Virginia Tech Shooting: At least 33 Fatalities
 

I think I have an obligation to post this one, since I am a Virginia Tech Student:

Source.

I can't believe this. I don't know anybody who was part of the fatalities list, but jesus christ, why does stuff like this still happen? Luckily, I was back in my room before the big one hit. But I still don't believe this. What would cause people to do something like this?

My mom just called me about this. I thought of some of my friends that went there, and you too (since I know you're an engineer there). ;_;

Man... I still can't believe it. I'm pretty much in shock.

From what I'm hearing on CNN and by putting 2 and 2 together, it was most likely a student.

Fox is saying now atleast 32 are dead.

I'm thinking along those lines too, but that just makes it much more disturbing when I think of why a student would possibly pull something like this.

I'm curious about a couple things.

• The timeline. I didn't hear about this shooting, which started at 7:15, until about an hour ago. How did this news not get out sooner?
• 22 dead, 29 wounded according to CNN right now...why do I get the feeling that the news networks don't have the correct info on this?

It sounds like the university was attempting to keep the dorm shooting quiet at first while they had the lockdown in effect, probably in an attempt to keep people from panicking, so news stations hadn't been notified yet. A student being interviewed on CNN a few minutes ago said there were no emails or notices sent out to students either. I'd like to know why they temporarily lifted the lockdown without finding the gunman.

The death toll and number of wounded is unbelievable. I don't know anyone who went to Virginia Tech, but it's only a few hours away from here.

EDIT: According to CNN (from the Associated Press) the new total is 31 dead, 29 injured. I'm just speechless.

I would imagine that the situation is still farily chaotic down there, not to mention high winds in the region are making network linkups extremely difficult for news stations.

That's what pisses me off. I actually walked out to class at 8:00AM with no e-mail sent at the time. It was only when I had returned to find some e-mails in my inbox stating to remain inside buildings. What the hell? I didn't know there was a shooting at 7:15 until I got back around 9:00AM.

Wait... You're in school there?

I, myself, just got a phone call from one of my friends who's a professor at Academy of Arts in Los Angeles; his brother teaches at VSU. So far the general consensus seems to be 22 dead and about 32 wounded. No word yet on the who the gunman was but if history has taught me anything, Halo 2 will be blamed for this.

This is sick, the worst thing is that the number of casualties is probably going to grow since there are still a number of students in very serious condition. Bush is going to give a press conference in 90 minutes, according to CNN.

I also updated the title for the new figure of casualties.

I'm hearing that there were two separate incidents today. One at around 7-8am and then one again at 10:30 or so.

This is just from the docks manager, but he said that there were two incidents? I'm not seeing anything definitive....can anyone expand on this?

At least we know that the "terrorists" aren't just overseas and they're not just foreigners.

From what Sky are saying over here, its 31 dead. Rumours that the shooting was an Asian man, something to do with a rift between himself and his girlfriend. These are all student accounts, but, especially considering who owns Sky, i'd take them with a pinch of salt

Would it not have been wise to hold a far longer lockdown than an hour and a half? Especially considering the history of these shootings?

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,847779,00.jpg

I dunno, I guess they messed something up. The shooter is dead.

There was a shooting in a dorm this morning around 7am and then another in a classroom building across campus. It sounds like only one person was killed in the dorms, then the gunman slipped out when the lockdown was temporarily lifted after 2 hours and started shooting again. The current count is at least 31 dead and 29 injured.

Apparently the shooter was an Asian man, non-student, who shot and killed his girlfriend after having an argument with her. From there he went on a rampage, but I doubt he would've had enough ammo to kill 22 people unless the whole event was pre-meditated.

The cops were arresting all asians on-sight just to be sure, and there's some talk of there being one man being charged while another presumed gunman being dead.

Pretty weird stuff. Most of them were lined up and shot execution-style. Get ready for the Talking Heads and accompanying Palace thread. =/

Oooo, I see. Wow. He was really pissed, huh? To shoot in the dorms, go into lockdown, slip out and start shooting SOME MORE?

How strange. You'd think he'd show a little remorse after that? Or maybe he just completely lost it.

I like how people aren't 100% that the shooter is dead. (I am seeing "investigators BELIEVE the shooter is dead.")
Looks like he's definitely dead now

Aye, sorry, I should know better than to listen to Rupert Murdock

The thing I don't understand is: They get a 911 after the first shooting. Two hours later, the second shooting took place. What the hell happened during those two hours? You think there might have been two individual shooters?

As of right now, CNN says 32 dead, dozens injured. It also confirms that it was an Asian guy, and witnesses say he was looking for his girlfriend.
'The first happened at residence hall, the 2nd started in the engineering building.'

This is just... really scary. Its horrible to think about how this could happen anywhere. :(

I am keeping the news on CNN, so it's where I am getting my info.

They just played the video of the gun going off on campus from what looks to be a camera phone. That is a sick video, just knowing those bullets finished off people.

I don't know anyone from that college or state, but I feel sick watching this.

Wow this is scary stuff. I just hope video games don't get blamed again for this tragedy.

This is absolutely insane. I guess the guy just completely lost it... my prayers go out to the families. :(

The camera phone video is bone-chilling and one of the scariest things I've ever seen.... How that student had the guts to film that (even though you can tell they're terrified, due to the shaking) is beyond me. I would've ran to my room, locked the door and assumed the fetal position.

Why in the fuck is he going to give a conference on this? Who seriously gives a shit what he has to say on this? (Then again, who seriously gives a damn about what he has to say about almost anything?)

Go back to bed, Bush.

"Cameras tracked down" John Edwards to get his two cents, so if somebody wants to get a shot of John Edwards at a Farmer's Market saying what you'd expect anybody to say, I guess somebody cares about what President Bush has to say.

Remember in Fahrenheit 9/11 with the video footage of Bush sitting in the classroom with those kids right after being told what happened? He let it sink in for 7mins. Probably one of those, "holy shit" moments. Unfortunately that 7mins was too long as many expected to hear from him immediately.

I guess it's part of the job. Bad things happen, and you look to the guy in charge. You spread yourself thin as a president. Sometimes you get credit for things you do, and things you don't do (both good and bad).

My God; I just saw the camera video. I'm actually crying right now. I don't personally know anyone at VATech, but my hearts go out to everyone there.

So you think Bush shouldn't comment on this? Look, I dislike him as much as the next person, but it would be horrible if he didn't talk about this. This is the worst shooting incident in U.S. history, and you're saying Bush should go back to bed? Seriously... Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess.

Just seen the camera video myself. Pretty disturbing when I come to think of it. Can't imagine what it must have been like, and I don't really want to.

Just a shame there's still this sort of mindless violence in the world.

Don't worry, I'm sure they will.

Layers of shit indeed. This was painful to hear, and my parents called in concern about it, even though I go to Georgia Tech and not Virginia. My heart aches for all those that died.

I'm going to really hate what could be the inevitable backlash against video games.

There was a shooting at the University of Arizona nursing college where a few people were killed and several injured when I was teaching in the neighboring building and we heard he was out on the loose while I was in the middle of teaching.

I remember how absolutely terrifying that was, but I sure am glad I was able to find out about it.

I don't think he needs to feel entitled to give his 2 cents on this matter.

Seriously, what's he going to say that's going to be any different than what the collective public is already thinking? What's going to be said that we haven't even said here?

I'm not saying he needs to act like a cold and uncaring person about it, but I just think a press conference with cameras and the press asking him questions on stuff that he probably has just as much of a clue as we do is just a little unnecessary for this.

This is so insane. I was heading to Norris from my apartment this morning when our bus driver driver got a call from his radio. the Blacksburg Transit base called to all the bus drivers and told them to stay off campus or leave campus if they're there already. We were stopped at a bus stop for about 10 minutes and he let us leave because he said we wouldn't be going anywhere. At that time, the news was reporting 1 dead and a number injured.

I'm really shaken up by this. I dropped a class that I used to have at 8:00 am earlier this year in Randolph (the building across Norris where the shootings took place) and I would always go from my class in Randolph to Norris around 10:00 AM. Our bus driver reported the shootings to us around 9:45 and I'm wondering what would have happened if I still had that class and I was around that area.

I'm just really thankful that I didn't go to class early today and that I didn't have that 8:00 AM class anymore. This is so devastating and I don't even know what I feel right now. I just feel really sick.


I've been talking to my roommates and friends about this and we all were wondering about something. The shooting at West AJ took place around 7:15, but there was no e-mail until 9:20. With classes starting at 8:00, the school should have at least notified us of what happened. Since they didn't know where the gunman was, they should have told everyone to stay at home.

While they couldn't have known something like this would have happened, they should have at least told everyone not to come to class with a shooter that was still loose. I'm sure it was hectic and there were a lot of things going on, but I think they didn't handle this too well.

*sigh* This truly puts a lot of things into perspective. My mom called me from work and I've been watching the news all day trying to follow this story. It really sucks that selfish people like that can ruin so many lives. :(

Personally, I don't think there will be a major backlash aimed at video games. It is likely that some fanatic will try and take down the whole damned industry, but with Jack Thompson basically out of the picture, I don't anyone would want to follow in his footsteps. All I can do is HOPE that instead of wasting time arguing about video game violence, people will spend time debating more important things, such as gun and school safety.

Yeah, they're getting grilled about this on the press conference right now. I don't think they had too much they could have done but still the decision to lock down students ONCE they arrived at their classrooms was probably the best thing they could have done given the situation.

I don't even know what to think of this: Protocol was followed down to a "t" and already the press is already throwing accusations as if the university's president and police chief were at fault for any of this.

Guys... The blame here lies solely on Bawl's and Counter Strike, OK?

Yeah, I don't share the reporters' anger that we can see at the press conference, but my friend was in the 3rd floor of that building and he knew nothing of the incident that occurred at 7:15 in West AJ. This is two hours later and they were just taking a test and none of them knew of what had happened. Maybe I'm just angry at the whole situation and looking for someone to get angry at, but I agree with what you said about locking down after students arrived on campus.

I'm not completely angry at the administration, but what they could have done was send out an e-mail right away instead of waiting over 2 hours. Some people check their e-mails before going to class; I don't, but my roommate does. I think the students should be notified right away if someone is shot on campus whether or not the situation is under control. The thing is, the situation was not under control because they had no one in custody.

For example, what is a student checked his or her e-mail that morning before heading for an 8:00 AM class. From the residence side of campus to the academic side, it only takes about 10 minutes to walk. When I lived on campus, I would leave 15 minutes before class. If the university had sent out an e-mail right after the incident, the student might not have gone to class knowing there was a shooter on the loose and that he might still be on campus. This might have saved lives.

Last week, we had 2 bomb threats and the university was very quick in sending out an e-mail. They were also very quick with e-mails in the incident on the first day of classes this year. What happened this time?

I completely understand what you are saying devoxycontin, but I just can't help but be angry at the fact that 2 hours passed before an e-mail was sent out.

May I ask how bad the gun crisis in America must get before its dealt with? To think that classes continued on a campus after 2 people had been shot, I find that fucking insane, surely i'm not the only one?

Ok, apologies for the phrasing, I meant rampages such as these, they're becoming far too familiar at this stage

What does legality have to do with it? Legality does not negate the possibility of a "gun crisis".

Nah, I'm just wondering how you could attempt to ignore something like 2 people being shot on a college campus? Allow students to continue their day with a killer on the grounds, y'know?

Yes, as did I. From what you said, it sounded like you were saying that these rampages couldn't be seen as part of a gun control problem just because the shooters bought their weapons legally, which is a ludicrous assumption.

According to the news over here, the gunman shot himself, is that right? It is pretty strange that someone who has had two hours to mull over his first murders and still feels no remorse decides to finish himself.

My prayers go out to everyone who was a part of this, including the families of the deceased. This is terrible :(

My hometown of 20,000+ doesn't come to a screeching halt when someone gets shot 15 minutes away. I mean, what reason would they have had to believe the person that shot the people earlier was planning on going on a rampage a few hours later?

One thing I'm actually curious about is how someone not affiliated with the school was able to get into a dorm at 7:00 in the morning. Who's even awake to let the dude in?

Holy smoking crepe. ._. I still can't actually believe this has really happened.

My condolences to all the people affected and stuff.

Could someone post a link to that cell phone video?

I believe this is a bit different. The residential dorms are a 10 minute walk from the academic side of campus. Our president is making it seem like the campus is this huge city-like area. While it is a big campus, it's not so big that you're going to be completely safe from an incident if you're on the other side (as we saw today). Also, the difference between your hometown and Virginia Tech is that the administration has everyone's e-mail (students and faculty). The main issue isn't that they failed to lock down the campus (even though they should have done just that), they failed to NOTIFY us until two hours later. Students and faculty knew NOTHING of the incident even though the police had no idea where the suspect was.

I mean no offense to those I'm debating with, but please understand my anger because I was heading for the building where the shooting took place. I also had friends on the 3rd floor of that building (shooting was on the second floor). I really think they should have warned us early.

My condolences to everyone involved in this horrific event.

Strangely, I was reading about school shootings only a day or two ago, so this came as quite a shock to me. Then again, these shootings are unfortunately such frequent occurrences. The phone footage is emotive, to say the least.

This is fucked up. This shit pisses me off to no end. It's not because some retard asshole like Jack Thompson will start blaming video games even though there's a huge chance (make that 99.9%) that video games didn't inspire or "train" this asshole to go out on his killing spree. It's because they almost always end up killing themselves.

The motherfucker should have offed himself instead of killing everyone who had nothing to do with his sad pathetic excuse of a life.

I heard he was on CNN earlier saying this same shit. This doesn't surprise me one bit that he'd pull this shit. I bet he blamed video games for that Amish school shooting and that other one in Canada... Oh wait, he doesn't give a fuck about Canada!

Jaysus, so it begins

When you put it that way I guess it's easy to see where you're coming from but then I have to reiterate RR's point: They couldn't have predicted that he'd come back for second helpings and probably didn't want to send the entire campus into a panic if there was no need for it.

But then again... Widespread panic is exactly what happened. This is just a horrible situation for all involved. I don't even want to THINK about what I'd do if I were in Steger's shoes. :/

Looks like no one has the Thompson interview posted yet; not even Fox News. I'd like to see just how much of an ass he made out of himself, though it would be a nice blow to whatever's left of his dignity if he doesn't even make it onto YouTube.

Yeah, about that Thompson interview... I still think it's all hearsay until I see a transcript or hear him say it himself. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to dip that fucking scam opportunist in boiling oil but I'd like to at least get a reliable confirmation of his belligerence before (rightfully) accusing him.

The dudes apparent LJ ~

http://wanusmaximus.livejournal.com/

edit: if thats him then

http://c.photos.cx/wanus-facebook-0b4.png

Geez, he sure loves the Mosin Nagant. I wonder why he didnt bring any of those to school. I'm just curious.

Oh fuck me that's classic! Look at all those rifles! I also love how he has the inscription the night before with the wedding vows:

I do~

Also one of his groups on that facebook pic is

4th Floor West AJ.

Drat kid.

Seems like the guy went through a recent breakup from what his livejournal says.

Well, if that's him it's a fucked up tragedy. But from what I can tell he loved Ann Coulter, was vehemently opposed to Muslim terrorists and by GOD did he love his girlfriend. This motherfucker needed a lobotomy not a gun license.

If that's why he did this shit, then he's an even bigger pussy retard. Eh, he's already a stupid pussy retard for killing innocent people. Fuck this guy.

Does that really fucking matter right now? It just seems to me that having to show your ID to buy Doom 9 is a pretty insignificant reason to bitch right now. It's a shame that people die, and your first concern is whether or not your Halo 3 is gonna hit store shelves on time.

This is tragic, and I was watching it unfold on CNN's website and it seemed like the death toll shot up everytime the page was refreshed. It's terrible that things like this happen, and it's painful to think that so many lives have been turned upside down in such a short time.

http://victor645.googlepages.com/brbcopy.jpg

Quote stolen from Wojo (sup wojo)

Okay. I can see where you're coming from AkirA, however, as we have seen in some other places this evening, our favorite senator has already attacked this issue and has blamed vidya games. Again, I can see where you're coming from and I do agree, now isn't a time to be complaining about games coming out on time because of this tragedy, but I tend to also disagree that that was the poster's intention.

Just so you guys know, it has been verified that Facebook guy isn't the shooter. He made a post today about how many hits his page got (and how great his AdSense revenue will be this month) before taking down the post (breaking AdSense rules and all).

Way to ruin it Bluemikey. :argh:

Don't find an Asian to shoot the messenger!

You know... I read through that kids entries and it's all this pseudo-intellectual, holier-than-thou rantings about love and existentialism and his girlfriend (who was a somewhat attractive Asian girl) reaping the wind of his vengeance.

I don't think I need to spell this out for you guys, but if you live close to Yama or go to school with him and you suspect he's a gun-nut, you better save your schoolmates/neighbors/loved ones by reporting him to the proper authorities a.s.-fucking-a.p.!

I dunno, Yama ever say he's a Libertarian?

The Thompson hoopla is priceless. Not least of which because we have no idea who the perp was other than that he was a young asian.

No but it's always the QUIET ONES you gotta keep your eye on. :eye:

It pisses me off that the officials were saying that they couldnt confirm whether the two shooting incidents were related. Come on! A campus just happens to have 2 shootings the same day? WTF.

From what I hear now, death tolls are 33, including the gunman himself. The school's dorms supposidly automatically unlock at 7am to let anyone in, and lock again around 9 (I could have heard wrong, correct me if I'm wrong, VT students). That's how he got in.

Officials were saying that they didnt cancel classes or send students home because they thought the killings in the dorm (first killings) were a domestic dispute, an 'isolated incident' and they 'had no reason to believe that the murderer was still on campus'.

The thing that really confuses me is... really, how would they get a hold of students or professors to let them know this was happening? The school is getting all this shit for not notifying students properly. I certainly don't check my email before a morning class. I'd think that they'd have the ability to call each student in the dorms and let them know with a mechanical recording or something. Spike mentioned the buses, so I guess that was a good thing, but they could have posted Campus Safety at parking lots to tell other commuters to go home, rather than thinking that they would 'be safest in their classrooms'.

All this is what I've read and heard from CNN... the reporters just keep repeating everything over and over.

This whole situation is crazy... and heartbreaking.:(

Campus-wide email announcements are surprisingly effective. I don't know about VT, but at my university almost everyone checks their email before going to class. The few times that I've forgotten to check it and a class turned out to be cancelled there were only 1-2 other people at most who missed the announcement.

Terrible thing. Also the dude pom linked to above wasn't the shooter. He matches the shooter's profile in many ways (guns, asian, recently broke up with girlfriend, goes to VTech, and hadn't updated his lj today) but he just updated his lj. Some folks are crazy. Why would you even scream at a dead dude's profile anyway unless this event was directly related to you? The dude is still kind of crazy but he's not shoot 33 people crazy.

Thats gotta be a serious shock to log onto your LJ, and find out you apparently just got done shooting up a college and taking your own life.

As for the security system for the dorms here at Virginia Tech, I believe it's a bit more lax than other places. The doors to the dorms will only open if you have your key card. However, they are unlocked between the hours 10:00AM and 10:00PM. I would have to say he planned this out rather well. Then again, anybody who comes down and opens the door usually lets people in too, so he probably didn't need much of a key card, just waited for somebody to come down to open the door for like a morning jog or something.

I thought about that earlier. We had the same system at OSU Okmulgee. It's all pretty pointless.

In listening to the news coverage, and reading articles online, I've observed an unsettling trend toward knee-jerk stupidity. Granted, everyone is shocked and disgusted, and we're all seeking answers in our own way. Yet, the media has this nasty habit of inundating the airwaves with useless filler; they have to say something because saying nothing (due to lack of confirmed information and respect for the deceased) is bad for ratings.

"Was this attack premeditated?" - Offhand, I'd say hell yes. I don't understand how this is even a question. He chained a classroom door closed; he had chains. Not to mention multiple clips of ammunition. This isn't the sort of thing that's kept in a gym bag, alongside sweat socks, a water bottle and "Jock Jams Vol. 16", just in case a situation arises and you really wish you could take a few hostages. Of course it was premeditated.

"How could he just freely walk into a campus classroom?" - Virginia Tech's campus is public, the very definition of which is that everyone has open access to the facilities. With the thousands who come and go daily, it's nigh impossible to inspect everyone. The greater outrage would be if all basic presumptions of innocence were abandoned and every campus entrance was treated like airport security.

"How come the entire campus wasn't alerted?" - Allow me to speak as the voice of reason here, but how could anyone know that a single, isolated gunshot in a dorm would become a bloodbath, two hours later, in a random building across the campus? Is it now a matter of saving ourselves from all liability that we need to incite widespread paranoia at the first sign of trouble? If a smoke alarm goes off, should all buildings be evacuated for fear of a potential arsonist? In all reality, it probably took that first couple hours for campus security to confirm that there'd been an early morning gunshot, at which point there was nothing to prove a subsequent assault would occur. A cautionary e-mail and advisory to all dorms was a sensible reaction. It's only in hindsight that we know it was inadequate. Nobody fucked up. Nobody dropped the ball. We're simply not all psychics.

"Was the gunman shot or did he kill himself?" - I fail to see the direct relevance of this question. The end result is the same: he's dead. I suppose the only reason it's asked is so the media knows whether it can call into question the efficacy of the police who responded to the scene. If the police shot him, why did it take so long for someone to act? If he killed himself, who can the media scapegoat into resigning from his or her position as police chief? Either way, it's a loaded question.

"What could've been done to prevent this tragedy?" - This is a completely ludicrous question that's been asked on television umpteen times already. Nothing! Nothing could've been done within plausible reason to stop this. It's unsatisfying but true. People, especially those close to the victims, will expect changes to be made so that these things aren't repeated elsewhere. I don't know what they expect that won't result in systematically converting our nation into a police-state. Crazy people do crazy things; this is why they're considered crazy. Trying to predict the actions of the imbalanced is futile. Enacting safeguards that restrict and punish the innocent only serves to erode what few basic freedoms we have left. All the metal detectors and security cameras in the world won't stop a determined assailant. I say it's better to go about life as normal than trying to change our surroundings in capitulation to our fears.

"This was a gruesome act of terrorism." - A fantastic, knee-jerk reaction by an over-sensationalist media. This man was not a terrorist. He was a jilted lover and a obsessive whackjob. This wasn't an act of political or religious significance; he wasn't trying to make a profound statement to the world. He was angry and wanted others to suffer too. The media has become too quick to latch onto the term "terrorist" to describe anyone commiting a damaging act. Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist. The Unabomber was a terrorist. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were terrorists. These people had sociopolitical agendas. The Virginia Tech shooter, not so much. An act against one's fellow man may be terrifying, but it's not necessarily terrorism. I guess merely being "crazy" isn't so newsworthy these days.

They'll be discussing the ins and outs of this tragedy for months. They'll examine the uncanny timing, how it's only within days of the anniversaries of the Columbine High School shooting and the Oklahoma City bombing. They'll try to psychoanalyze what went wrong in the life of a spurned gun lover, as if it's that difficult to determine. Every guest expert under the sun will be called in to give meaningless testimony on the events. It's the sort of parade the networks love. Personally, I'd like to go about living my life without fear of everything that could conceivably, possibly, perhaps, someday, maybe, ostensibly kill me.

But that's just me.

My mom came in today and said, "It's pretty scary."

And I go, "Not really."

"You're not scared?"

"No."

"Why not?"

I guess it's easier for me to not feel scared despite being a college student, as my mom teaches special education at the local middle school (you know, all the 7th grade autistics and the 8th grade arsonists). On the other hand, I also intend to become a teacher myself. It sort of makes me wonder what kind of attitude we'll have in regards to school safety down the line. All I know is that by the time I become a teacher, I'll be able to arm myself on-campus.

Concerns aside, the likelihood of being shot to death at school, is still smaller than dying from a bee sting despite the recent Bee Holocaust. I've got better odds of living to 100. There's no reason to be scared. For anybody.

Edit: Oh great, they just tied in Imus with the shooting on CNN. Wonderful.

I am actually kinda scared to go back on campus. I just learned that one of my professors got killed and so did my lab TA. The civil engineering department just sent out the e-mail confirming that they died. I just feel so sick. Some people are scared of a copy-cat thing. I hope our concerns are not valid.

... Holy crap. I don't know what to say. I can't even begin to imagine what you're going through. :(

Crash - I agree with most, if not all, of what you typed (I'm still skeptical as to whether it was pre-meditated or not, but you make it sound like it definitely was). I couldn't have worded it as well as you did, even though I have similar feelings regarding the whole event. Don't get me wrong, I do feel immense sympathy for all of those tied to this event, but I think things are being unnecessarily sensationalised (a bit of a redundant statement, I know).

The accusations made against the security of the university are extremely erratic, and I also believe that they did the best that they could have done.

Overall, a horrific tragedy, but I'm not wanting to touch what the news says with a ten-foot pole, however I guess I'll have no choice in order for me to learn more about this matter.

Dateline is doing a special on this right now, if anyone cares to watch.

I understand what you're going through, but your fears are unfounded. The actual chances of a copycat shooting occurring so soon after this are hardly even worth considering. There's never been a copycat shooting occurring on the same campus in the history of school shootings, and there's nothing to suggest that it'll happen to V Tech.

I heard about this earlier at work... All i got to say about this is... I'm gonna sound selffish but I'm glad that it didn't happen to me or anyone that i know...

Hey man... I don't know anyone who it happened to either but do we have to act like unsympathetic assholes here? I'm just saying, buddy.

I guess Furby must be in a constant state of gladness.

Glad to hear that. Thanks for your comforting words, even if your post was not meant as such.

Crash's description of the cable news blather about this doesn't surprise me one bit. They're a bunch of vultures, for the most part.

But what pains me is the utter loss that was incurred because of one man's angst/selfishness/whatever. My God. It really makes me sad thinking of what the families of the victims have to go through now, because one bastard couldn't deal with his life.

My workplace had a disgruntled worker scare in February -- the entire facility was evacuated when somebody spotted a gun among the belongings of a laid-off employee. Thank goodness he didn't do anything with it, but reading about this, I've realized that it could have been far, far worse.

*Sigh*

This is NOT the way I envisoned my birthday.

Tech is about three hours from where I went to college and our college had a friendly rivarly. Furthermore, I had, and still have friends who are going there.

I still remember it. I went to bed sad about the one death, then woke up to see in big letters, thirty-three deaths. I go out and come back home and see 'biggest tragedy in recent school history'.

My condolences to all those out at tech. Thankfully, no one I knew personally had anything happen to them, but I can only imagine it might not have been the same for others...

There appear to be several. I think this may be it:

YouTube Video

My deepest condolences to everyone involved. It's a shame that I did not even know about this until my friend told me on MSN earlier, due to constant studying. I couldn't even imagine something like this unfolding and I certainly hope it never happens again :(

Oh man... that scream during the last seconds was disturbing. What could that have been? The gunman? The officers?

It was an officer running up behind the student taking the video on his cell phone. The guy was starting to go closer to the building, and an officer ran up to stop him and force him to leave the area.

Can't really say anything that hasn't been said before, but likewise my thoughts and prayers go out to all the families and friends of the victims. I never thought things would ever be worse than Columbine.

And thank you, Mr. Thompson, for using the murders of over 30 people to push along your anti-videogame agenda.:rolleyes:

In the unlikely event that I am EVER am within reaching distance of Thompson after this shit, he's gonna need a new set of teeth. Opportunistic pig. It's not even about video games, it's about the exploitation of all of those that have suffered from this tragedy.

Somehow I would not be stunned if this kid played Counter-Strike in his spare time.

Here you go then. I was actually hoping this would turn out to be hearsay, but no such luck. There are so many things that could be scoffed at here, but I think the idiocy of the video speaks for itself. It's pretty sad when a Fox News anchor sounds like the voice of reason a couple times.

YouTube Video

Read in wikipedia that the guy was a South Korean student named Cho Seung-hui. He also left a note criticizing "rich kids", "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans". Link to note.

Disturbing shit.

Wow. The biggest school shooting ever in the US... Another Columbine, except in a college setting. I'm in shock.

What I don't understand is how there was a shooting 2 hours earlier. And the school wasn't on lock down or anything. People attended class as if nothing had happened... Shouldn't there have been more security and police officers roaming the campus trying to catch the shooter 2 hours earlier?

My prayers go to those who were killed in this massacre...

The police believes that the shooter is a Korean immigrant, majoring in English. I wonder how the shooter being a minority will play out. I mean after Columbine, many schools started to crack down on bullies and video games. But now a similar incident has been done by a minority. Will this bring about a rally against racism?

Fuck, that guy really hated the world. I wonder if any of his creative writing papers will be released to the press.

Racism won't be a consideration. The victims were as diverse as the college. Young, old, American, Asian, black, etc.

Odd. There was a recent shooting in Appalachia that was committed by a Nigerian man. I forget where it was but the idea of foreign nationals committing school shootings becoming a trend is odd, especially in that kind of a locality.

Yes, I'm jumping the gun with my previous post. I really want to know what set this guy off. From what I've read so far, he seemed to be a loner. His neighbor described him as being quiet and kept to himself. He had a demented sense of thought, writing plays that were so horrendous that he was assigned to therapy. Maybe he was just depressed? Or did he just have a sick, demented mind?

I want to hear what his family has to say. They must be devastated.

If it is anything other than "we are completely fucking incompetent" then I don't give a crap what they have to say.

Think Thompson can tie Starcraft to a school shooting?

World of Warcraft has guns in it...

It's a shame that people like Thompson can't be in a gun-toting psycho's firing line rather than innocent students.

As they said earlier on in the news cycle, it was thought this was just a domestic dispute and there was no cause to lock down an entire campus because of something that happened in one of the dorms.

I mean, if you don't find a gun or the shooter from the dorms and the campus is on lockdown, how long do you keep everyone stuck where they are? It'll take a pretty darned long time to search room by room to try and find someone, and even after that there's no guarantee the person would even still be on campus.

It appears that Dr. Phil has joined in on the Jack Thompson bandwagon.

Link

Wait a minute. Phil is talking about people mimicking entertainment? Didn't he saw off his foot in a Wayans movie?

I can't believe you would say this... his parents have nothing to do with what he does. They don't have a responsibility to apologize or say anything. They are already going to have it hard enough as it is. Talking to the media is the absolute worst thing they could do.

Oh yeah. Because parenting has nothing to do with how a child turns out. At all.

Clue-ins to parenting quality should've been flagged when he wrote a play in 10 pages about a pedophilic father who murders his 13 year-old son. Any Southern Playwright could've come up with that one.

A parent can't be held responsible for all their child's issues. He's his own man, made his choices and that's that.

As much as I want to agree with you there, if you don't think his upbringing had anything to do with how this whole thing turned out you're as naive as the next Jack Thompson knob-shiner.

I just think "we are completely fucking incompetent" is a stretch. Unless they supplied the weapon and told him to massacre a bunch of people, it's not all their fault.

I'd go as high as 50/50 though.

I still can't figure out why there's a higher rate of shooting incidents happening on developed countries as compared to under-developed countries like the Philippines. I guess it's easier to purchase guns there, or something. And we all know that guns + angsty asians don't mix that well.

Well obviously. I would too, it's an embarrassment.

Plus there's always some other loon out there who wants to avenge the victims by going after people they'd like to believe contributed to their deaths.

It's like totally The Punisher's thing.

The guy apparently had some sort of thing against his father, judging by the content of some of his writing.

On a different note, I was in the Roanoke(30 miles N. of Blacksburg) Wal-Mart today and saw some employees completely reworking one of the aisles with nothing but Tech goods. Never underestimate the human ability to capitalize on death.

Guh, someone in China has decided to recreate this tragedy in glorious 3d.

So Barack Obama's outed himself as a complete shitheel:

Obama 2008!

Wow, awesome. The idiots out there are already feeding off this, trying to pull their own little stunts.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070418/..._DUzRscTNH2ocA

Basically, eight different states have had schools and universities lock down because of threatening notes (mentioning VT) and supiscious activity. My own school isnt mentioned in that, but we just had an alert put up on our website... someone wrote “Go VT is going to happen here 2” (sic) on a wall in a academic building's bathroom. That would explain why Campus Safety was prowling around the student center (I'm at work right now, student center building manager)... but if that is why, then they already fucked up, because they didnt tell me why they were there.

It just sickens me that people are trying to get a laugh out of this, or worse, doing stuff like this to get out of class.

The below is part of series of post I made against Jack "the FBI found the violent media was the common demonator" I saved this but neglected to save the first two segments. It shouldn’t be too hard to follow even thought it missing a lot of context. Sorry don’t have time to write proper post but at the same time I feel the need to counter Jack’s lies.


Just to jam yet another nail in the coffin of Jacks declaration that immersion in violent media was the sole common denominator in school shooting, as I demonstrated already the FBI and secret service caution against approach that try to explain these tragedies in terms of a single common denominator, but lets give Jack that benefit of the doubt and say that it could be consider A common denominator it still could not be consider the SOLE common denominator

Let’s have a look:
1) “Almost three-quarters of the attackers felt persecuted, bullied, threatened, attacked
or injured by others prior to the incident (71percent, n=29)” page 30 of the secret service report.
Curious that Thompson rallies against the game Bully but effective turns a deaf ear to real life bulling when he calls immersion in violent media was the sole common denominator, when quite clear this is more common against school shooters.

2) “most attackers exhibited a history of suicide attempts or suicidal
thoughts at some point prior to their attack (78 percent, n=32).” Page 31 of the secret service report.

Again another more common variable

3) “More than half of the attackers had a documented history of feeling extremely depressed or desperate (61 percent, n=25).” Page 31 of the secret service report.

And another more common variable

4) “Almost all of the attackers had experienced or
perceived some major loss prior to the attack (98 percent, n=40). These losses
included a perceived failure or loss of status (66 percent, n=27); loss of a loved one
or of a significant relationship, including a romantic relationship (51 percent, n=21);”
Page 32 of the secret service report.

If some one can explain too me how Thompson concludes that some thing with a 98 percent prevalence but something with a 60% is not a common denominator I would like too know.

“For most attackers, their outward behaviors suggested difficulty in coping with loss
(83 percent, n=34).”
Page 32 of the secret service report.

5) “Experience using weapons and access to them was common for many attackers.
Nearly two-thirds of the attackers had a known history of weapons use, including
knives, guns and bombs (63 percent, n=26).”
Page 36 of the secret service report.

How is immersion the sole common denominator here?

Now for the final nail the secret service made ten key findings regarding school shooters. (which again are not meant to be looked at in isolation from one another) Notice how immersions in violent media which Thompson says was the SOLE common denominator isn’t even one of the TEN key finding of the report:

“The 10 key findings that the authors believe may have implications for the
development of strategies to address the problem of targeted school violence are as
follows:
• Incidents of targeted violence at school rarely are sudden, impulsive acts.
• Prior to most incidents, other people knew about the attacker’s idea and/or
plan to attack.
• Most attackers did not threaten their targets directly prior to advancing the
attack.
• There is no accurate or useful profile of students who engaged in targeted
school violence.
• Most attackers engaged in some behavior prior to the incident that caused
others concern or indicated a need for help.
• Most attackers had difficulty coping with significant losses or personal
failures. Moreover, many had considered or attempted suicide.
• Many attackers felt bullied, persecuted or injured by others prior to the
attack.
• Most attackers had access to and had used weapons prior to the attack.
• In many cases, other students were involved in some capacity.
• Despite prompt law enforcement responses, most shooting incidents were
stopped by means other than law enforcement intervention.”
Secret service report page 40

What part of this implies a SOLE common denominator? A sole common denominator which is not mentioned on the list no less?

I ask no one to take my word for it so here is the link to secret service study: The secret service’s report: www.treasury.gov/usss/ntac/ssi_final_report.pdf
The FBI’s report: www.fbi.gov/publications/school/school2.pdf

Can violent media play a role in these tragedies yes, but saying that it the common denominator is like coke a cola is the common denominator in diabetes.

What, exactly, would you like to have seen from him?

At least the dude doesn't play PC games. If he did you can bet that the media would associate playing PC games with his shooting rampage.

Ignorant baboons.

Edit: Guess not judging by the noob in the video on the previous page

I guess I would've liked to have not seen him use the largest mass-shooting in US history as an awkward metaphor for outsourcing and Don Imus.

He's a politician. He'll use any opportunity he can get.

Why is that so shocking? Business as usual, man. (Not that it's RIGHT, but hey.)

Opportunity? It's the most tasteless statement that anybody could make at this point. Brushing it off as "business as usual" doesn't even begin to consider how mind-bogglingly stupid it is. He analogized losing jobs to overseas manufacturing, to being shot in the back of the head.

If 50/50 involvement in the murders of 32 people doesn't say "fucking incompetent" to you, you've got some pretty low standards.

:o_O: unnecessary. I mean the article and not you lol.

I wouldn't say that. Did you read that class assignment of his over on the smoking gun? I'd say it's the obvious point of the story, but it may not reflect his relationship with his dad. There are some anti corporatism overtones in there as well as direct jabs at the influence of media on impressionable minds.

That may be reading way too into it though. When I read the play, I coudln't take it seriously. In my head it sounded like a hardcore dark humor version of Problem Child.

My hearts and prayers go out to all those who have suffered, this is a terrible tragedy.

I really believe that these events are preventable. These psychos just need a place to vent out their rage against the world. Unless something is done, we're just waiting for the next one to go "copycat" and snap.

My suggestion is to somehow get the message out that these guys can put their anger to a noble cause by joining the army.

I think Cho Seung-hui's writing was a big cry for help. But his parents and teachers ignored. I blame them for giving him no counseling.

His teachers didn't ignore it, he was referred to campus counseling and refused to take part.

That writing is not a cry for help. That is way past the cry for help stage.

I've been looking for links to the writings, but I can't seem to find any. Maybe I am looking in all the wrong places or maybe they're not public? Reading these posts, seems like there are at least excerpts.

Can someone provide a link? Or at least tell me I am a moron, and that there are no press releases with the writings?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...071vtech1.html

That's the play. Along with the imagery, he's not a very good writer. Probably shouldn't have been a creative writing major in the first place. :P

Richard McBeef
Mr. Brownstone

Some thoughts:

• I wonder if Cho knew that the police would apprehend a patsy, allowing him to continue on with his killing spree?
• If Cho took both weapons with him to the second shooting scene, how did the police come to the conclusion that the first incident was the result domestic dispute?
• At 10:52, almost a full hour after the shootings ended, campus buildings were locked down. Unless I'm missing some bit of info (like, say, whether or not the first building locked down after the police first arrived on the scene), this seems to be a huge failure by campus and local police.
• It took VT's "leadership team" a full hour to send out an e-mail concerning the first shooting, and the second shooting happened 4 minutes afterwards. How long would it take you to to batch-send an e-mail telling all your friends your dog just died? In fact, this "leadership team" was pretty bad at communication in general.

I understand the argument that you can't predict or stop these things from happening, but, seriously. If he was that creepy a guy (which they should've figured from the outset if he didn't talk in class, stalked women, etc.) they should've pegged him a whole lot sooner. Even then, how hard is it to lock a building down when a shooting occurs AT ALL? What, are shootings at colleges really that common that you can just act like if you don't have a suspect arrested and charged with the crime but you've detained someone you consider a "person of interest", you've properly protected everyone from further danger? I like how no one instantly thought of Cho when they asked themselves in their minds, "Who do we know that's CRAZY enough to do this?" Noooo, first they think about the people who have obvious access to guns. Like possessing a gun immediately places everyone on the top of the list of suspects in every gun-related crime ever. The director of security at VT should be forced to resign.

In my mind, if there's a shooting at a school...be it a high-prestige, Division 1-A college or a urban high school, you do the same thing: put a halt to classes, lock down the crime scene, and let everyone know ASAP what happened.

Thanks, Mikey.

An outside observation: is this standard for university-level English classes? I wonder how he scored on that play. It was awful. You're right about the English major bit.

Just watching this press conference, I still don't see (actually i'm stunned at)how someone who has been committed to a mental institution and stalked 2 women could have legal access to firearms. Jesus Christ

I've had CNN on in the background nearly since this started and I have heard nothing about him actually being institutionalized. I know he was told he should seek help from his counselor, but nothing about being committed. Have I been misinformed?

Yup, late 2005 he was admitted to a mental health unit:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6568781.stm

I, like others, find it disturbing when politicians and various other loons use tragic events like this as a hobbyhorse. Pushing an agenda is downright disturbing during what should be a time of grievance. GTFO if you haven't anything to offer but your latest campaign slogan.




...School officials said Cho posted a deadly warning on a school online forum: "im going to kill people at vtech."...

The list grows of the WARNING signs present. Though, I find it difficult to place blame on anybody, it seems that the signals here were more than obvious.

Well, I feared this would happen but I knew it was kind of inevitable, given the situation.
Source article.

I was watching CNN during breakfast this morning and there was a small segment about this 19 year old student Kim Min-Kyung (a native of South Korea) who was actually packing up and leaving the campus for fear of retaliation from other students. That's the partial story.

Now... I don't know what any of these students are going through right now and I can understand a raging need to look for something or someone to pin some blame on, but this is just not the order of operations, people. It's just really disheartening to see that at a time when these students are supposed to be either mourning or in each other's moral and emotional support, some are already blindly stirring animosity.

They had already reached her current boyfriend, he was the "person of interest".

Why is that a huge failure? If there was more than one shooter, and he just killed dozens of people, wouldn't you want to protect as many people as you can?

They did peg him. He was referred to counseling. If he didn't break any laws, there's not much more you can do.

If the first shooting was a crime of passion, and 99.99% of the time, two people dead in a dorm room with no other killing at all would indicate that, then why do all that? There is no immediate danger to anyone else in a rime like that.

There isn't a single legitimate reason to think that from the first crime scene, the second would emerge 2 hours later.

Personally I wouldn't assume that the situation is safe until you've got a suspect you're certain is the culprit in custody, but that's just me. Maybe that's just hindsight talking, but that ("oh, we've got someone we believe is a 'person of interest' in this shooting, there's no way there's possibly someone else out there who is the actual suspect") sounds like an excuse and is the result of poor investigation.

Responding to this article on Reason.com, David Weigel notes:

Notice how everyone only finds warning signs of these types of psychos AFTER they've gone and killed people? I mean, people more violent in thought than that sometimes remain as harmless as a fly throughout their lives. But then people investigate the killers and then find enormous evidence of psychosis or whatnot. Could such warning signs lead to prevention or are we walking on privacy or paranoia here?

Looks like there was a court order proclaiming Cho was a "danger to himself and others." An "imminent danger." (source)That he was "mentally ill" and required treatment - which he refused. This wasn't just "counselling" I guess.

And he sent a package with video, images, and writings to NBC. This should be good.

Do ya have a source for this?

As I said it's not like they supplied the weapons and helped him carry it out. I do think they fucked up, just to some extent.

He obviously was a nut and sometimes the nuts will be nuts, no matter how many mental institutions you send them to or how many hugs you give them.

That was some fun stuff there. I wrote better in 7th grade.

They're showing some of the clips and pictures that Cho Seung-Hui sent before the massacre on MSNBC right now.

The picture of him with the guns is completely chilling, as are those plays he wrote, even if they are middle-school grade. :\

How long would you keep the school on lock down until a suspect is found and apprehended?

Edit: How would you have liked to be the USPS employee that signed off on his priority mail envelope to NBC? :(

This was made public earlier this morning but apparently the entirety of the video discs will not be released until the F.B.I. officially releases it. Lots of photos of himself with his pistols and combat knives and even a nice little shot of a table full of hollow point bullets. I actually want to read that whole "manifesto" document he sent NBC.

Haha what a fuckshit. So intimidating.

Anyone notice the uncanny vocal resemblance to Napoleon Dynamite?

Yeah, come to think of it, when you see photos of a KOREAN man and you're looking DOWN THE BARREL OF A 9MM PISTOL, naturally the first thing that comes to mind is, "Hey, look. It's that dancing guy from that nerd movie!"

Heh, I was just referring to the tone of his voice, it sounds as forced as hell

It pisses me off that the news websites are posting the stuff he sent to NBC (even though they can't resist, since they're pretty much vultures for this stuff). It's exactly what the scum planned they would do.

If his plan was to reveal to the world that he was as gigantic a loser in life as in death, then plan succeeded.

When he said "my brothers and sister that you fuck," was he referring to asianophiles? Because I think it would be pretty damn classy if part of his reasoning was all the white guys fucking asian women.

If by "classy," you mean "penis envy."

Oh, so Yama's existence partially caused all this? Fuckin' a, guys! Now we got one more reason to ban that accidental cumshot.

You actually understood him? I got tired of listening to his odd voice and changed the channel, listening about this incident for most of today is starting to piss me off. I can't wait for the next celebrity to die or Britney to do something so this can be over with.

I needs me a recharge!!

When I watch his video. All I see is an angry little boy that is not mature enough to handle what life brings. I see someone who blames other people for his troubles and someone who is mentally ill. He's just a little disturbed child that isn't worth anything. What he did was pathetic and it's unfortunate that he wasn't brave enough to face the consequences and did what a pathetic coward would do and took his life. I will spit on his grave if given the chance. I know that anger doesn't really bring that much good, but I just can't help it. That sick fuck was worthless.

Does anyone have a link to the video outside of CNN? I can NOT for the life of me get the video to play up there.

I'm Youtubing it but there's a lot of unrelated crap.

They're actually right on MSNBC. The clips are scattered throughout all their news segments but I believe that all the video that's officially been released is all there.

Spike, I can definitely understand your feelings. As I said earlier, I use to live very close to the area, and had (and still have some) friends who graduate (will gradate) there. It still is so hard to believe and now with the videos and all.

I just found this.

Is this site real or what? I've heard of the group before, but that's one of the few things I've seen that I'd be willing to classify as 'evil'.

Sorry if this was posted already.

Westboro Church is it?

Talk about a hate group, man. I'll never understand why these people are permitted to do what they do AS a hate group. I mean, really. What a poor example of Christianity they make.

Yea, I am SURE the universities are trying to get their hands on every single youth out there just to CORRUPT their precious little heads.

I like how they say those students who died will burn forever. I'm pretty sure their bible states that God will eventually go down to hell and forgive most of the sinners, no? (okay im not entirely sure, its been awile)

Maybe they should go learn about their own religion before trying to act like they know what's real and what isn't..

o Westboro u

What would we do without the Westboros constantly reminding us that God hates America 'cause we tolerate the gays?

Ah, fuck those assholes. Any sane person on this planet would never take them seriously. For all we know, each and everyone of those crazy fucks in that "organization" will be the ones going to hell.

I don't even want to watch what he's sent. I'm not interested in the sick twisted ramblings of a murderer. The amount to which this was all planned out absolutely disgusts me, and I've felt enough hatred over what has happened already, despite the fact that I have no more connection to the incident than most people do.

I agree with you, but the fact that he was mentally ill shows that it was not completely his fault. Society outcast him for being different, and being the person he was, he simply didn't know any better.

I guess the point is, I think we are all to blame for these kinds of events. This guy isn't born a killer, even if he's mentally ill. Somebody has to show him how to use the gun, and somebody has to motivate him to go out there and kill people. Whether that motivation be bullying or just plain lunacy, it is inspired by our society and our way of life. Our society is vicious against those who are different and unsuccessful, and those who fit the mold are able to gloat more so than ever before.

This psycho was not a normal human being, no normal human being would ever do such a thing. However, I think we all know that there are countless others just like him out there. People who just don't "fit in" to our way of life. Sitting on the edge, and waiting for that something to push them off. I'm just hoping that the next one (and we all know this is going to happen again) isn't anywhere nearby.

I don't buy that hackneyed sob story for one fucking second. I haven't gone on a shooting rampage myself even though, you know, I was picked on in school too. I also grew up poor as fuck, learned how to fire a gun by the age of 9, I didn't have my "cognac and vodka" or a "Mercedes-Benz" to wallow in my "debaucheries" with and my parents even managed to smack me around a couple times when I got out of line.

However... My parents, as overly religious as they are, managed to teach me to know right from wrong and to respect people's opinions and lives even when I disagreed with the way they carried on.

Can you guess which one of these valuable life lessons was probably missing from your homeboy's life?

You only get one shot at getting this one right, chief.

^The man is right. As much as we'd like to punish the stupid of society/human ways, it gets us nowhere and doesn't make us any better.

It's that kind of attitude that doesn't let us progress anywhere. We're not looking for punishment, we're looking for answers. Yes people are crazy, and some crazy people won't go shooting up others but some will. But would he have done the same thing if people reached out to him? If he had friends would he have done the same? He was utterly alone and it doesn't justify his acts by all means, I really don't think we can dismiss this as "he's crazy, he's dead and this will all be forgetten in a few weeks."

Bullying is a problem in our society, and that doesn't make everyone killers because people handle that kind of stress differently. Some people lash out and beat up others, some take guns and some people just kill themselves to end their misery. People with mental disorders probably can't distinguish in their anger what's right and wrong anymore. Is it his fault? Well yeah he did the crime, but would there have been a different outcome if he wasn't ignored?

People like to point fingers and blame video games, media, parents, administration, the killer etc etc... it's not just one thing. We aren't who we are because of just one factor. We make decisions based on our life events.

Society as vicious as it may be will never give you the right to murder 33 people. Especially those who had nothing to do with the wrongs you perceived committed against you.

I have been bullied viciously and I have bullied viciously, as far as I know no one has gone on a shooting rampage. My aunt has never sat me down to explain why shooting people is wrong either, it just became instilled by different means.

All in all, what I'm trying to say is that I hope no one shoots me because they've become disillusioned with life, or because I didn't want to be their friend in high school.

You know, that's a very good point and, chances are, the answer is no. Friends are people you talk to when you have a problem and who you can trust with said problems. If he was socially inept (which, by the look of things, he really was) this becomes a much harder problem to address but it doesn't make it an excuse to shrivel up and stop trying to socialize and then turn around and blame society as a whole for HIS complete lack of social skills or use it as a RADICAL RATIONALIZATION to MURDER these people or their peers.

This was the same argument that was used with Harris and Klebold back in '99 and the answer is still the same: If you can't/refuse to socialize that's fine. No hard feelings. Scene kids aren't your cup of tea. People react to different situations in different ways and I respect that. But don't come spraying down your peers with semi-automatic weapons because you perceived they wouldn't share sandbox space.

That's another great point. We make decisions based on our life events. If life happens to have handed us a shitty hand, we make decisions on how to play that hand. Either you fold and cash out or you throw your chips back on the table and see what kind of hand you get next. You don't flip the table over and put a .22 through every one of the other players' dome. That's too much old west cowboy for my tastes .

Keep in mind, he wasn't just bullied, he also showed signs of paranoia, possibly schizophrenia. His great aunt in South Korea said he was antisocial when he was a child. This guy had some serious wires crossed, possibly from the get-go.

First of all, his professors tried to help him. The police tried to help him. The counselors at our counseling center tried to help him. His roommates were patient with him and invited him to dinner and to parties. How was he outcast again? That's right, he wasn't outcast by others. He chose to be a loner. He chose to do what he did. NO ONE is to blame for the murders other than that sick, worthless bastard.

We're all bullied or made fun of some time in our life. None of that is worthy of ANY fault. No one is at fault but that pathetic loser.

Right, and that along with everything else most likely led to his actions. No one "normal" would go around and kill people, no matter how badly they are treated. But he obviously couldn't handle it and wanted to be a hero about it and started shooting others.

Not to draw the war in Iraq into this, but look at all the suicide bombers. We think they're all nutjobs but they must truly believe in something and hate the US enough to kill themselves and those around them. Is it because they were born crazy? Or is it because they hate the US that much? Probably both.

No one is really looking for somebody or something to blame, if Cho were still alive, he'd be on death row. But you just have to ask why these guys are out there, and why do they tend to happen predominantly in the US. We have the most criminals in prison, and we have the most gun violence (outside of war).