Suggestions for a vehicle?
 

I've always been a bicyclist, but I think it's about time I got myself a vehicle... Problem is, since I've been biking all my life I know jack-crap about cars and such. So hey, why not ask here and see what you guys think?

I'm trying to find something fairly cheap. I'm a 20 year old guy, living alone so no help from parents or such. I do work full-time, but I don't make terribly much. I figure insurance will probably be a pretty big problem considering my age and gender, but don't really know how bad it'll be. I don't plan to drive very much, I'd still like to bike as often as possible, but it's a little tough to run (most) errands, give people a ride, etc. on a bicycle.

So, I've been thinking a bit about it, and I'm pretty much debating between a motorcycle or a car. I figure I'd enjoy a motorcycle from all my experience biking, and motorcycles are usually cheaper than cars, not to mention lower insurance and higher gas mileage. They're a little less pleasant in poor weather and winter, but hey, it's not much of a change from a bicycle. Problem, though, is that an accident can seriously screw me and/or my passenger over. I'd like to think I'm fairly alert from years of riding a bicycle, but it's still a very real threat. Also, unless I get a sidecart of some kind, a motorcycle won't have terribly much more carrying capacity than my bike does.

A car will easily solve the carrying problem, and it's quite a bit safer than a motorcycle, but it would cost much more. Between the car itself, gas, and insurance, I worry if I'll be able to afford it.

So what do you guys think? Should I take a hit to the wallet to go the safer, surer route with a car, or do you think I could manage with only a motorcycle? I really don't need a vehicle for much, mostly just being able to get around beyond my bicycling range, give my girlfriend a ride instead of her always driving me around (I'm hoping to get it in time for our anniversary) and simple things like shopping, laundry, that kind of stuff.

Also, what kind of brands/makes/models/whatever would you recommend for either? Any experiences you think would be handy for a first-time buyer?

And while you're at it, can always prolong the topic by talking about your first vehicle. At the very least it'll give me an idea of what I'm getting myself into.

Why don't you say what kind of daily commute you face and where you live in the country. A motorcycle is pretty useless for a good part of the year anywhere it drops into the 40s at night.

Also, for insurance, I don't know about the states, but aren't motorcycles usually a lot more expensive to cover? Can easily cost $5000 CND a year here for somebody in their 20s. You may want to verify that. Though if you actually meant a scooter instead, that'd be a different story, lol.

You need to tell us what's your budget, too, since that ultimately decides everything...

Right, that probably would help, hm? I live in New Mexico, for the most part really clear, not much rain, and gets plenty hot but doesn't get too cold. Wind can be a pain sometimes, though.

Like I said, I don't mind the poor weather too much because I'd be braving the elements regardless on a bicycle, y'know?

My work's only about 5 miles away since I moved closer recently, I'll usually catch a bus up there and bike home. So that's not much of an issue. But I live downtown and there's not much for groceries, or general household stuff very close by, so it'd be handy to have a vehicle for that and other typical errands, or for getting to family gatherings or such on the other side of town. I've been getting by on a bicycle alone for years, and I probably still could, but I figure it's about time I get something of my own instead of bumming a ride when I need one.

Motorcycles are way cheaper than cars to insure, and definitely not $5000. That's way to expensive. I drive a motorcycle, and to insure my 350cc Suzuki costs approximately $250. A great deal for someone who's in their late teens/early twenties, where money is a big deal. However, if you purchase a motorcycle that's 400cc +, the insurance rate does go up significantly, almost $600-800$ I believe.

And it's not that bad a vehicle to drive all year around. Just make sure you get the appropriate clothing, gear, etc. Apparently, and wind screen and leg covers lower wind chill and do a great job maintaining your body temperature for those chilly days on the road. So in my opinion, unless you find a beater car or a hell of a deal, I would recommend you consider purchasing a decent motorbike.

Hm, I could be wrong, but I've always heard motorcycle insurance is cheaper than cars simply because there's not as much to a motorcycle. I'll have to take a look into that. As for a scooter, while it could -potentially- be an option, I figure it has even less carrying capacity than a motorcycle. Not to mention a 6'5" guy on a scooter just doesn't seem right to me.

As for my budget, the lower the better.... I'm still figuring out my exact monthly savings since I just moved. But I've got a couple thousand to my name, no debt, and I'm in the green each month by at least a few hundred, so it's doable.

What, you kiddin'?? That just went way over my head - nowhere close to what I'd expect to pay a YEAR for insuring a motorbike. Which company do you use to insure? I just ran a quick quote with TD Insurance, and got about $2000 CND a year for a 350cc Suzuki. Lots of other factors in there as well, but $2000-5000 is what I'd usually expect. Unless you meant that as your monthly payment, which would then actually make sense.

Motorcycles will be much more expensive to insure when you account for the greater risk to the driver, and the % of serious accidents coming from motorcyclists. You're the one driving a motorbike though, so you should know the price better than me ;)

Its hard for me to give advice on purchasing cars seeing as I'm looking to buy one myself at the moment. I've a feeling we're looking at a similar price range, so I'll tell you what I've been interested in - nothing fancy, but any Honda Civic model after 1999-2000 has potential (though I'd prefer a Coupe over a Sedan). Good fuel efficiency, and relatively reliable. But... you should really also buy a used car guide to help you out, too. The 'Car and Driver' is also an excellent resource to look over.

I got a nice '93 Saturn Twin Cam. $2000. Insurance is $35 a month. It gets about 30 mpg. It's pretty sweet.

If you're going for mileage you probably want an Asian car. They're pretty good for that.

If you're looking for cheap insurance don't get anything red or a motorcycle or any type of sports car.

Stick shifts tend to be cheaper. Also, used cars. Some are pretty crappy, you just have to know your cars.

It all depends on what you want. There are a lot of options, depending on how much money you have to spend and what kind of car you are looking for. Maybe if you gave a little more details on what exactly it is you want (two seater sports car, 2+2 coupe, sedan, wagon lol, suv, motorcycle, truck, jeep, etc) we could give you better suggestions instead of just shooting in the dark.

Additional Spam:
I'm not so sure about that. The Opel Kadett and Opel GT with their 1.1L ohc engine both got better than 40mpg... this was in the 60's and 70's, carb'd engines not even fuel injected. With a fuel injection system both of those cars see greater than 50mpg.

My Opel GT (1.9L high compression engine) gets low 30's for fuel economy... and it is a sports car. If you want to see the ultimate do a search for the Opel Eco-Speedster.

If you want fuel economy get a small car with a small engine, just because it is an Asian built car does not mean it will get better mileage. The Chevy Sprint for example got better than 50mpg highway and the mid 40's for in town. The VW TDI engines all get better mpg than the Chevy Sprint with the added bonus of a great deal more torque (makes the car feel sporty :)) and it is available in a sedan so it has more space.

Right about lower insurance and better gas mileage, wrong about the bike being similar to a motorcycle, though.

Bikes you'll get at most upto 30 mph, assuming it's well-oiled and you're going downhill on a good day. On a motorcycle, you're doing anywhere between 25 and 120mph (easy to do on a sport bike) and there's nothing between you and the pavement belt-grinder below you, except the gyro force of your forward momentum.

Motorcycles have drastically different principles of physics governing them than cars. You'll be having to learn how to balance something that weighs about 3 to 6 (assuming you weigh an average of 160 lbs.) times as much as you do between your legs without dropping it whenever you're not moving. Shifting and braking can also be tricky on a motorcycle, because you need to maintain that same balance between throttle/clutch that you do in a car, except you're also trying to use your body weight to control the movement of the cycle and keep a sharp eye out for traffic (cars that outweigh you by, at minimum, a 5:1 ratio) all at the sametime. Braking too quickly will send you into a skid, or just launch you off the saddle and into anything that would be within an 120 degree forward arch of your position.

It really all depends on what your goals are for owning this vehicle. If it's strictly for transportation purposes, I'd say fuck it and get yourself an old volkswagen beetle with the flat 4 in it. You can lighten the shit out of it, you can either modify the flat four 8 ways from sunday or completely ditch the engine all together and go with an electric conversion kit. It'll be an assload cheaper than buying any new car, if you get one before model year 1975 you won't ever worry about shit like smogging it and it'll be fucking dirt cheap to insure. There would be the issue of making the car safer, but a roll-cage and five point belts is an extremely effective and cheap alternative to other SRS options, and would only add to the comfort/drive/survivability of the vehicle.

I know a guy with a V6 from a 300z in the back of his bug. He said that it only cost him 600 dollars to have someone do the swap for him, he used an adapter so that he could use a built vw tranny. The vw weights somewhere around 2000lbs with the added weight of the engine. A stock VW type 1 would make for a great commuter car. Replace the carb with fuel injection of the later models and now you have a reliable semi-modern engine, I'm sure it could all be done (including the cost of the car) for under 3k and because of the simplicity of the design you could do all of your own repairs.

Where in NM do you live? I'm moving back to ABQ at the end of this month.

A motorcycle or scooter would be cool, but if we get snow like we did last winter, it could be bad news.

I'd go for the "fuck it, get a car" type.

Personally, I own a '95 white Honda Civic EX. Got it for about $4,500 (and this was in August of '05, so it'll be even cheaper now), it gets around 30MPG on a highway without any mods at all, it's insanely reliable (in the two years I've owned the 10-year-old car, and I've only had to do a single non-maintenance repair on the thing, and THAT was just replacing the switch for the brake pedal that turns the tail-lights on). I'm not 100% sure on the cost of insurance, since my parents pay the bill (and I give 'em 100 bucks a month to cover it, but I'm not 100% sure that's the exact cost =|), but overall, the cost would probably be a little bit less than getting a second car a few years down the road (especially if you went for the Saturn. Those cars suck.)

Yeah, you can fit literally any engine you want in there, I've seen guys drop 454s, LS1s, I've seen DOHC VTECH B18s, Vegetable oil converts, dual turbo flat four setups, everything.

Speaking of Zs and V6s, I'm building a 1972 240Z with the VG30ET out of a 1987 300ZX, also using the five speed tranny, the 230mm rear diff and we're adding water injection, new gasket, ARP main bolts and a kevlar timing belt, so we can crank the fucking boost to like 20PSI safely. It's going to weigh-in at about 2200 lbs., the V6 will allow us to further balance the weight distribution, and the engine will produce about 450 down the shaft. The total cost of this project is gonna end up being about 4k, and I'll have a car that is street legal, cheap to run (from mid-range on up, it'll be about a 60/40 mixture of fuel and water, because we'll be pushing the fuel well into detonation range, whihc is safe with water injection) and can quite easily beat anything else on the road.

Figured I would give my 2cents into this.

Firstly, I would shop around for insurance to see what kind of prices you can get. Being that you are male and under the age of 25 *in some places, the fact that you are single/married also plays a part*, and probably never insured before is really going to hurt you. How long you've had your license is also a factor.

As an example, I am turning 24 this summer, been driving for 7 years, insured the whole time, with a perfect record *no speeding tickets, collisions etc..*, and Government 404 driving training *to drive DND vehicles*, and I am still paying an arm and a leg for insurance. I've been looking at buying a used car *around 2003-2004*, and for say a Nissan Sentra/Corolla *neither of which are sports cars*, i'm looking at $180/mnth. This is Canada though, as our motorcycle prices do seem to differ by a lot *A female friend of mine pays $375 a month for hers*, as motorcycles are considered very unsafe. The golden rule i've been told is that if you are male and under 25, do not buy a car less than 5 years old.

As for the car itself, it really comes down to preference. My mechanic friend will talk your ear off about how reliable Ford's are and how much better they are than dodge etc.. oddly enough my father had nothing BUT problems with Ford's in the past. I currently drive a little 92 plymouth sundance that i bought 5 years ago for $2500. Every mechanic i talked to said how horrible of a car it was, but i've driven it for 5 years and only had to fix some seal that was 5$ to buy *it was about 3 hours of labour, but my mechanic friend did it for free*. The car now has 376,000km on it, is 15 years old and still starts when it's -40.

Basically, a lot of it has to do with luck and how the car was maintained *my 92 sundance belonged to the wife of a mechanic*. Every company has it's models that are known for reliability *well.. except mabye dodge..*, and those with a bad name.

I would stay away from the cheap cars that are catered towards the younger audience, such as the Pontiac Sunfire, Chevy Cavalier, Dodge Neon *at least any before 2001*, The older Sebrings and breez's etc, and never look at the Hyundai Tiburon *mostly insurance reasons*.. . Some well known reliable cars are the Civic,Accord,Corolla,Sentra,Protege, a few VW models, even a few of the focus, and many more.

Your best bet would to probably scope out deals around where you live, then research the cars. Check forums, consumer report also has some good reviews on cars *pre 2004 are available to the public on their site for free*, and if you do end up test driving a car, have a mechanic look at it, and checkup the history on carfax *it's a one time $30 fee, but that gives you unlimited search's for life*.

Oh, and i would go with a car over a motorcycle simply because if you are going to put out the money to give you more travel and storage ability over your bicycle, might as well go the whole way.

For transporting things, a car is a must, you can't carry a lot of things on a bike unless the bike is pulling something.

I have had good experiences buying cars, my current one is a 2005 Hyundai Elantra, and it is quite good on gas and it's not that expensive in payments.

I am however planning on selling it for a small car like a Yaris. I would LOVE to have a smartcar, but I need room to fit more then 2 people.

small cars are the way to go in terms of fuel economy, but really make sure the price is within your range weither it is a new car or used one.

Look...

This guy lives in the middle of the desert, and knows jack shit about cars.
Telling him to buy European models and do engine swaps is NOT going to help him.


MR. Nexius...

Buy a used card. Preferably around or under 50,000 miles. Make sure it is small, has 4 cylinders, working A/C, and that it is not a European brand.

Other than that, all you need to worry about is how sweet it looks, and if you can afford it or not.

Dude, we have [i] and [b] here if you wish to emphasize something (the normal function of asterisks in online writing), and you might want to consult a manual of style to find out when italics, bold, emdashes, and parentheses are used, because you seem to be using asterisks in place of all of them. Said manual may also teach you that it's better to insert an idea into the flow of your writing than to yank it out into a parenthetical clause. Let asterisks be for footnotes.

While criticism is always accepted, your post is nothing that could not have been sent as a pm. Instead, you chose to post information that has nothing to do with the topic, in what appears to be an attempt to try and publicly insult another member. I refer to people such as yourself as trolls, individuals who go around pointing out simple mistakes of others in hopes of gaining attention and recognition.

I could have sent this message as a pm, but I figured I would aid your quest for recognition by publicly posting this response. You would have a ball day over at DailyTech.


Anyways..... *oops, am i allowed to use that many periods? DAMN! Asterisks again! What cruel fate be this?!*

The type of driving you do should also play a part in your car decision. If you will be doing a lot of city driving.. something small like a echo/yaris or accent etc., will save you cash in a world of ever increasing gas prices. On the other hand, if you do more highway/cruise driving, then the slightly larger cars such as civics/elentra's offer the same fuel economy due to slightly larger engines which do not work as hard. If you go look at Toyota or Honda, the yaris is rated for about the same highway mpg as the corolla, and same with the fit and civic.

As Zephyrin pointed out, just grab a simple reliable car with descent mileage that is within your budget.

*Someone's* touchy *about their* typing style!

Whoever's asking about cars, listen to Zeph. He knows what he's talking about; there's really no point in pretending to know or care about cars if you don't. I mean, if you do then that's cool too, but you probably won't be asking for car advice in a video game forum if you actually do care about rolling fenders and can only buy premium gas.

confidential to zeph: congrats buddy

Nah, I completely admit that I butchered that post with all the asterisks, not to mention i wrote that response while in a bad mood due to only 4 hours of sleep and a headache. So I do apologize Koi, although I still stand by the argument that your post was out of place.

Second, If you know how to drive stick and do plan to drive a lot of city miles, i might suggest that you look at getting a manual transmission. Not only because of the gas savings, but also since it's one less thing to go wrong. HOw you drive the car though is always the biggest factor. My Sundance was only rated for 24/27 with it's little 3-speed transmission, but by not slamming down the gas pedal when the light turns green and actually thinking ahead, i typically get 29/34. I've seen people with heavy foots get worst mileage on their civics than i do in my sundance.

i don't really see why european models would be inferior. in terms of mileage, my 1993 audi 100s gets ~23 mpg and runs damn well for having nearly 200k miles.

so you don't go very far when you need to drive? i think getting a motorcycle - or, for even more efficiency but a drop in manliness, a scooter - would probably be the best idea. unless you need to carpool people around, then a car would be the best idea - but get a used one. new cars just aren't really worth the money.

I think generally American cars are cheaper to get repairs on than European ones, so when you're buying it used with a minimal warranty (if that), you probably won't want something that'll cost more to fix than to buy.

ah, i completely forgot about that...my car hasn't had any problems so i haven't had to pay through the ass for repairs yet. you're right, though. buying a foreign car that's got some years on it, asian or european, is probably a bad idea, beacuse of the liablity of repairing it.

So what have you come across, Nexius?

As of now, I bought me a (Manual) 2005 Coupe Honda Civic EX. I really love the 31mpg, and only pay 399 a month. But, with any new vehicle, you have to get a premium on your insurance. So truly, you definitely have to fit something in your budget.

What I REALLY wanted was a motorcyle. I love the gas mileages, they offer, and paying only 15 a month for insurance (liability) is freakin great. Of course, it's pretty sunny most of the year, but when it's raining or cold, it'll become troublesome.

Yeesh, I'm a bit late to reply, just been reading what everyone's saying... Thanks for the advice, everyone.

To Meth: I live in Albuquerque, downtown. Yeah, snow like that would definitely be a problem on a motorcycle... But that's when I just hop on the Rapid Ride anyway. Hell, I probably would even with a car if we get that much again. (Note to others: 3-4 inches in NM is what we consider bad snow)

To Zeph: Thanks for pointing that out for me. While I surely don't mind learning, I have next to no mechanical skills. I figure I can start learning hands-on once I actually have something, but in the meantime I'm pretty clueless and not too driven to read up on it all.

Well, been looking around. I figured my troubles may be possibly solved, a co-worker offered to sell me a 1994 Ford Taurus for $900. Sounded good, had cosmetic issues but I don't really care about that. Then I found out today the thing's been sitting for 6 years and, to my knowledge, that's not a very good thing for a car... So I'll still check it out, but not too much hope there.

I'm keeping an eye out for just about any cheap used cars, but considering the risks of repairs and such (Especially the cheaper I go) I might end up going with a motorcycle. If I go with a new one I've been eyeing the '08 Honda Rebel, nice little 250cc motorcycle to start out with, only $3000 brand new. I'm sure I could find even better stuff used, haven't really looked there just yet.

I'm still not entirely sure on whether to get a car or motorcycle... I like bikes and all, but a car would be alot more convenient. Just also more expensive. So for now I'm just looking out for any bargains.

And that is an excellent start. How far is your traveling? What about a moped?

Don't buy that Taurus. You wouldn't eat 6 year old bread, and you wouldn't run a car on 6 year old gas....or pay to fix what that 6 year old gas has already ruined.

Don't buy a pussy motorcycle. If you're going to buy a wimp-mobile, it might as well be something you can stuff groceries in.

I mentioned it earlier, I -could- get a scooter/moped, but that's even less carrying capacity than a motorcycle, and that's part of the issue. I want to at least be able to carry one passenger, y'know? (And I know at least some scooters can, but I assume those ones go higher in price... Haven't looked much into them)

And Zephyrin, that's what I figured. What do you suggest for a motorcycle? From what I've heard it's alot better to start with lower cc's so I don't kill myself on it (As easily, at least).

500 - 600cc motorcycle is usually a good range to learn with. Parts for motorcycles are often a lot more expensive to replace. You also need to consider that you would need good riding gear (helmet, jacket, gloves, etc) and those are not the items I'd want to go cheap on either.

What a lot of people don't realize is that not all motorcycles get great gas mileage, The Kawasaki Ninja 650R for example averages 45mpg, there are cars that get better fuel economy than that :/ it is only when you get into the motorcyles with engines 500cc and below do the mpg numbers exceed what you can see in cars.

From the sound of it though you are probably better off getting a car.

Personally I feel that if you can afford it you're really better off getting a car. Maybe look around at second hand dealerships for a good deal on them.

Its alot easier if you got big loads to carry which you might have occasionally. If thats the case all a motorcycle will do for you is let you down.

Bullshit. Unless you buy a brand-new hybrid, that's not going to happen.

VW Golf TDI and Honda CRX are two examples that come to mind that get better than 45mpg. :/ Neither of which are hybrids, one of them is from the 80's and the other has almost as much torque as a V6. The smaller bikes get anywhere from 60 - over 100mpg, which with the exception of specially built cars like the eco speedster that Opel built you just aren't going to get that kind of fuel economy with a car.

How far is your actual commute right now? If you're only driving a few miles every day then gas prices really shouldn't be that huge of a concern. I mean, the difference between 30 and 45 MPG may be 50%, but if you only have to go five miles a day, it's going to take you a pretty long time to see a worthwhile savings in gas to be worth paying more for a fuel efficient car.

Alternatively you could also look at getting a shitty cheap car for when you need to drag people and stuff places and also a scooter or moped for your daily commute to save on gas/not have to deal with a car.

How much are mopeds nowadays anyway?