Vitamins and Minerals: How much is too much?
 

Basically I'm starting to frequently exercise again. Being a prior user of whey protien, I thought I'd try something new and I was thinking of getting a weight gainer type supplement like this one:

http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp...entPage=family

But it seems pretty stacked with A LOT of stuff. I mean 2200 calories in one sitting? I remember reading how overdosing on vitamins is bad cause it wears out your kidney. If I take this stuff will it wear out my heart? I feel like I might be forcing my body to grow when it might not be able to?

Any not serious, but general health enthusiasts here that can give any insight on this? Or any suggestions for alternative powders?

How much is too much?

First of all, I think weight gainer powders are a rip off. If you can afford them though, go for it. If not, try to gradually increase the amount of food you take in until you notice you're slowly gaining weight. You do not want to gain weight fast (more than one or max two pounds a week) because the majority of that gain will be lard.

If you do get it though, you don't necessarily have to go by the serving size. 2200 calories? Yeah, the thing probably has 20 servings at most. Just split that serving into four parts and you have yourself four different meals. Don't worry about the vitamins and minerals the shit has, just read the label for any sort of warning.

Personally, I think it'd be a ton better if you started taking Whey again (drink 1-2 servings immediately after your workout), take a decent multivitamin (if money isn't too big of an issue GNC has some great multis) and try to slowly increase your food intake until you reach a point where you are steadily gaining weight. If you're a hardgainer you have nothing to lose: If you reach a point you feel "fat" at, just go back to your regular diet and you'll be back to normal in a week or so. =o

Just to give you fair warning.

There was a recent new story about a study in which men who basically overdosed on vitamins *multivitamins etc..* would have cancer spread almost 3x faster than those who didn't. While the men who took the vitamins were not more likely to get cancer, those who did simply had the cancer spread faster in other words. Probably due to, as you stated, wearing out the kidney etc...

I am still a believer in good food > supplements. I buy the normal stuff *whey protein, multi vitamins, and Creatine *, but putting more money into good food, like chicken *or tuna if the funds are low*. Creatine is another thing to look into if you want a bit more bulk, but some people just can't handle it *kidney's*, or it simply doesn't really do anything for them.

most supplements aren't proven or fda approved, so it's pretty much a placebo-like faith thing.

i stick to three things:

centrum silver multivitamins [vitamins so they WORK, and silver b/c i like uber things]

omega 3 [good for your heart, a lot of studies prove this.]

calcium [good for your bones]

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i also sometimes take ginkgo biloba and vitamin b, this is usually during my most taxing days because i believe it helps me.

i'm a big believer in having the right habits for the rest of your life, so hopefully this stuff will keep me healthy.

Why not consult a nutrionist or at the very least some sort of weight training message board?

Because we have enough members here that are bound to be able to handle most topics.
Any links to this study? These things usually have ridiculous settings. And creatine, protein, water etc. will only have a profound effect on your kidneys if you're already predisposed.

Well, those omega fats you're taking are also not FDA approved. What backs up a lot of supplements are the studies behind them. The FDA doesn't mean jack shit in the supplement world unless they're out to ban something, they can stick to approving things prescription addicts take for all I care.

Ah,, it was prostate cancer they were referring too, although the rule still applies.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...0515/20070515/
But still interesting.

You shouldn't be afraid to take multivitamins though, it basically just suggest not to overdose on them. However I still stick by good food is more a factor.

Weght gainers are only good for american football players or sports that require you to have that extra body weight.

Stick to Whey Protein and Creatine. If you want to gain weight do it through a proper balanced diet. Whey and Creatine will give you the lean atheletic muscle mass, not the ugly powerlifter muscles.

Like guyinrubbersuit is saying there are far better places on the net to ask such questions.

www.bodybuilding.com greatest website ever!

Someone was telling me that they don't take any supplements whatsoever because "vitamins ruin your body and make you more dependent on receiving them than actually doing its job of keeping you healthy."

The kicker is that this "no vitamins = healthy" guy smokes a pack of cigarettes a day and is scrawny as hell.

Yes, but there are those of us (and granted, we are few, but we exist, though you can't see us when we turn sideways) that have tried EVERYTHING and can't seem to gain a single pound. This weight gainer stuff actually looks pretty enticing to me, if taken with a "proper balanced diet" it could help me and other skinny dudes where simply taking protein supplements didn't.

Ayos whats your current diet, and exercise routine?

Lately I haven't been keeping up with it, but for a good 9 months to a year it was LOTS of carbs and protein (pasta and meat and potatoes type stuff, mostly) with 2-3 protein shakes a day, and lifting free weights every 2-3 days, in a vareity of lifting exercises.

and your still skinny, maybe you're one of those then. :eye:

People that have trouble gaining muscle mass also take testosterone boosters/supplement, but this is only advised for adults and not teens.

I've only briefly considered that. Still feel I'm too young at 20, though.

• Try and sleep 6-8 hours a day and try to keep the same sleeping hours so your body can adapt and perform at full capacity.
• Try and eat 5-8 small meals throughout the day. Even better: If you have the patience (it's worth it) count your calories per individual meal. After a week of eating this way check if you've gained or lost weight. If you've lost, add a good handful of food to each of your 6-8 meals. If you've stayed the same, a half a handful, if you've gained keep it the same. That sounds silly, redundant, whatever but it's the easiest and most logical way. People that want to gain weight have this "I'm gonna eat more meat and potatoes" mentality of pure stupidity. Try to eat well, and gradually adjust the amount you eat each time a day. This way you never overload your body with more calories than it can handle at once. I'd eat every 2-3 hours.
• Focus on compound exercises for any bodypart. Squats and presses for your quads, dumbell and barbell benches (at various angles) for chest, barbell curls for biceps, stifflegged deadlifts or heavy curls for your hams, etc. Don't spend a lot of time at the gym and DO NOT DO EXCESSIVE CARDIO. A good 30 minutes a day, three times a week is more than enough.

I gotta get out of here but I'll give you more advice if you'd like later.

Listen to Omi-Cron Kenobi, he is right on the mark on how to gain weight. I do however disagree with him on the cardio part. Increasing your heart rate burns more calories but at the same time it strengthens your heart and lungs, being physically fit isn't about how big or buff you are it is about how well conditioned your body is to do work. So unless your only goal is to get larger I would include some cardio in your workout. I'm just speaking from personal experience, I used to weigh 145 - 150lbs and I started doing strength training to build muscle, I'm now 190lbs and can't run nearly as well anymore because I didn't balance my training to include the level of cardio I needed to sustain that level of muscle.

I now run 1 – 3 miles every other day and I’ve got to say I haven’t been this healthy or fit in a long time.

I'm very fit, I don't care about how strong I am. I've got plenty of that lean muscle. I need MASS. Also, Omi-Cron, I HAVE tried the whole lots of small meals throughout the day thing, like I said I've tried basically everything. Basically, my metabolism is hyperactive due to my thyroid. If I can get that balanced, I should normalize. But, I'm interested in some of your other suggestions. Send me a PM.

Anything more than 3 protein shakes a day is overkill. Also, can you give us a estimate on average day protein and calorie intake? Just as an example, at 6' 198pounds *9-10%body fat*, i consume about 3500 calories a day and 220 grams of protein while bulking, and I use creatine. Flax seed oil is another thing I use *and forgot to mention*. And also, the kind of food you consume like stated before, plays a huge part. Stuff like chicken/tuna, rice, peanutbutter, yams, etc.. are generally food you eat to gain mass.

Some more details about you would help, such as your height/weight, age, and intake for calories/protein to give us a better idea.

MAKE A FOOD LOG. If you're not gaining weight, it's because you're not eating enough.

EAT CALORICALLY DENSE FOODS. Fast food is your friend. The feeling of fullness that keeps you from eating more has nothing to do with the calorie content.

FAT IS YOUR FRIEND. Fat contains 9 calories per gram versus 4 for protein and carbs. Fat is anabolic and delicious. Add dressing or olive oil to everything.

TRAIN HARD. The program isn't as important as how you execute it.

When I said meat and potatoes, I meant to include chicken, tuna, rice, etc in that. And trust me, I'm eating enough. I eat about two to three times as much food as everyone else I know. I could blame genetics too - my entire family is thin, including my mom, who's had 9 kids.

As for my calorie intake, no idea. I've actually intentionally tried to focus on high-calorie foods though. Protein, like I said, 2-3 shakes per day (usually 2) which was I believe 120 grams. I'm 6' 1", 125 lbs, 20 years old.

Fast food is not your friend stay away from that shit. Go with the mass gainer supplement at least that aimed at gaining mass, not clog up your arteries.

Omi-Cron Kenobi made some good suggestions, you should do high intensity exercises that promote muscle mass, like squats, benching, deadlifts, pushups. And get plenty of sleep. (look up Mike Mentzer he was a champion body builder that did his own studies in this sort of training).

You might want to look into plyometric exercises they are very good, boxers & martial artists use them, and the cast of 300 used them the results speak for themselves.

Regarding running, their is a reason why long distance runners are skinny and sprinters are bulked with muscles. Long distance running strinks your lungs, it makes them more effiecient. Sprinting requires you to take huge breathes resulting in bigger chest expansion. I mix the two when I run, jog 1minute, sprint 100m, jog 1min, walk 1min, jog 1min, sprint 100m, jog. Do this until you cant do anymore.

I heard alot of bodybuilders advise to that take 2grams of protein per pound of body weight, that might be a little excessive, so I wouldnt rely on protien shakes alone to supply you with that.

I'd also see a doctor or some sort of expert would be able to give a moree definative answer.

Hey, I have absolutely nothing against cardio. I do plenty of it myself through interval sprints like Furious here just mentioned. I even mentioned he should do, at most, 30 minutes a day a few times a week. Even fucking better would be for Ayos to do sprints three times a week, ten minutes a session. There's a world of difference between a ripped olympic sprinter and a soft looking long distance runner.

There are a ton of bodybuilders, past and present, that had this problem. I've heard shit about these people consuming anywhere between four and six thousand calories a day. THAT is the possible sacrifice you'd have to make if you felt it was worth it. There's also the problem that once you reach the weight you want you'll have to eat to maintain that bodyweight.

I'm not trying to advocate an extremely high protein diet but you gotta get at least .8 grams per pound of weight. So, with that and proper training (focus on exercises that stimulate the most muscles at once) you should be able to get somwhere. The trick to any diet or exercise plan is consistency.

Basically Ayos, it sounds like you have the body that 90% of the population would kill for. I cannot even imagine being 6'1 and only 125lbs. As Omi stated, it's gonna come down to consistency and inhaling as much food as possible. Keep up with the food mentioned, and as stated, start throwing on some olive oil and flax seed oil into your drinks. Poly and Mono fats are not only essential, but a big source of good calories and complex carbs.

If you still have issues, it might be worth your investment to see a professional nutritionist for a while and see what he/she says.

Ok. Here's my first and primary suggestion. Go get yourself over to forum.bodybuilding.com/index.php

There you will find a wealth of people who often times have good suggestions or experiences to relate (good for you, maybe not for them), as long as you don't go near the teens forum and the misc forum.

Now for my own suggestions. Take protein and multi-vitamin. It's great if you can get it through the food that you eat, but really I see it as just about an impossible task to do daily. So they really help out. For protein, ON 100% whey is the way to go. It's pretty cheap, has good taste, and it works really well. For multivitamin, Now Adam multi-vitamin for men. It's well priced and has everything you need. If you have money to burn you can take Universal Animal Pack. I say don't bother with the weight gainers until you find yourself making no gains for a while and you have everything else perfect (exercise routine and frequency, diet, etc.).

For recommended protein intake 2 grams per pound LBM is good.

About cardio. It is very true that cardio starts burning off muscle if done in a variety of bad ways. If you go too long, like more than an hour, you'll start burning off muscle. If you run too hard for too long, like sprinting for 5 minutes, you'll probably be burning off muscle. On the other hand I would recommend high intensity interval training. What you do is alternate 30 second bursts of running and sprinting. You do that for 15 minutes at maximum capacity (you should feel like falling over after 15 minutes) and this will increase your metabolism for close to 24 hours. Over this time you will burn off quite a bit of the extra energy your body may have so that you don't get fat, it will also burn off little to no muscle. The best thing, for me at least, is that it takes a third the time to accomplish either the same thing or something better. I'm short on time most of the time, so this stuff is great.

BTW, a little note. 6'1" and 125??? That's pretty low by all standards. You need to eat truck loads and work out like crazy.

There is some middle ground between the sprinters and long distance runners, which is what I am personally aiming for. Many marines are the perfect example of that, many of them are HUGE but are able to run 3 - 5 miles daily and not have any problems with it.

As others have suggested get your calorie intake stabilized at a level where you can actually gain weight. Plyometric exercises are a good way to strengthen muscle to be faster and more powerful but I wouldn't necessarily suggest you start of with this type of training considering how thin you are.

90% of the population want to look like Brad Pitt in Fight Club, not Christian Bale in The Machinist!

OP, you do not have plenty of lean muscle at 6'1" 125 lbs. Bale was 120 lbs at just over 6'. You need strength and size. They'll both come with food. There's nothing special about a weight gainer shake versus normal food. If you add 2000 calories to what you consider "enough", it won't matter where it comes from. Record your intake today, and be precise. Post it here and we'll tell you what's wrong.

Again, fast food is your friend. I'm not saying that's all you should eat, but it's great bang for your buck, and it'll make it easier to get in enough calories. Bulking isn't a long-term plan, so unless you're eating the "Supersize Me" diet, don't worry about the health aspect.

You might consider getting your stomach acid checked. You can start supplementing with Betaine HCl, gradually increasing from 200mg up to 1400mg or until you feel the "hot tea" sensation, whichever comes first. If that sounds sketchy, you can get it tested before you supplement.

You can also try supplementing with zinc in the form of ZMA.

True, but most people would love to eat all they want and not gain an ounce. Bread Pitt in fightclub is nothing natural, just hard training and excercise, which 90% of the population don't have the discipline to do.

Edit: NM, thinking of a different forum

I guess my thing against long distance running is that you see these guys that can run an hour straight a few times a week. Yet, in their ordinary lives, they run up a few flight of stairs and they're already out of breath. I think doing your cardio for short, intense periods is also a greater help as far as a type of training that can enhance ordinary areas of our lives. At least to a much greater extent than long distance running. Jogging really. A good middle ground would probably be running at a good pace for 10-15 minutes, 20 tops. But, I mean, why do all that if you can get great benefits from doing sprints like this: Spint :30 seconds, walk briskly 1:30, repeat up to four more times. Bam, the shit is done between 6 and ten minutes and you're done.

Oh hell yeah motherfucker. I've been talking about this shit to some people this last week and now youmention. ZMA is just about the only supplement I've ever taken that I felt and noticed the results almost immediately. To sum it down briefly for anyone that doesn't know, the specific mineral levels the shit gives you (you take it before you go to bed) naturally raise your testosterone. Fucking awesome stuff. I think it's the stuff Barry Bonds hid behind when he was really taking steroids.

And yeah, advocating fast food doesn't come off right but it'd be a good strategy. If he's exercising and resting well his calorie sources don't matter that much. Ideally he'd get it from better sources but 1. that takes more work 2. potentially costs more 3. can be seen as a hassle. Fast food is cheap, fast, and you don't really have to do anything other than buy it. There are also healthier alternatives he can choose at these places and ways around the dirtier calories.

:/ I think you are looking at the extremes of what distance running can be. Just something to consider is that many boxers run (really jog) for long amounts of time to increase their endurance in the ring. Endurance is just as important to strength and agility when it comes to physical fitness, but like any thing it needs to be a balance. While doing sprints is a good work out and has it benefits, it is not the same for your body as it would be if you ran for 30 - 45 minutes. I don't think it is accurate to say that you can do that work out and be BAM done with it and get the same benefits you would if you had ran for an extended period of time.

There is a big distance between steady state cardio and high intensity interval training. I believe that they both do the same thing as far as using up calories, one of the primary uses of cardio. However, I believe everyone should do both. HIIT does not build up much endurance, and low intensity steady state cardio does not build up anaerobic capacity much. Bottom line is to do both.

Boxers can also get away with it because they're not solely building a career around jogging. Jogging's probably the easiest part of their routine.

I'm not really in any condition to give your sources right now, but I know metabolically you get greater benefits from sprints than jogging, and supposedly aquire the same long distance stamina benefits. Now while all that's well and fine the original point here was what sort of cardio routine, if any, Ayos should do? Recommending someone start throwing 45 minute jogging marathons into their life, as part of their overall health and bodyweight improvement program, would probably be the sort of shit that makes someone not bother. As long as he leads a relatively active life I don't think he should waste his time and calories doing any cardio.

I actually shun jogging and running in general, due to the impact stress on joints and such. Bike riding is something I like to do, and I'm starting up my martial arts training again soon, which should definitely improve on my cardio. That, and playing basketball and tennis. <3 tennis.

That's all good shit, though it does explain why you wouldn't be gaining much, if any, weight.

Hmm, is ZMA available through supplement chains, or is it available only online?

Ayos- Sounds like lean muscle would fit better in your lifestyle than muscle bulk. Chances are even if you were to gain mass and put on some good muscle, your body would burn it in favor of longer lasting lean muscle because of the activities you take part in.

Reasons like this that I still say the human body is an amazing machine.

Well, GNC here sells it under the GNC brand so I'm sure any GNC has to have it if Guatemala does. I think the one I used in 2001 was Weider brand though.

And you're basically telling him to gain muscle, but not large amounts of it. There's no real difference in muscle between bulk and lean, unless you mean he's better off gaining some muscle without getting to the point where a lot of the "mass" weight he's gaining is also fat.

Why? Do you think I'm doing too MUCH cardio? If so, trust me, I don't actually do any of that on a regular basis. Maybe once a month :p The martial arts I would do twice a week if I started it up again.

And if you think I'm not doing enough or not the right type... elaborate?

No, no, it's just that the way you worded that made me think you were doing all that stuff on a weekly basis. You'd have to eat a whole hell of a lot than you already do if that were the case.

I basically just meant that he would have been better off just gaining the bit of muscle without worrying about the mass weight. Had he been living that type of active lifestyle *which he just said he doesn't*, then it would have been almost impossible to put on the heavy mass, as he would have just started burning the excess muscle.

Edit: I was always under the impression that lean muscle was more Type II A while Mass *Strength* Muscle was More Type II B. Hmm, hafta research into it again.

Well, that's a direction more along the lines of muscle fibers. Which, taking that into account, can be a very effective way to weight train through periodization. Check this Wiki link out for a very basic idea. Basically those fiber types give you a better understanding of how muscles work (stamina, explosive power, or a combo of both). Though the fiber composition changes from muscle to muscle, person to person.