Any anti-FMA fans here?
 

O.K. Does anybody else agree with me that Full Metal Alchemist is the most over-rated anime ever to hit the shores of North America? I mean I watched the whole thing, and even the movie; but not once did i say: Damn this anime is good. In fact there were times when i said WTF? This is what people like? I'll admit I liked the story and the concept of the anime, but the presentation was horrible. Most of the anime felt like fillers and could have been cut-out as it had nothing to do with anything. The homonculus being named after Sins is also poorly done I mean just because you name something Lust doesn't mean its a representation of Lust. Nobody lusted after her and she didn't lust after anybody. Somebody else has got to agree with me that this anime is really not as good as everybody says it is. is it just due to the adult swim publicity it's receiving or am i in the minority here?

It was pretty popular before it even got onto Adult Swim. However, I'm sure it did get a bigger boost because of Adult Swim.

I'm not sure how well the whole sins things works later in the show as I only watched up to episode 25 or so but it might be worked out better in the manga. I hear that early on in the show it departs from the manga's story and perhaps without a well-flushed out storyline and some details might have included the sins it falls a bit flat in that regard. However, I wouldn't call FMA the most over-rated anime to hit the US. I'd be more inclined to give that title to a show like Eva.

I never had no hate for the FMA anime. I didn't think anyone would even sweat over it in NJ or my college friends for that matter. When I saw it (subbed and waaay back) I enjoyed the storyline, the music (michuri ooshima who's responsible for Legend of Legaia) The characters were well though out. Sooo.. nope. Not an Anti. However, Whenever i flip the channels to AS, I noticed that FMA is still airing. I ask why but in the end, Not many people/kids have access to internet or know what sub are so its whatever.

I never checked out the manga. Alot of people go nuts over it but I can't get into it.

I read the manga long before it became big, back in the day when Toriyama World scanlated it (who also started Naruto if I recall). I thought the manga was pretty good, then started watching the anime and thought that was decent. Most anime that becomes overrated are due because of American release (usually), like Evangelion and Naruto. If anything I think Naruto deserves that title now.

I picked a random anime to watch when I still visited places other than A-S or Baka Updates, and chose Full Metal Alchemist before ever knowing what it was. I really liked the story and the quality, but I also agree with how overrated it became once it officially became licensed and hit NA shores. Then everybody got into it, and it was the coolest thing since sliced bread. The 7 sins thing made me squeal at first, but now that you bring up that point, I see where you're coming from. If each sin had died accordingly, then that would certainly be justifiable, so it seemed more to be for the coolness factor.

I'm not Anti-FMA, but I don't see what the big deal is. I enjoyed it somewhat when I watched it subbed years ago, but I would never watch it again. I hear the manga's better, though.

I really don't see why you would feel the need to be anti-FMA, just because something is over-rated doesn't mean it has to be bad (even though it sometimes is). It's not the most amazing show ever, but compared to many other shounen actions it has an intelligent storyline and idea, and plenty of good, dramatic moments. Many great characters as well and at least the journey isn't a completely generic version of "I want to be stronger."

And you may feel that it was wasted potential and they failed to present or realise some of the underlying ideas in a satisfactory way, but again I think that's a pretty poor argument for saying that it isn't good. Many shows of this type don't even have any ideas to begin with. I don't quite agree with your filler comment either, I thought it was most often on track and much of it was relevant in one way or another. Besides, who says filler has to be bad? Some of the stand-alone episodes in Ghost in the Shell are my favourites.

I did... :p

When I watched the fan-subs as they aired in Japan, I knew FMA would be huge when it got licensed. It's got a good blend of action and comedy, a storyline that more or less makes sense and is easy to follow (unlike Eva), characters that I became emotionally attached to, and it doesn't go on forever and is fast-paced (unlike Naruto). Love it or hate it, it's worth the hype.

Uh. I'm pretty sure both lusted after Lust's original human self, and it was this lust that caused him to try to revive her.

Wrath is angry that his mother tried to, almost literally, throw him in the trash. Gluttony eats stuff. Sloth is gifted with the ability to transform into a viscous liquid, and is generally a slow-moving, slow-speaking character. Envy, which can be defined as the desire to be someone else, has the ability to, well, be someone else. Greed I don't remember because I last watched the series about two years ago, but I think the explanation had to do with his underworld cronies. Pride is the king of the frickin' country.

So, that's 1 out of the 7 humunculi that is not well-named. You may want to come up with a better reason not to like the show.

I honestly didn't feel it was much of a hit here where I live so I never found it overrated.
And its definitely not the most overrated anime to hit the states.

The BGM on FMA is quite nifty. But the anime blows. I sat through it a few times to watch some other show (can't remember what it was), but GOD I hated it. I read the manga since when it first got scanslated and knew it was fantastic. But then the anime came, which spins off and does its own thing. But it disgraces the name of the manga in my opinion.

The manga is intelligent and moves at a fast pace despite being a monthly sorta thing. The anime dotes on the whole philosopher stone and equivalent exchange ploy, but that was overcome in the manga rather swiftly. God is Wrath (in the anime) annoying as fuck... It is such a horrid anime and like many others that hit the shores of NA, it is overrated. Big time.

That's probably the most important quote in the thread. Dragon Ball Z, Final Fantasy VII, Naruto, etc, each popular for being over rated for a t least a short period of time. Doesn't mean they are bad at all. There are two reasons why people can often dislike an overrated show/game:
1. After hearing so much praise about it, the person expects to have very high hopes for it, but when the person tried it out, it didn't live up to their expectations. In some cases, it can end here, but the hatred for the show/game could come from strong dissapointment, or disliking how often people give it such a good word when the person themself did not see it that way at all to the point where it gets annoying.
2. Another, more childish way is rebelling against it just for the sake that many people like it, and possibly they want their opinion to stand above others.

Your case seems to be #1. Just keep this in mind: There is not a single thing in existance that everyone will like. There will always be a decent percentage of people against it, and even hating it no matter how truly good it is. Always keep that in mind.

FMA was the third or fourth full anime series I watched and it was the first one I got into. I really liked the storyline and how after the first ep there was some back story then they got on with it. I was disappointed with the end it started to wind up and I was thinking 'man that's pretty weak, you're really stretching it'. I've only read the first volume of the manga and it was more or less the same as the anime but I'll eventually get more.

Sure I think it does have weaknesses in the story but I like the concept of alchemy and liked the characters so I thought it was good.

Quoted for truth.


You basically hate Fullmetal Alchemist because OTHER people praised it so much, and it didn't live up to YOUR expectations. I liked Fullmetal Alchemist. Sure it isn't the best anime ever (I could probably name at least 20 that are better in my eyes), but I watched the whole things and I got into it. The ending wasn't what I wanted, but I was satisfied by watching it - even if there were problems with it.

Then again, I watched it before it became hyped up (like Dragonball Z, Inu Yasha, Naruto, etc.). And it doesn't seem as if you hate the anime 'cause it's bad - you even watched the whole thing. Most people would stop watching after a certain number of episodes if it was bad (you even watched the movie). You probably enjoyed it (didn't love it, but you liked it), however you can't see the fact because you're clouded on expectation.

Also, I don't think too many people say "Damn this anime is good." They may think something along those lines, but I don't think too many people would go about it like that.



Anyways, towards the Lust comment:

Well, I really have never had an interest in FMA, and it didn't help that my roommate was 'into it' -- and she notoriously liked contrived, long-winded series like Saiyuki and Kyo Kara Maoh. I watched a few episodes, but it completely failed to catch my interest. I really don't care for the art style in either the anime or the manga, so there wasn't even an aesthetic reason for me to watch; Edward's character design is one of my least favorite out of any anime/manga, with the over-detailed body and extremely simple face, it just lacks a lot of congruence for my tastes.

These days I have little free time to watch much of anything, never mind anime series that are long-winded. Now I've been assured that there are no filler episodes to FMA (at 51 episodes, it's still a bit long-winded for my tastes), but I just couldn't get into it enough to make it worth my time.

Exactly. I just don't see anything remotely remarkable about the show, and the dub job they slapped on it for the US release doesn't help. I've watched a lot of other anime that had remarkable stories and characters that were also released here, but since a lot of people laud FMA, less 'experienced' fans go on and on about it (ditto for Naruto, possibly the worst case of this barring DBZ). I know this seems a bit of an otaku stance, but I really don't have that kind of mindset. Cowboy Bebop is lauded ad naseum, but I think that is a series that deserves it more than FMA.

If i remember correctly; Scar's brother was gonna marry her. I GUESS you could call that lust but i really wouldn't since there's supposed to be genuine love when you marry someone. And i honestly didn't feel that scar lusted after Lust both pre or after homonculus. I thought he was surprised when he first saw her but no real sexual wants. Sloth is laziness, not lack of movement; and i remember the secretary being not very lazy. And Envy? He thought everybody else was ugly except for his one girl-boy form. He didn't envy anybody except for a figure he made up. How is that envy? And so what Pride is the king of a country. How does that make him prideful? He had like no screen time so neither of us could back up our statements with much. Greed I don't remember him being greedy at all; and obviously you can't either. Gluttony is the only one that fits his name. He eats and eats, i guess you win that one.

FMA was waaaay overrated similar to Naruto and Bleach. I think those types of animes appeal more to the younger crowd and not to the 16-25's or so here. The older crowds tend to be more passive in their opinions (at least i am being 20). I mean an anime like Death Note is clearly better on every level then FMA but it hardly gets any press. Plus, since anime is "uncool" i never go talking about it in public unlike with younger viewers.

Note: EVA was not overrated. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's not good. In fact, I would put EVA in my top 5 for sure. I think you have to enjoy figuring out the meaning behind the show to get the most from it.

Where's your evidence to suggest that Acer and the others calling it overrated didn't understand Eva? What if they understood it but hated it? I mean, it's got both good and bad points, but not everyone is going to like even the good parts. Personally I understood it just fine, and I don't class it as a favourite anymore.

OK so one person in this thread said they didn't understand it... the others just said it was overrated.

Personally I'm neutral on FMA. I watched it on TV for a while, but I won't be buying it. It's just not a favourite of mine.

PRO SKUB.

<_< >_>

Alright, Jokes aside, I can see why people would dismiss this, but I watched it, and found it to be an enjoyable series, with some likeable characters and a story-line that for the most part kept you wondering what was going to happen next. The ending WAS rushed and its bad that they had to make a movie to wrap up the major unanswered questions.

However, its not overrated to the point the OP suggests. I even found myself becoming emotionally involved at a few moments, so there is the ability to draw the viewers in. After all, if a show is hated because of its popularity, then obviously the show must be enjoyed by a lot.

Well, to each his own I guess. I'm not saying it was the greatest show or anything (And some characters I felt were underused or introduced in a rushed manner), but its a nice way to escape from our world (At least, until near the end xD) and explore one where things work a bit differently.

Like Soulzar said, I'm fairly neutral on it: Yeah I liked it and had a good time watching it, but now that I have, its on to other stuff.

Essentially, how it played out at the end:

Me: Hmm, that was a pretty good show! ::nodsheadapprovingly::
Me: ...Ok, what to watch next? ::looksontorrentpage::

Honestly, I thought it was pretty good, except the last episodes which, IMO, were retarded.

I saw the fan subbed eps, and I do think there are better animes out there than this.

Does the movie count? Because it followed that common anime tradition of falsed wtf crappy endings, I can't remeber the last time a climax to an anime had made me badly want to see the next part only to be like:

QFT.
Death Note is quite possibly the most mature and well-thought-out story put out by Shounen Jump, which notoriously pushes its stories to go on and on until their plots devolve into utter crap. Even DN was pushed for length a little, but at least it ended within a logical amount of chapters.

Evangelion is definitely overrated. But I think many people get the false impression that it is a bad anime from the English dub, which happens to rank among the worst crimes ever commited against humanity. It's definitely a great anime.

I'll admit that a large part of why i posted this was because of the disppointment I had espiecally after all the hype it received. But I really thought it was bad; I've watched a bunch of animes that took a really long time to get good, but once it did they were pretty amazing. FMA was not one of them IMO. I just couldn't find a point in the story I liked besides it being original. I don't know about where you live; but where i live it's gotten to the point where it's not uncommon to see a guy in a cheat red coat with a alchemist thing on his back, or a fat FMA badge across thier chest or something know waht i'm saying? Basically i just don't understand, why. And no i'm not one of those anti-trend people who are all like awww naruto sucks cuz um.... other people like it. I actually liked naruto up until the fillers. Know what i'm saying?

I watched the FMA anime several months after the last episode was released and after everyone else had finished it. I was already aware of what others thought about the story and characters, so I decided to give it a try.

I managed to finish the entire series in about a week or so, and I thought it was an enjoyable anime. The main characters were interesting and the story held my attention until the end, so it was a solid anime for me overall.

I remember being pretty unimpressed by FMA, but that was only because of all the hype. "Anti-" is definitely overkill though. It was still pretty good...the Nina episodes were especially emotional for me, and it's one of the very few series in which I was actually happy with the way it ended.

BTW...doesn't this thread technically count as trolling/flamebait?

I liked FMA. So fucking sue me. Of course, I watched it episode by episode as it was fansubbed. The english version makes me cringe.

Th ending left me kind of confused, because the manga went a different route with the story.

Then again, I had the same complaint with Hellsing. It's like, it had me believing it was going to follow the manga, then BAM! episode 8 hits and I'm like WTF? Who the fuck is incognito? The new series is promising, though. Hellsing isn't Hellsing without pip and the fourth reich.

The anime was quite good, but it's NOTHING compared to the manga.

The way I see it: the anime of Full-Metal Alchemist is like the best fanfiction ever.

So yeah. The only "hate" I feel is when people who watched the anime first can't get into/don't like the manga

I watched Fullmetal Alchemist, and I enjoyed it. Not only the characters, but also the music and story itself. I've always enjoyed stories about alchemy and the Philosopher's Stone, and I wanted to see this take on it. I didn't see the fan-sub when it was all the rage. In fact, I didn't see it until I saw it on Adult Swim--so maybe that helped me by not clouding my opinion before watching it.

As for the names of the Homunculi....They fit.

Pride--Dante was proud that she was able to make a homunculus that could age--hence the name.
Lust--Using this definition of lust: "An overwhelming desire or craving" (as in "lust for power")--it fits, since it seemed she desired to be human more than the others.
Envy--"A feeling of discontent and resentment aroused by and in conjunction with desire for the possessions or qualities of another." He was jealous of Ed and Al since Hohenheim stayed with them, and not his first son. (and he didn't use his "normal" shape because he looked too much like Hohenheim, and Envy hated that)
Gluttony--okay, we know his name fits...LOL
Wrath--"vindictive anger"--I'd be pissed at the world too if my mom transmuted me--and in fact, abandoned me. And, of course, the love she should have had for her child went to Ed and Al, so there's just a little resentment....
Greed--He even says he's a greedy bastard. He didn't want what the others did--he just wanted stuff.
Sloth--"apathy and inactivity in the practice of virtue"--yeah, she was virtuous, wasn't she? (This is the definition for the deadly sin, by the way.)

In theatre (and I've noticed in anime) some characters are named to give the audience a clue to their identities or habits. This doesn't always apply, but it's still a habit used today.

Pride also felt that he was better than humans. I forgot the context; it's been a long time since I watched the anime.

All of the generic "Manga>Anime" people can suck my hairy balls. Comparison of fiction from different media has to be the most retarded criticism method humanity came up with.

I really disagree with everyone saying this anime is overrated. IMO, it deserves all the credit it gets. It`s a great, compelling and deep anime that had me from the first episode to the last (and movie). I haven`t watched the US version of it, though, so I can't really tell if some things got lost or whatever (hate dubs). Moreover, I haven't read the manga, so there's really nothing to be disappointed about for me personally.

Back when I was watching the subs I actually loved FMA. At the time it was a generally perfect anime with action, comedy suspense and a good story. And now after it came on adult swim, I'm down right sick of it. It's hard to talk about anime with anybody now with out them bringing up FMA. It was great the first time I watched it but now people are ruining it for me.

I have yet to read the manga but I'll probably get around to it so I can see the real full story.

Ah, yes...I forgot about Pride's beliefs.

And how many anime have actually strayed from the manga? You know, there's only a certain amount of time in each episode/season, so there's only so much the anime producers can do.

Look at Inuyasha--the anime stopped before the manga did.

Look at Rurouni Kenshin--there was a whole story arc that had nothing to do with the manga.

And, when you read a novelization of a movie--the book doesn't always match to the movie, or movies based on books don't always match the books (DaVinci Code, anyone?)

And, ZeroSlash has a point--There are other anime on Adult Swim (Lupin's back!), but to constantly talk about one is like a particular song being played incessantly on the radio.

There's truth behind Manga>Anime. It's just better the majority of the time. It's similar to Novel>Movie. The Count of Monte Cristo? Les Miserables (the musical... shudder)? But since movies have a MUCH higher budget than anime, sometimes the Movie>Novel. This is debateable, but The Lord of the Rings, Pride and Prejudice, Emma, just to name a few.

The Anime>Manga situation is rarely the case, much to manga readers' chagrins. Even I can't name one case.

Dee--you are talking about movies based on novels, right? If you are, then I agree with you. In novels, you have so much more to work with; there's no time table to follow. Fitting a 500 page book into a 90 minute movie is hard. Fitting a monthly manga into anime episodes is also hard. That's why some animes have "filler" episodes.

These episodes "flesh out" the characters and (sometimes) the story, and they can do it, since it's "based on" the manga. That doesn't mean it has to be followed exactly.

You're completely ignoring the different necessities for different media. Manga and anime serve vastly different functions in entertainment and experience that comparing them is like trying to compare milk and ice cream*. Either they suck or they don't by their own merits as what they're supposed to be, anime or manga, not by comparison. Same for novels and movies.

The manga ain't that impressive, either. who is father???? find out as we eventually reach 200 chapters!!!! heres some generic lackey homunculi to tide you over

Not that the movie was all that great, mind.

*Ice cream is an embarrassment to milk. :mad:

I loved FMA back when I watched the subs each week, and I still love it. Even the movie was better than I expected, and I like most of the English voices for the dub.

Is it over-hyped? Hell yes. Back when I was still getting Newtype-USA it got to the point where FMA was on the cover every damn month rather than giving the space to any other anime coming out. I just don't let it get to me. Aside from the irritating fangirls (who are around for a lot of shows, 'sup Fruits Basket) it isn't that bad.

As for the whole manga>anime debate, I can see where people are coming from. I purposely avoided reading the FMA manga until after the series was finished, and the show is very good without knowing the direction the manga takes. The manga is a lot more fleshed out (Maria Ross, the people from Xing, and most recently the whole Northern military outpost of Briggs) and has some interesting plot twists, but I think it's a little unfair to say that the anime sucks just because it took a different direction.

I'll have to make a note to bring up FMA every time I see you around campus. Perhaps even hire one of the common fangirls to follow you around, giggling about how uber hawt Ed is.

I read the first 10 volumes of the manga (I got them on a CD that I read on my computer) and I barely made it through. I didn't get into the story or anything at all. This was before the anime hit the States and I have absolutely no desire to see it. I don't hate it, it's just not something that I got into.

Hahaha, then I shall only counter with the hottness of Kazuki Mutou from Busou Renkin. :cool:

One of the best animes ever made, so nope I'm not anti-FMA. ;)

P.S. Sorry if I don't like fruitiness but FMA was a good shounen anime and didn't have 10 episode long fights so it was perfecto. I hope the manga gets animated properly someday since the show did stray from it (but still kept up the high quality).

I think the Fullmetal Alchemist anime suffered incredibly by being made when they were only a tenth of the way through the manga. The result of this was that nothing really made sense and plot elements had to be rushed through with little thought to them. I challenge anyone to read the manga and like it less than the anime. There's just so much in it. Where the anime only dealt with the Ishvar/Ishbal war, the manga has a far grander story encompassing all the neighbouring countries of Amestris.

Granted, there were a few things about the FMA anime that I liked over the manga, for example the first few episodes of the anime were far more exciting and involving than the first few chapters of the manga. The point at which things really changed for the worse was Episode 26. At that point, it descended into shounen territory with the odd multi-episode fight and oddly placed filler episodes.

I enjoyed the anime, but I never read the manga. I imagine my opinion might change after I read a few volumes, but the anime was still a cool piece of work. It managed to get me emotionally involved a few times, which anime almost always fails to do.

As for dubbing, was I the only one who liked the voice acting? Ed's fit just fine and I thought he worked the dramafied scenes pretty well. Everybody else pulled their weight, too. It's been said a lot in this thread already, but the anime is neither the best or the worst. It's well-rounded and definitely up there, and while it's somewhat overrated, I think it deserves some of the praise it gets.

Evangelion fucking sucks, though.

What filler? The only two episodes I can think of that didn't go anywhere were Majhal and Psiren.

Fix'd. Just because YOU couldn't understand it doesn't mean that its bad. Evangelion is one of the deepest most thought provoking animes ever made.

No, you douches. We understand it and it still sucks.

Going off topic in responce but with all due respect the series has it's good points, but as for the climax movie the director pretty much throws everything besides the religious references he built up on the floor, stomps and craps on it then shows his middle finger to the audience. That's not even mentioning the budget problems with the original series so the guy was being hassled to do it in the first place by fans and was seeing a shrink at the time.

i don't see anything wrong with it. when i decided to download and watch it i thought it was hilarious and interesting. and THEN the dubbed version hit YTV and i watched one episode. the only thing i hated about it then was the dubbing. i can't stand bad english dubs - no offense to those who like dubs.

Well, I've checked out the anime and the manga. To tell the truth, I don't usually enjoy reading and/or watching popular anime/manga series, since they have commercial story plot, plain conflict, and easy-to-guess ending. In the end, I found out that THIS popular anime doesn't really follow this pattern. It was an enjoyable anime.

However, I agree the fact that FMA is indeed overrated. Although it is good, but it is not really special. The background of the story is nice, but not 'very'. You know what I mean, right?

Another fact: after I watched the whole series, I didn't really wish to watch it again. It is too...commercial, I think. Uncommon anime/manga series are more attractive to me.

Jesus, you can't bring up Evangelion. You just can't. It's like bringing up art, religion, or politics. Look, it's my favorite show. I've gotten used to it getting hate (as all popular things seem to attract a vocal minority of), but I still get mad when I see people diss it. Because.. I love it, as mentioned before. But I'm going to bite my tongue about it because I'm sick of arguing it and it's not like I'm going to change anyone's mind about it.

On topic, (and by topic I mean "overrated anime", as this thread has become), I love anime in general. I'm going to guess a lot of people here don't. I love a deep, convoluted anime like Eva, I love a goofy romance CLAMP anime like Chobits, and I love a Shonen Jump (get badass, fight a badass, get badass, fight a badass) anime like Bleach or Naruto. It's silly to say one type is worse than another or to claim love of one to the exclusion over the other.

YES you can like Death Note AND Dragonball Z. Just like how I love American Beauty and Starship Troopers.

As for FMA, I watched it all, it kept my interest. I thought the insta-alchemy thing was fun and I enjoyed everyone's various versions of it. The story was okay but not great or terrible. Overall, as many have been saying, there's no need to get "anti" about it just because it's popular.

The reason people hate on Evangelion is because it's depressing bullshit that people find to be deep because the director went emo crazy one day and said "Let's fuck everything up! Uahahahaha!!! -gag, cough, wheeze-."

I think the FMA anime is good, but not THAT good, so YES: it is over-rated. It is acceptable until the end, it f***in blows everything away.


It's just like Evangelion, everything goes more or less fine and then the end makes you want to throw it all to the garbage, piss and spit on it, and set on fire.


... Anyway, I still want to read the manga because I have found most of the times it is far better than the anime.

Never got into it, it just doesn't appeal me for some reason, probably because of its art style...

I don't think FMA's creator went crazy, though....

But, I haven't seen all of Evangelion, and it's an anime that you CAN'T miss an episode of--or it really doesn't make sense. FMA, on the other hand, does some nice exposition so you can tell what's happened within the story arc.

And, you know, it was one of the first animes to use a kid for the English dub of Al.

No, let's continue on Evangelion, which is perhaps the single most overrated piece of shit to ever come out of Japan.

The anime started off with cliche promise: it had a somewhat interesting premise but was marred by, yet again, preteens piloting giant robots against an evil force. What was kind of cool was the religious connections, with the Angels, lore, etc. The idea that there was something greater at work and that characters weren't what they appeared was also executed reasonably well.

UNFORTUNATELY, the show just couldn't decide what it wanted to be. Was it a generic mecha anime? No. A harem anime? Not quite. A comedy? Unintentionally. Neon Genesis Evangelion was a mish-mash of shitty direction and even crappier pacing/storytelling with nice character designs. When it felt as though it was going into typical giant robotsville, it strayed off course and multi-track drifted into what the fuck. We get a crapload of episodes dedicated to 'squiggly-lines' and boring monologues questioning existence, we get Shinji hardly evolving from the puss to responsible puss, and to top it off, the ending is perhaps one of the most contrived and anti-climatic pieces of shit ever.

Nice music, though.

Then there's the director or producer or writer or whatever. He was batshit insane and supposedly tried to commit suicide. Apparently his thought process carried over in the production of NGE, as I couldn't tell what the fuck was going on after the fifth or sixth episode. It was all over the place!

The movie (the cool one with Asuka expressing levels of GAR rivaling Archer's) was kinda cool, but went right back into what-the-fuck shortly after that fight. There is little to no redeeming quality in completing the series. There's nothing thought-provoking about it unless you make up shit theories (see fan-fiction) of what a scene might have been about. It is a waste of paper, paint, and VHS/DVDs. It is fail.

And yet, because of it's ambiguous nature and the fact that it was a reasonably 'mature' anime at it's time, it's hailed as one of the greatest by anime noobs and anime veterans alike. Give me a break.

I didn't really want to have to defend the show and people will probably get mad at me for taking the bait, but like I said in my previous post, it's hard for me to sit idly by against shit like this. Lots of spoiler talk below if you haven't seen the show.

The anime started off with cliche promise: it had a somewhat interesting premise but was marred by, yet again, preteens piloting giant robots against an evil force.

And fantasy stories almost always have dragons and sci-fi is almost always in space and love stories are always about love. I fail to see the problem here, especially since the "cliche" was executed upon so nicely. IE, ONLY 14-year-olds could pilot the Eva's because they were born on the day of Second Impact and because the Eva's would only sync up to them due to their mothers' being inside. This revelation later is an interesting central focal point of the series (amongst others) and a worthy reason of using the "cliche". Besides the fact that the show is about preteen's and how they affect and are affected by the world as they being to enter adulthood, so it NEEDED to be 14-year-olds.

UNFORTUNATELY, the show just couldn't decide what it wanted to be.

I don't see how it had to DECIDE to be ANYthing specific. Usually, if a show can cover multiple genres deftly it is considered remarkable. Though, I mock your ridicule of the three things you joke it was trying to be. Watchmen and The Dark Knight Returns came along in the 80's and redefined what super hero comics can be. Do we complain that it was "more caped heroes" or "more Batman"? No, and equally here with Evangelion, I personally believe mech anime and harem anime was redefined into something smarter. They took classic anime premises and twisted them. As if to say "What we went deeper into these ideas and really explored them?"

Neon Genesis Evangelion was a mish-mash of shitty direction and even crappier pacing/storytelling with nice character designs.

I'm not really sure how to argue this without asking for specifics on "shitty direction" or "crappier pacing/storytelling". If you can give some examples, that would be appreciated. I think the show had fantastic flow. It always had a right hook to throw you for a loop, but it was never contrived and was always relevant. Action scenes were paced frantically and were filled with intensity. We were constantly learning new motives/past stories/reasonings behind character actions. New angels were usually views into the characters' psyches. The dialogue was clever and telling.

When it felt as though it was going into typical giant robotsville, it strayed off course and multi-track drifted into what the fuck.

I find no basing for this comment. If you didn't pick up on the meaning from the "what the fuck" times, I can't help that. It's all there. It's not just there to be weird. I really recommend a second viewing as this is one of those shows where you pick up on a LOT more on repeated viewings, as you have in your head what's coming later on.

We get a crapload of episodes dedicated to 'squiggly-lines' and boring monologues questioning existence

First of all, three episodes doesn't quite make up a "crapload". The final two and the one where Shinji gets sucked into the Sea of Dirac are the only ones I could imagine being "dedicated" to the internal though-processes, which is hardly just 'squiggly-lines'.

More to the point though, it's generally considered interesting to see how a character thinks in a story. I thought it was brilliant to see their flows of consciousness on screen. I find it slightly hypocritical of you to complain one minute about cliches and mech anime, then the next minute claim boredom when dealing with character development.

we get Shinji hardly evolving from the puss to responsible puss, and to top it off, the ending is perhaps one of the most contrived and anti-climatic pieces of shit ever.

I would argue that the last two episodes wrap the series up quite nicely and we have complete psychological healing of Shinji through the merging of the Human Instrumentality Project. I'm one of the people that wish End of Eva had never been made, as I DO agree that it is a bit of a "fuck you" to complaining Japanese fans. The entities of everyone merge together and everyone gets to look into everyone else's mind in ep. 25 and then friends help Shinji through his mental issues in ep. 26. I personally find the show itself to have a wonderfully happy ending. I'm disappointed in the movie and have to agree with the majority of people that THAT ending is a letdown, but at the same time I take away my own personal understanding of what happened there. Seems to me he was issued a clean bill of mental health and was chosen to remake the world as he saw fit, but I he couldn't let go of his female trauma and proceeded to eke out an aborted Asuka/Misato/Rei creation that he loathed. *shrug* I'm not fond of the movie, but at least we get to see what exactly goes down on the physical plane during the time of mental healing.

Nice music, though.

I concur. Just thought it'd be nice to break the tension with some happy agreeableness. :D Though I wonder if this ruins the pacing of my post for you...

There is little to no redeeming quality in completing the series. There's nothing thought-provoking about it unless you make up shit theories (see fan-fiction) of what a scene might have been about. It is a waste of paper, paint, and VHS/DVDs. It is fail.

I can direct you to a few sites to explain specific scenes for you, but I imagine you wouldn't want to be bothered. I'll admit openly I didn't understand considerable amounts of it my first run through the series and I felt a lot like you did for a while. But upon further viewings, I came to slowly adore it as a whole as I comprehended what was going on. The theories aren't half-assed. The vast majority of it fits together neatly. It's really QUITE thought-provoking, in fact, especially if you are into character studies, which I guess you are not. More of the bang-bang, shooty-shooty stuff preferred, no?

*looks at previous post* So much for that... do we need an anti evangelion thread now before this derails any more? :eagletear:

I can't agree more:D

Well, it's like I said, it's hard for me to stand by when someone rips on something I love with awful reasoning. I apologize, I got out of hand.