Kerry and his "botched joke"
 

(Full article read here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13018908/)
I read about it this morning, and kind of laughed. I can hardly count this as a "botched joke" considering how completely different the two speeches were. And when delivering a "joke" of that subject matter, you're pretty dumb if you don't take extra care delivering it. I also laughed because I wasn't sure at what point politicians became comedians, and vice-versa, or when they became little kids taking immature stabs at each other (though I've seen a lot of this, so I'm guessing it dates back to the late 1800's) but come on...

Anyway, so what do you all think? Was he trying to say something else here? Was it just a poor joke phrased even more poorly? Do you think it was hilarious?

I think he's an idiotic ass. But on the flip side, I'm willing to cut the guy a tiny bit of slack and give him the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes speeches just go awfully wrong. People make mistakes in public speaking (although it's not comforting when political figures do. You're negotiating a peace treaty? Uh... how about no? You might accidentally tell the man you want to piss on him and his family, not peace for him and his family.) Overall I think it's being blown way out of proportion, but I was curious to know what everyone else was thinking on this. Also any general thoughts on Kerry are welcome.

I don't think the prepared statement or what he actually said were intended as jokes.

Honestly, I think it would have been a big zing against Bush if he had said what was actually written for him. In that case, I would agree that he shouldn't apologize for that remark as it has some truth to it. On the other hand, he didn't establish the context of the statement when he delivered it (so it sounded like he was saying dumb college students will end up in Iraq), which I would find quite insulting if I were a student listening to the speech. So in this case, I think Kerry should just swallow it and apologize, and manage to save the tattered remains of his public image in the process.

It's being blown out of proportion for a reason, because it is election season, which means that Kerry shouldn't even be sniffing jokes like this. The Democrats are doing good right now, and he gives ammo to the Republicans. Either he's an idiot who can't tell a good joke or he thinks American troops are stupid. Either way, why would you take the emphasis of the election off the Republicans and put it on Democrats?

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

(For the record, I don't think what he said is bad. Anyone who is offended needs to lighten the fuck up. But this is politics and he fucked up bad.)

This man speaks the truth. Suddenly people will forget about whether they should re-elect people who were indicted because John Kerry told a lousy poor-tasted joke. Republicans are going to look for anything they can right now to make the other party look bad.

This is some great political theater. I love election years.

I think that he thinks that everybody is stupid. The whole "you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart" statement leads me to believe this. Make an effort to be smart? Doesn't that mean you're a moron just trying to be smart? He didn't outright say it, but it's implied.

Oh well. If he insulted a crowd and they laughed at being insulted, he's justified in thinking that. Although insulting supporters, or potential voters isn't that smart either.

Am I one of the only people who thinks that Kerry meant JUST what he said?

Given his track record regarding the troops, is it that hard to believe that what he slipped up and said isn't too fucking far from what he actually believes.

http://www.drudgereport.com/irak.jpg

I couldn't help it, this picture was too funny considering what Kerry said.

That said, I'm going to hold my opinion on this, cause I don't want to "pull a Kerry" :D

well, besides being a blow to the troops, I don't think it was meant like that. It would have been OK if any normal civillian had said it, but since Kerry is who he is....

There's a core truth to what he said.

If you work hard and keep your grades up, you have more opportunities at age 18 than if you didn't (particularly for someone from a poor family who snags some academic scholarships.) Otherwise, a 4-year stint in the military is a decent and attractive way for someone who's reasonably intelligent, but just missed getting a scholarship. Of course, it has it's risks, and you do earn that college tuition through the GI bill.

Two of my brothers were in the service (1 in the navy, 1 in the army), and they did it to serve their country, gain some skills, and potentially build on their training by going to school after they were done.

Back to Kerry, you do have to be careful what you say, even if it has a grain of truth. He should know better, especially since his party is so quick to pounce on anyone who utters the tiniest of slights against a group. I don't agree that we have to be so sensitive, and Kerry's statement doesn't bother me, but these are the times we live in, so the rules are the rules.

Damn, Gecko. I was hoping to post that picture :tpg:

I think it's been blown out of all proportion myself. Still, Kerry should know by now that the views of the electorate can turn on a dime, and it isn't the character of the person up for election that matters as much as the PR surrounding that person over the last couple of months.

Bush makes far more mistakes when he's giving speeches and what-not, but because he seems more humble and doesn't appear aloof, it allows people to accept those mistakes. On the other hand, I doubt many voters can relate to Kerry very well.

A joke is suppose to be funny, neither what Kerry said, nor the "real" intended prepared statement are funny.

I think when you get right down to it, Kerry is a blithering idiot. I mean, I think he was the only presidential candidate in history that covered and agreed with every side of every issue. After all, he did vote FOR the war before he voted against it(his words by the way). Kalekkan, you honestly think that the Republicans are bigger weasels than the Democrats? I admit they are both a bit weaselish, but the Democratic party puts spin on EVERYTHING. They have the biggest, stupidest mouths in the government and they don't know when to close them. For God's sake they are using Michael J. Fox as one of their poster boys just because he shakes alot! I mean, sure it's horrible but it's kind of hitting below the belt on stem cell research if you ask me. Political elections should be won through intellect and not putting sick people on tv. Honestly, I'm not surprised that Kerry botched up his speech. I expect nothing less from him and the rest of his red diaper doper baby friends. What we need is politicians who are NOT career politicians. People who aren't as manipulative. Unfortunately, I don't see that anywhere in sight. We are supposed to be the Rome of today. Unfortunately we are... almost to a T. Remember how Rome fell? We certainly are going down a similar path.

Ya, how dare they talk to someone who would benefit from stem cell research about stem cell research? They should ONLY talk to strong christians with no interest in said research!

Also, you're right... it shouldn't be won by putting pictures of sick people on TV. Or showing the towers getting knocked down. Or, I don't know, the fact that a huge number of the party members are indicted right now. I mean, really, let's all stick to the issues.

Shut up, Aramaethe. You help nothing by being such a far right bigot. You're no better than the far leftists. You hinder the discussion, you don't help it. Stop listening to Limbaugh and read a fucking book for once in your life.

Really? I thought polls were won by thumb wrestling and games of tic-tac-toe.

Yes, because as the country has gone down the toilet over the past few years, when the liberals had no control in government, it's their fault? Man, go take logic 100.

And who should they use for stem cell research, superstar? A perfectly able man with no issues of cancer or actual defect? And they didn't -use- him. Michael J. Fox actively promotes this. And, finally, listen to what all sides? Kerry told a bad joke, even if he'd told it -right- it was fucking stupid. That's the end of it. Want to talk political scandal? How's Abermoff doing?

For the record, I'm a centrist, by the way. With leanings to the right. Yet even I can see how full of shit this government has been. The fact you can't even acknowledge that you're spouting Limbaugh garbage is pathetic. Grow up.

Oh fuck you, the country has been ruinin itself for the past fifty years, but let's get back on topic. I'll be as politically correct as possible. I believe tha Senator Kerry should have rethought his speech so as not to sound like a FUCKING MORON.

Raz, I said liberals not Democrats. There are Lib Republicans out there. They impede progress at every opporunity.

Aramaethe, shut up. Right now.

Absolutely. Now stick to actual facts next time instead of spitting gibberish and we won't pick you apart like you were a finger painter at an art exhibit.

I completely agree with you. You are right, i shouldn't have called him narrow minded. But, I think it's just about impossible to pick me apart. Oh, Lord Styphon decided to join in, trust you to come and talk about something completely useless. I believe last time I talked to you you criticized my spelling.

"We want to ban black people the right to vote." "We disagree." "STOP IMPEDING PROGRESS."

"We want to destroy the separation between church and state." "We disagree." "STOP IMPEDING PROGRESS."

"We want to go back to a hunter/gatherer population wherein the leader is he who swings the strongest sword." "We disagree." "STOP IMPEDING PROGRESS."


I totally see your point. You're well-educated and on point with everything you say. And, to top it all off, you're a stunningly talented debator. Next you can tell me all about how black is white because the liberals invented black so it's a lie.

So explain the post above where I just did.

Well, what would have been the point of that? Bush isn't up for re-election, and neither is Kerry. His statement comes as no surprise. He meant what he said, and when it didn't slide by like he expected he had to turn tail and back out. It's this kind of attitude that lost him the election in 04. He acts like he's a man of the people, when it's obvious that through this type of rhetoric, that he's an elitist. This is just Kerry showing his true colors, and I'm sure most of the Dems are pissed.

Also, I've gotta agree with Aramaethe and say that the use of MJ Fox as emotional propoganda is pretty sickening. The poor man has a disease, and politicians are using him to win elections. It was just as disgusting as when John Kerry tried to group himself in with Chris Reeve. Politicians would have you believe that voting for them could cure MJ Fox, and that the other side would rather see him suffer and die. But really, every side is guilty of using the spin machine, and it's shitty when anybody does it. Elections are just a dirty game.

I didn't say they were liars( they are though ). I'm just sayin what I think is best for the country. Those quotes are ideas I don't agree with. Ahem, are you black? Cause if you are...j/k.
You bitch at me because i said someone was narrow-minded but noone will hear me out because i am extreme right wing.

For the last time: MICHAEL J. FOX WAS MAKING THESE COMMERCIALS WAY BEFORE THE ELECTIONS. He's been doing it since he pulled back from Spin City. He's been campaigning, INDEPENDENTLY OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, and supports people who support Stem Cell research. If it was a Republican, he'd support them. He's campaigning for a cause, not a party. Did you even watch the fucking commercial? Did you see the other one's he's made? God, people. Do your homework before you start ranting.

Actually, it's not entirely useless. Thank you for coming in and giving us a live demonstration of how John Kerry learned that saying something stupid, even if it's just one thing, serves as a lightning rod that brings everything to a screeching halt as everyone turns to blast you for saying something stupid.

And then, like Senator Kerry, making it worse by not just shutting up and going away after saying something stupid the first time.

First off, the first sentence is the fucking height of hypocrisy and idiocy. Congratulations, I'll make you a medal. And no, we don't dismiss you for being right wing, we dismiss you because you make blanket statements with no proof backing them up whatsoever. If I walked into a club and yelled "people who like techno are ruining the country!" I wouldn't expect them to be dismissing me because I'm tall, I'd expect they're doing it because I'm clearly an idiot. You follow me here, chief?

Sure he is (MJ FOX on making his own decisions), but for some strange reason, I don't get the impression that those that would benefit from his support actually care about his cause. They seem to care more about their own personal advancement. But then again, that's just the impression that I've gathered. Perhaps I'm wrong to label all politicos as power hungry scumbags instead of humble public servants.

Michael J Fox has proven himself to be a very intelligent man over the years. I'd say he's more likely to be using the politicians than the other way around.

I think MJ Fox's cause is a noble one. I'd just like to see some of these politico's show some support for his cause all the time instead of just election time.

Let's hope so.

Ya, that I can fully support. I think politicians could do a lot if they'd just fucking stick to their guns.

You can't be serious... weaselish? No, I'm talking about indictments and breaking the law. I mean, come on... Tom Delay, former House Majority Leader had to step down because of taking bribes and money laundering. And what example do you bring to argue with? Michael J Fox?

Take a look at this article.

That quote couldn't be in any simpler English. If certain Republicans could stop taking bribes and chasing around underage boys then maybe they wouldn't be endangered of losing their majority standing.


Thanks for the added useless spam... not that you'll probably even read this post or follow-up with the topic, but I'll elaborate and explain something to you anyway. Polls are not only won by slinging mud desperately at your opponents. Things like setting a positive example and not being under investigation tend to help campaigns go a bit smoother. When you've got over a dozen spots threatened, all you care about is trying to take the negative focus on that and put it somewhere else.

Look, I'm not saying that all of yall's points aren't valid ones. But, I'm not going to write a ten page essay about why i dislike liberals just for the sake of a forum, that is why I make blanket statements because I will do nothing more than speak generally on a topic unless I feel it is absolutely necesary. Kalekkan, I see what you are saying now, I think i misconstrued what you were saying.
But seriously, is what I'm saying really stupid? Or do you just refuse to accept my beliefs because they are extreme? I don't see any other reason why you wouldn't. Who are you people to say that something is stupid. OH! I forgot that you people sit and play with Gamingforce all day long. That obviously counts for something right?

No, but my three degrees do. As does my long term involvement in politics. But I mean, clearly I'm dismissing you for being extreme, Simply Majestic. It's not because you say things like Liberals are ruining America, a country founded on liberalism, or because you run your mouth about how the left is using Michael J. Fox, when if you did your homework, you'd know he sought out the candidate, not the other way around. I'm saying you're wrong because you are. But keep talking, you make me look good.

Honestly, i don't care about your degrees, I'm working on mine. That doesn't make you right, and it doesn't make me think any better of you because you are involved in politics. Doesn't the candidate have to agree to someone's support as far as ads and promos go?

You don't have to, but, uh, generally people don't like being dismissed out of hand, especially by someone who has admitted he has no interest in actually debating anything in the debate forum.

(...)

Oh no, I'm debating.

Like the part where you refuse to acknowledge others' arguments, and keep spouting tired pundit rhetoric?

If yo u read more carefully I am accepting their arguements. It is they who don't accept mine.

You've avoided their arguments in favor of explaining why you shouldn't have to explain yourself. Saying "my arguments are extreme" does not count as a valid point.

But hey, it's your funeral.

told u i wuz hardcore

Oh c'mon Deni, you know that the liberals of today are quite different than classical liberals. To come out and say that the US was founded on the current connotation of "liberal" is quite a stretch. They have quite a different view on the role of gov't.

You know, I've never met anyone intelligent who wanted to join the armed forces. I don't think Kerry was trying to tell a joke. I think he was trying to share facts.

loolz.

Yeah, it's one thing to join the military for the honor/prestige/serving country factor, but sadly any of that is watered down by the immense number of high school drop outs that decide to do nothing else with their lives, so they just give in to the military pestering them and go enlist.

edit: on the enlisting topic though, I feel bad for anyone coming back from serving in Iraq and getting shit from basically anyone. People on the road, soccer moms, etc. etc. If I were to put my life on the line for their country, I would expect some damn respect from the country I'm doing it for, but jeez. Well, it might be a different story for those who are just serving because they decided to do nothing else. k end tangent

If he actually was serious, as you suggest, it merely offers further evidence that John Kerry is an idiot.

Military positions are often what you make of them. Some of the most elite jobs in the nation involve the military. However, military personnel who do well at their positions can find themselves being shifted all over the globe which really isn't something that settles too well with some people who want to consider it as a career. Also, private companies like Lockheed who work for the military often offer better pay rates. It's likely the people you've met didn't have very high goals set and often for those people, military is an easy choice. You can enter with fairly low education and come out with a decent skill set, high discipline, and early retirement.


People aren't refusing to accept your beliefs because they are extreme. People are refusing to accept what you say because you aren't backing up any of it with anything. You are spouting offensive nonsense and not following up with it. You think liberals are ruining the country? Give an example. So far all I've seen from you is Michael J Fox.

You're probably making posts in the wrong section on this forum then and should probably keep your blanket statements to yourself. You have a ChocoJournal, use it.

Then why is it that you are here? Criticizing people for something you're currently doing isn't very intelligent.

Honestly I don't think what he said is as bad as people make it out to be. In the context of Kerry's military service, if he meant what he actually said, it would be somewhat true. Look who got drafted to serve in Vietnam, minorities and poor whites, because they couldn't afford to go to college. Of course since this is 2006 his comment is pretty much insulting, but not suprising since he had a habit of putting his foot in his mouth.

You know, as far as RAB's personal experiences are concerned, it could, maybe, be that he's Australian, and that you probably would have to be an idiot to join the Australian Army.

I'm not trying to impress, but if you attack me I'll insult you. Anne Coulter? What a lame excuse for a laugh. Nice, am I to assume you don't watch Fox News? I didn't ever say that people would like what I had to say.
The Democratic party is a shell of what it was. They used to be reasonable about most issues and both parties would work together to come to a compromise. I'm not saying the Republicans are any better. What I am saying is that John Kerry is a sorry excuse for a politician.

You are right, this wasn't the place for that and I'm sorry. It's just that when people start drilling me for my first statement I can't stop the "jive". My beliefs are strong about some things. Maybe I'll indulge one day.

"No guys, I didn't mean that. I just meant the one guy. How could you assume I meant 'everybody' when I clearly said 'everybody'. Fucking democrats and their putting spin on things."

People drill you on your first statement because you came off like a poorly educated ass. Your problem isn't that you have extreme beliefs, it's that, just like Simply Majestic, you have poorly supported conjecture. That's it. That's all. You have opinions, and you have nothing to back them up. You haven't offered a shred of evidence, outside of basically quoting Limbaugh, someone you've already discredited yourself. And then you slam people who talk politics on gamingforce, something you yourself are currently doing. You need a new shovel, yet? That one in your hands looks a little worn down.

Now I can see how you could have compared me to Simply Majestic, Deni. Cause I see what this guy's doing and it's basically the same.

Aramaethe, a word of advice. Best to back down completely. I don't say this to be rude, it's just how things work. If something's your opinion, let it be known that it's just your opinion and don't speak of it like it's fact. If you have some evidence supporting it, cite the evidence. Take a debate class, maybe it'll help. But you're not gonna win on any point you've tried to make, now. Cut your losses, and come back with a new approach.

I can easily agree, though, that John Kerry is a poor excuse for a politician. Then again, so are a lot of the others, in my opinion. I don't think anyone here is extolling Kerry's political greatness in any way, so don't expect much argument there.

Aye, I don't think anyone is here to say John Kerry is a competent person. The man lost a damn near unloseable election, he routinely sticks his foot down his throat, and he's utterly lacking in charisma.

Right, and it's an Australian research & development company that's developing Metal Storm for our DoD.

That's all well and good. What I'm saying is that RAB's personal experience doesn't mean jack squat.


Also, considering the Project for the New American Century it's hard not to think liberals are ruining this country.

No no, there are better ways to get someone killed than putting them in the armed forces. If you put him there, he'll just be wasting precious ammo. Maybe some of our own precious ammo, too.

What Kerry said didn't bother me that much but if you put yourself in a the shoes of someone serving in the military or one of their family members I can see how it might be a little offensive. Whether it was a joke or not, he should have just appologized and kept to himself but instead he had to keep digging a bigger hole for himself by not shutting up. Whether you like Kerry or not, he just doesn't have a sense of humor and he always seems robotic like if he has no feeling which probably adds to people's dislike of him at times.

I do think this is being overdone though. I mean, he did give an apology though it was a very mediocre one at that.

What happen to the days when politicians did have minds of their own. Nowadays they just follow each other's butts. The Republicans seem to be mindless drones of the President and Democrats don't want to agree with anything that has to do with Republicans. It's not a bad thing to disagree with your own party on something; it shows that you can think for yourself and you don't let other people control what you think.

Really though, it's only rational for the GOP to jump all over this and collect a little political capital. They're out to win elections just like every other politician. Any time dirt comes out on anybody you can be sure it'll be used against the opposing party. The difference in this situation is Kerry would've done his party better to keep his mouth shut. Who the hell does he think he is telling "jokes" anyways? The guy is funny to laugh at, not with. He's about as charismatic as a leper.

I think some politicians should use their sense of humor a lot more. It probably would've helped Bob Dole out back in 96. The eps of the Daily Show where he's a guest are so damn funny. Stewart seems perpetually surprised by how sharp and hilarious he is.

In an ideal situation, yes. But one of the reasons (among many others) that the Democratic party is the minority right now is because of internal squabbling.

In national politics, party unity is key. Without that, you cannot send a unified message about what the party (and therefore YOU) stand for. People are almost universally lazy when it comes to politics. Instead of researching a particular person's stance, they vote more or less on party lines. If one party presents clearly and concisely "I stand for X, Y, and Z," and the other does not, then generally people will vote for the person representing the former. There are exceptions, however, such as scandals or a poor candidate.