EDIT: Just to clarify for those reading this split thread out of context, I did not create it. This thread was split after this post: http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/ge...ost281011.html with plenty of exchange related to this split thread taking place before it.

SeRaPH should indeed hire you as a diplomatic PR person considering how you managed to make the above paragraph about Böcker all neutral sounding (I'm pretty sure Jason Michael Paul Productions just abused Böcker's positive reputation to lure all those composers to all those Play! events). >_>

Mr Maul, I don't know what you're talking about... I don't have a personal blog, anymore that is, and any personal blogs nor production blogs would have nothing in terms of offensive nature. If you would like to enlighten me with that, plz PM me with the link.

Perhaps I should restrain my personal opinion to some extent but truth is the truth. In the end, what Thomas had been feeling towards Play and how they are run is reflected by actions and the truth really comes out, its only a matter of time.

Anyhow, Thomas is really koo ^^ I never disliked him from the beginning, very interested in what he has to offer to the VGM community...

I personally think Seraph is allowed to post his/her opinion on this ordeal, Mr. Maul.After reading his/her posts, I lost alot of desire to see Play! concerts. If they don't care about the music, then what is the point? If the composers aren't happy, then the fans can't be happy.

When I went to VGL and heard MGS being played, it was awesome, the arrangement was so cinematic, it gave me hope and excitment that VG music can be take seriously like film music does. The Play! version was rather pathetic by comparison. And hearing how disrespectful they are has shown their true colors, if it came from the composer's mouth, wouldn't we rather side with them than with the producers who flash their fake smiles and promote their mediocrly arranged concerts to get money?

Seraph is posting because of what he/she believes in VGM, and while its natural he/she will want to promote his/her concert in better light, the fact remains that the composers were not happy, and neither should fans who go to these concerts. He/she is speaking in behalf of himself/herself, not for the concert, so why should he have to make the posts sound neutral or professional? This is a forum, not the concert's website. He only mentions his concerts to prove that he does have contact with the insiders of VGM concerts. Other than that, anything he posts its his opinions, which he is free to express as long as he's not flaming others.

There's a difference between spamming and stating one's opinion.

its a pity I lost my desire to go see Play!, they do have licence to alot of hot titles now... But if they can't keep the artistic integrity, than its not worth the trip or money.

I haven't criticised many of his points, merely their presentation and his choice to express certain ones; i.e. I'm glad he said a lot of what he did, but not how he said it.

He's become very personal against Jason and Arnie and combined criticism of PLAY! with self-promotion of his own orchestra, Eminence. I don't care whether most members post respectfully or with professionalism; it's not my place to say that. But when the founder and leader of the so-called best alternative to PLAY! makes these comments repeatedly and inanely, I can't help but pity Eminence's members and feel that Western symphonic VGM concerts, Europe's aside, are temporarily doomed.

Also, I should add that, if the composers were not happy, it's not right for Seraph to act as a vector for expressing their private opinions. They entrusted Seraph to keep things private but he's used what they've told him in a way intended for his own advantage... while undermining the integrity of the composers, PLAY!, and ultimately himself in the process.

Finally, I'm not neutral in this and intend not to be a diplomat or a voice for PLAY! I was appalled by Seraph's presentation and abuse of trust. Nothing more, nothing less. I have little reason to act professional, whereas Seraph does.

I doubt any of the composers can say anything in public without offending Play!, when they probably wanna at leasy keep their relationships pleasant. No one can really tell the truth without having the producers shut them up or use other means to silence them. At least Seraph here is trying to spread the truth.

Perhaps he shouldn't have gotten to personal with he critisim, but I think its at least brave of him to post the truth, even if it means he will receive backlash for the way he posted. But don't we all have personal harsh opinions on others, and how they do things? If Jason has screwed around with people or other concerts like VGL through less ethical means, its kinda hard NOT to get personal.

Some restraint should be added, but I think getting the message out is more important right now, after all, how the hell can the composers tell us that they felt Play! screw them over, when the game developing companies probably support them? They chose their professionalism over telling the truth, while Seraph is doing the opposite. Personally to me that's quite admirable.

And do we know whether or not the composers ask for their opinions to be a secret? Maybe freelancers want people to know what happened.

I mean Seraph told me through PM how the composers were treated:

If Jason and Arnie did bad crap like that, it should be known, so someone can fix it. And I'd be pissed if I was treated like that. Seraph simply posted his opinions and nothing more. We all have our ways to express and speak, let Seraph do it his own way, at least when he targeted Jason he kinda deserved it. He speaking for himself on how he feels about Play! as a VGM concert. I don't see why he needs to act professional just cause he happens to have a concert of his own. He's not even a producer, he's the concert master and performer, and they do have rights to express their thoughts.He's not some shady producer who wants to badmouth others so he can get more sales, he's a performer who has heard of the dark side of the production of the concerts and wants to voice his views on it.

If what the above quote says is true, than Jason is being unprofessional .I think thats far worse than someone who happens to be in a concert series posting what he thinks. My violin teacher is the vice concert master in his orchestra, and he has opinions on everything, and its not like his producers or agents can tell him to shut up, the only professional concern is his performance, and judging from Seraph's position and job, thats his only concern in the profession as well. If they're not gonna fire him for "spreading gossip", why should we get all upset when he posts his personal views on a forum?

All I'm saying is that unless Seraph really gets out of hand, I dont see why we need to tell him to quit it. Perhaps a solution is for him to tell the FULL STORY in one post, and then not mention again in the future unless something new occurs, so we can know the truth without him reposting the same issues again, since that seems to be one of your major concerns with this. Other than that, there's no need to overeact to someone's valid negative opinion on other producers in other concerts.

Oh, one question, where did he badmouth Arnie Roth exactly? I don't recall his name mentioned in previous posts, only in my PM from him. What is this Blog you speak of from your previous posts and whats the url? Maybe if I read it then I'll know what you meant when you said he made alot of offensive comments, when I haven't seen any extreme ones here on this topic.

Sorry about that Mr Maul, but I don't mean we are any kind of alternative. We aren't. I'm just using examples to talk, and there aren't much examples in the world besides us. You see, we don't really mind if we lose money to hold orchestral concerts. We love what we do and we recoup the costs by working hard to do smaller concerts actual recording of soundtracks etc. Also, I don't want people to come to our concerts because I say or some other eminence staff say we're good. Hence we put things up on Youtube for people to check out.

I'm sorry if I come up as a shady producer to you but by no means, I am a producer and if I am, I am the most crappiest producer of them all lol. I just want to play my instrument and perform the music I love.

Brave or foolish? No offence, SeRaPH, but I personally think the latter in this case. The fact you're no producer (thank goodness) doesn't mean that you shouldn't still have similar responsibilities to them where professionalism is concerned. The role of concertmaster and founder are both massively important and professionalism is demanded, as the public spotlight is on them.

If you want Eminence to be a worldwide event, then several things will have to happen first, including an improvement of its image. You wonder why Jason rejected your request to perform at Sydney? Given you abuse trust and have no concept of professionalism, it's no wonder Jason sticks with professionals, albeit ones that unfortunately have little time for VGM. I have no problem with orchestras made by fans and commend you for doing this successfully, but there will be a preconception among most that the productions may be consequently lacking professionalism. When you act infantile, it only affirms this image.

Finally, have we not missed the big picture? Regardless of if PLAY! is produced by a commercialistic monster and went against copyright laws, or the fact a few composers were disappointed by their personal experiences at the concerts, they're still a tour that will satisfy many, many people. When VGM still needs more recognition, it's a great step forward, and VGL, Eminence, Leipzig, etc. exacerbate this. Commercial/critical competition isn't as important as achieving greater recognition for VGM, in my opinion.

I'm sure you're a great performer, SeRaPH, and I do wish you and Eminence the very best, though I'm sick and tired, like many others, of your biased comments full of inaccuracies and motivated by a tendency to self-promote. If you wish to make negative comments about PLAY! without abusing trust, I'd have no problem with you; however, since you continue your charade here and via PM, it's obvious you're on one childish one-man campaign

Anyway, I've said my thoughts on this many times already, so I'll be quiet now. *cues being flamed* *shrugs*

Well I think Play! should at least fix certain problems that Seraph here has raised, I believe it is MOST of the Japanese composers who had bad treatment and experiences when asked to appear in Play!, not a few.

This tour may satisfy alot of fans, but at what cost? If Jason has indeed used deciet to gain all this, shouldn't it be known? If Jason is able to screw people at VGL, they certainly can do whatever they want with Eminence, I doubt its due to Eminience unprofessionalism that lead Jason's refusal, thanks to what I heard from his track record. And I still doubt fans will be happy if the composers aren't treated with respect, maybe not to the point of not going to one of the concerts, but in a long run it will have consequences, and will affect Play!'s image. How can we make sure VGM is known to more people if the peopl who work on them don't even take it seriously? Eminence has people who love VGM working on it, Play! has a bunch of professionals who don't give a damn it seems. VGM should be spread by people who care, not to make a quick buck.

And poor arrangements can lead to giving people bad impressions on VGM. It seems that Play!'s program tends to go up and down interms of arragement quality, the VGL one I went to was 9/10 for almost the whole show.

I don't see how someone like Seraph, who has spoken with alot of Japanese composers can be considered unprofessional, if he is one, than why do they allow him to use the music? It IS a possible scenario that Jason pulled a coprate monster thing, dicked him over and now Seraph isn't happy with it, and wanted others to know as a warning. A guy who has made further concert plans with more big name Japanese composers can't possible be a horrible, unprofessional childish man that you called him as.

And I doubt it was Seraph's intention to do a charade to make Eminence look better. He just points out things that Play! have done that wasn't respectful that they can greatly improve on. I think this all stemed from misinterpretation from what he posts. I FULLY understood what you said Mr.Maul, I just don't think that was Seraph's intentions at all. He like you, wants VGM to be known to more people, his concerts barely get much profit and money was never the intention. Dunno about Play! though...

BTW, you still haven't shown me this blog you accused him of. He hasn't insulted anyone in this thread as far as I know. Maybe in the PMs, but thats the point of PMs, you say things you won't say in public.

heyho.

i am curious to know who are the japanese composers who were complaining?! reading eminence's latest announcments about upcoming concerts and their involved musicans it look like bad feelings are coming from mitsuda and sakimoto. mmmmhhhhhhhmmmmm. MOST of the jap composers had bad treatment?! well well well. i only see two. bad enough but no reason for eminence to bash play. who knows what composers are thinking about eminence!

you hear mgs, you do not like it and now you think that everything at play is crap?! vgl is using playback which makes it much more emberrasing in my book.
eminence obviously is using selfmade student arrangemts. they might be made with a lot of love and effort, but ... ...

1. how many japanese composers. two or three?!! 2. he has no right to tell their opinions in the public, period.

i am getting sick of that crap, sorry. if he canot make any money, it is his problem. it just sounds like a stupid excuse to me. if he cannot make people attending his concerts and at least cover costs, there might be a serious quality issue with eminece as well, dunno.

sooorry for a quite harsh posting. i just couldnt believe what i was reading here. i do not give a damn on play, vgl, eminence and whatever, their leaders are about selfpromotion only... i wish these kind of concerts would have never spread out outside of japan, this is when all the rubbish started to happen!!!

First of all, I've received confirmation that Yura's points about PLAY! illegally using Square Enix FMVs for Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts are all wrong. Rights are owned by companies other than Square Enix for the FMVs used and Jason carefully selected them while using his 'contacts' so that no laws were bypassed. It's as I suspected. For PLAY! to blatantly abuse copyright would be highly unlikely.

Deceit? What deceit? Money, marketing, and lots of corporate techniques, but little directly deceitful. While I think he overinflated the aims of PLAY!, he's never technically deceived.

It's very unfortunate that Jason did not take the composers to dinner after the Detroit concert, but that doesn't mean they had a terrible all-round experience. The feedback from the composers that have attended PLAY! was very positive and they also found their treatment generally good, though a few people privately complained about the 'meet and greet' and lack of post-concert events.

As Meiusta rightly said, 'he has no right to tell their opinions in the public, period'. Hitoshi Sakimoto and Yasunori Mitsuda entrusted him with information; no matter what the circumstances or 'honourable' intentions, Yura has no right to abuse that trust. I'm amazed it hasn't affected his relationship with these composers, though maybe they're not aware of his behaviour. If not, they should be.

I never called him horrible. Unprofessional and childish, though? Well, this thread is a testament to that.

I don't care whether he likes me or not. We don't know each other and I have made lots of negative comments towards him, so I'd be shocked if he truly did like me. :p

Hehe. Too true.

When I see 'Harry Simons' under the role of 'Music Transcriptions and Arrangements', I have no faith in the quality of the arrangements. As much as I like Harry, he is not a trained musician and has had minimal composing experience. Heck, he hasn't even done fan arrangements. My brother was also asked to arrange for them. I have no idea why, as, again, he has no experience. Next they'll be asking me... *shudders*

I assume Eminence are desperate for giving people to arrange for them for free. When this is the case, I don't really think they should compare themselves favourably to PLAY! in terms of arrangement quality. PLAY! uses competent and experienced orchestrators as well as experienced arrangers like Fabian Del Priore and Yuzo Koshiro, who definitely give a damn. I don't think Mr. Simons quite compares. :)

Note: I'm not bashing Eminence maliciously here. I'm just noting their lack of professionalism and hypocrisy.

Sorry about so called abusing ppl but lets get some things striaght.

1) I have proper correspondence with Heads of SE Copyright division that they do not authorise no matter what circumstance of the use of SE images or videos other than Square Enix only concert, or a directly involved one.

2) Composer's frustration is a well known fact in the Japanese VGM industry. And who mentioned my good friend Mitsuda and Sakimoto's name anyway? I for one never mentioned anything like that on any public forums.

3) No I don't care about what you think of me Mr Maul. There are people who likes me a lot and people who hates me a lot. Making friends are a better investment than making enemies however I am very happy with the way I am and your comments do not hurt me in any way whatsoever. I'm not the type to be afraid to voice out my own opinion for the "looks" and "relationship" bullshitting. And by the way stop pitying us... we pity you for the lack of knowledge in whats really happening out there and making these remarks -_-;

4) I don't remember Harry arranging ANY music for Eminence Symphony Orchestra. What are you talking about? Please get your facts right. We pay Nicole Brady who worked for the Sydney Olympics and Tan Dun to get our orchestral transciptions. Would you believe that the works she's done include Shadow of the Collosus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-g1ncoKihw) and Ace Combat 5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxNKE9UeRCE). Let other forum readers be the judge in whether she can transcribe and arrange or not.

I apologise in making you upset Mr Maul. I hope I can raise my professionalism a little more but I can't help thinking about my online professionalism when you told me thus in a PM to me a week or two ago:

Boy you change... perhaps you weren't like so when you were lured over to the dark side...

No matter how much confirmation you receive, we have hard proof which confirms the illegality of Play!'s actions. What Play! must've done was use the Disney images (owned by the Disney group) instead of the newly designed characters by Tetsuya Nomura. That's the only way I see around this (and would be satisfying to receive some sort of confirmation on. I also heard that Video Games Live also did this -- show only Disney images). So it's not 'false' or 'untrue' by any means whatsoever.


Your comments have certainly reflected that he is a so-called 'idiot'. And I don't really see any reason why you'd think that other than the fact that his online professionalism is obviously not to your standard. We know this. It's established. This, however, does not represent him as a person when you do not know him as a person. Your lack of sentiment towards him seems that you are not even willing to get to know him

Like I have talked with you before, I have not yet done any arrangements for Eminence. I've only examined musical score sheets and corrected some minor things in smaller arrangements. The fact that I'm not a trained musician means, theoretically, relatively little in the music world. In fact, Sakimoto was largely untrained, yet he created some of the most complex, meaningful and (in a good way) bombastic tunes found in video games. It almost reflects a close-mind in your half. I asked Dave if he could create an arrangement in comparison to the one I was making, with the hopes of either combining the two themes or using one in general. I have logs of this conversation. As for experience, well, I haven't had a lot, however I enjoy playing the piano and creating music. Is that not experience, may I ask?

True, I don't compare, but then again, I haven't arranged any pieces for Eminence so far, have I? Can't really call that a competition ;). And no matter how many times I have mentioned it, we do have competent arrangers that have impressed our audience. As Yura has said, we have had our transcriptions and arrangements praised by such composers as Kow Otani and Masashi Hamauzu. But of course, this doesn't say anything, no?

What hypocrisy? All of the things I have mentioned (and Yura) is completely true. If you can't accept that, then that's entirely your problem. But please don't go assuming that we are lying and trying to cover it up without knowing the facts. It's safe to say that's a good deal.

I'm starting to think that Meiusta and Mr. Maul are one....

Basically, I'm asking for you not to even judge us without overlooking our management first hand or our entire performances. The hate you have for us right now is rather senseless without those two prerequisites.

phew. now it even is the whole jap vgm indusry. who is it? curious curious curious. or is that a secret?
regarding mitsuda and sakimoto, recenty several photos appeard on the net where you are posing with your dear good old friends. that told a lot about who were the ppl treated badly...

that sucks indeed. god guys, what is wrong with you. instead of working togeter in a industry that hardly somebody from "outside" cares for you are false, talking behind ppl back and so on. how old are you?!!

What picture? We haven't publicised any picture of what you speak. You speak of many things without hard evidence. And a lot of assumptions.

LOL talking behind backs?

I think that's what you do Mr Maul oh I mean, Meiusta.

I've said everything in the public forums so nothing for you to worry.

You want to flame Eminence? Then make a new post. This thread is not about Eminence but rather PLAY! Eminence was just brought up as an example.

Oh for God's Sake people !!!! Play! lost ever since they started CHARGING for effin' autographs. Tommy T. and Yura are in the right here, they don't charge exhorbitant prices for the show and you get to meet the composers with your initial ticket purchase.

I don't know about most of you, but I will not pay over 100$ just to be able to shake hands with any composer.

I'm tired, but will post this one last post before retiring for good from this thread (for the sake of the moderation). Nothing said so far has denied my allegations of Yura lacking professionalism and Eminence's criticisms of PLAY! being often hypocritical, but I appreciate that there have been misunderstandings on both sides and some of my points might have led to false deductions.

So you conceded that PLAY! used Disney's images? What's the legal issue? I'm not sure about the utilisation of FF images -- they weren't used at the Stockholm concert -- but I am dubious to the presence of a breach of copyright here. If you have proof, can you provide it?

I'm aware of this, but you don't have the contacts of Jason or the eminence of PLAY! ;) I would not be surprised if SE had double-standards for PLAY! or if Jason was able to bypass copyright for what I mentioned above. Either way, the copyright issue with PLAY! does not seem significant.

Well, I apologise for making the obvious crystal clear. Given you explicitly referenced the Detroit concert, Sakimoto was bound to be a name that came up. Besides, you've PMed lots of people frivolously about who the names were, so abused trust anyway. Your picture of 'Yura, Shimomura, Mitsuda, and Sakimoto' has been shared around a lot and everybody knows of Eminence's links to these composers.

It clearly states at Wikipedia:

There is Harry's name very clearly and it's obvious Eminence wrote that, as most people don't care about the details.

I'm glad we have something in common there. But if you want Eminence to be successful, you should consider what Harry, I, and many others think about your lack of professional presentation, which is again what this has all been about.

I don't pity you. I'm frustrated with you and appalled by you. I'm not upset because of you either. A little agitated, though, obviously.

If you pity me for my 'lack of knowledge in what's really happening out there', you must pity a lot of people. I'm not omniscient, but know more than most people and near-enough all your concert attendees. I don't think it's very professional or admirable to rebuke a paranoid inference with a mass judgement of your current and prospective audiences.

Training isn't everything, but when you've had minimal experience as well, you're not going to be the next Hitoshi Sakimoto. I really hope you do continue arranging, but maybe not for Eminence. I don't know of the quality of your contributions, but it hardly reflects on the professionalism of Eminence that you and other amateurs have a significant role in the music production. I'm sure you have talent, but shouldn't experience come first?

First of all, I did write this and stand by much of what I said. I am not a PLAY! fan and have many criticisms of the concert and the production. I got terrible vibes from Jason and strongly suspect he doesn't care about game music. My issue was with you was always regards to presentation and the fact discussion of PLAY! became interlinked with Eminence.

Secondly, I did misunderstand a lot at the time of writing this and have since had discussions that show a lot of what you posted was rubbish. In addition, I've learnt that the disappointment in the performance quality at Sweden (the soloists, principally) was not paralleled by the other concerts. There were many positive things about the Sweden performance, as I mentioned clearly in my mini-review, but what you said in combination with initial disappointments at the time greatly skewed. I think people should be aware of its flaws, but I have never said it wasn't a great experience for mainstream fans or a fun event.

Thirdly, I do not appreciate you abusing trust yet again. This is what I was getting at with regards to how you flaunted what Hitoshi Sakimoto and Yasunori Mitsuda said.

Finally, I have not been brainwashed. I was initially brainwashed by you. Now I take a moderate stance that is critical of your professionalism and PLAY! Not a safe place to be, but better than the alternatives for someone as unwise and vocal as me. :p

You mean, because another person has a similar viewpoint to me, despite having different sleeping habits and a contrasting written style, we must be dupes? You're welcome to IP check me here, mods. Meiusta and Mr. Maul are not one.

Fair enough, but I have never made a judgement on your worth as a symphony orchestra. I've just used the limited evidence I have had to criticise Yura's professionalism, hypocrisy, and self-promotion (he's already admitted that 'The whole idea of posting on Gamingforce was the grab international attention, good or bad. We achieved that anyway and have no need to really post there anymore') while understandably inferring from that the standards of the management as a whole. I clearly stated that I wish Eminence well and encourage the idea of fans' orchestras. As soon as people from such orchestras start criticising other orchestras while self-promoting, though, there will be casualties on both sides. PLAY! and Eminence are two different things, each with individual merits, but both should maintain integrity, professionalism, and a desire to promote VGM in my opinion. Eminence has great potential and it distresses me to see Yura sacrificng its integrity with his preceding points. These points gives me hope:

Good luck guys, but please consider the more constructive elements of my posts. :)

Agreed. The charging sucks, but they haven't consistently charged, only in the two or three concerts with the biggest names.

A child's argument it is...

I shall not post here anymore but that doesn't mean I agree with your statements above. Happy posting about PLAY! ^^

Maul Square owns the rights to all FMVs and images, No a SINGLE Square image was used in VGL BECAUSE Square didnt let them. And PLAY! doesn't have access to it either, at least not FF, how they managed to get KH baffles me, but thye sure didn't get FF, so that image of Rinoa off their site is illegal and false advertising. If they can't get their site together properly, how do we trust the rest of their management?

And the deciet I mention is something Seraph mentioned breifly in one of his PMs to me, said it was a long story. Whatever it is, Im sure it isn't professional or ethical from Jason. And I do believe that Seraph does have contacts to Jason and Play! If Jason found ways to bypass, it was probably unethical means, be it personal contacts or some sort of bribery.

Seraph may lack experience and may have flaunted to us what the composers have said, but he didn't publicly posted it, the others did. I mean, we all gossip, and if we have things we wanna say but can't mention names in public, its kind natural to say in private messages, I'm not sayng what he did was a good thing, but he certainly didn't flaunt it in public, just mention to each of us indiviually. And unless we have proof that the composers want it to be top secret, I don't see a major issue there. Again, I'm not saying it was right, it just wasn't as horrible as people seem to think. And if the composers do have a problem, well whats done is done, and Seraph will learn to keep certain things private.

Yes Seraph needs to be a bit more professional in certain aspects, I just dont think harsh critisim was needed to get that message across. Not to mention you could have easily turn some of your previous posts into PMs and send it to him.Like another poster said here, there's a lack of sentiment. Not everyone's born as a professional, but at least Seraph here respects the composers. The lack of trust thing isn't any issue unless the composers didn't want anyone to find out at all, which is doubtful to me personally, cause if it gets out, then Play! will have to fix themselves up or else their image and rep will fall. I think its more likely that Play! will wanna keep things quiet than the composers who were disrepsected.

Just be a little more sentimental and less patronising to him, thats the reason why there seems to be conflict around this topic, next time be a little more fair and check the facts before posting, (I doubt Wiki is the best source,since ANYONE can edit the content.) There has been misunderstandings, so we should all aplologize for that at least. Seraph's a nice guy, he just needs to gain some more experience, something we all need in any profession, we don't get it right at the start, give him a chance and time.

I'm sure Play! is a great fun event for gamers, I just don't think they're sincere or even care, and why should fans pay for such insincerity? I think its a good thing that Seraph has told us the bad aspects of Behind the Scenes, even though he should have kept some aspects private. But hey, we all make mistakes and we LEARN from them, no need to go all lectuerer and harsh on him. If you feel yo got yoru money's worth from Play! , awesome, but some of us rather support a concert that actually gives a damn and not a coprate mindset bend on making money.

Anyways, we should probably get back on topic, since most of us had our say already.

tl;dr but I skimmed and split.

I think it's a waste of time chiding someone for making unprofessional statements. Every person has his or her own balance between honesty and courtesy. If they don't get the hint the first time, it's likely no mistake.

Also, this is a recreational forum (filled with illicit activities) after all. If Philip wants to say that PLAY! sucks donkey cock, then for God sakes, let the record stand! And through this, readers will have their own perceptions of him and his orchestra: some negative, some positive.

Thank you for the kind words Kairi. I'm glad you liked are arrangements. We worked very hard with the MGS composers and my friend Hideo Kojima (on the video) to get everything just right. In fact mostly all of the segments you see/hear in our show were painstakingly arranged and orchestrated by myself, Jack and the original composers. As far as the synched video production... we once again worked with the creators, designers and developers. I'm fortunate enough to have been a part of the video game industry for over 16 years now and have worked with many of the studios that appear in our show. So getting developers such as Bungie, Blizzard, Sony, Kojima, Disney, etc. to help me create the videos was fun and exciting as much as it was an honor to work with so many talented people.

Thanks again for the support! Glad ya liked the show.


Tommy

Double Post:
I don't want to get into some big internet battle here. As a composer of VGM for over 16 years it has always been my dream for there to be as many concerts and soundtracks and recognition as possible. I want EVERYONE to succeed because it is my passion and my dream.

However... What I can tell you are the basic facts that have unfortunately turned our feelings towards Play! to a very negative way. First let me say that I've known and been in touch with Thomas Boecker long before any of this. He is a dear man and has a great passion for video game music. It doesn't surprise me at all to hear of his departure from Play! and his real reasons (which I do not feel comfortable going into detail with).

There are 4 simple questions that I would like to pose to anyone reading this.


1. Why does it say on the Play! website that they are "THE FIRST AND ONLY WORLD TOUR FEATURING VISUALS WITH LIVE MUSIC FROM VIDEO GAMES PERFORMED BY FULL ORCHESTRA AND CHOIR"

Why would they lie and deceit the public like that? The truth is that Jason Michael Paul tried to come and work for us over 3 years ago (we've been working on VGL for over 5 years). After we didn't hire him is when he decided to start Dear Friends. He is very much aware of our concert and is very much aware that other concerts and tours have traveled around the world before him (we did it 6 months before his first concert). So why try to purposely pass yourself off as something you are not?


2. Ticket Prices? I don't want to go into detail, but because of our state-of-the-art lighting, special fx, synchronized video, interactive segments, pre-show festival, marketing budgets, etc... our show costs a LOT more to produce than if we were just to have a symphony play (not that there is anything at all wrong with that). Please answer me this... When we played Toronto our ticket prices were CAN$39 - $59. in the same market a month later the Play! ticket prices were CAN$65 - $155!! And you had to pay to meet the 3 composers on hand? How is this forwarding the industry exactly? We had over 20 composers AND designers at our free meet & greet after the show. I am NOT trying to somehow prove that our show is better or that you shouldn't go to their show... I'm just stating facts and providing data comparisons because I just don't understand the mentality. How can our show cost 3 times more to produce yet our ticket prices are 1/3 the cost? How can a mother or father take their family of 5 to go see a show if the ticket prices are $100+ each? Our goal from the beginning has been to spread video game music to as many people as possible... it has never been about making money for us. Our ticket prices at the Hollywood Bowl started at $1.


3. Lies to the press? This is from an interview with JMP before their Toronto show:


==============
Q: First and foremost, what spawned the creation of Play! ? With other orchestras such as Video Games Live! Doing largely the same thing, was there ever a worry that things would be too similar?

Jason: The creation of PLAY! is the result of the first Video Game Music concert series in the US that I created, Dear Friends- Music from FINAL FANTASY. I feel as if there is more potential with a show that performs music from a variety of blockbuster video games not just FINAL FANTASY. Seeing the success of Dear Friends is what spawned PLAY!.

PLAY! and the other show are completely different. For instance, in Chicago at our premiere PLAY! featured over 100 musicians on stage with a grammy award winning conductor Arnie Roth. When VGL was performed in Chicago at the same venue, after us they featured a total of 18 musicians on stage. [Ed. Note: VGL organizers dispute this claim.] This sounds more like a band rather than an orchestra. PLAY! is all about the music. It is not about anything else! We feature world class musicians and orchestras. A real symphony event not a chamber orchestra or a jam band playing to visuals from games. It is a completely live symphonic music with no playback from the games. 100% live music!

[reference: http://www.n-sider.com/articleview.php?articleid=542]
=================

Why would he blatently want to lie about us and our production like that?
We had over 60 musicians on stage for our Chicago show.

We had over 120+ musicians on stage at the Hollywood Bowl two weeks ago. We've done the Bowl twice and had the LA Phil one year and The Hollywood Bowl Orchestra this year. We even staged the biggest concert of musicians to date with over 132+ when we played at Houston with the Houston Symphony:
http://www.videogameslive.com/index.php?story=49
http://www.videogameslive.com/index.php?story=50

Does our production and world class orchestras sound like a "Jam Band" as he puts it?

If his goal is to really spread VGM music... why would he lie about our production to try and purposely hurt us?



4. Indianapolis Symphony? - JMP announced that he was doing two shows during Gen Con with the Indianapolis Symphony when we were in fact the ones doing the show. Once the Indianapolis Symphony was informed of what Play! was doing they immediately made him retract his statements and pull all information regarding Indianapolis from his website. He then sent out an e-mail to his mailing list stating that he had decided to cancel the shows because the Indianapolis Symphony didn't reach the high standards of quality that Play! is accustomed to. Wow!

Why would someone announce a show that he didn't have?



In closing, I think it is sad that people are trying to tarnish the passion and hard work that any of the other VGM concerts are trying to do. It is already a difficult and uphill battle to get the mainstream interested and to prove to the world how incredbile VGM and the entire industry is. I just have to take into question the integrity of someone who would do such things as the 4 things I mentioned above. Those are not my opinions, there are no two sides to the story... only the facts I have provided above which anyone is more than welcome to check on.

I wish concerts like Emminence the best of luck and I hope to work with them someday as well as any of the other concerts out there. I'd love to promote any of them on our website and to our mailing list. We started this a long time ago for a reason and it had nothing to do with making money or trying to hurt others.

:(


Tommy

Tommy:

Are you able to inform if Jason M. Paul is actually interested in game music? I'm aware that the main reason he is running PLAY! and has the rights to FF music is because his girlfriend is something big in Square Enix (and hence that was why you were double-crossed). Is there some link to him and game music or is he just a (bad) businessman? His transparent comment at FFSymphony indicating that he thought "Swing de Chcoobo" was the best piece of game music ever created made me laugh.

Anyway, I'm appalled to hear what you and SeRaPH have said. I do think it's important that people are made aware of the commercialism and deceit behind PLAY!, so thanks for being so courageously honest about this. It seems a pity that only those also intent on self-promotion have so far 'spoken out', though I appreciate there is also a 'humanistic' concern. It's little wonder people like Meiusta think as they do, though I do believe VGL and Eminence care about game music and their fans.

I'm not hostile towards VGL in any way. It sounds like a great event and very fun. However, I've always considered it to have unique merits from PLAY! and not a true 'symphonic game music concert' (hence 'I can't help but pity Eminence's members and feel that Western symphonic VGM concerts, Europe's aside, are temporarily doomed' was not intended to be degradatory towards VGL). Do you consistently employ use of professional symphony orchestras? Is Jack Wall as competent a conductor as Arnie Roth? Are all performances well-rehearsed ones? Is it a valid alternative to PLAY! for those who want it? Will the mainstream fan find it just as enjoyable as they might PLAY!?

Anyway, would like to publicly apologise for the naive comments that Jason hasn't deceived. In addition, having now heard one of their CDs, I'm glad to say that SeRaPH's lack of professionalism isn't synonymous with their musicality. ;) Sorry if people feel I should mind my own business; probably true, but when I was arguably misled into promoting PLAY! and attending their Sweden concert, I feel somewhat bitter. Furthermore, when I see concerts with potential like Eminence acting self-degradatory, it makes me really worry about the state of VGM concerts in general. I hear contrasting things constantly from those and no longer really know what to believe, though I still retain the belief that PLAY! is a good and fun experience for mainstream game music fans. I'll be attending next summer's Leipzig concert, but don't think I'll be bothering with anything else.

Dear Mr. Maul,

First let me answer your questions about Video Games Live...

1. "Do you employ the use of professional symphony orchestras?"
Absolutely! In fact we have employed more professional symphony orchestras than anyone else who has ever done this. As stated above we launched our show with over 120+ musicians at the Hollywood Bowl with the Los Angeles Philharmonic. We came back this year to the Bowl with 120+ from the Hollywood Bowl Orchestra. We had over 130+ on stage with the prestigeous Houston Symphony. We played two nights with the Indianapolis Symphony, we played San Jose with the Symphony Silcon Valley (same orchestra that played the Dear Friends concert in San Francisco). Our next show in Brazil is with one of the best orchestras in South America the Petrobras Sinfonica (http://www.petrobrasinfonica.com.br/). We just announced new dates in January with the Edmonton Symphony & Mesa Symphony.

The real facts are that Play! tells people they use the best orchestras but in reality sometimes they use Arnie Roths company to hire contract musicians and then just puts a fancy name on them. How do we know this? Because Arnie Roth was working for Video Games Live before Play! (and in between Dear Friends). Not that there is anything wrong with using contract union musicians. If a particular symphony isn't available we will do the same thing. Our shows in Philadelphia & Toronto were done like this. We just don't make up fancy names or try to pass them off as something they aren't. Play! does use established symphonies as well. I'm not trying to take away anything from what they are doing. They used the Detroit Symphony, Arnie's own Chicagoland Pops, the National Symphony in Virgina, etc. But not ALL of thier concerts are done this way and that is fine. But what's appauling is when he constantly tries to trash us in the media about this when we have used more pro symphonies and he does the same contracting as we do sometimes?!?!

The bigger question is... Why would you think that we don't use professional orchestras? Ask yourself where you got this piece of information and who it came from. Now look at the facts I've presented before you. The fact that you may feel less of us and had to ask these questions of me honestly makes me feel sad. The false propaganda he has spread has actually influenced you to ask these questions. Well, I'm just glad you asked I guess. And please remember and keep in mind that I'm NOT here to try and put people down. This is all very uncomfortable for me... but if I am forced to defend our show with the facts because of what he has stated about that. I must do it for the good of our show.


2. "Is Jack Wall as competent a conductor as Arnie Roth?" Jack Wall has been conducted some of the finest orchestras in the world for over a decade. Not only in live performances but in many studio situations as well. Jack is a video game composer who knows the content and knows video games. He plays them, he is passionate about them and he is a brilliant conductor. Every orchestra we have played with has applauded Jack's abilities both in e-mails and in the media after our shows. Jack composed and conducted all the scores for the award winning Myst III & Myst IV games. His credentials and credits are unmatched in terms of what he has accomplished as a composer and conductor in the video game industry.

The other major challenge which Jack has to contend with during a show is the fact that he is also conducting to a click track system (which is always very difficult and takes a special kind and very talented conductor to pull off). This is how we automate and synchronize our lights, special fx and video. No other game concert has EVER done this because it is expensive and very difficult. We are proud to be able to offer this addition to our show experience.


3. "Are all performances well-rehearsed ones?" Why of course! We would cut a piece of music out of the show before not being 100% happy with the rehearsal. Feel free to read any of our reviews that have ever come out. Has there been pieces that were performed live that we weren't 100% happy with? Of course! We are perfectionists and hope that everything is always perfect... but these are live performances which is what makes them all so special. I would say that I'm usually happy 97% of the time. We rehearse with the orchestra anywhere from 3 hours to 20 hours!! It all depends on the skill level of each symphony. They all vary and the concert masters are always honest with the level of their team.


4. "It sounds like a great event and very fun. However, I've always considered it to have unique merits from PLAY! and not a true 'symphonic game music concert".

Yes! We are very unique in what we do. We combine the excitement and energy of a rock concert mixed with the power and emotion of a symphony orchestra combined together by the technology, interactivity, stunning visuals and fun that only video games can provide. This is not to say that the way others do it is wrong... of course it isn't. We're just unique and different and feel that because of our production we appeal to a much wider audience and demographic overall. More non-gamers come to our show not knowing what to expect and walk away with a new understanding and respect of video games. This is due in part not just because of the amazing music... but they see the incredible video and the stories they tell, they are facinated by the synchronized lighting and enthralled by the special fx. They are completely entertained by the interactive segments in our show when people come up on stage and play the game while the orchestra is playing and changing the score in real-time. They see the excitement and passion of the audience during the pre-show festival with things like the costume contest and gaming competitions.

I'm not sure I understand why you would think we are not a "true symphonic game music concert"... could you please explain your meaning in more detail? We do exactly what the others are doing (for the most part) with the addition of things like synchronized lights and video.

Again let me state clearly that anyone else who does it differently is no less or more than we are... just different. I LOVE the fact that VGM has gotten so popular that it's offering the audiences different choices and options. Heck! I say to everyone... PLEASE GO TO ALL OF THEM!! SUPPORT EVERYONE!! But it is difficult support "some" concerts when it seems that they are only interested in overcharging their fans and trash talking others in the media.

:(



I am a very open and honest person and will answer any questions that are posed to me on this matter... but I must tell everyone that it makes me feel very uncomfortable to talk about these things in this manner. We focus on OUR show and not on others. As fans of the medium we applaud such things as Eminence and hope they are very successful now and in the future. We want as much attention on video game music as possible!! But if I am forced to answer questions like the ones above... I unfortunately must do it. If I didn't then my silence could be taken as if I'm trying to hide something... which I am not. I'd personally rather not answer any more questions regarding this. I want all of this untrue negative publicity thrown at us by them to stop. I wonder if this was one of the reasons why such a nice guy like Thomas Boecker decided to leave Play?

What would people here recommend we do? What would you do if you were in our situation?

Let me leave you with another interview quote from the national newspaper Washington Post in which they did a story on video game music concerts...


==================================

Tallarico said. "Video games are all about visuals; they're all about excitement; they're all about having fun."

Paul, for his part, complains that "Video Games Live" has hurt his business, and he finds the competition's approach annoying. "My whole goal is to keep the arts alive in a way that is classy," he said.

"We were on the verge of taking over the market," Paul said. "But because of the confusion they caused in the marketplace, I've had to scale back my vision. I can't afford a cancellation."

=====================================

Interesting quote considering we've been around 5 years and we've been playing our shows a full year before his. "Verge of taking over the market?" Why would anyone want to take over the market?? Aren't we only interested in spreading video game music as an art-form? Why would someone want to seemingly CRUSH the competition? Does this sound like someone interested in spreading video game music or just making money?

Sorry we "annoy" you so much Mr. Paul. Unfortunately you will either have to deal with your demons or leave the video game concert business altogether because as video game composers and people who are actually in the industry... this is our life mission and we are here to stay forever.



Tommy

Heh. Then again why I never wish for the things I love to become huge commercial successes and come out of their relative obscurity. You know it's always the greedy buck makers who win over the genuinely passionate creators.

Don't worry... not in this instance!

:)

By the end of this year we would have played in front of over 55,000 people so far. No one has come close to doing those kind of numbers. We are not going anywhere. Even when our tour got cancelled by Clear Channel last year we picked ourselves up and started planning new shows on our own again from scratch. Now we're bigger and better than ever and are doing it on our own with our own terms. We're here to stay.


Tommy

Ah good. Thanks for taking away a bit of my bitterness, I guess. =p

I think those who're in the position to pay more than $100 for going to a concert and another $50 for meeting a few composers may as well can, as long as they don't feel ripped off.
While I personally don't give a shit whether or not Play used Disney material illegaly, I'd definitely consider the satisfaction of the composers an important aspect for chosing which concert to attend to. But again, I think VGL and Play aren't alternatives to each other, I mean, most people can go to BOTH and get the FULL game music experience.

Luckily, Thomas Böcker's GC concerts don't have those problems, the tickets are cheap and the concert offers a great selection of premieres and special guests. :D Definitely attending this next year.

Long time lurker of these threads, little-time poster. But after reading these threads, it's compelled me to compliment a few people.

Mr. Maul, I wish I had more time to devote to forums because I'd love to debate with you :).

Seraph, hearing of Eminence made my interest in Game Music rise once again. Almost makes me want to Study Abroad in Australia so I might get a chance to hear one of your concerts.

And Tommy, you've gained my utmost respect. As a soon-to-be Graduate of a Viola Performance and Composition Undergrad degree (with high interests in making game music accessable) - I'm glad that there is someone out there in the industry with a level-head and keen sense of humor. I'm now sad that I missed the Chicago concert when it came by (due to a vacation), since that's only a 4-hour drive, but I will be eagerly anticipating a stop by this area whenever a new tour schedule is released!

Tommy,

Thanks for your response. It's clear that there are a lot of misconceptions about VGL going about due to propaganda etc. and I'm glad you were able to clear them up.

The true 'symphonic game music concert' bit came from hearing of a lack of performers on stage and how VGL utilised synth principally on some occasions. Furthermore, with VGL's emphasis on audience participation, rock concert features, and an overall fun image, I wasn't sure what the standard of the performances were like to complement this. I'm not sure how musically mature VGL's arrangements are, but it's clear you use competent orchestrators and an experienced conductor. I might be going to the London VGL performance, so soon I should be able to see for myself.

I apologise for making you feel uncomfortable. The questions were inspired by curiosity and a need to clarify confusion that to be accusational or intimidating. It's my intention to be open and honest, not offensive, though when there is contrasting views coming from all parties -- largely from people intent on self-promotion -- I have little idea what to think other than it has become one big mess. Maybe PLAY! is the only enemy in this, though I still feel Seraph acted unprofessionally and find it regrettable that you and Jason are clearly at war (though you seem to have good reason).

Finally, it's admirable that, despite everything, you've not sacrificed your integrity by degrading PLAY! beyond in a 'political' sense. I'm really pleased you stated 'I LOVE the fact that VGM has gotten so popular that it's offering the audiences different choices and options. Heck! I say to everyone... PLEASE GO TO ALL OF THEM!! SUPPORT EVERYONE!!'. It's in this point that you appear to be considering all audiences and VGM in general. I have much much respect that you and Thomas are both able to do this, but it's a shame Jason and Seraph still can't.

Tetre,

Is that one of your compliments? :p

'he gave his perspective on the topic'. i have a hard time beliving that everything he said MUST be right suddenly. no offense, t. t., i would not trust jason michel paul or whoevr. both of you are too much into promoting your own thign. t. t. obviously is very very clever in doing so.

it is not regrettabel, it should put both in shame because they are adults and no children anymore.

Well, I'm inclined to agree to an extent. If what Tommy says is entirely accurate, I still don't understand why I've heard reports from many people independent from PLAY! stating that VGL isn't equivalent a symphonic concert in terms of performance quality and use of live instruments (i.e. lots of synth use, some shoddy performances, etc.). However, most of his points seemed reasonable.

Maybe so. As I've stated, everyone is self-promoting and putting their own spin on things, making the situation rather terrible right now. Tommy has made great contributions to VGM, though, and is a talented and passionate musician, so I hold him in greater esteem that Jason. Furthermore, I'm glad he's willing to promote everyone and think that is largely sincere, even though there's likely a double agenda as well.

It's regrettable for the world of game music. I don't have that much sympathy for the individuals, though.

By the way, I apologise for unintentionally offending all of the four major producers (Tommy T, Thomas Boecker, Hiroaki Yura, and Jason M. Paul) in the space of a week. I'm outspoken, critical, and stupid, but still ultimately love VGM and feel all of you make constructive contributions to it in some way. It's just a shame pretty much everyone clouds the truth with a desire for self-promotion and money. This competition is terrible.

Thanks for the compliment. We'll be back in your area in 2007. Plans are already being made.

Thanks!


Tommy








Double Post:

Thanks for the response Mr. Maul. I can understand why you would mistakingly think and feel the way you do in regards to a "true symphonic" experience. The lies that Mr. Paul has spoken about us is of course (as usual) completely untrue and should be disregarded as nothing more than trying to give us a bad name. Yes, during 5 segments of Video Games Live we use a synth because that is exactly what the composers used originally when they composed the pieces! Tron, Metal Gear Solid, Halo, Beyond Good & Evil and Myst are the songs. But the synths are used in conjunction with the orchestra... not by themselves as Mr. Paul has falsely claimed in interviews.

If you read the VGL thread on these forums a poster just recently commented on how much better she enjoyed our performance of Metal Gear Solid as opposed to Play! That's because it would be difficult to recreate the original recording without the use of electronic drums, synths, etc. Many people have said the same exact thing about their Halo performance when compared to ours. Again... I think it's cool that the pieces are being performed and translated in different ways! The difference is that you'll never hear me say... "WE DO IT BETTER!! WE'RE RIGHT AND THEY SUCK!! THEY'RE UNPROFESSIONAL LOSERS AND FAILURES WHO ARE STEALING MY MARKET SHARE THAT IS RIGHTFULLY MINE!" Some may find the way we do things to be cool because we try to recreate the piece the way it was intentional played. Others may find it interesting to hear it completely symphonically with no electronics. Cool!! I personally prefer the way we do it which is why we do it that way. I'm not going to try and tear down Play! because they play a more acoustic version. Why would I? How is that helping to further VGM to the masses?? Too bad the Play! folks don't follow the same mentality.

:(

Feel free to check out any of the 130+ videos of our show that you'll find on YouTube. Here's one of my favorites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VTnNDCOWPU (although the audio on the camera/capture was off)


Tommy






Double Post:

Please understand that my intention was NOT to promote Video Games Live in this discussion and I don't feel I have done so. My intention was to DEFEND the lies and misinformation that Play! has spread.

I listed FACTS and not opinions regarding this matter. There shouldn't be any kind of discussion as to why you should or shouldn't believe me. Remember the points I made...

1. Why does he lie on the front page of his site? Not my opinion... FACT.

2. Why does he lie about the size of our show? Not my opinion... FACT.

3. Why are his ticket prices so high when clearly they don't need to be. Not my opinion... FACT.

4. Why did he announce on his website that he was playing with the Indianapolis Symphony? Not my opinion... FACT.


It's not a question of believing me or not... It's just a question of clicking on those links I provided and making a descision based on what Play! themselves have said. I don't think that should be constrewed as me being a "double agent" or "clever marketing genius"... I'm just trying to defend all of the hard work & passion that people like ourselves, Emminence & Thomas Boecker put into promoting VGM and how easily Play! tries to tear it down because they unfairly view everyone else as competition and they want to "crush" and "dominate" us all.

Good luck! He's got a LONG way to go!! Hope he's in for the long haul cause we'll be doing this and promoting VGM for the rest of our lives as I have done for the past 16+ years.


Tommy

Tommy,

Thanks for the reply.

The explanation of the synth issue is appreciated. It makes me feel much more about VGL as a symphonic experience. I'm amazed about the misinformation going around. I'll be sure to check out YouTube to hear for myself.

As I've previously said, I might be going to VGL in London (really hope so), though I'm not sure if it'll clash with the biggest university of the year. I'd really like to experience it and will hopefully like it. Even if I don't, at least I'll be less naive and confused. :p

I still find it regrettable all this surfaced in a public forum that has a lot of big personalities and plenty of piracy (no offence to Gamingforce). I truly believe there could have been a better way for you to clear up all the misinformation or for the truth about Jason to get out. All this fighting between PLAY!, Eminence, and VGL surely compromises a lot of people (fans, composers, and performers alike) and certainly doesn't do the image of VGM much good. However, I agree that the actions of Jason have often been unacceptable and am glad to have been made aware of them. It's just a shame that nobody is going to come out of this affair too well.

Anyway, I still support you, Tommy, and VGL, though am not abandoning support for anyone. I still think PLAY!, Leipzig, VGL, and Eminence offer unique things to the VGM world and, while it's easy and tempting to adopt Meiusta's viewpoint, I'll only do this with regards to the politics. Producers appear to be nasty people hell-bent on deceit and self-promotion (though I'm sure a few are lovely underneath), but at least you create good music. :D

Yo!,

If you end up coming to the London show please let me know so we can meet up.

I honestly don't believe in my heart that the VGM image is going to be hurt by any of this. True passion and love for what people do will win out in the end and come across in each and every performance. Yes, it's a shame that certain people feel the need to try and tarnish others... but putting on performances in front of tens of thousands of people each year has a much greater impact than someone trash talking on an internet forum or some website interview.

The music, show, audience and performance is what really matters. We feel very proud and confident that the show we have put together is special, unique and very enjoyable for a mass audience as well as the hardcore fans. At the end of the day... if people enjoy it... that's all that matters. Ultimately, what one person says negatively about the rest of us will have no bearing on the success of each individual producer/show.

Thanks again for keeping an open mind and please make sure to let me know if you'll be attending the London event.


Tommy

Yes :)
I'm certain you're right. I think most people who are deep enough into their live VGM music experience to care about things of this scope, know that their love for VGM won't die, no matter what kind of off-the-mark things are going on in the production. Someone who appreciates beauty (in art) will always be able to follow their passion, despite what others may believe.

Just want to say there is no "fight" between Eminence and PLAY!

Quick question about Eminence: Is there any concert DVD to buy? I couldn't find any info about it.

Sorry for the kinda offtopic post.

There is no concert DVDs out by Eminence at the current time

Just wanna say to Tommy that I thank him for his responses, I wanted to talk to you at the VGL LA Hollywood Bowl meet and greet, but I got shy...

And as someone who has gone to VGL, I can clairify that the majoirity of the show was symphonic, with some rock and synth thrown in there, but at least 85% symphonic.

Also a little note that it is very possible to creat a MGS symphonica arrangement with no synths or electronics, and still be better than Play!'s version. Starting the theme with just strings is like listening to some string quartet piece for a while and its NOT a good way to start a theme like MGS. I;m no arranger, but I listen to enough VGM remixes and other music to know what not to do with certain themes. If Play! had actually did a better job with the arrangments, Ill probnably go despite the dark stuff going behind the curtains. They didn't and that lack of either talent or actual effort proves that its not worht my money or time.

And the way they butchered KH1 and 2 suite? Dear god, they barely did any work, and the cut and past job with March Caprice inserted in the middle was awful, as a huge fan of KH this pisses me off.And Swing De Chocobo is an extended version of the FFX chocobo theme. Original arrangement my foot. The only reason people will go its if they don't get other concerts like VLG there, or they're desperate to hear a live version of their favourite game pieces, which means Play! still has plenty of market sadly. Not to mention they have a trump card called "Square Enix". And we all know how many FF fanboys there are.

Its sad to hear the deciet that went on at Play!, despite temptations to see it (They DO have alot of licence to alot of franchise, my boyfriend was little disappointed when VGL changed the program and Castlevania was cut, and my god if I had heard Akira played SH2...), I rather not support it, and since my boyfriend and his friends, as well as I, are trying to get into the game industry, we at least know what to stay clear of now.

Thanks for the support Kairi! Glad ya liked the show. Just to clarify... we haven't cut Castlevania out of our show... we just didn't play it at the Bowl again this year to make room for some of the new stuff like Halo 3, Civilization IV, Space Invaders, LucasArts guys, etc.

We always try to mix it up especially when we return to the same place twice. It's tough cause there is so much great stuff out there! We also didn't play EverQuest II & Beyond Good & Evil at this years Bowl show.

The next couple of shows we're doing in Brazil will have Castlevania.

Thanks again for the kind words and support! Wish you would have come up and said hi. Next time!


Tommy

Ah I see, well I doubt we can go to the Brazil ones, maybe the one next time that's in LA will have Castlevania again, or perhaps in a city that close to LA. He also loved the Beyond Good and Evil game, so he was little bummed that it was shifted around as well. But we love the rest of the show, and ending it with Halo 3 with the original composers and guitar performer and the voice of Cortana was awesome. I'm not a Halo fan and even I got a kick out of it.

And having David Hayter introducing the concert was genius. :D Advantages of a VG show in LA huh?

Thanks for replying!

Hahahahahaa!! Yeah!! And the creator of Tron too!!

David Hayter and his wife had such a good time that he recorded the intro of Snake introducing me so we can play it at all our shows!!

He's a super cool guy!!!


Tommy

Wow, I wasn't aware of all of this and I was quite surprised to learn about all of this on GFF instead of other more "official" sites.

I have to say that I was among the ones who paid 140$ to see the show in Toronto. Not only that, it was an 8-hour drive from my city and I had to stay at a hotel to be able to watch the show. It was quite an expensive trip. And I am surprised to hear that with all this 140$, he wasn't able to pay for the composers plane tickets, they hired a kids choir, they made people pay to have authographs...but I think the worst thing was in fact that crappy Dear Friends CD which was a best off but, with synth....I would have expected an orchestral music CD...oh well...

The show was great (as I like orchestral VGM), I wasn't deceived by it but now that I know all of this, it's kind of upsetting.

So hopefully I'll get my hands on good seats for VGL in Montreal (which makes it only a 2 1/2 hour drive from my city). And from what I read, VGL is more affordable compared to Play!.

So any dates for VGL in Montreal yet?

Hi!,

Our possible date for Montreal is in the fall. We are just figuring out the best venue and location to have the event. What would be your suggestion?

We're also going to do Toronto again in 2007.


Tommy

Hmm well, the OSM (Montreal Symphonic Orchestra) plays at this place:

http://www.pda.qc.ca/nos-salles/wilfrid-pelletier.prod.en.html

So if you want to go classy, that's the place. Only, it might be expensive...cause there's almost 3000 seats.

This other scene (in the same complex) might be what you need though: http://www.pda.qc.ca/nos-salles/thea...e.prod.en.html (around 1500 seats)

Another suggestion might be this place (though it is less fancy than the previous ones): http://www.theatreoutremont.ca/Outre...vation_en.aspx (Around 500 seats available)

I really don't know what your budget is but if the Montreal Metropolitan Orchestra (not the OSM, it's a smaller orchestra but still well known here) can afford it for 5 concerts a year, I would go with the first or second option.

Feel free to contact me for any questions. I'll gladly help so I can listen to live game music near my city! :)