Gal Pal problems.
 

This part deleted due to problems that would occur if a new member read this part and told her/someone else.

Now, I have feelings for her; as I have mentioned beforehand. And I have kept all of my advice and opinions unbiased and it's getting harder and harder to keep them under wraps and under control. I really just want to tell her how I feel, but I know that at this moment, it would be the worst time to even mention anything like that to her. So question 1) How can I keep my emotions in control?

Second question; what advice can I give her that will help her out? I mean, I really care about her so I really just want her to be happy, but I'm afraid if I suggest to get back with him that she might get physically hurt.

Irony: This is exactly how her last bf turned out. He made her feel like shit the same way, (though he was also suicidal) and her present bf came along and she only told him bout her problems with her first ex and then she started goin out with her current bf.

Iono what to do about my feelings right now. And I would appreciate any and all advice I can get for that, and how to help her out.

You really shouldn't tell her your feelings, it would just make her uncomfortable. I highly advise against it. Keep your emotions in control by considering that fact that you CAN'T instigate a relationship with her, but you can be a good friend. (seems like you already grasped that)

Well an advice you can give her is that YOU are there for her if she needs any help etc...Heck you can just call her or something, or email her.

First you have to answer this; are you willing to lose this guy as a friend? Gain him as an enemy?

Because that's what will probably happen if you pursue this girl. Now, whether or not you do that is an entire other question. I'm not sure what you should do, but I do know what I'd do. I'd be honest, with both of them. It may result in some nasty stuff, but in the end you'll feel better for it.

Or you'll feel like shit. But honesty really is the best policy, in my opinion.

Well I'm aware that I shouldn't tell her my feelings. First and foremost because it might make her think my opinions would be biased and then wouldn't be able to get help from anyone.
I've made it noted that I'm there for her. I'm really badly sick as of yesterday morning and last night I stayed up all night with her (we were at our own houses, but I was helping her over aim and just waiting around when she said she didn't feel like talking anymore for a few moments).
So far I think the only circumstances that I would reveal my feelings towards her is if a) She was a GF member, (then I'm boned). or b) they break up, it's been a long while and she is making it known (flirting) that she has some sort of interest in me. (Luckily she is the type who would be willing ot make the first move).
And as I have said...I only want for her to be happy right now.

Double Post:
He's a good friend, but as of lately he has seemed quite emotionally unstable and to be honest it has scared me as of late and I'm not really sure how close I really am to him as of late.
As for honesty being the best policy. The problem is that she is under soo much mental stress right now and is still in love with him. My saying that now would probably only put her under more stress and would be moot since she still has strong feelings for her. Right?

Moot? If you were honest it shouldn't be in an attempt to get in her pants. It'd be an effort to do what's best for all involved. Like as not your current advice is most likely biased anyway, and your growing distance from this guy is probably stemming from your feelings for this woman, too.

My feelings toward the guy might be, but honestly, would you be cool with someone shoving a close friend into a wall, throwing a box at her, and saying he did nothing wrong? I mean, seriously?

It isn't an attempt to get in her pants or anything like that, but I'm not necesarily sure what you mean by 'it'd be an effort to fo what's best for all involved.'.

And surprisingly, I've kept all my advice in check. The only time I really came close to saying something biased was when she asked my opinion on whether or not she should go back to him. To which I responded something along the lines of 'I can't really say for sure, since I'm not in your shoes. Both ways that you can go have their ups and downs. And I cannot say what you should do in regards to that because I'm not in your place and don't know how strong your feelings for him still are.'

Sorry if I was vague, I'll calrify. Yes, it may put her under more, stress. I took your 'moot' comment to mean that it wouldn't result in you two having any relations beyond what you do now, and it in fact may lead to less. That's all true, sadly. But in the long run being honest with her would be the best course.

It'd take a load off your back by allowing you to finally be honest with her in all areas, and free you of the burden of looking at everything objectively. And, previously stated, it'd probably suck for her at first but in the end she'd thank you for it.

Sounds like you suffer from typical nice guy syndrome to me. I’d walk away and let them handle their own shit. The more you deal with shit like this, the more bitter and psychotic you get. Find another chick to replace her.

That is ideal SMX, but I don't think our dear Aequietas has it in him to do so. Just read his posts...

Okay, I’m going to give more detailed advice and try to relate to the nice guys way of thinking again, then.

Aequitas, your problem is simple. It only seems hard to you because you’re in it, and thus – whether you’re consciously are aware of it or not – you analysis, or more so your ability to take action, is affected by your emotional connection.

Lemma: You like girl.

Delima: If anything happens between girl you like, you might lose friend(s).

The first choice of action is obvious, its Friend(s) vs Possible Girlfriend/FWB. You ultimately have to decide what you want the most and deal with the consequences of doing so. Nobody but you can tell which one it’s best to go with. However, know that no matter what you do, even if you do walk away, there will be consequences to deal with. You just need to stop thinking about it and actually take action. Thinking about it over and over again will make you go crazy. If not with this particular scenario, then some time in the future with another one. There are people that have been there done that already enough to know, and I’m one of them.

If you let them deal with it on their own:
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You might feel like a heartless bastard at first, but that’ll go away eventually. Actually, they’ll probably increase proportionately to you being the consoler. You can still be friends with them but avoiding playing the counselor role. Or at least, balance the counselor role. Your needs are important too. How often does the female friend genuinely help you out, emotionally? I’m assuming an appropriate balance doesn’t exist, because if it did, you telling her how you feel wouldn’t be an issue. Regardless if she was taken or not, it probably would have came out by now unless this just started happening. Ultimately though, find other girls and explore with them.

If you pick playing counselor: (what you’re doing now)
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Your feelings for girl probably won’t go away. You might manage to suppress them, but that’s going to lead you down the path of bitter hate that eventually 99% of all nice guys get too. You need to stop supplicating to her emotional stupidity. I’m not going to get into breaking down the psychology here. But I seriously advise you to read the following link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nice_guy_syndrome

Read the links on the “Essay” part as well. Don’t get in denial and view the information in a scientific manner while sequentially attempting to debunk its basis while at it. The point is to show that there’s hundreds and thousands of guys that go through this shit and it’s mostly rooted in insecurity complexes among all parties.

If you continue to do this, and you get emotional enough, you probably will do something incredibly stupid because of it and risk loosing them both as friends anyway. Whatever happens, know that suppressing your feelings will, eventually, blow up in your face. Either get over her properly (find happiness somewhere else) or go for her:

If you pick going for the Girl
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Know that while you are jeopardizing your friendship with the guy, emotions are not constant. They change, a lot. It’s possible that the guy might be mad, only at first. It might be possible that their relationship might be at a point where they already know it’s about to go to hell, and he just kind of accepts it. You just have to deal with the fact that you can’t possibly think of or predict every possible variable and thus must take a risk. Your focus shouldn’t be avoiding risk, but dealing with them as they happen.

In all honestly, I think it’s highly unlikely that the girl is going to regard you in a romantic manner considering all the blatant warning signs. However, if you’re at this point, you need to take action and test that. Do not communicated with words, communicate with actions. IE, don’t try to rationally explain to the chic: “hey I like you.” This only works when the female holds you in a very high romantic regard to the point where what you do doesn’t really matter anymore. If this was the case, you would know it by now, trust me. Instead, test your water with her. You need to escalate physical contact and judge how receptive she is with it. A rough idea of escalating physical contact would be:

In order from ‘harmless’ to ‘I want you’

- Greeting them with physical contact, like an arm hug (bodies don’t meet)
- A joke that somehow integrates touching them lightly
- A playful/witty mannerism that involves higher physical contact like rubbing
- Light tickling/poking
- Greeting with hug (involves close and direct body contact)
- Heavy ticking/grabbing
- Joking that involves suggestive contact
- Suggestive ticking/grabbling

A flashing green light would be her trying to provoke you to do any of it. A green light would be her playing along with you. A yellow light would be getting irritated, or avoiding it. A red light would be freezing up, jumping.

If you can get to the suggestive part, get her alone somehow, preferably emotional, and just kiss her. If she goes with it, stop eventually then rationalize the kiss with her and the friend later. If she pulls back, then it’s time to explain that you having feelings. Remember that if a person is at the point where they willingly want to cheat in a relationship, that’s not your fault, but is the fault of a rocky relationship to begin with. If dealt with maturely, sometimes it’s ultimately for the best. If the guys is really your good friend, though understandably pissed, he should eventually be able to put himself in your shoes and see what why you did what you did. It’s called forgiveness.

Out of all of this, the most important thing is that you need to take some type of action. Although it seems backwards, when dealing with emotions, a lot of the time what you do isn’t nearly as important as the fact that you actually do it. Stop trying to avoid making mistakes and learn to deal with them when they happen.

Thanks SMX for the in depth post.

As for how often she helps me out. I'm pretty much the only person I go to for my problems (which is about as often as she goes to me about her problems, relationship and otherwise). So there is somewhat of a balance with the helping and such.

As for the starting to make a move on her, that is idealy, what I would like to do. But I'm thinking that I should hold off on actually trying it for a few days and such. First, to see what their course of action is (getting back together, taking a break, completely breaking up) because she is the type of person that is truly devoted to the person she loves, and even though she is mad at him she still loves him. And in me trying to do anything like making a move immediatly, I will most likely get pushed away and such.

Another problem with making a move at this point is the fact that everyone thinks that they are still a couple and everything is perfectly fine. Only the two people in the couple and I know that they actually broke up/made up and all this stuff. And she and I are pretty much only around each other when there's people who know us are around. So me trying to make a move on her would possibly get them to think negatively about me, seeing as they would see her and him still being in a relationship and such. correct?

Thanks for all the wonderful advice so far!

Living proof of that, baby.

Look, coming on to her now will only make her start closing herself off to you. She's in a shitty relationship now and she doesn't need a friend crawling up her ass with more feelings given the hostile "feeling" enviroment she's in now.

Drop that shit like its yellow cake. GTFO and don't look back.

We attract what we are, and we are what we surround ourselves with. This girl attracts (and puts up with) psycho guys. Therefore, she has problems. A lot of guys actually seek out girls like this subconsciously so they can rescue them, but girls like this don't want to be rescued. They want boyfriends who treat them like shit. If they didn't want it, they wouldn't have it - it's as simple as that.

Also, she's going through enough turmoil right now without having to also deal with the fact that a person she considers to be a friend and confidante has developed romantic feelings for her. If you really want to help her, slap her across the face - hard. Then ask her how she liked it, and tell her that if she doesn't get her shit together she's in for a lifetime of that sort of treatment from men.

Yeah, I was planning on waiting awhile before telling her anything I think.
(I've had feelings for her in the past and she has known that)

But also, she tends to go for people who are slightly wacky (that I am, example: Bouncing a fast food bottle (the ones with the easy to pop off tops) off our sculpting teachers back into the garbage can...yeah, at art school we all do crazy stuff like that, even the teachers). and people who seem nice. The only difference I have seen so far between the characteristics of her old boyfiends and myself is the one of them was suicidal, and one of them is somewhat fucked up in the head now that one of our best friends killed himself and he stopped taking his ADHD meds. Otherwise they both were somewhat of the nice guy type too...save for they were a wee bit more fit then I...ok, somewhat more fit. heh.

If it weren't for that and she goes for the type of people that are complete asses I probably wouldn't consider telling her and being near her right now because I know I would have no chance at it. I may be really nice but I'm not someone who sucks at thinking things out! haha.

Also, in terms on contact lately, as of late I have had more physical contact with her. Such as hugging her when I'm leavin and won't see her till the next day or so, or jokingly doing one of those 'ghetto' long ass hugs where you like, slap eachothers hands then do all the crazy stuff then the whole bumping shoulders thing. (Btw, we live in an area mostly full of caucasians and asians and that we don't act like that other then the hug, cause it's just funny to do).
And finally, she is somewhat 'touchy' with people she is really close to. She hugs me a lot, and other random things (too many to write down) and I'm the only other guy other then her bf that is treated like that.

Double Post:
To retort, she really doesn't go for that type on purpose. It just ends up lke that. Her first boyfriend she found out was suicidal after he attempted to and left a note for her saying it was all her fault and some other things. Her second boyfriend (the current one) is a really nice guy and none of us really knew he had any mental problems or anything. But since one of our best friends commited suicide he stopped taking his ADHD meds and his thuoghts and actions are really fucked up now (at least with her).

Thanks for the advice! (I may actually have to slap both of them, though I don't know which one it would be more enjoyable to slap.)

I gotta ask - how old are you? I think I was having these problems when flannel was "in" and My So Called Life wasn't yet canceled.

Look don't even bother telling her you like her. She knows it - she's just stringing you along because she knows you don't have it in you to just grab her hand and put it on your trouser snake. See, because you're such a nice guy - you won't try something stupid like kiss her or masturbate using her panties.

She's doing this because she's deranged like her boyfriend, just in a more subtle way.

Women are shit. Holla.

That's what I used to tell myself, too. Then after lots of reading up and learning about what causes this kind of thing to happen, and eventually going through counseling, I found out that women who mysteriously keep ending up with these abusive, mentally ill or just plain jerky guys definitely do it on purpose. It's more of a subconscious thing, but it's definitely a choice we make. Check back with her in ten years and see if her track record magically changes (without getting some help) or if she just happens to have hooked up with five or six more guys just like the ones you described.

LeHal: I'm 17, and have been having these problems since people in my school who are causasian or asian act african american. (3 years or so)

What exactly do you mean by stringing me along? And the later on what you said for the something stupid category is kinda weird. Hah.

AliceNWonderland: 10 years you say....hmmm. Yeah, I can see what you mean by that. I guess as you said, only thing to do is wait and see (essentially)

If she knows you've liked her for a while, why did she hook up with this other, abusive guy? She skipped over you, man. You're second-string, you're Ducky from Pretty In Pink.

"If you want someone to love you, open your heart. If you want someone to be obsessed with you, close it."

You just gained 10 cool points, LeHah. <3

Your avatar plus that Ducky reference has given you a hell of a lot of bonus points.

I had feelings for her last school year in september (2004). This was when I was oblivious and didn't really notice that she and her current boyfriend really liked eachother and were starting to go out. So I let my feelings just fade and she realized that I liked her earlier because my actions around her weren't the same (around Oct 2004) (Side:note, I met her and became friends with her in Sep 2004) I'm not entirely sure if she currently has any idea that I have feelings about her though.

Probably the truth here. Considering your age she might still be somewhat naive and not really be aware of how she’s going to manipulate you get what she wants. (One day you’ll actually see just how much typical females do this crap) But the point is that, like most young ignorant females, she knows you’re going to deal with any stupid emotional crap she throws at you. You’re her safety net. Instead of improving herself, her quality, her situations, she’s probably just going to fall back on her safety net. In other words, she's going to use you, her emotion whore.

Also, what you want to do is referred to by this as a ladder jump. Whether or not you agree with the site is irrelevant. The idea here is that you’re trying to jump from the friend zone to romantic interest. The only way you even have a remote chance of this working is if you take charge and do something to entice sexual interest that she never associate you with doing. Also, this definately will cause the most drama between everybody. Probably so much so that you don't have the experience to deal with. The good part, though, is that you'll probably get a lot of experience from shaking things up like this. Just dont' be dumb and start shit simply for the sake of doing it.

The only way I’d take this route personally is if I there’s was just this special connection there with her unlike anything I have not only experienced, but know damn well that I’ll only find once in a blue moon.

I read through the whole site, and upon doing so I'm not entirely sure how I would do a 'ladder jump' successfully. The only thing I saw on the site was two examples of unsuccessful ladder jumps where he tries to kiss her and gets rejected, and where he asks her on a second date and gets rejected. Is that supposed to say that there is no way to successfully do a ladder jump?

Lol @ the Master Ladder.

Well I don't know about the revelancy of page-long posts... but the steps to take are obvious :

Wait it out. Stay friends, you will know exactly when she is in fact ready to be over this shit-bag that hits her... you can tell her how you feel. Oh, and please punch you friend in the face and tell his sorry ass to stop hitting his woman.

Well I'm going to be at art school tonight and if he does actually try anything to hurt her I will punch him hard in the face. Otherwise I can't since I'm not really supposed to know anything.

Okay, NO.

Firstly, what you do is this - you get the girl behind you and calmly say to him "We're leaving". And then leave.

LEAVE. Don't saunter away, don't curse him out, don't do anything theatrical. Just pack your shit and GTFO.

Okay, see, heres how the law will work in your favor. What happens is that if (God Help Us) police were to get involved, you'd be cuffed for taking a swing at him, even if it was in protection of the girl. When an office arrives on the scene and sees one guy on the ground and someone else standing over him, Officer Joe Schmo automaticly has to assume that the one standing was the aggressor and did something like break a bottle over the other guy's head or the like.

However, if you actually give a real attempt to defuse the situation by leaving the scene and he attacks you, THEN it's self-defense. Barring stuff thats excessively violent like curbstomps or breaking his windpipe, you're in the right to protect yourself from bodily harm until he's no longer a threat. Don't stomp him like a nigger once he's on the ground - thats excessive force and he could sue. However, if you try to walk out and he comes at you with a haymaker, all you need to do is put all the weight into the heel of your foot and bring it to his knee and break that shit. He's out of the fight.

I don't agree with getting into a fight nor you breaking people's knees but this is fucking truth, son.

Sorry, wht I said probably sounded too severe?
If he is assaulting her or anything at art school tonight, or anything of the sort, I will remove him from her to protect her and make sure she gets to safety, and if he turns on me, of course limited self defense.

Ok, I didn't mean to start a fight here. I just meant... since the guy is your best friend, you should be able to talk some sense into him if he's violent with the girl...

Surprisingly, not really. Once he gets the idea that what he did isn't wrong, there is no convincing him otherwise -_-

Then let him know that it is indeed wrong...

Neither her nor I were able to tell him that him shoving her into a wall hurt her physically and emotionally, and he thinks he didn't hurt her and he was right in doing it. -_-

Anyone ever tell you that you drain all the fun out of nigger stomping, LeHah?

I aint never stomped out no spooks myself - but when I was in elementary school I did slap around a towelhead once like he was a bitch who was holding out on a roll

Haha, im not stupid enough to not know there are two sides. The only thing I know is true for certain is him assaulting her/shovingher into a wall at art school. Mainly because someone asked me what was happenin between those two. And I have talked to him and he has stated that he has done nothing to hurt her, and has never hurt her, mentally or physically. Yet I allso heard the assault story from her shortly after. And since I already heard it form another, unbiased source, my current viewpoint is that he seems more at fault.
She has even admitted to me that neither of them are perfect, and that she has done very minor things (like say some stuff she didn't mean during arguments and such). But he believes it's all of her fault and he has done nothing wrong.

She probably is. But I have seen one or two of their fights from beginning to end in art school. Always starting with her saying something jokingly, he gets offended, then is overly critical of her and get's even further annoyed by 'the tone of her voice' which is generally calm, until they start yelling.
I'm not saying that she isn't bending the truth at all. I'm just saying that from what I've seen she probably isn't bending it a hell of a lot.

OK, this guy is slamming her against walls and telling her he doesn't like the tone of her voice? This dude is a wife-beater waiting to happen. And she's allowing all this to continue? She either has no self-esteem or she's used to being abused by men (probably her own father). In either case, she's got more problems than you'd want to deal with, I can assure you.

I'd stay friends with her, because it definitely sounds like she needs a friend, but a relationship with someone who is emotionally unwell usually ends badly. At your age, is this really something you're capable of dealing with?

Yeah, her last bf was emotionally unwell and that took her a month to get over it. Her father doesn't beat her, it's just that she still has feelings for him, though isn't really sure whether or not ot continue the relationship or not. From the looks of it it's leaning towards taking a (possibly long) break. During which I will obviously be friends with her.
And surprisingly I'm somewhat good at handling numerous things. A long time ago my father was physically abusive, to an extent, and mentally abusive to my whole family (though only physically to me). Saw a psych about that, my crohn's disease, and numerous otehr things. So although I'm not capable of probably helping her out completely, I might be able to do something for her in terms of having a physically abusive signiicant other, y'know?

You know what would be funny? It would be hilarious beyond words if the next time he shoved her up against a wall she pulled a set of brass knuckles out of her little Coach bag and beat the living shit out of him in front of God and everyone. That would teach the little scumbag to shove girls.

she doesn't use coach, she just uses a kipling backpack.

And as for anything else comical. I advised her if it were to happen again nailing him in the crotch would paralyze him long enough for her to slowly walk off laughing.

True. It's OK to defend a gal when the situation calls to it, but if she starts crying AND it's "because she still loves the guy"...it'd just get on my nerves. :lolsign:

You're right.

However, there is the more devious of plots, which your avatar reminds me of someone who would do.

Slightly poison the well and keep poisoning more and more each time.
She's fragile right now... If you're as pussy as you come off... Poison that well... take advantage of it... She talks about the problems in the relationship, tell her you understand how she feels but you don't see why someone who "loves" you would do the things he does. Point them out. Poison that shit like it's Kool Aid, baby.

Double Post:
Alice is right.

Damaged goods are NO GOOD.

She's currently broken up with him (most likely for good now) and he refuses to talk to her and she is fed up with him and such.

My current idea is to wait until I can see that she is getting / already is over him then start to make a move. Would that be the best course of actions?

Any advice in what to do from here on out in terms of flirting/asking her out and timing and such? I've always sucked at it and have it blown up in my face.

Invite her out to coffee or something. If you do, converse about something other than her shitty relationship. Take it slow and easy (don't flirt unless she's playing hardball) and just try to make her comfortable with you.

Moreover, if the girl flirts you with, tread with care. She's not all there.

Alice and LeHah are both right about damaged goods. Allow me to add my two cents.

The girl broke up with the bloke - all fine and good. But any woman who ALLOWS a man to shove her against a wall and runs off crying deserves what she gets.

Yea, yea, emotional pain yadda yadda. A man strikes me, I it him back twice as fucking hard. (And yea, I know I am a crazy shehulk bitch, but really).

Whats worse is that she (and others) decided to talk about this. I don't get this mentality at all. It's like she's LOOKING for pity. And man, I may be wrong on this one, but these women are the sorts that you should RUN FROM. As fast as you fucking can.

Sass, you don't seem to like the "I'd like to talk to someone about my emotional pain" mentality of certain people. I've asked you this before, but would you rather people supress it? Some people can't handle that very well.

The hell are you referring to, precisely. I need some clarification.

You-know-who.

THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION! That makes it much more clear!

-_-

Sorry, nevermind.

So just see if she wants to get some coffee or catch a movie sometime and such?
Also, when would I know when it is a good time to flirt / how to tell if she is interested in me?

I think right now, you should be focused more on being there for her. Let her come to you.

And make sure it's not in a week.

Although, depending on your age, she could be over the guy in a week. WHO KNOWS!

Are you in uni or in high school??

Currently in High School, 12th grade. And the two of us are going to be going to the same college.

And by "Let her come to you" are you refering to let her ask me, or wait until she flirts or something?
(Also, if it isn't much of a bother, what are some of the ways you can tell if a girl is flirting with you?)

If you're seniors in high school, I would imagine you have a reasonable grasp on relationships.

So. What I am saying is give her distance, give her time. Let her decide when is good for her. You don't want to push - you'll only end up pushing her away. Unless she IS that unstable person I see a bit of.

I really can't tell what kind of a girl she is. She DID break up with him. But she DID announce this shit to people. So.

What I am trying to say (sorry sorry) is that you should wait until she shows an interest in you. If that doesn't happen on it's own, I would wait some time before trying anything.

But flirting? Maybe a couple of months? I don't know. I can't get a good READING. ^_^

She hasn't really anounced any of this to anyone other then me, so she didn't realy 'announce' it to people.

She isnt really that unstable, its just when she loves someone she'll try to fix the relationship until she's f'n fed up, then she'll just end it.

How will I be able to tell if she does show an interest in me / flirts with me?

Trust me, you'll know.

She'll stick her hands down your pants. If she doesn't, it's obviously not love.

I am the wise Sage in the ANGST! forums.

I think if she had her hands down my pants I would care less about asking her out at that moment =p

So you're saying you're only in it for the SEX?

No wonder you can't tell.

When you're only in it for the sex it's way easier to tell!

It's called sarcasm, I guess I forgot that doesn't carry over well online.:biggrin:

Are you asking me how you can tell if a girl is flirting with you?

Man. You're a senior in high school?

Just wait patiently. Someone once said patience is a virtue, and he was probably right. You'll probably be able to tell, if you're the intelligent sort. But don't rush to conclusions. She may not even have an interest in you romantically.

I'd say after 6-8 months or so, if she hasn't made a move on you, she's either not interested or you need to step up your game and stop waiting for her to come to you.

6-8 months ? Geez... they weren't married or anything. And from what I gather, she's been in more than a relationship... and since you're both still in high-school... I would say :

Be the 'good guy' and be there for her... should last 30-45 days. If after that point she does not actively still fuck around with the ex... I would tell you to step it up just a notch and tell her you really enjoy being around her and that you'dd like to do shit outside of school...in your case go out for some coffee or whatever floats your boat.

Then, you're going to be perfectly able to see if it's worth anymore of your time... If not, hey... life's a long-ass journey.Clarification :

I met a girl about a year ago, went out with her a few times, for maybe a month, but shit happens and at that time I was a pussy and went back with my ex. When shit didnt last with my ex... I felt fucking sorry for myself because that other girl I had met was such a score... We were still talking on MSN and she had this stupid shit boyfriend at the time... well it turns out she eventually left the guy because she definitely had feelings for me.

What I'm saying is, if you love the girl... you might be better off going out with her when you're 21 than when you're 17... chances are you'll be able to hang around longer... so don't rush things. If it's not in her interest at this point in time... carry on. Live your life and chances are if you're going to the same college, you guys are going to stay in contact and eventually things might be different. You seem like the 'intellectually-oriented' type guy that's maybe a bit shy with the women... and for some odd shit reason, us intellos really don't get much female attention anywhere before college... lol

What.

All I am saying is don't PUSH. Unless she comes knocking on his door, I would wait it out patiently. Like you said, there IS no real rush. THey're going to probably know each other for a long time, since they're going to the same college and all.

I would recommend just getting closer to her as a FRIEND than trying to rush into having a relationship with the girl. Let her ripen up a little bit.

Make a move, pretty much.

I'm not saying that you should make a move at this point, but the advice is in this thread is horrible. It's a one way ticket to the friend zone and blue balls land. You need to establish that you are a sexual being and that you want her. Don't be all dramatic with it either. You can still let her know that you understand her situation and identify with giving her some space and the whole ordeal with your old friend. But still, this shit has to get it out in the open. If you don't, and she's even remotely attractive, some other fuck off will.

Tell her what you're telling us. Just don't do it in a "OMG I LOVE YOU SO MUCH" manner. Rather, do it in a "Hey, I think something could happen between us, what do you think?" manner.

You know, being friends is more important than getting laid - especially if you're looking for a lasting relationship.

But hey - if he's looking for sex and sex alone, then yea. The advice sucks.

I actually agree Sass.

But the fact of the matter is that the typical girl - especially around his age - have two very different connotations to friendships and relationships. He's going about it like the typical nice guy and as such, will probably end up getting the kiss of death ("I just want to be friends") just like the typical nice guy. You DO NOT want this. It it gives you false hope and make you grow tired and hateful.

Therefore, as a guy since we have to deal with this shit, it's best to establish romantic interest first and make friends later.

That initially sounds SO BACKWARDS to me, but upon thinking about it, I think you may be on to something.

I have no idea what this girl really IS like, though. My brain wants to label her as a sympathy whore, but she broke UP with the guy. So I am kind of FUZZY on her reading.

But if she has a romantic interest in him at all, it will come out eventually, right? I mean, how many guys are CONVINCED they can push their love on a girl and make them like him back? Its insane.

You can't CONVINCE someone to like you, guys. It won't work. ESPECIALLY with women.

True, but remember that romantic interest is not binary. In otherwords, it's not like it's an on or off state. It's analog. It varies, a lot. The only way she's going to come on to him is if the interest was SO high, and frequent, that she can't take holding it in anymore. There may be a low (even to the point where it's not really conscious yet) level of romantic interest that's there with the girl. However, he has to invoke this romantic interest by some means. Otherwise, even if it's there, she's going to pass him off as not liking her 'like that.' Some other guy is going to come along, and the cycle of him being the her emotional whore to the other guy is going to repeat.

Ahahhahahahhahahaha, do you have a girlfriend, you fucking nerd.

(No. I really liked the metaphor. GEEK. ^_^ )

Whats your reasoning, here??

I would think spending plenty of time doing some rather ambiguous "friendlike slash date like" activities together would open a door to these kinds of feelings, yes.

It kind of begs the question of "where do I stand here. We're in some interesting territory, here."

I'm a computer science dork, so I couldn't help. :P And just for the sake of saying it, no I'm not in a relationship. More like, I fool around with random chics that I happen to come across.


I admit not all girls are unwilling to express interest, directly (no stupid ambigious signals), to somebody they like. But most girls keep it in and just sit around waiting for the guy to make a move, especially when they're young and immature. So, unless the girl is just SO infatuated with the guy, she's probably going to chicken out and not say anything.

The dilemma of every nice guy out there.

I thought like this once too. But after ending up in the friend zone with friendships that seemed so perfect for a relationship, I sat down and rethought my position. So basically I just stop giving a damn about females feelings or forming bonds with them (initially) and just did/said whatever I wanted. Sure enough, it got to the point where some girls started having secret crushes and got all giggly and shit over me. I have some theories on why this happens. But as a guy, after a while you just start to accept that being sexually enticing has to come first.

Well, yea. I guess the stupid girls do that. =/

But in all reality, I have no idea what this one is like. I almost ALWAYS see a glint of personality that can determine what a girl will do when a man talks about her.

But this one is SHADY, man. I don't know what to think!
The dilemma of every nice guy out there.
Ah, jaded. I SEE. But you know this guy isn't like you - nor as experienced, I imagine, so why advise him like he was your peer, you know?

Depends on the kind of girl you're aiming your groin at, sir.

The "nice guy" approach sometimes works. But like you said, its definitely not foolproof. You take a risk - but without more knowledge, I can offer no more, you know?

Well after reading through your conversation here, I have the following info to add on.

When she had a crush on her latest (now ex) bf, she told me (in retrospect) that she was soo nervous about confronting him about it but after two weeks she built up the guts to ask him to the movies. So she seems to be the type that if she likes someone, she is willing to make a move.

And SMX, How would you suggest I make it known that I am attracted to her like that? (I am probably going to wait a few weeks (4-6) before attempting anything, if at all. Depending on her current situation with the as---I mean ex.

To be honest dude, this probably doesn't bode well for you.

She probably sees you as a friend if she confides this to you - and she doesn't think you'll get upset or jealous.

Try working on the romantic aspect in those couple of weeks.

Doesn't seem to me like she's attracted to you, dude. I wouldn't dwell on it any longer and just take your friendship for what it is. Move on to some other chix.

He’s not that much (physically) younger than me. I just happen to have a lot of experience. I admit I’m biased, I’m advising him this way because his scenario is extremely archetypal. It’d be different if it was more unique. But tons of guys go through this same exact issue. That’s why they’re sites, books, movies and god knows what else about it.

Not so fast there buddy. Of course it’s possible that she might be the type. But there’s a big difference between telling somebody you have romantic feelings towards them and just asking them to the movies. It’s not nearly as heavy and thus easier to bring yourself to do. After all, some people actually just want to hang out.

Hmmmm…usually when I want to get physical with a girl, I just test the water before hand. I usually don’t have to really say anything till were done making out or whatever because at some point of time the “I want you part” gets so obvious that saying it isn’t even necessary. Just judge her responds to your (non verbal) advances and see what you can get away with. Something you should look for:

Can you maintain eye contact without her looking away?
Can you get right up next to her without her acting oddly?
Can you even touch her without her freezing up?
Can you (playfully) grab/hold/contain her?

Basically try these out. If the light is green you’ll probably know it because she’ll probably provoke you into fucking with her. Although I should give you far warning that it’s never FULL proof, ever. One time I had a ‘friend’ in my bed and pinned down with me on top of her. She kept saying “I bet you can’t find where I’m ticklish at.” So after trying for a minute I went under her bra going at it. She didn’t do a damn thing about it, but giggle. When I got around to asking her out, she STILL put me in the friend zone.

So, I guess the best answer would really depend on the type of person she is. If she’s more reserved, level with her one on one. If she’s more on the wild side, make a move on her. Whatever you do though, don’t be dramatic with it. Though honestly, I really don’t think she’s going to go for it. If you got the hots for her that bad though, I guess you might as well try so you can confirm it though.

She told me this around a year ago when we were becoming close friends, it's not something she has told me recently. Does that fact make any difference?

Double Post:
Well basically my 'group' of friends I'm in are kinda....touchy, for lack of better words.
I know I can keep eye contact with her for awhile without her looking away, save for at art school because we are supposed to be working.
Getting next to her, yeah, we're all always in eachothers faces.
I can touch her without her freezing up, but only in certain ways
Yes, I can playfully grab her / poke her/tickle her. (though she isn't highly fond of poking)

And yes, I'm not sure if there would be that big of a chance for her to actually say yes, but I will try to keep my confidence up so it doesn't look like I've got none.
And would it really hurt to just go for it and try?

Hell no, dude! Just do it! But from what I've seen your chances really aren't that great. But just do it. WTF you got to lose?

I don't think so. Maybe you should try and investigate without getting WEIRD on her. If you can. ^_^

And yea, I don't know what she's like as a person. If you just went kamikazi on her ass and went for it, you might scare her off? I don't know, but if my best friend (who happened to be male) was professing his deep, dark secrets about how much he cares about me, unless the feelings were mutual, I would try to back away for a while and let him cool off. =/

Heres an idea

Show up at her house unannounced. Sit in her room and take your pants off before she comes in.

When she sees you - its either on or it's not. But at least you'll know.

Are there any general/telltale ways to tell if your stuckn in the 'friends zone'?

'I like our relationship as it is, let's stay friends'
'I don't want to ruin our friendship, let's stay friends'
'I don't care about your ass, let's stay friends'

You get the point...

So she has no feelings for him anymore, she told him to fuck off and that she has feelings for someone else now. lol

Double Post:
And based off of the fact she hasn't told me of that (she just said she had a problem), and on a conversation with a friend on the topic, some things hint towards it being me, others hint towards it being someone else.
Reasons leaning yes
Ex 1: After telling a friend that I had feelings for her (needed to get it off my chest)
"well, that's quite interesting, seeing as how things are working out..."
REasons leaning no
Ex 2:and even after she's dealt with (Name Erased) it'll be teh "I don't know what he thinks of me, I don't know if he'll return my feelings"

Ohhh the painful truth.
Get off your ass and in hers.