Gang raped by 7 men? That's 200 lashes
 

tl:dr version - A 19-year old married woman and and an unrelated man were kidnapped, and the woman was gangraped by 7 guys. She went to the Saudi Arabia media about it, and was originally sentenced to 90 lashes, but it was recently INCREASED to 200 lashes with an additional 6 months in prison!

I don't care what people say, those people are a bunch of sick, primitive fucks. That is just abhorrent.

Hahah. That's what happens to people who get too tied up with their religion or what they believe in.*

*Statement applies to any person or group of people committing irrational acts that may cause harm to others or themselves while justifying said act to be morally correct.

I wonder how many lashes will be given to someone who's gangraped by eight men! Or more! OH U SILLY ARABS!

The sad thing is I'm not even surprised anymore by that kind of shit.

http://www.raborak.com/galerie/album..._fuck_yeah.jpg

Idiots wouln't know proper sprital lifestyle if it bit them on the nose.

Ok.

Alright. Please tell me that I'm mis-reading this part. Am I correct in thinking that she was fine with this sentence? That she was alright with the jail-time and the lashes?

Jesus FUCKING Christ.

I support Saudi Arabia because the United States supports them!


(land of the hypocrites)

She was alright with only a 6-month prison sentence? Shit.

I was gang-raped by seven men but all I got was an STD. =(

That should teach her to be more reserved in the future.

Raped? Pssh. She liked it.

You meant to say Allah FUCKING Mohammed, right?

I'm just glad that the legal system was able to straighten this whole mess out. Imaging how traumatic it must of been for those seven men to have to sit in court with that filthy woman.

Serious -- Okay well thats kinda strange. You get raped and the rapee gets the sentence instead of the rapers.

Not Serious -- maybe she'll ask for the lashes on her ass or some kinky shit like that.


But seriously...this is straight up bizzare...not any more than in utah with a guy forcing a girl and her cousin to marry then have sex or a 12 year old stabbing his 13 year old brother cause they wanted to watch different shows. But this is STILL bizzare!

Wrong culture and religion, nigga. Try again.

Islam had a late start.

Give them a few centuries and they'll be all caught up with Christianity.

Yes and then give Christianity a few million years and then it will be caught up with Atheism.

Like Niki, this really isn't surprising to hear for me. This kind of stuff happens all the time in the Saudi region. It's sickening but expected. I really hope things get a bit better there for women.

Can we not make this another atheism debate, thanks.

You're the one throwing (dumb) controversy in there. =/

Niki said it all. It's not even a surprise to me anymore. I read the title was my first thought was that this is probably a middle eastern related issue. I know it's seems horrible that that's my first thought but I haven't been wrong yet. Such a shame, as if the rape wasn't punishment enough.

You say that like there was no controversy to begin with. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...ons/emot-3.gif

I will controverse your face. :mad:

Before Muhammad the Arabs were just a bunch of misogynistic, tribalist, and myopic sand farmers. After Muhammad they are pretty much the same, only they tried to force the rest of the world to accept their myopic world view.

The arab peninsula hasn't changed ideologically in over a thousand years, and they wouldn't have anything resembling a modern economy without oil.

Seems the OP forgot to mention that the rapists also got lashes and prison time.

No, that doesn't mean the court order isn't fucked up, as what happened almost goes to define what "fucked" up is, simply wanted to add that info for a more "ballanced discussion" ;p

I think it is akin to how, in trials in the US, the defendant uses legal means to protest his sentence but is "okay" with whatever the judge finally hands down.

Put more simply, if the punishment for speaking to the biased towards Saudi media about the case had her punishment increased two-fold, then can you imagine what sort of punishment she would receive for telling the judges that she wasn't fine with her sentence?

Anyway Devo's right. It's not Islam doing this any more than it's Christianity that perpetuates fucked up Russian laws or rulings. It's a fucked-up society and a government that's corrupt to the core.

Shut up.

The article mentioned their jail time was increased but didn't say anything about lashes.

Lashes are tough, they usually have to dole them out at most 40 a day, because you run the risk of killing your prisoner if you do more.

The sentence passed is according to the Islamic law, Shari'a. This law stems from interpretations of the Qur'an itself and the sayings of Mohammad.
Society may be fucked but the law enforced indicates the source of that is Islam.

There's a law in Sharia that says that thou shalt not talk to the media, for if thou does, thou shalt have twice as much punishment rained down on thee from the heavens and thou's bloodline will be impure for three generations hence?

Islam is thorough, nigga.

On an unrelated note:

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7...shoteb9.th.png

Gotta love that Google :tpg:

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it made it sound as though she was being punished because she talked to the media about the case. Isn't there some similar law in the US... what happens in the court room stays in the court room until the trial's end?

Its also 3 in the morning and I didn't absorb the end, but that's what it sounds like to me. Dont get me wrong... either way... thats fucked up.

How come I never get ads as awesome as that? :tpg:

For pointing out a fact that made the article look more fucked than it was?

Cheers ¬_¬

Oh right, the rapists were brought to justice, that makes the victim being whipped by her government not so bad.

Seeing you guys froth is almost as laughable as this farce of a case.

Maybe we'll get some worthwhile discussion if we imagine how Phoenix Wright would have handled it.

"OBJECTI---"

"Fuck you, that's 100 lashes"

"shit"

Did I say that it's fair? No

I said that the CNN article makes it look like the rapists got away free from any punishment what so ever, making us view their "justice" system to be so fucked up that it's pretty much advertising itself to the worlds rapists to come and live there, and it just more propaganda against the Islam state. Don't get me wrong, I think such religions where such irrational things are spouted as the way to God's salvation are fucking stupid (pretty much all religions out there), but it doesn't mean such blatant and stupid propaganda should be allowed to pass around without being questioned.

Whether or not the rapists have actually been punished is immaterial to the case at hand. Don't be a retard. The issue involves a woman who was raped being beaten by her government for it.

I would argue "Woman raped, sentenced to 200 lashes for her trouble" is pretty much doing the work of an actual propaganda machine.

Fun facts about the Saudi legal system!

• Saudi Arabia has a truly independent judiciary, and highly trained lawyers. Yay!
• In theory, the Koran is the "Saudi Constitution" and Islamic sharia the law
• In practice, ~700 Wahhabi clerics/scholars, who are chosen by the other clerics, define what sharia is and how to apply it. (Wahhabism's stricter than Shia/Sunnism, I think). Plus, there are a few patchwork royal-decreed laws
• You get a lenient sentence for rape or wife-beating, but beheaded for witchcraft
• Years ago some laws were added, like "you must keep court records" and "defendants need lawyers." But change is slow. And if you've got a lawyer, the cleric can just throw them out for contempt of court if they like
• A change that's on the books will add a new 10-man supreme court of royal appointees (perhaps not all clerics?). Also, courts will specialize in criminal, commercial, or labour/family issues, instead of doing it all
• The laws will not be codified (written down, so you know what to expect) under the new change. Not happening.
• Attempts are being made to grant women citizen's cards, and people are pushing for the right to drive, but in court many women are only identified by their "male guardian" and their testimony's half the weigh of a man's

I thought this was kinda funny:

http://i1.tinypic.com/7yianvp.jpg

No it doesn't, because that's not why she was punished. The original sentence was for being in the company of a male she was unrelated to. Such a fact isn't really made clear in that article. Chiribo is right; the facts are taking a back seat to CNNs Islam bashing.

How does being punished for being in the company of a male make it better?

You're saying a law against woman being in the company of an unrelated male is as reprehensible as a law prescribing punishments for victims of rape?

Absolutely. Are you telling me that either should be remotely acceptable?

Where did I say that? You're honestly telling me you couldn't rank one of those scenarios as being worse than the other?

They simply have some fucked up laws about not being alone in the company of a man that is not related by blood / matrimony.

Is it stupid (one could say that's putting it lightly) by western standards? Yes.
Will us sneering at them make a difference? Well, are the twin towers still standing?

And blind acceptance will fix the problem?

Female circumcision! See? I can make rash emotional references too!

I'm getting off this little circle jerk now, because I refuse to make this a political discussion when it should be a legal one. But Chiri, I'm a working anthropologist, I understand ethnocentrism, but I also understand the concept of human rights and basic decency.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/4518/89708496ov2.jpg

Seems to be a trend in these advertisements...

Before she was kidnapped, she met with a man in his car. That's the crime. The man was kidnapped too.

Because Islamic law, Shari'a, is specified in the Koran, the book of Islam? Read How Unfortunate's post again.

Someone points out you had the facts wrong, but you steadfastly stick to your guns and proclaim 'We don't care for your facts! The facts change nothing!'. You know how annoying that is, when my main reason for posting was just to make sure everyone had the correct story?

Anyway

"How is that any less backward". Well let me have a go at this. The woman knows the law and she can play by the rules. She doesn't. She knows she's breaking the law, she does it anyway. She's punished for it. Yeah, they're backward rules but 'sup Islam. Scenario 2. The woman is kidnapped and raped, she has no power or self-determination over what happens to her. She's punished for it.

Neither you nor Denicalis can see one is quite clearly worse than the other?

And you can't understand that an article written to make it seem like B happened, when it was actually A that happened, is many times more incendiary and provactive to people like you who need any excuse to get up and posture on a soapbox? It is irresponsible journalism, and the second reason I posted.

Deni, I am not at all saying we should blindly accept it, as apathetic to such things as I am, I do recognise how vile a treatment it is towards a woman. My initial statement was simply to point out the lack of all the facts in the OP's quoted article.

You must admit, there are examples of woman lacking rights in Islamic countries, that are graver and more shocking than some other examples.

Would the original poster have angered just as many people into viewing/posting if the title of this thread had been 'Woman not allowed driving licenses in Saudi Arabia'? I personally think the reaction would have been somewhat more muted.

Regardless of the amount of vitriol, I can't imagine any of you actually give two shits about the women of Saudi Arabia.

After all they're all terrorists, right

God says we should love everyone, even those of terrorist descent.

I don't feel so remorseful for the woman.

First of all, she was meeting with a dude and probably didn't tell her husband about it. She probably didn't want him to know. That's kinda messed up.
Second, that's against the law. Bitch, whine, and moan about their laws all you want, she still broke the law and she knew she was doing it.
Third, she was being blackmailed for something, as stated in the article. So she probably has a history of doing shit she knows she shouldn't be doing.
Fourth, if there had been a man with her (one that was actually looking out for her), there might have been a slim chance the whole kidnapping and rape thing might not have happened.

Legal or not, what she did would be the equivalent of me heading into the hood to buy some drugs, then getting my ass beat to near death by a gang of dirty niggers on my way back home.

You put yourself in places you shouldn't be, shit might just go wrong.

Which is exactly the problem with that religion. Like with many others, any dishonest person can pick what he wants and make it sound how he intends to with minor twisting here and there. The main difference with Islam, are that those people can defend their stances with stuff like the Taqiyya, which basically allows you to lie as long as it is for the good of Islam, and quotes like this:

"When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them know not"

When people say Islam is a religion of conquest, it is indeed reducing. But it is true that the fact it developed in a martial environment left many open holes for abusing it. And when man can abuse, he rarely abstains. ~_~

So is this whole ordeal proof that God doesn't exist?

Yes. lmao

I dunno, misogyny aside and applicable in all cases, there is a distinguishable shock difference over whipcracks caused by more arbitrary persecution laws and further abuse to someone victimized. Don't really need me to say they're both horrific, cuz, yea. In fact, I'd worry a bit more of the condition of a person that doesn't get hit in the gut a bit more at one than the other and instead seemingly equates them.

Actually, both happened.

The woman broke a law (oshi) that has an irrational punishment attached to it (oshi). However she was kidnapped and raped, and there is nothing in the article that says she was going to the hood or wearing her burqua in a sexy way to provoke such an attack. Saudi Arabia is many things, but it isn't Baghdad - being found outside of your compound isn't asking to be kidnapped.

So you have a situation where a woman was breaking a law that is difficult to enforce, and during that she was victimized in a horrific manner. In order to see her rapists brought to justice she went public with her own transgressions - a brave act. The problem is not only that the punishment is harsh for something that is minor - and difficult to enforce - but also that she was given a punishment that much more severe for talking about how crappy her judgement is.

I mean, it's all there in the article. I can only assume you're unable to read. Ask your mom and dad to read articles for you next time - that saves you precious time and effort you can then put into savings, which means you never feel anchored to a unique thought and you can feel like a free man.

It's a position which has brought you untold freedom, and opened up chance opportunities, such as being able to drop all logic and reason and go galavanting off to different forums on the internet for weeks at a time pretending to be a libertarian, a bleeding-heart hippie, a tough-but-fair misogynist fuck, or a teenage know-it-all, several times a year. You also never want for time. Your friend has moved out of his mothers' politics and suddenly he became a very boring person, since it's impossible to get him to troll anything. 'Bit retarded argument here, mate'. Well I am, and I'm fucking loving it.

Is this my 'Lurker's stern talking down to'?

I'm just saying. Being bothered by a misleading title is one (dumb) thing, but you're in a different ballpark altogether.

Here lets all read the article from a source that doesn't seem to bash Islam.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Saudi rape victim 'having affair'

Ohh it even says in the BBC article that the guy who she was seeing outside of marriage got raped too, guess he learned his lesson eigh?

Here's a recent article that doesn't even say anyone confessed to an affair. The closest it says is that she met this guy without a chaperone, and that the ministry claims she was 'in a state of undress' but then again they are the same guys who think talking to a government-sympathetic news agency is worth an additional 110 lashes.

Also, I found no evidence so far that the rapists are getting any lashes at all. I'm just saying.

To be fair, that may be because under Saudi Arabian law, the penalty for rape is death by beheading.

That is not their penalty. In the OP they are sentenced to jail, no beheading though.

Another article with possible explanation:

bummer

According to CNN, the man was actually raped as well.

God why are you repeating this anti-Arab propaganda? :mad:

My goodness. I thought the story spoke itsself. With all the emotion flying around where are the solutions.

Some countries could get together & invade like with Afghanistan. Then all the women will live happily ever after. Sort of.
Me I am for an invasion of Christian missionaries. Missions To Islam
A different faith brings different views on justice.

Why not judaism instead? They haven't done anything barbaric, have they?

Personally I say we spread hinduism instead. Cows anyone?

I like to eat those, so I dunno.

Well Christianity has done many a righteous invasion, so they kinda know what to do, I'm sure they have a little big book telling them of the God's way of purifying the heathens that do not see the light of the true God.

Tbh just seeing the ammount of crap I can fit into 1 sentence. I'm sure I could do more, but it's almost midnight.

Well, it's not like the Jews didn't have their own little conquests.

They were just very, very long ago.

1948 ain't that long ago :tpg:

Purely on the grounds of religion or spreading the religion, I meant. Since they were talking about "righteous invasions" and spreading the Word by sword.

I could be wrong, but I don't think Jews ever spread their religion by the sword, per se. They were conquerors at one point, and at one period of time became evangelical, but they didn't do it at the same time.

See and here I was thinking that they just took over Hollywood.

Boy do I feel dumb.

Fact: Right-wing jewish interests control the crux of mainstream media AND shape American foreign policy a great deal (the most powerful lobbyists being American Israeli Public Affairs Committee - read the "Isreal Lobby"). Because of this, peoples' attention will always be diverted to the most heinous rulings from the "backward middle-east"; I'm not defending the atrocious nature of the ruling against the woman, but things must be looked at in their social context..

CNN purposefuly left out the most important piece to the story, which was that the woman was KNOWINGLY having an extra-maritial affair (all the while surely aware of the grave consequences of adultery in the conservative nation). The laws may be bent over there, but surely you can see the way the media taints and distorts stories to forward an agenda: creating a palpable, unpredictable enemy using arab figureheads.

Next time you get raped by 7 guys named Bud in a prison shower room, you go ahead and let us all know if "knowingly" is the same thing as "willingly."

Not the drug companies?

Not Haiburton and Blackwater?

Not the RIAA / MPAA?

the NRA?

Big Tobacco?

the AARP?

The Moral Majority?

cuz they all powerful.

information is power

The Jews understood this millennia ago.

The :tpg: was kinda there for that. :3

The woman (and/or her lawyer) is still a crybaby bitch.

Instead of asking nicely for the court to appeal her case, she basically signed them up for spam international media. They held her in contempt.

The rapists deserve to die, yes.

So, overall story is:

Woman is cheating on her husband with some random bloke. 7 People turn up kidnap them, rape them and one of the rapists allegedly tapes it on his phone.

Now in order to get justice for being raped, the lying whore of a wife, goes to the police or whatever and tells them of the details.

Court hears it all out, including about the woman cheating, and punishes all the rapists with 5+ years in jail and several hundred lashes each and because the woman was cheating on her husband she got jail time and 90 lashes or whatever. Now she's unhappy for being brought to justice herself under the law that she lives and complains to the media about it. The courts, give her the royal middle finger and increase her lashes, but also at the same time increase the lashes and jail time of the actual rapists.

End of. Neh?

:gonk:

I find it poetic. I'm not one for violence, adultery or sexual crimes, but I do enjoy poetry in motion. In this case, a very fast, whipping motion. Hopefully Mel Gibson doesn't get any movie ideas from this story.

before I start - niki? Stop being so racist. I know they're brown, not black, and you're french and not American, but it still counts!

According to the same officials who feel that speaking to the media alone is worth 120 lashes, yes. The evidence only points to that she met the man without a chaperone in a public place, which is where they were kidnapped.

Now, I ain't never had extra-marital affairs before, but I don't generally have them in public while living in extremely repressive countries. What I am saying is that you are failing at critical reading skills, but that's okay, you think women deserve to be raped so your opinion doesn't matter.

She was actually forced to tell when the husband found out from a third party that the rapists were bragging about the deed. I know you haven't read much about the case, but that's okay, you think it's ambitious beyond a woman's station for her to want to see rapists be punished.

Originally they got 1-5 years in jail, and no lashes

Because the woman was caught with a male non-relative in public she was sentenced to 90 lashes and six months in jail. The last part is kind of rubbing me the wrong way, but you think that lashes aren't all that big of a deal because you haven't seen Roots before cuz you're racist, so whatever. You have no real concept of what you're talking about, because you think laws are just in the countries in which they were enacted - except for the paltry unenforceable laws you break every day, but who cares about those? I bet you reckon you wouldn't break them if it meant your hide.*

Rosa Parks was unhappy for being brought to justice. Am I comparing the civil rights movement with some raped broad in some dick country? I am.

No seriously, do you guys think laws change on their own? That, when all the other business was done, the white men on capitol hill just decided to end segregation for the fuck of it?


The Saudi-sympathetic media. Put in context you would understand, since you cannot do this on your own - it's like if I was punished for burning an American flag, and instead of bitching to Oprah or the New York Post I decided to do an interview on the O'Reily Factor. You dumb, dumb shit.

It is not the job of the courts to give anyone the middle finger, not even when they're lying bitches. I know, it's unfair and women totally take advantage of it, but that is why courts exist, to exert rule of law, not rule through law. It's an important distinction you will never make because you lack the intellectual creativity to do so.

Talking about her sentence gave her more than double her original lashes, and the rapists? Only an additional one year of jail, no lashes at all.

Oh - and that cell phone coverage you mentioned earlier? It was not admitted as evidence. The fact that the men were bragging about their conquest, which brought this whole thing to light - in other words, no one would have been punished for kidnapping and raping this woman 14 times otherwise? It was not enough evidence for the charge of rape, and that is why none of the men will be lashed or beheaded.

Quite. Why don't you watch Bleach some more, where women who are mean are punished and it all makes sense, you obnoxiously racist otaku fuck.

* no, you probably still would. Severe punishments tend to be poor deterrents for unenforceable laws, otherwise we'd still have Prohibition.

So, I'm confused. Where are people getting that she was in an affair?

If I read the article correctly, she was meeting with this man because he was blackmailing her, claiming he had a compromising photo of her. She went to the gulf to meet him and they were attacked. The photo, was in fact an innocent photo and the man tries to blame the woman for the attack. I understand the woman broke the law, but it seems like she was blackmailed into it, therefore any statements saying that she knew she was breaking the law, she was having an affair, etc are false.

Zeph: She and her lawyer DID appeal. Did you read the article at all? I fail to see how attempting to enforce basic human rights is being a cry baby. The lawyer even states that the ruling goes against recent reforms in the current justice system.

a lurker, did I say or in any way indicate that I think she deserved a lashing? No, I said she was a whore, does that mean I think less of her? Yes. Does it implicitly say that I think she deserves a fucking beating? No, so stop putting your fucking interpretations as the righteous truth. Personally I am all for treating women fairly, but I'm not going to get in a pissy about something which is totally out of my control / care boundary.

What I wrote was a "summary of the events" that were portrayed to us by the media, as they happened, I spun it a lot of a fuck less than CNN.
Did you even read the BBC article (as you profess to have read about the case to a fair extent) to which I posted a link to? The BBC's sources say the woman admitted to have an extra marital affair with the guy who was found in the car with her. Her attackers sentences were also doubled you illiterate fuck. And in regards to the lashes? Well one of the articles I read, said the men got a combined total of 2000+ lashes, so now who the fuck you going to believe?

Ok, sorry, my mistake, the guy that was with her, that was kidnapped and also allegedly raped according to some sources, got 90 lashes, I forgot that detail from the BBC article.

And you forget, with so many interpretations from various media outfits, who is really portraying the actual truth?

You seriously have to question yourself, why would I seriously care about that girl? To me she's nothing more than some simple idea that will be forgotten sooner than you'd think. What I care more about is HM C&R loosing the data of 25million people in the fucking post. Why? Because it may affect me. For all I really care, she could’ve been murdered after she was raped, I know I wouldn’t loose any sleep over it. Am I a cold emotionless fuck to people I’ve never met? Yes. Does that bother me? Not in the slightest.

Ohh you want to know what I cared about recently? I cared about the fact that a pottential Plasma TV I was thinking of buying was in fact using almost twice the power of the similarly sized LCD TV. That I cared about. Why? Well I'd have a bigger electricity bill for one, and well, not a huge fan of pollution. And so because of that care, I went for LCD TV.

Apathy, I fucking love it.

Ohh, and insulting me by calling me a Bleach loving otaku? Seriously, just, seriously... try a lot harder, kk?

Ahh the fun.

No, before you start, Lurker, stop being a fucking troll.

protip to Chiribo inside ~

Oh, I know, it's just that you kind of brought up a valid point that I should have addressed to begin with. Sorry if I sounded defensive.

No, I can't really find anything that would fit the bill of a "Jewish crusade", either. I'm mostly speaking with the idea of war with religious motivation in mind, but I'll probably see if I can't find some instance of it happening.

oh.

No, it didn't. Observe:

I helpfully linked an article that you ignored:

That is the affair.

Their sentences were increased from 1-5 years to 2-9 years (I thought it said 7 originally). Can you math?

Although I guess 1 x 2 = 2, so yeah, you win

Link it, bitch. I haven't seen anything like that.

GUYS LOOK

So are you an Ichigo / Rukia dude, or are you more into Ichigo / Orihime? Maybe you like the arrancar girls better, since they're not nice goody-goodies. Hey, what'd you get on your "Which Character From Death Note Am I" quiz? I got Light!

cared enough to diss tho~

I hope, for everyone's sake, that the lashing punishment in Saudi Arabia is different from caning in Malaysia or Singapore, because here each stroke has to be followed with a check by an attending doctor, probably to prevent the subject from dying or something.

I read all 4 fucking articles. Don't talk to me like that.

From what I gathered from the varied, skewed, and vague news reports, she whined to the media BEFORE an appeal was able to be heard.

I am just saying, the court is probably REALLY PISSED OFF because thanks to Ms. Victim, they have Hillary Clinton biting at their heels. WTF!

Just to feed the troll even more :) Saudi court sentences rape victim to 90 lashes | Jerusalem Post

Ohh and if the sentences were initially 1 to 5 years, and then increased to 2 to 10 years, ohh my fucking god, that's like, you know, doubled!

And yes, it really is you who's in a pissy, I'm finding you rather ammusing now.

Now, I gotta go find a /care cup.

In movies and books, especially cheap older paperbacks, usually the author would want to trump up his characters' traits, but would not know all that much about them. He may be writing a spy novel - it's a fair shot that he wouldn't know much about spying, or state of the art surveillance equipment; he probably wouldn't know much about assassins or bomb experts, or political machinations in several disparate countries, or what it takes to be a persuasive and charismatic political leader.

Therefore, instead of showing actual skill or knowledge about these fields and traits, he takes all of them backstage and has the other characters hype up their deeds. Usually this is fine for like physical acts, but when it's a character trait like the persuasive and charismatic political leader and that character needs to be on all the time, it's really noticeable that he isn't.

Do you know what I'm trying to say? I'm saying that, next time you get into an internet fight, don't decide halfway through an opus of a post that you suddenly don't care, and then continue posting about it.

Tell me more about how little you care in 10,000 words or less.

also laughing at your sig

you have the same characterization as a Mary-Sue character

See you misunderstood me, I really don't care about the case. This, in fact, is my care cup \_/s

See, it's empty.

The only thing I wished to point out is the blatant lack of facts from the CNN article. You know where I found that other article? By searching for "rape lashes" on the CNN site.

And hell, I'm at work, it's a quiet day, gotta do something to pass the time :)

MSWord seems to think the above is about 75 words, bit lacking from your target of 10k eigh?

And laughing at my sig eigh? Well the world is a better place now that you're amused.... ¬_¬

You counted your last post's wordcount to prove a point to me.

The point proven is not that you're too aloof to care.

I didn't count it, Microsoft Word did. I simply, like previously, passed on the information.

So Chiribo, what's it like to be a misogynistic troglodyte who accuses women of deserving lashes for supposed affairs? I bet it's pretty great. I mean, the hating women part must not be so grand, but it's like you've got your own little world.

fxd

ITT people jump at the throat of neutral people who value accuracy.

FAIR AND BALANCED

This is what set up this whole joke of a debate, if you did'nt notice.

lying whore of a wife

neutral people who value accuracy

lying whore of a wife

neutral people who value accuracy

lying whore of a wife

neutral people who value accuracy

lying whore of a wife

neutral people who value accuracy



Oh, my bad, you define what your stance is in your first post. Everything after that is to be ignored.

lying whore of a wife jesus christ you frognigger

haha is this Foxnews

Slam the right keywords all you want, it still doesn't change the fact you're deeply intellectually dishonest and full of shit.

You're one to talk about keywords, when the only thing the guy said that approached neutral was that the thread's title was inflammatory.

Oh well, you think Islam is different than Christianity because people can twist Islam to evil purposes, where Christianity is a solid bedrock of time-proven scripture. whatev~

lying whore of a wife is the new accuracy

Bradylama, feels good thanks. Ohh by the way, read my previous posts. Where I indicate just how much I think she should be lashed. I think you missed something there... but who am I to say that, a So, lurker, you say "lying, cheating wife" I say "lying whore of a wife".

What's the problem exactly? I was marely providing a summary of alleged events so far. You'd rather I bash Islam and forget the wife ever allegedly cheated?

I love it. People pretending to care. It's like fruit being rotten before it falls from the tree. You wonder what the smell is and then you decide not to picnic under it. Don't mind me. I had raw broccoli and a few shots of rum for breakfast. I am scum of the earth.

To be honest, yes. I would much rather that you bash Islam instead of acting like somebody deserved to be whipped for cheating.

Like I said, I never said that I think she deserved a whipping, I said that that's a fucked up.
What I did say was that she knew what she was getting herself into. She must've known the law and its consequences.

Look at it from this way: If I was caught driving 100mph on a 30mph road and made a fuss about loosing my driving license because of it, all of you would say that I knew the law and what I would have to endure as punishment and to shut the fuck up.

There's no problem here, I was just saying you're wrong and have no capacity for critical thought. Then you went on about how your sippy cup was too full of guran lagaan episodes for you to think about anything else, and I lost interest at that point because I don't like dealing with adult babies.

So I lack critical thought because I provided a summary of the various news stories... Okay...

=

?

Credibility lost forever.

Oh wait it was already when you called me a racist over it. Intellectual dishonesty and immaturity now ? tsk tsk

I'm not going to waste much energy on this thread of insults, so here's a short summary of my perspective:

Yes, the article was factually incomplete. But whether the wife was having an affair or not remains unclear. What we know is that she was with another man. This is illegal there (whether it should be or not), so we may assume that she knew she was committing an offence (although it is a ridiculous offence in my eyes).

What surprises me is the change of opinion this produced in some posters here. She met with a man who wasn't a husband, and possibly had an affair with him, so she deserves to be abducted, raped, and then lashed for it?! And people say Islam is backwards in its views...!

The fact that she was meeting with another man had nothing to do with the rape. If she had been alone, she would have been even easier to abduct. Does one offence justify the other, much more severe one? Or does the injustce rather lie in the act of victim-blaming for rape itself? Or in the fact that women are repressed?

I would say it's a combination of all of these, but that this is not necessarily a direct consequence of the Islamic religion as such. Islam in Germany is different from Islam in urban Turkey, which is different from Islam in rural Turkey, which is different from Islam in Saudi Arabia...Religions do not develop independently; they are a product of the social context. In this case, it is the product of a highly stratified society, where some are immensely rich due to oil, a wealth that was acquired over a relatively short period of time, and the rest very poor. This social stratification extends to every area, including the family, where it is produced according to gender and age.

Consider the industrialisation period in Western Europe (factory owners and the proletariat, etc.), which didn't lead to anything that extreme, but still included a similar hierarchy, with female workers getting hardly any pay in the factories, and raising children at the same time, children being exploited even more in the factories with even less protection from accidents and death, etc. Then look at the sexual moral of the middle class at that time, the strict Victorian rules of conduct for women.

Rather than bashing a whole religion, we should perhaps consider where these views originated, and look to change the social conditions which produced them, and question our own perceived moral superiority.

I think that just with the flawed topic title alone, the TC just opened the floodgates for insults to be thrown left right and center at "primitive middle-east". Before a few thoughtful posts came in (like the one prior from Traveller87), which began scrutinizing the historical and cultural context behind the laws in the Kingdom, the TC with the ludicrous title, helped shape the argument by setting the agenda according to his/her own terms. Obviously the lashes weren't prescribed because of her getting raped (I still think they were for a ludicrous reason but that's where the ultra-conservative laws come in) - but the TC helped to spur some of the contempt that was to follow from fellow posters by giving such a hate-filled opinion to start off with.


In doing so tried he (purposefully or not) reinforced some closed-minded individuals' stereotypes and fears about a nation already under fire from an already biased media.