The Punk Thread! (We're Gonna Gob On Yer Granny)
 

I was a little surprised to find the total lack of punk discussion on these boards, and I hope I'm not the only punk on these boards, so lets get something going.

For the record the following are NOT punk and are NOT to be discussed in this thread:-

Christian Punk (i.e. MXPX)
Nazi Punk (i.e. Skrewdriver 1982 - onward)
Pop Punk (i.e. Greenday)
Skate Punk (i.e. Suicidal Tendancies)

and NO punk sub-cultures i.e. indies, emos, goths, grunge etc...

A good test to find out if you're a real punk is to listen to this song and see if you can relate on any level. (Warning, lyrics are NSFW)

Anyway, feel to free to talk about bands you like/dislike, gigs you've gone to/going to, the most punk thing you've ever done, what you wear to gigs, any legends you know, ask 'is it punk or is it not?' etc...

And also, if anyone's in the North of the UK during the end of May make sure you attend Nice & Sleazy, it's gonna be fuckin awesome.

Sadly, I don't think there are enough people who listen to punk rock to have any sort of serious discussion on these boards. There was a thread like this before the last crash, and it didn't go very far.

Ramones/Misfits.

What about Hardcore?

Nothing says anti-establishment like a good dose of self-satisfaction.

I've always had a spot in my heart for The Clash but even they changed their sound a hell of a lot during the 80's. Even then, I consider London Calling one of the great albums of the last century.

Bad Brains, Wire and Mission of Burma are always brought up when discussing great punk bands but my favorite punk band of all time is The Stiff Little Fingers. Those guys were gritty right down to their sound and it always stuck with me. It's one of those bands I found out about LONG before High Fidelity came out (knkwzrd will know what I'm talking about) and got me into punk in every form.

Punk! My favorite genre of music next to metal.

my top 10 favorites:

1. Minutemen
2. Swell maps
3. The Fall
4. Angry Samoans
5. Flipper
6. Bad Brains
7 Meat Puppets
8 Crime
9. Sun City girls
10. Crass

Punk. Of my, I haven't listened to this stuff in ages.

Never really did, to be honest. There was a huge punk fad that went on around the town I live in and my goodness it was ridiculous.

After that I pretty much swore off punk as just that - a ridiculous fad.

I hope you don't mean to attach that "punk" label to all the emo kids running around like headless chickens.

Most Punks I know are pro-establishment, just not this current establishment. The way I see it, anyone who has stepped into Hot Topic without the intent of causing some drunken mayhem isn't punk. Whatever happened to D.I.Y?

Could you elaborate? What genre of punk was the fad about? Or to put it another way, what clothes were they wearing?

While I really like SLF I was pretty pissed when they no-showed at a gig I went to about a month ago.

Anyway, for anyone who has heard of them are Towers of London punk or not? While Donny did spit his beer in my face there were a hell of a lot of 16 year old indie and emo kids at the gig, although most of them got shoved to the back once they actually came out onto the stage.

I think I'm even more surprised of the lack of rock music discussion on the boards. Namely, not modern rock.

Punk for me has been given a bad rep, mainly from idiots like Green Day, Fall Out Boy, Panic! At the Disco, MCR, and other black eyeliner, skinny pants, Converses, greased hair, Hot Topic, 30 something year olds. The only punk I know of well are the Ramones. If anyone wants to suggest bands of the same era, I am open to it (or "good" modern punk or rock, that is the challenge.)

For classic punk bands listen to Sex Pistols, Clash, Buzzcocks, New York Dolls, pre-nazi Skrewdriver, The Toy Dolls, The MC5 and The Stooges.

As for modern punk bands try Dropkick Murpheys & Cheap Sex. Most of the modern Punk band I know are local so you're probably not going to be able to find their records with ease.

I also depends on which type of punk you're into. I like Oi and Glam Punk but each to their own.

HAHAHAHAHA! You're not one of those cats who actually THINKS that Panic! At The Disco is punk, are you?

Fo sho! I uploaded some Stiff Little Fingers for you guys to enjoy.

Thought I'd upload what I'm listening to at the moment.

For the record, the BNP is the largest extreme-right party in the U.K.

Now for sleep.

So, is it true that most good punk = people from Europe?

No. Their is plenty of punk that came from the states that is far superior to alot of the stuff that came from europe-based punk bands

The only punk I really listened to was Too Drunk to Fuck by Dead Kennedys and I enjoyed it. I tried listening to some Ramones, but they really weren't doing it for me.

Anyone recommend the bands that influenced thrash metal? I guess fast aggressive punk with some technicality to it and socio political conscious lyrics.

Oh, more enthusiasm than I expected. My favorite punk act of all time is The Fall. They've been releasing great records for 30 years without stop, and never sold out. Mark E. Smith is punk rock, as far as I'm concerned.

I have somewhat of a mixed opinion of newer punk music. Most of the stuff that's musically similar isn't anything like the original in terms of philosophy, which I think for punk music especially was more important than the music's aesthetic. Most of the acts that are really the "most punk" in my mind don't sound anything like punk rock of old, but probably have far more in common with the original musicians. I'm thinking of acts like Wolf Eyes or Diamanda Galas or some of John Zorn's more out there stuff here; not only are they creating original music that doesn't sound like anything else out there (something I think was integral to punk rock that is now lost in the oi or glampunk molds), but they're way the fuck more D.I.Y. than pretty much everyone else out there.

The only punk bands I could really ever get into are the Clash and Social D. I am really into early punk-influenced hardcore, though - Minor Threat, Black Flag, Youth of Today, 7 Seconds, Gorilla Biscuits, etc.

I really don't distinguish the early American hardcore bands from the punk scene at all until bands like Social D. (who I honestly have no liking for) and that whole SoCal thing came around. There is some old footage of Social D. touring, and when you see their lead singer trying to write a song after a show with all his caked on eye make up in someone's back yard, you can't help but think, "What a bastard. This is the beginning of all this MCR shit, right here." He left the same tour – taking the money and stranding his band and another band across the country – because he didn't like the living conditions.

Mike Ness is definitely a sketchy dude, but I'm not sure that any one guy is responsible for inspiring current emo trends. Great bands like the Damned and the Misfits (another favorite punk band of mine, can't believe I forgot them!) did the make-up thing, too, and to a much greater extent.

Don't forget the New York Dolls, they wore more make-up than a 15-year old slag on a night out, but they were are punk as fuck. If anyone is to be blamed for emos it's the person who created the touchy-feely trend when anyone knows the way to sort out your problems is through alcohol and rage.

While this may be true of all the mainstream 'punk' bands, but at at local level there are still a lot of bands that wouldn't have been out of place in the 1970s.

While this is undoubtably true of proto and post-punk, the majority of the early punk bands used the same 3 chord progressions that had been laid down by blues and the same sing-along quality that pub rock had to it. Blame the MC5 for Kicking out the Jams.

While I love bands like Television to a rather worrying extent, you can't get drunk and pogo to Marquee Moon no matter how hard you try. As horribly cliched as this sounds and I hate myself for saying it, for me punk is about the experience as much as the music. There's nothing I love better (well, very little) than getting wasted and jumping about in front of the stage with my mates while the older punks look on approvingly. Then again, I am a working class lad from a 'Tatty Seaside Town' (bonus points if you get the reference) so I can relate more to lyrics about football, drinking and violence than I can to lyrics about art (sorry for the sterotype).

I do agree that punk is also about content as well as style, with bands like The Libertines and Pulp as punk in my eyes, even if they don't play hard fast and angry.

Maybe there is a lot of punk from the states that is far superior to alot of the stuff that came from europe-based punk bands, but British punk is the best in the world.

Anyone, on a completly unrelated note, the next punk gig I'm going to is on the 24th Feb at a pub called the Yorkshire House. The plan is get to the pub by 2, have a couple of drinks, listen to the bands that start at 3 while still drinking, dance a little, try to chat up some girls and fail due to the fact you're slurring too much for them to understand you and you look pretty crap by this point, talk to the bands after they've done, drink some more, repeat until 2 in the morning. It's gonna be a fuckin GREAT day.

As for gig clothing, I'm gonna gel my hair back until it's like a rock, put on my home scrawled T-shirt and black bomber jacket (possibly with something spelled on the back with safety pins if I can be bothered to go into town), torn jeans held together with safety pins and a pair of leather sneakers (cos I haven't managed to get get hold of a pair of Doc Ms yet). Last time I was in this get up I managed to out punk my mate and he's promised to out punk me this weekend so I'm looking forward to seeing what he'll be wearing. For Nice & Sleazy he'll be dying his hair red while I'm going 1/4 pink, 1/4 blond (natural) and half red. I'm see if I can get any pictures from this weekend.

Anyway what were the last/next gigs you guys went to and what did you wear and do?

That was expected, your english and from my encounters, the english think they pioneered every popular genre in Rock music . IMO, Their is only a handful of decent punk bands to come out of Britain.

The Fall, Wire, Swell Maps, Crass, Clash, and the jam.

Then again, i can't tolerate any form of Oi punk and 80% of the punk bands in England are Oi based.

I can see where you're coming from since Oi is my favorite type of punk so for me Britain is easily the punk capital of the world. What's your fav type of punk?

My favorite subgenres of punk are generally 80's Hardcore/American Underground and post-punk.

I saw Cheap Sex in Corona, CA 3.5 years ago with Lower Class Brats. I'd only heard one of their songs before the show, but a friend needed someone to go with her so I went. They weren't bad, but I never got around to listening to more of their music.
Have you seen American Hardcore? It was a pretty cool documentary about the Hardcore Punk scene from 1980-86. They talked to a bunch of the musicians from those bands. It wasn't widely released, but it did play in some small theaters.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure this guy lives near me. My uncle has talked to him at both bars and AA meetings.

The DVD of this just came out. Really, the film is worth purchasing just for the archival footage. The interviews aren't really anything groundbreaking if you've kept up with the scene.

Apparently being punk is very serious business. It's like a job, almost.

Yeah I've already been voted out.

One thing I would like to say is that I think in the United States we don't really have "punk," it's a brit thing.

We have hardcore, such as: Bad brains, Bad Religion, Reagan Youth, Black Flag, Fugazi, The Misfits, Naked Raygun, Anti-Flag (circa '88), et al.

The distinction is mainly semantic, but there's a distinct divergence in sound between the Sex Pistols/early Clash and those listed above. The only real exception I could think of would be The Heartbreakers, who developed their sound while touring in the UK with the Sex Pistols.

Fuck this elitism shit. This isn't what punk is about.

All i know is that Frenzal Rhomb released the best punk album of last year (Rise Against fan sit down) and that I'm really fucking excited about the imminent NoFX show in Perth. And next month, the DROPKICK MURPHYS. Gunna be insane.

You're obviously not looking deep enough if you think punk music is exclusive to Britain.

being punk goes by the simple D.I.Y ethos. The fact that you cite the sex pistols as an actual punk band, shows you don't know much of what your talking about. I recommend you look up vivian westwood and Malcom Mclearen. The sex pistols were the Fallout boy of the 70's and nearly every interview i've read with people who were part of the punk rock scene attest to this.

let's not forget that such punk bands like the Stooges, Television, Swell maps, and the ramones to name a few started as a band playing punk music 2 to 3 years before the Sex pistols or the clash even formed.

The reason people consider Britain to be the home of punk music is because of the mainstream press hyping up these two bands as an innovator of this genre of music. The only reason they are considered by many uninformed people as the founders of punk is because they " brought" it to the mainstream.

hell, even bands like Black flag, the Minutemen/reactionarys, Angry Samoans, Crime, etc started playing punk music at the exact same time that the clash and the pistols did. Thinking that punk originated in Britain is completely asinine.

British punk may be the most well known in the world due to mainstream exposure, but it is by no means the original or birthplace of punk rock. Sorta how people think Black sabbath are the first metal band in the world when if you take the time to digg, it is very evident that they were not.

I don't know why everyone likes the Ramones so much. They were all right, but in comparison to other bands in the same vein, I don't think they're really that noteworthy.

If they're not punk, then what are they? Oh, wait, I forgot, you're probably thinking because they gained popularity with God Save The Queen, they're not punk.

I'm surprised you didn't bother to take the New York Dolls route, they started in the early, early 70s. Before most of the other bands you mentioned.

So, maybe it was a bit of misnomer, but most people I know, who are also fans of the genre, refer to british groups as "punk" and americans as "hardcore." Even if you visit the major epicenters of the American scene, they labeled themselves as such: LA, D.C., New York, Chicago...

I wouldn't go so far as to compare them to Fall Out Boy, but they were definitely more of a caricature than they were an actual anti-establishment entity. The reason why I couldn't ever get into the Pistols was because of their whole musical demeanor. What were they talking about half of the time? They didn't know eachother when they got together and the fact that they fell apart because they never had any true stage chemistry was a testament to that.

It always just seemed to me that they were put together for the sole purpose of selling a false punk image that was built upon the paving of bands like MC5, The New York Dolls, The Stooges and Velvet Underground, to name a few.

Where they were from doesn't matter to me as long as it was good music; but, to me, the Pistols definitely didn't fit this bill. :/

Xtian punk bands: Slick Shoes(first 2 albums), MxPx (old stuff), Craig's Brother (1st Disc) Dogwood, The Undecided, Ace Troubleshooter.

I also like some new school bands: No Use For A Name, NOFX, Bad Religion.


Even though I've listened to a lot of punk, I have to say that my music tastes have broadened significantly since then. Funny how that goes, huh?

The Pistols aren't punk based on the sole fact that they were a 1970's boy band essentially and instead of selling their abs and looks, they were sold with their " fuck society" and " outsider" look. It was basically 4 guys who hung out at a store that were thrown into a band to help sell the stores goods.

I love the New York doll's first album, but after that i think they took a horrible nosedive partly due to McLaren. He took the dolls from being Glam rock gods to being a ants about to be squished under Bolan's shoe for ripping him off. I didn't mention the dolls because they've always been far more of a glam rock band then a punk band.


I think most people get confused with the hardcore label. Hardcore back in the 80's was basically the same as the word " kvlt" that is used by people in the metal scene. It was a title moreso given to the genre by the fan's then the actual artists in an attempt to be more underground because punk was becoming mainstream.

Bands like the Meat puppets, Minutemen, Husker Du, Saccharine Trust, Replacements, etc were all classified as hardcore bands, but alot of their input didn't fit the hardcore classification, yet still was considered hardcore because they were apart of the american underground scene and sounded punk and that was all that mattered to be classified as hardcore.

Although, i guess your right in the sense that the hardcore punk label is used by americans to help defferentiate themselves from their british counterparts. When it comes down to it IMO, Hardcore was more an era of punk rock then an actual style.

That is exactly what happened. they were put together by westwood and Mclaren to help sell their stores good. The only good thing to ever come out of that scene was Siouxsie Sioux.

I totally agree, the Pistols were as manufactured as the monkees, but they did get punk to a wider audience than they would have otherwise and influence countless better bands. Taken from Cock Sparrer's wikipedia article.

I agree, punk isn't about christianity, racism, selling out or skateboarding.

I never really got into Sioxsie, though the Banshees were O.K. You seemed to forget that the Clash also came out of it though.

And The Who started playing before them, but Link Wray started playing before them. The problem with identifying when punk started is that you just end up going further back and back. Punk had a variety of influences, from protopunk, blues and pub rock. I suppose if you wanted to be pedantic you could say ? & the Mysterians were the first band to be described as punk but does it really fucking matter where and when it started?

Let's try not to turn this into a pissing contest.

HAY GUYZ IM LISTENING TO MCR - I'm Not k (I Promise) and enjoying it! Shit shit am i doing this rite?

If London Calling came out today, it would be called a low fi I Am The Movie without keyboards.

Seek help, don't turn to the dark side.

Get out.

Haha, no, no, before they were emo the big fad was punk.

Then they went on to emo and all that bullshit. It's embarassing.

What sort of punk? Could you describe their clothes/habits please

Edit: Just found this on wikipedia.

Just when the patriotism in me starts to wane, I read something like this and my faith in my brothers in restored.

Double Edit: It gets better, have a look at this and this.

I've always found the who to be standard blues rock. I think they're very far from the punk spectrum. Link wray really can be connected to punk rock, but only in a small way as power chords only make up a small part of the entire punk spectrum. He was influental to a select few, but nowhere enough to be considered a founder. We could like you said keep going back further and further in history to find the supposed origins, but i don't either of us want to do this.

I just think it needs to be noted that the Sex pistols and the clash were not the founders of punk in any way shape or form like so many people belive.

That's pretty much the single greatest moment in the history of music.

As illegitimate as the Sex Pitstols were as a group, I do think that there was a legitimate talent in John Lydon that makes listening to them understandable. You can't deny the genius of a lot of his PiL stuff, and his work with Afrikaa Bambataa was great.

I was just talking to my mate the other day about how intelligent Lydon was, iw would have been interesting to see what he would have done if he had formed his own band instead of being shoe-horned into the pistols.

My Generation and Rumble?

My generation does have some punk elements, but so does stuff released by Love and a bunch of other rock acts in the 60's.

IMO the first true punk rock album to ever be released was in 1970 with the stooges " Fun House ". Loose, Dirt, Down on the street, and T.V Eye were all punk as fuck.

I would like to hear what everyone considers the first punk album?

I don't think there was a "first" punk album, I thought we had established that the music had sort of a parallel evolution.

I would almost say, that in a lot of ways Johnny Cash (although, his influence was later felt in the Grunge era), The Grateful Dead, and other folk artists as well as the movement of the Beat-generation (Allen Ginsberg, et al.) lead up to the anti-authoritarian, do-it-yourself movement that is Punk.

There's always be rebellious anti-authoritan hell-raisers, however if I absolutly had to pick an album that I felt was the first totally legitimate punk album I would probably pick 'Kick Out The Jams' since in the words of Lester Bangs 'they came on like a bunch of sixteen-year-old punks on a meth power trip'.

I'd say that the first record that really sounded something like punk sounded in it's heyday, ignoring mentalities of the artists and anything like that, is The Monks' Black Monk Time. At the beginning of flower power, it stands as a frothing testament to youthful rage. "Oh, I hate you with a passion, baby."

If you truly want to get technical about it, the Damned and their debut album (a self titled) was officially the first concious punk rock album. The Damned is one of the few bands that I can still stand to listen to. They're just stripped down rock'n'roll.

Back when I used to really listen to the stuff, I used to be into the Templars, Major Accident, Crass, UK Subs, and the Cockney Rejects...Stuff along those lines. This thread inspired me actually to relisten to a few of my old favorites. My taste though eventually matured. Now I can only listen to the standouts, and I enjoy post-punk which I feel took the sound and made it alot less prone to generic sound-alikes.

True. that is why i asked what does everyone consider the first punk album. It is a question that is based on one's opinion, and not on the actual history of punk.

Interesting choice with the Grateful Dead. Myself being a dead head, i've never really thought of it, but it makes sense in a few ways. Did you ever happen to read about the Dead, Kesey, Cassady and the pranksters?

Now the Damned is an act that really doesn't get the recognition they deserve. I can't really get into anything they did after the Strawberries record, but those first five albums... some good shit.

Agreed. But If I were to pinpoint one "first punk album", The New York Dolls' self-titled album would be at the top of that list followed closely by The Damned's own Damned, Damned, Damned.

Machine Gun Etiquette, baby!

I've tried this thread a few times, never seems to take off. :(

Now if the "Acid Tests" weren't punk as fuck, I don't know what is. :tpg:

Well, in two hours I'm off to a 9 hour punk gig in a pub, and it cost under a fiver. I'll try to get some of the less embarrassing pics up soon as they've been taken and I've recovered from the drinking.

Interesting to see a few of the names tossed around here. I would have never considered Eyeless in Gaza or The Meat Puppets to be "punk", but ymmv.

I listened to quite a bit of punk back in high school and college, but have sort of grown out of it as I've gotten older. I couldn't tell you who any of the good new punk bands are. I will admit that some of the best shows I've been too have been punk shows, however. Bad Religion, NOFX, 7 Seconds, and Voodoo Glow Skulls all put on amazing shows back in the day.

Ah, to be 19 again... ;)

You've obviously never heard the meat puppets S/T then as it was a pure punk album. Sure, they are mostly known for II which sheds alot of their punk elements. Although when you look at their entire discography as a whole, alot of their work is in the punk vein. It just never get's listened to be alot of people and brushed under the wayside because it isn't II nor is it namedropped by people in the underground.

Yeah, first I heard of Meat Puppets was the "Too High To Die" album. While that was a fantastic record, the last thing I would call it is punk. I tried some of their previous records, but could never really get into them. Maybe I need to give in another listen.

I was just given a free "business class account" or some such thing on yousendit.com, and with that comes a rather large amount of upload space, so here's that documentary American Hardcore in case anyone's interested.

http://download.yousendit.com/DB5A28446AC06CEB

Thanks for that Knkzrd, I'm doing a module on documentries at the moment and even though I'm not that big a fan of hardcore, anything that lets me combine buisness and pleasure is good in my book.

P.S Any1 in North of U.K make sure you go to rebellion fest in my own little tatty seaside towm.

I could be wrong, but I haven't seen a single mention of GG Allin, on of the best examples of what punk (was) back in the 80's and a little into the early 90's.

Anyways, and I'm sure that (most) people will agree, I get so pissed when I'm walking around town and some 13 year old with a mohawk and an iPod goes "dude, A7X is like, totally hardcore!" or some bullshit nonsense like that. Don't get me wrong, punk IMHO, isn't a type (brand if you will nowadays) of music or some trend or fashion, it's about not giving a shit about what anyone thinks about you and living how you want without fear of retrobution.

I see alot of hypocrisy with so-called "punks", they always say that they're non-conformists, but yet if you don't look, act, or talk a certain way, you're not one of them. It just goes to show you that any group of people, when they get enough recognition in "mainstream society" turn into elitist fucktards.