Star Trek VS Star Wars
 

It's that age old topic again (or is it the first time on here?) anyway which do you prefer and why, what makes them so good or bad? or why you don’t care. so let's make some conversation

I feel that Star Trek does a better job of expressing the characters' past and emotions. Also, given that Star Wars has "The Force," Star Trek feels a bit more believeable.

Thats a good point but most people I know seem to think we are closer to Star wars then Star Trek. I dont see how though. Personally I'm a Trekki so I'm a little one sided here, I didnt really enjoy the Star wars movies but at the same time they werent bad. I'd rather watch William Shatner.

GarretTheThief, you have missed Stargate. That's the serie of my choice ;) .

It isn't that the Star Wars movies are bad. Both Star Trek and Star Wars are quite enjoyable. With Star Wars is was more of a classic good against evil. My problem with it, though, is that we knew the heroes would eventually win. With Star Trek, it was more of a "What's happening in the universe?" It's really a matter of preference.

lol, ya man, they have sweet MP7's now on that show. Along with the already sexy P90.

I am aware of that. I wanted to keep this conversation between the two because they are more well known than Stargate, I am a big Stargate Fan though (SG-1 though) also because there is always this big war going on with these two about which one is better

Maybe there's always a big war because they're the oldest and both start with Star. I could be wrong, though.

Well, i don't particularly like either of them that much, but i think over all Star Wars is alot more interesting. Star Trek seems to get a bit old and samey. I haven't seen it in years so i can't really comment that much but yeah. Star Wars stories are more gripping to me

I love Star Trek simply because the spin offs such as Generation, and Deep Space Nine were so good. Also I liked alot of the characters plus the intergalatic politics between the races.

I really like SG-1, especially the earlier series,(I liked the original film too), but I don't care much for the spin off.

SG-1 was amazing. I haven't watched the most recent ones because it got a bit boring. I'm not a huge fan of TV anyway. My parents are completely hooked on Watching SG-1 and Atlantis though so i hear all about it

Yeah, because having a captain get possessed by an alien energy being and then transporting himself out into the void of space - only to be brought back because of the transporter buffer containing his residual Id signature is so believable

Also: You die when you fall on flowers

Midichlorians!

Star Trek and Star Wars are both pretty good. But they are not really the same: Star Wars would be best classified as an action type movie, not scifi, since there is not really any "sci" to it. Star Trek seems more real, and more thought is put into how their devices actually work and everything.

Both Stargates seem kinda cheesy to me, then again so are Wars and Trek. Just doesn't get me though.

What you really want is Battlestar Galactica (the new one). There's a good show.

This thread is going to end up in the Sewers really fucking quick.

Saying Star Wars isn't sci-fi is a retarded statement at best. "Next Generation isn't sci-fi because they had episodes with Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes, Mark Twain! It must be a historical drama!"

Except that, you know, Star Trek bends the laws of physics with technobabble just as much as Star Wars.

This thread is going to end up in the Sewers quicker than I thought.

Borg for the tiebreaker! Trek is leading (at least for the moment).

I agree with you Ottonabs.

THis poll is kind of like saying "Do you like 'Wonderous Sci Fi Show' or 'Huge Action Show' better?"

I hate Star Trek. I've tried to watch a few episodes, but I just can't do it. I have to change the channel. Star Wars on the other hand, is much more interesting to me and I've enjoyed all of the movies. (The Empire Strikes Back being the best of them.)

I share this sentiment. I can't get past the idea of "This is dudes flying around in space doing diplomacy and science, which, while both are mildly interesting, they're certainly not much fun to watch. Meanwhile, over here we have Star Wars, which is a war in space. With lightsabers." The choice is simple.

I don't even want to participate in this poll.

Why do people even compare these totally unrelated science fiction (I am of the opinion that Star Wars is more so fantasy than it is sci fi) franchises? One is a TV show, one is a series of movies. There's really nothing similar between them except SPACE.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3...closeup5qh.jpg
Darth Vader!

VERSUS

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/7509/bscap0299oi.jpg
Numbah One!

Going by this relevant and totally fair costume comparison, I would have to say I prefer Star Wars.

Both have their good points, but Star Trek is far more "realistic" (in a loose sense of the term...). I mean, there are things in ST that could be made at some point in the not-too-distant future and are useful, like the transporter, replicator, universal translator or the medical tricorder. And ST has inspired people to create things as well -- in that sense it's realistic.

Star Wars is a huge amalgam of every archetypal mythic character, which is my theory as to why so many people instantly fall in love with the series. I love it, but it's so fantastical and over the top that it doesn't seem quite as down-to-earth as ST. Even though it deals with human emotions and problems, it's not as personal and detailed as the human experiences that the characters in ST have; this might be due to the fact that ST is a TV series, so they have a lot of episodes in which to explore each character, whereas SW only has six movies (and legions of books, but not everyone reads those...).

I like them both, in their own ways. But Star Trek has been a favorite of mine since I was quite young, so I'll have to go with it.

Star Wars - Without Jar Jar Binks and the Ewoks!
 

I never watched Star Trek, not because I don't like it, but because in my country ST is not known very much.

Star Wars on the other hand is very well known. I watched the movies for the first time in 2005, before Episode III premiered. I had never liked Star Wars before *watching* the movies... after that, I found myself on the cinema on May 19 to see Episode III. And I always though going the opening day was a geek thing... you know, those dressed like Stormtroopers. And there *were* some that day! Just not as many as seen on the United States. :)

Anyway, SW is my preference. I'd watch Star Trek to *know* it at least... How many ST movies are there?

Star Wars is fantasy in space. Star Trek is a fictional account of humanity's future. Enjoy both of them and stop wasting time debating whether one is the best.

Quoted for fucking truth. I'd shake your hand for that.

Maybe we can roll up this "discussion" again when the Star Wars TV show thingy airs.

Star Wars has the Spinoff Trilogy and Star Trek has Voyager, so both suck at some parts. Babylon 5 wins. Yay for Lando. *crowd goes wild*

Huh, weird, I just got through this exact topic on another board fairly recently...like last week. Pretty much all of us responded the same, "apples and oranges, brosef." But for the sake of it, I like (most of) Star Wars, but in regards to Star Trek, I have only watched Star Trek: Voyager avidly and very few of the other series, and I suppose having little to no knowledge of the original series and such is why I liked Voyager so much. I don't really feel like I can base all of Trek on that alone, so I can't even begin to make a fair choice between the two. I don't really prefer one over the other at this point, though...I guess my answer is "neither."

If there existed no such thing as any Star Trek tv series (Face it...Next Generation, Voyager, Deep Space Nine, etc. all suck balls.) and just on the movies...Id say it would be kind of close. The movies were great (up until the one where TNG met up with Captain Kirk and thereafter).

Talk about a thread guaranteed to ignite some flame wars...

I chose niether. If you had asked me in 1995, I would have said Star Trek was better. If you'd asked in 1998, Star Wars would have come out on top. The fact is, the wheels are off of both franchises right now; they've both been driven into the ground, and I have no desire to see any more content from either, since it will only further tarnish what good there was.

Star Wars generally has more adventure, while Star Trek is heavier on social issues and philosophical themes. Both are laden with technobabble, and both have the ability to create endearing characters and place them in a rousing situation. But neither has since 1993.

If Star Wars had ended forever in 1983, as God intended, and Star Trek had expired in 1993, rather than limping to a close last year, the issue would have been close, maybe even "apples and oranges" close. But I'm now in the position where I neither seek out nor care for new content in either case, with few exceptions.

Both series had a hand in getting sci-fi respect as a film and television genre, but their days are over.

I honestly don't care which is "better". They're vastly different in many ways and both are spoiled by respective legions of fanboys who won't listen to logic as they debate the most inane minutae.

Also, both series grew progressively worse as people tinkered with the original formulas that made each so enjoyable.

Star Wars uses lightsabers. Star Trek uses remote controls. Star Wars wins.

I like both, though they're don't have many commonalities beyond using a lot of technology far advanced to our own. I don't think it's a very good comparison to begin with.

Since what people typically compare are the Star Trek television series with the Star Wars movies, I'll ignore the Star Trek movies. First of all, comparing a movie with a syndicated series isn't really fair. The movies don't have nearly the time to flesh out the multiple subtle story arcs typically taking place behind the main one like TV shows do. Likewise, their character delevopment is a lot less complete. It would really be more fair to compare a movie to a miniseries, but whatever.

Though I'm a fan of Star Wars, I like Star Trek more if for no other reason than Deep Space Nine, which is where I will completely disagree with Crash's sentiment that the franchise should've ended in '93. That series is not only the best Star Trek series I've seen, but one of the straight-up best TV shows I've ever seen. It had the standard technobabble scifi episodes like every other series, but its commentary on social and political issues was unmatched. Some episodes were obvious and lame, but the majority of them were exceptionally written and performed.

The acting in DS9 is some of the best I've ever seen, ever, with a group of people who really get a feel for their characters. They all have subtleties of their own, and though some occasionally fall into certain stereotypes, they're the minority. Fortunately, they're all also written really well, and I wasn't ever left with the feeling that a character was being pushed in an unnatural direction.

I appreciated, too, how the writers could occasionally just let go and have a comedic episode that was close to being ridiculous. I really felt like they maintained a sense of fun throughout the entire run of the show. Some of the subtle characterizations throughout the episodes left me howling just as much as most comedy shows have.

It takes a couple of seasons to really get going at full steam, but if you're patient enough to let the actors and writers feel their way through some things, I'd really recommend watching it.

That said, it's not really comparable to Star Wars because it has such a long period of time to allow you to get to know the characters and their subtleties. Star Wars has a lot of stereotyped characters, but since it's not a drama it was kind of forced into using them. The majority of the screentime is devoted to plot development and action, so exploring each of the characters in such depth, though it would be cool, isn't realistic.

Pointless thread. We should be comparing Sci Fi TV shows to Trek and space-war movies to star wars.

Star Wars.

I could not really get into Star Trek for some reason. It just seemed so... goody goody. Mankind is this wonderfully accepting species and the aliens are bad. Where as in Star Wars the humans are kicking ass and oppressing the aliens as it should be. Fuck yeah! Oppression!

Not to say I think Star Trek is bad, as I think it's pretty cool, but in my opinion Star Wars whoops it's butt. I was more fond of the characters, and the combination of the story spanning six movies (most of which were quite long) and the powerful music gave it a very epic feel.

Although I have this theory... it's something I've noticed among my friends and family and I'm wondering how true it is. It seems more creative-minded people favor Star Wars, while the technical types prefer Star Trek. Such as my sister and I who want to go into writing and game development respectively prefer Star Wars, while my dad and girlfriend who are engineers like Star Trek.

I despised classes like calculus and love acting. I think of myself as a pretty creative person. I prefer Star Trek.

I think what it more comes down to, is do you prefer a standard good vs. evil fantasy story, or a show that often comments on social issues and examines human nature?

I really prefer Star Trek as a whole. The sci fi, intergalactic diplomacy is something that I enjoy. It is understandable that Star Wars would receive more popularity as it is an easier to understand story compared to Star Trek due to the depth difference between the two.

Hey! There's depth in Star Wars... just there's not enough time in the movies to be too deep. Give Star Wars some TV series and you'll see you won't be saying that.

Thats got to be one of the worst things ever said in the history of the internet. It's like your high horse is riding on an even higher horse, with you on top of the two. Get over yourself.

Incorrect. He has a point.

Its not high horse. Im only speaking of what I think. Truly I do believe to a certain extent that Star Trek is more sci-fi than Star Wars. Star Trek takes a lot more time to explain more of its phenomena than Star Wars. Sure Star Trek does have its time where episodes do not have any relation to sci-fi itself but considering the overall universe.. Star Trek does take more time in developing it.

Star Trek expands on its universe far more than Star Wars. Consider how much development the Star Trek writers have expanded on the Vulcans, Romulans, Klingons and Borg versus the development of ewoks, gungans or wookies. Technology is explained in greater depth in Star Trek than in Star Wars.

However you should consider that Star Trek is a tv show thus has a lot more time to expand on these races and go in greater depth than Star Wars was able to. Really though... I would consider Star Trek as a mystery sci-fi as to Star Wars as action sci-fi. What if Star Wars had a tv show? That's an if... who knows?? Maybe they might expand on it but you can't say for sure.

It's all about the the lightsabers and the force.
When I was in like the 6th or 7th grade there was a college student helping the art teacher to help us. He and a group of my friends were talking about star wars and star trek. I said, "star wars is cool but star trek sucks!" He looked at me and said, "hey, take that back." hahaha, but star trek doesn't have darth vader and light sabers.

You DO realize what you're saying, right? You're coming out swinging by saying "Item A is better than Item B because I think it's smarter!"

Thats no way to quantify anything. Saying Star Trek is smart isn't smart at all, just like how everyone on the internet thinks they're a misunderstood genius. All you have an overinflated sense of ego.

Two words: Morality Play

TOS dealt with issues of racisim, TNG dealt with the horrors of technology, DS9 dealt with issues of war/policing, Voyager dealt with - well, it reiterated TOS and TNG and so did Enterprise.

That didn't take any time to explain, did it? There's a very easy to understand overall spectrum to the series. It's very optimistic, for the most part. To read any further into it is to do yourself discredit.

"All Animals Are Equal But Some Are More Equal Than Others"

Thats not a valid point at all. Yes, it has more time to develop it because it has 5 TV shows and 10 movies. If anynthing, Star Wars is a better series because it says as much with less material.

Quantify that statement with facts, please.

Subtexts Found In Star Wars Prequels

The Jedi Are A Bunch Of Assholes

One needs only to mention that they live in an ivory tower to make this near-literal. But then think about it this way - the Jedi allow slavery to exist unless it suits the needs of one malcontent Jedi? And how the heck are the Jedi these great negotiators if they're working "under"/with the Supreme Chancellor?

Yoda Is A Narcissistic Jerk

A lot of people blame Obi-Wan for the creation of Darth Vader, but it goes deeper than that. For all Obi-Wan's mistakes, he also trains Luke well and tells him things like "stretch out with your feelings" or "your feelings do you credit", "you must do what you feel is right" and above all "trust your feelings!". But Yoda tells us that "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate" and all that. Is Yoda lying? Manipulative?

Not to mention Yoda refuses to allow either Anakin or Luke into Jedi Knighthood because of their age. Thats usually a subtext found in cults - get them while their young, warp their minds to your ends. Is Yoda so afraid of individuality amongst his students?

(Theres a third subtext but it's only backwards compatible. Yoda warns Luke not to underestimate the power of Emperor Palpatine "or suffer your father's fate". He fails to mention - again, this is whats called 'retcon' - that Yoda himself got his ass-kicked by Palpatine in the Senate chamber. On top of that, the whole statement is pretty damned mean; he's basically telling Luke that he's going to end up a guy getting beaten down and burnt to cinder)

Anakin Has An Oedipus Complex

Anakin had a pretty stable relationship with his mother until he was taken from her by Qui-Gon. After a number of years, he starts having dreams about her (I'm not even going near that joke) and he realizes he has to save her. When he does find her, she dies in his arms before he can hear that she still loves him.

This more or less enforces Anakin's abandonment issues with women, between his mother and his relationship with his wife. Think about it - he loves Padme but only in secret? The reason this is an Oedipus complex instead of a fear of rejection/abandonment/replacement is because of Obi-Wan as the father/brother figure. Obi-Wan certainly wants whats right for Anakin (even if it's not what the Council may want, per se - because Obi-Wan wants Anakin to come to his senses about not only the Dark Side, but inadvertently Padme as well) but thats at odds with how Anakin wants to come to the same ends. (Anakin wants to save Padme through the Dark Side, Obi-Wan wants to save them both through Anakin's turning back)

Thats a major failure in writing. The term "technobabble" was coined to berate early episodes of TNG because of their inability to resolve issues like Holodeck malfunctions or Picard transporting himself into space without mentioning crazy technical speak.

Oh, yeah, Star Trek has a lot in common with Dashell Hammet, doesn't it?

As wierd as it may seem (i'm a weirdo anyway), i've despised star trek ever since my youth because of... the language. During the next generation (which my father watched) there was no french version at all. SO I never had any interest.

However, star wars has got my interest for quite a while now. It started mainly with the special editions (with which I convinced myself to try harder to understand English... IT'S DEATH STAR, NOT BLACK STAR YOU RETARD!!)

Why? I can't tell... but i like it!|

Para did not say Star Trek is smarter. He said it's harder to understand compared to a series that is about war and drama/emotion.

My five year old cousin likes Star Wars because its fun and exciting to him. He can't stay focused on the TV when Star Trek is on.

So instead of Para saying it - you'll just making an awful neon sign of an insinuation in the following sentence...

Perhaps something is wrong with him, or perhaps he just doesn't like it Star Trek? Because between you and me, one of my earliest memories is watching reruns of TOS with my dad and loving every second of them. (When you're at that early age, you don't notice that the sets and effects are uber-cheap looking. You're just like "Wow! Space Monsters!")

Saying that your idiot 5 year old cousin doesn't like Star Trek is like saying my cousin's sister's half-brother's wife doesn't like it. That doesn't mean shit to anyone here since you can't quantify shit with age.

(Don't I remember having a pissing match with you earlier this year that ended with you looking like a fag and being tempbanned? Don't Marty McFly this shit and do it again)

While I do like Star Wars and enjoy alot of it.. I like Star Trek a bit more. Though it's kind of unfair to compare the two. They're not really the same.

But I mainly like Star Trek more because I've grown up watching it and enjoy some of the technology that was in it right now. If you think about it some of the things on the Star Trek series have become reality. Or rather, some of the technology we use now is similiar to some of the things in Star Trek. Which did not exist or were only ideas when they were used in the show.

I might even go as far to say Star Trek offered ideas that allowed some of the things we use or will use to be invented. It gave people ideas and they tried it. Though I'm sure that's probably not true. You never know though. :P

Because Star Trek is basicly a story about what we could be I like it alot more than Star Wars. Which is just a story with alot of things that just cannot happen in the real world. Yes, I enjoy fantasy and there's nothing wrong with it. But I like to think about how we will evolve in technologic areas and Star Trek offers a pretty good view of it.

I have always liked Star Wars more. I found some of the earlier Star Trek shows pretty good (particularly those before Voyager), but Star Wars always held a greater interest for me. In my case, the main pulls were the villains in the Star Wars universe along with John Williams amazing scores for all six films.

I like Star Trek because of Bones, and I like Star Wars because of Alec Guiness. In a fight, I think Bones would win. Therefore, I like Star Trek more.

This is very simple. Star Wars makes for great books - the whole good vs evil thing works great. I could see it becoming good TV if they did it something like Prison Break where there is a story that flows from one episode to the next. The Star Trek TV show format works very well for Star Trek, but it wouldn't work for Star Wars.

Having said that, I like them both equally, but I like them for different reasons. I much prefer Babylon 5 to either of them though.

The problem with that statement is that most EU writers are complete dumbasses and would rather tell us about some found Imperial superweapon ten times more powerful than a Death Star and it's in the form of an ancient Sith lightsaber!

LeHah, I love your arguements! :D You give actual reasons for... whatever! That "subtexts" part... I hadn't even noticed that about Yoda.

So, when's George Lucas releasing that TV series that happens between Ep. III and Ep. IV? If they don't give it a *big* budget I hope they don't make it at all...

The point is, Star Wars is easier to follow for him.

And I was never tempbanned. I helped save GFF in the first place. All I remember from the BSG thread is me making another argument and you never replying again.

My cousin isn't an idiot. Fuck you to hell.

You just don't understand real life. You can't accept that Star Wars is more likeable to the young ones because its easier to follow and understand.

That doesn't quantify shit, though. My cat is entertained by birds - that doesn't make Star Trek stupid or smart.

WHAT

Oh yeah, thats right.

I didn't respond to your ass-fuckery after a while because you were going in circles like a retarded kid stuck on a leash and running around their parent's legs.

Oh, eat the creamy, loving shit that comes out of my ass at 8:30 every morning, you jizzbomb. CRY ME SOME FUCKING TEARS, AFRIKA.

Post of the Year.

How can you quantify liking a movie as "real life"? How is it that you demand that "Star Wars is more likeable" because its "easier to follow"? How is it that you continue to post the same nonsense repeatedly, get the same responses and then still demand that the other person is wrong? I mean - are you the *only* correct person in the world?

See, the problem is you don't make concise points at all. You never have, either. I understand "real life" - I hold a working job, pay my bills, pay my rent, drive a car to work, fight traffic, go out to the bar with friends, have a social life and if I'm lucky, cram my dick down some slut's throat. See, those things - work, friends, sex - are real life, not your asinine fucktard opinion for geekery in 2006. Real life isn't about Star Wars being easier to understand than Star Trek - because Topic A (Real Life) has nothing to do with Topic B (Star Wars / Star Trek).

In trying to get through to you, am I just trying to squeeze an orange to get apple juice? Is this futile? Am I the bigger idiot because I expect you to suddenly start having reasonable responses and posts involving deductive logic instead of monkey-shit-smeared dumbass niggerpot middle school fucktardisms? Is it too fucking much that I want you to make yourself a reasonable human being?

Well, perhaps - given that we're still both posting in a rather stupid thread subject.

But get this much - you *never* make points. See, you can say "Star Trek is smarter!" till you're blue in the face - but you don't have any facts to lay down as foundation. I can say "Niggers steal shit!" and then tell you that demographicly, black people have been second class citizens and are forced to steal and cheat and cut each other's throats because thats what they learned to do to survive.

Which statement has more weight? Mine does - I told you why black people are always taking shit off my laundry line and hiding in my garbage cans. You didn't tell me anything except the topic. Thats ... not interesting, or intelligent.

Get with the smart posting, dickless.

I like how my post was deleted for being off topic, and yet the previous posts remain.

As I stated before:

UT OH, INTERNET WAR :tpg:

UT OH, THREAD BAN

You don't understand reality. The reality that if you asked a full classroom of children which one they would rather watch, the majority would raise their hands for Star Wars. If you think that is false, then you have a lot to learn about what majority rule thinks. If the kids were subjected to Star Wars and Star Trek, they would also raise their hands in saying the Star Wars movie was better & more entertaining to them.
If you disagree with the above, then... wow. In fact, sometimes I think you argue with people just to fulfill your sad little life, when in reality you don't even believe what you're saying. Nobody is stupid enough to actually believe that Star Wars is harder to understand.

I don't want to see you reply on it. I'm done talking about it.

Furthermore, arguing with you is like arguing with my 23 year old friend. After about one minute he resorts to personal attacks and swear words. You lost all credibility. You have zero credibility in any of your posts because of it. I'm done talking about it. I've never in my years at GFF or in any board seen anyone as pointless to argue with than you. I'm done fueling your mass immaturity or this "tactic" you have to have fun with yourself.

Go ahead, reply to each and every one of these sentances. You will be doing it for nothing.

Goodbye.

I want you to quantify that with facts. Let me see you do it - let me see a poll or a CNN pie-chart or a survey or something. Until you do that, you will not and cannot be taken seriously.

Telling me the sky is red does not make it red. Telling me rotten food is delicious does not make it so. Telling me that a room full of children agree with you does not make a plausable arguement just because.

You'd have a point if you were a majority. You speak for Borg1982, but not Mrs Krim's first grade class. Do you see what I'm getting at yet?

See my original arguement. You can sell me all this crap but no one is buying it. The fact that you run a produce stand does not reserve you the right to throw rotten fruit at people because they will not buy it. Stop acting like the imaginary children you profess as your evidence.

I do disagree. Adamently. See, its not hard to fight against something when theres nothing there. You are a house without a basement, a church without pillars. There is no logical grounding for anything you're saying so far and I'm getting the feeling that you don't quite understand that. I'm trying not to lose my temper with you, in all honestly, because calling you out as the dumbass you're acting won't make you learn any quicker.

But you *do* realize that no one here is jumping to your defense? No on here is correcting me? No one else is agreeing with you? Silence is deafening and maybe I'm the patron saint of lost causes like you - but shit, I will teach you how to form a cohesive and legit line of thought if its the last thing I do.

Well, see, theres nothing hard to understand about Star Trek either. TOS had a bunch of metaphorical stories - metaphors about racism, metaphors about the Vietnam war, metaphors about hard choices we all make. Thats not so hard to understand, is it? Good sci-fi - Star Trek at its best - is simply a morality play covered over with the gloss of special effects. Phasers and Klingons are just a new way of saying handguns and african americans.

There is nothing hard to understand about Star Trek. It's very accessable - the only thing thats hard to understand is why you continue this line of thought. Are you so adament at proving me wrong because you honestly believe you're right - or because you just don't want me to prove you wrong?

Coward's way out. Not to mention - you followed this statement with a paragraph. Way to leave the conversation.

Again - how does age quantify anything? I know very mature and very immature 23 year olds. Now, if you had told me arguing with me reminds you of arguing with someone we both know - like, I don't know, Lt Cmdr Data - you'd have a brazen point because we both know who that is.

Now that you're saying "you remind me of a 23 year old I know", we both know thats bullshit because not all 23 year olds are as well spoken as I have been in this thread - and that there are 23 year olds who are better spoken than I.

Well, simply put, you're frustrating. I'm making specific, quantifiable and I'd like to think somewhat astute observations on why you make no sense - and you continue to not make sense. "Give a man a fish..." and all that jazz. I really want someone to chime in and tell me where I'm wrong in this - someone other than Borg1982. Where did I go wrong in this thread? I don't think calling someone a shithead on the internet really counteracts against my writing paragraph after paragraph about how wrong you are in the first place.

This is the second time you've said that - and the second time you've gone on anyway. Make up your mind.

Because I refuse to understand you? Or because you refuse to make any sense? Your choice - but I don't think you'd like the correct answer.

If it's any consolation - I skipped a couple.

Sadly, I doubt that.

The funny thing is that he could actually make a cogent argument about how Star Trek deals with many more complex social issues that children are not likely able to fully comprehend than Star Wars does (or so I've heard), but doesn't quite pull it off.

Thats actually a valid statement because I certainly wouldn't understand any crazy alagory for the Vietnam War at a very young age. However, he completely circumvents that and says "NO U R WRNG" and leaves it at that.

I wouldn't be surprised if he comes back and points at your post as what he was meaning to say though. I don't buy that myself because it's not like your post is some incredibly complex thought process - you just happen to know how to present an idea with some meat to it.

#1 #2 Quote 1: Assumes something about Lehah.

Quote 2: Proves that Lehah is helping my point of view, and is therefore helping me affirm what I said on quote #1.

Thanks for helping!

I said "I'm done talking about it" the first time to tell you I'm done talking about Star Wars & Star Trek. I said "I'm done talking about it" the second time to tell you I'm done talking about your lack of credibility and other such stuff. Both times i said that were for DIFFERENT things.

This post proves I came back anyway. OMG! LeHah wins! He beat me in a "Borg will come back to this post" argument! My life is over!
The fact is, what you said before with all the attacks & irrelevant swearing got irritating, so I didn't want to fuel you anymore. But you did a better job at keeping cool just recently, so I came back. Good boy!

I was the one originally coming to someone elses defense. He just isn't coming back because he'd rather not get attacked by you. I couldn't give a shit what you say about me. It was sad to attack a 5 year old though. I also will choose whether or not to respond based upon how mature you choose to be in a reply. Your recent post dignified a response.

Finally, just by surfing for any script from any Star Trek show, seeing this:


Radiation bursts from the star's
surface are making precise sensor
readings difficult. It seems to
be exhibiting gravitational
instability.
Sir, I am detecting a
transmission... emanating from
within this system.
Indeterminate. I am attempting
to screen out sensor
interference...
Just studying the components in
your prosthesis.
We had to disguise it as something
innocuous.

...does not at all appeal to young children. I'm sure I watched plenty of TOS and TNG when I was little. I definitely did not care for when they used big words like this when I was very young. I'm sure I liked space battles, fights and easy to understand scenes more. But since Trek is a mix of both, I probably only liked parts of it. (Later it became my favorite series ever because I rewatched a lot and started to fully 100% understand it).

We aren't going to settle this argument through the internet. We cannot beg CNN to do a "young children Trek VS Wars report" poll. Why don't you go out and ask kids their opinion of both. But why should you? You already helped me! (see top of this post)!

You *almost* had something there. Almost. At least you're getting the idea of backing up what you're saying with other things.

However, in this case, you fail because you leave too much open. See, your quote is an assumption - which is basicly just you giving an opinion of me. Okay, thats fine - but then you use a quote of mine out of context when talking to someone else. Thats... not much of a leg to stand on.

But do you see what I did here? You posed something toward me - "Assumes Something About LeHah" - and I just said why it isn't. However, points for effort.

So then we have several problems here:

1.) You didn't discern what you were talking about, you just said "I'm done" several times. Well, done with what? I had thought the whole conversation, but you kept saying it.

2.) By now saying you're done with the topic - you just admited to threadjacking by saying you're done with the subject, but you'll keep posting anyway.

Thats a funny thing to say given that I give examples and explainations as to what I'm saying. You just assume people understand you when you leave things open ended - like when you said "I'm done" several times.

You didn't discern anything though. You didn't show us how it was different.

I think anyone who reads this thread will show that I wasn't really pining for that. I think calling you nigger balls or baby eating fucktard would be more of a lure than saying "Sadly, I doubt that".

But see - heres another thing. You piss and moan about how I insult you to high heaven - but when I *don't* and go out of my way to make a clear, logical and rather solid post about why you're not making sense, you piss and moan anyway by making fun of me.

Who? Where? Why is he so scared of people on the internet? Are you some kind of superhero? First you tell me you saved GFF and now you're telling me you're protecting someone.

I told my girlfriend if she didn't shut up, I'd rape her.

So whats your point?

Uh, thank you? Man, do you get a nose bleed from that high a horse?

I dunno. TRON is a pretty technical movie. I didn't know that TRON was the BASIC command for debugging. But I still enjoyed the movie when I was 5 or 6. Lights and motorcycles and crazy computer talk about programs and MASTER CONTROL and stuff. Its still fun - even now that it really doesn't make a lick of sense.

...you just undid your entire arguement.

90% of the above post has nothing to do with the main topic here. Honestly, who cares if I said "I'm done talking about it" and who cares about your analysis of how I said that and any inconsistencies thereof (all of which have nothing to do with the main topic). Shall we stop the analyzing of our name-calls against each other and other irrelevant things?

The other 10% of your post finally went to the main topic.

1. Do you understand what I meant by the "big words" argument that I made, and do you completely disagree with me as always?

2. Allow me to clarify (I didn't at all clarify). I was subjected to TOS & TNG when I was little. (It is the same to say I watched it; aka had my eyes on it). I have clear and vivid memories of being bored for most of it, and since I had no control over the TV, I just sat there and watched anyway. I picked television over being 100% bored. (Later in life, as I said, I loved Trek).

3. Don't you recall that Para is the one that started this idea of one being easier to understand than the other? Clearly, he's just gone now. Probably doesn't want to put up with name-calls. To me, it's just a message board topic. I'll choose what to reply to when I want.

4. He said it was understandable. He didn't say "Easy to understand things are always better to the majority no matter what". He understands it. You probably don't understand it. Are you irritated in the fact that more people voted Star Wars in this poll? I knew that would happen, myself.
Please pick apart what he said and tell me why its disagreeable to you.

EDIT ADD: http://enterprisevsties.ytmnd.com/ Proof that Trek > Wars!
:biggrin:

...But it does have to do with why you're making nonsense posts. See, how do you expect anyone especially me to take you seriously if you hem and haw about this? The fact that you have these reoccuring "inconsistencies" is one of the reasons we keep having these shitfests.

I don't see how my saying "Water is wet, shithead" invalidates the fact that water is indeed wet. (Although, if you are offended by "shithead" either you see yourself as a shithead before I even said it - or you're James Caan in Alien Nation)

I don't know about always. I don't think I've read EVERY post you've ever made. But a lot of the ones I do respond to are in the vein of you saying "NO UR RONG". And why? Because I like taking cheap shots sometimes.

Do not put it past me to treat you like you deserve to be treated. If you are going to act dumb, I'm going to treat you like you're acting dumb.

As for the "Big Words" part - the Star Wars prequels have big words. Whats the opening crawl to The Phantom Menace? The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute....

I don't know about you - but what kid cares about trade disputes? BORING. Why not read him a Tax Code book?

You're not allowed to backpeddle. If you're too stupid to see you stomped out your entire point, then there really may be no helping you. It's not a complicated thought that I plucked out of your post either - you'd been arguing that children wouldn't like Star Trek because of it's "big words" but then you outright said that you watched it as a kid.

No, sorry, thats an unforgiveable failure, even for you.

To coin a phrase "Give Para what is due to Para and give God what is due to God"

Don't go playing the hero card. It doesn't fly.

I understand it perfectly - he has an ego problem. He was saying "I like Star Trek more because it's harder to understand - thusly, I am more intelligent for liking it!" This is a similar problem with assholes who like Battlestar Galactica - neither show is "intelligent" per se. I don't see Picard and Riker exchanging blows over pre-Marxism ideals of the Russian monarchy.

Star Wars and Star Trek are equally "intelligent". Many people understand them and not all of those people are intelligent. To say one is smarter than the other is to have an ego problem.

Why would that mean anything? I have all the Star Wars movies in my room - but I also just bought the entire run of TNG two weeks ago. I like them both for their strengths, despite both their weaknesses.

(As an aside, YTMND was never funny)

If you think when I say "But Trek was mostly boring when I was little" is back peddling, then how can the argument continue? Do you not believe me when I say that? If you think I'm starting to lie, or something, to get my point across, then why talk anymore about that? Go out and start asking kids their opinion.

But why bring up kids into this? The fact is, just by watching Trek, you know you are watching something with levels of dialogue that are a few notches up compared to other stuff. Star Wars may have a few scenes of this, but not many.

3 hours of class and 2 of driving time... gotta go.

A wise statement - yet you posted again.

Explain what this means, exactly. You seem to say it a lot. The fact that I question you does not mean I'm calling you an outright liar. Perhaps I should've been more exacting but I don't believe you because I can't understand you becuase you seem to have no reasoning, no clear line of thought and no understanding of how to show deduction - A leads to B leads to C.

I cannot believe you if you don't make sense because, well, you don't make sense. I do not speak German, so if someone told me that "The sky is blue" in German - he would be correct, but how do I know that if I don't understand him?

You made the point of asking children. The proof of burden is on you. Notice how I didn't say "Three Out Of Four Doctors..." or "Fifty Percent Of..." because I cannot quantify that. Well, I could but that requires me to go out and bother strangers and doctors and they have better stuff to do.

I am not a spokesperson for a number of people - like you pigeonholed yourself as with the "ask the children" nonsense. You made that bed, you sleep in it.

WHAT

You are the one bringing kids into this. You started by citing your 5 year old cousin as a source and then a classroom of children.

That is YOUR doing. Do not blame me for your shitty inability to make a concise point, nor your inability to stick with it.

Star Trek may have a few scenes of mythos, but not many.

Star Trek may have a few scenes of starfighters, but not many.

Star Trek may have a few scenes of capital ship battles, but not many.

So... whats your point exactly?

OH SHIT GOTTA BAIL

Back from my school/drive...(and I see you paranoia-drivenly thought that I quit the thread or something? Weird).

I didn't mean "Don't bring up kids in this argument anymore, LeHah."
I meant: "What's the point? Why bring that up anymore? How about we retract that and talk about the core episodes vs. Star Wars movies."

Secondly, you say the burden of proof is on me, but there is no way that I can conduct studies with children and show you them in person. But I already know what I personally believe about the world. If you are seriously curious about what majority thinks, start to ask people.

But again, lets retract the childrens opinion crap and get down to the main point: The episode quotes that I pasted in previous messages show thaton average, Star Trek episodes are going to be more intellectual, solely because of dialogue - not specifically world issues like "Vietnam". Star Wars movies may have "intellectual" scenes, but the vast majority is easy to understand stuff.

Nothing is black & white. Nothing is 100%. But remember what the word average means.

Never was a fan of either. If I had to decide though I'd go with Star Wars.

You know, Star Trek TOS was defined as an age when men were men, women wore miniskirts, and shit blew up. Even though the science used in it was flimsy at best and horrid at worst, the science for the most part generally took a back seat to the plot and storylines of the show. Frankly, it was a good show.

Then along comes TNG, with it's man-skirts, a Federation that's become a bunch of peacenik appeasing morons who are willing to sell out the actual peace and security of the Federation for well, what they perceive to be peace and security, and a bald Frenchman with an almost religious belief in the "Prime Directive" which is basically a key word for "Moral Cowardice." It also gave the idiots at B&B the chance to introduce the "EPS," or Electro Plasma System into the show to the detriment of the Star Trek series. I can just imagen the conversation where this idea was introduced amonst the writers.

"HEY, I HAVE AN IDEA, INSTEAD OF USING REGULAR ELECTRICITY TO POWER THE CONSOLES, LET'S RUN SUPERHEATED FUCKING PLASMA THROUGH THEM INSTEAD, THAT WAY WE CAN INJURE AND KILL AS MANY CHARACTERS AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT HAVING TO ACTUALLY WRITE UP AN ACTUAL PLOT REASON FOR HAVING THEM BE INJURED OR DYING." Yeah... -_-

Then we get DS9, which is a Space based Soap Opera with about the same mentality as a regular soap opera, but with a lot more bullshit and bad plot devices trying to pass themselves off as "Science and creative writing," when the words bullshit and Technobabble is far more appropriate.

Then we get Voyager, which is the main reason that the people at B&B are referred to as Brainless&Brainless. What's worse, this series really did have a chance to be a good show, but instead, it stunk worse than a steaming pile of dog shit on a hot summer day. What's worse, it totally killed the notion of the borg as being a true threat and made them into something of a running plot joke time and time again. If you want bad writing, crappy acting, and even worse dialogue and technobabble, instead of substance and plot, then by god, Voyager is the show for you.


No, I acknowledge easily that Star Wars has a few bullshit technologies, but that comparison is nothing when compared to the scores of mistakes and flaws that Star Trek has. And no, the blame doesn't entirely lie on the series as much as it does with the writers at B&B. They are responsible for the death of Star Trek.

I love both. In fact, I have all Star Trek movies and all Star Wars movies.

TNG is my all time favorite TV series (season three being my favorite of the seven seasons) and the Star Wars OT (in unaltered form) is a timeless masterpiece of a trilogy that I can watch over and over again. I'll just say I love them both (when Star Trek is done right) rather than try to make a pointless comparison. However, if it's a movie to movie thing (which would be fairer than comparing a TV show to a motion picture), I'd give it to Star Wars for sure.

Fortunately that didn't last past the first season and was a rare sighting either way.

He violated it many times when he felt he had to. (The Drumhead) Otherwise they explain the principle of noninterference more than once, and they also bring up how it sometimes results in moral cowardice as well. (The High Ground)

Well, I think Star Trek generally went downhill (even if there are some good episodes you can pick out from later episodes and series) after Gene Roddenberry died (and also after Ron Jones stopped composing for episodes), so I won't comment on the stupid ideas of Berman and Braga. Berman feels the need to have a "science conflict" in every episode regardless of whether or not it fits with what the episode is about. And he was against the concept of the episode Darmok, which most would agree is one of the best TNG episodes, so he just sucks in my eyes.

Couldn't agree more.

I'm not sure what telling us you're away from your keyboard is suppose to do aside from paint you as an asshole. "Hey I can't respond because I'm doing something else" is pretty silly - we all go outside, we all have jobs or school. So whats the point in telling us "I can't respond because I'm doing something else"?

If you had said that as your second or even third post - I'd totally agree and let this whole thing slide. But as it is - I just think you're throwing down the towel and putting up the white flag because you painted yourself into a corner.

Here - I'm going to let you be the bigger man - don't respond to this post. Don't even reply to this thread. Make me look like the ass for once.

That was my point entirely. Don't use numbers or sweeping gestures without having anything to back them up with.

Yet you earlier spoke of "majority". Which is it, now? You conflict with yourself every time you post. Besides, what you think of the world doesn't mean a shit, shake, fuck or damn to me. I didn't ask you what you thought a bunch of imaginary people think - I asked you what you thought and you can't even give me anything worthwhile.

I didn't say "a full classroom of children" - YOU did. I can't give less of a shit about what a bunch of people think. A bunch of people like awful things. Many people like terrible things. Millions of people like millions of terrible things.

How do I quantify that? You and I both know people that eat spinach which is awful, many people care what Paris Hilton does with her terrible hair and there are millions of people who think they know tons about politics but treat the electoral college like it's some giant conspiracy by the Bush Administration.

You've still not made a good example of that. At all. Ever. On this entire page.

The "Vietnam" thing I was refering to was TOS, not Star Wars.

And would you listen to yourself? You're a snob. "I like this show because it is smart! That must mean I'm an intellectual!"

Stow it. You don't impress anyone here.

What the shit does that have to do with anything?

I think you got angry when this whole issue of me & para supposedly hopping on our "high horse". Allow me to clarify:

I don't like Trek because it is "smart". I like plenty of things that have not even one "intellectual" word in it.
I love Star Wars for many things that it does.
I love Star Trek for many things that it does.
I am entertained in different ways for each.
Star Trek is more intellectual. It's not a huge great deal harder to understand than Star Wars. Many people just prefer Star Wars. Trek definitely does not require only people who are gifted to watch. Star Wars just reaches a bigger audience. It appeals to many, many more. Huge demographic.

Actually both shows are probably intellectual in their own regard. Certainly both can stand as an intellectual read in paperback but none stands over the other as being harder to comprehend. Neither of these are philosophical inquiries nor are they educational material.

Both utilize the conception of thought, the imagination to fuel the human mind and that's is what I believe really matters in the end. Plus the comparison really depends on how extensive is the scope of comparison?

Are we comparing it in accoradance to all the levels of media (movies, tv series, animation, books, comics, etc.) or just the main things by which we know of both series?

Ohh
 

After a bunch of posts I kind of see Borg's point now... In Star Wars they *could* talk about stuff like... how does a lightsaber work, details on the Death Star beyond "a missile here and it blows up"... But they don't, as it wouldn't appeal to a younger audience that's more interested in the lightsaber fights and space battles.

In the game Knights of the Old Republic II, I saw how does a lightsaber work (kind of), it was nice to see a sort of explanation, but that explanation wasn't really necessary for the plot in the movies... even though Luke builds one between Ep. V and Ep. VI.

As Star Trek has some TV series, they must have a lot more time to explain this kind of things on the episodes.

It's not that Star Wars is not "intellectual", it's just they chose not to focus on that on the movies.

This is like telling me that telling me Intelligent Design has nothing to do with God.

But thats the point - Trek is *not* smart. Trek is enjoyable - but I don't think a show that deals with kids being put on trial for killing flowers, people that have their heritage in spiders or wishy-washy morality between episodes can be intelligent.

See - Trek is entertaining, yes. But it can't be smart. You want it to be smart, so you are seen as smart. You are neither. A sign of intelligence is the ability to argue one's points with conviction and evidence - you do neither as you argue like a child kicking and screaming in a toy store.

No it's not. And you've still have yet to prove that beyond a doubt.

You've not quantified that either.

If you're going to use the word, demographic - you need to back it up with a list or a poll or something. Don't just assume you're right - because I assume you suck dick on the weekends. Doesn't make me right, but it sure as shit seems a more likely candidate than anything you've said so far.

If you're reading Star Trek novels or Star Wars hardbound for it's "intellectual" reasons, you're going to end up one big dumbass.

As opposed to reading a book on art history or the ideas of Plato? Get the fuck out. Not even Borg1982 is trying to sell me that shit.

And because... who gives a shit?

I like Star Wars because it has lightsabers that WOOOM WOOOM.

I never really liked Babylon 5. To me, it was too much like Star Trek: Deep Space Nine... only more boring and with less impressive costumes/makeup/special effects.

Anyway, I like both Star Trek and Star Wars... Star Wars for its flair and Star Trek for being so utterly cerebral.

If Star Trek were cerebral - there would be nearly no one watching it

After seeing this conversation, I agree with LeHah. It was the foolish man who built his house upon sand. The fact of the matter is that both shows make up shit we've never heard of, so that whole smart idea goes out the window. I mean, who here knows about measuring a parsec on a kessel run or how warp coils are built on starships? Just enjoy the shows is the point of why their made in the first place.

If that's the case then I suppose Star Trek's been cerebral for many years now.

Making snide remarks towards a better statement just shows you have nothing to say.

Shut up and get the fuck out.

Thought I have not been posting here recently I have been watching it closely and this argument is more on LeHah’s side then anyone else’s. However Borg1982 what your saying is that a classroom which consists of what? Only 20 to 30 kids and your willing to say that they represent what every other kid on the world is thinking in that age group? I have watched star trek since I can remember and apparently before I can remember, I still watch it and have seen every episode to date and all of them are reruns but I still watch them all the same because I like them. I understand almost everything they say too when the go on techno babbling. It is hard for some to understand yes but that doesn’t take away from the rest dose it? And when they do give some crazy explanation on how to fix a problem they give examples that we would understand. My views on star wars is a little one sided, I’m not big on star wars I like the action in it, but I prefer star trek because they deal with situations that one might face daily not once in a hundred years kinda thing. And when I was five years old I loved star trek because it was fun and exciting, I didn’t understand a word they said back then but still enjoyed it all the same, So what? And Shonos is right the technology the had on OST was for the most part only Ideas and now most of it reality, though we don’t have transporters or holodecks we are still trying to develop them. One thing I have noticed in this entire conversation is that Kids are ones we are discussing liking one over the other. What about the teens and adults in the world? You’ll find that a lot of them will give very good answers as to why they like one over the other and not give an answer with just fun and excitement.
And Borg1982 when you said “I’m done fueling your mass immaturity maybe you should look at your own post and see who’s being more immature .

So you don’t like it because you cant comprehend it?

And I hope I never get on your bad side Lehah

Now that youre here Garret, I believe it would be a good time to close this thread and be done with the topic. Borg is unable to do anything except repeat banalities and we're almost completely off topic anyway

Agreed