2007 MLB Discussion Thread
 

Well, it's been a while since the Cardinals won the World Series, so I figured it was about time to make the next season's thread. So. What do you think is going to happen this season? Any surprise contenders? We all know the Pirates won't be in contention, but there's still hope for others.

So yeah. Discuss.

Um.

Half the teams are going to go after pitching - Yankees and Red Sox being on top of that.

I'm proud my Tigers got to where they did last year. I'd love to see just how much better all the youngsters on the team get with the experience of the playoffs behind them. But with the division they're in, it could be hard to make the playoffs again even if they remain really good, as the White Sox showed last season.

Boy, you couldn't even wait for the start of free agent signings Capo? You're a fucking Pirates fan, the last thing you should want is the baseball season to come any sooner so you can wallow in pity about your pathetic Buckos. Why don't you just stick with hockey and wait for the Penguins' other shoe to drop (which we both know it will) before you can bring out the frowny face.

Playing along, I'm not very excited for the Red Sox right now. There's a lot of work to be done.

I mean, the other thread died. May as well start up the next one to get a bit of discussion going.

Fear the Orioles...We are the Detroit Tigers of 2007. We just need some pitchers...And two good hitters...And find a way to restore team/fan moral...And we're good to go!

The Boston Red Sox reportedly have the highest bid sent to the Seibu Lions in order to negotiate with Daisuke Matsuzaka.

Now I'm excited. But the Sox are reportedly bidding $35-40M to just win the rights to negotiate a contract with him. They would still have to sign him after that.

If the Red Sox get him, what's their lineup going to look like?

Matsuzaka, Beckett, Shilling, Wakefield and possibly Papelbon, right?

I mean, we have the pitchers, we just need Leo Mazzone to make them good. Bedard, Cabrera, Loewen, and Penn are all very talented young pitchers and with the right tutelage the Orioles could have a dominating rotation. The Oriole's biggest problems last year were their complete lack of any bullpen (we're fine as long as our starters can get us all the way to Chris Ray) and inability to hit it out of the ballpark. As usual the Orioles are full of potential that they will not come close to living up to in the regular season.

Assuming Schilling doesn't retire and Beckett isn't shipped back to the National League for prospects and ca$h, that's probably an accurate rotation. I'm sure Matt Clement misses being in the rotation.

I keep having this discussion with my dad all the time...What our guys need is a Kenny Rogers that can come in and stabilize things. I think Benson is keeping the spot warm for Penn at the moment, but he had a solid year. Adding a true vetern ace/#2 to the staff would make everyone better.

I do like our line-up: We won't do any better than Roberts, Mora, Tejada and Hernandez at their positions. Markakis will be in right field as long as he wants to be. Patterson probably has a year to show what he can do, but he's a five-tool player who lacks discipline. That also leaves Gibbons for 1B, DH or one of the corner outfield spots. That gives us two spots to add great hitters at power positions.

I think if the Orioles overspend for an ace and the two hitters ($45 million, give or take), we'll add enough to finish above .500, if not contend. Honestly, the Yankees and Boston are both due for a fall. As is, I like Toronto to take the division next year...

But we'll see...The off-season is still young. Crazier shit has happened in the past.

Also: Fuck JD Drew. That guy pisses me off...He's a good player, but that's twice he's screwed teams over about his bloody contract. Now he'll have batteries thrown at him in both Philadelphia AND LA. I understand free agents are basically just hired goons, but that description fits him far better than most. I hope he's one of the players the Orioles don't acquire.

And $30 million just to discuss signing the Japanese guy...I certainly hope we have the next Hideki Irabu on our hands. Stories about how the Red Sox or Yankees blew $45 million to get a guy who can't cut it in the big leagues are something I can read all year and not get tired of.

Matsuzaka was MVP of the World Baseball Classic, which is probably where all his hype stems from. 3-0 with a 1.38 ERA is pretty good.


Anyways, Gary Sheffield was trade to Detroit for three pitching prospects. Most people figured this would happen after the Yanks trade for Abreu.

Article here.

Bad trade for the Tigers. They don't need Sheffield in their clubhouse.

Hmm... Tigers gave up some good pitching prospects, but they're completely overloaded with those as it is. It was a given some good young arms would be traded away this offseason. And the Tigers got another good bat in their lineup. It seems to be a good trade for both teams, at least for now. I don't know how injury-prone Sheffield is, or what is attitude is, though. But Leyland and Dombrowski both seem to like him, so I guess he's okay in that regard.

Nee: Sheffield is a douchebag. Enjoy that albatross!

I was going to post this also.

Bad move, Detroit.

Yankees are in the mood to give this offseason, trading Jaret Wright to the Orioles for Chris Britton. The Yankees pitching consists of Chien-Ming Wang, a Randy Johnson coming from back surgery, and a Carl Pavano who had so many injuries it's way past ridiculous.

Mike Mussina is probably going to come back as they need him, but the Yankees are definitely looking for pitching throughout the off-season.

Article Here.

Cardinals are looking to be weaker than this year unless they get their balls to go for pitching. Zito is pretty much gone and Schmidt is almost out of the picture.

Otherwise we're banking on young talent. :\

Peter Gammons (back in action, as he should be) told his pals at ESPN that the Boston Red Sox have indeed put in the high bid for Daisuke Mastuzaka with a $42M bid.

That's a lot of coin for one man. He had better be good.

Aw man, I don't want a jackass on the Tigers. I don't like rooting for guys who are jerks.

$51.1M is crazy just to negotiate with a guy. He better win 30 games and pitch 300 Ks each year or he won't be worth it. Yes I'm serious. This is the kind of move that kills a team's economy, and the Red Sox don't have enough seats to sell their expensive-ass tickets for so they'll have to jack the damn prices up even more.

In other news, the new Diamondbacks attire looks good.

Ten to one odds he gets injured before the All Star break.

Considering he's rumored to have pitched in more strenuous situations, I'd only take that bet as an irony bet.

Well, it certainly would be some kind of poetic justice after these ridiculous bargaining prices.

Baseball really needs a salary cap. It's just disgusting.

I'll play devil's advocate and give you two words: European football.

I remember reading that he pitched a 250 pitch game or something - which I still find hard to believe, but even so that would be horrid on an arm and shoulder.


And I like the new D-Backs uniform (as well as their color-swapped logo). The red from the pale blue makes it seem better in my mind...

And it even matches the Arizona Cardinals in terms of general color (though hopefully they won't do as bad once the season starts).

Here's where I get really blown away by the whole Matsuzaka situation:

So, say the Sox sign him to a $60M/5yr deal, or $12M/yr, which is about what some analysts are suggesting they'll pay him (he is in his prime, anyway). Considering the Sox just chipped in $51M (we'll say it's $50M for math simplification), that means the Sox will really be paying $101M for a 5-year deal, or about $20M/yr for one guy. That's more than Manny gets paid (which I'm cool with; if Daisuke has any bit the work ethic of Ichiro that alone may pay for itself), and that's less than A-Rod gets and the same as Jeter and Giambi. Anyway, we'll see what happens.

Doesn't A-Rod only (only!) make around $13 million this year?

If you break it down then probably, but over the span of the deal.

Well Frank Thomas was picked up by the Blue Jays to be their DH - good pick up in my mind, they needed another big back to complement Vernon Wells.

Athletics might sign Barry Bonds as they're in need of a DH (since Thomas is now with the Jays) - I'm not so sure about this one.

Double Post:
Cubs signed Alfonso Soriano to an 8 year, 136 million dollar contract.

Article here.


Cubs are looking for a playoff berth this year as they resigned both Aramis Ramirez and Kerry Wood, while adding Mark DeRosa from the Rangers. Adding Soriano will help lots as he had an outstanding season last year.

Haha eat shit Jeter.

Also the 'stros got el Caballo for 100 mil. Who knows maybe the astros can be a good team for one whole season as opposed to having a good last two weeks and making the playoffs by the skin of their teeth.

Any word from V-dub?
 

I've been busy recently, so I haven't been up to date with the latest trades, rumours and whatnot. I know about the Frank Thomas deal to the Jays, but has there been any word about Vernon Wells returning? Has he signed with another team? Or is a deal still in the making?

Uh...Vernon Wells isn't a free agent according to Yahoo. However:


What I'm interested in is all the stuff surrounding Manny, and the possibility of a three team deal.

Some of the bigger deals have been Carlos Lee to the Astros for 6 years and 100 mil, The Cardinals resigned Carpenter for 50mil or somethin near that, and soriano went to the Cubs for like 136 mil.

Apparently, the Pirates are now going after the highly coveted Trot Nixon. If we do manage to sign him, I can only see this turning out to be another "Jeremy Burnitz" kind of deal. Which, as you should know, is not what the Pirates need.

Fortunately, the Pirates also are going after Adam LaRoche, a young 1B who can hit for power. Hopefully we manage to get LaRoche, and maybe some more pitching talent, this off-season, while staying away from over-the-hill, overpriced players (like motherfucking Trot Nixon).

Hey, Trot's not over-the-hill. :p

The Sox got two of the guys they wanted (JD Drew and Julio Lugo from Red Sox West a.k.a. the Dodgers...hey Grady and Nomar!) and couldn't get rid of the one they don't. Ought to be another fun-filled first half of Manny being Manny!

A lot of pitcher-related transactions recently:

Lilly to the Cubs, Schmidt to the Dodgers, Garcia traded to the Phillies, Maddux to the Padres, and Padilla resigned by the Rangers.

Not too many left, I don't think - Yankees and Red Soxs have their Japanese pitchers they need to get deals done with, Zito is still hanging around, and Pettite is looking to come back for the 2007 season.

Bonds is a Giant again.

10 years ago, people were in an uproar at Albert Belle getting $55 million over 5 years. Today, when one of the most below-average starting pitchers on the market gets that same exact deal...It's just sad. I know KC has trouble attracting any talent worth a damn, but come on: Gil Meche isn't worth a damn. Or at least he's not an $11 million per year player.

I don't want to see what Zito goes for now...

Meche's 11 Million per year is ridiculous.


This is actually really bad for the Red Sox. They're trying to get a deal done with Matsuzaka, with Matsuzaka's agent looking around 15 million per year and the Red Soxs hoping for around 7-8 million per year (this was news from a while ago).

With Meche, who isn't worth 55 million over 5 years, getting as much money as he is, Matsuzaka's agent (Scott Boras, I believe) will be looking to reap in the dough. Matsuzaka WAS the MVP of the WBC, while also being 17-5 with a 2.13 ERA and 200 SOs. Meche was what, 11-8 with an ERA over 4.

Yes, it is the Majors Leagues versus the Japanese league, but nevertheless 17-5 with a 2.13 ERA is outstanding.

They'll (Red Sox and Matsu) get it done.

Yeah, that is rediculous that Gil Meche can get that kind of money, but with really only one big pitcher (Zito) left in the market, mediocre pitchers are going to get more money. Especially from a team like the Royals, who probably don't have a pitcher better than Meche. And haven't had one for the past 5 years.

Looks like the Sox are going to strike out on Daisuke.

That reallly sucks for the Sox in more than one way.

On the other side, Yankees signed Andy Pettite, which should excite Yankees fans (like me).

Another aging past his prime pitcher getting paid too much money for the Yankees. Keep up the good work you jackasses.

Bah. I like Pettite...


Anyway, Red Sox are doing a final push toward Matsuzaka. Though I finally found out how much more the Red Sox spent than the Yankees. $51 million to the Yankees $36 million. Jesus.

Either way though, I think Matsuzaka will sign. He wants to play in the leagues, Boras just wants more commission, that's all.



Oh, and Gagne was signed by the Rangers. If I remember right, the Rangers had reliever issues. Though Gagne has had shoulder/arm issues, so we'll see where this goes.

How much longer do you think Bonds will play? He's what? Forty something? He can hardly jump or run anymore, let alone hit home runs. Is he just going to stay in until he gets the home run record?

I think that Bonds will play until he beats the record. I hope he'll choose to step down before that happens, but I know he won't.

Probably. Unless he gets injured or his body shuts down (he weakens and can't hit homeruns). Supposedly this should be the last season he plays. He's suppose to get the home run record this year, barring injury. Either of which would probably end his career, since the satisfaction of getting the record would be enough or getting injured once again would stop him from getting on the field again.

I'm wondering what Barry's motivation is here. As Fiddlegoof mentioned, the man barely has any defensive capability left, and he probably has to condition himself near to death to keep himself in good enough condition to run the bases. He should've gone to the American League to DH (I can't imagine him having a personal vendetta against the DH, like it's an impure baseball thing...they have him do it in interleague games), playing for Oakland and just get his 22 homeruns that way.

In other news, Interleague turns 10 this year. Success or failure? For me it's a success, but what I'd like is for some teams in different leagues to play each other each year no matter what (Boston v. Mets or Braves or Marlins thanks Theo) instead of the rotating divisional schedule they have now and since 2001 (AL East vs. NL West this year? FAGS).

The Cardinals play the Tigers this season, by a stroke of luck, but moving to the West. Unfortunately some teams are stuck with the same matchup year after year (Cardinals and Royals, St. Louis Missouri and Kansas City Missouri) which really aren't "highlights."

Red Sox apparently pull a Astros/Clemens "lol j/k" with Matsuzaka.

Boras had the Red Sox on his doorstep, meaning that he probably getting a better deal for Matsuzaka than Boston would like to give, but not as much as the 12 million per year he's expecting.

They're "close," apparently, but I'm betting Matsuzaka gets around $10-11 million per year.



They could have gone for Barry Zito...

The last thing they need in Fenway is a lefty.

So, the Blue Jays throw a 7-year/$126M contract at Vernon Wells, and he's hesitant. It would have been the 6th heaviest contract of all-time.

What a world.

Did he accept it? I haven't heard yet. What about Lilly?

He hasn't done anything with it yet.

And if you mean Ted Lilly, he signed with the Cubs a while ago.

No surprise: Daisuke Matsuzaka is a member of the Boston Red Sox. Spring training is going to be interesting.

Here's Dan Shaughnessy's letter to DaiMat:

It looks like Wells has accepted the 7-year/$126M contract to play for the Jays.

About Lilly, were the terms of his contract released before? TSN says today that it is 4-year/$40M. I find it odd that it'd be running across the ticker today, so I assumed that the terms of the contract had not been released as of yet.

I think it was finalized today. Like Lilly accepted it a while ago, but I assume things like a physical and such need to be done before everything is finalized.

Either way, $10M for Ted Lilly?

That's pretty pricy. I watched the guy all year long, and I'd be way happier with an $11M Gil Meche than a $10M Ted Lilly. The guy is going to bomb in Chicago this year.

What about that japanese pitcher that the Yankees recently acquired? Or was it the Red Sox? I forget.

I also forget his name, so i'm not being much help here, but was he some kind of baseball god over in Japan for them to be making such a big deal about him here? I watched a bit of it on t.v., but i haven't been watching for a while, so i didn't know who he was, and why he's so special.

Red Sox. They signed Daisuke Matsuzaka. Basically, he's a supposed Japanese baseball prodigy who has led teams he's been on to championships. He led his High School team, his Japanese team, and then the Japanese national team in the World Baseball Classic to championships. He was MVP of the WBC as well.

He's rumored to throw the "gyroball," which he already said he can't. If you've seen any Japanese baseball anime, you'd know what it is (well what it's suppose to do).


Wiki says his stats for the Seibu Lions (since 1999) are:

108 Wins, 60 Losses; 1402.2 innings pitched; 1355 Ks; an ERA of 2.95


Not too bad.

Wow..not to shabby. Thanks for the stats. I'm sure he'll do very well in the American League.

Well, the Yanks sign Igawa to a 5 years/$20 million deal.

On the other side of the US, the Giants signed Zito to a huge deal: 7 years/$126 million.

Didn't think he was worth that much.

Just saw the Zito deal on T.V. It's apparently the sixth largest salary deal in MLB history!

He really isn't.

Giants for the lose.

Maybe if he was the Barry Zito every baseball game from before 2004 simulated his career to be, then he'd be a bargain.

If any player played like them in any baseball video game we'd be having records broken left and right.

And also Zito is a piece of shit. He should have signed with the Mets, seeing as they are a team that wins games and can make the playoffs.

Someone's bitter.

Only a wee bit.

Being a Rangers fan I am equally bitter he didn't sign with us, until I saw his ridiculous pricetag

At least the Mets have a chance to be good next year...

Can you believe the nerve of Barry Bonds.. That son of a bitch is going to blame everyone in the sports industry for his steroid use before he grows some balls and confesses. Can you say "*?"

What's he going to blame them for? I agree with you, he's a complete SOB. He has no one to blame but himself. If this controversy continues to escalate, he can basically expect no celebration when (or if) he earns the title for home run champion. Mark Mcguire all over again....

What? There wasn't any controversy when Mark McGwire was doing his thing. Steroids weren't even a concern. Almost all of the controversy started with the possible Cooperstown induction this year.

A little confused about what you mean on that one. When Mark McGuire broke the HR record, it was him and Sosa in a race that got America really into baseball.

Nothing happened with McGuire until the steroids hearing. Like people LIKED McGuire until steroids become associated to him, and there were no steroids issues when he was playing. So it isn't really Mark McGuire all over again.

uh, America has been into baseball for like... over 100 years.

<anal>Mark McGwire</anal>

Barry Bonds is a giant asshole, and the day that everyone realizes that assholes don't make good teammates is the day he retires. (P.S.: he's a free agent.)

Except he was resigned by the Giants back in December (Edit: Wait, they're still in the contract finalization phase...for the past month...)


And Jack The Ripper, you know what I mean. Baseball suddenly got more exciting, and grabbed the attention of more than just the average baseball fan.

I guess I thought he was a FA. Oh well, the Giants can keep their clubhouse cancer. I hope he breaks Aaron's record, gets admonished for it, and turns into a close-but-not-quite Hall of Fame snub.

Thing is, he was a Hall of Fame caliber player long before he began using steroids. Now, I don't like the guy (he's a pompous asshole), but I don't think he will miss the Hall. That's the difference between him and McGwire. McGwire, according to Jose Canseco, at least, was using steroid from day one. Without the steroids, I'm sure he would have been much less powerful, thus eliminating the only positive point of his game. He couldn't hit for contact. He couldn't run. He couldn't field, and don't even tell me he won a Gold Glove. That was bullshit.

So, yeah. =D

Chase Utley agreed to Philadelphia's 7-year contract extension offer. The man's now $85 million dollars richer!

Doesn't anybody care about baseball?

Of course I care about baseball - though I guess I only care about the Yankees and a couple of players here and there.

Yeah, what's up! It's been a week now since the '07 season started!
The Blue Jays had their first home game today against the Royals. Talk about a confidence booster. The Jays demolished them 9-1, thanks to a solid outing by Burnett. He bounced back from that terrible start earlier this week, allowing only 3 hits, 1 earned run and 5 K's in 6 innings. This is going to be one hell of a season for the Jays! :)

Too bad everyone in Canada hates Toronto. :mad:

I actually went to the Mets home opener yesterday. What a game. 7 runs in the bottom of the 8th inning to win.

Mark Buerhle gave up one too many walks today. But a no-hitter isn't nothing.

Sosa (standing on 1st base): When I hit my 600th homerun, they'll treat me just like Bruce Jenner...Parades, flowers...Wow...

(pickoff throw)

Umpire: YEEEER...OUT!

Sosa: ....Dang...

Also, LOL @ Yanks pitching on the DL. Including the bum they sent us and are footing the bill for (Jaret Wright). Maybe the papers should blame their training staff, now that A-Rod's decided to not suck this year.

So ARod is on pace to hit to 117 home runs and the Yankees are on pace to win 72 games. Maybe the Yankees just suck?

So ARod is on pace to hit 68 home runs and the Yankees are on pace to win 76 games. I think the Yankees do just suck.

Like any good Red Sox fan, I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. They're 8.5 games ahead of the Yankees (biggest lead since September 1995) and have the best record in baseball. It's just a matter of time before that gap closes though; I'd say starting next month.

It would be nice if Arod hit more homers than the Yankees won games, but that is just wishful thinking on my {and Scott Boras'} part.

In other news, the Braves and Mets have been going back and forth with first and second place in the NL East for just about the entire season, but with Smoltz dislocating the last joint on his pinky finger on his pitching hand last night, I am not sure that the Braves will continue to keep pace.

Roger Clemens is worth more than every player on the Devil Rays combined.

Just because he'll be paid more than the entire Devil Rays 25-man roster doesn't mean he's worth it.

It's all about supply and demand. The Yankees needed a starting pitcher {or 3}, and Clemens is the only premier starter available right now. I'm sure that if Houston offered to give them Oswalt in exchange for cash, he would fetch a similar amount. Same could be said for guys like Brandon Webb, Felix Hernandez, Jake Peavy. Of course, if the Twins wanted to, they could probably have said to the Yankees "pay our entire team's salary this season and we will give you Johan Santana" and the Yankees would have said "who do we make the check out to".

Also, if given the choice of having Crawford, Baldelli, Delmon Young, BJ Upton, Jamie Shields, Scott Kazmir, and Elijah Dukes OR Roger Clemens, I would take the Rays. Clemens has no class; at least the Rays' problem children are trying to better themselves. Why would I want a guy who threw a broken bat at Mike Piazza during the World Series on my team? I guess the Yankees don't care about character these days.

I was just about to ask for opinions on why Roger keeps coming back, but I see some of you were already discussing it. Keep trying Roger, Nolan tried the same thing..(be he has the strikeout record to his credit and that's good enough) Cy Young's 511 wins is a long ass way away and you'd need to play til your 60 :/.

I wonder when the last time the Yankees were in last place this late in the season.

Don't know, but I'm loving it. Eat it you rich cocksuckers!

All that money spent on egos and they're getting stomped this year.

I've learned my lesson in the past; no lead is too safe. Having witnessed first hand in 2004 this very truth, I won't celebrate anything until it's October and the Red Sox are winning the World Series and the Yankees are already on vacation.

cy youngs is another record that won't likely ever be beaten. Well, maybe if Greg Maddux continues to top out in the low 80's for 10-15 years he might have a shot. 340 wins or something now. Guy is sick. Guys go up to bat thinking "I got him this time, I know what he will do!" --- second later...grounds out to 2nd..."WTF."

Maddox is definitely the smartest pitcher in the game. He never ceases to amaze me.

I love baseball. I should keep up with this thread, but the Kansas City Royals aren't exactly anything to brag about.

Post updated to reflect current standings. :tpg:

I'm loving every minute of this. Best part is I sit right next to a guy from Brooklyn everyday and I get to rub this in at least once every 15 minutes. I'm an Orioles fan (second place and gaining momentum...maybe something good happens if our starters stay good), but I'll always root for the Red Sox over the Yankees as a lesser of two evils. I haven't had much to root for, so every Yankees loss is as good as an Orioles victory right now...So I've had plenty to cheer for.

I say Erik Bedard (leads league in strikeouts, 3.60 ERA or so, 8 innings of shutout tonight, only 4 wins because of no run support) and Brian Roberts should be the O's All-Stars this year. Agree? Disagree? Anyone give a fuck about the All-Star Game?

Edit: Ouch, sorry to hear that Rainman...Bedard's shutout tonight was against KC and I know we're 6-0 against KC this year. Meche is turning into a good signing at least.

Miguel Tejada will be the lone Oriole in the All-Star Game this year. Sorry. Someone needs to back up Jeter. (Bedard's ERA is higher than Steve Trachsel's, FFS.)

The Red Sox have 5 definite All-Stars at this point: Ramirez, Ortiz, Schilling, Beckett and Lowell. With the possibility of Varitek, and Youkilis and maybe one of these three: Papelbon, Wakefield and Matsuzaka. I have the feeling that none of those three will be there and Varitek will end up going but Youkilis will be snubbed.

Eh, Miguel's having a rough stretch...He's been hitting for average, but before the Oakland series last week, he had 4 extra base hits (48 out of 52 were singles!) and it's cost us a bunch of games, frankly, considering he's our big bat and he wasn't driving in anything. I think he might get in on namebrand recognition, but I'd definitely vote Jeter ahead of him. Although, off the top of my head, I can't think of another SS having a good year right now.

Trachsel's having an excellent year, amazingly. He's just getting hosed on run support (like Bedard). Guess moving to American League did him some good...Maybe facing DH's instead of pitchers keeps him more alert. Or something. Bedard still has the edge in strikeouts and he's gotten some decent Baseball Tonight coverage as well.

It's been a while since an update. But now's as good a time as any.

Barry Bonds just hit his 756th home run, which makes another home run record (McGwire 62, Bonds 70) I've witnessed personally. There was a great video from Hank Aaron, graciously passing the torch. Mike Bacsik gave it up on the 7th pitch of the at-bat (3-2 count, 1 out, none on) and looked like he was going to cry (and later doffed his cap to Barry), and the guy who ended up with it (a Mets fan, lolololololo) was in the bottom of a nasty mosh pit involving probably 50 people and was carried away by maybe 10 cops. The grounds crew ended up taking out the bases, and his son Nikolai flew over the railing before anyone else on the Giants knew it was a homerun. 435 feet on the tape measure.

A great moment, really.

A history soiling moment.

Explain.

Is that really necessary? The man's taken more performance enhancing drugs than Max Zorin's horse. Don't pretend he hasn't.

I'll remember this if you're ever in a situation where you may be guilty but the evidence is lacking and the majority of people say you're guilty without any actual proof.

I suppose Victor Conte is in prison for not supplying him with steroids.

He's not in prison for anything right now. Equally important is that no one has been directly connected to Conte yet, simply implicated.

And I guess you think OJ was guilty, too!

Well, with the logic you're using here I expect you think he was simultaneously innocent of murder in the criminal case and guilty in the civic case. The justice system isn't the be all and end all of truth, you know.

I think there's more evidence to convict OJ than Bonds.

Well, you might expect that when they design a drug specifically so that you can't test for it.

Considering that using steroids wasn't illegal in Major League Baseball until a few years ago, I think the point is mostly moot.

It's not what you know or believe, but what you can prove.

Until someone shows incontrovertible proof that Barry Bonds used performance-enhancing drugs that were illegal, then the lot of you screaming foul are just hating.

It's not hating, NP. It's disappointment and a bit of disgust over the circular parade of shame that looms over professional sportsmen these days.

Breaking Hank Aaron's record should be a time for celebration and awe. Records should be broken. People should strive for the glory.

But even if it cannot be proven, and even if the legality of the matter is grandfather claused into mootness, the realistic potential for steroid abuse having been a factor in Bonds' achievement places a heavy damper upon the event. We want these records to be pure, to know that it was a marvel of human nature and perseverence that enabled the dream to come alive. These men become as superhumans, the stuff of legends. We shouldn't have to wonder if it was possible only because of drugs, drugs that could elevate any common man into an athletic behemoth. It takes the majesty out of the man and out of the feat.

And even if it was just one isolated suspicion, we could probably move on, we could tell ourselves it's just the embittered snipings of anti-patriots - after all, tarnishing a living legend of the national pasttime is tantamount to spitting on the American flag, right?

But Bonds is only one of numerous players suspected of using steroids. And steroid abuse is only one of numerous criminal charges looming over professional sportsmen. Sociopathic violence, illegal gambling, animal abuse, domestic abuse, alcoholism, narcotics possessions, weapons possessions, possible attempted murders, these issues have hung like dark clouds over nearly every major American sport. And that's not to mention the legal, yet shameful, primadonna behaviors exhibited by many players.

Our athletes used to be heroes! Now what are they? Thugs, criminals and poor role models for the kids who want to someday play in their shoes.

So when a monumentous occasion like Hank Aaron's record being broken comes along, we want to be overjoyed. We want to herald a victory. We want to embrace a new hero.

But...we can't. Because we know that the victory may have been dishonest. That's upsetting and we have a right to be upset. What the hell happened to our heroes? When did it become all about the money? When did selling your soul become the only path to glory?

No, it's not hate. Don't even mistake it as such. We're just disillusioned, and that looks down a far longer road to recovery.

Blahblahblahblah....

Spare me with all the sentimental shit. When I see some proof, then I'll be all about putting the proverbial foot in Bonds' ass, until then, the man is the legitimate home run king.

That argument is stupid. The non-medical use of steroids is illegal in the United States.

They're never going to gain any hard evidence that Bonds did or did not use any performance enhancers, because there was not a test available at the time that would detect the designer steroids that he allegedly used, and because MLB does not save blood samples for use at a later date, when a reliable test may become available.

While I think that he did use performance enhancers, based on the changes in his body from say 97/98 to 2000/2001, it doesn't really matter. You can't take his homeruns away. You don't see anyone trying to strike Palmeiro's 3000+ hits and 500+ homers off the books, and he was actually caught and suspended for steroids.

I mean if it really and truly bothers you guys, keep in mind that there is a fair chance that Arod will pass him in about 7 years.

If Hank Aaron is able to pass the torch amid all of the controversies and allegations, I think I can give Bonds the benefit of the doubt as well. Whether he's been truthful or not, at least Bonds has come out and said that he didn't knowingly take anything, unlike Mark McGwire and his "I'm not here to talk about the past" shit.

As far as the numbers are concerned, Bonds has more homeruns than anybody, but hammerin' Hank will always be the homerun king in my eyes because I KNOW he did it the right way... on and OFF the field. But, I tip my hat to Bonds on his accomplishment, nonetheless.

Not to mention likely at least a 100 hundred pitchers were probably using steroids anyways. I bet it will be less than 7 years russ.

Bonds hit #757 tonight.

Everyone can chutup anyway, because Sadaharu Oh's 868 will probably never be broken (unless A-Rod puts on 50+ home run seasons for the rest of his career). Though, at his current pace (44 HR/yr), he could do it in about 8.5 seasons.

Plus the Beastie Boys have never referenced Barry Bonds. So fuck him.

I like how the guy who got away with the ball was just in SF on a layover. Heck of a trip it turned out to be for that guy.

Maybe Infernal Monkey should try and steal the ball from him during his trip to Australia and use the money to fund GFF for YEARS.

Well if we're going to get into "other" leages then Josh Gibson can be argued as the homerun king. Though there are some good Japanese players I don't think anyone is going to say that their league is superior to the Major Leagues. Some baseball historians, however, will argue that the Negro Leages were on par with, if not better than, the Major Leagues (note: Jackie Robinson was an instant All-Star, but wasn't even the best player on his TEAM). Furthermore Aaron spent 2 years in the Negro Leagues before being called "up" to the majors, so should we count those homers?

On the subject of Barry Bonds. I lean towards him being dirty, but because there isn't hard evidence showing that my personal code doesn't allow me to convict him. He bulked up like hell seemingly overnight, but it isn't necessarily true that he took steroids. Putting that aside let's not forget that hitting homers takes tremendous skill. While muscles help you have to know pitchers, have a good eye, damed good reaction time, and impeccable coordination. Steroids or not Bonds has the most perfect swing I've ever seen. I don't think a team of animators could sit down and put together a better one. It's quick its compact, and it's powerful allowing him good control and a bit more time to react to pitches. Power is part of the longball, but skill is still paramount.

Bonds*, Palmero, McGwire, and Canseco aren't the only guys who took steroids. They've been singled out because they're big name hitters. The guys whos bodies almost warrant suspicion, but if hitters can be dirty why can't pitchers? Hell the guy who gave up the 755HR to bonds WAS busted for steroids not too long ago. I don't mean this to say that two wrongs make a right, but it's reasonable to believe that there are and have been juiced pitchers that Bonds homered off of.

I do think he took steriods when he hit 73. I mean Barry is well past his prime. If he was really that strong he would have done that very early in his career. Well Atlanta has nothing to be proud of anymore. Our last remaining piece of pride was snatched away.

I feel compelled to point out that the most home runs Hank Aaron hit was 47. When did he hit that total? At the ripe old age of 37. When Barry Bonds was 37, he hit 73 long balls out of the park. Not that Bonds' 73 dingers were earned without the use of drugs (especially when you consider that his next highest was 49), but hitting them at 37 doesn't seem that unreasonable. I'd imagine that homerun hitting ability doesn't diminish that quickly with age as compared to things such as speed and throwing power.

Here's a feel-good home run story: Former Cards pitcher, now Cards outfielder Rick Ankiel, hits a 3-run home run in first appearance back in majors since his flameout a few years ago.

Thirty runs. Never thought I'd see the day.

Ridiculous.

I still can't believe it. I mean, I had to double-take when I saw the score of 30-3 on ESPN's Bottom Line. That's a lopsided score in the NFL, but just trying to comprehend it in baseball is just outrageous.

Surprise, surprise.

Especially since it was against the Orioles.

The O's have been in a downward spiral for a decade now. They make it impossible to be a fan these days.

Pfft, I go away for three days and no one cares that a no-hitter was thrown by Clay Buchholz of the Red Sox.

You guys suck.

That pissed me off more than anything, to be honest. ESPN cut away from the Auburn - K State game to show it. And then they showed the damn celebration afterwards. I'm trying to watch a damn football game involving Auburn, and I am from the south. Statistically speaking, does ESPN think I give a shit about something related to the Red Sox?

Sad thing is, I have my choice of Nationals or Orioles and I'd much rather watch the Orioles. I think we have potential (we have some fine home-grown talents we didn't have even 2 years ago), but...That bullpen...Tsk, tsk. We need to figure that mess out (WHY the fuck is Buress in there, when he proved himself as a starter? He's been a disaster as a longman) and then lock Teixeira up for 10 years as our cornerstone (he's from the Baltimore area). With Bedard and Guthrie anchoring the staff, Cabrera gradually learning not to walk guys and Loewen coming back next year, I'm cautiously optimistic.

I didn't even realize the guy had a no-hitter going because I had the sound down and everytime I flipped by, Boston was scoring runs on us. Then I saw on ESPN the notice and rolled my eyes.

It's all about the Yankees losing at this point. I need SOMETHING to root for and that more than fits the bill (so I wasn't terribly upset over us losing to Boston. :p)

In Canada, there is a different sports network for every region of the country and if you have a cable hookup you can get them all for 50 cents each. It's a pretty sweet deal.

I'm a bit down about the Braves. 4 years ago me and NYRSkate talked about the braves and the yankees. He said that even though the braves flop in the playoffs, they still have 14 straight division titles and that's something to be proud of as no other teams can do that.

However. it still SUCKS. Because it was a downward spiral that started for them ever since they traded Steve Avery in...late 90s. And the trading trend started from there. Key people going bye bye ever 2-3 years. Now they are no longer on top and can't even make it to the playoffs -.-.

Just once, JUST ONCE can ONE of our MAJOR Georgia teams be great and stay great. Then you have Vick and his bullshit...

Our collage teams are doing so much better...

You do realize that Steve Avery basically never did anything productive after the Braves traded him right?

So the Braves have two season in a row that they haven't been a dominant force, get over it. When was the last time Pittsburg even won more games than they lost? When was the last time Toronto made the playoffs? The fact is that the Braves are in a bit of a transitional period right now. Ten years ago, they had one of the highest payrolls in the game, while now they are somewhere closer to the middle of the pack, so that means that they have to make tough personnel choices every year, like most other teams in the game.

Part of the problem has been that they haven't really produced any top tier young pitchers in a while. The closest thing to that has been Wainwright, but they of course traded him to St. Louis in the JD Drew trade, which by the way, helped Atlanta win their division that year. I think that Braves are going in the right direction, and they have some young players in their farm system who will be able to help them over the next couple of years, so while I doubt they will ever run off another streak of even four or five consecutive division titles, much less 14, it isn't like this is the end of the franchise as a competitive team for ever and ever. You won't see them go 15 years without making the postseason like Pittsburg.

So hey the Sox are gonna win the AL East. GTFO spankees

Yes but it started the trend and no I wont get over it.

I overreacted anyway. They still have a chance.

The66thDopefish (9:30:28 PM): ahahah you know you're going to win when your opponent has walked you with the base loaded and no one out on TWO SEPERATE OCCASIONS

Is this the place to say that the Indians are now ahead 3 to 1 against the Sox?

It's the place you can let the Sox be happy for making it so far. At this point, with the way the Sox have been blowing it in the series, Cleveland deserves to win.

No matter who makes it to the World Series, the Rockies are probably going to sweep them anyway, though. Have you watched them lately? Sheesh.

/me lives in Massachusetts.

I think that Cleveland will beat the Rockies. Assuming Cleveland finishes off Boston.

The WS this year will be VERY interesting to say the least

To be honest, I think that whichever team wins the ALCS will totally whomp the Rockies. I could be surprised, but I think this ALCS is the best baseball we'll see until the next postseason.

I'd have thought the Rockies had had a chance, but this eight day break is going to kill all their momentum. Cleveland shouldn't have too much trouble winning it after that, I don't think.

Is this the place to say that the Indians are now ahead 3 to 2 against the Sox?

I'm putting the odds of a Red Sox win at 50% now. Game 7, if played, will be one of those games pre-2004 Red Sox fans wouldn't have wanted to watch.

I've already got my avatar ready to change depending on the outcome of the series. Right now it has Randy Quaid's heckler badmouthing the Indians before Vaughn got his shit together. If they manage to win, it'll be changed.

That said I hope the Indians do manage to make it to the World Series, at least this may make way for another Major League movie that's set with them, instead of that Minors crap.

Is this the place to say that the Indians are now fucked?

I am so worried about Game 7 though. Dice-K needs to come through like J.D. Drew did tonight.

Indians got raped hardcore today.

Fucking 10-1 at bottom of the 4th?

12-2 final score in Boston's favor. They played damn well today. Pitching was solid from Schilling, and hitting was of course superlative. Awesome job by JD Drew to put Boston on top for the long haul and take the starting pitcher out early. 5 RBI's for the night is none too shabby.

Boston ain't a bunch of sandbaggers, thats for sure! (despite Manny's comments, which were probably taken out of context anyways) Still, I am not sure Daisuke really is going to pitch well next game (game 7) as he's had problems acclimating to the post season.

Still, its good to see my team making a comeback.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...e72007ALCS.jpg

Ahahahaha we're gonna win...

There will be dancing in the streets of Boston (and Kansas City) tonight!!

Yes. Yes there will be is.

BOSTON PAP SMEARED EM

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...e72007ALCS.jpg

lol I want to say it was the Red Sox that took the Indians out of the playoffs after the events of the first Major League as well. But I watched the last couple of innings and Cleveland... well... lol Guess they didn't win this one for Lou :edgartpg:

grats Dope

Indians made a series of it, but the Red Sox magic is just too much.

WOOT! :)

Between the amazing late season surge of the Rockies and the persistent post-season heart of the Red Sox, this is going to be one hell of a series.

So the Red Sox are going to win the World Series. Here's why:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/galle...01/09colnj.jpg

The Bruins gave the Avalanche Ray Bourque and they won the Stanley Cup with him a year later. They owe us.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! JUST END THE GOD DAMN GAME!

I regret that I have but one prop to give, sir. Seriously. Fucking win.




Also, way to go Rockies. 1 2 3 straight walks with the bases loaded. Lovely.

This is just wrong...and a valuable waste of TV time

We didn't need the extra runs, but I don't think you'll hear anyone rooting for the Sox complaining. I'll complain if Beckett throws more than this inning. He probably should be done already.

I have to say, I'm a right smug bastard right about now. A buddy of mine's been telling me how the Rockies will cruise through the series for weeks.

Makes me wonder why forfeits are so rare in baseball...Give it up, save the bullpen and come back tomorrow.

What a disaster...

Because that is very dishonorable!

We must keep our honor and get our asses handed to us by throwing shitty pitches!

I kinda thought they'd do really well too.

8 day lay-off was apparently a killer.

Maybe Colorado is trying to be like the indians.

Suck it up game one, kick ass the next 3

Saw how that turned out.

The Red Sox are like the Fezzik of baseball. They just want the other team to feel they're doing well.

THANK GOD! It's over!

Julio "End of the Inning" Lugo is a waste of a lineup spot.

And a wifebeater.

And a former Tampa Bay Devil Ray.

Ouch, can't top that one.

Good game so far in any case. Jimenez vs Schilling doesn't sound fair on paper, but it's anyone's ballgame right now. The Colorado 3rd baseman made a pretty spectacular play earlier in the 5th (I think it was the 5th).

Edit: Corrected. Jimenez just got taken out.

Denicalis: Sweet.
The Dopefish: I'll say sweet if lowell drives anyone home
Denicalis: I'm just glad to see ortiz and manny on base.
The Dopefish: yeah, well, they're slow, so it doesn't amount to much unless you get an extra base hit
Denicalis: Like that?
The Dopefish: precisely
Denicalis: Sweet.
The Dopefish: sweet

Additional Spam:
Going to Denver up 2-0 then. WOOOOOOOOO

Great news for the Red Sox and their fans all-around: A-Rod is going to become a free agent, and we're 6 defensive outs away from another World Series championship.

Additional Spam:
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

A-Rod coming to Boston would be absolutely amazing, though I doubt it will happen. He's the only guy I like on the Yankees now that Torre's gone.

A-Rod coming to Boston would be hard to swallow, both economically and pride-wise. I'm interested, but Scott Boras is gonna be asking for a LOT of money.

Heh, I knew when Boston won the WS a couple of years ago that it was going to be thier time to shine for awhile.

Boston doesn't need A-Rod. I mean, I feel the Yanks were a lot better team without him. He is a great baseball player, don't get me wrong but he certainly might not be best for maintaing the Red Sox sense of team chemistry. He also has proven he is not a loyal ballplayer. He will go where the money and nightlife is. He will also sell tickets...lots of them.
But for now, why not revel in the idea that the Red Sox pretty much kickass as is?

BTW, WOOT! BOSTON FOR THE WIN!