Shinzo Abe: "What Sex Slaves?"
 

This news has been floating around lately. I'm surprised there has been no discussion here.


well, I really disappointed with Abe's statement, honestly. My granny is dutch descent, she told numerous story how Japanese military was sex-hungry monster during their imperial age. I'm grateful that my granny managed to avoid become sex slave, the worst was, she was being discriminated by japanese as 3rd class during their 3,5 years reign on East Dutch Indies. :(

We all adore japan's culture, but this news make me realize we should also not forget to be critical to japan.

No we don't. Wrong forum.

Lol. Thought this was about Abraham Lincoln having a few sex slaves a la Jefferson :( Whew! Would've been... Odd.

as did i. hah.


on a side note, more so than not, a fair share of people are fascinated with japan's culture. only it's mostly pointed at everyone and their mother thinking that anime is the complete representation of japan.


That article makes alot of sense though, and it is kinda depressing.

How do i put it, It's not so much that it's too crazy. It's too believable, it's too likely to abuse that kind of power. For him to deny it is pretty ballsy though.

Unfortunately, to at least most people here in the states, Japan is one of two things:

1. Just like an anime, with fancy technology everywhere, cute girls who squeal a lot, and the occasional robot attack.
2. Super traditional, where the men have swords at their sides and women wear kimono all the time.

Obviously, both views are far from the truth and a product of the movies/television/stories we've been exposed to. It's the only exposure we get to Japan here, through anime/manga/movies, so you can't blame that many people. Not too many people get to experience the real Japan. So you get a lot of Japan fans who think the country can do no wrong and its oh-so-much better than the states.

But of course, Japan has problems. And in this case, of the political nature. While problematic relations with the rest of Asia over the war is nothing new (Koizumi managed to rile them up every time he went to visit Yasukuni shrine), Abe's statement is pretty damn bold. I'm thinking this is more for his party support, since the LDP stance has always been pretty conservative. Unfortunately, he's willing to risk already poor international relations just for the sake of his party. Not a wise move on his part, but you gotta appease the people at home first before you do abroad (it's just politics).

In any case, I'm sure there would have been a less extreme way to do so. Not the best choice of words.

I've been following this a little... its rather depressing how the government just wont fess up. Hundreds of women witnesses (yet alone how many male witnesses there must be... lord only knows if they'll ever admit it though).

I watched a movie about the Vagina Monologues (they're basically skits about what women of the world go through), and the creator actually got a group of these comfort women together and asked them what it was like. Up to 20 men a day, during periods, abortions... horrible. One women said that her family is now ashamed of her for speaking up. Her children (not from any soldiers, but of her husband) wont talk to her because they blame her for letting the Japanese use her, and are ashamed that she's talking about it.

Sickening and heart-breaking. :(I really wish the Japanese government would just apologize. But that would be admitting they did wrong, and would cost them millions.

A official apology from the Japanese government would go a long way for those women. Even a vaguely worded one. "Oops, sorry we went to war and caused a few problems back then!".

I think it's more of a cultural thing then a financial liability that prevents them from admitting doing any wrong.

If anything, denying wrongdoing is more of a liability because it creates a popular sentiment that discourages doing business with the Japanese.

Systematic rape certainly isn't a problem now, so how would admitting past wrongdoings put Japan in a negative light?

Japan seems in general to have a big problem with his WWII past. It doesn't matter if you talk about crime or female sex slaves.

If it's true what I read then is the education in Japanese schools about WWII very bad.

And two another words: Yasukuni shrine.

Smooth move, Abe. That's really going to help the troubled Japan + Rest of Asia relations.

There has been a general reluctance in Japan for people to discuss the war. This has been the case since the end of the war and nothing is probably going to change that attitude for awhile.

Japan has a very different stance on the war than Germany does. In Germany, holocaust denial is a criminal offence. They've been open and admitting about their role. However, in Japan, no such laws about war denial exists, which means all viewpoints (including the denials) get equal hold. While it's great for free speech purposes, it lets viewpoints similar to Abe's get broadcasted on a national level.

So unfortunately, I think it might just be the case that he actually does believe what he says. I'm hoping it's ignorance and misinformation rather than any actual attempt to provoke his Asian neighbors.

Why I'll continue to respect Abe (he and Koizumi were the best things to happen to that office in quite a long while), he's needlessly provoking people now while ignoring several real, more important problems in his country. I've studied a lot of countries' histories in-depth, so I'm surprised that I'm about to use a stereotype here, but is he really concerned about repainting everyone's views of Japan's atrocious acts during their imperialist days (and I have no problems with imperialism, either)?

A large reason for the lack of discussion (or an apology, for that matter) from the Japanese government is because after WWII there was no systematic dismantling and condemnation of the ruling power. Military generals were charged, but many people continued to serve the Japanese government after the war in exchange for whatever favors the US government needed (such as medical documents from Unit 371, or simply credibility towards the people). Since the US never spent the time condemning the Japanese government at the time for its actions (instead turning it into its Asian ally), Japan never went through the guilt phase Germany did after learning of the Holocaust.

It is important to note, though, that Abe's recent statements regarding the sex slaves don't really have much to do with Asia, or the sex slaves themselves. He's responding to the US congressional act demanding Japan apologize for the sex slaves, since he wants to appear more independent of the US. Of course, he's doing it in an outright stupid manner (the Abe government is largely a bunch of buffoons) but his intentions are all the same.

Japan does need to formally apologize, though, and offer some kind of official compensation, or they're never going to really fix their relationship with the rest of Asia.

That's true, it has been pointed out that Japan is hush-hush about the war time, but someone had to have considered how much money an apology would cost them. I understand that Japan isnt exactly America (thank god), but legal cases (little old ladies suing Japan!) and compensations would come up the second an apology is made. Money for the legal cases, money investigating the women to make sure they really were comfort women, and then the compensation itself...

I can only imagine how it would hurt the Japanese government, both in Pride and in the wallet. @_@ I totally wish they'd do it though.

It's not a financial issue though - they can almost certainly afford to pay the limited compensation. Remember, a lot of these people are old now and many have probably passed away.

It is a matter of pride; same with Yasukuni. It just has to change. Japan is risking too much for too little.

Not to mention that many of the women are unwilling to come forward because of the shame it'll bring themselves/family.

Perhaps a bit more than that.

It's alright, if Japan holds out for another decade or two the problem will go away by itself!

So, did anyone actually read those Historians' studies putting light on the government's active involvement ? 'Cause yeah, Abe isn't saying there wasn't sex slaves like the thread title hints at, but that the government wasn't involved.

Not infirming either thesis here since I haven't read anything on the subject, but sincerely wondering if any of you guys have.

Given that Abe was born a decade after the war, and the very real possibility that he was fed a doctored version of history, this was not surprising.

niki, how possible is it to systematically gather 200,000 'comfort women' for an army without the involvement of the Japanese government? Especially in a society as hierarchical as Japan's?

Considering that the army in question is the Imperial Japanese Army, it's more possible than one might think at first. Remember that the IJA was effectively a law unto itself, and its junior officers were in particular quite happy to use violence to get the government to do what they wanted. They attempted several coups and assassinated several government ministers in the 1930s, for example.

So yeah, it was quite possible for the Japanese army to gather 200,000 "comfort women" itself, without the involvement of the Japanese government.

Was the army an extension of the government?

The senior members of the Japanese Government would rather wait the problem out -- it isn't as though the women lodging these complaints are getting any younger. Afterwards, the entire ordeal gets whitewashed and swept under the rug. Saves its pride and a lot of money.

My problem is what if China decides to write an ignored wrong by tapping Japan upside the head with a nuclear warhead. It's a far-out scenario, but it's one to consider.

No, it really isn't. China wouldn't be stupid enough to risk their new-found global power by doing something that stupid. At most you'd get a political sanctions and increased tension. God, you're useless.

Which explains China's military buildup:

China's defense budget to rise 17.8% in 2007
Chinese military superpower?

They're fully aware that at this moment, we have the power to fcuk them up royally if need be. Building up their military defenses up to a point where the U.S. would pause and weigh the consequences would be in their best interests, especially if they decide to expand their global power.

Umm, actually they are largely building up their millitary power in order to deal with a potential North Korean threat. China is a global economic super power, and they aren't going to do anything stupid, such as bombing Japan, because that would make them lose their newfound global footholds. If you did any actual research, or maybe you weren't a bloody retard, you'd be able to differentiate between causation and action.

If you are interested in the issue of comfort women, at least you need to read the following report documented by a U.S. Army information officier. It describes, in detail, who comfort women really were and what their daily lives were like.
_____________________________________________

Report No. 49: Japanese POW Interrogation on Prostitution.

UNITED STATES
OFFICE OF WAR INFORMATION
Psychological Warfare Team
Attached to
U.S. Army Forces
India-Burma Theater
APO 689
Japanese Prisoner
of War Interrogation
Report No. 49. Place interrogated: Ledo Stockade
Date Interrogated: Aug. 20 - Sept. 10, 1944
Date of Report: October 1, 1944
By: T/3 Alex Yorichi
Prisoners: 20 Korean Comfort Girls
Date of Capture: August 10, 1944
Date of Arrival: August 15, 1994
at Stockade

PREFACE

This report is based on the information obtained from the interrogation of twenty Korean "comfort girls" and two Japanese civilians captured around the tenth of August, 1944 in the mopping up operations after the fall of Myitkyin a in Burma.

The report shows how the Japanese recruited these Korean "comfort girls", the conditions under which they lived and worked, their relations with and reaction to the Japanese soldier, and their understanding of the military situation.

A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a prostitute or "professional camp follower" attached to the Japanese Army for the benefit of the soldiers. The word "comfort girl" is peculiar to the Japanese. Other reports show the "comfort girls" have been found wherever it was necessary for the Japanese Army to fight. This report however deals only with the Korean "comfort girls" recruited by the Japanese and attached to their Army in Burma. The Japanese are reported to have shipped some 703 of these girls to Burma in 1942.

RECRUITING;

Early in May of 1942 Japanese agents arrived in Korea for the purpose of enlisting Korean girls for "comfort service" in newly conquered Japanese territories in Southeast Asia. The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. The inducement used by these agents was plenty of money, an opportunity to pay off the family debts, easy work, and the prospect of a new life in a new land, Singapore. On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen.

The majority of the girls were ignorant and uneducated, although a few had been connected with "oldest profession on earth" before. The contract they signed bound them to Army regulations and to war for the "house master " for a period of from six months to a year depending on the family debt for which they were advanced ...

Approximately 800 of these girls were recruited in this manner and they landed with their Japanese "house master " at Rangoon around August 20th, 1942. They came in groups of from eight to twenty-two. From here they were distributed to various parts of Burma, usually to fair sized towns near Japanese Army camps.
Eventually four of these units reached the Myitkyina. They were, Kyoei, Kinsui, Bakushinro, and Momoya. The Kyoei house was called the "Maruyama Club", but was changed when the girls reached Myitkyina as Col.Maruyama, commander of the garrison at Myitkyina, objected to the similarity to his name.

PERSONALITY;

The interrogations show the average Korean "comfort girl" to be about twenty-five years old, uneducated, childish, and selfish. She is not pretty either by Japanese of Caucasian standards. She is inclined to be egotistical and likes to talk about herself. Her attitude in front of strangers is quiet and demure, but she "knows the wiles of a woman." She claims to dislike her "profession" and would rather not talk either about it or her family. Because of the kind treatment she received as a prisoner from American soldiers at Myitkyina and Ledo, she feels that they are more emotional than Japanese soldiers. She is afraid of Chinese and Indian troops.

LIVING AND WORKING CONDITIONS;

In Myitkyina the girls were usually quartered in a large two story house (usually a school building) with a separate room for each girl. There each girl lived, slept, and transacted business. In Myitkina their food was prepared by and purchased from the "house master" as they received no regular ration from the Japanese Army. They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received "comfort bags" from home.

While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping.

PRIOR SYSTEM;

The conditions under which they transacted business were regulated by the Army, and in congested areas regulations were strictly enforced. The Army found it necessary in congested areas to install a system of prices, priorities, and schedules for the various units operating in a particular areas. According to interrogations the average system was as follows:

1. Soldiers 10 AM to 5 PM 1.50 yen 20 to 30 minutes
2. NCOs 5 PM to 9 PM 3.00 yen 30 to 40 minutes
3. Officers 9 PM to 12 PM 5.00 yen

30 to 40 minutes

These were average prices in Central Burma. Officers were allowed to stay overnight for twenty yen. In Myitkyina Col. Maruyama slashed the prices to almost one-half of the average price.

Additional Spam:
SCHEDULES;

The soldiers often complained about congestion in the houses. In many situations they were not served and had to leave as the army was very strict about overstaying. In order to overcome this problem the Army set aside certain days for certain units. Usually two men from the unit for the day were stationed at the house to identify soldiers. A roving MP was also on hand to keep order. Following is the schedule used by the "Kyoei" house for the various units of the 18th Division while at Naymyo.

Sunday 18th Div. Hdqs. Staff
Monday Cavalry
Tuesday Engineers
Wednesday Day off and weekly physical exam.

Thursday
Medics
Friday Mountain artillery

Saturday
Transport

Officers were allowed to come seven nights a week. The girls complained that even with the schedule congestion was so great that they could not care for all guests, thus causing ill feeling among many of the soldiers.

Soldiers would come to the house, pay the price and get tickets of cardboard about two inches square with the prior on the left side and the name of the house on the other side. Each soldier's identity or rank was then established after which he "took his turn in line". The girls were allowed the prerogative of refusing a customer. This was often done if the person were too drunk.

PAY AND LIVING CONDITIONS;

The "house master" received fifty to sixty per cent of the girls' gross earnings depending on how much of a debt each girl had incurred when she signed her contract. This meant that in an average month a girl would gross about fifteen hundred yen. She turned over seven hundred and fifty to the "master". Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles.

In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea.

The interrogations further show that the health of these girls was good. They were well supplied with all types of contraceptives, and often soldiers would bring their own which had been supplied by the army. They were well trained in looking after both themselves and customers in the matter of hygiene. A regular Japanese Army doctor visited the houses once a week and any girl found diseased was given treatment, secluded, and eventually sent to a hospital. This same procedure was carried on within the ranks of the Army itself, but it is interesting to note that a soldier did not lose pay during the period he was confined.

REACTIONS TO JAPANESE SOLDIERS;

In their relations with the Japanese officers and men only two names of any consequence came out of interrogations. They were those of Col. Maruyama, commander of the garrison at Myitkyina and Maj. Gen.Mizukami, who brought in reinforcements. The two were exact opposites. The former was hard, selfish and repulsive with no consideration for his men; the latter a good, kind man and a fine soldier, with the utmost consideration for those who worked under him. The Colonel was a constant habitue' of the houses while the General was never known to have visited them. With the fall of Myitkyina, Col. Maruyama supposedly deserted while Gen. Mizukami committed suicide because he could not evacuate the men.

SOLDIERS REACTIONS;

The average Japanese soldier is embarrassed about being seen in a "comfort house" according to one of the girls who said, "when the place is packed he is apt to be ashamed if he has to wait in line for his turn". However there were numerous instances of proposals of marriage and in certain cases marriages actually took place.

All the girls agreed that the worst officers and men who came to see them were those who were drunk and leaving for the front the following day. But all likewise agreed that even though very drunk the Japanese soldier never discussed military matters or secrets with them. Though the girls might start the conversation about some military matter the officer or enlisted man would not talk, but would in fact "scold us for discussing such un-lady like subjects. Even Col. Maruyama when drunk would never discuss such matters."

The soldiers would often express how much they enjoyed receiving magazines, letters and newspapers from home. They also mentioned the receipt of "comfort bags" filled with canned goods, magazines, soap, handkerchiefs, toothbrush, miniature doll, lipstick, and wooden clothes. The lipstick and cloths were feminine and the girls couldn't understand why the people at home were sending such articles. They speculated that the sender could only have had themselves or the "native girls".

MILITARY SITUATION;

"In the initial attack on Myitleyna and the airstrip about two hundred Japanese died in battle, leaving about two hundred to defend the town. Ammunition was very low.

"Col. Maruyama dispersed his men. During the following days the enemy were shooting haphazardly everywhere. It was a waste since they didn't seem to aim at any particular thing. The Japanese soldiers on the other hand had orders to fire one shot at a time and only when they were sure of a hit."

Before the enemy attacked on the west airstrip, soldiers stationed around Myitkyina were dispatched elsewhere, to storm the Allied attack in the North and West. About four hundred men were left behind, largely from the 114th Regiment. Evidently Col. Maruyama did not expect the town to be attacked. Later Maj. Gen. Mizukami of the 56th Division brought in reinforcements of more than two regiments but these were unable to hold the town.

It was the consensus among the girls that Allied bombings were intense and frightening and because of them they spent most of their last days in foxholes. One or two even carried on work there. The comfort houses were bombed and several of the girls were wounded and killed.

RETREAT AND CAPTURE;

The story of the retreat and final capture of the "comfort girls" is somewhat vague and confused in their own minds. From various reports it appears that the following occurred: on the night of July 31st a party of sixty three people including the "comfort girls" of three houses (Bakushinro was merged with Kinsui), families, and helpers, started across the Irrawaddy River in small boats. They eventually landed somewhere near Waingmaw, They stayed there until August 4th, but never entered Waingmaw. From there they followed in the path of a group of soldiers until August 7th when there was a skirmish with the enemy and the party split up. The girls were ordered to follow the soldiers after three-hour interval. They did this only to find themselves on the bank of a river with no sign of the soldiers or any mea ns of crossing. They remained in a nearby house until August 10th when they were captured by Kaahin soldiers led by an English officer. They were taken to Myitleyina and then to the Ledo stockade where the interrogation which form the basis of this report took place.

REQUESTS

None of the girls appeared to have heard the loudspeaker used at Myitkyina but very did overhear the soldiers mention a "radio broadcast."

They asked that leaflets telling of the capture of the "comfort girls" should not be used for it would endanger the lives of other girls if the Army knew of their capture. They did think it would be a good idea to utilize the fact of their capture in any droppings planned for Korea.

The Japanese government had no control over the army before WWII, it was a seperate ministry under direct control of the emperor, which basically means that it could function anyway it wanted, since even though Hirohito had absolute power on paper, he really couldn`t do anything to control them. When the war was growing more serious, the army also took over the government by appointing Tojo Hideki as the new prime minister, when Konoe was reluctant to continue a serious war.

You have got to be kidding, Koizumi was only the beginning of a new downfall, and Abe is kinda like a worst-case scenario (aside from Ishihara Shintaro). He is provoking people BECAUSE he can`t deliver the promises of his campagne, and he needs something to distract them from the real issues. You could see him as an example of the New Patriottism that`s gaining ground in Japan with recent reforms (Art. 9, education, jieitai), but even more than Koizumi he`s leaning towards Asian Monroeism (with Shintaro, stating that Japan should become a leader in Asia and that war was just in some way), since he was putting more effort in relations with Asia, contraire to Koizumi who was a lapdog of the US.

Japan, like any other country has a dirty past that they don't want to bring up. Belgium never talks about the Congo, the US doesn't really shed much light on the natives and everyone still hates the French ;) (joking) The Austrlian government pulled the same thing and gave some kind of half assed apology to their natives.

There are many layers to a country and its culture. Just because you like their anime doesn't mean you have to like their political history. Japan isn't the only country to abuse women.

I'm sure 100 years down the line, Americans aren't going to be too crazy about discussing how many people they killed to get those WMDs in Iraq.

I read a really good article about the Industrialization of Sex, and it talks about several countries in Asia and how it developed to service military men during the WWs and how it's still there today.

I think it's definitely wrong for these leaders to not fess up, but were they directly in charge at the time? Most likely not. Women still don't really have much of a voice in a lot of countries, I think it'll take time before there is some sense of equality and they get the recognition and respect that they deserve.

Here in the U.K we're always being taught about how evil our imperial past is.

That's because you guys lead the pack in terms of being evil :p