to "preserve, protect and reinforce the English language", it also made English the obligatory learning language to immigrants.

Yup, just like some people seem to abhor Quebec nationalists as a whole! But like you said, it's some people, and not all nationalists by a long shot. And yes, you're as much at home as anyone that lives in Quebec, that's not the issue here.

And yes, I'm a nationalist. :)

EDITED for typos.

I'll bet my life savings that 90% of your opinion came from your parents which was given to them by their parents and so on.
When I was young, I used to get beat up by the English kids down the block where I lived just because I spoke French. Where did they get that hatred? Probably their parents who got it from theirs. You see, a big chain of intolerance.

Also, the thing with French here is that LAW 101 protects it. Imagine this okay? English is the most talked language in the world right next with Chinese, if the law didn't exist, the majority of shops, bussinesses and others would advertise in English only since the majority of the world and the rest of Canada speaks it, so why bother with the French? Then a dozen years later, only a handful of people will be speaking it and we'll just get eaten by the rest of it.

I'm getting a bit tired of all that since you're pretty hard-headed and you don't want to see the other side of the coin. Fine. Hate French. I don't hate English but you seem to think that Quebecers and Separatists will go 'Witch-Hunting' English people when we'll get our country. Poor brain-washed kid.

I always heard this rumour that Canada was bi-lingual. Have I been mislead all these years?

Yeah, he lives in his own country.

Turbot's right when he says that the generous conditions in the Quebec Act were implemented on the basis of necessity, and not because the British were benign and wanted to give Quebec a fair deal. Canadian history has shown that Quebec gets what it wants because it reacts viciously against causes that are important to the province, with some recent examples being Equalization, Adscam, provincial rights and the health accords. It also helps that the province has an abundance of voters that, in many areas, routinely shift political allegiance at the drop of a dime.

Protecting the French language is a pretty moot goal, though. If the winds of change blow against the necessity of the French language, then just let it run its course if its not palpably harmful. If French is replaced by English, than the Quebecoise will be able to participate in the global economy that much more easily, and their relationship with the ROC will be that much better. Bottom line: Quebeckers must decide whether protecting the French language is really worth the opportunity cost of a considerably higher standard of living. And really, is it really that important to have an identity so nominally distinct from the ROC (I say nominally because the differences are actually quite negligible, but are trumped up whenever some Quebec politician wants to play the nationalist card to get himself elected)?

My parents have nothing against francophones. And my mother is from Nova Scotia by the way.

How old were they?

Because more than 90% of Quebec is francophone.

Not bloody likely. You'll keep your language just fine, out of your own convictions. You don't need the asinine law.

I'm hard-headed? That's rich! This coming from the guy who calls Bill 101 a "little law" "ask[ing] businesses to advertise in French then in English" and who doesn't discern between "patriots" and armed rebels. And for your information, Les Patriotes weren't only French. There were many English among them.

I never said such a thing.

Speak for yourself.

I wouldn't say viciously, but strongly, but I won't go into a semantics debate with you lordjames... And yeah, people here have a tendancy of being political girouettes based on what better suits them, or sometimes even on their feelings. I blame our latin temperament, heh.

Bill 101's protection is not about protecting a necessary language, it's about protecting a language that is an integral part of Quebec's culture. And that's where we disagree: to me, Quebec's difference is not negligible. And that's how many (and dare I say all) nationalists feel, it's not only a politician's trump card... Quebec and the RoC share a lot of common ideals but differ on some points, akin to Canada as a whole and the US, but on a different scale.

Also, speaking French doesn't forbid us from speaking English (obviously!) and being a part of the global economy (or the continental economy for that matter): as far as I heard, the Chinese and French are pretty good in that, and their population is far from being as bilingual as Quebec's population (about 40% of Quebecers speak both English and French)!

Anyways, getting mighty late, sorry if I'm not very clear.

So you FORCE immigrants into your culture? To be honest, if your culture can't stay alive by positive means (ie, encouraging Quebecosi art, culture and discussion) and you're resorting to outright opression to keep it alive (forcing American, British and other English-speaking immigrants into a school where they are bound to struggle as they learn boht the material and a new lanuage), perhaps it's time for the nationalists to have a long, hard talk with themsleves.

Goodwill or not, it still happend, and that's what important. I never claimed it was done out of goodwill, I merely claimed that it did, in fact, occur.

Given that it was the Feds who protected us when nationalists came to power, I don't see our situation improving in the...unlikely event of a Republic of Quebec. Nationalists are the kind of people who would kisnap one of their own (an elected official), kill him and mock him in a subsequent communique. Then, two decades later, rig a referendum AND lose. Good luck at meeting Clarity Act standards with that kind of attitude.

As much as I don't like Sketch, I'm going to have to somewhat agree with him. While I don't particularly like Bill 101 because it FORCES people to use a language that they may otherwise not want to use, the law does make sense. Also, loyalist, get off your soapbox and take your biggotry elsewhere. You obviously HATE francophones, so just move out of the province already.

you don't SAY. I never thought I would approve Stéphane Dion:lolsign:

Bill 22 (the previous language bill) made French the official language of the porvince (while English remained a "national language") and blocked English schools to those who didn't have "sufficient knowledge" of the language (it logically exlcuded born English speakers). Apparently, people abused it...
Also, in the 70s (I read it in a Kenneth Mcdonald book, if i'm not mistaken), Ontario clearly said that it was, first and foremost, an English speaking province. Nobody seemed to have protested.
Finally, both Canadian unity commission (Laurendeau-Dunton and Pépin-Robarts) recommended that French be portected in Quebec while (official language) minorities have guaranteed rights. Thanks to our national asshole (Trudeau), these recommendations have been, er, deformed (?)

And besides, there are Bill 101 ewverywhere (i read it in a newspaper long ago; maybe people from these places can concur)
- In italian swiss cantons, there are restrictions on German
- Mexican companies are stongly encouraged to adopt spanish names
- I believe Germany has restrictions about English, too

However, I must admit that the original bill 101 was far too restrictive and epople are getting overly paranoid about the state of the language. Hell, still over 80% of the people in the province speak the language at home.
Should we separate (I hope not), I fear that bigotry will become even more widespread

Did you even read what I said loyalist?

First, immigrants from English-speaking countries can get into English school if they wish, that part of Bill 101 applies to people who would have to learn a new language to function in our society anyways. It is not, in any case, opression.

Second, California is doing the same thing (maybe actually worse, when you think about it, since I'm not aware of the existence of a parallel educational system, but don't quote me on that) with its Spanish-speaking population since 1986! Are you going to call English-speaking Californians opressive bigots as well?

While you are at it, you might as well blame Canada as a whole for its cultural protection laws (i.e. Canadian content quotas on TV), since the country is obviously too weak to protect its culture by positive means... :rolleyes: Prejudices, knee-jerk reactions and gross exagerations are the worse possible things to do in a political argument.


We agree on that, I was just making it clear it wasn't only out of her Majesty's goodwill. :p

The October '70 Crisis is not representative of all of Quebec nationalists, especially now. The FLQ always was a fringe idealistic group: some people may have agreed with their left-wing values and their stance on independance, but that all shattered the first time they killed someone. Do you sincerely think nationalist Quebecers approved the kidnapping of James Cross and the assasination of Pierre Laporte...?

Also, please tell me how the '95 referendum was rigged by the PQ (as I assume you are saying)? I'm curious on what you support this. I heard there was fraud on both sides, but with greater occurence from the No camp, along with grey-zone tactics from federal organisms (I can go search for my sources if you wish me to).

While you are at it, can you tell me how and why did the federal government protect you from the nationalists? As far as I know, the English-speaking Quebecers' situation is far from bad compared to other official language minorities... French-speaking inhabitants of Saskatchewan were forbidden to have French schools until 1995!

And I'm not even going to comment the Clarity Act introduced by Mr. Dion... that's another topic altogether....

When did I say ANYTHING anti-Francophone? I happen to live and work with Francohphones. I just don't agree with nationalists and despise nationalists who seek to impose their will. An accusation of hatred is a very grave one indeed, and, if I were you, i'd lern to hold my tongue when it's appropriate.

I happen to love Quebec, and I do miss her so, as I am attending university in Ontario. However, why should my family and others like me leave he home they love , ignoring the centuries-old multicultural heritage there?

My miswording, and I apologize. I know that the FLQ was definately on the fringe, and that the killing of Pierre Laporte ultmately broguht their downfall due to a washing out of nationalist support.

The Supreme court stepping in and forcing Quebec to modify Bill 101.

Your points are fair, but Bill 101 does unnecessarily restrict access to the English language for French kids. Kids with French as their mother tongue cannot go to an English school until CEGEP (college studies) while English kids can attend either. We simply have more choice and opportunities than the Frenchies do when it comes to language. Furthermore, our French courses are logically better serviced than English courses at French high schools, considering the political climate. We're further advantaged by the fact that English is the de facto language in business, while French can no longer be considered the language of diplomacy, or even a remotely important one for that matter.

Of course, French kids could always study English after high school, but so many don't actually get out of high school, or don't pursue post-secondary studies, or simply don't care for English and don't think its necessary considering where they live, that they never pursue it. Moreover, we English get the bonus of learning two languages, while the French don't have that same luxury. This gives us an intellectual edge over the French, making us the ultimate benefactors, to some extent. And besides, most of us will leave the province at some point, afterwe've exploited a generous (by no means cheap) post-secondary education arrangement.

When you really think about it, immigrants coming from another country where they don’t speak English nor French, thus they will have to learn a new language anyway, they would be BETTER OFF learning English than French.

1. If you want to do any kind of business in Quebec, you won’t go far if you don’t speak English. (Most of the business leaders and managers in Montreal are English speakers)
2. English is much easier to learn than French.
3. Later, if they want to move elsewhere in the world (or there kids), it will be easier.
4. International communications are done in English.

All French people in Quebec should learn English for their personal benefit. Really, IMHO, one of the nicest things about Montreal is that when you meet people or ordering at a restaurant or whatever, at first you don’t know in which language to speak, it’s a true bilingual city (on top of the fact that nearly every language in the world is spoken somewhere in Montreal, but that’s another story).

Don’t get me wrong, French is a beautiful language and so is the culture that comes with it, but I don’t think the solution is to force it on people. America is the land of the free, and we are part of America, so I think that people should have the choice, plain and simple. Both French and English should be available in school starting at 1st grade, and each student (or their parents) could choose witch one they take, and we all know that those who will learn both languages will have an edge over the ones that don’t...

For the record: I was born in Quebec, I live in Quebec, and my mother tongue is French, my parents don’t speak English. And learning English has been one of the most enriching knowledge I’ve learned so far.

true, learning English is imperative to francophones. However, if immigrants only learn English, they are putting themselves appart from the rest of the province. Yes, the language of the majoirty on the continent is English; nevertheless, they ought to learn french too if they want to live in quebec.

I think it's just a matter of respect; when I go elsewhere in canada, i speak English; when ROC comes here, they should speak french

a quarter of canadians cant even speak english, let alone french ! c'est pas simple comme ca ; on ne peut pas juste dit qu'un immigrante peut etudier un langue et voila ! it takes forever to learn a language.. par exemple je connait certains gens qui ont habité ici pour la plupart de ses vies (ils sont immigrantes) et ne peuvent pas communiquer la langue comme une langue maternale. easier said than done. don't be a silly quebecer !

But still, hearing people talk in our mother tongue when it's not theirs is always a charming experience... but trough an online forum the accent is missing, which is a shame ;)

A quarter of Canadians? Do you count Quebecers in there?

Double Post:
I understand what you mean Phoque. It’s true, it is respectful for immigrants to come here and speak French to us.

Think about this, when you go elsewhere in Canada, you speak English right, and that’s good, I do too. Well otherwise, I probably wouldn’t be understood anyway, hehe, and when I find somebody who speaks French outside of Quebec, it’s always a good experience to talk with them in French a little, everybody loves and prefers their own mother tongue, right, because it’s part of them, it’s in their heart, a language is more than a language, it’s a culture, it’s a way of thinking, it’s a way of living, and I’m sure you understand that since your bilingual.

When you go to Spain, Italy, Germany, Romania, Russia or China; do you (or would you) still speak the local language? And it would be a matter of respect there too, I bet you would be well respected by Germans if you go there and make an effort to speak to them in German, they would be glad (if there is any German in the house, please correct me if I’m wrong :)).

I believe that you never fully understand a culture if you don’t learn the local language. For example, when I was in High School (about 15 years old), I believed that Americans had no culture, and that was probably due to the influence of my fellow Quebecers that were raised the same way as I was (Americans hatred, or dislike if you will). It was when I start learning English (the American way to speak English) and reading original versions of books by Americans that I realized that Americans had a great culture (some part that I liked and some that I didn’t, but still a great culture), only very different from ours, a very powerful culture, for example Americans see it big, they have tremendous will power, and they worship and respect a “don’t quit” mentality. And then it dawned on me: Maybe it’s not by chance that USA is the number one country in the world right now... And still, I haven’t live there yet, so they are probably of lot of things that I don’t understand today about American culture.

Why am I explaining all this? Well, what Quebecers, what we really want is to preserve the culture, our culture, to keep it going, to have our kids living it, and their kids too, and so on. It’s not really the language; the language is a tool for living it, that’s it. The thing is by forcing foreigners to learn French , it won’t help our culture if those foreigners don’t care, because they will only learn the practical part of the language. They have to learn it out of free will; otherwise it means nothing for our culture, because they’ll resign it as soon as they are “free” to do it.

A lot of immigrants have grow up in places where they were forced to comply to their country believes, otherwise they would be very disadvantage (take the communist party for example). I don’t think we want to repeat that...

And even if it would work? Say by forcing our language on the immigrants, it would make them adopt our culture (by force, or law), what kind of culture would that become? The Quebecer culture is a surviving culture, and we’re very proud of that, and the burden to continue it must be our own, it’s our duty to preserve it by teaching it to our kids and by living it everyday… and that way if it eventually dies, well then it didn’t really deserve to stay alive anyway (meaning it wasn't strong enough)...

And if you ask me, it will eventually happen, it will never die but over time, our culture will change, it will change a lot, mainly because of the immigrants; the mix of everyone will create a new culture, kinda like Montreal has a different taste then the rest of Quebec, and that’s fine, that's part of letting immigrants in, that’s evolution of civilisation...

The federa; government requires all of its employees and military offciers to be blingual in order to accomodate the French minority, however, Quebec has no such accomdation for the English minority.

True. In fact, the OLF (Office de la Langue Francaise, Quebec gov't agency that enforces the french language laws) does some pretty underhanded things to try and shuffle English speaking public service workers out of the province.

For example, nurses are required to pass a french language comprehension test every couple of years or risk losing their license. Recently the OLF made the test for nurses to include a lot of mechanical-related things such as asking for the french word for a car's bumper. These were the sort of things that even the best anglo-born nurse would be highly unlikely to know. Not surprisingly, hordes of nurses failed the test.

They were able to reach media outlets and bring attention to what was going on and retake the test. They were also able to get french tutoring tailored specifically for the test. So then the OLF threatened that they would fail them all a second time for cheating.

I shit you not.

La réponse est: bumber. It's easy. ;)

Seriously, this is harsh, even I, have to think about it before coming up with the french answer...

La réponse est pas bumber mais bien pare-choc.

Hector, all posts in GFF need to be in English. Just letting you know.

French grammar tests suck though - they're so difficult. I hope my advanced French classes at McGill don't kill me next fall/winter.

Yup I know that. Sorry for that btw. :P

And yes, French grammar is really hard. I'm a French Canadian and I masterize this language... but damn, I feel you English men who try to learn our language. It's freakin' hard.

It's easier for a French to learn English than the opposite!

I just got my government rating...C/B/B. Sweet!

Are you talking about the "Épreuve Uniforme" in Québec??

No, the federal government's test.

Not if you've been learning French from kindergarten (sic) onwards.

Fact of the matter is Quebec is a predominately french-speaking province, and to not have even a rudimentary grasp of the language is just plain stupid if you intend to live here.

Or think of it this way: The provincial government spends a couple billion dollars a year to educate French and English students. If English students don't understand French, their chances of remaining in the province decrease. And to stem the losses resulting from this "linguistic brain drain" and preserve a French character to the province, the provincial government institutes mandatory French language instruction so that non-French residents can participate in the larger society, and not be relegated to small, isolated communities or forced to leave the province.

A rudimentary undertsanding is a good idea - I'm all for learning French. I just think that things ought to be equal for the English minority in Quebec as they are on the federal level for the French minority. English instruction in French schools, for exmaple,is far below the level of French instruction in English schools.

Hum, I have lived in "canada" for 6 months; i never was able to be served in French at Canada Posts.

And this bilingualism was only a façade created by his assholness to make french quebecers believe they could be served in french coast to coast. True, services in English in Quebec might not be perfect... but at least they have never been abolished

If I look at my canadian friends, their french teaching is as sucky as our english teaching. According to the preceding generation, classes were much harder

You do realize that considering 'Canada' to be seperate from Quebec is asinine right? I mean, yeah, your Ontario friends, or Alberta friends etc. would be accurate, but your seperatist attitude does little to help get your point across.

Have you comlained about not having a french rep at the post office? Did you go to a real post office, or one that is just a corner of a quick-E-mart/drug store? Also, I'm not aware that having the option to deal with government issues in English/French means that they must have a person of each language available on hand at all times. Having the option, doesn't mean that it will be immediate. Just like if someone in Ontario wants their government mail in French, they have to make a request to get it in that language.

Excuse me? did you look at my name/sig? then you would know i'm not separatist. Besides, most politicians from this province (provincially wise) consider quebec to be distinct

In theory, yes; so did trudeau want wrt federal institutions

yes, with the postal boxes and stuff

And you've chosen to regurgitate their terms without noticing that it has a seperatist conotation. You can claim to be anti-seperatist all you want, but if you consider Quebec to be outside the realm of Canada then you might want to think about that.

What the hell are you taling about? Quebec provincial documents arten't even in English, never mind services...