George Lucas to make big announcement tomorrow!
 

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegrap...001026,00.html

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMG STAR WARS!!. Please more movies! Please! Make them good ones too - if you put anything remotely resembling jarjar or shit like that I'm going to hunt you down and fucking kill you before you fuck up starwars even more. So make it good! PLEASE MORE MOVIES.


DISCUSS.

With each new addition to the Star Wars Universe, I find myself going from loving it, to being indifferent. I don't care for a new film.

More likely, it'll be something akin to this old Penny Arcade.

Or perhaps it's the long-rumored Star Wars TV series.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see what comes up, and very difficult indeed to be interested in the outcome.

His announcement will be he's releasing a new DVD set of the original trilogy. with never before seen bonus features and new computer generated characters and objects that fit in seamlessly with the pre-existing film.

Is it bad of me to wish this was a movie about the old republic, aka the KOTOR storyline?

A lot of the other expanded universe stuff is crap. But the old republic stuff is sweet..

You shouldn't say something like that to the creator of the series. He brought you the original films, you know !

He's entitled to his opinion, dude.

One can make something awesome and proceed to fuck it up just as well.

I would be more welcoming to anything new in Star Wars as long as someone else OTHER than Lucas directs/writes for it.

I mean god, a Star Wars TV show would so awesome in concept, but it needs to be up to the standards of Firefly or something. I want well cheorgraphed light saber fights like the way Ryan VS Dorkman did, along with well written and developed story and characters.

Lucas did indeed created SW, which in turn inspired LOTR and various awesome geek fest media yada yada, but he's also the one who came up with alot of bad ideas (Jar Jar) and thanks to the success now has a holier-than-thou attitude. (He dismissed Sean Astin's initial praise and respect for him along with the "silly hobbit movies", and the "silly spider man" comment). Then of course the horrible writing for most of the prequels.

Not to mention that Episode 5 and 6 were directed by someone else, so in some form people are giving Lucas way too much credit than he deserves.

I have nothing to add to this request. Less Jarjar faggot shit, less episode II (this movie was wack), more episodes IV-VI, please.

I love the way you fucking people keep pointing out Jar Jar as the low point in Lucas' ideas. Jar Jar is the ewoks of the new series. He sells toys. Lucas is a horrible fucking writer. The sooner you people come to terms with this, the better off you'll be. He can't write romantic dialogue, he can't establish continuity, and he can't do anything new that's worth watching. One good back and forth between Obi Wan and Anakin in episode III does not make up for a bunch of utter crap.

I hope the announcement is that he's retiring, and letting actual writers use his universe in order to create something good. See: Clone Wars in the hands of the Samurai Jack guy.

Didn't Clone Wars have minimal dialouge is more about action and tension? Its seemed similar to Samurai Jack in that regard that its more about the camera shots, art, fight scenes than it is about the dialouge.

Then again I only saw like, one short episode...

Absolutely it was all about silence. That's Genndy's medium. George Lucas lost me a long time ago. I have the original, unfucked up movies of IV, V, and VI... I have no desire to own I, II, III or the reduxed IV, V, VI. Lucas proved it was only the lack of resources for the first movies that held him back from his vision that made the movies great. Whenever he manages to create his perfect vision, it sucks.

(?)

Thanks for that post, bro, but if Lucas can't prevent Jar Jar fucking faggot shit then who the fuck can

I'm not saying Jar Jar is good, mate. I'm saying Lucas has done WAY worse than Jar Jar. Stupid character vs ruining otherwise good characters with horrid dialogue.

You know, I used to feel the same way, but watching some of the cut scenes from episode two, and the way episode 3 turned out led me to believe there is still good in him.

It's just that, well, when character development is the first thing to hit the cutting room floor, you know somewhere along the way you have erred. =/

I think that George Lucas has SOME good ideas and concepts, he's just horrible at executing them. He DID create the original Star Wars and all that....

That and his holier-than-thou attitude may contribute to wanting everything HIS way instead of having a team and be able to bounce off ideas with each other to make a good movie. When you believe yourself to be THAT good, you would want to reject everyone else's ideas.

Oh and the whole CGI stuff caused him to go overboard to just the visual representation and not the writing behind it. Its kinda like Square Enix with their hot hot graphics, but in their latest games have very little substance to back them up. People like Lucas are topo focused on the LOOK on the movie instead of telling a good story.

Its ironic though that he tries so hard to create a beautiful world through CGI, yet when I watch the prequels they look so fake it makes it look ugly. When I watched LOTR, the scenery was true natural beauty, where as SW prequels were like plastic trees or something. Trouble is he used CGI in every single shot, instead of trying to scout for places that CAN look the way he wanted, or build some goddamn sets. Unless you're going for a stylised look throughout the movie a'la 300 or Sin City, CGI should only be used for wide shots, major action sequences or things that don't exist in reality.

I attribute that more to him making the new films and going back to fuck around with the old ones long after he'd gotten old and senile, losing whatever talent he had. I'd be willing to say that the young, clear-minded Lucas could have done something great with a second trilogy. But as a doddering old coot, we got what we got instead.

In any event, whatever he announces, let's hope he'll merely be serving as executive producer and not in any creative position.

:( If this is a movie announcement, I'm going to be pissed. Especially after he's said multiple times that he would never do another Star Wars movie. He almost ruined Star Wars for me with the prequel trilogy... however, when there's money to be made, I suppose he can't help himself.

The best thing that could happen is an Old Republic era movie/trilogy.

But I wouldn't be shocked if it was an announcement of another rerelease of the movies, either in theatres or for HD-DVD or Blu-ray, whichever one Fox is with.

So you're saying that Lucas is like the Square Enix of Movie Directors? Hmm....

A movie set in the old republic, or a movie series in the vein of Firefly are the best that one could possibly hope for, and I doubt that we would be blessed with such good fortune.

Speaking of the animated Clone Wars... *Rushes off to torrent sites*

Big announcement will be the super brand new RE-RELEASE OF THE NEWEST TRILOGY =U

Jar Jar with newly textured skin!
Interactive Jedi Dice Game! (you can't lose!)
Editing of Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher's faces onto the babies!

AND MOAR~

Just watch this be an Indiana Jones 4 related announcement.

Anyone have an idea what the announcement was about? I have seen or heard anything... :(

What was so bad about episode II?

"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent"

What wasn't? The pacing was bad, the dialogue was bad, the plotting was bad, and the acting was bad. Three out of four were directly Lucas' fault, and the fourth can probably be partially blamed on his poor direction as well.

I mean, the film features one of the clumsiest renditions of a romance ever, to the point that I'm surprised Lucas is actually married. That alone is enough to condemn the movie.

Wait. This is news to me. I thought he's been forever single and because of that he adopted kids. He's married?

"Tomorrow" is here! What's the announcement?

Ditto to all the above. Regarding the acting, he had a solid cast. Even Hayden Christensen is a fine actor who apparently surprised critics with the movie 'Shattered Glass'. He had people like Natalie Portman, Ewan Mcgregor and Christopher Lee. Only a incompetant director like Lucas can give them crappy direction. (Remember the old trilogy? "Faster, more intense" was his constant direction.) Not to mention it must have be REALLY hard to act infront of blue screen 99% of the time

While the cast of LOTR can sit on top of Edoras and FEEL the movie, the cast of Star Wars are playing pretend with a dungeon master who has no idea what the hell he's talking about, while surrounded by green.

Lucas needs to stop MAKING the movies and let someone ELSE take over.

So what is this big announcement?

I guess it was a bogus rumor. Nothing was announced. LOL. Or maybe he's waiting until the end of the "Celebration IV" event.

I heard reports that he's making two TV series. One will be Star Wars from the end of Episode III to the beginning of Episode IV. There is a lot of time in between those two titles so it doesn't seem like a bad idea. I just wonder how well it will turn out. The other TV series is a big question to me. I figured he would have made an announcement regarding Indy 4.

One is a "continuation" of the Clone Wars cartoon, except done in CGI. This one is actually being made as we speak, probably for a release early next year.

The live action series that will take place between the prequels and original trilogy has only just started pre-production (Rick McCallum stated that he sat down with Lucas only in the last two weeks to start putting the whole thing together, probably only to fix a budget), and is slated for 2009/2010.

And this is all old news. So this big announcement could be nothing.

Agreed; and as atrocious as EP. II was, I was more personally offended by Ep. III.

koji

EPIII could have been more believably realistic with the fighting, I mean you had a CG'ed character fighting a real dude and some of the spin moves the real dudes did looked so visually fake and badly timed. My example of this is I mean come on now ~_~.

EpII got a lot of flak, guess I'm glad I didn't buy it. :o

What the hell does Lucas have against LOTR?

How many of you hated Episode II based on the romance? I mean, I'm with you on the bad dialogue and all but a lot of that shit was necessary. And what if he could write great romantic dialogue? Would that excite you Deni? Would it be like the Titanic all over again? =O

And come on, Clone Wars was fun and all but the little dialogue it did have was crap. It didn't even have most (if any?) of the original voice actors. The ONLY reason it's generally well received around here is that it resembles anime, something the majority of us here love.

I don't know, I guess I can look beyond the many fuckups Lucas has made on these prequels because I just take the entire story as the hero cycle Anakin was created to follow. I mean, Lucas damn near followed Campbell word for word on that cycle, and the man considers Lucas one of his best students. So, yeah, I realize Lucas has gotten a lot older and fucks up a ton, but I know what story and message he's trying to put forth and I appreciate him for that. Even if he's a fuckup.=O

Lucas took what was, essentially a great homespun yarn (culled together from many other sources, of course) that never took itself so seriously (Han Solo was a great foil in that regard), and turned it into a bunch of pretentious drivel in a poorly scripted/filmed package.
To his credit though, the prequels made LOTS of money.

koji

Believability. In a Star Wars movie? What the fuck do you want, Robert Aldrich? Either you're utterly stupid or you don't understand the subject matter.

My point was EPIII had bad visuals. :o

As opposed to the realism of a puppet or Spider-Man swinging through the city? Get off your soapbox.

Maybe he'll announce that he's doing a prequel to Howard the Duck.

koji

Well to be fair, I was going to use spider man as a comparison, but you got me there.

Well if there still is a big announcement to be made my bet is either on Indiana Jones four or Star Wars going to Blu-ray/HD-DVD.

So was there no announcement? Not even theforce.net is reporting anything. You'd think if something just came from Lucas' mouth, people would be all over it.

EDIT: It wouldn't be Indiana Jones 4 because that's old news too. If anything, it probably would be an announcement of the films being re-released yet again in a new format.

Star Wars Blu-Ray re-re-re-re-release. The end.

Actually I have a better answer.

Compared to the fight scenes in Episode I and all the fight scenes in the original trilogy, the poor visually quality of the fights(minus the Count Dooku, Anakin vs Obi fight) in EPIII were done pretty badly. That is my opinion. One that will not change. I also do not share the displeasurement of Lucas' ability to direct. My opinion of him is a nuetral one, neither good or bad.

Really? I thought the lightsaber fights in III were pretty much the best of the six... With the exception of the awesome exchange Obi Wan and Maul have after Qui Gon gets taken out. I thought the Dooku one at the beginning was awesome, and the other two (Mace vs. Palpatine, Yoda vs. Palpatine) had factors going against them from the start but in the end wrapped up nicely.

The lightsaber exchange that really pissed me off was Anakin vs. Dooku in Ep. II.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...g/lightson.jpg

koji

How would that be a "big" announcement? Every shit is going to Blu-Ray/HD-DVD these days.

You rage against the machine about as hardcore as a kitten with a ball of yarn. Did you happen to read what you just wrote? "This is how it is - but this is the exception!"

No one cares what you think about the fights, because your opinion is neither educated nor intelligently written. Just because you have one doesn't make it valid. Next, I expect you to try and tell me the invasion of Inchon was a bad idea...

One would liken you to speaking to a wall but I think I'd get something better from the wall.

I thought the big news was that Lucas is going to collaborate once again with Spielberg to make a new animated film based on the Belgian cartoon, Tintin.

What's this whole thread really about?

Nothing, now that there was no announcement...

Talk about a fucking scam...

does the new Clone Wars trailer at www.starwars.com count?

So obviously there was no announcement... Gah! (He's getting it for this.) George Lucas is a hack and a slut. (There, I said it.) Why make an "announcement" if there were nothing to show for it? Oh I get it, its a make believe announcement to stir up sensationalism for the purpose of boosting sales in his fledgeling Star Wars empire... He obviously needs more money! What better way to increase sales in his latest Stars Wars themed toilets than make an un-announcement, stirring up the public into a maelstrom of eager Star Wars consumers?

Had he made an announcement, this is what he would've said;

"Hey. I'm George Lucas with a pubic service announcement. I am a commercial whore and you are the stupid consumer that wishes it were ME. I just wanted everyone to know that Star Wars was singularly, MY invention...as was Jesus Christ, the code of Hammurabi and chocolate breastmilk. Its true.

I mean, I am more popular than John Lennon! LOLZ. My time is important, and yours is obviously not, so listen up feeble humans!

I am coming out with a new line of Star Wars toilets which is meant to supplement my recent directorial efforts, the brilliant Star Wars Episodes I-III. Its just like any other toilet, except that it talks to you while you sit on the john! It says things such as "George Lucas is God" in 13 different languages. (including botchee.) Not surprisingly, this is the exact toilet I sat on while writing the script for the last 3 Star War's movies.

You WILL be buying this toilet, because you have no other choice. I made the prequels utterly indigestable. Don't like it? Buy the brand new Stars Wars suppositories. Don't forget that I could have you secretly killed by Chewbacca. Deal with it!

Bleh! I'm George Lucas! (The be all end all commercial whore.) And you are, the unwitting consumer."


One could only hope.

He didn't. A journalist misinterpreted material from the convention.

Stop being a jamrag.

Good work taking my post without a sense of humour. I was obviously extremely serious, and lord knows that this is all very serious business, this being Star Wars and all...

Just because I am not as big a Star Wars nerd as you are, doesn't mean that my commentary on Lucas is any less warranted. Your attempts to be an authority on the matter are fairly comical. When I, or anyone else happens to talk about your good buddy George in a tone that you don't like, you get defensive. What do you care?

Do you really think I should heed your advice and stop being a 'jamrag'? Take your own advice.

I was going to watch the History channel special on SW last night, then realized I'd rather have a hot poker jammed in my eye than listen to any sort of pontification over EPS. 1-3.

koji

Lucas is God! There are none superior. Even the worst of what he produces becomes legend.

Like any deity he has followers and those who would denounce him. As proof: with even the mere hint that he had something to say created a 3 page thread where all of us from both groups have come as one to share our thoughts.

Such is the power of Lucas.

Good work making a bad post with no humor in it. If you want something to be funny, you shouldn't open your discussions with matter-of-fact statements. Thats like reading a physics book aloud and then giving us a punchline.

Add to that I didn't even see a punchline and you have all the workings of a bad post.

Glad to see your empty snide remarks are still handy. You certainly earn your keep in Douchebag 101 class.

While thats neither here nor there, your point here is monumentally stupid for several reasons...

1.) The fact that I know more about the subject than you should denote that I have a more informed (educated, though I loathe to use that term when talking about something like this), factually based understanding of the topic. That is - Since I do know more, you know less and hence your opinion is of a lower tier than my own.

Similarly, I'm sure there are fans out there that would be able to tell me all sorts of crazy things I do not know about Star Wars. (As a general thing, those people are scary and should be approached with nothing less than a fireteam of Stormtroopers)

2.) Having an opinion on a topic does not make you bulletproof. If anything, an opinion is the singular thing above all else that SHOULD be attacked/questioned/made an example of. If your opinion was that people should lick the ground at 3 pm every day, that is your opinion - but having one does not make you intelligent.

As Harlan Ellison said, "Everyone has the right to an informed opinion."

3.) The internet is full of idiots. These idiots are the same people who scream conspiracy about Babylon 5 spinoffs being canned, Enterprise not being Star Trek enough or Firefly/Battlestar Galactica/Jericho being intelligent and/or important.

Similarly, people piss and moan about the Star Wars prequels. Nevermind that the narative in The Phantom Menace is the strongest of the three prequels - Jar Jar is in it the most! It must be terrible!

All the same people complain about the same tepid shit about the prequels. None of them bother looking at the little details in the movies - the Jedi live in an Ivory Tower (nudge nudge), The Jedi use cult indoctrinations to assimilate children (hint hint), Yoda may have perpetually lied to maintain his status on the council as his "Fear leads to anger..." is in opposition to "Trust your feelings", (wink wink).

Closer examination in the prequels gives the audience a bevy of interesting nuances, especially with The Phantom Menace - everything is bright and happy, even slaves! (They're clean and well fed and generally happy with their lifestyle.)

So shove your internet cynicism. Those of us with a functioning intelligence don't take to your baseless idology simply because you have them.

Because as an intelligent human being, I consider all forms of stupidity as a personal afront. Is it too much to ask that you chew on an idea before speaking it? As Martin Fraquhar Tupper said - "Well timed silence hath more eloquence than speech."

1.) Thats a terrible closing statement.

2.) Since you put quotes around the word jamrag, Ill tell you that its the british slang for a (used) tampon. Just so you know for future reference and so you don't have to quote it and look like an unknowing jerk.

3.) You should heed my advice because not only have I proven you wrong but I've bolstered my arguement past your apparent facilities. If you care to continue this, you're welcome to but as I see it, you have nothing to add but empty negativity.

Go back to chasing monsters up hills with your pitchfork and torches.

You're a second rate troll. Nothing more. The fact that you say that you are intelligent means very little to me and likely anyone else who realizes it doesn't take much to feign half a brain over the internet. You are far from impressive.

The fact still remains that George Lucas has lost his step since the original trilogy. Sorry. What you seem to having trouble realizing is that I was half joking in my initial post. Un-announcement or no, I appreciate the guy a lot for his sense of vision but I still think he's a douche. I guess birds of a feather flock together. :) Defend him all you want, I simply don't care.

Anyways, I'm done talking with you. You are now ignored, Troll.

So - you're insulted that I have made several points... and then you ignore everything I wrote, even though you apparently have an "opinion". Clever.

Well as much as I disagree with LeHah about the validity of the prequels (though I share his belief that Phantom has the strongest narrative), Rain you really did bitch out on this. LeHah raises some very valid points, none of which you bothered to take the time to comment on.

Still hate George Lucas' modern works, but seriously, the fact that they are so flawed gives you an endless supply of things to toss in his direction other than just calling him a troll and storming off.

1)I have made a choice not to let this thread turn into a flame war, at least on my account. It is clear that Lehah has hemorrhoids and I am not interested in finding out how much he knows about Star Wars. I simply don't care. Since you seem to take so much interest in such, you'll be the first to know if this changes.

2)I don't come on the internet to argue about Star Wars. I already spent way too much time in this thread with these last few replies.

3)I am well aware of what a jamrag is. Lehah makes a number of assumptions, none of which I care to either prove or disprove as I have much better things to do with my time. I told him I was joking, and he still can't figure it out. Assume of me and him, what you will.

4)Lehah, you win the "argument". You are indeed the axiom of Star Wars. Congratulations, armchair warrior.

Indeed I did. I must say its the smartest move I've made all day. :)

Go flex your Star Wars muscles elsewhere. I don't care.

For someone who demands to inform us that they have better things to do, you sure do come back often to tell us that.

I also enjoy the fact that you spend your time when you have better things to do making posts that completely ignore all the specific points I made in my posts. Not only did you create the topic drift - not only do you refuse to acknowledge that - but you perpetuate its state by not answering my post at all.

Congrats - you're the asshole troll you attempted to peg me as. The reason this thread exists in this state is your inability to reply to me, except in the form of empty dismissives. How about you actually STOP POSTING instead of telling us you're going to stop posting?

Alright then. I completed what was keeping me pre-occupied. I have a bit of time.

Thats arguable. I don't think I need to explain myself to you, but I'll humour myself for a bit.

At the very least, I was amused and thats all that needs to be said about it. However, this was simply an idea you used in order to rush to the offensive. I can envision you in your room, stroking your lightsaber as you defend George Lucas from "undeserved criticism". Nevermind that. You probably thought my initial comments were a potshot aimed at you, in which case you are wrong.
I am sorry you can't tell the difference between a joke and what is not a joke. Regardless, I don't know you, nor give 2 shits about you in any way, shape or form.

Had you shown any courtesy, at any point in time, I would've been willing to at least be civil in discussion. But you ARE a troll. I know very well what a 'jamrag' is. Nice job trying to be clever. (At least you were impressed.)

My bad. I wasn't aware of the fact that all comedy has to be deemed funny by you in order to be substantial or valid. You tard.

First of all, where the hell do you get off telling someone else how to tell a joke? As if there were some right or wrong way to go about doing it. The fact that you don't find my comments funny isn't at all surprising, being the humorless, George Lucas sphincter licker that you are. FYI, a joke doesn't need to fulfill any criteria in order to be funny. Humour, like opinions, is highly variable and comes in a variety of shapes and forms. This is idea is fairly simple, yet you have already displayed a predilection for not understanding it in the least. surprise, surprise (Yes, more sarcasm aimed at your lack of understanding, since you seem to enjoy it so much)

Lets see. How else can I put this...I don't care if you laughed at the joke or not. I don't require your approval.

Yea, I am sure a lot of trivial Star War's knowledge goes a long way in your make believe world, but try asking anyone if they care. Whats more is that you hold this distinction with unabashed pride, that your numerous amounts of silly facts somehow make you a better human being because of it...
Sorry to disappoint you.

However, there is nothing objective about an opinion and your "valuable" knowledge doesn't make your opinion any more important than even the slimiest plankton on the planet.

Nice disclaimer.

Now here's the kicker. You claim to know the sum of my knowledge and claim that your thoughts are therefore more valid than mine...

Tell me this. What from ANYTHING that I've posted in this thread has allowed you to witness the sum of this knowledge and come to a conclusion? Erm?

I never made the claim that any of my comments were intended to be intelligent. Then again, you have a tendency to presume a great deal beyond your capacity, don't you? ;)

Spare me.

You haven't really refuted this theory...is there a point to this sad, pathetic attempt at explaining your crotchety antics?

No, you fool. You again presume to lump me together with the object of your explicit scorn. I will let you know that Phantom Menace is by far the strongest addition to that lacklustre series that you preach so highly of. That speaks nothing of how absolutely shitty the other 2 submissions are and as it were, it certainly isn't enough to keep the greater whole of the series from being vastly infantile in comparison to the first Star Wars trilogy.

Its only tepid shit because you don't happen to agree with it. The idea that your "knowledge" somehow makes your opinion vastly superior, is again, laughable.

..."OOh's and Ahh's"...? Is that what you want? I thought it was subtextual garbage. If you are insinuating that these factors keep the validity of Star Wars philosophical premise, at groundbreaking highs, then you are obviously fairly easy to amuse. I am glad it blew you away, but I can't be bothered to care.

Interesting to whom? Oh yea, you. Which basically is enough to say that every opinion that disagrees with your own is doomed to failure. I don't have any idea how you live on a day to day basis, but given your amorous feedback in this thread, it gives me shudders to consider.

idology? No. It again, was a joke. I never claimed that anyone had to take my comments to heart. This is the difference between you and I. A joke that you neither understand nor have any predilection for laughing at, is not my problem. Sorry.

Bullshit. The whole reason this thread took the turn it did was because you opened your mouth and in an unintelligent way. If you're going to flap your gums about any subject - and rudely, I might add - don't cry foul when someone else calls you out on your bad behavior.

Thats a great peice of reasoning for a seven year old. All it is is a generic, narcicistic response. "I don't care what it meant, what I said amuses me!"

Isn't that one of the defining definitions of what you tried to attribute to me?

You're welcome to criticize the man all you want. It just happens that

1.) Yours was idiotic
2.) Yours was uninformed
3.) Yours was nothing more than a rehash of what anonymous dullards on the internet have wanted to agree on since 1999, in an attempt to make each other feel better.

If you had wanted to make an example of why the prequels don't fit the "Joesph Campbell" blueprints or how the sound mixes were terrible or any number of valid, intelligent, informed thoughts - we would not be here.

Instead, you "amused" yourself with simply having an opinion and nothing else.

I have an excellent sense of humor. Ask most anyone on the board, outside of Elixir. Its so well honed in fact, that I can tell you that your post just wasn't funny.

In your defense though, the internet has an absolutely terrible sense of humor, so if you were attempting to reel in people using that type of humor, I'm sorry for you.

You've said this before. You've made posts saying you had better things to do before. Yet you come back time and time again - even after you said I "won"! - to prove yourself nothing more than a petulant child, unable to let anything go. Did you not see the out I gave you? Or did you just have to keep spreading the shit around to satisfy some base need to make a fool of yourself?

Civility? On the internet?!

In all honesty though, respect is earned and not given. Your opening statement was terrible, had you dialed back and changed/corrected/explained yourself earlier, perhaps things would be different.

On the other hand perhaps you are not able to change/correct/explain yourself, and if thats the case, I again give you the option to just plain stop posting.

This coming from the person perpetuating their stupidity as general intelligence because its their "opinion".

I enjoy the fact that you call me a "tard" (please, spell out whole words next time. You're giving me a headache), yet I'm the troll. Mmm. Very good reasoning there.

As for the fact that your post was not funny - it wasn't. What you're doing now amounts to a stand-up comedian yelling back at his audience when he's not being funny. Its not my fault you weren't funny, I'm just telling you it as a fact.

The fact that there was no joke kind of leaves me confused about this question.

There is though. When a joke isn't funny - its being done wrong! When a joke is funny - its being done right!

See the difference there?

Now you're just jumping around a lot...

That has to be the stupidest thing said on the internet this side of 4chan.

"Humor doesn't have criteria!" is about as false a statement as "The sun doesn't have to be hot!"

No. No no no. Stop that.

Humor is a very specific thing. Even when someone may not find something funny - they can still see there is a punchline. They may not find the joke funny, but they know when to shake their head at it.

Opinion is a very general thing. You can have a million opinions on a zillion topics - and none of them can be valid. Just look at that "I'm Definitely Manga Canon" thread in The Sewers. These people have the opinion that their spiritual successors are anime characters.

Just because there are options in humor and opinion does not mean all are valid or intelligent.

But you do, as I am part of your intended audience. No one else responded to your post either, so what does THAT tell you?

I mean, if you want to come to terms on your original post, it was masturbative. It made you felt good and meant nothing to anyone else. Don't take that as terrible because a lot of internet posts are like that - but thats all it was. It didnt do anyone any good except for yourself.

I... don't know where this came from but I'll roll with it.

Had our discussion been about, say, General MacArthur's invasion of Inchon (another subject I know something about) and you made a stupid post about how he should've been removed sooner because he was a loose canon his entire career, I'd still reply to you in this way.

Simply because you have a vauge opinion on a subject doesn't mean you can equate your opinion against that of an acredited person. In this case, I wouldn't dare open my mouth to William Manchester (bless his soul) about Doug MacArthur - and similarly you shouldn't open your mouth about Star Wars when I do know more than you.

Its a simple matter of knowing more and being able to apply it to the conversation. You've added nothing but empty nonsense and when I've pointed this out, you throw in silly dismissives as if they somehow allow you a "Get Out Of Stupid Jail Free" card. It doesn't work that way because what I say sticks - and what you say certainly doesn't.

There is no disappointment on my end, thank you.

Yet... you... admit to having a large ignorance towards the subject we're talking about (at least to the extent that I know) and you keep talking about it? Oh man, you are just arrogant, aren't you? It doesnt matter what words come out, so long as you have something to say...

The knowledge isnt valuable, really - but it is in this thread, since its the subject we're talking about.

Simple deductive logic. A person who is called out on bullshit but knows something in-depth about any topic is going to defend their point with fact. Your lack of doing this shows your lack of knowledge on this subject.

Then you should not have spoken.

Why would you open your mouth if you have nothing to add? Are you that full of self-important opinion? Does your ego exceed accountable knowledge? I don't think so. Unless you're able to bring something to the perverbial table, stow it.

Persumption has nothing to do with it, as you've only replied to my points after a third party heckled you - and with utterly vapid "this is what *I* think" responses.

Yes, honeychild. This is the part of a whole statement. To take this single paragraph out of context with the rest of the statement only shows the fact you're completely unable to put things into context.

Not a surprise, given your whimsical dismissal of the prequels later in your entry.

You've not garnered anything BUT a lumping in with the internet's worst. The reason I so easily did this is because this is exactly who you are. Notice the complete lack of effort I had in making this point, earlier - and then the angry response I get to it. Striking nerves through common sense is something I'm quiet good at, don't you think?

A statement as empty as I imagine your head to be. Saying "I don't like it!" across two sentences is just repetitive; not to mention you don't even justify your opinion simply beyond having one to start with.

Okay - so you don't like it. You didn't make me THINK about your post at all, and that is why you fail.

No, its tepid shit because everyone who says that they hate Jar Jar never say WHY. They just agree with each other in some circlejerk to make each other feel validated in their weird, empty thoughts. Jar Jar is as ignorable a character as you're able to find in the prequels, as he has absolutely no (direct) effect on the original trilogy. This is directly opposed to the characterization of Anakin, but my thoughts on that are moot in this discussion at this time.

Yes, the fact that I know what I'm talking about makes my point invalid, yet somehow you talking out of your ass about nothing to no one about something you say you don't care about but still fill a page with is perfectly right-minded.

I wouldn't call you a troll - but I would call you someone who takes up far too much space to say absolutely nothing.

I know your opinion is worthless because you can't make an arguement with it. Strawmen and what have you. You may think the "subtexts" are "garbage" but if you don't justify what you think, no one is ever going to care.

I ... didn't insinuate a damn thing because I made very clear, concise points. Disagreeing with them doesn't suddenly make them vapor - they're right there in front of you and everyone else who reads them.

(f you can't be bothered to care - why in the hell are you still typing?)

I have no problem with people having opposing intelligent opinions with mine.

Then again, I also don't post in threads where I know nothing about the topic.

You've failed badly on both those counts, it seems.

I live quite well, thank you. I do my laundry, I iron my clothes, I go to my job. I do everything a person should do.

On the other hand, you say you're going to leave the thread and don't. When you come back, you say you had something else to do and couldn't be bothered - that is, until someone else pointed out your BS. You then make a long, long post based on absolutely nothing what-so-ever - just a long bunch of responses to my WORDS and not WHAT THEY SAY.

I don't think I've seen this spectacular a failure since those Marine Helicopters crashed during the Carter Administration.

And by now, we're all aware of the effectiveness of your sense of humor.

Then you should not have spoken.

It may not be your problem - but your obvious lack of any type of substance as a poster is the forum's problem, certainly.

Please, think before you type and consider if you even want to respond. There is nothing to be lost in just shutting your yap.

Wow, I never got to see LeHah's debative side until now.

Anyway, nice to hear the announcement was...SURPRISE...NO ANNOUNCEMENT!

In truth, I would like to see some of the things that happen with Luke after episode six. Yes, we all know various things from the tapes and books, but seeing it would be nice. However, the chances of that are fairly low.

I, too, would love to see some sort of adaptation of The New Jedi Order books. I know that the TV Shows are on there way (right?), so at the very least, we have something to look forward to on that front. I'm hoping that Lucas doesn't just leave the series ended there, though. Maybe some form of the Old Republic or even a small, stand-alone film about Shadows of the Empire book and N64 game (one of my personal favorites, if you ever do find it, play it) would be nice, though probably unlikely since it would re-visit the time between Empire and Jedi.

I like the Timothy Zahn series (featuring Admiral Thrawn and Joruus C'baoth), a great deal, but of course, it'd be pretty much impossible to translate those to screen.

koji

The prequels are certainly the weaker of the two trilogies - but don't let the weight of other people's ignorance weigh down your thoughts on them. Generally, if a hundred people say something is terrible - you should investigate yourself before agreeing with anything.

One of the strangest things is that Qui-Gon's spirit is in the offical screenplay book. His scene was suppose to be between where Yoda awakens from meditation and Bail Organa walks into the room at the end of Episode III. Not only that - but Qui-Gon mentions the Whills! (Something that was mentioned in the earliest drafts of the original trilogy). Hayden did much better in Episode III.

I didn't like Hayden Christianson for Episode II. I don't think he's a bad actor (go see the movie Shattered Glass, he's quite good in it) but I think that it takes a certain actor to deliver what George Lucas wants. I'm not talking verbally either, but also in terms of physical acting (which the three actors you mentioned hit the nail on the head)

Jake Lloyd is a different, trickier matter. He was, what, 8 when he made the movie? I can't blame him for not being good (because he's not) but I *can* blame Lucas and the casting director for hiring him - especially considering one of the finalists was a young actor named Haley Joel Osment.

(Personally, I find the worst offender to be Natalie Portman. On one level, she's suppose to have been a proven actress by this point - but she delivers dialouge with all the enthusiasm as someone reading the ingredients off a hot dog package. It eventually culminated in her really, really bad choking scene at the end of Episode III. Her dialouge is read as stilted and almost sarcastic, as if she speaks the english language but doesn't know what she's saying, like a first year Spanish student in high school.)

The big problem with playing a Jedi or a character like that is you have to play the character completely straight. Even Yoda, who has a humorous edge to him, has to be played completely straight - or you end up with someone whos just unbelievable.

Jackson did well with what he had. Obviously, he had more to run with in Episode III, so there was more to "look at". I was pleased with his final scene but not so much his fate as it was a little too ambiguous. (My friend next to me whispered "REDUCE INJURY!" right before Windu went out the window - a nod to the old WEG Star Wars RPG)

The thing I don't get is that the quality of writing in the prequels is about the same level as the original Star Wars (and a lot of ROTJ). I'm not sure why people continue to hound it. Lucas is obviously not Alvin Sergent or Paddy Chayefsky - but anyone who expects that is not in his right mind anyway.

The X3 compairison is pretty apt, actually. The difference is that I hope to never, ever see X3 again - while I just watched Phantom Menace for the first time in years last weekend.

He does have an abandonment issue - but you're actually thinking of an Oedipus Complex, which Anakin has in spades. He's unable to hold a healthy relationship with a woman due to his seperation from his mother at such a young age. He flips his shit when his mother dies - and then does it to Padme when she is about to be a mother herself. Cyclic and all that nonsense.

Something that was beautifully noted in Phantom Menace and later screwed with in AotC was that the Jedi were so blatantly ignorant of the galaxy around them. Here they are - peace keepers of the universe - but Qui-Gon refuses to free slaves on Tattooine? That there are slums and drug pushers on Coruscant? How are these people the righteous and benevolent judges of the Republic.

This was later changed to "We're losing sensitivity to the Force" ...and that was that. Nothing was explained except an impression that something was blocking them. What the heck was that about?

I don't think the prequels horrible, but I see them more as mediocre or slightly above that. I certainly don't believe that they're complete dogshit as some would suggest since they do bring a decent amount to the table in terms of undertones in the narrative. At first, I really didn't like them, especially the Phantom Menace, but I have since warmed up to it and grown to enjoy it.

I don't think there is much dispute there generally (then again, I don't roam around the internet that much, so I wouldn't really know who disputes what here). In RotS, he came about and delivered very well at the end when he is confronted by Obi-Wan. I just don't think I'll ever get over the "Nooooooooooooooo!" at the very end (though that wasn't Hayden).

(I think I'll have to see the Shattered Glass sometime then -- the only time I have been exposed to Christianson was the prequels.)

Hayden and Portman really didn't seem to have the proper chemistry together during their love sequences in episode two. That, and I just never got around to liking Hayden until about midway through the RotS, right around when he becomes Vader.

I loved Ian McDiarmond, especially in episode 3. I didn't like it when he went from foreboding old man to emperor. I had kind of grown to like the grandfather figure he played.

I had heard that, but I thought it was only rumor and hearsay. I think I would have really been much more on board with the prequels to begin with if it was the boy who could see dead people (and out act Bruce Willis). But, its not a perfect world I guess. However, I still couldn't stand Jake Lloyd. But, we move on.

Portman was horrid, you'll get no argument there. I remember a few people laughing at the midnight release of Episode 3 when she said "Is this how democracy ends? With thunderous applause?" or something to that affect. She is just bad, and it brings about the 'what-ifs' when we think who could have played Padme.


I was really on the fence with Jackson getting hired on as a Jedi. I thought he was alright for the time he had, definitely not as bad as the people who detract the films, but on the same token, nowhere near as good as the people who give these films un-ending praise.

Death from falling is just stupid for a Jedi of his power and magnitude. But, we can pick any movie apart. Even then, the emperor dies from a great fall in episode 6, though it could be contested that he did fall into what looked to be a reactor or something (I don't remember, I never paid much attention to what he was tossed into).

Well, for me, I forgive a lot of the writing holes in the original trilogy due to the fact that I fell in love with the characters. Though I know that shouldn't be, but its not usual for me to just look the other way unless there is some really redeeming quality about it. In this instance, Han Solo, Luke, and Darth Vader made me forget how certain things had taken a turn into a wall.

Also, ROTJ, was my least favorite in retrospect (out of the OT). Bad pacing, plot holes, but the action sequences at the end were fantastic. It is part of what I find to be problematic throughout the prequels. Like most, Empire was my favorite, with Hope not too far behind.

Most X-men fans don't ever want to see X3 again. I can't begin to mention how it disappointed me, both as a movie-goer and as a fan of the mythology. But that discussion is for another thread and another time entirely.

Thank you, I was wondering what the actual diagnosis was called.

Good question.

The Jedi in the prequels are truly a bunch of arrogant dicks with some degree of a god-complex. Either they are apathetic to the lesser, poorer people, or they just don't care altogether unless it directly affect their own well-being. Which then changes them from the benevolent rulers that they purport to be, but rather the malicious, egoistic rulers that they are.

The failure to elaborate on more significant things such as their loss in force sensitivity (or as I stated, Order 66 -- or whatever number it was) leaves me with a puzzled experience. There is definitely material there to bring about some important plot twists, but its brushed aside and never addressed.

The Jedi seem lazy, when they fully know they have lost their sight of the Sith, they don't bother putting someone on the job at least trying to un-cover the dark presence around them. Its just stumbled upon when Anakin tells Mace Windu about it. Of course by the time Mace flies out the window, it doesn't matter since the next move is to exterminate all the Jedi.

I suppose they got what they deserved in the end, to a point.

I don't get the idea that George Lucas directs the actors enough during the scene work. I watched a documentary on the original trilogy and there were many instances where Lucas basically just shouts "Action!" and expects the cast members to read his mind, the dialogue and the main gist of the scene exactly as he intends. There was quite a bit of bitching about this from cast members, because of this. :D

While he seemed to do well enough in the original trilogy, this is actually one of my real gripes about George Lucas directing of episodes I-III. He had phenomenal acting talent and seemed to have squandered a fair part of it.

The original actors in the original Star Wars were young, unrealized and overall hungry! They were really into their roles and they had a lot of fun becoming and developing their characters realistically. Its so easy to value the original Star Wars due to the fact that these relationships were so well developed. I think that is the main difference between the 2 sequels and a large reason why the second trilogy doesn't work for me. The way the characters approach each other simply seems unnatural. (Especially the romance between Anakin and Padme, BARF!)

The relationships of the characters seems very cold and forced. This is particularly terrible due to the fact that the love story is supposed to be a large part of the storytelling. Since the sincerity of these types of relationships sell a rather large chunk of the 'human matter' in storytelling, good chemistry and direction likely means the difference between a decent movie that inhibits a positive and natural human emotional response, and one that reaches for the stars...and takes us with them.

I believe that indifference and failure best describe the relationship between cast members in I-III. The amount of acting "talent" in I-III dwarfs the original. Therefore it seems to me that George Lucas can be blamed for not giving his actors the resources they need to create a believable relationship.

In his defense, some things are out of the hands of the director.
From the outside looking in, Hayden Christensen would apparently be a good role for Anakin based upon his ability to do well in the 'anxious, troubled teenager' role. (Case in point, role of Sam in 'Life as House') However, it seems that he, like Natalie Portman, overacted in a majority of scenes. However, the role of a directors is to work with the strengths of the actors and tailor them minutely to the character being portrayed. If the documentary was an indication of how Lucas approaches each scene, these acting failures will be attributed to George Lucas direction...or lack thereof.

I completely agree with you that Padme is a bore. Her conversation skills are clearly infantile but then again, so is the dialogue. Portman didn't have much to work with.



I agree that Jake Lloyd is rather blank and vacuous...but Haley Joel Osment? That kid scares the shit out of me. He would've been perfect for that role, now that I think about it. I believe it was considered that he was too old at the time of the movie.

Which writing are you referring to? Are you referring to the storyline, the dialogue, the characters?

I think there is a rather obvious reason why Lucas originally skipped episodes I-III before making Star Wars: A New Hope and the sequels that followed it. The bread and butter of Star Wars lies in the original trilogy. Lucas himself has said that the writing of the original trilogy was far superior to the recent episodes. Since he wasn't sure whether or not he would get another shot at directing a film of this scope, he made the wise choice of picking the stronger of the two. The choice served him well.

Meh. One of the other reasons I dislike George Lucas is due to the fact that he forfeited the intent behind the originals and all of the magic that made them to try to save save the vast plothole discrepancies of episodes I-III.

I felt teabagged after witnessing episodes I-III. :D

People who don't do as they say and don't reply to posts directed at them are not welcome in this thread.

Its fine for us to to harp on each other's posting technique and knowleddge/lack of knowledge and weighted sense of opinion earlier. I've moved on and feel no need to continue to weigh down this thread with senseless bickering over who is right or wrong.

However, I actually make an effort to bring the real discussion, Star Wars, to the forefront and now you'll have no part of it. This is just another way of you admitting that your argument wasn't all that strong to begin with.

Your post above was going well Rain. But you remind me of a guy in a fistfight that wants to stop fighting and yells "stop, no more" and then punches the dude in the face as he retreats. Stop being passive aggressive.
While the "only anakin, palpatine, yoda and obi wan remaining means balance was brought" theory is kinda fun, it's unrealistic to believe Order 66 completely wiped out the Jedi... Even if it did seem they were low on available Jedi to act as generals. I believe the generally accepted explanation is that Anakin fulfilled his part inthe prophecy when he destroyed Palpatine and allowed Luke to live, since, as Yoda asked, Luke was the last hope of someone restarting a Jedi Order (and, hopefully, a more in sync version). "Balance" doesn't necessarily have to mean balance in the sense of Good and Bad being two necessary facts of life. More as in balance means "harmony." And the force can be in harmony when it doesn't have Dark Sith wrecking havok.

Haley Joel Osment would have been sick. Damn. And Qui Gon couldn't show up for the third film because he had broken his leg skiing around the available time. Something like that. Jesus, I'm in no condition t post right now.

I think it was he hit a deer while riding his motorcycle in Connecticut and broke his ass.

Yeah, I get my celebrity sporting accidents mixed sometimes. Probably got that one from the Sonny Bono ride. Of course, riding a motorcycle is about as much a sport as his accident was a deer hunt.

Meh. Actors these days. Mark Hamill was nearly burned alive in a car wreck before the filming of Empire Strikes Back. What'd he do? Sucked it up and had some nads, for one thing. They rewrote the script to include an explanation for Hamill's extensive facial changes.

Liam Neeson's car hit a deer and he couldn't even make a simple appearance? I don't give a shit. Bring in the cripple! Write in a scenario in which Qui Gon gets his kneecaps busted by Yoda for being a drunk Irishmen. (Yes I realize the irony of such a statement) Let Qui Gonn roam around in a wheelchair, stabbing people's eyeballs out and stomping assholes. That would've made Episode III at least worth watching.

It is not a fight that I started and I simply was letting him know that I wasn't in the mood. At first I was indifferent to taking this thread seriously but I have a slight inclination towards both distraction and anger if provocation occurs. Simply, the guy was itching to make an attack on what he considered to be an "unfair" opinion that he didn't happen to agree with and then started becoming rather peevesome.

He threw a cheap shot and I took my time reciprocating in turn. Its nothing more profound than that, I'm afraid.

You can be spouting 100% wisdom right now but it doesn't change the fact that you're egging him on and, potentially, provoking another round. Unless that's what you actually want, of course.

...It might be! I am sorry if it seems that I am an asshole...but I am. (Selectively of course.) I resent people who believe that they live in an imaginary bubble of inaccurate, self-inflation. I am actually a fairly reasonable person unless trifled...then I make it a habit to be a bubble popper.

Sorry if I am creating unnecessary headaches for you. I'll make an attempt to be a peacemaker in the thread from now on.

Cheers

Ryan

"I have a sneaking suspicion that if there were a way to make movies without actors, George (Lucas) would do it."--Mark Hamill

koji

You know that explicitly makes you the troll, right?


Star Wars novels, with few exceptions, are terrible. I'd just as soon the EU novels be left out of official continuity. The Yuuzhan Vong was just a retarded idea from the start. Don't even get me started on the emperor's retarded flying son with lightsabers in all his joints.

It was a highway accident immedeately after filming the pilot for "Eight Is Enough", days after Star Wars opened in theaters.

He needed plastic surgery - but its no where near as bad as the internet makes it sound.

Motorcycle, not car. Hence the extent of his injuries.

Yet you're still acting like an ambulatory cock in this thread. Stop it.

I find it very bolstering that you see your uninformed opinion as "unfair". Maybe you CAN be taught...

So you willfully trolled the thread repeatedly, despite my giving you an out three times?

Is that from the awful Dark Empire comic series? Where Luke temporarily falls to the dark side to serve this "reborn" emperor, then only to find out he was pretending the whole time?

Correction.

Dark Empire was fair.

Dark Empire 2 was bad.

Pretty much every Star Wars comic following that was terrible.

Dark Empire's the only Star Wars comic I own.
I don't even want to know what that's about.

Fine. But I still think Luke faking everyone out by not really turning to the dark side was pure shit. AND it forced KJ Anderson to restructure his story for the Jedi Academy Trilogy, which I happened to enjoy, even though that has its fair share of haters too.

I wish I had my comic here with me but wasn't it implied early on that Luke did it, like Anakin, so that he could get in a better position to destroy Palpatine's clone? The suspense lies in the audience thinking "shit, he went too far and now he actually is using the Dark side."

I love most of the books, probably because I'm such a blind Star Wars fan. The ones that were sort of trash were the Black Fleet series. Shadows of the Empire was cool though.

Yeah but that whole concept completely spits in the face of Yoda saying "once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." The comic made it seem like it's just switching it on and off, which trivialized turning to the dark side.

I for some reason enjoyed the Black Fleet Crisis. It was a departure from normal Star Wars plots, but I found it oddly refreshing. I hated the garbage by Barbara Hambly though... whatever titles she wrote.

Children of the Jedi was it? The whole Callista thing was badly handled. (I guess convos like this might as well be considered on topic here). What I didn't like about the BF series was the pacing and certain elements: Like that broad helping Luke find his mother and just fucking him off in the end. The Black Fleet being used was pretty nice though.

What Yoda says can often be seen as a contradiction.

I don't see how - since DE was released in 1991 (meaning it was probably being written in 1990), while KJA's crap was done three or four years after.

There's an interview with Anderson in one of the very early Star Wars Insiders where he says he was on the phone with Tom Veitch - author of Dark Empire - and he said that he had to change most of the beginning of Jedi Search, because Veitch planned to leave Coruscant in ruins. Dark Empire ends essentially where Jedi Search picks up.

Not only that, but in Vision of the Future, Zahn basically expresses his distate for the Dark Empire story by giving Luke lines like "yeah I was an idiot and didn't know what I was thinking."

Don't forget the Dark Empire "Epilogue" - Empire's End, where Palpatine attempts to inhabit the body of Leia's baby Anakin because all his clones are dead.

Blame LucasLicensing for allowing Veitch to do that.

Not to mention, KJA isnt exactly the most... mature of sci-fi authors. More than once he's struck back at people who (rightfully) chastize his books.

Okay, I do.

It's been years since I read the trilogy; I read Jedi Search before the other two sequels were even published... I just remember enjoying them at the time. What sort of things has he said to critics??

Man, I haven't read jackshit since 2001. It was an early book in the Yuuzhan Vong series, when Han met that weird creature friend he saved from some space disaster.

I remember when KJA wrote about Mara Jade and Lando being together, an implication anyway. Then comes Zahn again to restore respect to his character. =O

Anderson is probably the worst repeat offender of the Star Wars writers. All of his material is overblow, nonsensical and childish.

"Its not the Death Star - its the SUN CRUSHER!"
"Kyp's lightsaber is TWICE AS LONG!"
"Despite the Emperor's bigotry towards women THERES A YOUNG FEMALE ADMIRAL WORKING AT A SECRET MILITARY INSTALLATION"

Fucking UGH. Its like fanfiction except he makes money off of it.

I remember at the end of one of his books, probably one of the Jedi Search ones, it vaguely mentioned a woman secretly escaping from the Star Destroyer she was in in a losing battle. It seemed to be a loose end KJA was leaving behind to cover in another book but I never really got closure on that. I wonder if that's the Admiral you're talking about.

That was Gantoris, and he died quickly anyway.

That was mostly due to the amount of clout Tarkin had. He pulled a lot of strings to get her there, and even then she was relegated to the middle of a black hole cluster, out of the way of everything. Why aren't you complaining about Thrawn, since Palpatine had an equal bias against non-humans? Just because Thrawn kicked ass?

I'm not necessarily defending this trilogy because I love it. I don't. I just thought they were decent.


This loose end is wrapped up (kind of neatly, if I remember?) in Darksaber.

Because Zahn can actually write. He's won Nebula Awards and whatnot.

Anderson does movie adaptation novels. See the difference?

That nonhuman thing that acted as the focal point for the accumulated Jedi power to destroy that ancient Sith spirit? I vaguely remember him using it, but Kyp definitely used the lightsaber length enhancement too. Corran Horn did too later on.
Thrawn was also a bad motherfucker and the Emperor recognized him for it... Even if he was also sent out to the far outreaches of the Galaxy; only to come back and see that the Empire was no more. Though, when Palpatine comes back as a clone he does seem bothered by Thrawn having had taken over.
So it was Daala?

I wholeheartedly agree Zahn is a far superior author and storyteller. But don't complain that females are in the Imperial Navy - due to an author's bad decision, no less - and then not complain that aliens - albeit competent ones - being in the Navy is any less stupid. Just because the creator of one such character is a vastly better author than another doesn't excuse the contradiction. Besides, there are other females in positions of power in the Empire: Isard, Leonia Tavira, and Mara Jade come to mind for me right away. [/QUOTE]

That was Exar Kun - an exiled Sith Lord from thousands of years ago - I never got into that whole comic series. I kind of wish I did though, it seems pretty fascinating. Gantoris was one of Luke's first recruits; I forget which planet he found him on. They fought each other in the Yavin jungle. I honestly don't remember Kyp or Corran extending their lightsabers.[/quote]

Yeah Daala.

Well, these are all EU examples but, at the very least, Thrawn was kept at a very long distance from the core planets. No one really knew about his existence and purpose before the Emperor died. People like Mara Jade and fellow hands are a little harder to explain as far as the hypocrisy goes.

Actually, thats EXACTLY my point. One author was able to write that "exception" (Thrawn) and make it believable, while Anderson wrote it and it was just another gimick like his constant obsession with superweapons.

The contradiction is only as digestable as the author writes it. Zahn made it particularly memorable (though some of his later books were lazy) while Anderson struggled to even maintain my attention past the dust jacket.

Keep in mind though - that these are all after Zahn's original idea of Thrawn being an exception. Not to mention - he also wrote Mara Jade, whom you cite, and did a good job at that.

The fact that other such examples exist is moot as they all depend on the quality and believability of the writing - something that EU only does once in a blue moon.

Well, if your entire argument is based solely on the quality of the writing (something that wasn't explicitly clear to me until you mentioned it), then I see your point.

I haven't read the newer Zahn books. I was thinking of picking up Outbound Flight when I saw it in a bookstore once but didn't. To me there's a kind of charm about Zahn's earlier books when he references the Old Republic and you know it was made without knowledge of the prequels' story. I reread the Thrawn trilogy every few years.

Outbound Flight was probably the strongest of his post-Thrawn novels. Survivor's Quest needs to be read beforehand for full appreciation, but OF is the superior novel.

(I actually have a hardcover copy autographed by Zahn)


Agreed.

Damn, for a hundred dollars I almost got the comic Zahn wrote (autographed) for the marriage between Luke and Mara.

You guys know a place I can get a comprehensive idea of what's going on in the Star Wars story arc nowadays? Getting all the books I've missed in the last five years into this country would suck massive balls.

For $30, I got "canonized".

I also have a "tip-in plate" (Basically a sticker the author autographs for you to stick in your book) from Steve Perry (Shadows Of The Empire)

Man, that'd be a nice piece for any collection.

Funny, Shadows (the game, not the book) is what initially got me into Star Wars. Before that all I knew about Star Wars was that Luke does some bad ass shit with his green lightsaber on Jabba's skiff and that at some point Vader reveals he is his father. That's pretty much it. Once I played that game it got me curious and I watched the films, then got into the EU with SOTE which was awesome. Funny... Only been a "true" fan for ten years.

Awww Man please don't tell me you converted that sum and Zahn was in Ireland and no-one told me!!!