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Games you consider "Perfect"?
You see games get perfect scores all the time from major publications, but how many of those do you truly consider to be "perfect"? Are there any games that you can honestly say are flawless in your eyes, games that you feel don't need any extra additions or improvements whatsoever, for any alteration would only add some uneccesary coating to a spotless foundation?
My list of "perfect" games is very very small; even my most cherished classics aren't without minor critiques or desires for improvements in future remakes or ports. There's really only two games I can think of that I still find to be flawless to this day, and here's one of them. http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...astersword.gif Bow your heads with respect, OOT fans; I decree this one not only the greatest Zelda game of all time, but quite possibly the greatest videogame of all time. Years later and I still have no real criticisms to add to Link's greatest adventure. It had the best exploration ever ("holy crap what's with that flute playing ghost!?"), it had the best Zelda artwork ever (scenes like this and this make me continue to wish for an anime series; I read this was once considered but ultimately dropped in favor of more Pokemon. Ah, Nintendo, always giving us what you *think* we want), and the opening dungeon theme (Hyrule Castle) is, without a doubt in my mind, the greatest dungeon theme ever; so much epic packed into one opening song. And way before people were bitching for a more mature Zelda story often forget that Link to the Past had the darkest story of all; characters are killed onscreen, and depending on which continuity you believe (namely the manga), the Dark World is in fact the world where all living things travel to once they die. So in other words, Spoiler:
I find LttP so perfect I've yet to purchase the GBA version, for the simple fact that I find the inclusion of Young Link's vocal yelps both unnecessary and inaccurate (the artwork clearly shows Link in his teens). I'll stick to the original, even if I have to emulate it (good thing I've got a PC to LCD thing going now. Triple Buffering and DVI cable=no need for a virtual console). So if you have some games you consider flawless, tell us about them. |
I'm actually playing though LttP again on the GBA, and while the yelps are annoying as fuck, the portability makes it all worth it.
I need to get some other people that have it for Four Swords though, since there's a dungeon in LttP GBA that can only be accessed by playing Four Swords. It's my 5th time playing through the game, and I still feel it's the best Zelda ever. Most people look at me crazy when I say that, but this game took the initial Zelda concept and refined it to perfection. All Zelda games after LttP, even the 3D ones, have the same basic design principles that were introduced in this game. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE OoT, but I just feel LttP is a better game in many ways. |
For me, Tetris Attack for SNES was a perfect score. I played that game to death. Even to this day, it is still one of my favorite games of all time.
Metal Gear Solid - Hands Down the best game every made. I also have a biased view on it though because I played the NES original many years before and was so pumped when the Solid game came out for PS. Gran Turismo - Took realism in racing to an all new level. This game was the first game I bought for PS and I still have it. Chrono Trigger - It is the best storyline ever for its time, and many years after that. I still give it a perfect score. I also own the original case and everything still. Harvest Moon (SNES) - The originally of this game was great and I was extremely addicted to it. Perfect score for this one, mainly for it originality and its wonderful execution. |
God of War. This is the only game that I have found to be completely perfect. There is nothing that I could think of while playing the game that I said to myself "I wish they would have done this." The atmosphere, the gameplay, the voice acting, the story...there is nothing bad about this game. I am so anticipating God of War 2...
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I feel the same way as you do about original versions. And that original version is:
http://www.coolrom.com/screenshots/s...ntasy%20II.gif Final Fantasy IV - USA version; SNES. Why is it perfect? Let's start off with the storyline... Spoiler:
If you click the above spoiler, you will see the amount of sheer emotion that happens in every last scene of Final Fantasy IV. I will not go through what types of emotion there are, because I did not type that spoiler for 2 hours for no reason. The music is something that was done so well that it helps the storyline give it the emotion that I see in the game. It is also the best plot I have ever read in a video game. It is filled with characterization and a non-stop quest to obtain the crystals before the enemies do. Finally, the gameplay happens to be my favorite. Sure, there are no relics, accessories, limit breaks, and other new ideas, but I respect and love the fact that each and every character is a specific class with their own abilities and spells. I also happen to like the boss battles in this game a lot. I like the spells a lot because I end up using all of them before the game is over. Games like FF6 or 7 have so many spells that I end up ignoring most of them. They did a really good job at not going over board with this FF game and giving the game the boundries of unique classes so that everybody can work as a team to beat the battles. So, it's perfect because it's extremely well-rounded in those areas. |
I didn't enjoy Zelda 3 as much as I would've hoped, but I must admit that it's difficult to find any shortcomings in the game. I enjoy OOT more not because it's superior in the game design department but because it's more cinematic and epic about everything. I'm curious as to what you consider to be your other perfect game since you said you had two.
A perfect game? I have a handful of candidates, but there's one that I think perhaps qualifies just a tad bit more than the others. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...metroid_03.gif Funny story, but I first played this game in my younger days after renting it somewhere. I recall not knowing what to do in the beginning area and getting a bit annoyed. I returned it thinking that it was nothing special. Fast forward to 2001 and I was borrowing some games from a friend. He lent me Super Punch Out, Megaman X, and yes, Super Metroid. I played through the other two first. Both quality games, especially Super Punch Out, which is still a total blast to play at any time. Then I decided to try Super Metroid again, and for whatever reason, it clicked that time. I figured out about finding hidden paths and such. I became immersed in the uniquely alien atmosphere of the game. Needless to say, I enjoyed it a great deal, and before my friend left to join to the army, he told me I could keep Super Metroid and he even left me the strategy guide. Over the years I've played through the game a number of times and my appreciation for it has only grown. It's a masterpiece of game design from beginning to end. The ultimate in 2D exploration. You really have to make use of all your abilities to find every cleverly concealed secret and each area is designed with those abilities in mind. There is virtually no wasted space in this game. Meanwhile your strength and versatility grows as you work your way to Mother Brain and an unexpectedly emotional twist in the story. When all is said and done, the game is as inspired as it is well designed. It even influenced future sidescrollers with its map mechanic and addictive approach to exploration. I couldn't ask for more and I wouldn't change a thing about it. |
Chrono Trigger. Fucking Chrono Trigger. Never has there been a game more perfect in my mind. So much exploration, and tons of hidden little awesomes that make this game the gift that keeps on giving. It has such an epic story line, and such an epic world (in 5 different iterations i might add) all perfectly laid out, and arranged for a story that comes next to none. I found a copy of it just recently, and am playing through it again. Even now, i have no complaints with this game. The only issue is that loading time between screens on this PS1 version are borderling unbearable, but i'm sure i'll adjust.
Resident Evil 4. This game is probably next in line for me. The environment, and atmosphere it creates just leave you wanting more and more every time you play it. The action leaves you on the end of your seat, and it's even scary to boot. I've never played any game as many times as i've played RE4, and i'm still not sick of it. Every time i watch the ending i get a little pissed off cause i wish there were more. All i can say is that RE5 had better be damn good. Chrono Cross. This game isn't quite perfect, but it's damn close. Basically for the same reasons as Chrono Trigger. The only big problem i have with the game is that i thought the world they gave you to play in was a little small. I would've loved it so much if you could play the game on the Zennin Mainland, and visit all theh places in Chrono Trigger as well. |
Helloween, can you do me a favor and briefly tell me the storyline of CT in the same format as I did in my long SPOILER above? Doesn't have to be as long, but please tell me the story in an enthusiastic way. Add your own comments if you want. Tell me what you find brilliant. Use quotes directly from the game like I did. Here's the script: http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/snes/...ger_script.txt
Obviously I can't just read all that. I don't understand the context of where they are just by reading that. That's why I'd like your input and opinion. |
I agree with Vivi that Tetris Attack was a hit. One of my favorite puzzle games and the music and graphics were superb in that game.
I consider Soul Calibur on the Dreamcast a perfect game also, and not just because Gamespot said so. Out of the three that have come out, this one has gripped me the longest. A lengthy mission mode, short loading times, amazing graphics. Also probably the best selection in characters. Even though SCIII had a good bunch, they didn't play like the original, plus they changed up half the moves lists for everyone. Also, SC had great music. The music was GREAT. |
I've turned pretty cynical about games in general so picking the perfect game will be tough, I'm sure I can think of more but the main one that springs to mind for me right now that hasn't been said already has to be sonic 3 and knuckles one of the 2D greats.
Sure the 2 player modes pretty shit in comparison but that seems to be a tradition with most sonic games, It's difficult to define what it is exactly about it, I don't think I've played any other game with a plot that actually has not a single line of dialogue between characters, if you ignore the backstory you'd read in the manuel or something but tbh who reads the manuels? :D Edit: Shadow of Colosus and Ico were unique experiences too I'd choose over generic FPS and RPG games any day |
I really don't consider ANY game perfect, since each has their own flaws and their downsides. The one's that has come closest?
http://www.geocities.com/PianoSaxoph...ntasy6Shot.JPG Apart from being the first RPG game that I played, it's story is VERY deep, the esper system is very intuitive and it makes the game a lot of fun to play. The Characters have their own motives and each character is fairly well developed (with the exception of the last few characters). With so many characters, I'm surprised that Square had the time and patience to develop each one. Also, Mog is friggin playable! He's a friggin playable character. And possibly the only moogle that is playable until Final Fantasy Tactics Advance came out. The soundtrack is also one of the best I've ever heard. I'd say it's probably Uematsu's best work. |
Galaga, Pokemon Puzzle (I preferred this version to the others...I like having a couple extra seconds when the stack hits the top. ;p), Zelda 3, Marvel vs Capcom 1, Guilty Gear XX#Reload, Castlevania 3, Lords of Thunder, Street Fighter Alpha 2 and Mario 3 would be the only ones I'd consider absolutely perfect. More complex games tend to have more issues just by common nature (including RPG's), despite whatever they do well...It's the simple, but addictive ones that are both awesome and extremely tough to criticize for doing the one thing they do right extremely well. All the ones I listed are aesthetically some of my favorites as well.
The fighters are iffy because of balancing issues and the fact that their single player modes are lame, but those are the 3 that stand out for depth and producing some of my favorite competitive match-ups/battles. They're there with the assumption of multiplayer (and secret characters turned off!) |
I have to concur with many of these choices.
LoZ: LttP I would agree has to be the best Zelda yet. OoT comes infinitely close to besting it, but music and gameplay have to lean to the SNES game. My friend is playing through it for the first time right now, and it's beauty is in the discoveries. I remember almost everything about the game, because each thing that I discovered when I played through was worthwhile and made a huge impact on me. It made exploration amazing again, much like the first game in the series. Resident Evil 4: I've never played through a game in one sitting until this one. What more can be said about it? It is the ultimate over-the-shoulder game, and I think Gears Of War took more than one idea from it. Third-person with accurate aiming... does it get any better? Not to mention the great voice acting, storyline, atmosphere, bosses, the challenge. This is a game I will continue to play often in the years to come. FFIV: Best RPG I've played because it was simple, had a great story, great characters, a kicking soundtrack, and uniqueness. I love how the individualness of the characters isn't screwed around with. It seems every FF game now you can customize the characters, and essentially every character can do everything. Not so in this game. And this is better because it makes the characters DEFINED and not abstract bodies. This and so many moments of greatness bring this to the top of my list everytime. Super Metroid: You can't have a list without it. I mean, you can play this game 20 million times and still enjoy it. I believe every game on this list succeeds because it has challenges that payoff. This game bleeds this characteristic. I mean combining beams! Space jump!! Screw attack!!! Hyper-beam!!!! This game kicks so much ass, has so much atmosphere, and the music. Perfect game. There are other mentions here that are great: FFVI, Chrono Trigger, Gran Turismo, Soul Caliber. The last 2 especially. You know a game is great when you beg someone to trade consoles with you for a couple weeks :D! The one I feel that needs to be added to the list however... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...idPrimebox.jpg Say what you will, but this game is perfect. Some may bitch about the controls, but that's only because they were expecting something different and don't want to learn new control. Other than that complaint, there are no other possible complaints. The controls are tight, the story excellent and engaging, the rewards well worth the challenges, the bosses amazing, the graphics stellar, the sound and music so freaking memorable. I still can't get over the ambiance of this game. Only with the other titles mentioned above have I been that engrossed in a universe. From the morph ball to the targeting system, to the visors, to the beams. Such a perfect game. Played through at least twice, and I honestly want to go through it again soon. |
I'm going to steer away from console games, since I expect many people to nominate the few games I would otherwise, not to mention that I doubt many people will nominate PC games.
There are two RTS I can think of which I'd consider to be near-perfect: Command&Conquer: Tiberian Dawn (that's the first one, I hated Tiberian Sun) and Starcraft (along with Brood War). Let's start with Starcraft: The game, in itself, is incredibly fun. I don't know of too many strategy games released back in 1997 that are still widely played, had 3 completely different factions, had multiplayer support on that level and had the kind of campaign with in-depth story Starcraft has. I still remember a bunch of memorable quotes from that game. The cinematics are also memorable, and considering when they were made, extremely high quality. I think I could quote Acturus' entire speech from when he crowns himself Emperor of the Terran Dominion. There's not much else to say, really, and it's not like it matters; anyone who likes RTS has already played Starcraft, everyone who doesn't like RTS, well, they won't care about this game anyhow. The second one, Command&Conquer: Tiberian Dawn, is equally good. It was released back in 1995 (or was it even earlier?), and I still replay both campaigns entirely from time to time. The gameplay is fun, the universe is fairly decent and there's a fuckton of cutscenes. There's at least one between each mission, and considering that this was made more than 10 years ago, and that Westwood didn't have that much budget back then, the stuff they've put together is fairly neat. From the background on the conflict, to info on tiberium, to mission objectives, everything you get story-wise comes through the cutscenes. The best part is that most of those cutscenes are first-person, meaning that when you're given a mission, people are talking to you, you're not watching a play. This brings me to one of the reasons I love this game as much as I do: Kane. For those of you who've never played the game, Kane is the leader of the Brotherhood of Nod, the so called "bad-guys". The thing is, the guy is so goddamn charismatic that if the Brotherhood of Nod were to exist, and even knowing that Nod uses terrorism, slaughters entire villages and burns down orphanages, and then use the media to blame it on the GDI (the good guys), murders anyone who gets in their way and that Kane doesn't hesitate to kill his subordinates himself, not to mention some even more inhumane stuff, I would still fucking join them. Call me some sort of fanboy, but that's just how things are. There's just something to the way the briefings with Kane are that makes it impossible to dislike him. As I've said before, it might have something to do with the cutscenes being first-person. When he's talking to you and saying, for example, "my faithful friend" in the last cutscene, or when he lets you choose between 4 monuments to blow up at the end (by the way, the game has 6 possible endings), it makes much more of an impact than watching some actors from third person. |
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night - It's easy as hell, but it's so much fun to play. None of the sequels even approach the quality of SotN even with their added gimmicks. They're all supposed to be innovative in their own way, but they all just feel like watered down variations of SotN. I think that proves that Symphony of the Night was a perfect game.
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I'd also jump on the Chrono Trigger bandwagon but everyone's already talked about it.
Why has nobody mentioned Day of the Tentacle. LucasArts made alot of legendary adventure titles for the PC but DotT will always be my favorite because I grew up with it (so perhaps I'm a bit biased, but so is everyone else in this thread). It's got one of the most amusing storlines in the history of games and the characters have more personality than the entire cast of every Final Fantasy game ever. Plenty of little in-jokes and amusing shit to click on, it's pretty much one of the 5 best games the Adventure genre has to offer. The soundtrack is excellent as well, I haven't played it in 5 years (no DOS) and I can still remember those delicious midi tunes. Another title which quickly comes to mind is Ratchet & Clank: Going Commando. I love the over-the-top sci-fi atmosphere mixed with ridiculous humor, beautifully mastered with the best soundtrack ever. Whereas most games suffer from taking themselves too seriously, this game doesn't even have the pretense of seriousness, which is quite refreshing when even fuckiing Starfox tries to be dramatic. The first title had its flaws but the sequel went above and beyond correcting them, making what I consider one of the few perfect games. I would recommend it to anyone, especially fans of the show Futurama (from which I think R&C drew a bit of influence). Lords of Thunder, like GoldfishX mentioned, is pretty much flawless. The only other shmups I would hold to its caliber are Contra III for the SNES, and perhaps R-Type Final. Quote:
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Super Metroid. The game definitely creates a wonderful atmosphere, probably the first game I ever played to give the feel of an atmosphere while playing it. The world seems massive, but it is easy enough to traverse the entire planet quickly. There's a ton of hidden stuff to find, and several different ways of going through the game. In fact, the glitches in the game add to the gameplay, rather than breaking it, creating even more paths through the game and different ways to find items.
Tetris Attack is close (even has good AI, of varying levels), and Tetris for the Game Boy is also close, but it could do with more gameplay options. I haven't tried Tetris for the DS, but if the control is like the Game Boy version, it has a shot. |
tetris DS is everything you ever wanted in a tetris game. EVERYTHING.
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Streetfighter 2.
The king of all games, still shines like no other |
See, for my money, no game is perfect. Even the ones I really want to say come so fucking close, like Final Fantasy VI, Shining Force II, Final Fantasy Tactics or Dragon Force. There's always something that makes them not quite there. Whether it's a translation issue, or maybe the music isn't quite there, there's always something. Hell, in FF VI I'd say the fact that we had to do away with the more adult references hurts it. In Shining Force, we see the same thing, Dragon Force didn't have enough troop variation... there's always something you can nitpick at. There are games that are on a pedestal, no doubt, but they still have flaws.
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Dragon Quest III. Regardless of which version of the game you played, you were in for the time and the challenge of your life. You could ride solo, you could duo, trio, or go for a full party. You could choose so many distinct classes, then hit up the Shrine of Dharma and create hybrid upon hybrid of each and every class to have ultimate customized classes. This was only the NES version too.
Once SNES and GBC versions came along, they took perfection to a whole new level. To this very day, Dragon Quest III GBC is without a doubt the single best portable cartridge you can own hands down. A real pity the DS didn't support those in the end though. ;_; |
I'd like to second Starcraft here. It's perfect. It's speedy as hell, and the units are excellent. You cannot produce as much as a Age of Empires game -- and that's a good thing. Makes managing it easier and getting to the war faster.
I'm glad to see someone seconded FF4, the best game ever. Mario 3 is also the best platformer made. It's better than Mario World to me because of the challenge in levels. Also, you cannot just goto a secret level like in World and obtain all the items you want. (In world you can goto that secret level and get yoshi and 2 capes whenever you want). There are restrictions in the number of clouds, p-wings, etc. Double Post: Quote:
I don't "perfect" this game because it doesn't have a masterful & cinematic story with tons of characterization, but its the best DW there is. |
Well, it's awkward, as I don't think any game has been truly perfect. With every favourite game I have, I've grown to accept that there are criticisms of it. That said, there are a few that come damn close.
Top of the list is probably Vagrant Story (although Final Fantasy XII is dangerously close to replacing it, it's too soon and I can't work out its long term worth). It comes at the very top of my perfect idea of an RPG. Is it a perfect game? No, and I don't believe it ever could be, but it represents the exact setting I want to see from a fantasy video game. When it comes down it, I don't care about rich, exotic, locales, fantasy for me should mean a dark gothic environment and complex, interesting characters. The gameplay has its detractors, I know, but the story just completely outweighs that niggling annoyance that it takes longer than it should to navigate the menus. No anti-hero in video gaming has ever come close to Sydney Losstarot, and there are very few villains more interesting than the misguided but dangerously powerful Romeo Guildenstern. The second is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Again, I know there are problems with it, there's too much of the Inverted Castle that's pointless unless you're a completionist. But the overall gaming experience makes this my ultimate 2D game (yes, it even edges out over Super Metroid) The third is LttP, and I don't think there's anything much more that can be said about it. Twice as epic as most Final Fantasy games, and three times as fun. Again, there are a few niggling (for a game music buff like me, it was disappointing that all the dungeons beyond the first three - had the same background theme - which was especially noticable during Ganon's Tower). That said, the fact that my only complaints with these games are so...petty, illustrates how good they actually are. The fourth is Half Life 2. I've played many FPS's before, but this was the first that actually felt completely immersive to the point where I truly felt that I was involved in the story. No other FPS (or indeed, any other game) has managed something as terrifying, yet insanely fun, as We Don't Go to Ravenholme. The final game (also already mentioned here) is Resident Evil 4. Yes, I know it's not scary at all, but when it comes to blowing the hell out of assorted nasties, invisible creepy crawlies, and insane commandoes with Trigun-style angel arms, there's no equal. Sole criticism: not enough Wesker! Personally, I don't think Resident Evil 5 can possibly match the innovative and aesthetically pleasing Resident Evil 4. Naturally, I hope to be proven wrong. Oddly, as an honourable mention, I'd like to speak out for the little respected FPRPG, Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines. More than the others, this is a long way from perfect, but it (as Deus Ex did before it) represents a step towards what I've ultimately been looking for from a video game; a perfect first person game with truly integrated RPG elements. I don't believe it's happened yet, and I want this to be the ultimate goal of any PC game developer. Well, there were supposed to be pics with this post, but I think this has gone on for quite long enough! :D |
Some people mentioned Tetris DS...I WANTED to put that, but I really hate the way the regular Tetris mode relies too much on moving the pieces once they've fallen. With all the modes and everything, it's one of the greatest puzzlers ever made, but that issue frustrates the living hell out of me everytime I play.
I do think though, the original GB Tetris deserves to be labeled as "Perfect". It set the standards for so many other puzzle games and is still the ideal mechanics for a Tetris game. And it's portable to boot. |
As if I need to put any thought into this. :psyduck:
Toejam and Earl 1. The first game I ever saw two players cooperatively helping together to share presents/items and one of the first cooperative games I've ever played. Instead of it being a competitive game, you actually helped eachother. It's rare, I know, but there isn't a large supply of games where they're 1) cooperative and 2) able to have a single player on a certain level while the second player, on an entirely different level, roams around. In fact I've never come across another game quite like this. It's relatively long (25 levels) and it can last you a good night to play through it by yourself. The random map generator is also great, so you technically aren't playing the same game over and over. There's also Ecco, the first title, but I wouldn't call it perfect. Near perfect maybe. Same goes for the likes of Chrono Trigger, Super Metroid, Rayman, Lemmings, and so on. But they all have their flaws. Then again I'm sure Toejam and Earl isn't without it's flaws either. It's rather slow and that irrirates some people. Other people just can't stand the amount of roaming around and searching the game has. Plus, you can kill yourself by opening an unsuspecting present which flat out electrocutes you to death. But uh, yeah I don't really see these as huge issues. |
I have a few...
Shadow of the Colossus: I feel that this is THE defining game of this past generation. It is, unquestionably, one of the most beautiful games I've ever played, aurally, visually, and emotionally. You can't tell me you didn't feel like a black hole started to consume your soul when... Spoiler:
It's really just too brilliant for words. I love this game to death. Megaman 2: This was the defining game for me when I first started playing video games. I've always placed the Megaman series high up on my list of favorite video game series, and MM2 is the pinnacle of the series. Gunstar Heroes: Insane, INSANE action, guns, explosions, and fucking sick guns. And to top it off, it's not too hard like Contra. It's a perfect action game, one of the best I've ever played. The Guardian Legend: This game blew me away when I first played it on the NES. It has such an INCREDIBLE amount of depth that I'm willing to flat out admit that I've never seen on an NES game, let alone some SNES games. It combines top-down action-adventure with RPG leveling/upgrade elements and then mixes that with a great vertical space shooter. One of my all time faves! Metroid Prime: Say what you will, but I think this is the best console FPS ever made. The environments, the scope, the size, everything. This game has it all. It took the 2D experience and translated it to 3D with PERFECTION! Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time: While I love LttP, I give my nod to Ocarina because like Metroid Prime, it successfully took a 2D series and brought it to life in 3D. Above that, it had an enormous amount of fun side quests, and lasted tons of hours beyond it's initial story. It's the only game where I've had an equal amount of fun with the side quests and the main story. Brilliant! One more... Guitar Hero: I've never had a video game last me more than a month that wasn't an RPG. Guitar Hero 1 lasted me 10 months, and the only reason I stopped playing it was because Guitar Hero 2 came out. It's the ultimate pick-up-and-play game, and it really brings people together. It's a great social game, and makes it one of the funnest games I've ever played. |
Most of the games that just clicked for me have been listed...
1) Zelda Ocarina of Time: Oh, except for this! I understand why people chose LttP over Oot, but for me this game just worked out for me. It was "perfect". This remains true today as I compare how much of an impact certain games have had on me (as against how OoT affected me). 2) Resident Evil 4: Everything was right on target. Nice graphics, great soundtrack, awesome ambience and gun-toting gameplay. Allowed me to enter the world of Resi Evil more than its predecessors 3) F-Zero GX: A racer that just 'clicked'. I'm not a big fan of realistic racers, so F-Zero's stupidly sense of speed, great graphics. sweet soundtrack and tight gameplay really won me over. The difficulty rewarded the dedicated: hard, but certainly not impossible. 4) Ico: An adventure that's once in a lifetime. As an adventure game, this game has come pretty close to impacting me as OoT did. Excellent mood, awesome graphics and isolated atmosphere all helped this game deliver a great experience. All of these games really grabbed my attention and are therefore on my list of 'perfect' games. Sure all of them have faults, but it's the experience I got from playing them that makes them so great. |
I think there is no such thing such as "perfect game", but I have two in my mind for RPG: Final Fantasy Tactics (PSX, 1997) and Saga Frontier (PSX, 1997), and one for puzzle: Tetris
Final Fantasy Tactics is probably the best strategic game ever, despite its north american version have inaccurate translation, mini games being removed and a very limited party member. I couldnt tell how much I adore the system of this game. The job and skill system is just uber amazing, which is the reason I hate Final Fantasy Tactics Advance to death. Saga Frontier, though it's very obscure game with a very different system compared to traditional rpg, I surprisingly like this game very much, it's only the second of my favorite after Final Fantasy Tactics. Man, I think I overplay it too much, I think it almost counts to 20 already. :) Tetris, what could I say? I think this game is very fun and I havent been able to defeat it even once since the day I had my old gameboy. This is probably the most perfect of all game. But again, I dont think there is no such perfect game, but well, these three are what I think at the moment. Quote:
It's probably because Chrono Trigger is the first RPG I played and I grew playing Squaresoft franchises. |
Oooo nice topic.
Well, I have several games that I consider flawless. The first being Earthbound ofcourse. PERFECT in my eyes. Yeah it's a simple story but what game isn't to an extent? The characters defintely make up for the story line. Usually in games side characters are boring and annoying, but most of the side characters in the game are so funny and interesting; each resident has a different personality. The unique and quirky qualities really add to the game. What RPG are you going to find that has hamburgers to replenish your HP? Not only hamburgers but other types of foods, cake, sandwiches, pizza etc. You can get an ATM card! I love Ness' dad for putting so much money in my account after battles. I thank him. haha So yeah in conclusion, this game is flawless. Legend of the Dragoon. I don't think there was anything to make this game better than it already is. The story line is amazing, character development is so in depth that I truly feel for each character, even the "evil" characters. I love the gameplay; it is truly unique. Oh and the fact that LOTD is pretty long is a plus for me (I love long games). LOTD also provides great memories for me. We Y Katamari. When I'm feeling down I play this game. It's just fun and the music is catchy. Addicting game! |
In my opinion, Link's Awakening blows A Link to the Past out of the water. While LttP is certainly a great game, Link's Awakening and the experience I had playing it make it my favorite. The story, while never at the forefront, is much more involving and complex than any other Zelda game, especially LttP (which had virtually no story). The gameplay had all of the brilliant elements LttP created and expanded upon them, bringing new and more versatile items to your arsenal. The dungeons felt richer and more challenging, as did the bosses. And Link's Awakening was the first Zelda game to really push the idea of sidequests and other activities to do outside of dungeons (other than finding your way to the next dungeon), which I really love about all the later Zelda games. It also had characters you cared about, and the ending came as a total surprise, both devastating and profoundly beautiful after having played it for so long and put so much time into it.
That's the perfect game for me, bar none. |
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Now for the second game I consider to be perfect; though I'm sure this choice isn't going to be quite as well received. Why this one? Timing has a lot to do with it. In a time when the PS2 was still new and pushing next gen graphics, this was the one game everyone was waiting to see in action. The demo was utterly amazing, and the real game managed to outdo it. Even though the PS2 was already nearly a year old, it felt like you were playing it for the first time. Yes, there are notable criticisms, in the form of Jack and Rose. I consider the latter to be a rather insignificant player in the grand scheme of things, so I don't consider her whiny codec conversations to be either a positive or negative. And as for Raiden, heck I loved Raiden, at least in concept; having him turn out to be the "real" main character, even going so far as to show Snake traversing the Plant in early trailers, was a ballsy but brilliant move. And even though Raiden doesn't hold a candle to Snake's badass attitude, that was never the intention; instead, you were given a chance to get to know Snake and his motives in a way that would've been impossible if he was still the main character. I think I can squeeze in a third game that I consider to be "perfect". More on that later. |
There's no such thing as a perfect game. A perfect game means everything is perfect. Sorry, no such game exists.
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1. The amount of items in the japanese game fills up your inventory window too early in the game. I don't even give a crap whatsoever about those items. Oh my god, they seperated all of the status-curing items instead of grouping it into one item called "Heal" like the USA one has. It's such a hard game. Oh no! The items being seperated or all in one doesn't add a challenge to me. I like to refer to the other one as the "annoying type". 2. "Several battle commands have been removed—including Tellah's Recall (allowing him to use a random magic spell), Edward's Medicine (which used Potions from the player's inventory to heal the entire party), and Cecil's DarkWave, etc". Hmmmm.. let's see... how does keeping options that help you in battles make things harder? It doesn't. It makes it easier. 3. I have beat the supposed "hard type" and it did not feel any harder whatsoever in terms of boss & enemy power. 4. Translation compared to which one? The ps1 and gba remakes have left out the classics like "Spoony Bard" and "Ohh.. getting cozy". Take a look at my first post on page 1 of the thread. Look at he quotes from the story. They are great, emotional quotes. There's nothing wrong with them. Also, I am so obsessed with FF4 that I have compared the three translations (SNES, PS1 and GBA). The American SNES one is superior. For example: Spoiler:
Reply back about this if you want. I am always open to talking about my perfect video game -- all versions. |
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May as well add another one that hasn't been mentioned yet: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...t67/dkc2_2.jpg Donkey Kong Country 2 improves on the original in every way. Better level designs, more varied environments and obstacles, a greater level of difficulty, and a totally awesome soundtrack. It's a classic in every respect and the peak of the DKC series for me. It has virtually no shortcomings and it's one of my all time favorite platformers. Btw, TJ&E (ahead of its time), Earthbound (brilliantly comedic), Metroid Prime (Metroid excellence in 3D), and SoR2 (best beat 'em up I've ever played) are all personal favorites of mine as well. |
Valkyrie Profile:
This is one of my few games that i actually consider perfect. It has beautiful characters, kick ass storyline, amazing graphics, unique gameplay and a pretty damn good soundtrack. Some people say that the voice acting wasn't great. Despite some very few characters i found the voice acting pretty decent. I don't know, is not that i'm a fanboy or anything, but Lenneth voice is supposed to be "emotionless". And i can't get tired of hearing Lezard saying "Prismatic Missile". I finished the game like 7 or 8 times and i can't really get tired of it. I'm also planning on buying the PSP to have that port :erm: (one of my two reason for buiyng the psp now, finally Portable Ops is out). |
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The only thing I think games should be "required" to have in order to be perfect to any particular person is entertainment value. How it is achieved, either by "masterful & cinematic story" sequences or kickass gameplay, is entirely at the discretion of each respective game. It is the sole reason there is such diversity in what people find perfect, from Katamari to Tetris to Mario to Metroid to Final Fantasy. I'm quite surprised you choose to dote on Dragon Quest so much, then say that. I guess your views have changed over the years. |
I second EarthBound. I've played this RPG more than any other I own, over 8 complete play throughs, at LEAST. Lalala (EB Chick) said it right that each NPC has a personality of his/her own. It adds an exciting depth to the game when you wonder what the story is with individual NPCs, and even main plot NPCs alike. The whole game makes you wonder a bit, because it is set in modern day. The story is a bit simple, but what's the big deal? It's a wacky adventure that provides a lot of memorable scenes such as exploring a man who was transformed into a dungeon. Using "Pencil Erasers" to get rid of annoying pencil-shaped statues in your path. Saturn Valley - home of the Mr. Saturns? Master Belch and his fly-honey factory? The mysterious nature of the sanctuary spots... it's wonderous. Any RPG fan should play this game.
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In fact, it's well known by people who know me that 80% of how I score a video game is based on how good gameplay is, while 20% is based on music, story, and extras. We are just at a complete difference of opinion. For example, Tetris is a rather perfect puzzle game, and requires no storyline to earn that label. I simply believe that RPGs (my favorite genre) are held to a very high standard. Sure, I didn't expect cinematics on original NES, but I keep my definition of a perfect RPG (keyword: RPG. I didnt mean to say "GAME" in general) the same. And the reason for that is because I expect their storylines to really move me and their gameplay be brilliant. If they excel at both, they are perfect to me. DQ8 is pretty close to perfection because of it's storyline and gameplay, but DQ8 didn't make my top 5 and it's gameplay isn't as excellent as 3's. So in review: DW3 has perfect gameplay. FF4 is a perfect RPG (story + gameplay), thus a perfect game. Tetris is a perfect puzzle game, thus a perfect game. An RPG must be perfect in both aspects to be rated a perfect game to me. To me, it is entertainment value for most genres, but not RPGs. Also keep in mind there are rarely any perfect video games to me. I find things like DW3, Shining Force CD, and other stuff EXTREMELY GOOD GAMES but it takes a lot for the honor of being called perfect. |
Ninja Gaiden Black and Super Mario World. That's it. I could go into details as to why each are perfect in my opinion, but I don't feel like it. I mean, if everything is perfect about it, what's there to write a paragraph about?
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I'm not ragging on FFIV at all here as it is an excellent game in it's own right, but you have to be sorely mistaken if you think FFIV's gameplay hangs with Dragon Quest III. Dragon Quest is BUILT on gameplay, that's why it has the following it does. FFIV is superior in story and characterization, DQIII is superior in gameplay and customization. Since gameplay has a higher value than story and characterization well, you get the idea. Don't say it doesn't either, because nobody will play a game they hate to play because the story is badass, whereas anyone will play a fun game with little story. |
Okay well, first I'll go ahead and renominate Chrono Trigger, for obvious and already-stated reasons. I'll also renominate Valkyrie Profile.
As far as new stuff goes? First up is Dark Cloud 2. Has there even been another game that has improved so dynamically upon its predecessor? No. None that you could convince me of, anyway, save maybe for Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Maybe. In any case, the only plausible flaw that game has is the dungeon crawling which, compared to the first game, wasn't bad at all. In fact, it's perfect for the kind of game DC2 is, so that disqualifies the flaw. It's bright, vivid, has some great characters and a decent musical score as well. And the Atlamilia and rebuilding cities? Yeah, that's made of nothing but win. Another new one for the crowd -- Sim City on the SNES. I left my SNES on for a week just to let my population reach its peak of "megapolis" or something to that effect. I had so much fun building cities that time seemed of little consequence while playing. No other Sim City game has come close to recreating that experience for me. Age of Empires II was also fun as hell. I really enjoyed just playing random games, but damn was AoE 2 fun. I played for hours on end just messin around. Dunno what it was about the game, but it, along with its predecessor, laid the groundwork for my future RTS experiences. Zone of the Enders 2 was awesome. I've played through it at least 20+ times. I love mech combat, and the controls for ZOE2 are little short of flawless. It's a beautiful game too, with a mix of cel-shading and 3D for everything. A few of the battles are stand-out too, namely the one with Zakat, the huge Dynasty Warriors-esque fight, and the fight with Ardjet when it was contaminated by Viola. Win. Last but never, ever least -- Okami. Okami made me say "Fuck Zelda." A goddess reborn into a wolf to tell one of the most fascinating and creative stories ever puts Okami at the absolute #1 point on my list. The watercolor cel-shading was absolutely perfect for Okami's tale, leaving nothing to be desired graphically. The score was absolutely fitting in every instance music was playing. Combat was great fun -- playing a huge-sword wielding, bead-whip wearing, shield-bashing wolf goddess was awesome. And oh yeah, the Celestial Brush? Best. Gameplay mechanic. EVER. Everytime I gained a new brush technique I would return to old areas and try the new tricks out, and that was something Okami truly shined in -- bringing you back to the first areas. There wasn't anything I didn't enjoy doing in Okami, and I hope another developer will be brave and take on the daunting task of creating another game like Okami, since hte most awesome and incredible Clover Studios is out of the picture. |
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Differences between us: Borg = Entertainment value for most genres is good enough to decide on giving the perfect title. RPG's = Gameplay + Storyline must be perfect to gain the title. You = Entertainment value must be perfect for any genre for it to gain that title. So, for example, there is heavy entertainment value when I play the addicting game "Diablo 2". It is pretty much like crack. But overall fulfillment is a term that has not been brought up yet. Sure, I can play Diablo 2 and get entertainment at the time of my playing it, but afterward, or reflecting on it, or looking back, there was no character-based storyline, there were no cool extra fun things to do, and so the fulfillment is less. DW3 has no cinematic storyline, but it fulfills me in every bit of gameplay that I asked it for. I think I get your point now, though. You are trying to argue that almost all DW is not built upon story at all. It is built upon great gameplay. I like gameplay the most, of course, too. That's why DW > FF (as a series). So, you are saying I should admit that my favorite DW is a perfect game because of it's great, great gameplay that we both love so much. Can't do it. I can say that, knowing full well that DW is built upon gameplay, that it is the absolute PERFECT DRAGON WARRIOR there is. But not the perfect game, let alone RPG. |
I think opinion has little to do with the idea that you claim both games have the same level of gameplay value. Which you do of course, because you raise FFIV over DQIII because FFIV has both and DQIII only has one. That is false, regardless of who you are or how you look at it.
I don't want you to admit anything, but I will call you on the fallacy of FFIV being "perfect" because you think it has equal gameplay value to Dragon Quest III. I never said anything about the story value in any DQ game, but I did state that FFIV has superior story value. It simply negates your qualifications of FFIV being "perfect" when it simply does not have the gameplay aspect, much like Dragon Quest does not have the story/cinematic aspect. Even so, I continue to believe Dragon Quest III is perfect, and you continue to believe that Final Fantasy IV is. We agree to disagree, and are essentially both hypocrites when applied to your standard. Oh well. |
It seems like you keep bringing up what your opinion is of FF4 and how it does not deserve to be a perfect game just because you believe the gameplay is worse. I like the gameplay of FF4 the most, having experienced every FF and DW game because:
1. Specific character classes, pretty much equalized. 2. You cannot splurge yourself in getting the best spell in the game for everyone like on some games. There are specific boundries so that everyone must work as a team in the battle to defeat it. (This is not an argument against my 5th favorite game, remember. I'm stating why FF4 is on top, that's all). 3. The bosses are some of my favorite. There are elemental ones, there are tough summons, and there are ones that you must use specific strategy like bouncing a spell off of an ally so it goes to the enemy. Many Final Fantasy bosses are actually more fun to face than Dragon Warrior bosses (although sometimes DW ones are harder, at the core). 4. Has my favorite spells. I also end up using every single spell rather than get tons of magic like on FF6 or 7 and only end up using half of the available beacuse a lot of it is useless. 5. Has my favorite summons. Asura, Baham, Odin, etc. 6. Getting the best weapons and armor in the game usually means defeating placed bosses beforehand to prove yourself. 7. ATB is a great system. Can't think of what else right now. So you said "when it simply does not have the gameplay aspect"... that is your view of it. Mine is different. |
Like I said, what I've brought up concerning FFIV is not opinion. It is established fact.
1. Equalization leads to zero customization. 2. This is false. I've gotten up to the point where when you regain a certain character in the Underworld, she already had the use of Meteo. Like in all games, you can powerlevel to that point. So this point is invalidated. 3. Opinionated, many said elements also exist in Dragon Quest III. Additionally, I could say that Dragon Quest III's Metabble/Metal Babble is consequently the same as FFIV's Pink Puff. 4. Opinionated, many said situations also occur in Dragon Quest III. 5. Opinionated, Bahamut's Megaflare is no better than Explodet in terms of effect, they only differ in graphical structure. Both achieve the same result. The others also have similar spell structure and graphics. This is NES versus SNES, so I'm allowing a discrepancy between the graphical capabilities. This is fair enough. 6. Opinionated, as one might find surviving a long dungeon trek to get them from various points (Rubiss' Tower/Charlock Castle) a task as difficult as winning a few key battles. 7. Opinionated, ATB wasn't exactly groundbreaking at the time. FFIV only drew what value it had into the light, as only a FF could. This is all fine and good, but don't dredge Dragon Quest III into the ground and say Final Fantasy IV has greater gameplay potential. I will agree with you that it has the superior story and characterization, and a lot of depth over Dragon Quest III. Everything else may be your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but as I already said under your standards of perfection Final Fantasy IV falls short of perfect. You may amend those standards, if you like. EDIT: I apologize for the slight thread derailment here, this should be over shortly. |
(This is not an argument against my 5th favorite game, remember. I'm stating why FF4 is on top, that's all).
^ you may have missed that part. That goes for any point I was trying to make about FF4. And of course all of that is opinionated. Also, just because DW3 might have more "gameplay potential" just because you can choose what classes you want, doesn't mean it has better caves, bosses, monsters, etc. But enough opinion. Wouldn't you think that the perfect RPG game ever made would have the best gameplay, cinematical story, characters, side quests & other side fun things to do? Pretend that exists for you. Then why is it so hard to understand that FF4 is close to perfect because it suits what I want in terms of those things? You could be achieving maximum entertainment value if DW3 had more than just having the best classic gameplay in the world of gaming. But it doesn't have a lot more. (remember, this isn't me making fun of my 5th best. Gameplay is more important to me than any other aspect, but adding the best story, cinematics, side quests, etc, would make a game like that absolutely perfect in every way -- (EDIT): -- perfect in all the ways that you can possibly be in a game. You are forcing yourself to think that perfection begins and ends in just gameplay for some reason, yet would (i hope) admit that a perfect game would consitute perfect gameplay, chars, story, sidequests, etc). So, if DW3 had a brilliant plot & characters with the same gameplay, it would officially be my perfect game, and FF4 would not because it would, for example, be the same but without the storyline. I don't know how else to explain this and its almost 6am :) |
Then simply say that Dragon Quest III does not suit what you want, rather than say that because it lacks something it has no business being called a perfect game. There's no reason to continually reiterate that Dragon Quest III is your 5th favorite game either, we get that already.
Easy enough, eh? |
Are people actually arguing something based on pure opinion? lewl
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Please read my edit in the above post as well.
Double Post: We are technically arguing over the definition of "perfect" here. I don't think it begins and ends with gameplay, if i were to create a perfect video game in my mind. It would be perfect in every last area. Period. Thank god FF4 exists because it is, especially for it's time, what i would consider perfect. Now of course the bar has raised a lot and I'm sure we are all still waiting for something perfect to arrive. |
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o lawl u Also we are not arguing the definition of perfect, because that definition is quite subjective. Rather, we are arguing over what his standards are for perfection, because he seems to claim that both games have an equal level of gameplay value as fact, which is not so. |
...as opinion.
But back to the "perfection" thing... It only matters what we perceieve or want as perfect. So, can you tell me exactly what you would want? Or is the answer always going to be as simple as: "The highest entertainment value that I can get" (which i still think is vague, because my highest entertainment value is all of those things i listed before, so what are yours)? |
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No need to continue, I was simply looking to see why such a hardcore Dragon Quest fan suddenly lost faith in his series by reducing it to 5th on his list. |
Stating that a game is perfect is based solely on opinion. That is, the opinion of what perfect actually is. Many people judge based on different elements of the game that they find applicable, or which appeals to them most. That being said, it is pointless to argue over who's view of "perfect" is more valid, because there is no factual definition of perfect (aside from having no flaws lolz) that can be used in this situation.
So in other words.. IT'S SIX IN THE MORNING WHY AM I HERE POSTING |
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Nobody was arguing about who's definition of perfect was the most valid, lol. He raised his own standards up and I argued against his own standard, not my own against his. I wonder how many people will read and respond the same way, heh.
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So you're essentially trying to discredit his opinion using his own logic? Brilliant!
lol arguments about arguments about perfection are neato |
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I'm quite surprised if you never had a Dragon Quest in at least first to third spot on your list with as much as you enjoyed discussing and talking about the series. This was partially why I started this argument, to see why you suddenly put other series above it. Suffice to say, I've never quite seen any lists of yours lol. |
I regard my top 5 as extremely good. The 6th game, whatever that may be, is a few notches lower than those. I also regard gameplay as the most important thing, just like you. But obviously it would not hurt to add a brilliant storyline, characters, sidequests, etc, to have it be that much better, and thus make it "perfect" or "over the top". That is my entire point. That's why I stayed up til almost 7 tonight. See what I mean?
So I already talked about FF4.... The reason why Shining Force CD and 3 are above DW3 is that I love the strategy gameplay and the fact that the characters are specific classes just like my other favorite games. Gotta love specific classes. Finally, FF1 was more challenging to me than DW3. I can see why DW3 is your fav. though -- the classes are brilliant. And there are more than FF1. EDIT: The rest of the FF series is below (and in some cases FAR, FAR below) the DW series to me, fyi. Only two games made it up higher -- and not by much. You can rest assured now that I have faith. I also have faith in level 5's ability to make DQ9. So, What is your top 5 of RPGs all-time? I shall leave the thread tonight with that, and hopefully wake up at 1pm to get sleep! Cya! |
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The game is perfect. It's a point and click adventure. It tells a simple, compelling story. The puzzles are varied and unique and use every trick the DS is capable of. The graphics are nice, the music is nice. The art is fantastic. This game is the complete package. http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...CLZZZZZZZ_.jpg I'm trying to think of a bad point of this game and there are none. It's perfect. Quote:
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Final Fantasy VI.
I remember it well. I went to a friend's house who had just rented the game. I stated to play Final fantasy VI, facing the Snail creature, quickly finding out how to beat him. Spoiler:
After that, I was hooked. My friend returned the game, only for me to rent it that evening for a weekend. Then I rented it again for another weekend. And then another. Even after I put it on my Christmas list, i still would literally use every penny I could to rent that game and play it. I vaguely remember if I made it to the Spoiler:
or not. However, I remember having NO problem starting over. I remember Christmas day as well. My gparents got the game...Final Fantasy LEGEND 3. OHHHHH the horror! Thankfully, my parents could detect major fake happiness, and my dad actually used his Christmas money to make up the extra amount for the game after he brought the gameback for Final Fantasy 3 U.S. I literally played the game from the day after Christmas until February, non-stop. I even had to beat the ending twice (my brother basically whined that he wasn'table to watch his t.v. show in which my mom yelled at me to turn the game off despite watching the ending). I eventually made a "tradition" of beating the game each year, from about eighth grade on, when the year ending. I guess I saw the culmination of a school year was similar to a culmination of the game. I spent countless hours on building my characters levels (in fact, once I learned what the Esper system was all about, I made a totally new game devoted to create ultra powerful characters). Rages, Lores, Mega-Elixers and Elixers, yep, I tried to get it all. This game was also the only game I can think of that people even managed to start rumors about. No other game could be so good that it had it's own rumor department (notable example would be Seigfried and Leo). The soundtrack rocked too. Even in my early college years, I would put the entire soundtrack in my CD player to listen to. It was the first video game soundtrack I ever had too. Top marks all the way! |
one of the most perfect games for me was Final Fantasy 9, it pretty much covered all the bases. sound, graphics, action, a full tour de force for me
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Yoshi's Island to me, is the perfection of side-scrolling platform games. It has a great variety of levels. They never get repetitive and are well done and often original. The graphics are unique and nicely done pushing the SNES to it's very limits. Plus it had a great amount of secrets including levels and minigames. I guess the only 'bad' things about it is Mario's cries, but really they never bothered me and the fact it has to end eventually.
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Repbulic is another game that is perfect to me. It has a fantastic pseudo non linear storyline that is very engaging and the choices that you make can affect the outcome. It's not as deep as PC RPGs nor as shallow as console RPGs, it has just the right mix of storyline and user control. I second or third or whatever Super Metroid, Metroid Prime, Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. |
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*finger-crack* Let's get rolling!
(in no particular order) 1) Shenmue 1 -- Voice acting was shit, but I credit that to the translators. The game itself is fucking solid. I love it to death. It's not for everyone, certainly. But it remains at the top of all other games, in my mind. Such a damn unique genre, and the story is fantastic. I just love detective-like games. And it progresses realisitcally. You are on Long Di's trail the whole first game, but never see him after the opening. Always feels like you are so, so far away. But the gap closes one inch at a time. 2) Shenmue 2 -- I got the PAL version of this and boot it up with a boot disk. Holy fuck, I absolutely love it. Ryo gets to Hong Kong, but he loses all his cash. So, his whole goal is sidetracked as he sniffs out jobs for money, just so he can get by. Just like #1, minigames galore. I hope to god that someday, the series resumes... Because I fucking love it. 3) Shining Force 1 -- Ahh, memories... First Genesis RPG that I can recall playing. Story wasn't much to write home about, but I loved the gameplay. First tactical RPG evah~ 4) Shining Force 2 -- I REALLY don't need to say much more. Fantastic gameplay AND a good storyline. 5) Shining Force CD -- A little-known release that comprised a graphically updated Sword of Haiyja and the preceding game focusing on Nick. It has a bonus scenario following that, and a boss mode. The music is phenomenal, to boot. I have the full game on a CD around here with a rom sewn to its hip. Its soundtrack is attached as well, o'course! 6) Shining Force III -- Seeing a trend? I've played most of the First Book and love it (muted the voices though. Worst dub job ever... Irene/Airen sounds like Mr. Hankey). It's just more of the same wonderful formula, but gameplay is tweaked. Magic gets stronger as you level. I got such a cackle out of that when I first saw it. 7) Dragon Force 1 -- OMFG. Fantastic game... I always played as Wein initially, then I'd play under that Easternish country... Samurai and all that jazz. I downright love the gameplay and strategy. Get up to 100 men onscreen for your side and order tactics and what-have-you. Duels at just badass. 90% of the time, mages will flee, but if you get down to general-on-general, your dude can challenge the opposing general to a duel. And you just hack the shit out of eachother. I love it <3 8) Lunar: Silver Star Story, Lunar: SSSC, Lunar: Eternal Blue, Lunar: EBC -- I played these on Sega CD as well as their redone versions on the PS2. Absolutely badass. Working Designs was so damn awesome. I loved their localization jokes and what-have-you. Their translation job tended to make their games about 50% cooler. And voice outtakes? Bwahaha ;D 9) Arc the Lad Trilogy -- Another Working Designs translation job! Three in a row, eh? I loved playing through these games. #1 is an old cookie-cutter PS1 RPG, but the second one gets some real depth to it. #3 was a refreshing change, but #2 is just so damn hard to follow. Still! The "Force Ring" ability in #3 remains one of the coolest special moves ='D 10) Final Fantasy IV -- It's been addressed already... I always get chills seeing Rydia reappear, I must say. Most fucking awesome twist ever. 11) Final Fantasy VI -- Nostalgia factor! Falls apart in the second half, but the first half is absolutely wonderful. They were rushed, it seems... Guh. Had promise. 12) Xenogears -- Up until the last disk? Perfection. Then it slips. But still, I can't fault it due to that slip. It did the same as FFVI and went south once winter hit, if you will. 13) Grim Fandango -- Ask Enceph. He knows what I'm talkin' about~ There are more. Trust me =o But this is all that comes to mind at the moment! |
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FFVI though, does not slip. The story was not about toppling the Empire. It was about hope and seeing how each character came to let go of the past and find a reason to continue pushing forward. The World of Ruin served as a compelling way to spotlight the characters and that struggle. Rather than taunt you with a doomsday device like other RPGs do, FFVI dared to have the villain succeed and then your people have to pick themselves up from defeat and try again. FFVI from the beginning is more a character-driven story than a plot-driven one. The open-ended gameplay of the second half only serves to complement the more linear and plot-driven first half. |
Pardon me for my opinion, but I hate the world of ruin =p It changes heroines, just about. I would've preferred if it remained focused on Terra exclusively rather than changing hands to Celes. Japanese RPGs are, by nature, linear.
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I wholly agree with the virtues of SORII, OoT/MM and MP1+2. I'd like to add my own Castleroids into the lot, as well as Tekken Tag/5, Sonic 2 Genesis, GoldenEye 007 and the original Snake :)
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I'm glad this thread didn't get derailed... It has alot going for it.
@Megavolt I too am one that has trouble with the world of ruin part of FF6. I'm not particularly sure what it is that I don't like, but I think it has to do with the non-linear nature of it. Ya know, the whole "go find the characters who are now consumed in there own little world, and convince them to fight." At the point before the ruined world, it seemed like the characters were beyond that for the most part. And the fact that you don't even need to get alot of the "main" characters seems odd to me. This is also the point in the game where the espers giving magic abilities makes the game start to unravel a bit for me. Everyone becomes a great spell caster because of leveling up. I dunno, I mean I love the game and have a FFIII SNES save with most (if not every) character at lvl 99, and I've played the game to death. But at the same time, the overall fulfilling feeling i got at the end was/is not very strong. And the lack of that fulfilling feeling, keeps me from wanting to play the game again. That being said, I can totally understand why one would have it on their perfect list. It is quite the game. And if I liked the World of Ruin part, then this game would be probably be at the top for me as well. |
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What ramped up the emotional experience you mention was the fact that you knew that you were killing these living creatures to save the girl. You knew you were doing evil so you could do good. It was incredibly painful for Wander, as you could see every time you defeated one of the colossi. And yeah, that part you hid was sad. I was surprised when it happened. I also wanted to second Half-Life 2 and the Metroid games. One game that's missing from this thread is Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater. The MGS games have all been great, but this one trumps them all. The story was crucial, especially coming after the derailing that was MGS2. Everything was perfect: the first encounter with Ocelot, Eva's part, the way The Boss carried out her agenda and tried to reason with Snake, and lets not forget the final battle with The Boss. The end was very sad as well. Everything Snake went through during that mission to have it turn out like that was heartbreaking. It really helps you to see why Big Boss turned out the way he did. |
I would have to agree with Snake Eater needing a nod for this thread. While I highly enjoyed the first two games the third is the defining Metal Gear game. The Boss/Naked Snake relationship was the most touching and best feature I have seen in a long while. I also really like the dialog between those two characters and the whole theme on loyalty. Since I study philosophy, when Boss asked what Snake was loyal to: the mission, his country, the end, "to me," that really had an impact on me. Everything just comes together so well. I'll cry if the Snake Eater Digital Graphic Novel for the PSP doesn't get the green light.
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No game is perfect. However, to avoid being a troll, I'll list those I feel come closest. In no particular order: Super Mario World: Never had level-design in a 2D platformer been so complex, and yet so beautifully simple at the same time. I still play this game all the time. It's always going to remain a favourite. Super Metroid: The sense of discovery and exploration, along with the gradual increase in the powers available to the player made this game constantly interesting and always fun. There were very few noticeable flaws, and it inspired a legion of imitators. Disgaea: It is of course, open to the accusation that all one must do is grind sufficiently, and then cruise through the rest of the game on autopilot, but I've never had so much fun discovering the limits of powergaming. Making my characters all they can be is a task that required genuine thought. That's rare. Katamari Damacy: Somewhat more tight and lean than the sequel, and thus gains the higher accolade from me. Nothing like this had ever been done before. We <3 Katamari wins praise too, just not so much. After all, by thate time, we'd seen it before. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night: Take the formula invented by Super Metroid, and fuse it with the setting from Castlevania, and you have a game which is scarcely original, but which did almost everything right. This game should be required reading for any would-be game designer. The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past: In some ways, the feel is the same as Super Metroid. The more toys you get, the more stuff you can do. However, in other ways, this game distinguishes itself far above comparisons, and has never been equalled, much less bettered, by the other games in the franchise. |
Dahahah. I forgot to add MGS3: Snake Eater to the list! Oh man is that ever a kickass game. Best movie I ever played~
Really does a nice job of jerking tears at points. Plus, I loved the sort of Bond/Cold War spin on things. |
No game is perfect: already been said, but I agree. What follows is the closest anyone's got to perfection (and it's gotten close).
-Final Fantasy VII- Cliche, but all too true. I love the story of this game to death, it stands as one of the best plots in any medium. -Goldeneye 007- If anyone has played this game so much as I have (and so recently) then you know how awesome is was and still is. -Metroid Prime- The best Gamecube game, in my opinion, and well deserved. The graphics are STILL amazing, the gameplay is STILL novel, and the game just evokes an amazement I will never really experience again, considering it was my first fourth-gen game I played. -System Shock 2- Not only is it amazingly cinematic and fun, but it's also one of the scariest games I have ever played. Well crafted is an understatement. -Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance- Personally, I believe it was here that Konami got the Metroid-vania down perfectly. I played this one first, and after played Symphony, yeah, it was good, but this one beats it better. Too bad I sold my copy oh so long ago... -Super Mario 64- My first game. Enough said. Time for my LttP speech. Ahem. The Legend of Zelda is definitely not my favorite series, regardless of my avatar, and although I enjoy the games very much, I find that the defining points of the games are what makes me tick. The save system has always been a problem with every game for me. The story is the most boring thing besides Mario the developers can think up (although WW has a moment or two, and I hear good things about TP). And the gameplay is, while good, fundamentally the same. I'm not bashing LOZ, here, I have every game, and have enjoyed them all. What I am saying is that the are definitely NOT the best. LttP, for example, has some small but nagging flaws. The lack of a coherent story, for example, and an annoyingly outdated difficulty curve. It's essentially the first half an hour over and over again the entire game. I did not get into Video Games until the N64 era, but when I go back to LttP, I just drop it and go, OOT is so much better. The presentation is better, as well as difficulty, story, and general awe factor. LttP is fun, and I think it's a great GBA game, but for console and handheld, OOT wins. We'll see how good TP is, though. 6 days. XD. |
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"Perfect" by definition means without flaw. Final Fantasy IV has too many major flaws to list. Let's go through some of them. Disclaimer: I haven't played FFIV in about a year or two, so I don't remember some of the details about the game. Feel free to correct me if I'm blatantly mistaken on something. 1) Worst script ever. I should probably actually say that it's the worst translation ever, though. Take a look at your signature, my friend. What the fuck does any of that even mean? If the "legend" is about Cecil, then I would like to point out that he did not hoist the dark and the light - he abandoned the dark for the light about 5 hours into the game. Also, "arises high up in the sky?" Did no one proofread this? What about the second of this disgusting pair of run-on sentences, where an unknown "it" is mentioned... you know I was actually going to try and deconstruct how foolish this sentence is, but there's not a single word of it that makes any sense. And the sad thing is almost the entire game is like this. Whoever was placed in charge of translating the game is a damn fool. I don't understand how you're going to tell me the Japanese people who designed the original game are culturally learned enough to name the 4 Mad Gods or whatever they called them in this game (the Fiends of the Elements? whatever) after characters from Dante, but the translator wasn't learned enough to pick up on that? Wow, what a perfect game. 2) Gameplay: Active Time Battle was a farce. Once someone's bar was full, you had to move them - you could not skip them to have someone else take a potentially more important turn, such as ressurecting a dead character, first. This feature was added to all subsequent Final Fantasies. It was a glaring omission. There is no case that can be made for it. There are several nearly game-breaking glitches, like the notorious item cloning glitch. The lack of customization is not intrinsically a good thing. Yes it means you have to use "Strategy" to beat the bosses. But it also means you have to use one strategy to beat the bosses. This would be like taking a game like Metal Gear Solid and forcing you to play the entire game through the same way every time. One of the things that makes that series brilliant is that you can take several approaches to any situation. Why is forcing you to fight battles in a particular way a more fun way to play? 3) Graphics. I'm faaar from a graphics whore. But FFIV looks almost no different from FFIII in field screens, and the most major difference in battles is that the backgrounds are now tiled across the whole screen instead of just the top. When you consider the monumental upgrade other NES franchises received on the Super NES, it's criminal that Final Fantasy didn't really get one until FFVI. (At least FFV had a good game backing up its shitty graphics, though.) 4) Spoiler:
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chrono trigger is one of my all time favourites. this game is perfect! memorable soundtrack, excellent character design from dragonball artist, well though storyline and high replay value.
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@BurningRanger
Did you even read the OP? This thread is talking about perfect to yourself. To me FFIV is perfect. To you, I'm sure that it's not perfect. But let me try to explain why the "flaws" that you point out, are nulled in my opinion. 1) Worst script ever? Hardly. It does have translational errors when compared to the Japanese version, but not necessarily when compared to itself. The aforementioned "legend" in Borg's sig sounds cryptic, but hardly erroneous. Light = cecil, dark = golbez (who both go to fight Zeromus). Other translational errors such as "spoony bard" and such honestly come out as more goofy, which doesn't necessarily mean wrong. 2) Woooo. A glitch. Ouch. Obviously now the game isn't perfect. Accept if you don't use the glitch it is never a problem. And what other glitches are there? As for the ATB, there is nothing wrong with it. The system works not like previous Final Fantasy's, in that every characters & enemies turn-rate is different and thus providing a different experience than before. The "error" you reference is really not valid considering that it references advances that weren't out at the time. The lack of customization lets the game/story define the characters as opposed to the player. Now this could be debated forever, but to me the story becomes more defined with character specifics being so defined. For example, Rydia as a summoner, Edge as a ninja etc. If I could customize them, then you lose alot. Then Rydia could be a swordmaster... WTF would that be? 3) Graphics: Obviously they were at least on par to other games at time of release (which is fairly close to SNES release). And honestly, it looks great with it's styling and art. Saying its graphics suck, is like saying a Dragon Warrior NES game is imperfect because it looks like shit. 4) Characters coming back, LOL. Seriously, Palom and Porom were stoned which is easily cureable by a mage, like the one from there home town. Cid you don't see die, just that he jumps. And same with Yang going in the room. These two character's deaths are assumed not witnessed. And you totally are grasping for straws with this one. Why would this really matter anyway? Do you want protaginist chacters to truly die? Single plot device? Hell what hasn't ever not been told before? Every story is a rehash or borrow from another story these days. The crystal's story and the idea of going to the moon is something that seemed pretty freaking new and sweet to the FF series. The idea of a Lunar race, the summoned monsters kingdom. The game goes from looking at petty war among nations to earth shattering destruction by a locked away renegade from a long lost Lunar race and it gets there without feeling like a stretch. The whole Cecil being man&lunar blindsides you in a good way, not an unbelievable way. It seems obvious to me that you WANT to not like the game. I don't expect your perspective to change, but don't come in here trashing others opinions on a game just to show you're "smarter" for not liking it. Your purely objective look at the game is entirely cynical, which again, is not the point of this thread. |
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Sounds pretty fucking retarded, sir. People see different things in different games in different ways. I'm sure if I picked to pieces your favorite game you'd be questioning what I'm doing too. |
The issue I personally had with him picking FFIV as his favorite wasn't the game itself, but what version of FFIV he liked best, which happened to be the original SNES FFII. It's kind of strange since later ports fixed up the translation and other glitches, so shouldn't he like the revision better than the original?
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I just wanted to use that smiley
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No but honestly, if you looked hard enough every "perfect" game has a major flaw. Plenty of peeps say Symphony of the Night is the "perfect" Castlevania game. Well what about the dismal dialog between Richter and Dracula? VAMP KILLA: Your words are as empty as your soul! Mankind ill needs a savior such as you! MOFUG'N DRAC: What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough talk... Have at you! But outside of that, and a few other nuisances, the game is practically "perfect". |
Or to beat the Castlevania example, it's just as easy to argue that SOTN is too easy as an example of being imperfect. Just like many people will say CV3 is too difficult or the controls aren't responsive enough as reasons for it being imperfect (two things that bother others a lot more than me apparently, so it definitely gets my own "perfect" nod, whereas I never felt as into SOTN once it got to be too easy).
BTW, am I the only one who actually liked the opening dialogue in SOTN, aside from Richter's delivery? |
Dayvon, to hold a flawed work as being perfect is to ignore all its flaws. Which only a fool would do. The game is flawed. Its story is not well-executed in the least, between the poorly translated script (www.zanyvgquotes.com has a pretty large section for FFIV) and simply weak, uninspiring events.
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What is wrong with them coming back? First of all, YANG DID NOT SURVIVE THAT EXPLOSION. Second of all, CID DID NOT SURVIVE THAT FALL FROM THE OVERWORLD INTO THE UNDERWORLD. Can you understand how completely asinine that is without an explanation being required? Okay, let's assume a phoenix down would do the trick - this still leaves the question of "why is it plausible that someone was just randomly walking around the underworld and found Yang's corpse?" Ditto for Cid. Next, their return to health completely nullifies their sacrifice, because they didn't sacrifice anything. Any emotion I might have felt while grieving for their death is completely soured. Just go ahead and ask one of the people who cried for Aeris how they would feel if the designers allowed the player to use a phoenix down on her afterwards: would you feel relieved, or cheated? Okay. So you say the script stands up on its own, when you don't compare it to the Japanese version? As little sense as that makes, I'd like you to explain the following excerpt from the script. Quote:
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You also read me wrong with my point about the customization - I'm all for having the characters have defined roles. Chrono Trigger did it and that game was a masterpiece. But Chrono Trigger also let you pick at least one character on your team, at all points in the game, even allowing you to pick all 3 members towards the end. The characters all had defined roles and personalities, yet you still had the freedom to approach fights as you wished. The rigidity of FFIV means many of the boss battles have a formulaic wash-rinse-repeat feel to them; e.g. Rydia nukes, Rosa heals, Edge attacks, Cecil guards. I should also clarify that I wasn't citing this as a flaw with the game, rather responding to the people who called it one of the game's strengths earlier in the thread. It isn't. Finally, there's no way you can say the game is graphically on par with contemporary Super NES games. Behold: http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5...6398903eq0.gifhttp://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4...7304nf0ae7.jpg There's such a marginal upgrade in quality, bearing in mind what Square later did with FFVI and Chrono Trigger. It was almost like what would happen if Nintendo launched the Wii with a Zelda running on the Ocarina of Time engine. tl;dr: These are objective problems with the game. You cannot deny them. Is the game good? Yeah, I'll give you that, I had fun with it and there is a reasonably entertaining underlying story. But it's far from perfect, and to call it that is to willingly ignore its very serious flaws. |
And it's a big deal... Why?
It's his opinion, I don't see why you have to get so angry about it. Relax already, we understand you hate the game, we don't need to see ten more pages on it. |
I...fail to see the problem with anything listed above. Screenshot looks nice (it WAS a first-gen SNES game...that should be noted, despite me not seeing anything wrong with the graphics), excerpt works for me, I never used the cheat code, characters coming back were convincing (it wasn't like they instantaneously recovered), I'm fine with the legend referencing Cecil (the elder didn't know about Golbez when he had his revelation) who had both dark and light in him at some point and for all of the gameplay deficiencies listed, it plays better than most of the RPG's I've played and has some really good battles involved (assuming you don't power-level, it's quite a challenge, which is refreshing).
FFIV...Perfect? Maybe...I'm finding less and less to hold against it to suggest otherwise. |
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"Elder: I do not know what it is nor do I know what the legend means... But we Mysidians, from generation to generation, are told to wish for this legend and to believe in the one with the Sacred Light. Now I am sure that you are the one!" You said that the legend makes no sense. Well, if you remember the story as clearly as I do, you'd realize that Elder himself does not know, either. You could not have bitched about the legend if you knew the storyline perfectly. However, you could ask the question, "Why would Elder try to wish for a legend that he doesnt understand?" I might ask you why religion makes any sense anyway. But the fact that Elder & clan are wishing for a person that can save them and to wish for such a person that might match that Legend adds that element of hope to the storyline. To the second argument here: I could really care less what they call the bosses. Quote:
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"Yang: Sylph saved me when I was in trouble." Again, my memory of the script has helped again. (and finding the exact quote on the net for clarity). As for the Cid case, you would expect the Dwarf Castle to pay attention to what is going on around them. Afterall, they are the leading super power of the underground with their own tanks and army. Although there is no proof in the main script, who is to say that some dwarves did not rescue him? Lastly, if some guy was a private in the army and was ordered to run into a building alone that contained 5 suspected terrorists because he was the last chance for victory, knowing the incredible risk, and he came out alive would he not be a hero because he survived or would he only be a hero because he killed the 5 terrorists and died in the process? Quote:
Please look at post #34 on page 2 of this thread to see some of my points about the other versions of FF4. The part in there where I compare the same scene from all three versions of the game shows that I'm comparing emotion and not grammar. So keep that in mind. |
FINAL FANTAAAAAAASY BATTLE
LOOK AT THE GRAPHICS IN THE ATARI 2600 VERSION, SQUARE'S NOT PUSHING THE 2600 AT ALL! http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13.../klax/ff13.png |
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Also, lollin' @ "for all the gameplay deficiencies listed..." and then two lines later "Perfect? Maybe." |
Any disagreements with my post there, Ranger?
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And remember: It's easy to nitpick, but it's hard to criticize. |
Perfect is a very strong word... I'm not sure I can think of any games that have absolutely no flaws at all but I'll list a few that come pretty damn close.
Zelda: LttP Super Metroid FFVI Chrono Trigger Yoshi's Island |
Ooh, picking apart SOTN is one of my favorite things to do. Apart from the poor voice acting, the inverted castle is a big and empty rehash of the normal castle, with sparsely placed enemies and only a few tracks being played ad nauseum. The definition of lazy game design. Also, the transformations are a joke. You have one trivial use for an otherwise worthless wolf form, a handful for the bat form, and a couple for the mist form. The RPG elements are similarly tacked on, with a lot of worthless items floating about. Finally, the game tries to implement Super Metroid elements, but it fails at creating the same solidarity between exploration and level design. It's full of big and generally empty corridors where aside from killing an enemy or two you're left with nice backgrounds and little else. All the while the game loses the strengths of old school Castlevania (the difficulty, tight level design, and consistent platforming elements), especially Castlevania III, which I consider to be the best game in the series. So in a lot of ways, SOTN is a jack of all trades and master of none. Yet thanks to the great controls and stellar presentation outside of the voice acting, it manages to be a good game with an addictive quality to it. Just not "the best 2D sidescroller ever".
As for FFIV, I think the game is generally well-designed, but I don't know how anyone can defend the silly drama. Truly, the series didn't get that right until FFVI. (FFV is exempt from such criticism for the simple reason that it takes itself less seriously, and yes, I like FFV a bit more than FFIV, though I consider both to be among the better Final Fantasy games) Outside of Tellah, the willing suicides of FFIV don't make sense and any dramatic value is negated when you find them miraculously alive (or you don't, in which case the Babil help sequence is even more hokey). You could swear that they would simply kill characters off just to make room in the party for an upcoming member. Honestly, what inspired Yang to suddenly choose suicide for saving the party when he has a wife and country to consider? I never much bought the Cecil/Kain relationship either. I can't believe that Cecil would foolishly keep taking Kain back in after being betrayed not once, but twice. It was obvious that Kain was jealous of Cecil and Rosa's relationship and yet Cecil turns a blind eye to that. Kain is like the earliest form of the Square angsty villain and anti-hero, which wouldn't be handled right until Magus. And speaking of Rosa, that woman had the personality of a roof shingle. If not for being Cecil's girl, she'd contribute nothing to the story. That's why everyone likes Rydia whereas Rosa is just there. Still, despite these criticisms, I think FFIV is a good game with an excellent soundtrack. But the story could stand some scrutiny for the crazy suicides in particular, even though it has a some moments of brilliance like when Cecil faces himself on Mt. Ordeals, which by itself makes the game worthwhile. |
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Just because Blank was petrified in FF9 does not mean he is completely unrecoverable forever. The only certain death was Tellah because he died before our eyes. Yang's situation was explained when he said: Yang: Sylph saved me when I was in trouble. The twins' situation was explained when they said: Porom: Our Elder removed our petrification. And about what you said about Yang: He chose to save the day. Not chose blind death. Further, read: ---------------------------- Dr. Lugae: Ha ha ha! This Tower of Bab-il connects the ground and underground. Rubicant has already moved all the crystals to the upper world! And I shall annihilate the dwarves with my Super Cannon! Ha-hah-hah! Rydia: Dwarves are in danger! Yang: We must stop the Super Cannon! Kain: We must destroy it! Cecil: Yang! Rosa: What are you doing? Yang: I'll take care of this! Go on, escape! ---------------------------- Not only did you say he chose suicide, but you said "for saving the party". That's wrong. He meant to save the entire castle of dwarves..... which was the whole point of the super cannon being built. Next, what you said about the relationship between Cecil & Kain: ---------------------------- Kain: Cecil! What have I done? Cecil: Not your fault. You've been hypnotized. Valvalis: Kain, you betrayed us! Kain: I did not betray but came to my senses! ---------------------------- I mean... do you understand FF4 at all? Do you understand that Kain was taken over because he is a dark soul? Do you understand that Kain was on Mt. Ordeals during the ending sequences (with his helmet off) because he started a quest to rid of that dark side and to find out who he is? Kain does not trade sides by his own will. With a clear mind, he is fully on Cecil's side. And what do you mean Kain was jealous of Cecil & Rosa? Lastly, what you said about Rosa, I agree that she was not at all the best character of characters, but her role was needed because she was kidnapped. It added more drama to the story. And, does this not at least add some characterization to her? --- ---------------------------- Cecil: Rosa and Rydia will get off here. The rest of us will go to the moon. It's too risky. There is no guarantee of safe return this time. Rosa: Cecil! Rydia: What!? Cecil: Come on. Get off the Big Whale. (They head to the moon. Rosa and Rydia have been hiding the entire journey. They pop out as Cecil is about to disembark.) Cecil: Get out of my way. Rosa: No! I won't unless you take me with you. Cecil: Don't be silly. Rosa: I don't care how dangerous it will be! I don't care as long as I can be with you! Cecil: Rosa... Kain: Take her, Cecil, Edge: Come on, man! Cecil: Okay, Rosa... Whatever happens... I'll protect you! |
Read close enough? Everyone was going to die and Yang volunteers to take the brunt of the explosion while everyone else leaves and sad music plays. Of course it was going to be suicide. Same with Cid's suicide dive to blow a hole for the party to escape back into the upper world. He knew he wasn't coming back when he did it. Everybody thought those guys were dead for sure, which is why they're so surprised when they find them alive. Blank being petrified is different. He wasn't trying to sacrifice himself and being petrified isn't quite the same as getting killed. Plenty of times in RPGs we've had to revive petrified villagers, yes? And since you like quoting the script so much:
Cecil: Yang! Rosa: What are you doing!? Yang: Leave this to me! Go! Rydia: No! Cecil: It's gonna blow! Yang: GO! Yang forces Cecil's group out of the Super Cannon room. Cecil: Yang!! Yang: Cecil, everyone, I thank you. Kain: Open the door! Rydia: Yang! Rosa: Please don't do this! Yang: Tell my wife... ...I will always be with her. Cecil: Yang!!!" As for Kain being jealous of Rosa and Cecil, the game makes it obvious that he likes Rosa. That's why Kain has a "dark soul". Play the game again and watch Kain's reactions at certain points. Rosa notices his feelings at one point or another but Cecil pays them no mind. Kain is able to be controlled because he resents Cecil deep down. He shouldn't be a hero. A character with his issues wouldn't be a hero in any future FF game. They'd be a rival, like Seifer. Cecil should've seen this after being betrayed twice and told Kain to take a hike rather than put his entire group in jeopardy time and time again. Now maybe after the ending when Kain goes to try and find himself, then he could be a real hero, but only after ridding himself of his dark feelings. Here: Rosa: Kain!? Cecil: He's okay now. Tellah's Meteo broke Golbez's spell. Kain: But I was still aware. Yet... Rosa...I wanted to keep you close at any cost! Rosa: Kain... Kain: ... Cecil: ... And yes, I remember the part where they're going to take off to the moon and Cecil insists that they stay behind. It's so sudden and unexpected that he almost comes off as male chauvinist. Considering that Rydia saved them all before, you'd think that he'd see them as equals. Yes, he didn't want them harmed, but the way he did it definitely caught me by surprise. It wasn't consistent with his personality up to that point and he did it with the bluntness of a sledgehammer. Anyways, that doesn't add anything to Rosa's character. And just for further proof that Kain wasn't hero material: Kain: So this is the king's wish...to annihilate every summoner in this village. ...I'm afraid we have to take care of her, too. Cecil: WHAT!? Kain: I know, but it's the king's orders. Cecil: Kain! She's just a child! Kain: You intend to defy the king? Cecil: I refuse to continue this slaughter in the king's name! Kain: Damn... I was afraid you'd say that. Well, I can't kill you, so I might as well join you. --- Kain: Opposing the mightiest kingdom in the land... We'll need allies to survive. We have to rescue Rosa somehow, too. Cecil: Thanks, Kain. Kain: Save it. I'm not doing it for you. |
I see you have used a little different translation... the GBA one I believe?
I analyze FF4 personalities and storyline a little different in each of the versions. To reply to the first point about Yang: He didn't volunteer to purposely take the brunt of an explosion. He knew it was dangerous and he volunteered to destroy the super cannon. So, although you may think death is always a guaranteed thing in a room that is on fire, the fact is, there was not enough storyline written to explain what happened in the room. There was also not enough storyline to explain what happened to Cid after he fell. The main focus of the game stayed on Cecil. It still remains my favorite video game storyline of all time, even if I hereby concede those few lacks of explanation. But that is all I concede. That there was not enough information in a few parts of the game. But have you ever seen a movie or show in your life that explains every last comment and goes off on wild tangents to make sure to fill every back story possible? No. FF4 should have done a little more on those points that I concede. I will not agree that the actions of characters meant guaranteed death. There is minimal information to conclude their exact reasons for survival. So that means it is left to my imagination to figure why Yang survived. Perhaps Sylph was at the right place and time to save him. For Cid, perhaps the dwarves witnessed the situation and got to him in time. As to this: "Kain: But I was still aware. Yet... Rosa...I wanted to keep you close at any cost!" I'm not 100% sure that he is attracted to Rosa because he said that. I have analyzed the comment "close" meaning "close by because deep down I didn't want you to be hurt". But I definitely know what you mean by your comment "watch Kain's reactions at certain points.".... sometimes he looks down at the ground during emotional scenes between Cecil and Rosa. But I really don't know what to say about it. It's definitely like watching a movie. FF4 is absolutely brilliant in how they do these things all the time. Also, you said "He shouldn't be a hero." I never said Kain should be a hero. He wasn't one of the people that I thought should be one. Perhaps he helped to redeem himself by helping to defeat the primary enemy of the game. Also, read: "Kain: His majesty wanted to wipe out the Callers of this village and used us to do it." ...and... Cecil: Forget it! Never again will I follow such an order! Kain: Well, Cecil. I knew you'd say so. I won't let you do it alone. We are arguing over two completely different versions of a storyline where they say different things during the same scene. This is why I like the FF2 USA best. I can forgive some bad grammar and at the same time have something much better than other versions. Lastly, to the comments about Rosa & Rydia being told to stay behind: There is a difference between the danger they faced on Earth compared to the danger from the moon (in their minds). It could be a one way trip. Cecil loves Rosa enough that he would not want harm to come to her. And Rydia is obviously still young. "Rosa: I don't care how dangerous it will be! I don't care as long as I can be with you!" This line develops Rosa's character after Rydia and her hide during the trip. So Rosa is not like a roof shingle. |
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How can you call the script of a game in which every other sentence ends with an exclamation point perfect? (Oh I know what you're going to say. THE GAME IS DRIPPING WITH EMOTION THAT'S WHY THERE'S SO MANY EXCLAMATION POINTS.) What about a script that leaves out words that are sorely lacking for grammar's sake, and uses words that don't in any way fit in? Quote:
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Chrono Trigger for the million reasons mentioned before.
Metal Slug 1. No game has come close to the level of professionality in the level design, and the whole overall presentation of this game. Every area has an "optimal" route, every challenge you can face without getting scratched - once you figured them out. The graphics are gorgeous and the riffs in the music match the military theme and the pace of the game. The game is not plagued by the billion different vehicles and alternate routes the sequels leaned on. Every boss has a strict pattern and not randomized attacks which can be often impossible to avoid. It's a fast, 20 minute long adrenaline pumper, and once you learn the tricks and traps, its so much satisfying to beat a whole army with just one man. Ikaruga. Ikaruga is something where professional level design cannot apply (because otherwise it would surpass the aformentioned Metal Slug). Ikaruga is, ladies and gentleman, not a video game. Ikaruga is a form of art. Ikaruga uses the simplest tricks to achieve its high value, and is a prime example on why the small things matter. It features the tinyest gameplay twist that I ever witnessed (the Polarity System), and it is combined with such an artistic, almost mathematical design (the combo system) that turns simple brainless shooting into a taxing mindgame. It relies on quick thinking like nothing before and nothing after, and without it you will see Ikaruga as a huge, mindless chaos. But there is an order in this chaos, and what an order it is: underneath the chaos, every level is logically, mechanically flawless. The level design is not just in order, it is plain perfect. Ikaruga is extremely minimal, and focuses on gameplay. It focuses on gameplay so extremely much that you will find satisfaction just by watching superplay movies of the game. Thus, the game itself is really an artistic tool. Ikaruga is so perfect that it exceeded the videogame genre itself. Double Post: Quote:
Yoshi's Island, also known as Super Mario World 2, has surpassed SMW in every possible way: more levels, more complexity, more diversity, better graphics & sound, and it's so much more fun. |
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You've already proved FFIV isn't perfect to yourself. If you're going to "prove" FFIV isn't perfect to someone else, please do it in a convincing manner...That's a lot harder to do than nitpicking or "whining" about it. |
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I'm not nitpicking here. FFIV, and by extension all of Final Fantasy, is based on story. I'd be nitpicking if there was one or two bad lines in the game. The script is caked in out-of-character deliveries, grammar mistakes, and idiomatic problems. You say it doesn't preclude your enjoyment of the game? Well earlier today I loaded up an old save file of mine from FFIV just out of boredom, and found this gem: http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1...1000000dc4.jpg Swing your arms, from side to side - come on it's time to go, do the Meteo! Honestly, can you tell me someone should be able to read that, and not find it humorous? Can you also tell me humor was the intended effect there? In the closing moments of the game?? If not, your "omg nitpicking" point is crushed. Quote:
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I see no problem with it...In the heat of battle, if someone had to say something really fast (no more than a sentence), I would expect to hear "Do the Meteo now!" (followed by "I'm ready!" from someone if that were the situation.
Regarding the script, I will agree that there are several spots in the original translation that are iffy, BUT (and be sure to include these next several statements if you choose to quote me) compared to plenty of RPG scripts that are completely in character and grammatically perfect, I prefer what FFIV has to offer because it's quick and to the point, not long-winded like so many recent RPG's are. Wild Arms 3 for example has a script that is close to being perfect, but it's so freaking boring to read (IMO, for any WA3 fans that happen to see this) and filled with so much useless garbage, it really doesn't matter if every grammatical structure is perfect, everything is totally in character and every "i" is dotted. It's like...Yeah, it's "perfect", but who cares? For all of the grammatical deficiencies in FFIV's first translation (and the PS1 version fixes much of them up anyway...Not sure about the GBA one), it does nothing to hinder my own enjoyment of the game. The storyline and characters manage to stand out where so many that are more technically sound don't, so really, that's where it ends up sounding like simple nitpicking to me. (BTW, I tend to weigh gameplay and story equally in RPG's, including FF's...I don't think it has the most sophisticated battle engine around, but it somehow manages to provide some of the best boss fights I've seen in an RPG.) |
I made my edit to my previous post. Read it :) Had to finish typing more after dinner. It's done now. This post will be to reply to Ranger....
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Also, when I speak of a perfect game, I want it to be flawless in these GENERAL areas: The fun I get from gameplay. The intensity I get from storylines. Well-fit music for the scene or place. Not: "Oh no! A misplaced pixel! Wrong grammar usage on a couple words!" If you have read my previous post, you would see what they are trying to do to Kain's character compared to what is was in my favorite script. The remade scripts change far too much. I don't care if their sentences are structured well. I'm looking for an accurate-to-the-storyline script. "Kain: Damn... I was afraid you'd say that. Well, I can't kill you, so I might as well join you." <-- that is the most retarded thing I've ever read. I would rather have this be said (similar to the SNES USA version, but I purposely made it grammatically worse to get my point across): "Kain: Well Cecil, I knew youd say so. I wont let you do it alone." Further: "Cecil: We do not understand the meaning of taking crystals away from honest people. King: Disobeying me? Cecil: No, I don't. King: We do know of your discontent, Cecil. If you cannot trust me, I can no longer place the Red Wings in your command. You are dismissed from your post!" Because I obviously love FF4 so much, I envisioned this as Cecil being interrupted by the King after he said "I don't." They should have added more periods to make it: "I don't..." So obviously when we watch movies, shows and video games we pretend the moment is real. So I had no choice but to pretend that it was an interruption because it's the only logical explanation. PLEASE do not reply to this paragraph with 80 more grammar mistakes. Most of them are not important to me. Next: About your Star Wars comment... What about when somebody is mentioned in Star Wars like a character that has not been seen. The movie will not take 100 hours to explain every moment of every sentence of every line or else you'd have a boring movie. But this argument is done because I already admitted that FF4 should have done a little more to explain a few side things. But the main plot & characterization is still perfect. The best I've seen in a game. As to your most recent post with the Zemus screenshot in it: All I can say to try to wrap it up is that you are not willing to forgive anything that FF4 does wrong. You also do not come close to liking FF4 in general compared to some of us here. So why even talk about this game at all? You don't see me going over any single one of the 1000 games I find crappy. Perhaps you "called bullshit on me" in your first post because you were astounded by my pick of which version of FF4 was the best? Well, it is as simple as: Two of them botch some of the characters & emotion of the game to me and the other retains it. It all comes down to my preference. What does it matter to anyone else but me? Goldfish: Fully agreed with your post above this one. |
Just to be clear: I'm not picking one side over another, I just think "perfect" is much more abstract and personal than finding a handful of things to dwell over that aren't as good as they could be. This thread becomes silly then, since nearly every pick here, I could find various reasons why certain games aren't "perfect", but really don't care to (no, not even the person who said Chrono Cross).
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Let's let this FFIV discussion die because it's going nowhere, it's not productive, and it is counter-productive to the point of this thread, which incidentally is NOT a "favorites" thread. The point is games that you see as without flaw. It is opinionated, and everyone from Burning Ranger to Borg has to live with that. BR thinks FFIV shouldn't be listed, Borg (and I) think it does. End of discussion, because none is needed. |
I gave it some thought, and I'm ready to nominate a third game in my list of all-time "perfect" titles.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...t-evil-4-2.jpg This was one of a few select cases where the extra development and delays actually helped the final product. I remember reading an early Play magazine review that claimed that this game enjoyed the ideas and efforts of every single person that worked on it. It's true. There are so many scenarios, action bits, enemies, and traps that you keep wondering if you've reached the climax of the story, but it turns out that you aren't even 1/4 done. For an action game, the length is very long, and there isn't a single dull moment. In fact, I'll go so far as to use this game as the base for what I want to see in nearly every future next generation game; the aggresive enemies. These aren't slow moving zombies that want to take a few bites out of you, these are angry, pissed off locals that want you dead in the messiest way possible. They chase you in large numbers, they strategize, they scream spanish expletives, and they use whatever they can get their hands on to carve you into chunks. And that's why this game has a different kind of fear that you don't see in Silent Hill; it's the fear of tension, the fear of an entire village waging war against one person, you. I want to see this kind of adrenaline rush in all future games. Resident Evil 4 didn't just evolve "Survival Horror", it evolved the sheer realism and action in video games, period. If I could list just one nagging criticism, it's the lack of being able to cycle through your weapons in realtime. If they fix that one little detail, then RE5 will be even better by default. |
Sonic & Knuckles w/ Sonic 3, Toejam and Earl, the original Rayman for PSX (the 3d ones were horrible when being compared to it), and all the King's Quest games except for King's Quest III(Seriously, did they expect you just to fucking GUESS all those like, 15 line spells?).
I couldn't really tell you exactly why, these are just games I've played time and time again that never seem to get old or boring. And I guess that's why i consider them perfect. |
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I'd like to cast a vote for Ikaruga.
There's only 5 levels... but they are designed so amazingly well that you could spend your entire life just playing them over and over and trying to improve your performance, and it would not be a life wasted. Every enemy ship is immaculately placed and programmed... every boss battle meticulously balanced. There's so many "right" ways to handle most every situation in the game. It is a joy to play for both those who see it as a mindless shooter, and those who attempt to perfect themselves. I doubt any other game has ever come this close to flawlessness. |
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But otherwise, Zone of the Enders the 2nd runner. It was AWESOME! Aumaan gate was like the most amazing 15 minutes of my entire video gaming life! Like the sheer terror that befell me when i watched that first wave of raptors fly at me. (Than i figured out they weren't taht hard to kill....) And the desperation you felt as you tried to fly all over the place to try to save your buddies, and as they fell right in front of your face it was like NO!!!!!! If only i was a little bit faster, if only i could have killed that raptor a little bit faster.... The rest of the game was amazing too, but Aumaan gate... Aumaan gate brings back memories. |
my choice
Dragon Quest V (Original SNES) Chrono Trigger (Original SNES) Seiken Desnsetsu 3 (SNES) Gensou Suikoden 2 (PS) It's kinda sad some games could be considered bad (err less of quality) because of the translation. It's like having japanese food from a non-japanese place. Or calling taco bell mexican food. It's just not right for me. |
hmm a game that i consider to be perfect eh hmm 2 games i would say are perfect and don't need to be improved what so ever
Final Fantasy 7 & Final Fantasy X each are good with graphics and have a great storyline and it's also rather enjoyable by people of all ages and i don't think either one of those 2 games could be improved any better :D well that's all i gotta say about the words "Perfect" but my final words are there is no such thing as perfect nothing is perfect |
1# Xenogears - for characters, storyline, tears...
2# Street Fighter 3 - 3rd Strike - when it was only on arcade i was playing it, when it was on DC i was also playing it, i've go it on PS2 and... yup still playing:) (what it means? yeah im stupid :> ) 3# Tenchu series... - cause Japan is home of my soul... :] 4# Front Mission series :) - i want to be a wanzer :P |
Puzzle games which I consider (near) perfect:
Wario's Woods (SNES), Bust-A-Move 2 (N64 say) and Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo (played this on Sat) - I personally find it hard to pick a fault with these, except my brother kicks my ass on all three :( There's nothing I would change about Front Mission 3 and Zelda: OoT either. |
Warioland 4. Fuck everything else with a chainsaw. This is the apotheosis of platformers, and games in general, for that matter.
Jewels and points and coins and treasures and puzzle-solving and brute strength and flashing enemies on my favorite mushy-buttoned handheld = ultimate. Oh Panel de Pon is kawaii too :3: |
I would say Suikoden 2, but they have some translation errors. But other than that it's perfection to me.
Honorable mention: Spider-Man 2 Kotor (Which I haven't finished just yet.) I would like to say Pokemon Emerald, but the Battle Frontier is fucking ridiculous. |
LOOM - I loved this game to death on the Amiga.
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Zelda: A Link To The Past (SNES) - Many Zelda games have come and gone since this gem came out, but none have been able to come close to the quality of it.
Honourable mentions go out to :- Super Metroid (SNES) Super Mario World (SNES) Bubble Bobble (ZX Spectrum +2) |
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