Blu-ray and HD DVD Discussion Thread
 

Some of the posts throughout the forums have led me to believe that there is a genuine interest in HDM, so I thought I'd make this thread. You can post anything related to HD DVD or Blu-ray here, whether it be news, title reviews, technology, personal equipment and collections, or just basic questions. Of course, let's try to leave the format war bickering out of this.

I have just started building my HDM list on online, which you can check out at DVD Aficionado. Still working on the HD DVDs. Good tool to track who has what.

Anyway, based on recent events, it seems that it is finally safe to invest in one format...Blu-ray. Warner and New Line are now BD exclusive, and Paramount and Universal's exclusivity may come shortly. I know a lot of people have been on the fence because of the format war, but I hope these events will convince them to jump in. There's a massive amount of quality releases that simply trump the standard DVD in terms of video and audio.

For instance, I received my long-awaited copy of The Rock on BD last night, and was blown away by the transfer. Better than the Criterion Edition, and far superior to the standard DVD release. My receiver doesn't handle MPCM, so I watched a majority of the movie in standard DD, but the dynamics of the lossless track was a huge step up even in stereo.

This thread may also be useful in condensing any HDM-related deals. At the moment, there's a $20 off coupon at BB that you can use if you buy three BDs. Their prices are outrageous, but if you can manage to return two movies, you'll effectively get a huge discount on one title of your choice. That's because the coupon works by taking $20 off on the most expensive title, so you could get what you really want, then buy two other titles at a lower price and return them later. I'm heading out to try this now, and will report back if it works. Coupon is here:

BEST BUY® | Exclusive Member Offer

TRU is also doing a B1G1 for a couple of Disney titles this week. The great thing about this deal is that there are two coupons available that will stack.

$5 off Disney Blu-ray

This is the first coupon, which will work towards any BD. But you can use it twice since you are getting two titles because of the B1G1.

There's also another $10 off coupon for POTC: AWE here.

Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End

The thing is that this coupon will scan for any BD, and if you get more than one Pirates BD, they will stack. I just came home with Meet The Robinsons and Open Season for only $6.

It looks like HD_DVD has seriously lost now. Universal has just announced that they're no longer remaining HD-DVD exclusive. I'll let the story do the talking...


So no HD-DVD hasn't lost Universal studious, however Blu-Ray has many studio exclusives such as Disney and Sony studios on top of pratically 100% movie studio access.

What do you guys think? Game over, or can HD-DVD still come back?

Any form of defect by Paramount or Universal will spell the end of HD DVD. It doesn't matter if they continue to support HD DVD...it wouldn't change the fact that Blu-ray has 100% support.

Blu-ray has won due to consumer ignorance and novelty, but I cannot consider the BDA's victory undeserved, since Toshiba did a HORRENDOUS job with marketing and deals. They practically sat on their ass as Blu-ray ads went for HD DVD's throat, and did nothing to combat the nearly weekly B1G1 deals offered for popular Blu-ray titles.

No problems with Blu-ray being the standard at my end, since the PS3 is vastly superior at playback in comparison to any HD DVD player. Ridiculously quick load times, and firmware is easily upgradeable to match HD DVD's features. Only concern is whether or not PS3 will be able to decode DTS-HD MA in the future, but that is practically irrelevant since it could be bitstreamed.

Had the opportunity to watch RE: Extinction and Transporter today...great quality on both, although the transfer was a little too soft in certain sports in RE. However, both had fantastic audio, the first having a TrueHD encode, and a DTS-HD MA for the latter. I recommend getting both just for the sound mixes, but not at their current prices.

I only picked them up because the Best Buy scam I had mentioned earlier does indeed work, so Extinction was only $10.

At this point in time, it would be pretty foolish for Universal and Paramount to pledge further exclusive support to HD DVD. I could see them going neutral at best. Even if, for some miraculous reason, they didn't, all the media coverage currently going on predicting the doom of the HD DVD format will surely kill whatever hope remained for Toshiba & Co.

Anyway, my PS3 is going to suffice as a Blu-ray player for now. All my discs work perfectly fine so far, and it actually doesn't look all that bad in an entertainment center. I do hope standalone prices come down sometime soon, so I can get one for the living room. Better load times and 2.0 built-in wouldn't hurt, either.

I'm glad they did a good job with The Rock ... can't wait for it to be released in Europe. Not really surprised that it's a good transfer though - so far, pretty much every single title released by Disney has been phenomenal in the PQ (and AQ) department.

I remember hearing something about certain or almost all early Blu-ray titles using an inferior codec compared to HD DVD. What I'd like to know is if there is a list of those titles, if they've been replaced with superior Blu-ray discs with the better codec, or if there are plans for newer/better versions.

Excellent thread, Megalith. =)))

This thread over at the AVS forums has a huge list of Blu-ray films sorted by picture quality, going from Tier 0 (the very best) to Tier 5 (barely better than upscaled DVD).

It also says which codec was used to encode the film next to each film title.

That's pretty awesome. I just wish whoever made it would have done it in colors that are actually readable against a white background. Thanks. =)

So, if any of you still need the Spiderman trilogy, it is only $43 at Amazon right now.

Looks like someone is up for round 2 ;) Joking aside, all seems to be turning right over to Blu Ray. But I really don't expect to see a big influx of numbers till the end of the year. 2009 will be the year Blu Ray starts.

Additional Spam:
Either April or May we'll see our first $349 stand alone player.

Not to sound meanie or anything, but as soon as HD-DVD royally dies... the better for everyone.

Man, I cant wait for LOTR trilogy coming in HD.

And where the crap is Star Wars!?

The bass and dynamics of the lightsabers are going to be so ridiculous in the Star Wars BDs. I can't wait to hear the duels in Episode I. I'm hoping that Lucasfilm will go with DTS-HD MA, but they'll most likely stick with Dolby TrueHD.

Here's hoping that they actually fix the horrendous mixing job of the Episode III DVD.

Man, I so want a new set of speakers... but importing that shit is unbelievably expensive. (<- Not us citizen)

I guess I'll have to wait.

Bose. The only brand you need for the best sound.

Just visit the web sites of some speaker brands. Most of them deal internationally. I know that Mirage has a dealer in CR, but I have no experience with their omnipolar design.

I'd rather go for a pair of neutral studio monitors myself.

Let's not talk crazy.

Some of thoes movies on that list that Serano linked to seem a bit off. Pirates 2 does not deserve to be on the same level as 3. There's too much noise in the picture.

But discrepencies asside, it's a decent enough list. It at least makes sure that people don't get the shit transfers like 28 Days Later and the Fifth Element

Hmm... I was thinking more in These babies, or These ones or these others or these guys... sadly I just can't trust the reviews/reviewers for this stuff. (And Obviously, some of those are way out of my budget)

Oh well, I heard only good stuff about those cute Usher Audio S-520. I'll probably get a pair to improve the current setup. (And later, get a proper system)

I've heard from various sources that Sennheiser is superior, can this be confirmed or denied by an audiophile?

Yes, but Sennheiser are headphone manufacturers.

Personally, I like Klipsch speakers, but I honestly don't have much experience with speakers because that shit is expensive.

28 Days Later was actually filmed in a low resolution, so no matter how good a transfer it gets, it will not be in true HD, except in the final scenes after they have escaped and holed up on the farm, which were shot on film.

I knew Kingdom of Heaven was out on HD-DVD, but they brought it over to Blu-Ray too??
That's awesome.

I'm definitely going to get a BD player as soon as I upgrade my TV to an HD. I'm just waiting on the sub-40" wide screen TVs to go down in price now.

Well, it's too bad HD DVD is done since that's what I decided to invest in early on, but I'd rather have a Blu-ray-only future than a future with both formats eventually supported in all players and all studios releasing titles in both, since as much as I wanted to, I couldn't see HD DVD taking the full win in the end.

Anyway, selling some of my HD DVDs on eBay and in the market for a used 60 gig PS3 now. Already bought all the Pirates movies since I couldn't pass up some good deals, and anticipate being able to go full-on Blu-ray in the coming months. I'm not going to stop buying HD DVDs until they're completely gone since I'm don't care about having some obsolete discs laying around in the future (finally bought Batman Begins and Transformers), but anything that is on both formats I will buy on Blu-ray now.

I'm honestly amazed at how so many claim that the difference between DVD and HD/BD isn't as big of a deal as VHS to DVD. There is a huge, amazing difference. After accepting that the future is Blu, I find joy in going back to looking for deals on old movies and giving thousands of dollars back to movie companies for rebuying stuff in HD that I've already bought before. At least now there will no longer be the worry of investing in the wrong format and having it all be wasted. Digital downloads can't take over this market. I would never buy a single digitally-delivered movie that I can't feel like I truly own or have on a physical disc, and find it absurd that "experts" claim the mass market would adapt such a method of buying movies. I'm curious what the next format could even be like. 1080p with lossless sound is about as good as you can get, so what else could a new format offer other than increased storage space for more special features, multiple lossless language tracks, or combining multiple movies on one disc.

While I agree with you on the desire to own physical media, I truly think that guys like us will be in the minority soon enough.

A lot of people outside of our age bracket prefer renting over buying. Above that, those same people can't tell the difference between 480p and 1080p. Digital distribution is fine, if not better for people like them, and I think people like them are in the majority. Hell, even I would be content with renting a movie digitally if it was a movie I was just interested in checking out, but not owning. One of the problems with Netflix is that it takes a while for the movies to get here, and one of the problems with Blockbuster is that they may not have copies left. Plus, that involves you leaving the store, and most Americans are lazy, obese, and oftentimes, both.

Why leave the house or wait for shipment when you can just click on a movie you want and have it within minutes/hours depending on your connection? I dunno, I just don't see digital distribution as outlandish a concept as some others. While I may not embrace it as heavily as some others might, I definitely do not see it as a failing venture.

Digital Distribution is a perfect example of demographics at work. Some of the movie-going population will embrace it for the ease-of-use and simplifying what was (before for them) a more complicated and physically demanding exercise in squiring movies.

Yes, most people here (Including myself) will not digitally download new movies in lieu of getting them on a physical medium...

Another example is this: The Wii was the number one Christmas Item and is selling like hotcakes over here. The 360 is performing very well too, but not with most people who bought the Wii, aka first time gamers. While there is an overlap (Such as myself), both machines are marketing towards different demographics and the results are there already.

So, if a person doesn't know or care about the difference between 480p and 1080i and they just want the movie, then digital downloading will seem like this to them "Hey, I used to have to go to the store to rent a DVD, but now I can simply download it and start watching it!". The process will be slower due to the MPAA's sluggish attitude towards new technology like this, but since places like Netflix have already begun the mainstream dissolution between the old method of going to Blockbuster or Hollywood Video and paying the couple of dollars and driving back, and the new method of just waiting for the movie to start playing, this new disribution method WILL have people who will think its the best thing since sliced bread, and others who would sooner disembowel themselves on a pike before giving up their hard-coded movies. This is of course, if they market it correctly.

tl;dr: The digital download market is there and will be successful to a degree.

Hmm... this may be a good place to make a small question...

Bookshelf vs Floorstanding speakers?

Microsoft seems to be pushing for this. Although I don't see it being too successful till we see more area's of the world have a high rate transfer. The US isn't ready for this. There may be a minority for it but as a whole, I just don't see it catching on so quick. DVD's will still continue to be seller of movies while Blu Ray plays catch up with it. By 2009, we'll see a large HD base out throughout the world. By then, we'll see if Blu Ray really takes off. DD will probaby much more known during that time as well. It'll probably come down to personal preferences in the end. Download copy vs Software copy. Personally, I rather have the library in case and hand, not as a file stored onto a hard drive.

I can understand the average person becoming comfortable with rentals and individual song purchases, but full HD movie downloads for purchase would come at a significantly higher price. Your average person can throw a buck or two away here and there, but I doubt they'll throw away twenty or thirty bucks when the time comes to choose between buying a movie/tv series on a physical disc that they can keep, collect, organize, take to their friend's/family's house, in favor of DRM-filled expensive digital files with heavy restrictions and the risk of hardware failure or other issues essentially taking away their property.

Perhaps the popularity of iPods and digital downloads of music may suggest this isn't true, but I simply cannot see the same thing happen to the movie industry. Problem with music is people just don't care as much as they used to, and not very many people really want to be forced to pay $13 for 12 songs when they only really want 5 songs on the disc. This type of nonsense doesn't happen with movies, and it's just easier and more logical to maintain a library of movies than music CDs.

Are you confusing Kingdom of Heaven with The Kingdom? Kingdom of Heaven is a Fox title, and is Blu-ray exclusive.

Additional Spam:
The decision between bookshelves and floorstanders can actually be complex. My recommendation is to stay away from floorstanders if you have a small room that isn't treated. Floorstanders are typically more bassy and overpowering...since low bass sounds best when it has room to travel, playing them in a small room may introduce nodes and a boomy sound, which I find intolerable. However, you could probably get away with it as long as you don't use a crossover lower than 80 Hz...at 60 Hz, you will most likely run into problems, since the seating position in small rooms is very close to the back wall...where bad bass is likely to be heard.

On the other hand, a surround set-up with 5-7 identical floorstanders is commonly seen as ideal. In such a design, you wouldn't have to crossover any of the bass from the main channels and sum everything up to the subwoofer...assuming that the speakers have a low and accurately spec'd F3. This means that the bass will be played from where it was originally intended when the sound was mixed. Theoretically, you'd get a fuller and more lively sound due to the increased presence of stereo bass (summed up bass sent to a subwoofer is mono). Your sub would only handle the LFE signal, as it was originally intended to do, and you wouldn't have to worry about any holes since there would be no crossover engaged.

...I think I'm making things too complicated, so here's a list:

Bookshelves:

+ Arguably better imaging.
+ Small size makes it easier to align tweeter at ear level.
- Bass response is typically limited.
- Lower power handling.

Floorstanders:

+ Low bass response.
+ Most designs are intricate and feature multiple drivers, such as seperate mid-range for cleaner dialogue.
+ High power handling, so they can easily hit reference levels.
- Placement more difficult due to size and bass capability, especially with ported designs.

Heh... I was kinda lost.

But I think I get your point, I was thinking in going bookshelves anyways: I'm having some serious problems allocating my current small and cheap system, and the walls and windows have a nasty time when I put the volume at "bad neighbor" levels (= a room not made for this stuff).

And it's time for another question!
- Should I get the same speakers for everything? (7.1 setup)
Besides the center and subwoofer, Im not sure what to get for the surrounds. I was tempted to get something like these ones. (But cheaper :()
And for the frontal and back the same stuff.

True, but like with DVDs, I highly doubt downloaded movies will cost the same as their Blu-Ray counterparts. A movie on iTunes is what, $9.99? Sometimes $14.99? That's vastly cheaper than the new release DVDs. I anticipate a similar price point for HD movie downloads. What you gain in affordability and simplicity you will ultimately lose in quality. Maybe not entirely for video (H264 is pretty incredible), but audio I'm sure will take a hit with compression.

Again, people like us may see/hear the difference, but John Q. Factory Worker won't.

Not really. Lower than the suggested MSRP, sure, but the actual DVD is usually on sale for around that price the first week. And those are physical copies, with extras and such.

And downloaded movies will likely never hit the major low that DVD's will in mega-cheap bargain bin sales that BB and CC like to do. Download a movie for $5 or less? It'll be a cold day in hell before a studio lets you do that.

Absolutely. Identical speakers for all channels are ideal. You could try getting seven M3 v2 bookshelves. I wouldn't even bother with a typical center channel unless you must have a horizontal design due to placement issues. Even if the center channel is part of the same speaker line from the same company, it won't sound the same as the others, because the horizontal design is a compromise and changes the sound dispersion significantly.

Regarding surrounds, I prefer monopole (direct-firing), rather than dipole (dual out-of-phase output) or bipole (dual output) configuration. Dipole and bipole surrounds can create the sense of a more immersive surround field and a less localizable sound, but I can't think of any sound mixers who actually use them while mixing.

Woah, that's good to know... and the whole set of M3 v2 is under $1000!!!. (Well, 3 pairs... the additional guy doesn't push the price that much).

And just noticed that Axion has an online store: this made my day.

Man, I forgot about the subwoofer... and since I'm going Axiom, it would be a good idea to go that way too... but this pushes the price another $560... and the the cable and connectors... another $300. Crap once again on the $2000 mark... my day ended here. :(

Heh... j/k, besides I'm planning to do this upgrade in the future, maybe at this year's end or the next year. 1.5-2 years would be more than enough to get the money and make a good plan to evade the retarded super high import duties.

Thanks for the help dude!

you should all take a look at this article. kind of puts a new light on the High-def format wars, and a newfound source of anger at it all:

DRM and the tech industry's "girlie men"

I did not expect a price drop to $150, but I guess it's the format's swan song.

Hell, I'd get one and never take it out of the box.

Wow. HD-DVD is dead.

Wal-Mart to Go Blu-ray Exclusive | High-Def Digest

Report: Toshiba to Drop HD DVD | High-Def Digest

To top it off, the year's biggest HD releases, such as Indiana Jones, Dark Knight, and X-Files 2, will all be Blu-ray exclusive. I guess it is over. Now I have to sound like a retarded jap whenever I ask if a movie is available.

Just give me my overpriced AVP: Requiem.

Gooood, the sooner the better.

Btw dude, found a Polk Audio retailer on the country... the guys are giving me the real price + taxes (Completely acceptable).

The problem is... Axiom is shipping internationally and the price is pretty much the same. (And everyone loves Axiom)

What should I choose!?

What are the specific models?

Oh...

Bookshelf Speakers: Millennia M3 v2 - Axiom Audio
vs
RTi A1 Product Page : High-performance Bookshelf Loudspeaker : Polk Audio

And there is a good chance that I'll get floorstanding for the fronts (I can solve the space problem):

Floorstanding Speakers : Millennia M60 v2 - Axiom Audio
vs
RTi A7 Product Page : High-performance Freestanding Loudspeaker : Polk Audio

From what I have been reading Polk's require 130+W/channel Amps to work as intended, my current 90W/Channel are certainly not close but and I'm not willing to upgrade something that works just fine... at least during this year.

Internet loves axiom, looks like they offer the best speaker for the money.. and their service people is amazing. (I have been talking with them about the shipping and stuff)

Now, I would go Axiom... but if something wrong happens, I'll have to pay the shipping back (Not cool), with the Polk's I just don't have that problem.

Naturally, I'm seriously thinking in taking this stuff to AVS, but dude... that place is kinda intimidating. (heh, at least for me)

Is it possible for you to audition the Polks? Nearly all speaker reviews are oddly positive, and for every good thing someone says about a speaker, there is always a bad thing that is said right alongside it. The bottom line is that you can only trust what you hear. But buying blind is fine if you can't audition...both my Infinitys and Mackies were bought blind.

I just don't buy any of this hype from internet dealers. I'm sure that the products are good, but most of the reviews are probably biased, as many of the customers are the type that purchase on faith, since they lack the privilege of going around different dealers and surveying multiple brands...thus, there isn't really a wide spectrum for them to dabble into when they make their judgements.

Too much true in those words.

Oh, and the reviews (that I'm considering) for the Axiom are based on stuff outside their site... after the TV I learned that people is extremely biased to the stuff they just bought. Granted speakers are been much more difficult than the TV. (Way too many options and in general, people base their entire perception on plain opinions)

For the auditing, I can go and hear the Polk's, sadly I have no idea what I am "looking" for. If I had to compare those with my current set, I would expect something impressive but that's all (lol, if those speakers can't humiliate my current $300 configuration, I'll get pissed and spit the face of everything related to expensive audio stuff).

Any ideas for what should I "look"?

I'm really glad that one of the formats are dead, more formats means more players means more space taken up on my entertainment center, not to mention more money to spend on multiple players. Personally I was rooting for the Blu-Ray cuz I am eventually getting a PS3, so not only will that be my Blu ray player, but I won't have to buy a HD-DVD player

It depends which party you belong to. There are people who enjoy neutral sound, and then there are people who enjoy colored sound.

If you belong to the first group, you can bring an accurate pair of headphones to gauge the neutraility of the speaker's output. If you belong to the second, then you will just have to sit down and listen to determine what kind of sound you like.

Objectivity can be applied to the concept of neutral sound, but the quality of colored sound is always subjective. Since the majority of people are usually more concerned about "quality" rather than neutrality, I refuse to tell people what sounds "good," since ultimately, I can't. One man's emphasis on treble is another man's recipe for harshness, etc. Just sit down, listen to a few of your CDs, and stick with whatever sounds best to you.

EDIT: On the topic of CDs, I would bring a couple of movie scores or symphonies which feature a wide dynamic range. In my opinion, commercial pop/rock CDs are practically worthless to gauge performance. They are specifically mixed to sound good on even the most lowly equipment, since almost all dynamic range is compressed...meaning that you won't be able to gauge a speaker's ability to transition from low to high passages, or it's ability in maintaining a low noise floor (though most of the latter is influenced by amp/connections). I've found that scores like Episode III have sounded like complete trash on inadequate equipment, so it might be a good idea to pick a couple of scores that revolve around raw orchestrations, while ignoring more of the electronic-stuff, like Crimson Tide (which sounds oddly smooth and pleasant on almost all equipment).

Hmm... I think I read something about it: colored sound works specially fine for those who intend to use their to play mostly certain music genres and stuff. However the coloration may become quite nasty on other sources. (Heh, don't kill me that's what I understood)

In my case, I listen pretty much anything that catch my fancy... and since this set is going for games, music and movies of several genres... I think it is safe to go with something neutral.

Toshiba Officially Drops HD DVD | High-Def Digest
Breaking: Universal Studios Goes Blu | High-Def Digest

Wonder if Universal will change their menu for the BD version, since they've become practically synonomous with HD-DVD. I'd like to say that I'm very excited to see the BD versions of stuff like Bourne Ultimatum, but they'll probably be identical to the HD-DVD.

I would guess this thread can be closed/renamed since HD-DVD is finally dead?

I am extremely excited for Serenity and Hot Fuzz, but the Bourne movies are not far behind.

Furthermore...

Paramount Goes Blu

So now all major studios have gone Blu-Ray, right?

Megalith, can you explain in further detail about the concept of Neutral sound and Colored sound?

An explanation:

If you want the entire article, I can PM it to you.

Toshiba Cell Broadband Video Processor &mdash; Audioholics Home Theater Reviews and News

This is rather interesting. After the defeat of HD-DVD, Toshiba has decided to go back to maxing out the potential of DVD, and they've created some kind of super-upscaling technology, with the involvement of the CELL processor. Judging by the comparisons, it is a legitimate advancement in upscaling. I think it's a smart play.

http://www.audioholics.com/education...mo-2.jpg/image

If you look at the rope texture, you can see that it still isn't the level of HD, but I'm assuming this is even better than REON performance.

Personally I'd like to see Toshiba and Sony team up...

Then again I'd also like to see some real games for the PS3 lol.

But the upscale looks pretty good.

I'm pretty sure that Toshiba manufactures the cell processor that is found inside of your Playstation Trois.

ORLY? Don't have a PS3 yet lol.

Come on, they need to improve the absorption of HD media... and they give a new chance to the DVD!?

Seriously, I hope it doesn't get too much attention.

Ok, I know that sounds eh... meanie?, but the sooner BR gets a bigger user base, the faster we get LoTR/Star Wars love on HD.

Edit: Stupid English.

I think more of the whole "breath of air to DVD" thing you speak of is more that, there are movies that people MUST get on NexGen DVD (300, Eragon, The Golden Compass, Maybe LoTR) And then there are the movies people won't want to get and also the TV series as well. So I think its good that Toshiba is trying to make a good upconvert player.

I'm curious to know what the price is going to be.

Dude, you make it sound like if HD was bad in some way. All content should come in both formats! (Hehe... is not bad to dream about it)

The moment you taste HD, you just cant go back.

Now if it comes as a "standard" on hi-end HD players... the whole thing changes.

Maybe as standard is too much, but you get the idea.