Pregnant teen needs help! (The sequel)
 

For those of you who want the full story see the Pregnant teen needs help! thread.

Those who have read or posted on that thread will know what I am talking about.

In a nut-shell my cousin is pregnant again, the good news though is she left the jerk Chris. This child is due in January, and like her first baby, she is smoking this one too. She has her own place, but still has no job. She is living off of the government baby bonus. Chris does not come over to see his child and he cannot be made to pay child support because he too has no job and is living off of welfare.

Here is what I want advice about. While I understand that she will not be able to work full time until the second baby is born, she needs to start relying on herself a little more. She down right refuses to leave the town she is in (Trust me... there is zero opprotunity there) she says she does not want to leave her mom at all, she has to stay close to her. My cousin has just turned 20 and she is still pulling at the hem of her mother's dress as if she was 6.

I have tried explaing to her my experiences, I graduated from college and moved from home at age 19, it was hard at first, but I had to leave in order to get a job and life for myself, I am now 25 with my own house and getting married next year. I am not at all expecting her to do the same, but I think she should stop relying on her mom so much.

What do you all think? I am not really sure that to do about this situation.

I don't think there IS anything you can do. It seems you've done all you can besides offer her a place to live which would be a terrible idea. I think the best you can hope for is that at some point her mother will be telling her these things and she'll listen.

It sounds like that she is relying on her mom, especially now that she is having a second child. Being a single mother with one child is rough, but two of them is extremely difficult.

If you have talked to her about this, then you have done what you needed to do. This may sound harsh and I DO realize it IS family, but she IS an adult. She is also not a TEENager anymore (judging by your previous post and adding a year).

Unfortunately, the best thing to do is what you have done. You can't do anything more to change her mind. You can give advice, but that's why they call it advice, it can be followed or not followed.

I do not know of her and her family. Some families will help their children forever. Some stop at a certain point. It's different for each family. If it's the latter, then be ready to lend a shoulder for her to cry on, and an open ear when she needs to talk to someone. However, unless she is literally living on the street, don't lend her a room or space in your house (otherwise, you may run into the problem of her relying on you).

I think it's pretty harsh to say that she's clinging to her mother's hem. She's a single mom with two kids and no job, no prospects whatsoever from your post....of course she doesn't want to make even more changes! I can't imagine what her situation must feel like, and neither can you. So I think the only thing you can do is be there for her and listen, and not judge her. Offer practical help, show her where to get information. Help her become more self-reliant. But don't put her down, because that certainly won't help.

Also, there may be other reasons why she's still so close to her mom. Does her mom perhaps rely on her as well? All that we don't know.

You raise a very good pont Traveller87, however my aunt really wants her to move out and become more self reliant, my cousin is very difficult to live with, she won't pull her own weight around the house.

My cousin has always been the person that says "I am old enough to do what I want and you can't stop me" since she was 13. While this is true on many senses, our family always provided positive advice to her, yet she contiuned to reject it and dig herself deeper into the hole she is in now. I guess there is really not much I can do but leave it up to her. I still continue to talk to her once in a while, but I feel that I am all out of advice that I can give her.

Unfortunately, there comes a point where you just have to let go and let the person potentially hit rock bottom. Hopefully, given the situation, she won't go to that point, but sometimes that's what it really takes to get someone to turn things around.

As anyone would guess, my take on this is get God in on the action with prayer.
All of your actions were good ones yet you are merely human. Plus she doesnt need you like the rest of her support system.
Even if you have given Him a chance before and things didnt work the way you wanted try again.

I think my cousin needs to act more then pray. I haven't gotten along with the Christan god very well, which is why I am a pagan.

Prayer doesn't help in personal responsibility. Prayer doesn't make a person more mature, more responsible, and less needy.

You've done what you can, Chibi. I know it must be painful to watch her go through this and not learn her lesson the first time around.

The more people around her enable her, the less she will learn. I doubt you personally enable her, but the people around her (her mother?) sound like they are torn between helping her and cutting her off.

The only way I think she'll learn is if she gets a little tough love from your family. If she is old enough to pop out a few kids, she's old enough to start relying on herself.

No, no, no. I think you misunderstood the thread maker's request. She's looking for real answers. Not ones that aren't going to help her at all.

Unfortunately, cutting somebody off is always problematic when they're your own daughter (which is why I think her mother's reaction is understandable), and even more so when there are children involved. It's a common cliché that letting a person hit rock bottom will eventually make things better, when in fact, it may just lead to them getting stuck there.

I agree that you've done a lot for her, and that SHE eventually needs to take care of her own life - it's not your responsibility to do that for her. But I'd still keep an eye out for her for the sake of the kids, although I'm convinced you were going to do that, anyway.

Whatever happens, though, it's not your responsibility. She needs to find her own way. And maybe her family's way and their advice wasn't right for her, who knows? If her mother wants her to move out, she should talk to her about it, and tighten up the rules/conditions for her. She needs to get her expectations across ("if you're going to live here, I want you to a) do XYZ around the house, b) ..."), and make it clear that this is a sort of contract. If your cousin is supposed to grow up, she needs to be treated like an adult. And if she thinks she can do whatever she wants, then perhaps she needs to realise that she also has to carry the consequences, and that other people won't always take care of these things for her.

People grow with the challenges they face, but only with the right kind of support. And that's often difficult to give. Once again, it is her own responsibility to get her life together, and only she knows what she wants, but it does help to be supported through this process of gaining independence. So what I would do is probably to ask her what she wants from life (what kind of job, etc.), and how she thinks she can achieve that. Then perhaps give her some job websites and phone numbers of support services, where she can get professional advice....and the rest is up to her. You can't take that step for her.

I don't agree with this assessment 100%. But it usually works for people who are accepting handouts when they have their own capabilities.

And what would the consequences be, exactly, if the cousin doesn't follow the rules of the house? Whats the worst the mother can do? Ground her?

I agree that some rules should be laid down, but that's not "being treated like an adult." That's being treated like a teenager.

I think with some time, the girl will do a little growing up and will find her own strength - especially if she has to.

You're looking through rose-colored glasses, I think.

Maybe it's because I've read the previous thread about the girl (I'm glad you followed up, Chibi~) and I know that she's a stubborn little cookie who thinks she's got all the answers, but yet can't seem to figure anything out.

You can give only so much help in these circumstances. I have a feeling the girl will walk all over whomsoever gives her help. Give her an inch, she'll take a mile.

The mother could kick her out, for example. Rules exist for adults as welll, it has nothing to do with treating her like a teenager. Our whole society is based on these rules. It's not like she's going to say "you have to be home by 12", but rather that she's establishing a contract with her - the terms and conditions for her to live there, and how she's going to contribute. If it doesn't work out, the mother will have to be rigorous and actually kick her out, and that's probably what I see as the biggest problem, because it doesn't sound like that's likely to happen.

And to me, the cousin sounds very disoriented and unsure what she wants/can get. Her stubbornness is mainly self-protection, and it is striking that she always made her whole moves dependent on the guys she was with. That's why I suggested helping her in terms of practical advice and listening to what SHE wants, to her own ideas and plans. Of course there have to be boundaries to this as well, and things she has to do on her own, but as a starting point, it sounds like support would do her some good. Don't forget about the children.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._box_durex.jpg
Buy her several boxes.

Ha ha! Actually I have been iching to ask her why they did not use condoms. I heard that she was on the pill but I am not sure if it was true. This is her second child with this jerk, and it is his third, he was not happy when she told him that she was pregnant both times.

If he really did not want more kids, why didn't he use comdoms. Guess they where both absent minded.

This is where some cold, "tough love" as Sass explained, comes in handy. I have some very harsh, cold, truthful words I'd like to say to this girl, but again, she's not my cousin, so I'll leave it at that.

I'm glad you followed up on this Chibi. Looks like, as many have already agreed, that you've done what you can. You can't make anyone come to their senses but it's possible you can guide them to that point. Unfortunately, it takes quite a bit to get some motivation up.

(In my honest opinion though, this is what happens when teenagers are not slapped once in a while and put straight in their early years...but that's a different topic altogether.)

Okay, look. I don't know how old you are nor how much life experience you have or anything, but in MY house, where I live and pay for, I do what I think is right and wrong.

I set my own rules and I live by them, come hell or high water. Why? Because I am an adult. I know the difference between right and wrong, cleanliness and squalor, screw with or without a condom, so on and so forth.

I am responsible for myself. Something that this girl should try being. Instead, she is asking that other people be responsible for her actions - which is not very mature of her. I would understand if she was younger or whatever, but seriously.

My point is this: when living at home with your parents, even if to get yourself back on your feet, you really shouldn't NEED to have the rules laid out for you. Out of respect for your parents and gratitude for their letting you stay awhile, you should be on your BEST BEHAVIOR, consideration-wise.

To do otherwise is childish.

Contracting with your fuck-up daughter isn't a great idea, considering she hasn't quite got a great track record.

Of course, that's my opinion. Until she showed evidence that she wants to contribute or contract, the girl is out.

I don't want to come across as some black-hearted, callous person here. I understand people make mistakes, and I understand that sometimes they need help with correcting the mistakes that they've made in their lives. God knows I've been there.

But when you repeatedly make the same mistakes and show no remorse or intention of fixing the problem why should anything be given?

Enabling is a dangerous thing - I've seen it from the levels of rich kids who can't hold a job to addicts. Sometimes, you've got to get tough to get your point across.

If you can't live up to the ultimate consequence, maybe you shouldn't put yourself in a position where you'd have to consider it to begin with.

Why do you think this has anything to do with life direction and confusion over where she wants to go in life? (ie: what she "wants")

The girl is a stubborn, naive little thing who thinks she has all the answers. She's going on Baby #2, living off welfare, and tugging at the hems of her mother's skirt for help.

If she wants protection, she could start using birth control, stop moving in with any Joe Schmoe (see previous thread about this particular girl), and listening to the advice of her family and/or friends who love her and want to see the best come to her and her children.

The girl can't get her man to wear a fucking rubber. What makes you think she can plan her own life out right now??

I don't understand why you think she should explore her life desires right now. Girl needs to clean up, get a job, and support her two babies.

She should have thought about her life plans BEFORE she screwed some asshole and popped a few out. She's made her choice, and now, she has to live with it.

"Don't forget about the children." Yea, that's the entire point of my post: the mother has to make some goddamn sacrifices now. It's not time to think about college, to think about what she wants to be now that she's grown up, or whatever.

It's time to put her nose to the grindstone, bust some ass working as a waitress or something making money to feed her babies, and get the fuck off welfare.

Alright then. I'm just keeping in mind my own situation into comparison with this particular situation and here's my insight on it. My apologies if anything may seem offensive. I don't mean to be.



I have a child of my own. The mother was 20 when she had him. We too live in an area where there's no oppertunities for good work and even now things are difficult. I try my damndest to do absolutely everything in my power to make sure my son has everything he needs and will need.


Like your situation, the mother refuses to move to a larger area and feels she needs to be close to her family. I can understand that to a degree.

The difference though is we planned our son's birth. We wanted to settle down and start our own family. We wanted to set things for our own independance... which your cousin will need to do or it'll bite her in the ass later. It'll be extremely difficult but she made the decisions. She may be by herself raising her children but she has people around her for advice. If she didn't want the responsibility, she shouldn't have fucked him without some protection.

However, in your situation there isn't much you can do. Everyone will do what they do. You can make suggestions and opinions but that won't make anything happen. She'll just have to learn things the hard way and deal. In my opinion I do think that she should be more dependant and not so reliant. It'll be difficult and an extreme pain in the ass but in the end things will work out.

I'm 20 as well, like this girl, and I live on my own in a foreign country, go to uni and finance it through orphan's pension and three part-time jobs. Not that any of this is really relevant to the point.

I don't disagree with any of this. Of course this is the way things should be. Unfortunately, it's just not the way things are in many cases. She shouldn't need rules, she should be mature enough to know what she's doing, she should know and do so many things...but she doesn't. And the objective is to get her to a point where she can take care of herself, and starts taking responsibility.

That isn't logical, though. You can't not make any demands, and then kick her out without a warning. I'd really make that contract with her, and if she doesn't abide by it (and it doesn't look like she will), that's where your tough love comes in.

I just don't think that kicking her out straight away, dumping her on the street with a baby and another on the way is the best idea. I agree that maybe she needs to feel this, she needs to experience this in order for something to click in her mind - but the danger really is that she won't know how to help herself, and that could get dangerous for the kids.

Her lack of direction has everything to do with it. Do you really think she got pregnant a second time by accident? She took a chance, and she knew what she was doing. Perhaps this gave her the sense of a social role (which she doesn't seem to be fulfilling adequately), maybe it was a way of keeping the guy, maybe she wanted a family...who knows, I can't read her mind. But from the way she sounds, it does make sense for her to get pregnant so young, twice, because it provides her with a role.

In any case, I didn't mean "what she wants" as in "I want to go to college now and be a doctor, and then earn millions and buy a house with a swimming pool". Of course her situation has to be considered. It's a matter of combining what she wants with what she can realistically achieve, and what her family needs. With her mother threatening to kick her out, what she wants right now should be a job, and quickly - any job. And figure out a way to earn money, and what to do with her children while she does so - which really isn't easy. These are two big things that she has to worry about right now. But she needs to know what she's doing. She needs to have some sort of plan in her mind, some sort of goal - which, right now, should be to keep her kids and herself materially all right.

That's why I think having that talk with her is still important. It's not about always telling her what to do (from the way she sounds, that really doesn't help - and if you get too judgemental, people tend to just shut down), but making her realise for herself what she needs to do. It's not easy, but it's possible if you ask her directive questions. Having that talk with her with some practical planning involved (e.g. where to find a job in that bad area, or where to go to find a job) might help. Then again, it might not, but that's all you can do at this point. It means that you at least gave it your best shot to help. It's all you can do.

Actually both kids where accidents, while she still loves her current child as well as the second one when it arrives, she clearly did not know what she was doing, she said she was willing to deal with her current child, but she admitted it herself that she did not want to get pregnant again and said "I guess I will have to deal with it when the time comes"

Not using the pill or getting her boyfriend to use condoms was the really dumb part, he is either really good in bed, or she just never said no when he wanted it. I am not sure I really want to know at this point cuz neither made any responsible decisions in the first place.

She is an anchor. Cut her away before she sucks you in further.

Seriously - I know you love your cousin but she's going to act like a willful child giving birth over and over because she's too weak to take control of other parts of her life. She can't see past her own long-term tantrum to how her choices are affecting her future, and the futures of innocent people. There is nothing you can say nor do to alleviate that.

Look. I understand accidentally getting pregnant. Sometimes protection doesn't work. It happens. Once.

This is the first piece of advice she needs to heed: put down the dick.

I do not know what your family view is on this.. But have you ever thought about giving the kid up for adoption? The first one is probably too old.. but it really sounds like she is not in a position (nor will be any time soon) to give either kid a proper home.

Then again, some may view that as the cowardice way out, but I am thinking more about the kid.

Define "proper home". If she gives it up for adoption, it will change everything, for her and the older sibling, as well as the guy and the rest of her family. But I agree, she needs to give all of this serious thought and draw the necessary consequences. Because if the kids are suffering (doesn't sound like they are as long as her mum is there to "fix things" for her), somebody needs to alert social services. Like someone said in the first thread, it may just be what she needs to wake her up. Also, aren't there any parenting classes or any other support groups for young mothers in your area?

This is something I never understood. Parenting classes? What is this hippie new age bullshit.

At the same time, I imagine these "parenting classes" cost money. Who's going to pay for that?

Don't get me wrong, I am not one of those "Every family should have a Mother, Father, 2 Door Garage home with strong religion based " individuals whom believes anything outside of that should result in the child(s) being taken away. I was more concerned about the mothers' lack of maturity and inability to support the kids financially and possibly emotionally. I was raised by a single mother, I know it's a tough job.

You, me, but not Brady. He's a libertarian.

In the Fourth Valley Area, which is where I live at the moment, there are both support groups for single parents, as well as classes in primary care for babies. These are free of charge, and partly run by the NHS. And no, that's not because Stirling is such a posh, rich place - it has high unemployment rates and the highest suicide rate in Scotland. So don't give me any of that hippie talk.

She should have got an abortion as soon as she found out she was pregnant. Now, her only options are:

1.) Have the baby and put it up for adoption.

2.) Have a late-term abortion (NOT recommended considering the child is probably already somewhat developed and that would just be sick)

3.) Try and raise the child while being unemployed.


I think 1 is her best bet.

"Hippie talk?" Yea, no, see I was accusing you of the hippie talk. You're the one acting like a dirty hippie in the thread.

I say "Bitch is dumb. She needs a swift kick to the ass."

And you follow up with "Holy hell Sass, how dare you be so awful to imply that this girl isn't capable of taking care of herself!"

I am sitting here, dumbfounded by you.

At the same time, if we're going to start talking about parenting classes, you've just got to know how stupid that shit is. "Here is how you keep baby warm. Here is how you feed baby. Please do not let baby sit in squalor or put nasty things in it's mouth!"

People have been rearing children for centuries without "parenting classes." Why do you think some dumb broad should need them now?

The underlying point is the bitch is stupid, selfish, and not of a mental capacity to be popping out kids.

No one can take away her RIGHT to have kids, though. So I guess the family is just going to have to shut up and put up if they don't feel like doling out a little tough love.

Have fun with that free babysitting, Chibi!

Yes, I did understand that. I just didn't think it was justified.

Then you misunderstood me. My reply was actually more along the lines of "how is pointing out that she isn't taking care of herself and her kids very well bringing Chibi any closer to a solution?" It's pretty obvious that she keeps making mistakes, that she's stubborn and keeps screwing things up even more for herself and her kids. But it's also obvious that Chibi cares about her. So shouldn't the point be to find out to what extent something can be done, rather than just saying "forget that bitch"?

How convenient it must be to divide the world simply into good parents and bad parents - you can just stop interacting with anyone who makes a mistake! Good thing you're free of them.

You'd be amazed how many people could do with even that bit of "stupid" advice. Just go to any local fast food place and watch some of the parents with their babies. A girl who uses a pizza box as a litter box for her cat sounds like she could use it.

People have been rearing children for centuries without them, but they also had 10 of them and lost many of them before they even reached the age of 5. So it's all good, I guess, let's go back to the good old days and have higher child mortality rates, nothing wrong with that.

What are you going to do, twist the girl's arm? At that point, you're not doing it so much for her, but yourself.

This girl has been handed help on all levels. I think you ought to check out Chibi's previous thread about this particular cousin.

You can lead a horse to water, as they say.

At what point are you going to just let the girl be responsible for herself? How ELSE do you think she'll learn at this point??

O. That's right. CLASSES!

Believe me - I've seen my fair share of the mediocre parents.

But in this case, the girl is 20 years old. At what point do you think it's fair to cut the umbilical cord and let the girl learn on her own? Did you read the previous thread?

Chibi's family isn't guilty of not helping the girl, to be sure. They've done as much as they physically, mentally, and legally can, with the exception of calling CPS and trying to seize the children. (Which isn't warranted, based on what Chibi has told us, I guess. Up for debate.)

For Chibi's family (which likely has it's own problems, as families often do), why should they spoon feed a 20 year old who is just plain out TOO DUMB and TOO LAZY to do anything for herself??

Do you think I don't live in a reality?

Chibi's cousin isn't feeding her kids scraps from a dumpster, here. (Well, she could be. In which case, HA HA, CALL CPS) In fact, I'm tempted to say the girl is too LAZY to go dumpster diving. She'd probably ask her mother to do it for her.

Chibi's cousin seems not to need "parenting classes" for the mentally deficient, but a good dose of reality. She doesn't seem to be mentally handicapped in a clinical sense - just handicapped by her own laziness and sheer stubbornness to accept the consequences of having a goddamn child.

I'd say that has more to do with the condition of living and health care compared to the past.

"O. You're kid died of dysentery" doesn't exist too much anymore - not because of BETTER PARENTS necessarily, but thanks to medical breakthroughs. (LIKE BIRTH CONTROL.)

But let's pretend parenting classes are the entire cause for decreased infant mortality rates!

They certainly weren't, but what does the mere existence of children for centuries tell us about parenting in relation to our expectations of it? Not much.

You've got a point, Sass, the girl needs to start taking responsibility for her kids and herself, and not leave it up to others. I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THAT (and yes, I have read the previous thread, hence the pizza box comment). So the conditions need to be toughened for her. I just don't think kicking her out on the street will do the children or her much good. Neither will walking up to her and saying "you're a lazy, dependent bitch" - that is NOT constructive criticism, it only makes people shut down.

I don't pretend to have a solution that will change everything, all I can say is that my next try would probably be a mixture of helping her to help herself (by pointing her in the right direction - job websites, advice centres, etc.), while at the same time putting more pressure on her (by telling her she either has to start working harder, or she'll have to move out and figure things out herself) . Positive reinforcement tends to work a lot better than punishment (and yes, I do realise that she's a woman, not a puppy). Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but it's pretty much all that's left for Chibi's family to do, because it sounds like they have tried everything.

No, I agree. Screaming matches don't result in much besides hurt feelings and resentment.

I'm not sure why you think this would help. I mean, her family (who presumably reared her) is giving her solid advice, and some additional bonuses.

I don't know what it's like over the pond, but I can guess this chick isn't educated and she's already got two babies. She should suck it up, work at McDonalds for a few months, and get some money saved.

I wouldn't right-out kick her out of the house necessarily. But what's Mom going to do? Sit at home (possibly quitting her job) to ensure her daughter attends work every day while she watches the kids?

How far is too far.

What do you think the chances are of getting this thread retitled to: Pregnant Teen II: Electric Boogaloo?

I just think that would make the whole thing, you know, less heavy of a subject.

This entire story sounds like a Britney Spears sensationalism headline, where the whole point it to laugh and dismiss the lowest man on the totem pole.

What I see in that story is a girl who has messed her life up to a point of no return. I haven't read the entire thing, but it looks like it's a downhill roller coaster that hopefully doesn't end in an explosion. While I agree that you would want to help her, there is really no helping some people. I think Sass' treatment is right on the mark; some people just need a good wake up call. Then we can be nice and Traveler-esque, when she actually has an ear open and a mirror to her pathetic existance.

Well, I'm just hoping that she herself doesn't think her life is pathetic and damaged to the point of no return, because it's not. And once you don't see the point anymore, you're not going to work hard to improve things, because everything's hopeless, anyway She hasn't got a job, granted, and probably not much of an education, either. But that doesn't mean her life is ruined. She might actually come to appreciate her children at one point, if she had some sort of direction in life. For npw,her options are restricted, she has to be grateful if she gets any kind of job, and has to figure out what to do with her kids while she goes to work, which isn't easy, either.

Sass, I wasn't suggesting that mum does everything for her and sends her to work each day. The point is that the girl is supposed to reach a state where she can take care of herself, not to patronise her entirely. I don't know what kind of advice her family have given her. I'm sure they have done their best, and it sounds like they have been incredibly supportive. The thing is that any "do this"/"do that" advice usually doesn't work that well, because people need to feel that they are in control. "You have to make a decision, here are some options" may work better. THen again, it may not, but at least it's a new approach. It can't hurt to try it. Although she definitely may be past that point, and she may be stubborn and not respond to it. In this case, there's nothing else you can do, but at least you've ensured that she knows some options if you have to distance yourself from her.

Is not seeing a point in moving forward any worse than what she's at now? She needs a reboot before you can install any new software on that computer (which would be beingamom101.exe). What I'm saying is that before we try to be compassionate, you need to make sure that it's worth bothering, and open her ear.

You need to give her a chance to see how low she is now so she can lift herself higher. The first step is admitting you have a problem.

I agree. But where does listening to her come into the equation for you?

Just thought I let everyone know that she had her baby and it's another girl, she was 7 pounds and my cousin had her just a half-hour after arriving at the hospital.

Right now my cousin is living with her mom which is understandable seeing that she has a newborn and a 1 year old, she is gonna need some help, but I am willing to bet that it's gonna be years before she decides to move again.

I am not sure if the father was there at the hospital, I forgot to ask, it's not really my business anyway what he does although I would be dissapointed if he did not show up.