VGL - Split Discussion
 

Given the point of this thread is to say your concert is still on, shouldn't you call it 'New Haven, CT show still on'?

I presume you intend this thread to be dedicated to spreading bad publicity of PLAY! Of course, you'll adamantly deny it and say you're trying to help prospective PLAY! concert attendees out. It's a shame you and Jason are still at each other's throats. Doesn't do VGM as a whole much good. Sorry if I've missed something and you've suddenly become Jason's online spokesperson.

Anyway, good to hear your concert is still on and, if you ever come to the UK again when I'm not double-booked, I should be there.

That's what I was thinking when I read the main post. The title and the post didn't seem to make sense together.

Yeah, weird choice for a thread title. And honestly, I don't see why this couldn't have just gone in your VGL thread.

Not really.

Maybe you have no idea what it's like to pour your entire heart, soul and passion into something only to have it confused and written off as something else instead. Especially when that "something else" spreads lies about you for their own gain.

But I see your point in terms of the name of the thread. To be honest I didn't really think about it in detail too much. It was the first thing to come to my mind. Now that you bring up the point I can understand where you would be coming from. I was actually going to say "Play! show cancelled - VGL still on" but thought that THAT would have been taken as being mean.

If you're a mod... please feel free to change the title. I tried in the EDIT tool but can't seem to find out how to do it. I really don't care and honestly feel like you may have read into the whole thing a bit too much. No conspiracy theories here. They canceled and people think it's us. Call the thread whatever you would like... as long as the message gets across and people know not to confuse us and spread wrong information (like you yourself have even admitted to in the past... by no fault of your own... just misinformation.)


Thanks.


Tommy





Additional Spam:

Could a mod please change the title of this thread to...

"VGL New Haven show is still happening"

...or else just delete it entirely and I'll put the info in the VGL thread.

Sorry to have caused such a fuss.


T.T.

The title has been changed.

Long live Jambi.

Kairi, you twist my words and make far too many assumptions. I'm not supporting PLAY! I'm aware of the farce and was somewhat disappointed by the concert I attended. You didn't see the original thread and how the title was worded; there was a problem and most agreed.

I'll clarify my standpoint on this matter. I find it incredibly bad how childish Tommy and Jason's argument has got on both sides. I find both parties full of bullshit and wouldn't trust either of them; this isn't going to change no matter what Tommy says. I lost my faith in PLAY!, Eminence, and VGL in the thread where the argument was made public. I don't dismiss the quality of both VGL and PLAY!'s productions and feel both should satisfy fans. It's just a pity that everything has become so commercial, unprofessional, and competitive. Way to go, Tommy and Jason.

As for 'professional stride', making public the argument in a forum partly dedicated to illegal downloading seems much more unprofessional than anything Jason has done. Tommy has done everything but slander. As for being outwardly honest about it, I'm sure he's doing as many underhand things as Jason. I believe he's fake. I find the situation sickening.

I don't have much more to say on the matter. I know I'll be flamed and resented for expressing this. Whatever Tommy's response, it won't gain my trust or respect back, even if I still would like to one day attend VGL for the sake of a pleasant evening.

What evidence do you have that Tommy is just as bad as Jason? So far I've seen none, and unlike Jason, Tommy CARES about game music and fans, as oppose to making a profit and slamming the others so their concert is seen in a better light. He critisizes Play! because they're the ones full of bullshit, and he gives high praises to Eminence cause they've done a good job. Jason started the competitiveness by spreading lies, what is Tommy suppose to do? Not defend themselves? Let Jason continue to spread lies that affects VGL? Is THAT what you call professionalism?

So this forum has illegal downloads going on, but it REACHES THE FANS, which is why he came here, I don't see anything unprofessional about telling fans the truth. If Tommy said "Jason is a big fay jerk and no one should go to his lame concert" then I can see where you're going with it, but Tommy stated facts and the lies he spread, nothing more. If this went to the press during an interview? That WOULD be unprofessional, but it hasn't. Not in Tommy's case anyway. Jason claims they're a band in an article, now THAT is unprofessional.

He told us the truth so that us FANS can make a decision, is meeting those composers worth 100 dollars and supporting their BS? For some, its their only chance, so they go. For me, I have other ways to meet them, like other concerts and no performance can tempt ME to go to Play! and support their lies. Tommy didn't enforce this on us, this was my choice alone, and the fact he was able to inform us the lies and still holds the professional stride of letting us make our choices, as oppose to "Don't go they're evil" like a protest group, makes him more professional in my eyes than anyone else. Jason did the opposite thing I believe.

Unless you know more details or the full story, or heaven forbid YOU WERE THERE, I fail to see your point. You don't get flamed for expressing your opinion Maul, you get it for NOT having a good reason or evidence to back you up!

I had respect for your Mr.Maul, but you fail to show it in the last posts I've seen you in. Evidence is the key to not flaming, NOT your opinions.

Tommy? You're my hero.

The merged thread is a good example of what I don't trust about him. The declared purpose of the thread was to say VGL was still on -- an honourable purpose perhaps, but not one that deserved a separate thread. However, the title of the thread was PLAY! cancelled (or something along those lines) and some PLAY! bashing was also contained within the post. A very cunning but misjudged attempt to self-promote and degrade competitor at the same time in which Tommy assumed an unlikely role of a messenger that allowed him to cover his tracks. The conspiracy was unfortunately too transparent here and the explanation that followed did not cut it with me.

Perhaps my view on Tommy is paranoid and extreme. I have respect for Tommy that he is an actual VGM composer and produces largely enjoyable works. However, I do find it dubious that a grown man can't sort out his differences with a competitor and resorts to bashing in a public forum. I don't think he states the facts and that's all; he twists them, exaggerates them, and puts spin on them while also self-promoting, much like Yura of Eminence.

There's always an alterior motive for producers and, if you think Tommy is just trying to help those prospective PLAY! attendees, you're wrong. It's about winning publicity, getting money, and becoming the victor through dirty means. And posting here is pretty dirty, no disrespect to Gamingforce. If Tommy truly cared about the fans, he would sort out his problems with Jason, put VGM as a whole above his personal aims, and stick by his claim to 'SUPPORT THEM ALL'. Of course, he can't do that as VGL needs to sell tickets and PLAY! is viable competition that produces concerts of high quality. And, as I've always said, I'd happily attend a PLAY!, Eminence, or VGL concert if their good quality and the background isn't enough for me to turn my back on them as musical experiences.

If you have evidence of Tommy's benevolence, Kairi, why not post it? So far, though, I'm seeing slime and spin.

Dear Mr. Maul,

You are the one who should be ashamed.

Your attitude is quite alarming for someone who calls themselves a video game music fan.

I take great insult in you daring to call me "full of shit", "unprofessional", "slanderous", "underhanded" and "untrusting".

Your hateful attitude and bullshit assumptions are completely out of line. Maybe you're embarrassed because I shot down every ridiculous notion you had about our show? I'm not sure. But I believe that if anyone here today acted unprofessionally, slanderous, untrusting and full of shit... it was you.

I feel that you very much owe me an apology for the way you have treated me and the video game music community. I have always been kind in answering your false accusations but you have crossed the line here today and I will definitely have nothing to do with you from this point forward. From what others have PM'd me... this isn't the first time this side of you has reared its ugly head. You may want to consider reassessing the way you treat people in the future. There obviously seems to be some kind of disconnect and problem with the way you choose to handle certain "online" situations. I only hope that for your own good you're really not like this is "real" life.

And one other thing... I just want you to be very aware... I don't care about your trust or respect one bit. I find it a bit egotistical to try using that as some kind of carrot over my head. Negative and untrusting people who lash out in disrespect and hatred for something they clearly don't understand or can't comprehend are not the type of people who I care to associate myself with or care too much about.

You have made a mockery of my concert, this thread and video game music in general. Please do me (and probably everyone else) a favor by not responding to me or speaking YOUR BULLSHIT or YOUR SLANDER.

You sir are the UNPROFESSIONAL one. You should be ashamed of yourself.


Tommy

Have you even BEEN to the Play! Website?! That Rinoa on the big damn screen is a fake, and has been mentioned by Tommy before, witth NO EXAGGERATIONS. The concert venues they claimed to have been were also fake, I'd would have known if Play! went to Asia for instance, my mother constantly reads about up coming concerts cause she's a classical fan. In what way did he exaggerated? All I see its facts that I myself did my research and confirmed, since the majority of them came from their damn website.

Heh, looks like they just took everything down that was fake. But that Rinoa image is forever embedded in my mind... That was from Dear Friends, and last I heard from concet goers, Play! doesn't have the rights to use Square Images. I DID my research, time to do yours.

And oh great, way to piss off Tommy, Mr. Maul. How are people suppose to support your website Square Music if this is the way you view them with little evidence? You're the one who's exaggrating, not Tommy.

So Tommy didn't know how forums work, that you should always stick to the same topic to avoid a traffic of duplicate threads, big deal. You looked into it too much and now it caused this.

I didn't know the whol situation, but I'm starting to get vibes as to why you and Chris split the site.... It feels prentiuous to me that all you did so far is created a great website, and that makes you the judge as to what is professional and what is not.

Cool! I've never seen you publicly lose your temper before, though I knew it was in there. I don't see how what I say is slander, bullshit, or particularly alarming; your responses seem to be generic and unsubstantiated to me. I also don't see how I should be professional; I'm not represented anyone or anything. To me, being a video game music fan isn't about unconditionally trusting producers; it's about loving the music. And I wish all VGM concerts the best of success because it's good to spread the music to the world. Doesn't mean I like the guys behind it, though...

Honestly, I wish you the best of luck with VGL as it sounds like a great experience. However, it's a damn shame that you can't resolve things with Jason and insist on undermining each other. I don't trust you or like what you're doing here, but I haven't turned my back on VGL altogether and will attend if you come to England again. Rather not meet you, though, in fear of a punch. :p

Kairi, I'm responding here as a fan, not a site owner. I'm not being pretentious, per se, just outrageously and foolishly honest. It's a downfall, I admit it, but I'm not trying to be better than anyone else. I wish I could be anonymous when making these comments. Also, why do you still insist on telling me about PLAY!? I don't trust them just like I don't trust VGL. Can't you understand that I don't like anybody? I'm not supporting any party...

Anyway, I'll let Tommy's thread continue its normal path now...

P.S. - Tommy, I did not call you slanderous. Read again.

You're the one who is full of shit, exaggerating and putting "spin" on things.
You're the one who has turned a nice thread into something negative.

The evidence is pretty black & white bud. I really don't think you're that stupid not to realize that.

I'd actually prefer it if you didn't respond in here any more. I refuse to be accused, harrassed and called a liar when I have done absolutely nothing but tell the truth.

For most of you... thank you all for being so kind and generous with your praise. I have way too many other things to be focusing on than childish, negative, immature crap like the vile I've heard here today from Mr. Maul. I prefer to focus on the positives in life.


Tommy




Additional Spam:

Please...

Not everyone reads into everything as negative as you do. Just because you have a chip on your shoulder when you read my remarks doesn't mean that's how they were written or intended. Go back and read it again sporto... no where did I lose my temper. Only telling you to look in the mirror and be ashamed.



Tommy





Additional Spam:

Kairi,

I think it's pretty obvious from all of this that Mr. Maul is in constant contact with Mr. Paul... wait a sec?? Mr. Maul??? Mr. Paul???

Hmmmm?????

Makes ya wonder doesn't it!

Hahahahahahaaa!!

The bottom line however is that the Play! folks are obviously reading every word of this but refuse to respond and when they constantly get called out on their bullshit they make the little changes to their website.

I think it's pretty clear what the story is.


Tommy

I don't see anything substantiated in your post. It's just generic insults and inane rhetorical questions to make me seem bad. If you haven't lost your temper, you don't seem very calm to me; I find your post very aggressive and feel you try to be offensive and patronising. It supports my view that your benevolent public image yourself is a load of spin. It also makes me speculate why Jason wouldn't want to cooperate with someone as uncompromising as you are.

If you remember, I was responding to Kairi's point frankly. I find it terrible you can't resolve your conflict with Jason and I know many who feel the same. I don't enjoy your spin and how you present yourself and similarly know others who feel the same. I did not accuse you of slander, but was honest that I couldn't trust you. I didn't express open hostility or say anything bad about VGL. You respond to me like I'm a brutal attacker; perhaps understandable, but I said I liked the principle of VGL, enjoy your compositions, and would like to attend VGL, so am I really that vile by not giving unconditional support?

As for Mr. Maul = Mr. Paul, very funny, but I've already made it clear I dislike all parties involved. If I were a PLAY! representative, I'd not be a very encouraging one.

If you prefer to focus on the positives in life, cut out the degradation of PLAY! and look at your concert instead. I'm sorry for my insensitivity and stupidity, but I cannot trust you.

Mr. Maul, please, we have gone around the world with the issues about our so-called 'lies' and 'exaggerations'. I can't speak for Tommy or Video Games Live, but I can say that everything Yura and I have posted is 100% accurate. I'm just a bit puzzled why we keep touching on this issue.

If you don't trust producers, that's fine. But accusing them and labeling them with potentially harmful comments (which effectively highlights the whole organization in theory) and without a real cause (other than 'you don't trust them') can be damaging.

God its like just because you guys are creating major concerts that makes profit it has to mean you guys are evil coporate heads who are just in it for the money. The only one who's like that is Jason. The others have shown nothing but passion.

I went to the LA VGL, I saw Tommy going on stage himself as an MC, I can FEEL the goddamn passion and energy in him, I can feel his love for music when he performed the goddamn Halo 3 theme on stage.

No actor, and Tommy is not even an actor, can fake such Passion or enthusiasm.

You don't see it Maul, why? CAUSE YOU NEVER BEEN TO ANY OF THEIR CONCERTS!

And yet you think you know everything about them.

I hope you can get over your misanthropic attitude and be able to see who these people really are, not producers looking for a way for a quick buck, but musicians and creative people showing the word that video game music is not lame or stupid or kiddies stuff. Its an amazing world filled with different stories to tell through music.

Tommy has every right to express his displeasure to what Jason is doing. And who cares if you don't trust him? That's not even a good reason to begin with anyway.

Yes. I agree as well. This is the point I was trying to make to him but instead he continues to react hostile and on the offensive. He doesn't seem to understand that saying things like "ALL THE CONCERT PROMOTORS AND PRODUCERS ARE EVIL, LYING, SELF-PROMOTING, MONEY GRUBBING JERKS" isn't bad for all of the hard work that each of us has to endure day after day.... whether it's us, Play!, Emmenence... whoever.

It's so easy for someone like him to sit in his ivory tower of doubt and distrust and throw insults and lies on us... but then cover it up by saying things like... "but I still want to go to your show if your ever in town again".

Geez thanks.

:)

Tommy

We make munnie out of recordings ^^

Mr. Mauls in his PMs stated that he read interviews from Yura, Jason and Tommy and was able to find enough ammunition to justify his mistrust.

Well go ahead Mr. Maul, post the interviews and and explain yourself in detail, and no more "subtleties" in your arguments, I want them in plain text and statements. You started this mess, by gods you are going to finish it.

If Play! has been spreading lies that affect Eminence and VGL, they have a right to defend themselves. Nothing was exagerrated and this is one siutation that is clearly black and white, no grey areas. Either the truth or plain lies.

Now, explain youself, have links and quotes from these interviews to justify yourself.

Why do you insist on making this an issue of musicality? It's an issue of administration. I don't doubt the passion of VGL, Eminence, and PLAY! It doesn't mean I find their administration acceptable. I've never claimed Tommy acted musical inspiration; that'd be damn stupid of me. I've just criticised how he's going about dealing with the competition.

I haven't lied; I've expressed an opinion that may or may not be valid. I can understand that my attitude comes across belittling and patronising; I should really work on my tone and tact. However, I find it regrettable that nobody prepares to speak up to you when you go around degrading another concert series. I'd love it if all parties were happy and would not be so antagonistic myself, but I'm unprepared to take sides when all of you seem at fault.

I agree that this issue is touched upon too much and it is largely my fault. I shoud not make provocative posts in the presence of Kairi, even if my initial post that prompted the inquisition was quite justified.

However, when VGL and Eminence are unofficial partners, I find any post you make on the issue biased. It'd be interesting if VGL and Eminence were enemies again, but with Tommy, I guess there's only two things -- allies and antagonists.

I don't see anything coming from Jason, Tommy, or Yura that gives me faith in the administration of these concerts. I like your comment about them showing the world what VGM is made of; but when there's so much competition, this doesn't happen and fans, composers, and producers all get cheated as a result.

My constructive point: THIS SHIT NEEDS TO BE SORTED OUT. If Tommy, Yura, and Jason continue their respective feuds, public perception of VGM will falter and people will lose respect for these concerts of great potential. I like what everyone is doing, but why can't people be less competitive? You seem to just blame PLAY! but everyone is contributing to the mess. Oh no... the idealist is coming out in me after all that misanthropic bitterness. I'm sorry for the offense I've caused and promise I won't derail a thread like this again. However, something needs to change.

How can all parties be happy when ONE of them is spreading lies that affects the other two?!

Give me a good method to deal with this situation or just stop this.

And please read my last post, you caused this thread to derail into this, you need to end this by explaining yourself completly. Right now, you sound like a flaming noob with no evidence to back you up.

POST the goddamn interviews or leave the thread, cause you offer nothing substantial with back up.

Everyone is putting spin on things... making one party look bad while self-promoting. The competition between Jason and Tommy started even before the formulation of PLAY! and VGL. Jason was foolish to lie but that wasn't the start of the antagonism and Tommy did nothing to make it better. Everyone is spreading lies about each other and it's a big mess.

I have nothing to quote. What I said was with respect to the attitudes they present in interviews, not the content of what they say. I haven't read enough interviews to quote specific examples (and never claimed to have examples). I don't intend to either as they're all pretty much the same. However, one example of Eminence and VGL lying back was about PLAY! using illegal images/clips; turned out that wasn't the case after all after both of you insisted that was so.

I don't think I'm entirely to blame. You responded antagonistically to a reasonable point and Tommy lost his temper to my expression of mistrust. I tried to leave it, as I knew it were not productive, but, as usual, we all dig the hole deeper and still make VGM concerts look like a rut in general.

There WAS an illegal use of images and clips, the image of Rinoa from Dear Friends which belongs to Square and not Play!

http://www.play-symphony.com/presskit.php

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v38/kairi_li/Play.jpg

WHAT ARE THOSE IMAGES DOING THERE?! Play! has not gotten the rights from Square, NO ONE does, because Square wants to have their own concerts! Dear Friends is part of Square, not Play!, and Rinoa belongs to Square, not Play!. Their presskit should have Play! exclusive images only, putting those up gives a false impression that Play! has rights to use Square images and videos! Guess what this is called? FALSE ADVERTISING! And its in the PRESSKIT of all things!

That Rinoa image used to be on the front homepage, gee, I wonder why they removed it?!

Face it Maul, you have no real back up if that is all you can pull out of your head, I can pull alot of crap that Play! has done out of my head, and you have none.

The initial claim was they were showing whole illegal clips at all concerts. I see no clips. Now it's reduced to Rinoa being on a Dear Friends logo, which seems quite legal to me. Given it's Dear Friends not PLAY!, it's highlighting an actual event from the same producer and describing it accurately. Of course, I'm not a lawyer.

Kairi, you're still not understanding my point. All parties are undermining the unity of VGM as a whole. Nobody is doing anything about it. Spin is being put on all sides. I never claimed Jason slandered, but he does many things to subtle undermine PLAY!, as evidenced by yesterday's thread, and occassionally lies, as evidenced by the clips thing.

You want people to take sides, but truth is, both concerts are good additions to VGM and can produce thoroughly enjoyable evenings. Even Tommy claims to see the validity of supporting them all, though you want PLAY! to crash and burn because you're not allied with them. Open your mind to either all of them or close your mind to each of them. None is better than the other; they're just different.

We never lied. And it's the absolute truth. If you would like confirmation, please by all means contact Square Enix and ask. I haven't been to a Play! concert so I can't say for sure if they were used illegally, but even that image on the Play! website of Rinoa can be classed and assumed as a breach of copyright.

Dear Friends and More Friends however, that's a completely different case (despite being run by the same people).

Play! has mediocre arrangments, and most of them are not even original. Alot of them are taken from existing material and are practically ccarbon copies of them. THe Chocbo arrangement is brass de chocobo from FFX. The Kingdom hearts medly was butchered with very little Yoko material and more Utada, and yet Yoko was invited as a guest. The Metal gear solid theme was, ick, was nothing compared to VGL.

If you minus the administration and just focus on the performance, Play! just simply doesn't want to do their best or pour more work into it.

Its too bad you can't see that, how can you? You only have been to Play! and not VGL, you can't tell the contrasting difference.

I support the concerts I want to support, I can either support one, or 2, or all of them cause its my friggin right and I, unlike you, have justifiying reasons. I don't want play! to crash and burn, I want them to BETTER themselves, but with Jason there is not going to happen. I'm against Jason, not the idea of Play!. Unlike you, I have substantial and justiying reasons to mistrust Jason, where as you don't.

You can't even post the interviews to show us what attitudes these guys you claim to have. We can't trust your opinions, so give us the hard facts by posting the INTERVIEWS!

But you have lied, albeit unintentionally. You assumed too much about the videos of Disney's Kingdom Hearts (and they were initially concert videos you mentioned, not images). You don't even have proper evidence that the image of Rinoa is illegal; you assume it can be classed as a breach of copyright. You're clutching at straws and have no substantial proof of breach of copyright, just the quote:

Until you get official proof from Square Enix that PLAY! breached copyright, Eminence and VGL have lied. Besides, you said you were certain the videos were a breach of copyright until I got official confirmation they were Disney's. So you've lied no matter what. Just like Jason...

I thought you've never been to a PLAY! concert? I agree that the Metal Gear Solid theme was controversial, but at least the arrangement is original (unlike VGL's carbon copy). I didn't hear many carbon copies at Stockholm save for Kingdom Hearts, which I did criticise. Anyway, support what you want, but that doesn't mean you have to start a bashing campaign when you know little (other than the situation is a mess and nobody is helping to improve it).

However, this is not an issue of musicality on my part...

I told you before, I heard the leaked recordings someone posted here, you obviously didn't read my posts and chose selectivly.

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

And how did YOU know VGL was a carbon copy? You have never been to one. Besides, I'm fine with carbon copies as long as they aknowledged it or cut them up right.

Their Chocobo arrangment was claim to be original by Roth, it wasn't, its from FFX. Lying.

Their cut and paste of Chrono and KH was horrible.

Point being, I don't want to support a concert that does a bad job and refuses to improve themselves.

There is such a thing as a concert thats better in performance, arrangement and quality. Play! failes at all of them, and its within my right to not go to their concert. I opened my mind to them and they sullied it. Now this is NOT a black and white issue of "you either care about all of them or ignore everything".

And we have proof about the who Rinoa image, no concert in America or Australia has any rights to use their images. The concerts contain nothing from Square, and only Disney images from Disney movies was used for Play!. Get your facts straight. Using that Rinoa concert image as a logo is false advertising and a breach of copyright, because Square won't allow their images in any other concert other than their own!

HOW HARD is it to understand that?!

LOLZ. Hypocrite! I've heard MGS' arrangement from a YouTube video. A high-quality one too unlike the Stockholm rip which was so much better in the real thing.

If you have the More Friends CD and the FFX OST, compare "Brass de Chocobo" and "Swing de Chocobo". You'll see the latter is much more elaborate and accomplished. Arnie did an excellent job here and did plenty of arranging, despite clearly being inspired by "Brass...".

The new Stockholm concerts sound very promising. There has been nice variety in the concerts overall even if there was room for more. PLAY! have done a decent job overall in this respect and haven't been bettered by VGL or Eminence.

That's an opinion, not a fact. VGL and PLAY! achieve different things but have been widely appreciated by various audiences. That poor Stockholm rip did not compare to being there at the real thing.

But why do you still insist on making this a point of musicality? PLAY!, VGL, and Eminence are all very musically accomplished and suit different audiences. What you prefer should not affect who you support in this serious issue of administration.

A concert that does horribly in adminstration and the actual production deserves no credit. If fans want to go , its their choice, and no one aside from me perhaps, has sway them to do so. Meaning Tommy and Seraph had done nothing to deserve your contempt.

Its an opinion perhaps, but all I know is, I got a much better performance and arrangement out of VGL, and I get to meet the composers for free.

Pray tell, which one is worth your hard earned money?

And I posted again and again about the Rinoa image thing, please read it. I don't support Play!'s administration cause they're liars, I support VGL and Eminence cause they listen from fans and have done NOTHING WRONG. They defended themselves when they had to and that is all. Its too bad you look into things so much you think everyone's a money grubber.

Yeah... it does get a little annoying when he calls me some concert producer... as if I have no other vested interest besides money in trying to acheive my goal and dream of helping to legitimize this industry as I have continued to do for the past 17 years of my career.

He won't listen Kairi... It's not even worth wasting our time or energy.

Lets just ignore it and move on.

Instead... lets see some really cool footage I just watched from our show in San Francisco Friday night...

:)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uopqwVYy0W8

http://video.ap.org/v/en-ap/v.htm?g=...advnj&fg=email

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxwMtU05Pbc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as6ODJmzYAU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dsu4Tzgahoo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czOH_kR5rEw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otE1bq2pCOI


Cool review from Game Informer (#1 game magazine in the world):
http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Sto...1811.11992.htm

Cool reviewers blog of the experience: http://candiceshane.wordpress.com/20...s/#comment-135



Tommy

They've acted unprofessionally, attempted to insult me, and have contributed unfavourably to VGM unity. I have much reason, both personal and otherwise, to have unpleasant thoughts towards them. But let's not go further down this road...

I did not need to be told which image it was. I've already clarified this issue. hsimons already explicitly said that VGL and Eminence assumed a breach of copyright, but never had it officially confirmed. Those images are likely an exception because they're an image of a concert with credit to the concert given, not just any old image copied over. In addition, prior to that, they made a completely inaccurate claim that they had definitive proof that Kingdom Hearts videos abused copyright. I'm not a lawyer, but given your interpretation of other issues, I would not trust a single thing you said on this issue. Until SE gives explicit confirmation that these images are illegal, we should assume the claims of VGL and Eminence are dubious.

Your opinion about which is better is still not relevant. One, because it is so subjective and biased (most people enjoy both and you've still not attended, felt, or properly heard a PLAY! concert). Two, because it's an issue of administration, not musicality. You're trying to mindwash and once more reflect why both sides are manipulators. Anyway, I'm going round with circles with you, so I'm getting out of here. I don't think I have anything more to say.

Never lied. Perhaps misinformed about Play!'s video production work (as explained, I haven't been to a Play! event), but certainly never lied about legal concerns. The image example in this case was just that, an example. I never firmly said that it was a breach (after all, I'm not part of Square Enix's rights division), but could be classed as breach. I did mention a while back that if Play! used only Disney footage from Kingdom Hearts (or just Disney footage in general), then that's fine (or completely out of my concern or legal limit).

I have substantial proof, but posting it here would be totally unprofessional. As I said, you are welcome to email Square Enix and ask, or if you want to be that eccentric, claim a court subpoena and demand I show and tell. But I'm part of a recognized organization. Do you honestly think I'd put my company's high reputation in jeopardy by false claims?

You have to trust me, cause guess who actually gone to VGL?

ME! Disney footage was used, footage from actual movies and shorts instead of the ingame footage. If Play! had used things straight from the games, then its a breach of copyright, cause VGL got rights from Disney, but not Square, and no way will Square let KH go and but not FF for concerts that they don't own.

THAT IS A FACT!

And its a fact that people want to meet composers for free instead of paying 100 bucks.

Go contact Square yourself, because we got all the proof we needed, you don't, that is YOUR PROBLEM!

You bought those insults on your own, its your fault not theirs.

They have contributed alot to VGM unity, Emienence and and VGL respect their composers and brought them together. Play! didn't, and charged fans to see them.

Get over yourselve and move on.

Thank you for confirming my point, Harry. You unintentionally but unequivocally lied.

As for the so-called definitive proof you can't post here, how can I trust anything Eminence claims? It sounds like another lie to me. If you want to proof me wrong, please contact me privately and I'll keep it to myself.

Be specific and have back up, or go away. There is no such thing as unintentionally lies, thats called "ignorance", not lying. In order to lie, one must be aware of the truth. If you state things that turn out to be untrue, but you didn't intend to, it means you didn't know, and that is call ignorance.

Harry, please PM him the facts so he can knock it off.

Great videos by the way Tommy! Gotta bring my DS with me next time!

http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/ge...ost253492.html (The post that started it all)

He stated it was completely illegal and a fraud. Given Harry has explicitly stated what I'm about to quote, they've lied:

Contradiction? No? Add that to the confession that 'perhaps misinformed about Play!'s video production work' and some of Jason's actions don't seem so bad after all.

I'm sorry, what?

No respective company member would directly post an email to someone who isn't involved in the company. If you want proper clearence, you'd need to go through Yura and our other directors of the orchestra, and I can certainly say they would not agree to it due to the circumstances. I can say they'd support my claim. Right now, it's just you and your assumption against my word, undisclosed proof from the Square Enix Rights Division and my company.

In all honesty, these comments are a little upsetting. But when you constantly challenge and insult us (albeit unintentionally) we simply do not want to co-operate. I'm not trying to be unreasonable, I'm being completely reasonable within my own limits.

So some misinformation and suddenly they are all liars?

Seraph has contacts from Square JAPAN. Play!'s Jason is associated with Square USA. Different countries, different copyright issues to deal with.

And Harry may not be in the position to know every fact. Yura is sure of it because this is what he deals with, whereas Harry might not be 100%.

That doesn't make them liars. Misinformed and misunderstandings happens.

Calling VGL a band, now THAT is a lie.

Maul, leave everyone alone and go stew somewhere else. Cause everyone is sick of it. I'm surprised no one here threatens to ban you from the concerts from that attitude of yours. This keeps up all you have left is Play!. and I pity anyone who is only allowed to go to Play!.

Quit goading them into doing something really unprofessional, the only reason I personally would want them to show the proof is so you can leave everyone alone, cause you have done nothing postive for this thread.

Dear Mr. Maul,

Please read the following with a calm easy tone in your head... just as I am typing it.

The more and more you speak the more and more you put your foot in your mouth. Again I must stress... YOU are the one with the lies and misinformation at this point.... and once again... you should be ashamed.

Let me once again pick apart your feeble attempts at what you believe to be the truth. You are so off base on this it's really sad.



WRONG. You are lying. We are not "unofficial" partners. Just people who appreciate each others work. Enemies again?? See... this is EXACTLY the kind of rubbish that you should be ashamed of. VGL and Eminence have NEVER been enemies. What the HELL are you talking about??? You have once again put a black mark on the video game concert industry by spreading your misinformation to the masses. Just like the time you told everyone here that we don't work with "PROFESSIONAL SYMPHONY'S". Your opinions are obviously flawed and why anyone would believe a word from you at this point is beyond me.

:)






Wake up my friend... what you have shown here tonight has damaged what you supposedly sit in your ivory tower and attempt to defend.







Yes... you need to wake up and stop attacking all of us.





Nope... not everyone. Just you and Play!

:D





Um... yes you have AND it would seem that your opinion is not valid on a truthful sense considering your past history in these matters.





Obviously! Because what you have said about me is a load of bullshit.






Wow! You really don't get it huh? I'm actually starting to feel a little sad for you at this point. Then again the more I read the more obvious it is that you are part of Play!... so whatever. It's cool... but still.... WOW!!

As mentioned by the Eminence folks... I could sit here all night and show you proof of a LOT of things... but we are not the people who you feel the need to tear down. THAT WOULD be unprofessional... just like you are being by calling me a liar and full of shit.







Could you please just stop the ego trip for a second? Once again... I never lost my temper... I just called you out on your attack and this is how you're reacting.





Wow! I guess you aren't as passionate and knowledgable about VGM as you want people to believe. Unorignial Carbon Copy? Please let me know where you've heard MSG 1 & 2 combined together while played with exclusive video created by me & Hideo Kojima all while actors are performing the game on stage with completely synchronized lighting.

Yup.... ya got us there didn't ya?

Um....

:)

But yeah... keep the insults and lies flying. We're all ready and waiting for your next whim of opinion about us that randomly pops into your head.






Ah!! I'm starting to understand now. If we defend ourselves from your misinformation and other lies we are acting unprofessional, insulting you and destroying VGM. I get it. Thanks for clearing that up.






Oh God! Will you please just stop with your semantic bullshit. There has been proof thrown in your face time and time again. You are obviously close to, working with or are Play! No one else here finds it funny that we've been posting FACTS and then 2 seconds later it magically disappears off of the website?? And then the only thing he keeps bringing up is this one video image... when literally TONS of other things are out there and then get mysteriously cleaned up as they're mentioned.

You crack me up. Everything you are trying poorly to defend you are completely guilty of yourself and everyone sees it. Hilarious!






Best news we've had all night.

:D






Don't forget telling everyone they played New Zealand, Asia & South America also. Don't forget advertising that they are the only video game concert touring the world. Don't forget telling people they were playing with the Indianapolis Symphony when they weren't. Don't forget advertising that they are represented by IMG Artists on their website when they aren't (that one is still up there although I'm sure it will be taken down and changed very soon... right Maul?)


:)


T.T.

Hey guys...

I don't really know Mr Maul, he's hardly gone to a lot of concerts and cries about unprofessionalism and criticise people. Makes negative atmosphere and be a know-it-all when he don't understand nor even met, spoke or worked with anyone really in the VGM community at a professional level. <=- from my knowledge.

Just one thing from me.

Go QQ more somewhere else.

Before this thread was railroaded I had posted the following. In case it gets lost in all the negative crap flying around I want to repost it because I'd like to get the passionate andn positive folks in here to help out. Please help the cause.

Thanks,


Tommy


================================================== ===

We are currently putting together our European tour which will take place in November & December.

If there is anyone reading this from a Europen country here is how you can help...


Please list your country (or one you are very familiar with) and please let us know what the best gaming websites, groups, conventions, magazines, gaming events, etc. cover video games.

Here are the list of possible countries we are curently speaking with and considering...

UK
Germany
Scandinavia
Italy
Greece
Istanbul
Spain
Portugal
Switzerland
France
Poland
Hungary
Czech Republic
Russia
Belgium

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,


Tommy

The tour sounds like a solid innovation. If I reconcile my differences with you by then, I will attend the UK concert. Would all those concerts be financially viable? I was surprised at how well PLAY! in Stockholm went, so I guess they could be. It'll be quite a few firsts for a lot of countries. Good luck 'in a way'.

Interesting response above isn't it? Whose the bullshitter? Whose the liar?

I just recieved this wonderfully rude PM from Mr. Maul right after he posted above. I don't really care if it was a PM or not. At this point I don't feel this guy deserves anything more than being embarrassed. He definitely has some issues that he needs sorting out. Obviously some kind of jealous or envy thing going on here? I don't know. He is starting to scare me a little bit though and I'll be reporting him to the board moderators. Just want there to be public proof about how screwy this guy truly is. I hope this response destroys any kind of credibility this poster may have had (although according to my inbox is very doubtful).


Tommy

================================================== ====

Hello Tommy,

I decided to PM you instead of cluttering your inappropriate thread further, risking the chance of Eminence and VGL united and the naive freak called Seraph producing inane responses. Quite surreal PMing a so-called composer in such a way, but nonetheless mildly amusing. I was shocked and entertained by your posts when you're finally met with some well-deserved mistrust.

I read your response calmly as suggested. Fortunately, there was nothing there to provoke any negative feelings. Again, a pile of poor comebacks intended for public spin. A strange attempt at humiliation but nothing substantiated was said and your responses were mind-numbingly hackneyed. Your dumbness and closed-mindedness have honestly astounded me. I'm sure you provide good encouragement for Kairi, who seems to worship you despite having a slightly higher intellect.

I used to respect you, mainly because of word of mouth. I respected Jason, Thomas, and Yura as well. Now I just see you're another unprofessional egotistical hypocrite who is out for themselves. Your narrow-minded attitude and stubborness are the principle reasons why VGL is continually being undermined. You are equally to blame for the mess with PLAY! and your concert is no better and certainly more tasteless.

Tonight you showed your true colours. Safe to say, you are a very unpleasant and stupid person with a few anger-management and paranoia issues to boot. I'm sad for you that VGL didn't work out as you liked it, but I'm relieved that no all the slimy showmen in the world go completely without hitches.

Like you, Jason's a dickhead, but at least he doesn't subject illegal forums to his wrath or insist on composing. You're nothing special. Even your compositions are extremely clichéd whether rock or orchestral. Seems your best feature are your looks! Congrats, though, on being lucky until now. It must feel great rolling in it with artless music by your side.

Tommy, I don't feel anger towards you, but you are an embarrassing reflection of everything that is wrong with America and the commercial music world. As a sign of hostility and lack of desire to attend a concert filled with your stench and Wall's drivel, I will not be coming to the next England VGL concert. I probably have a uni ball or something to go to anyway.

I really hope you and Jason sort something out for the sake of VGM, though I'd much prefer it if you two didn't exist in the first place. Oh, and stop influencing Yura so much. He's young, emotionally charged, and mentally challenged, willingly swayed by someone outwardly charismatic as you. You're contributing to his quest to destroy all his integrity. You, though, Sir / my friend, have none left.

Yours truly and you're welcome for the compliment,
Chris


================================================== ========

My response back was simply...

Originally Posted by Tommy Tallarico
You're a sad little jealous man. You will obviously amount to nothing in this life. Have a good one.

T.T.


For which he replied...


I'm an Oxford biochemistry student doing pretty well for myself, so thanks for the input.


================================================== ====



Please let it be known that I am no longer interested in having any kind of contact with this person now and in the future. This will be my very last post about him so for all the people who PM'd me thanking me for putting him in his place... I'm no longer going to do it. Just know that his integrity is completely shot and he is an obvious cancer to VGM. He blasts everyone associated with game music concerts... including Thomas Boecker. Obviously he can't stand the fact that we are all succeeding in something he only wishes he could accomplish in his own life.


Internet drama FTW!

:D

Moving on....



Tommy

Thought it'd be best to keep my sincre pleasantries to PM after your public fest of generic showman insults. Glad you found it insulting after all the flames you gave me earlier (that didn't hurt). Given your disproportionate antagonism towards my distrust, I felt like being extreme. Sorry if I scared you. Thanks for your predictable generic response. Have anything constructive to say to my actually constructive post?

P.S. - You missed the lame 'HAHAHAHAHAAAA' at the top of your PM response. I know you weren't laughing really. :p

re: "Illegal forums"

The fact that industry professionals like Tommy can overlook some minor...legally dubious file transferring going on around here and not only see true fans, but to personally interact with them is truly endearing. Not long ago the RIAA sent a list of IP addresses suspected of file sharing to my university demanding that their identities be turned over. It's refreshing to see people in the industry who aren't driven into a blind rage over the issue.

Your PM is full lof slander with no back up proof. Its not Tommy's fault Jason screws up Play! and fills the website with lies and fills the media with slander. Why do you keep saying things that are ridicudlously false with no back up proof at all?

Mr. Maul, you kept giving me vibes of your jealousy with these professionals for a long LONG time, I'm just glad I wan't the one who had to point it out, for I lack the courage.

Stop stirring internet drama because of your personal, unfounded, bias and racists opinions with no back up proof, and go do something else thats more constructive or positive. Its too bad you're missing out a great concert that is so worth the money and trip. Your post lost its contructiveness the moment your hypocripsy is revealed, Mr. "I said I dun wanna go to your concert but I'll publicly say I will to save what little face I have left."

Liar.

We all have our bias against Americans due to politics and other things, but that gives you no right to associate the "American cliche" to Tommy's actual hard work with NO PROOF!

Tommy insulted you cause you brought it on yourself, you provoked it. If you're so displeased with all handlings of the game concerts then go and try to make one yourself and prove them wrong. Or at least post how things should be handled. Or try to join them and "improve" them. SOMETHING other than sitting on your ass and slandering people whose impressions you got from "interviews" that you refuse to link.

GIVE US PROOF that what you're saying is true, that Tommy is spinning things to brainwash me to support them blindly. (Which I am not ny the way. I just wanna go to a concert that lets me see the composers for free.) SHOW us something, cause like I said in the PMs. TALK IS CHEAP.

And if Tommy and Emienence can't show their proof, tough luck, they're professionals and have non disclosure agreements. You don't. You're either full of it or just too lazy to dig up those interviews that gave you the impressions and started this whole mess. Give us proof that everyone has been lying, that everyone contributed to the mess, and no , defending themselves from Play!'s lies does NOT count!

And no one cares that you don't like Tommy's music. It has nothing to do with Tommy's work as a producer.

Quoted for truth.

Split. You can continue the inflammatory discussion here if you wish. Mr.Maul is now banned from the other thread.

Yay,

why would I waste my time sharing contacts for SE with this nobody called Mr Maul anyway? He's just a biochemistry student in a country far away from me anyway. Who is he to me? Just a nobody. You just make me laugh. If you want proof, you go ask yourself. The proof is within me. I don't have to show you my privates to prove im a guy rofl... lalalalalala~

Never been called a naive freak before. Thanks! I think it's just a real reflection of you though. Go look inside a real studio, meet these people in the market and talk to them. Then perhaps you can hold a proper conversation with me... by which time I will reject you cuz I don't have time to waste time with people like you.

Anyway, happy 20th birthday the other day, I hope you can start making friends (real ones) and learn to be friendly to people around you and not be rude. One last comment from me to you...

Making friends is a better investment than making enemies.

It's become all too clear that these threads go round in circles. Mr. Maul posts something negative, a few producers give some tolerant perhaps inflammatory responses back, and Kairi supports them despite being full of bias. All those who have responded to me either are looking to self-promote or have no degree of objectivity. There's complete lack of regard for VGM as a whole and nobody seems to want to make this situation better; rather scapegoat PLAY! when everyone is responsible. It's a real pity Eminence jumped on the bandwagon when they could have been the party above all the squabbling, though I understand why they'd wish to no longer be enemies of the 'formidable' Tommy.

As for my sudden change of heart about attending a VGL performance, is it not surprising that I was alienated after this hostile and destructive post. I've not even decided whether I will attend a UK tour performance, given I'm curious as to what VGL is like and wouldn't mind having a nice evening. But, at the moment, it'd be ridiculous for me to given how hostile Tommy has been and I don't particularly want to fund him now I've seen his darker side. I'm pretty consistent usually, but this thread made my perception of Tommy and VGL drop massively. I find it appalling Tommy would act in this way in a public forum, regardless of just how antagonistic the posts he is responding to are.

Seraph, I apologise about the naive freak comment. It was late and I meant to say Kairi, not you, as you didn't ignite any negative feelings in this thead. The comment might seem harsh, but I had to endure ten PMs stating 'Post the GODDAMN interviews' (when I made it clear from the start that I used the interviews to infer about the attitude of the producers, not anything content-wise) and then started manipulating my words against me. I find it frustrating when a person selectively reads what I said and never concedes to anything. He/she makes assumptions, selectively reads, twists my words, and shows a tonne of bias. Perhaps Kairi is a nice person, but he/she thoroughly irritated me in this thread and several before that.

Yes, I'm a naive British biochemistry student clearly without the wisdom to 'shut up'. However, you guys should beware of forming some sort of 'elite sect'. Public opinion is important and I know I'm not the only one with my views, as evidenced by comments by Meiusta and RainMan. I'm just the only one stupid enough to say it. I entirely regret opening my big gob, particularly when I'm not anonymous. I don't think it's at all surprising that I suspect Tommy is 'full of shit' and isn't worthy of my trust; I think this thread is an indicator of what he's like. It entirely reaffirmed my suspicions that he was an aggressive antagonist in the war and an individual incapable of compromise of accepting responsibility. Even so, even I was shocked by the stupidity of some of his comments. I expressed doubt and mistrust, but I don't think this demanded Tommy's initial response.

All this thread has consisted of is about four or five allies attacking me for posting criticism of variable but often reasonable worth. You read everything I say like it's meant with malicious intent; often I wish you never existed but I don't actually enjoy fighting with mostly competent belligerent musicians who have made impressive productions. You make it seem like I have a chip on my shoulder and am full of resentment; I'm not and manage good relationships with many successful producers and musicians, e.g. Thomas Boecker (who I did not criticise, contrary to Tommy's post). If you guys went about your business not degrading other concert series and considering the needs of VGM fans and composers, I would not feel any resentment. I also applaud the success of VGL, PLAY!, and Eminence to date.

Even if you disagree with any criticism, is this thread not evidence that the feud has gone too far and everything is a mess? Does it not inspire you to try to make things better? Why can two adults not resolve their differences? Why does everything get so petty and pedantic? Why is it simplified to the good guys vs. the bad guys when the feud is a reflection of mutual antagonism for years? Why can't you people try to establish unity of VGM? Is there really nothing of worth that I said? I apologise for my destructiveness, but not all was horrible. Also, I should say that why is this competition necessary? Aren't PLAY! and VGL both doing very well, according to reports both financially and musically? Why do you insist on trying to destroy a concert tour that many enjoy, Seraph and Tommy?

I'm truly sorry for the atrocity that precedes and accept responsibility. Regardless of how right or wrong the naive and outspoken VGM fan is, however, it doesn't change the fact the situation is an utter mess and none of you are making it any better. Please, oh please, try to see the constructive points of my posts.

Having attended none of the concerts listed above (Play!, Eminence, or VGL), I was bored and just frankly looked at all of the splitted discussion above. Dr. Maul, I fully have to say that I do not support the way you have attempted to troll these threads for the last few days.

Consider me another third party responder: I'm not elitist, and I do not directly know Tommy nor any of the concert staff. It just pains me to see a degree of conflict between any members of the video game music community.

Unfortunately, Mr. Maul, it is pretty clear from your tone of voice that you were the one who is acting significantly more aggressive. Tommy is not acting passive; however, he is not attempting to directly incite more violence into the video game music community particularly. In a sense, Tommy is just attempting to defend his interest in his company, VGL.

Ultimately, using rank (I'm from Oxford!!) is not a valid way to suddenly gain credit or status in a forum that should include all people from all ages. It also saddens me that people from Oxford attempt to use their school as an elitist way to gain such rank.

Hi, I respect your opinion, but the Oxford thing was just in response to Tommy saying I wouldn't get anywhere and was made via PM. It was not relevant to this thread and certainly does not make my opinion any more substantial. Thanks. :)

I'm not trying to condone my actions and have accepted responsibility for them. However, I still don't think the response of Tommy makes the terrible situation better. I'm glad we agree on the point about the VGM conflict being worrying.

I don't want to argue anymore. I believe there's something constructive in what I've said and I don't think much original can come from more oppressive responses. Either way, I think I've said everything I want to and quite a bit more.