Hitoshi Sakimoto
 

Can someone tell me what is good about this man, or any of the things he has done.

He is an absolutely TERRIBLE composer. He has no idea of what chord progressions incite emotions, or when to use these emotions, or even what emotion a given piece needs to have. He fails completely in his attempts to write incidental music (he must not have gotten the memo that incidental music usually needs to... you know, go along with the incidents occuring on-screen...) Probably the worst thing about him is that every song he writes sounds exactly the same. I could post a random work of his and most people who have played his games would not even be able to recognize which game it's from, let alone what track it is.

Honestly, I'm trying so hard to like FFXII right now, and he's really, really making it hard for me. I cannot go anywhere without the weight of his terrible music weighing down on my soul.

And yet, I have seen people praise him - so can someone explain to me where the merit is in his unmitigated dreck?

Hmm, I just rated you a 5 for coming out and doing that...It's been nice knowing you, once the Sakimoto crew is done here.

That said, I don't disagree with anything you just said. I like much of Breath of Fire V and parts of Legaia: Duel Saga and Final Fantasy Tactics (a MUCH better score than FFXII, though not exactly ideal for hour-long battles either) and of course, Bubble Ghost! That's about the extent of my liking anything Sakimoto-related. Too often, I feel like his music does too little in a piece to be effective ("That's it?") or he simply puts too much and makes his music sound busy, with parts that don't seem to work together that well.

Sakimoto is actually one of my favorite composers, personally. This opinion is completely derived from the music itself, too. I don't think I've ever played one of the games that he composed the music for, though I plan to some day. So, I can't exactly comment on your complaint about FFXII's music being unfitting or out of place within the individual scenes. I can, however, try to expand on why he's one of my favorites.

For one, he seems to be a master at evoking certain moods with his work. Unfortunately, this will sometimes produce a wall-of-sound effect that a lot of people tend to dislike. Sometimes the music will end up taking the shaft melodically, but this does not interfere with its purpose to create a certain atmosphere or mood for a particular scene. In fact, this is usually not the case... The music usually does have a melody, but it most likely is being presented in an unconventional way. His atmospheric work is definitely different in style from the compositions of other RPG composers, so I can see how it would take some getting used to. Personally, I find it brilliant and a nice change of pace from a lot of other VGM.

Secondly, the man has versatility. Surely he has a lot of tracks that sound similar, but what composer doesn't? As far as I'm concerned, he's done plenty outside of his atmospheric style as well. It seems that his work on games outside of Squaresoft goes unnoticed more often, but that certainly doesn't mean that it's nonexistant. He's perfectly capable of composing electronic stuff. A recent Song of the Week winner, Mad Buffoon, is a great example. If you give it a listen I think you'll find that it's pretty different from anything in Final Fantasy XII.

I can't really pinpoint why you dislike the guy so much, but I suppose it all comes down to personal taste. Maybe this gives you a little dose of why he's a respected composer, though I'm sure there are bigger fans here who'll have some more worthwhile stuff to add.

Hitoshi Sakimoto has never really amazed me; I find his Vagrant Story score a tad mediocre on some levels, and his Breath of Fire V leaves much to be desired. I don't mind his Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced scores though. Maybe that's just a bias towards the FF series, who knows. :D

I find his compositions to be a bit bland though. I'm not going to bad-mouth him too much, 'cause a track he's composed bears one of my favourite melodies of all time: the track he composed for "Ten Plants", "Kurolera the Factory Chief". If you haven't heard this before, you really should. It shows the frivilous, energetic side of Sakimoto-san. The first time I heard it I just had to play it numerous times...the melody is addictive.

Here's a sendspace link to "Kurolera the Factory Chief"; make sure you listen to it.

So really, I'm a bit conflicted when it comes to Hitoshi Sakimoto's music. When he does a good composition, it's really good, but it's just such an infrequent occurrence, IMO. And for future reference, my favourite score from him would have to be the light-hearted Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced (the remixed versions on the OST, that is). Remixed version of "At the Bar", "Teach Me, Mont Blanc", "Beyond the Wasteland" and "Snow Dancing in the Schoolyard" = :3:.

haha, yeah I don't like him much either and don't understand the craze around him, but I also dislike how you criticize his music from a technical point of view. Like you were able to tell good music from bad music. Ridiculous.

Anyway, the stuff I do like by him are the obvious Tactics Ogre and FF Tactics, though the latter that was entirely composed by him is a bit hard to listen all the way through. Other than this, there are a few retro goodness moments like in Gdleen or Chip Chan Kick. That's it, pretty much. I guess I just dislike what other love about him, namely his long monotonous depressing synth based atmospheres. =/

Just for the record, I've got more or less the same thing to say about Sakuraba.

Kanji, please listen to this.

It is an untagged, unnamed track I selected from Final Fantasy XII. It is the background music for one of the locations in the game. Now, without looking it up, try to describe for me what location this song is from. I will paypal you a dollar if you can guess it correctly without cheating.

Naoshi Mizuta. Every track he wrote for Final Fantasy XI, and even for it's first expansion (I haven't listened to the others) sounds uniquely different without being completely inappropriate (i.e. there's no techno battle themes or anything like the stuff Uematsu used to pull. Not that I have anything against that, Uematsu is one of my favorites, I'm just saying.) The only songs that sounded even remotely similar were the various battle themes, and yet even they were distinctly differentiated by things like melody and tempo. The only real similarity would be instrumentation.

With regards to the two songs you fellas posted, I liked Mad Buffoon (a lot actually,) but I found the other to be pretty mediocre. It's certainly different, from FFXII but I definitely disagree as to how catchy you found it. But these were both, I'm pretty sure, vastly different types of games. My major gripe with Sakimoto is... well, I'm pretty sure this is his thought process.

"This game has swords and shields?! ZOMG! MUST OVERUSE SYNTH STRING PATCHES AND REPEAT NONSENSICAL CHORD PATTERNS THAT EVOKE NO EMOTION!!"

Really. I have no doubts that he's made great music. But how can someone listen to Final Fantasy X, with its vibrant Okinawa-inspired melodies that reflected a world full of life and sorrow, Final Fantasy XI with its songs that reflected a world filled with different types of environments to see, and then go to Final Fantasy XII and hear music that sounds so non-distinct and be satisfied with it?

Also, niki, I've been a musician for several years, and I've heard quite a lot of music. I may not necessarily be a professor at a major conservatory of music, but I can tell when something is uninspired garbage.

Odd...I probably apply most of what you said about Sakimoto directly to Naoshi Mizuta and probably a great deal moreso. I can usually tell within seconds something's a Mizuta track and from that point on, listening through the end is a great feat that I find myself unworthy of fulfilling. Sakimoto isn't my favorite, but I've at least found some tracks of his appealing and break from the huge amount of tracks within a work that do sound similar and unappealing ("Phon Coast" would be my immediate example, as I have neither the time, patience or files anymore to go through the FFXII OST)...Mizuta has managed to be awful and predictable in every instance I've heard his muzak. He couldn't even produce convincing Megaman music (from Megaman and Bass, he was a composer).

It's all a matter of taste, really. Some people (myself included) are fans, while others concoct rant threads to spew bile against the man.

I'm all for discussion, and like everyone I have my own favorite composers, least favorite composers, and the occasional rant. But posting a hate thread seems counterintuitive, at least to me.

Well I disagree about Naoshi Mizuta, I loved his score for FFXI but admittedly that is all I have heard from him. However, certainly you agree, if you have listened extensively to FFXI, that each track was distinctly different from the others, no matter how flawed you found them to be?

Edit: I didn't mean to post a "hate" thread. I really want to know what people find intriguing about this man. I successfully found one song by him that I actually have not stopped listening to yet (Mad Buffoon). I still think his FFXII score is trash, and I'm still dying to see how someone could defend it. Care to take a shot?

Not exactly a huge Sakimoto fan, but I think it only takes three words to justify his existance.

Gradius V Soundtrack.

Not at all...Like I said, I found in every instance I could pick his tracks out from Uematsu's and Tanioka's and each time that happened, it was matter of time before I simply HAD to get to another track. I find his music bland, lifeless, repetitive and predictable, although IIRC, he does change up his synths and instrument usage more than Sakimoto does in a single work. I recently got to hear "Promathia's Theme" (from the Chains of Promathia expansion) and sure enough, it was exactly what I was expecting based on hearing FFXI's score. As far as "extensive listening"...I simply wasn't convinced his tracks were worth more than the minute or so I was giving them towards the back end of the OST after getting through the whole first disc alive. I shudder to think of playing the game with them droning in the background.

I just find Naoshi Mizuta a very odd counterargument for Sakimoto, since he's actually one of the few composers I dislike far moreso than Sakimoto.

I fear I've made a fool of myself. In an unfortunate accident, I recently deleted all the FF OSTs I had collected on my computer, so I don't actually have the tracklist of FFXI on hand, and I completely forgot that FFXI was done by more than one artist. I did listen to FFXI a lot, but I didn't pay much mind to which composer wrote which song, since I liked them all quite so much. I'll get back to you on this one when I'm a little better informed about it.

Edit: I'm better informed now. I have a tracklist of the game now, and I found that many of the tracks I liked were by Mizuta, with only a handful of them being from Uematsu or Tanioka (Ronfaure, Gustaberg, Metalworks, Airship.) I don't understand how you could call a song predictable if it isn't a repeat of another tune (which is something they strayed away from in FFXI after using it extensively in previous FF's.) I do find some of Mizuta's pieces to be flawed; for example Heaven's Tower is essentially one big long Bb chord (thanks Sakimoto), Sauromugue Champaign is a great piece but felt really stretched for length, being 9 minutes or something in that range, although it would've made a great 4 minute piece with fewer repeated measures, and there are other pieces that are just boring and unmemorable. But he had several strong tracks, too. How can you tell me you found The Federation of Windurst lifeless or bland? What about Selbina? Though the Kingdom of San D'Oria might fall under "predictable" (what RPG doesn't have a regal castle song?) what other faults could you hold against it?

tl;dr: I don't really see how you can accuse Mizuta of any of the things for which I complained about Sakimoto. Yeah, he laid a few eggs, but every composer does that. However, there are one or two tracks in FFXII that stick out as distinctly different from the rest of the game. With Sakimoto, bland and boring seems to be the rule, not the exception.

Well, I'm not sure if this will apply to everyone. Sakimoto's work has inspired a lot of emotion in me before -- for example, I remember being awe-struck by the opening theme to FFT.

As to the rest, well -- I'm hardly a music student, so I'm probably in no position to talk about his technical flaws or strengths. I'm just saying that what applies to you emotionally may not be the same for other people.

This thread deserves to be in the sewers.

Comparing Mizuta to Sakimoto is pure insanity. Mizuta composes dull and boring music. Hell, even his upbeat stuff is dull and boring.

Also if you've listened to FFT's music and think it sucks there'a 85% chance you don't have a soul.

Uh-oh... oh no you didn't...

BurningRanger: The Dalmasca Estersand. An absolutely beautiful and emotionally moving track. Especially the parts at 1:00 and 1:46. The sense of awe and adventure is nearly palpable. There are many other excellent tracks, such as: The Phon Coast, The Giza Plains, Esper Battle, The Feywood, Nalbina Underground Dungeon, Clash of Swords, and many more. I love this soundtrack.

I, too, once hated Sakimoto's music. Many of my arguments were the same as yours. I couldn't listen to it for long without turning it off. But, I forced myself to listen, and the more listened to it, the more I came to realize that Hitoshi Sakimoto is an absolutely brilliant composer. His work in FFT, Vagrant Story, FFXII, and the other games he has composed for is unmatched, IMO. The first time I listened to "The Phon Coast" I felt chills run down my spine. The music perfecly paints the image of the location it is named after. I could feel the joy and rapture of "Truth" (from VS) long before I ever played the game. The terrible malice of Rosenkrantz! The frantic and harried Tieger and Neesa. Listening to "The Dalmasca Estersand", I can imagine the vast expanse of the desert, the adventure of unexplored territory, the big, open sky, the desert flora and fauna. In FFT, right from the get-go, the beautiful opening music drags you in and doesn't let you go with its ethereal beauty! Songs likes Ovelia's Theme, Random Waltz, and Apoplexy are some of his best works!

I can see why some do not like him; his compositions are often very complex and focus more on the interplay between the musical elements rather than a strong melody with a simple backing. But waltzing right in here exclaiming that Sakimoto is a "TERRIBLE" composer is just stupid and disrespectful.

Yesterday I did a lot of traveling by train. I listened to the entire FF XII soundtrack in the trains while doing absolutely nothing else. Just listening to the music for over 5 hours.

It was an amazing experience. Now that I'm actually playing the game, the soundtrack has even more of an impact on me than it already had. For me, Sakimoto's music takes time to appreciate. I don't go "wow!" the first time I've heard his compositions. Not the second time, either. But then, something happens. I start to "understand" the music, and suddenly I'm in utter awe with tears in my eyes because the music is so beautiful.

I don't need to compare his music to anyone else's. He's a great composer, period.

*shrug*

His music is well-written. He has a great grasp of harmony, thematic development and orchestration. Especially in the FFXII score, I find something new each time I listen to its pieces. The music might not be to your taste but you have no grounds for criticizing it technically.

Sakimoto has come a long way, imo. His earlier works don't seem to amaze me, but everything after Vagrant Story has been quite good.

His music DOES have emotion when played by an actual orchestra. I believe that he needs to move out of synthesized music and go either into full orchestra or a mixture of synth and performed. His Opening and Ending themes for FFXII and his Staff Roll for Vagrant Story are all evidence that his music can be melodic and emotional. I find his intricacies the most amusing, as he has such a unique view of orchestration, and I'd say that's pretty good for someone who hasn't been formally taught how to orchestrate music ;).

His music has always fit the atmosphere of the games he writes for, and in Final Fantasy XII he wrote music that worked for both battle and field themes. He is quite good at what he does.

Mizuta is the most disappointing and bland composer I've ever heard of in VGM, imo. There are some pieces of his that are good, but that's a small handful compared to the junk he calls music.

Sakimoto has this guy beat in EVERYTHING, and Mizuta won't ever get anywhere close to him.

That's a pretty subjective question. What's so special about any composer? I'm pretty fond of Chris Huelsbeck, but I know there are numerous people who dislike his work. Conversely, I don't care much for Kenji Ito's material, but he has his followings too. It's all a matter of preferences, what you like in music to begin with. People who are into a lot of chromatic notes and dissonance are perhaps more apt to enjoy Sakimoto.

Sakimoto, for me, is quite hit-and-miss. He's done some work that I simply adore and other tracks that I find dreadful. Even on the same album. However, he possesses a fairly distinct sound, and I give him credit for that.

In studying various Sakimoto tracks, I've noticed that he has two basic approaches: either place emphasis upon a strong melody; or place emphasis upon a strong mood. I tend to enjoy the "strong melody" work he does a lot more, as he's usually able to hold back on overwhelming listeners with the "wall of sound". I'm a big fan of layered music but Sakimoto can pile it on rather thick.

This is the problem with his "strong mood" pieces; it's all about the atmosphere and not so much any one part of the track. As such, there's often too much going on at once. Combine this with Sakimoto's obvious preference for the chromatic notes and you can quickly wind up with music that feels both splintered and out of tune.

A great example of what I mean can be heard in two of his more popular tracks from Final Fantasy Tactics, "Random Waltz" and "Apoplexy".

I think "Random Waltz" is magnificent. It's smooth, possesses a strong melody, has excellent transitions and manages to be deep without being overpowering.
"Apoplexy", on the other hand, is full of jagged noise that seems disconnected from section to section. It's dark, brooding and has all too much going on at once, I feel. The end result is chaos.

Yet both tracks have their ardent fans.

I doubt that Sakimoto would ever take a minimalistic tack to his work; being complex is part of his musical signature. Sometimes it's needless and even annoying, but it's what he does. You either accept this or you don't, as Sakimoto's not going to change on anyone else's account.


However, seeing as this is an issue that will probably not die down immediately, (due to the probability of Sakimoto's fanbase crawling from the woodwork whenever his name is soiled) it's inspired me to select a Sakimoto track as my next Song of the Week nomination. I've been hanging onto a really good track for a while now and I think this is a timely opportunity to show how Sakimoto can be complex and atmospheric without resorting to the cacaphony with which many associate the man.

I'm not going to comment much on this thread, but I do see why people wouldn't like Sakimoto's music. It took me a while to appreciate and some scores like FFXII and Vagrant Story required a really long journey. To me, Sakimoto is refreshingly unconventional and I find his musicality quite deep and complex -- a rarity in the VGM world. It's also notable that he's very versatile; I find all his works individually characterised and it's a good idea to check out his early Terpsichorean works (e.g. Revolter, Shippu Mahou Daisakusen, Magical Chase), some shooter works (Soukyuugurentai, Gradius V, Radiant Silvergun), and his 'exotic' works (Legaia Duel Saga, Breath of Fire V).

FFT and TO were both scored by Hitoshi Sakimoto and Masaharu Iwata. Iwata took sizeable roles in each and sounds very distinct to Sakimoto. Much more pronounced and accessible, I'd say, but a bit shallow overall.

I completely agree with that. Mizuta's music is often incredibly dull and it has nothing to it -- never-ending ostinato + infantile melody with a few nice instrument combinations usually. His work on Promathia and Art Urhgan did nothing different even if FFXI itself was decent. Sakimoto is much more subtle, versatile, and interesting, in my eyes.

Hearing you musically mature (at the very least, that's what I read), I'd really like to know how you think Mizuta's music differs from piece to piece. Regarding FFXI's field themes, Mizuta's composition process is pretty much as follows.

1) creating ostinato with unplugged guiter or xylophones
2) creating a theme with woodwinds
3) and then repeating the two again and again...to the end

Of course, Mizuta's instrumental use is easily wider than Sakimoto, who tends to definitely stick to orchestral music. However, if Mizuta's xylophone were marimba, kalimba or balafon, and his woodwind were flute, panpipes or mizmar, I would always feel his field themes are plain similar and samey for the above reason. Also, the same goes for his battle themes.

I'm not attacking or countering your hatred to Sakimoto. For that matter, since I like both composers an awful lot (Mizuta's latest two expanstion scores were quite boring though), I'd hate to see this thread going to be Sakimoto vs Mizuta, and I personally don't think it's a good idea to cite other composers to bash someone you hate. However, as you seem to have confidence in your musical maturity to an extent and think music is explicable, I'd appreciate it if you explain to us how Mizuta is good and how Sakimoto is bad on an academic level.

As much as I'd agree the entire FFX score portrayed the wider range of emotions and locations, which I think you tried to say, just out of curiosity, what tracks from FFX do really have Okinawa-inspired melodies or are composed on the pentatonic scale of the land? Because the FFX's world was like tropical locations and its soundtrack fitted the game, it doesn't mean its soundtrack does sound like Okinawa. Indeed, the entire FFX soundtrack does't remind me of especially tropical locations, let down Okinawa (it's quite easy to pick up the masterpieces of that nature, such as "Besaido island" though).

That's probably the best assessment of him I've ever seen. The biggest problem with it (and I'm going to keep using FFXII as it is the most prominent of his works that I've played) is that there's sooooo many of his "mood" tracks, and I find that they never convey one mood in particular. Part of it, I think, is because of his "wall of sound" technique as you said. His moods, often, are lost on me. And while many of you say things like "it takes repeated hearings to be appreciated," I find that for example scoring a major plot scene witih a "takes repeated hearings" song misses the entire point, because if you need to watch the scene 3 times to appreciate it, then it failed to be an effective scene.

Of his works, I've played Vagrant Story, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance (only a little, though,) and FFXII. I sadly have not played FFT which you all seem to praise quite highly so I'll have to give that a listen sometime. Of what I've played, FFXII seems far and away the best, although it seems sooo derivative from his Vagrant Story score that it's not even funny. The two major differences I picked up are first, there aren't as many "wow, this is a cave, so here's a quarter note chord, and then 3 measures of rest, and then another quarter note" selections, and that he seems to have backed off substantially on his wall-of-sound bit.

A few more points I wanna discuss about FFXII - this is a game where you do a loooooot of grinding. And even when you're not grinding, each dungeon or outdoor area takes seriously like 2 hours to get through. Really now, after listening for one song for two hours, if it hasn't made an effect on you, then it's a failure. That's more than enough repeated hearing, I'd say. Looking at a track list from the game, I'd say I'm about halfway through the 3rd disc, and I can recall only a handful of tracks (and of those, I can think of only one or two I can sing or describe beyond "oh, that's the one where we're on a snowy mountain, so there's a piano sounding all sad and stuff.") And this is keeping in mind many of the tracks are named after their respective in-game locations. I haven't gotten to some of the tracks you've all named, so I'll reserve my final judgment for when I've finished the game.

Also, I mentioned repeated viewings of in-game cutscenes. This is actually something I did with many of the scenes in the game (just because the voice acting and animation is simply impeccable, and many of these scenes made me want to see them again.) And... I find that those are the only things that stick with me. Everyone can remember the music that played when Darth Vader cut Luke's arm off, or even when Sephiroth stabbed Aeris. Why is it that when all Sakimoto had to say was a really long synth string note? I want to say it wasn't the same note for that full 10-20 second shot with the stabbing, but after watching the scene 3 times, I honestly cannot remember if he even changed the note/chord. 3 times, by the way.

I think you kind of missed the point - I didn't want him to name the track, just to describe the emotion to me. I don't really understand "emotionally moving," but it is a good piece, and one of the few that I remember well from the game. (Ironically, it's also one of the places I spent the least time in.) It certainly evokes a sense of adventure, and excitement.

The problem with this, is that it plays in a desert. What is exciting about a desert? What is adventurous about it? On that token alone, it's a confusing selection and seems like a poor decision on his part. But let's compare it with one of the other pieces you mentioned, Giza Plains. Giza pretty much from the get go attempts to create a feeling of uncertainty, of unknown danger (which he does with syncopated string ensemble patches... I don't really see how that works at all, but this post is running a little long so I'll save that for later) The problem with this is that we're talking about, essentially, a savannah. The greatest danger is that there's no water. The only uncertainty is "what's gonna happen when it rains." Certainly the two tracks would be better used had they taken each other's place. While you could argue he meant to go with the emotion of the character, that's not really true - going to the Estersand was something of a chore for Vaan, and it wasn't until he went to Giza that he felt excited and adventurous (because he was going to get a chance to stick it to the Empire.)

Also, for the record, I'm not a Naoshi Mizuta fanboy by any means. I've not listened to any of his work outside of FFXI (although now that Megaman and Bass was mentioned I can remember I didn't like that soundtrack in the least.) I mentioned him only because he composed most of the tracks for the game that directly preceded FFXII. And regardless of the level of musical value or merit of depth of his tracks, they were catchy, matched the locales of the game, and easily hummable. All qualities that are important in an MMORPG, where you could spend upwards of 10 hours in one zone. Being that FFXII is essentially a single player MMORPG, and has many of the same spend-10-hours-here qualities, it's baffling that they chose someone who failed quite so badly at accounting for that.

Additional Spam:
It's pretty well-documented that throughout the composition of FFX, the goal was to create a sound reminiscent of the Okinawan style, perhaps the greatest example of which would be the vocal song performed by an Okinawan woman. It probably wasn't correct for me to say the melodies were inspired by Okinawa, rather than the style, I think that was more of a shitty attempt at artistic English on my part.

I don't like Final Fantasy XII either but to say he is a terrible composer from being exposed to 1 of his numerous soundtracks, leaves your statement feeling horridly rushed.

I think his "failure" is more or less a reflection of your belief that music should speak according to set guidelines. It doesn't, due to its subjectivity. For instance, there is no fixed positioning for chords which might indicate a specific emotional quality. Different chords mean different things to different peoples and inspire unique characteristics.
Personally, if there were a definable set of rules for inciting emotions, I appreciate Sakimoto's attempts at creating something original that defines itself and doesn't use musical methodologies which are already becoming far too commonplace as is.

Here's another principle about the musicality of Final Fantasy XII and can also be true of much of Sakimoto's work; there is a lot going on. Its not as accessible as Nobuo Uematsu's melody riddled efforts, thats for sure. Whereas Nobuo's Final Fantasy music is appreciable right off the bat, Sakimoto's music has a very unique character to it that is often appreciated through continually being exposed to it. His music is much more dissonant, much more percussively driven and quite a bit more complex. That is, it takes time to become familiar with Hitoshi Sakimoto's musical idiom.

At first, I listened to Sakimoto's work in Final Fantasy Tactics and thought to myself, what is this guy doing? He's not developing this piece properly!!!
However, through listening to the music again and again, it becomes understood that there is a methodical precision with which Sakimoto creates music and through realizing that, it allowed me to better understand the intent behind his work. Furthermore, each of his works has its own sense of character, which makes it difficult to pin him down.
Listen to Vagrant Story if you don't believe me.

So in closing, appreciating Sakimoto's musicality requires an effort to understand how it all fits together. Each of the soundtrack's that I have of Sakimoto are unique and brilliant in their own ways. The interesting thing about Sakimoto's music is that it isn't always what it appears to be...its almost always much more.

Taisai, you have very good points, but I totally disagree with this:

I highly recommend that you listen to Sword Maniac, Gradius V, Legaia Duel Saga, Magical Chase, or Hyper Street Fighter II Remixes. With these scores, it'll become evident that Sakimoto is well-versed in the fields of old-school (but hardly derivative) synth music, energetic electro-acoustic shooter scores, exotica, funk, jazz, and even an exotic form of rock. His popular orchestral works (FFXII, FFT, Ogre Battle, Tactics Ogre, etc.) are just one facet of him. Sakimoto is very versatile on both a discreet and subtle level.

While Mizuta's acoustic palette is impressively diverse, he can do little outside it and doesn't seem to respect the individual capacities of an instrument. I feel his instrumentation use can be formulaic and mechanical.

Personally, I've never noticed such a firm distinction. I think it's a big spectrum and I'd typically call Sakimoto quite a melodic composer despite how atmospheric most of his works are. He's much less outwardly melodious than, say, Nobuo Uematsu, but I hear a lot of melodic elegance and witty lyricism underpinning many of his works.

BurningRanger, I think you're just stating that you dislike his compositions and you personally felt many of FFXII themes out of the place or emotionally poor, rather than discussing about his music on an academic level, which I believe you initially required us to offer. As some of members said, it's a matter of preference. You say this thread isn't a 'Sakimoto hate' thread, but why not? As long as you, the thread starter, are constantly claiming his music is just garbage or dreck on an unilateral level, it's doomed to be so. I'm not saying it's wrong to have the thread of that kind, but I'd appreciate it if you don't pretend to be fair, objective or musically matured enough to explain your hatred on an academic level.

That said, I'd fully agree many of FFXII area themes didn't fit the landscapes at all and most of sequences themes were forgettable, especially after FFX and FFXI (the sequence themes from FFX were awesome and the area themes from XI fitted the game incredibly). "Delmasca Estersand" for a sand theme and "Phon Coast" for a coast theme were just dreadful treatments. I'm pretty certain many people will disagree over it, though.

It's totally another story, but I've recently noticed Sakimoto love is hard to find in comparison with other major composers, while there're too many Sakimoto detractors here and there. Indeed, there exist people who always cite Sakimoto as a bad example just to praise something they love. What is even worse, they rant even when we just post news related to Sakimoto or when we just vote Sakimoto in the popularity poll. I've seen the administer of a certain gamemusic website to be asked not to cover Sakimoto anymore. I'm pretty sure someone will come to this thread soon and start to insult Sakimoto and accuse Sakimoto fans of loving his music only because it's technical (of course it's just his prejudice ;)). Hatred toward Sakuraba or Kenji Ito is also very available..., but I still think hatred toward Sakimto is much bigger. Therefore, I regard Sakimoto as the least accessible composer of all major SE-related composers. By 'accessible', I don't intend to be an elite, but I dare to say Sakimoto couldn't meet mass demand.

However, aren't those titles far less popular games than FFs are? One reason why I adore Uematsu is that he has composed about 10 FF soundtracks in a variety of genres and has always pleased several million people. Even his experiments were also still accessible. On the other hand, when Sakimoto works on major games, he does stick to orchestra and indeed he confessed he had avoided to compose traditional folk music in FFXII. I personally think Gradius V wasn't so freshing, aside from Four to the floor (even which I think Sakimoto had rarely used). The orchestra + Roland XV-5080 synth + sampled beats isn't unusual Sakimoto. Nontheless I'd agree Legaia Dual Saga had some celtic, jazz, folk pieces and his earlier works sound different (Magical Chase and Sword Maniac included).

You referred to his instrument use as limited without indicating you were talking exclusively about his works. With those works, I think it's evident that Sakimoto can manipulate a wide range of instrumentation beyond just orchestral instrumentation. As for Gradius V, it's worth is debatable and I find it the weakest of his shooter scores, but I wouldn't say it was atypical. As early as his first work, Revolter, those electro-acoustic leanings were evident.

One thing that does bear mention...A lot of the Sakimoto supporters seem to be saying that "the more you listen, the more you understand the music." I have two initial issues with this:

1. This is true of any composer and nearly any piece of music (even so-called "simple" melody-harmony-percussion pieces). Sakimoto is not special in this regard.
2. Normally for a track to be repeated even once by a listener, it has to appeal on a certain fundamental level. Maybe not so much melody...Maybe it'll be the bassline or the instrument usage. Basically, you have to like at least some of a track in order to WANT to replay it. I mean, "Tri-Section", "Electricity Supply Building" or "Apoplexy" didn't jive with me the first time I heard them, but I found at least something moderately appealing in them...all are quite enjoyable now. "Battle for Freedom"...Still sounds like 9 minutes of absolutely nothing and I've heard it 5 times. Same for "Limestone Quarry" and "Factory" (Vagrant Story).

Taisei: What site are you talking about? I've never heard anything about that. I find Sakimoto hate to be pretty normal in accordance with the full list of composers out there and given his output...He has his supporters as well. Frankly, I find him much more popular than he deserves to be.

Goldfish, 1)no it isn't true of any composer. Every composer has a different formula for creating music and therefore styles greatly differ from musician to musician. Whereas some composers provide music which sustains a mood or is successful at first glance, the fact may be that the music only holds that quality for that very initial phase without providing food for thought later on. I find Sakuraba to be one such musician. That is, the sense of discovery in exploring the music is very limited beyond the first playing. It doesn't make Sakimoto 'special' to create music that gets better with analyzation, it does make him unique and off the beaten path, which in my mind at least, sets him apart from various other musicians who are more widely accepted.
2)You partially proved my point. Did you not enjoy these pieces considerably more after spending more time with them?

You seem to have missed the point...I said some of his pieces had enough to them to make me want to replay them. Those listed were some of them and thus, I did end up enjoying them more. The ones listed AFTER them, however, haven't convinced me they're worth a second or third go-around and remain as unappealing as they did the first time. In that sense, Sakimoto is no different from any other composer, band or musician out there. Spending more time listening to his material is not going to make the listener enjoy or appreciate it more if one does not initially find it at least moderately appealing.

My, this thread reminded me of earlier thread of Sakuraba. Just like the thread starter, I feel the composer just doesnt get my taste, in contrast how many people (might) praise him for albums he composed.

Anyway, I am actually fair admirer of Sakimoto's works, especially the Final Fantasy Tactics and Ogre Series. I havent listened much of his earlier works, but I think Sakimoto has distinguished style of neo-classical, and somehow, has atmosphere of celtic and jazz. I love his works especially when he's using woodwind instrument and harp, which is necessary to build mediaval atmosphere.

But I dont like some of his works, for example is Breath of Fire V. I petrified when realizing how Sakimoto composed in different style, and using a lot of dissonants (CMIW) in this album. I only like one track, and eventually I never bothered to listen to the rest anymore. For FFXII soundtrack, I wouldnt say it's really good album. I personally think it has too much ambient music and some really few melodious tracks. But some music are just really good.

I wouldnt dare to label him terrible composer. It's all return to your subjectivity and taste toward VGM composer. I, for example, worshipping Sugiyama and Haneda, but dislike Sakuraba and at the moment still trying to understand music of Yuko Tsujiyoko (Fire Emblem). There is nothing wrong with it, perhaps if you listen a lot of his works, you will eventually appreciate him more.

Also, if you think Sakimoto mediocre, try to listen Tsujiyoko's works, which sounds much like robotic music. Both composers composed music for mediaval-setting game. Sakimoto produced Tactics Ogre+Ogre Battle with mixed atmosphere of mediaval-classical music that are memorable, while Tsujiyoko works sound like "just a BGM".

Its unfair to assume that any given person is going to judge a piece of music only according to a very sketchy initial impression. If I had said, "Oh ya know, I don't really like Prokofiev's Toccata. It sounds too strange! I have heard it once and I think its terrible, so I guess I won't listen to it ever again." Then I would be a great fool and overconfident in my abilities to analyze something properly in due fashion. Music, to me, is a journey.
Certain pieces of music simply require more time to appreciate. Why? Because the musical makeup is such that the beauty present in the music isn't clear at first glance. It requires more time to work its magic.

You are making the claim that we only appreciate what we like up front and that is all that's worthy of examination, and I simply think that is rather false.

Why does that matter in this discussion anyways? The gameplay in Final Fantasy Tactics is such, that the gamer will hear most music in the game multiple times anyways, whether they like it at first glance or not. So, the player is forced to become more familiar with the music.
Furthermore, you are needlessly eliminating an important step from the musical listening process and assuming everyone follows that same standard. Music can and does grow on us through invention. That is the main point I am making...not to be confused with the degree with which we like a piece the first time we hear it.

What isn't? Although most people think of a barren, sandy wasteland when the word "desert" is mentioned, that's really not the case at all. Deserts (unless they are exceptionally dry) are teeming with life, a vital and active ecosystem rife with dangers and discoveries alike. I feel that the song "The Dalmasca Estersand" describes that type of environment very well.

No...My claim is that people will find more to like in music the more they listen to it. Sakimoto's fanboys make this claim, while not realizing it is largely the same across the board for anyone. In that respect, Sakimoto is nothing special. Even a piece I like nothing about, I will understand it better through repeated listening, even if I don't actually like it more. It becomes a matter of economics at that point...Do I REALLY want to waste my time trying so hard to like something I'm hating, even if I AM understanding it more? Doesn't it just make more sense to junk this and move on to something else?

I know...I'm well aware of that. Consequently, I believe Tactics is an OST that works far better out of context. Very few pieces made me like them more by hearing them looped for hours on end. The ones I did enjoy were ones that I took at least some form of liking to at the start. On the same hand, I find Tactics to be comparably one of his more enjoyable OST's...I do not plan on playing Vagrant Story or FFXII, partly based on what I've heard of the music in both (though the actual gameplay is an equal deterant in both cases).

I suppose it would depend on how "inventive" we find Sakimoto's music. I don't particularly find him to be one of the more inventive composers out there who will present new and exciting ways to enjoy music, whereas most of his supporters do. Therefore, my rewards for extended listening are questionable at best and a complete waste of time at worst, since I manage to sense a similar feeling when I dislike a piece of his (that is, a piece will feel underdeveloped or simply too busy and undefined to be enjoyable).

Jesus, this is quite an all around bashing thread with no mentioned composer exempted. I wonder if I should introduce Daniel DeCastro to it?

^^^Sure, why not? Just allow me to keep my cyanide nearby...

It seems I don't deserve the dollar. :( You definitely have a point here. There's no way that I would have been able to pick out the track you uploaded as being The Dalamasca Eastersand (heck, I probably wouldn't know right now if PiccoloNamek didn't make a mention). Guess I'm not very familiarized with FFXII's music yet. My idea of a desert theme is actually very similar to yours, so there's no way I would've associated the track with a desert. I tend to get more of an epic vibe from it, myself. Perhaps I would've guessed that the track plays in a bustling castle town. It has a few passages that seem to suit a battle theme quite well, too.

However... I'd be lying if I said that the music wasn't enjoyable to me. The Dalamasca Eastersand is a really strong track that effectively gives off a feeling of adventure and the power of exploration. Maybe it wasn't concocted with the general formula of a desert theme in mind, but its unique approach is welcomed by me. Just from listening to the track (as I said, I haven't played the game), I'd say that this is music that doesn't mirror the environment per se, but it tends to focus more on the interaction of the characters with the environment.

Oh, and thanks for that SendSpace link, Muzza! I really enjoyed the track. Looks like I'll have to get my hands on Ten Plants sometime soon.

I'm afraid I am going to have to disagree with you, and agree with RainMan. When I heard my first sampling of Sakimoto's music, absolutely nothing about it appealed to me. I hated it. There was nothing about any of the music that made me want to listen to it again. The melodies were not easily discernible and many of the tracks were very dissonant. But against my own will, I forced myself to continue to listen. I thought to myself "There has to be something about this music that causes people to adore it so much.". And I was determined to find out what that something was. So, I burned the FFT soundtrack to CDs and listened to them in the car. In other people's cars. When I was doing the dishes. Whenever I could, really. And eventually, as I began to memorize the content of the tracks, certain ones among them began to stand out. Certain unique rhythms, interesting interplays of instruments, a melody that I didn't notice before.

And before long, without even realizing it, I too had become a big fan of this soundtrack.

It went much the same way with the VS soundtrack. There were a few songs that stood out, but many that I didn't like. But over time, I got to know each and every song, its intricacies, what made it unique. It is still my favorite Sakimoto soundtrack.

Greetings all. I notice that there is a request to speak about what is so special about Hitoshi Sakimoto, but first allow me to introduce. My name is show here so I need not mention that. I am currently in my final semester at New York University as a candidate for an M.A in Music Composition.

I have struggled much to increase awareness of Video Game Music at this particular juncture. I'm not dealing with message board avatars there, I am dealing with academics. Dealing with academics is like dealing with the Roman politicians during the time of Julius Caesar; you have to do alot of begging, lying, and play your cards right without getting killed. Although the risk of getting killed is not there, the possibility of getting a job is, and although I am known there for my passion, and am looked down upon by certain colleagues for my views.

Fortunately, I've been lucky enough to have assisted the music dept. chairman with video game music related issues. He has been very receptive to the idea of game music, and I had to work extremely hard in his classes to be recognized for my academic ability, enough so that I earned his respect for him to offer me a job to aid him in any situations which may involve game music. He has many clients whom are well known in the music field; Eminem, Dr. Dre, Madonna, Elton John, and many others. I cannot say which cases I was involved in, but he's kept me fairly busy.

As for my own musical work, http://www.myspace.com/danieldecastro.

I have an A.S. in Music Theory and Counterpoint, an A.S. in Music Technology, both from Queensborough Community College with honors, a B.A. in Music Composition from New York University (Magna Cum Laude), and now doing my M.A. there as well. Pardon me if some may find this pompous and arrogant of me to list my credentials, but it may help for some. If this does not matter to you, you can disregard this, and my apologies for my hubris.

Let me tell you how my experience has been in trying to create awareness of game music at these academic institutions. If there were a hell, that would be the appropriate description, but it was not without some good intelligent people who realized the worth of this field. Sadly, these were not the people in power at these institutions, and I'm pretty sure that the chairman is bound by some political restrictions to convince the director of the composition department to start at least a seminar in game music composition. I've encountered criticism after criticism from some very good students, and the director. It's led me to question my own intelligence and mental well being at times.

Fortunately, I believe I am a rational thinker, as philosophically, my stance as a freethinker aid me in my confidence to find truth in the claims others make, and thus far, I believe I've found a cauldron of Modernism disguised as Post Modernism amongst certain faculty and colleagues. They seem to like music of the abstract nature there, music in which the academics happen to find "Rock Music" influence where I would find no such things. There is an enormous interest in avant garde electronic music there inspired from composers like Edgard Varese, and a passion for instrumental music inspired by the musical language of Penderecki, Lutoslawski, Ligeti, and other composers of the sort. To many here, the majority of the music from those composers would seem unbearable abstract rubbish. Some call it "Egghead Music". To them it is anything but abstract, and the moment you demonstrate distaste with such a language, you are looked down upon as a "Closedminded" individual by the director at which point he will advise you to "Open your mind".

I consider myself to be one of the most openminded individuals on the planet! I would support the passions and preferences of the fans of the aforementioned composers at the cost of my life! But, why must I be made to feel guilty in being told to "Open My Mind" simply because I do not enjoy the works of their favorite composers? It's almost like the catholic priests I encountered who would tell me to open my mind when I proclaimed my philosophical atheism to them! I ask no such thing from others! But I do ask that as I respect the tastes an views of others, that my tastes are also respected. I take pride in challenging myself! Show me some evidence that god exists I say, and I am told "Oh, but you must have faith." I don't believe in faith I believe in reason! Give me a reason why I should open my mind to your music; "Because it will prepare you to do anything and everything in the music field, in your career". Can you show me evidence of that? No? Well guess what? I have evidence to the contrary. Most great composers of the current day will tell you something different, they will say, "Keep an open mind to all composers, even penderecki, lutoslawski, and ligeti". I hear no such thing from the director, and this man is a highly praised man by the students and faculty. He will smile at you, wave his hand to you, give you hugs, but the times I've shown him the music that I love, he's considered it simplistic, and is always quick to make negative or biased claims towards game music, claims like, "Game music is not concert music", or "It is clear that no one here is interested in learning about game music". He is not the only one of this opinion there, and it frightens me because it is terribly untrue. I've showed him some of the finest works written in game music, works of similar craft and substance as those of the masters we learn about in school.

During my first semester at NYU, I presented music from games to my class. I had selections from Heroes of Might and Magic 3, Final Fantasy 7's "One Winged Angel-orchestral", Final Fantasy X "Decisive battle", Overworld from Final Fantasy 7 orchestral, Siegfried's stage from Soul Blade, and even the work of a colleague that I found came closest to the standards academia might deem worthy of admiration and respect, but apparently, all of this music was too simplistic and was looked down upon by some of the smartest students. I felt very stupid, almost like there was something wrong with me. I gave descriptions to the class about how I felt regarding the atmosphere of the music using word like "Futuristic", "Fantasia", "Pastoral", "Heroic", "Brazen", and several other words, but was asked questions like "What makes music sound futuristic?" I felt terrible that I could not give a better answer at the time.

I tried again to do a presentation, but it was a failure; the equipment would not work as I wanted to set the music to a DVD I had created for the Chairman. I had received support from some of the students, and I knew of some who voiced their distaste with the obvious one-sidedness of the director's tastes at our composer's meeting where we would be subjected to music that the director believes listening to will prepare us for our careers. The majority of the students seem to lack interest in music that has harmonies, melodies, and rhythms derived from a mix of classical music, fusion jazz, pop, and world music. They are more interested in abstract music with use of "Max MSP", "C Sound", and other synthesis programs. So I had to go out of my way to search for music of this nature in games so that I could make a better impression. So I set out to searching, and had to put myself in the shoes of 85% of the students and faculty there.

I went to an underground game music piracy web server located in MIRC and downloaded over 130+ GBS of VG music MP3s. I listened to ALL of it and with the help of my IPaq personal computer, categorized and filed away only the best works in game music literature. Within over 3000 hours of game music, I realized that it is the most diverse source of music in the world. Game music has everything from Hip Hop to classical, Avant Garde to Jazz, and while proponents and fans from these genres may not see game music as the best example of these genres, it demonstrates the enormous potential there is for artists to contribute to meeting the high standards of game music for everyone. (Worry not, along with Sakimoto, Naoshi Mizuta was also on my list of favorite composers; I love them both).

Word spread that I had done this, and the chairman advised me to work on a thesis regarding Video Game Music. I was allowed to do my thesis on game music by NYU, how exciting! I can't say what my topic is, but lets just say that alot of trust was put in me. So I am currently working on this, and just this morning, I checked my e-mail to see that there is argument amongst my fellow game music fans. What a mess this is.. It really makes me sad, but also happy that there is such a passion for game music such that people would express their views about it on a message board like this.

I can go on and on about how much I've had to deal with, how much my feelings were hurt by colleagues and faculty, and how dumb I've been made to feel, but I go on, and I must be honest with the person who started this thread:

Although I love Naoshi Mizuta's work, I'm pretty sure academia will not. If we are to encourage the influence of Naoshi Mizuta's work to spread, We must please the academics, and so far, the academics have been very receptive to the music of Sakimoto, and they find it to be very high quality, including the work in Final Fantasy 12. I agree with them, and respect their knowledge and recognition of ANY game composer, and if Sakimoto helps to do it for them, Sakimoto has my respect. Yoko Kanno was praised and Masashi Hamauzu has been complimented as well. If the academics are please with my work, and one day I am asked to teach game music composition at this institution, Mizuta is definitely someone I will refer to in my lectures.

This is my current situation. If you've any questions, feel free to ask me, and I will answer, but I will do my best to start something new. Also, I encourage fans of game music to express their opinions in a civil manner; some of the comments here may only further fuel the conviction of certain academics that game music is nothing but fluff, kids stuff, and plagiarized music from people like Ravel or other composers of whom we'd be better off studying. If it fails amongst the fans, it will fail through the eyes of the academics, and we will never see great game music scoring courses come to fruition, for the sake of those who wish to seek a career in game scoring, or find it artful enough for personal expression.

I do care about what these people think; I trust that their intents are of a good nature. They wish to see us challenge ourselves and excel. Trust me when I say that some of your favorite composers in game music are some of the most intelligent, open minded, and talented persons on the face of the planet, and I wish for them to also be recognized and known as a fine example of human potential for eclecticism and open mindedness. I would die happy if I knew that academia gave a live concert of game music works as they have done for film music, classical music, and jazz music all of these years. It's high time.

Gradius V and Saga Frontier 2 I LIKE.

A LOT.

A HELL OF A LOT.

They're my favorites of his work followed lightly by FF Tactics. The rest of his stuff doesn't do much for me though. FF12 kinda bored me in spots. But what do I know. =\

Saga Frontier II is not Sakimoto's work.

Okay, so I'll blame Sakimoto for not having the heart to show his diversity in major works rather than for being poor instrumentals-wise.

....its not?


Then the tags I have on this thing are HELLACIOUSLY wrong. XD Who is it?

He tries to use a moderately consistent ensemble of instruments within his works but varies them between them. I guess he feels this is more artistic and I do feel it adds to the authenticity of his OSTs that this is so. However, I'd love Sakimoto to declare to the mainstream just how eclectic he is some day.

Dubble - Masashi Hamauzu.

Masashi Hamauzu.

Edit: Must learn how to spell...

The music was composed by Masashi Hamauzu, Dub (:

But...My point is if you were to force yourself to like ANY music to that extent by literally forcing yourself to have constant exposure to it, you would begin to like and understand it more (especially if a couple of pieces appealed to you in the first place, even to a minimal extent). What you just said was you didn't like Sakimoto's music at first and you forced yourself to end up liking it. If people made that effort for just about any composer, track or album they dislike at first, they would end up enjoying them (or at the least, appreciating them) at the end. I simply find that isn't the case in real life music listening. Hence, Sakimoto isn't an exception.

This thread is a circus!

No... I didn't force myself to like it. That's impossible. I forced myself to listen to it until I discovered just what it was about the music that was likable. It was well worth the effort.

And aside from that, how is my own listening not "real life" listening?

Heh, I understand what you mean. I just think there are way too many intanstly likable stuff in the VGM world to waste time with one just because he made scores to popular games. Because really, what was the initial reason for you to go further than your first impression ?

I wonder in what proportions is Sakimoto's fame due to him working for Square rather than his actual composer talents.

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/5...72055362vm.gif

Not necessarily. If I don't find the music interesting to begin with, it's unlikely that I'll enjoy it at a future date. It's not a matter of "enjoying" the music for me. I need it to have depth as well.

You can blame college for that, I suppose. ;)

What does that mean? I don't think he is famous, whatsoever.
I think Sakimoto has earned every inch of his 'success', or whatever you wish to call it. He is a skillful composer and can can create a large volume of tracks fairly quickly, which is a very valuable asset in today's video game industry and is also one of the reasons that he is so "popular" at the moment with various projects.
Are you going to assume that Sakimoto achieved all the fame and prestige based upon his employment at Square? I mean, for Christ sakes, he was only employed by Square for 2 measly years and has worked freelance since 2000, creating titles for literally dozens of companies.

I think Sakimoto got his real break with Mr. Matsuno who was working with Quest, at the time. (developer of Ogre Battle) Its the relationship that Sakimoto shared with Iwata and Matsuno that mainly bolstered his reputation for writing video game music.

When you add up all of the projects he has accumulated throughout his composing career, his time with Square is minimal at best.

By this, what do you mean? Are you saying that Square was responsible for exposing him to mainstream audiences? Or are you saying that Square aided him improving his musicianship in some way?

Either way, I appreciate where you're coming from, but Yasumi Matsuno was more significant than anyone else. Matsuno started at Quest with Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre before joining Square for Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story only to leave during Final Fantasy XII production. It's widely believed that Matsuno was integral to Sakimoto's refinement of his orchestral style. He provided plenty of feedback in the composer's first orchestral work, 1993's Ogre Battle, and also helped to define the approach of Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story, as well as allow him to express human emotion for the first time in Tactics Ogre.

As for the matter of circumstance, Matsuno is integral. Ogre Battle was so important in Sakimoto's Japanese recognition and, were it not for this Quest collaboration, he would never have followed Matsuno to score Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story (though his involvement in Treasure Hunter G was entirely separate). Interestingly, though, it was 1991's Magical Chase that started the Quest collaboration and it's thanks to Iwata, who had previously worked with Sakimoto on 1987's Revolter, that encouraged Quest to work with him.

Sakimoto is one of many of today's prominent VGM composers that have got to the top partly due to chance circumstances. However, the same applies to Nobuo Uematsu, Yasunori Mitsuda, Yoshitaka Hirota, Noriyuki Iwadare, Koichi Sugiyama, and many others I haven't done research on. The principle reason Sakimoto has stayed on top is because he's regarded as an excellent game composer by those who employ him, e.g. Matsuno. Apparently, the same can't be said for Iwata, though Basiscape has given his career a nice lift.

I disagree with Rain that Sakimoto isn't at all famous. He's got a lot of fans and is increasingly becoming a familiar name among mainstream RPG fans. He's had fans since 1993 and continues to have a growing fanbase.

I don't believe Sakimoto is a household name like Uematsu or Mitsuda.
I believe there are plenty of composers that get more recognition than Sakimoto so I am speaking of Sakimoto's fame via comparison to other prominent and well regarded composers in the industry.

Thank you. /thread

:argh: Datschge, you're fired.

You can do that with anyone and end up with the same effect. I don't understand why you would force yourself to listen to something if you didn't think there was something deeper there for you to enjoy to begin with. You sounded like you really wanted to enjoy Tactics and you kept listening until you actually did.

So...I take it you give every single composer (including ones you like and ones you dislike) this same exact treatment? As far as "real life" listening goes, I simply don't have the time to extend to appreciating and enjoying music from composers and albums I see little appeal in, considering how much is out there. Although oddly enough, Tactics is one of the OST's I've probably spend the most amount of time at least making an attempt to enjoy. It's not bad...I have a much higher opinion of it now than I did back in 99 and it's far more enjoyable than either Vagrant Story or FFXII (both of which I lost interest in), but I still only have about 1/4 of it on my harddrive.

Maybe not "enjoy", but repeated listening will give a better overall understanding of it, even if you hated everything about it.

I suppose that's true. I admit that I have an enormous bias against music outside of a classical background. The downside of music school is that they spend four years telling you exactly what you like and what you shouldn't like and after a while, it's easier (although not necessarily right) to go with the flow. I'll probably spend the next four years deconstructing everything I was taught. ;)

:eye: Bollocks. I know what I like...understanding something more elaborately can oftentimes lead to enjoying it more, I don't care what it is. From a blade of grass, to the inner workings of a space shuttle to a swiss clock. Understanding is a means for appreciating. Without a basis for understanding, there is sometimes no sense of perspective with which to grasp a particular principle or metholody, so a subjects true worth evades us.
Uncovering intricacies which display the capabilities for exploring new worlds, await us at nearly every turn. This is true in almost every sense, in everything that we do as humans, least of all in regards to music.

Ahh so it's relative, not absolute like initially stated. I agree with you, though most of the composers that get more fame seem still set in the past to me, Sakuraba aside. I'm fascinated to see what all his 2007 works will be like and whether he'll manage to exert the same individuality between his scores.

Relative, yes of course. I thought you would've learned to read my mind by now. ;)

I think deservedley good things await Mr. Sakimoto.

I... really don't see your point. If you want to write game music... I don't see the process being much more complicated than the following:

Step 1 - Get degree in music composition
Step 2 - Submit resume to game company

In fact, from what I read, you've already completed step 1. What does it matter what those other putzes at your school think?

Even in an alternate universe where you changed the face of academia and inspired professors to teach game music composition courses, it would be quite fruitless. There are like a million game design/programming courses offered at every nowheresville school on the planet now, and not a damn one of them is actually respected by game developers or publishers - what makes you think a VGM composition degree would be any different?

Additional Spam:
Actually, technically speaking, it doesn't really apply to Nobuo. He got his credit because he did a fantastic job pushing what VGM could be with the 5-channel NES sound chip. 3 times. He didn't get to where he is because he worked with Squaresoft; Squaresoft was going to go bankrupt if Final Fantasy failed.

They have a film music composition program at NYU, and at USC, both of which have proven their worth due to faculty who know their way and have good taste in film music. This exposure to the finest examples of film music help to shape the ears of the composers in the curriculum, and allows them to focus on techniques exclusive to film composition.

As one who is in constant interaction with film scoring students, I've absorbed the best examples of film music, and believe that I am not alone when I say that there are examples in game music which exceed the quality and better capture the things I seek overall in music. There are also techniques and standards exclusive to game music in that game music incorporates elements that are not limited to the classical field, the jazz field, nor the film music field. It actually takes the best from all of these fields, including fields outside of academic institutions like the hip-hop, pop, techno, world, and other fields which have been fused with the styles taught at universities that make game music all the more distinct. We can begin to elaborate on why these composers are so talented/eclectic, and begin a discourse amongst students that is most appropriately played out in an academic setting.

A game scoring course would be a fusion of all the existing departments, and finally, the music genres that have been shunned by academics like hip-hop and the other controversial styles of music which academia erroneously deems a cliche. VG music consists of composers more eclectic than anywhere in the world, and I will support this claim by citing Yoko Kanno as the Chameleon of music composition; a Video Game composer. My course would be very different from other courses in that my students would be encouraged to follow their path, whatever it may be, while at the same time taking into account that the best game composers have been the most eclectic ones, and this is a challenge and goal that the academic environment can best meet due to the interaction which can take place between the various departments, an interaction which is sorely missing due to the opposing attitudes of the various camps.

Ultimately, when I say that I love game music most, I'm also saying that I love ALL music just as much because again, it takes the best from ALL the fields and immortalizes it to a new generation. If one wishes to be a great game composer, they cannot have biases; they must be ready to do it all, and again, I will model after Yoko Kanno. I want only success for my students, and I would best ensure that success by taking the best methods utilized by the most successful lecturers, and focus on the finest examples of game music.

So let me ask you, why should we have a film scoring major and not a game scoring major? Or do you think this too is a waste of time? Why have any major at all? Or are you a film music fan moreso than a game music fan?

Believe me, I would have learned alot more if I had professional music theoreticians talking about what is going on in works which interest game music fans, and there are many of us. Instead of Beethoven, why not talk about Naoshi Mizuta or Masashi Hamauzu? Hamauzu has done far more for me than Beethoven ever has quite frankly.

I agree when you say there are many makeshift game development courses out there, but this is NYU were talking about here, and I've the skills to do what it takes to lead one's ear in the right direction, to understand and be aware of the standards set by the finest composers. Many people have not a clue of the enormous wealth of quality music that rests in the gaming world, and if these uninformed and biased opinions of game music are to cease, they must be quelled with the evidence. Video game composers should be recognized as human beings as well as great composers, and if I do not do this now, noone else will. I believe that only then will music schools be set in the right direction, and game composers are examples of composers who will unite all schools of musical thought. This is my goal, and I know I can do it, through awareness and the desire to promote a scientific and cultural community engaged in higher education and peer-reviewed research, taken as a whole to help push and stimulate high quality game music production.

Additional Spam:
Here, take a listen to my music and tell me if you think I've the chops to teach game composition. All of my works are inspired from game music in some way, and all the works are a product of the extensive listening I've done in game music. Believe me, if I can do it, anyone can. The story of how I began composing is very interesting. I should also mention that a game music course would also require strong cooperation with the music technology department, you do need to learn MIDI and synthesis after all.


http://www.myspace.com/danieldecastro

Keep in mind that no work written here is written after age 23. I am currently 26, and have many new works, but do not wish to show just yet. I know it's arrogant of me to say but I really like my own music, and I believe that others can do a better job at absorbing influences than I can. I apologize if you don't like it, I tried my best. I started writing music at age 19, and have been told that my music is doctoral level work by faculty at NYU. I had NO musical training prior to that. They only recently found out that it is all a product of game music, and I can only imagine the ability that brighter minds than I would gain if exposed to great music from games they never knew existed. I owe a big thanks to game composers for my accomplishments, and know that they have inspired many others. I merely wish to bring it to the next level.

I don't really get your point, Dat. =/

And Rainman and Maul, yes I do claim that Sakimoto would'nt have 20% of his current popularity if you withdrew his work for Square from his discography, especially the FF stuff. My point is that the VGM industry is full of little Sakimotos who just didnt have the chance to work for game series as exposed as he did. No problem with that, that's the way it is in all medias. But here I was originally answering Piccolonamek who said he had to give Sakimoto's music time to grew on him. My point was that he probably wouldnt have given it time if it havent been from a series he loved. So yeah, I'm not saying Sakimoto is bad, just that he is nothing special. ~_~

I was referring to the circumstances that made him famous, not the musical quality of his work. If it weren't for encouragement from a friend and Final Fantasy's success, Nobuo Uematsu would never be famous. Circumstances like these seem to underpin the careers of many of today's most famous musicians. It was often a matter of circumstance which individuals became famous.

Give me some names. I haven't heard a single game composer comparable to Sakimoto in musicianship.

I didn't disagree with that, but the reason he's working on FF goes much deeper than he got contracted by the company one day. It's all due to Yasumi Matsuno.

Oh I'm not saying whose music is comparable. I'm just talking in terms of being able to do a decent enough job at it so the fans don't hate it. And what fans don't hate, they love.

niki, you surely know how much percentage of his popularity would Nobuo Uematsu have without FFs (as much as Uematsu is one of architects who made FF such a huge game).;) Without illegal download (perhaps it can be legal in some countries), I'm pretty sure few people would heard the Blue Dragon soundtrack. What you talked about Sakimoto can apply to all composers.

Indeed, we know why you bothered to say it for Sakimoto. As you mentioned first, you simply can't understand the craze around Sakimoto at all and then felt liking inflaming Sakimoto supporters. So, you said 'people hear Sakimoto's music not because it's good, but because it's from FF or other franchises' :D

You're kinda radicalizing what I said. First of, I said myself that that's the way it is in all medias so you don't need to point that out for me. Even geniuses need chances and opportunities.

Secondly, you're mentioning Uematsu while at the same time infirming your point yourself. Like you said, Uematsu not only started working on FF from the very start, but he also contributed a lot on it's success. Now, I'm not saying fanboyism has nothing to do in his fame, and the fact the FF7 OST remains the most popular of his works is proof of that (*sigh*). But still, driving the train of success from day 1 isnt the same thing as jumping in when it has already reached full speed.

And again, I am not being scornful when I say this. That's the way things work and there's nothing wrong with it. I just personally see it as the true explanation of Sakimoto's recognition, rather than his actual talent.

As far as I know, Sakimoto's first super-mainstream work was FFT. I don't recall seeing his name prior to that (and I mean way back in 98-99-ish...Back when Uematsu, Mitsuda and maybe Simomura/Ito/Kikuta were the only VGM composers you "had" to know by name). And it WAS an impressive feat getting that type of sound out of a Playstation sound chip...That was one of the few games I remember hearing a lot of open praise for the music at the time. But would it have mattered on a game no one played? From there, he went on to the less-mainstream Vagrant Story and Breath of Fire V before settling into FF12. Those aren't all of his works, but those are probably his 4 main ones (not counting Ogre games). Therefore, I think it's fair to say he got his jumpstart from a well known game series, at least in the public's eye. I'm sure the 5-10 people outside Japan who knew of him prior to that were glad to see him get the publicity.

Like niki said, it's the same for everyone. In reality, Yasunori Mitsuda would still be a niche name without the Chrono games (massive understatement), Uematsu would just have been "another composer" in the NES age without Final Fantasy (with questionable prospects moving forward without the series...Rad Racer and 3D World Runner have fine music, but nothing that supercedes anything in the NES age) and even a hack like Naoshi Mizuta would still be lingering in obscurity without a true FF game to his name (as he did with Capcom, as a third or forth string composer). Look no further than Noriyasu Agematsu and Masato Kouda, who are getting their chance with the Wild Arms series after years of niche projects (and Michiko Naruke, who was completely obscure prior to getting the original Wild Arms gig and now has raging fanboys emailing her to update her friggin website and worrying about her health). And hell...No one gave a fuck about Masashi Hamauzu or Junya Nakano until after FFX. I remember how tepid the response was when both were announced to be working on the next FF game. Both SF2 and Dewprism had their fans, but not in the ravenous sense you see both supported in nowadays (though maybe Hama more than Naka). And you still never see Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon or Another Mind come up in hardly any type of conversation.

Well, probably I can't read your points correctly, but you're now saying Sakimoto is recognized well because he has worked on SE games, but I thought you initially said no small Sakimoto fans loved his music not because he had a talent, but because he had worked on SE games. The name of Final Fantasy and other franchises certainly help composers to be recoginzed worldwide, but it depends on thier actual talents whether they are loved or hated. Like Matsueda and Eguchi, they can fail. Indeed, I can't disagree Sakimoto also failed, since those who dislike Sakimoto's works prior to FFXII are most likely to dislike the FFXII soundtrack too.

That sounds to me as if Sakimoto owes his entire popularity to only one FF production, or Sakimoto deprived Uematsu of FF fanbase. Like Uematsu, Sakimoto also has contributed to the games led by Matsuno and majority of his current fanbase consists of fans from those games, rather than FFXII. If you assume Sakimoto jumped to the popular composer after FFXII, but it's plain wrong. According to mixi, his fanbase is still even smaller than Ito, Shimomura and Kikuta after FFXII.

So, I really can't understand how come you bothered to post it, though there was nothing wrong with it and we could say the same thing for every composer...


EDIT:I also think GFX's description hits the nail, as far as composer's recognition goes.

Actually, in Japan, Sakimoto became a popular name with 1993's Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen and 1995's Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together. He also won quite a bit of fame with Shippu Mahou Daisakusen and Magical Chase. In terms of Western attention, Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story were definitely the turning points. In some ways, the latter more so as it was a solo project whereas Masaharu Iwata has never received much Western attention despite his significance pre-VS in Sakimoto's career.

Definitely. That's my point exactly, but expressed more eloquently and persuasively. Basically the reason I found niki's initial statement curious.

Worcester Polytechnic Institute has a major in Interactive Media and Game Development. WPI happens to be the second best engineering school in Massachusetts (probably in New England, and most of the United States if you exclude schools like Caltech and Rochester), second only to MIT if I remember correctly. I haven't heard of their program being any more successful than any of the every-schools.

I'll give your work a listen, but not at the moment because I am crippled with a sickness that seems to be ending the entire Boston area one person at a time, and so my judgment is probably not extremely good at the moment.

For the record - try to trim down the length of your posts. I don't really have the patience to read them word for word, and given how few people responded directly to you, I doubt many of the others did. I promise I'll listen to your music, though.

Hmm yeah ok I understand your PM now. Thought it refered to your other posts. ~_~

Meh anyway, I'm not going to explain myself one more time. Keep interpreting what I say in the most radical way, I guess.

I'm just not fond of these negative threads (anymore). It would be a nice change of pace if there were such active threads discussing different composers' abilities in constructive, not destructive ways. That's all.

I'm sorry for your sickness, I hope you get better! My girlfriend lives in Somerset MA, hopefully it doesn't spread too far.

Your claims are interesting. Do you have peer reviewed articles that demonstrate them? Anyhow, I think this is a different situation regardless. If what you say is true, it wouldn't affect me as we're not talking about programming and design; we're speaking about development of musical talent, and ability to provide that which is expected of you while understanding the standards set by the field, and the possibilities available for bringing both art and craft to the game table; a totally different animal. Also, you need to take my qualifications and curriculum into consideration before you can truly judge, and this is something I don't believe an internet forum appropriate for. Such things are done over the phone via an academic institution, or face to face.

I have alot of confidence in my ability to teach game music via the eclectic method I use. I have lived it and breathed it since age 6, and understand it's audience. I know how to help people find their language and interest. I would nurture that wholeheartedly without bias, and this is something that seldom exists in academia.

I have studied the game music curriculum they teach at USC and it is severely limited. According to a colleague there, they are only talking about American game composers many with a film music background. While I have great respect for names like Soule, Giacchino, Rob King, and others, they fail to elaborate on the works of the Japanese masters, and I think this would prevent a wonderful body of high quality music from being recognized, absorbed, and evolved. I have expertise in both as I have listened extensively to both western and eastern approaches to game scoring, and both styles have something very special to offer.

Sure they talk about Koji Kondo at that school, but for goodness sakes, a few memorable tunes isn't all the Japanese have to bring to the table ;).

Anyhow, I'm bringing something unique to the table that they are not, and history shows that such openmindedness produces the best results. I look to Nadia Boulanger for the example of great teaching and would do my best to make a game music course worthwhile.

You're right! Just listen to this stunning compositional genius from the main theme of a 2006 Wii title. I am completely baffled that music of this calibre isn't being taken seriously in academia.

Sorry if I have continued to miss your point, niki. I believe you missed mine quite a few times too. Communications breakdown on both sides.

I don't often care whether a discussion of a composers' abilities is destructive, but I find declarations like 'Hitoshi Sakimoto is an absolutely TERRIBLE composer' thoroughly irritating. Of course, I'm known for endless destructive ranting, so I'm a hypocrite too.

While your reference to Koji Kondo is understandable, I find it a bit generalised that you think he's only capable of a few memorable tunes. I think Ocarina of Time is wonderful on a creative and technical level, even if it's not especially complex. It fits the game wonderfully too. Star Fox 64 and Super Mario 64 were also creative works, albeit less consistent.

Did I say thats what I thought?

Apologies for also making a generalisation. Given your statement and how people often interpret his work, I wrongly asusmed you were a Kondo basher.

Not at all, and no worries, I understand. I admire Kondo's work greatly. Dark Overworld from Zelda SNES is one of my all time favorite works from the 16-bit era. I hope they do a complete orchestral rendition of it someday as I am not too impressed with the brief orchestral version they put together, unless there is a version out there of which I am not aware.

I suppose I should post my credentials here, because they offer some sort of insight to who I am. I'm simply a high school senior, one who has slowly developed interest in the genre that Game Music has to offer. Understandably, I do not believe that a Bachelors or Masters degree in a certain subject should have any relation whatsoever to the merits of any statement from any of the posters, but I do understand the differences between major and minor chords.

My number one fear of Game Music fans is the denouncement of any certain composer just because a style may seem somewhat bland. The reason is extremely simple: Game Music by itself is an all-encompassing genre. As Daniel DeCastro states, Game Music is a mix of rock, jazz, synth, easy listening, and classical genres of music, often combining different styles into a single soundtrack (although I'd say rap usually isn't involved). I give you a few more overtly obvious examples of what everyone here will think is distasteful music:

Onegai Teacher Sound Collection 1: 26 - Depressed
Narue no Sekai Original Soundtrack: 05 - The First Date
Hikaru no Go Original Soundtrack: 27 - Little by Little

Note that the genre I happen to be criticizing right now is Anime Music. I'm not trying to say that all Anime Music is bad, but I'm saying that there are deservedly certain tracks from Japanese Animation that are either so overdone or so simple that it could never be suitable for listening alone. Now, I want to become more controversial that in my opinion could be absolutely distasteful by introducing a few tracks from the Game Music genre.

Ace Combat Zero The Belkan War Original Soundtrack: 219 - Zero //Kobayashi

The orchestration in this song is completely overdone and fails to deliver. The songs vocals especially jive with the spanish guitars in the background and fail to deliver a sense of energy. The male choir sounds absolutely muddled in the background.

Final Fantasy VII Original Soundtrack: 416 - One Winged Angel //Uematsu

The track is way too obvious, because every single part of the phrase combined to form a single coherent and biting melody. Even in the orchestral editions of the theme, there is no art to the song, and any normal major would have been able to compose it.

Chrono Trigger Original Sound Version: 119 - Frog's Theme //Mitsuda

Again, if we compare this song to the wondrous works of Debussy and Chopin, this song does not contain any of the similar melody and backing harmonies that make any piece aesthetic. Instead, it contains just a single march with alternating drums in the background. Seriously, oversimplified.

Final Fantasy XI Promathia no Jubaku Original Soundtrack: 24 - Gustaberg (Bonus Edition) //Mizuta

The song tries to evoke a certain relaxed image or feeling, yet it becomes boring almost immediately. In order to become better, the song would have to rid itself of the ugly guitar in the background, and actually attempt to use a real melody. Otherwise, this piece is just terrible.

Final Fantasy XII Original Soundtrack: 416 - The Battle for Freedom //Sakimoto

The chords in this song are completely muddled into one, making it absolutely horrible for a final battle theme. In fact, the instruments sound only like noise, because they completely jive with each other and never create a true honest battle melody. The song is also stretched way too long, especially with the introduction really covering four minutes of the nine-minute song.

Angry? Good. I'm sure that you will like at least one of these songs, if not with the zeal of a crazy fan, at least slightly. If you take a look at the five above tracks, each of them evokes a completely different image and really uses a different style. I could name even more melodies from soundtracks such as Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune, Chrono Cross Original Soundtrack, Phantasy Star Original Soundtrack, Wild Arms Original Soundtrack(s), Yoko Kanno's surprisingly similar anime albums, or different albums from the Megaman Series. The truth is, I've heard individuals have these complaints with the above five pieces; that’s why they could be considered absolutely distasteful by some. I suggest you compare these five tracks, with at least one coming from the absolutely abysmal Hitoshi Sakimoto to the bland melodies listed from the three anime series above. If there is some music that can be considered a threat to academia or your ears, then the three songs above must be nominated before the music from the games I have just listed.

If you find Hitoshi Sakimoto’s music truly bland, I suggest that you take another listen and see how the elements of the song compare to other tracks from Game Music. This time, keep an open mind, understanding that yes, it’s possible for me to gain an interest in Final Fantasy XII Original Soundtrack. In all honesty, BurningRanger posted an anonymous track at the very top from this soundtrack asking anyone to identify and question it. I agree that somebody may not be able to immediately identify it as a desert, per se, but the Eastersands make up a wild expanse of a variety of different creatures, including wolves and cacti, that make it an especially-bustling first track that creates a sense of freedom. I understand that in the end, Final Fantasy XII Original Soundtrack might not be completely suitable for your tastes, but don’t immediately ignore it and claim that Hitoshi Sakimoto doesn’t even deserve to be a composer.

The reason game music is its own genre is seriously because it is all-encompassing. When I take a look at all of the users who listen to game music during their spare time, I honestly believe that most of them are very open about different types of songs. I could say that my number one reason for listening to VGM is that it puts different styles of music on a single floor, one where there are no limitations to what can be done, except for the fact that the music has to emotionally affect people (through either stimulation, tears, wonder, anxiety, or anything similar). The game music community needs to focus on the positive aspects of each and every composer, understanding that what each individual prefers may not always be the same. It is appropriate to say “I like this song because of X” or “I do not like this song because of X,” but it is never correct to automatically denounce a composer as awful. Strong opinions about certain authors are sometimes good; but music, in the end, is always subjective.

By the way, if any of you were wondering, I absolutely love those five game tracks I listed.

Although I too have noticed somewhat repetitive-ness in his music for some scores, i have to say wait until you hear his work on Romeo x Juliet before you've made up your mind about him (although it seems you already have). Most, if not all criticisms about 'when to use what' doesn't seem to be present in this, IMO (although i haven't seen the anime yet, just worked on the soundtrack.) Plus this score is almost fully orchestral, rather than synthesised, so theres alot more potential for 'emotion'.

I think also another factor is the way the director describes the scene to the composers, although granted a composer shouldn't make 'walking around music' sound the same... but he has alot of fans, so he must be doing something right! :p

A fine post Arch Slayer, better than I could've done in my HS senior year (Well, by default I could not have done so at all; I dropped out of high school at age 16 due to a trauma experience; I got a GED when I was 18.)

With regards to hip hop, I do recall an interview where Uematsu states that he is influenced by hip-hop:

Q: "What do you think of the evolution of gaming machines in music?"

A: "Everything is becoming simpler in that I can do anything I want. Because I can have sound sampling in PSX or SNES, it's even possible to surprise the audience by orchestrated hits. Still, I think everything isn't perfect yet. I don't think there is meaning to using sampling to mimic real instruments. If I were to use sampling, *I would like to use it in a hip-hop kind of way*. I think we're in the midst of a transition from synth game music to recorded game music right now."

Source: http://www.ffmusic.info/ff8ostliner.html

As one who has listened extensively to hip-hop, it's influence can be found in certain rhythms and looping techniques. Parrapa the Rapper comes to mind, and boy does the composer understand hip-hop well. I actually like some of those beats =). It is no Biggie Smalls, or Dr. Dre, but it does demonstrate the eclecticism of the composers and the important presence of the hip-hop genre in games. Katamary Damaci had a Japanese Rap, and Yoko Kanno has written hip-hop beats as well. I have too, not that it matters to some. It is quite prominent, believe it or not, Grand Theft Auto being a more literal example, but probably doesn't count for some.

Oh, yeah I guess you're right.

And Maul, I see no problems really. Again, and that'll be my final disclaimer since this is quickly becoming a musical discussion by and for musicians, I don't hate Sakimoto and there are many things I like a lot about him. I just don't think he's all that special, but then again I don't think many of nowadays popular VGM artists are. May be just me ~

I thought I'd throw in my opinion as well, just to show my support for Sakimoto. He is one of my favorite composers. The posters who've shown their enthusiasm for Sakimoto have said things about him that I would second. His music has influenced me greatly, and I do consider him a musical genius. If you don't like his music and focus on certain aspects of music, that's great! If anything, this fact sheds more light on how different people react differently to different types of organized sound. Why that is exactly would make for very interesting discourse.

It could be anything from one's personal philosophy, sociological conditioning, musical exposure, anything, and it is this fact that I find most intriguing. It is another reason I decided to take a course in psychology of music, and I would advise those who have not already done so to consider doing some research on the cognitive findings in relation to music. If you'd really like more insight on why people like certain music, I'm sure doing the research would be helpful.

Does anyone here experience Galvanic Skin Response or "Goosebumps", "Chills" etc. when listening to Sakimoto's music? If not, have you ever experienced this with other music or no music at all? I for one get it alot from Sakimoto, it is a really nice experience. I should note that GSR is not merely the physical experience of goosebumps, but a heightened emotive state of mind in which one's brain is stimulated with a rush of mental imagery, sense of atmosphere, past memories, ecstasy, stress relief, and other related difficult to explain cognitive experiences.

I'll talk more about why I'm interested in this when I've received adequate responses or a show of interest.

I personally receive stress relief from Yasunori Mitsuda's music instead of Hitoshi Sakimoto's pieces. The type of mental imagery I feel from Sakimoto is more of a mode of stimulation, especially due to the complexities of his songs. The instruments that Sakimoto uses can no way be expressed as simple.

What I meant by rap was that I have a certain negative bias towards the vocal element of rap music (moreso because of the lyrics rather than the music itself), but the melodies of hip-hop and the style that it encompasses certainly works well with game music. The only thing that I believe is that game music should not be equal to hip-hop, and it certainly isn't.

Game music is hip hop and *alot* more, lyrics or not. This is not to challenge you on your bias, if you don't like the lyrics, that's great.

As for Mitsuda, yeah, I can see that too. I feel the same way, sometimes I like to kick back and throw on June Mermaid from time to time.

To Sakimoto's music, no...I've enjoyed several pieces of his a great deal, but never to that extent. I have with plenty of music in general though, so I know what you're refering to, although it's generally a one-shot deal...The tracks where the effect lasts for more than a couple listens are few and far between (or at least require time to recharge between listens).

Yes, all the time.

Science of Art:

http://mixingmemory.blogspot.com/200...chandrans.html

http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~dyer/ah336/p...cience-art.pdf

These articles may be of interest regarding what happens in the brain when having such an experience. The articles are from world famous scientist V.S. Ramachandran. If anyone watches the science channel, he's been on several shows regarding the "Brain Man" Daniel Tammet, an autistic savant, and a proponent of mirror neurons, discussions on the existence of god, etcetera. Here are a few more links if any are interested. You will see evidence of how Daniel reacts to numbers as you and I do to Sakimoto's music. Whatever is going on with us may very well be special, and I would advise that you continue to search for and enjoy the music that you do most. I believe doing so has helped to aid me in my music composition ability.

Brain Man:

http://science.discovery.com/converg...eogallery.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoNcmQydD7U

God and the Brain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIiIsDIkDtg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z4B5...elated&search=

Ramachandran on Mirror Neurons and God:

http://beyondbelief2006.org/Watch/wa...eo=Session%204

http://beyondbelief2006.org/Watch/wa...o=Session%2010


I notice you are a Christian based on the link in your tag Piccolo. Well, I am an atheist, and we both seem to get GSR from Sakimoto, another interesting fact. The work Ramachandran has done shows that similar "peak" cognitive experiences involving GSR are found for reactions to the arts and spiritual experiences. I believe that when I as an atheist experience GSR, it is the same as when a theist experiences communion or contact with God, i.e. a "spiritual experience".

This is very interesting to me, so I thought I'd share that with you PiccoloNamek.

It is important to note that people experience varying degrees of GSR, and some are more sensitive to it than others, and some don't experience goosebumps at all. If you do experience GSR, I believe it is easier for you to identify what it is that you seek in music than those who do not. This is not to suggest that those who do not are unable to, I simply imagine that it would be more difficult. If you do, take advantage of it.

Actually, I'm a very staunch atheist. I just work for the church. Odd, I know, but that's the way it is. The opportunity presented itself, and I took the job.

Hehe, I have a musician friend who is also atheist, and he performs for churches. Not unusual, but rare. This Reminds me of the scene in Star Ocean: TTEOT, when Cliff and Fayt are in a church, and Fayt says, "I thought you didn't believe in this stuff, why did we come to the church?" At this point, Cliff says, "It's because I enjoy the art." I thought that was one of my favorite RPG moments ever.

What are your duties there? Musician?

I wonder if Sakimoto is an atheist. Yoko Kanno already stated her non-religious status, most Japanese are rather secular. Would be interesting to find out.

I just find Sakimoto's style as interesting as it is moving. I like all the rhythm you find in his music and the melodic points seem to come at just the right times. Compared to much of the traditional orchestral stuff from western composers that some folks like to criticize, Sakimoto's music tends to have more pep, which for me puts him on top. You say that he has trouble writing incidental aka event music but I don't think it's that simple. As fate would have it, most of the games he has written music for haven't lent themselves to that kind of music, and so his style is often presented in epic form. However, when he does get the opportunity, he does a fine job. He just isn't as obvious about it as Uematsu or Mitsuda. For me Sakimoto's style makes his music unique and lasting. It's the kind of music that I can listen to over and over again not just because I like the way it sounds but also because the composition intrigues me. But to agree with what someone else said, I don't care much for these negative threads either. People have their reasons for liking or disliking whatever. Asking why someone feels differently is great, but I don't like the whole, "Sakimoto is in fact terrible...so how could anyone like him?" approach. It doesn't bode well for a discussion when the person starting it already has their mind made up.

I can really relate to him, then. Although I am an atheist, I really enjoy the solemn ritual of the traditional Anglican services my church holds.

I am the sound tech. I usually run the sound board on sundays and for weddings or funerals, or any other special occasion. I also work for the church's side business, "A Word from the Lord" editing sermons for radio broadcast.

Just to chime in, Sakimoto has been a mixed bag for me at times, but much more appealing than disappointing to me. The most recent works I can compare would be FF12. I'll admit, it took a bit to grow used to the soundtrack, and I feel it has some very good tracks, and then some average ones. Melody is not always his strong point, but he is very good at making his work imaginative, as in you can form a picture almost. He can use a wide range of genres in his works, though classical is a strong point for him.

For Example, the track The Royal City of Rabanastre / Town Ward Upper Stratum, even without giving the title, I feel you could describe a town or village setting to go with the music, the battle tracks feel like battle tracks, dungeon themes fit the dungeons, so on and so forth. But I feel this adds to the music rather than take away from it. Sure, you would most likely like them more after playing the game, but you can enjoy his works alone as well.

I feel that he is one of the more unique composers in the VGM field, not for everybody, but I find it hard not to at least respect what he is trying to accomplish. But, opinions are opinions, everyone has them.

To illustrate this point, I've created a comparison audio file between the synth version of the FF12 opening theme that was used for trailers, and the orchestral version that was used in the final game's opening FMV. The theme was edited from the trailer and parts of the music were placed in different places in the FMV. I simply took those parts and arranged them so that the synth version plays first, and then the orchestral. There should be around4 - 5 motifs in the mp3.

http://media.putfile.com/FF12-Openin...and-orchestral

I made this because I had a very recent discussion with my boyfriend, who wasn't too impressed with Sakimoto as well, although I believe that he needed to hear more of his work, and that his work will sound less "messy" as he called it if it was orchestrated instead of using synths. Unless the synths are Jeremy Soule's quality, Sakimoto should work with real orchestras more often.

RomeoXJuliet is another fine example of how his work just shines out when its performed by a real full orchestra.

I seem to be the exception even in Sakimoto supporters. When first hearing Vagrant Story's score I'm thrilled at its beauty. And when I listen to FFTactics, I can immediately distinguish his work from Iwata's. It's not that I don't like Iwata's work, I just found Iwata's work less... personal than Sakimoto's.

Sakimoto's music made me goosebumps. Just a seemingly random chord progression penned by him can do that for me. I can listen to a piece continuously for a hundred times and I don't feel bored in any way. I already knew I love dissonance and weird stuff etc because he's not the first controversial 'noisemakers' that I hear and love immediately (The first one is Elliot Goldenthal for his frenetic Final Fantasy TSW score which I still adore so much today, especially the most noisy Toccata and Dreamscape cue). Also, his music fits the game perfectly. To say I love it because it's complex is by no means correct; I did't have a clue why I love this music so much until much later.

To exaggerate a little bit, I think the experience when listening to Sakimoto's music is somewhat like staying with a girlfriend - I don't have one (and I'm male, despite the username :D) - you know what I mean.

Admittedly, I myself also found FFXII OST a little bland, and out of place, in some places. Overuse of bitonality in a not so cool way is one of the reasons, IMO. And some repetitive orchestration techniques. Suspended cymbals come to mind, which is something he's been using for 4-5 years. I didn't hear that in Vagrant Story that often. I can still hear them in Romeo x Juliet, but I found it harder to notice. Maybe it has something to do with the synthesizer?

But somehow Sakimoto can always give me surprises. When I found the main theme of Grim Grimoire quite lacking, there's Opoona that sounds so promising; let alone Romeo x Juliet, whose orchestral pieces sounds so much like a Hollywood score, but with enough Sakimoto trademarks, and the chamber pieces are so lovely and emotional, even out of context.

But if you have the chance, you must listen to Vagrant Story's score thoroughly. And try NOT to think of a scene. I hope that would change you opinion just a little bit. :P

While we're on the subject of Grim Grimoire... a rip can be found here:http://www.sendspace.com/file/7gzu6e.

I think this is good enough to sate my Sakimoto hunger for a little while until Romeo X Juliet is released :). Plus not only do you get to hear Sakimoto's music, but you will also hear Masaharu Iwata here as well. Enjoy!

It looks like Sakimoto might be Vanillaware's main composer. Since he did the music for Grim Grimoire and Odin Sphere.

Has some kind of OST been released for Odin Sphere or is the game still in development.

EDIT (Grim Grimoire Link on Josh's post in dead - http://www.sendspace.com/file/9mpylg)

When you hear his "ending movie" of FFXII, what could you not like about that? The chord progressions used there are very nice not?

What truly astonished me was 3:53 where he used this incredible symmetry in chords. One melody going up, the bass going down.

la
sol si
fa la do
mi sol si re
re fa la do mi
mi sol si re
fa la do
sol si
la

You get it? This chord progression, he just invented one and has a patent on it. No other composer may use that chord progression anymore... (talking about symmetry, 100th post...)

RyuFAN, Odin Sphere is not out but will be next month, here's a new trailer:

http://movie.atlusnet.jp/os/download/os_pv.zip

Music sounds very good in any case, it's exactly what I love about Sakimoto.

As for this thread... Sakimoto is easily my favorite game composer, and perhaps favorite composer period (outside of normal music of course), because his music is just very engaging, there's a ton of different things happening in every one of his tracks, and a ton of awesome progressions throughout his tracks, plus I love the signature sound of his instrumentation.
For example, I keep coming back to FFXII's soundtrack just to hear all the different things that are going on, and I regularly discover new elements to the tracks even after already having heard them so many times.
Imo, if you play a game with Sakimoto's music, there's no way to get around it, it's just 100% part of the experience and a lot of games would feel entirely different without his music.

I heard a piece of Odin Sphere at the Night in Fantasia concert and it was lovely, even my boyfriend who didnt like Sakimoto's work that much loved it. Said it was stronger than what he heard in tactics or FF12.

And the solo violin is played by Yura from Eminence, in both the game's soundtrack and the concert.

He's changes his style a lot... although his trademark harmony is still there and the parts are hard as hell. I like his sincereness and his approach to music.