Society's unwritten rules.
 

Uh-oh, I'm getting nightly philosophic. :edgartpg:

Do you sometimes stop and think of the so called unwritten rules in our society? What I mean is like, how you are supposed to shake hands when you meet someone. How you are supposed to dress to be popular.

I've always disliked this rule of alhocol is some sort of.. mandatory social activity #1. So I'm boring just bacause I don't want to come along and drink? Fine.

Do you follow these rules like a slave? Maybe you rebel against it, or maybe you don't give a shit about it. Are there huge differences between these rules in different cultures?

Share your opinions.

Meh. I think many of the unwritten rules are proper things to do. Such as shaking hands, and type of dress. But you also have to think, that its a part of the culture of Western Society. Things are different with different societies, and as a result, share different unwritten rules.

wait...these things actually exist? I thought they were just scary things adults tell their children so that they'd behave better in public. I mean, I really don't know of any or maybe I've just never thought about it before...I keep myself fully clothed when I have visitors, so that must count for something

One of the managers at my place of work mentioned that he found it really off-putting if someone didn't give a firm handshake. Or if they didn't put their hand all the way forward so that the webs between thumb and forefinger met. In which case, shaking improperly might cost you a job. =(

Yea, I found the hand shaking deal a bit dodgy. I never know what these people are going to do. I'm used to one swift motion of up and down but these guys want to take it a step further and add 3 more steps to it. Awkward the first time but it gets better once you know who does what.

Also, I just met this girl last Friday. I didn't know her at all and she gave me a hug before she left. I was gonna shake her hand too but she leaned in first.

Oh, and is it true about how sidewalk walking is supposed to imitate traffic in the sense that there are "lanes" depending on which way you're going? I've been told this but rarely ever witness it.

Yeah, the sidewalk thing is pretty true there. Same thing when entering and exiting buildings. I know a building on campus here that has complete separate doors for going in and out, and if some goes in the out, everyone stares them down... Besides, the entrances can only fit one way traffic on each side. You can't move over to allow two way traffic.

I hate people that don't obey the "lanes" on a sidewalk. When people are walking side by side and taking up the whole sidewalk, how am I supposed to move by them? What, should I move into the street and get run over by a car? I hate people that don't move.

My rabbi taught me the "proper" handshake technique just prior to my Bar Mitzvah. First, he said, make sure you give them a firm, yet not too firm grip. Next, be sure to look the person in the eye and smile. Last, a quick 'up and down' will usually suffice.

I cringe repulsively when someone gives me a limp unenthusiastic handshake. It just doesn't feel right to be so apathetic. I've always associated a firm handshake with "goodwill", and not firm, but far from limp handshake to be "nice to meet you (but I'm not really as interested as I should be)". I lose respect instantly if I'm shaking hands with jello.

Walking on the sidewalk reminds me of my walking thread from a while back. It always annoys me that people won't walk on the right side of the sidewalk and almost appear to want to intentionally bump you and force you to decide.

I also do get annoyed when people go through the "in" (at the moment) door and one person wants to "go against the flow" or wait it out. There are usually two doors for a reason, this being one of them.

Sometimes people really like to give overly firm handshakes, and that is as annoying as when people give limp ones. Usually, when people grab too hard, it's because our hands have not fully met yet, and I'm not ready to start shaking, and then I'm sure my hand feels like pudding to them. When shaking hands, a person's hand muscles should have some degree of movement, since the whole hand is moving, and it is probably required for comfort adjustments.

I've definitely noticed the sidewalk lane thing. In grocery stores, lots of people completely ignore those laws, which you would think would appear more obvious since they are maneuvering carts around.

Oh man, I hate that. It's even worse when there's a group taking up the whole sidewalk and they refuse to bunch up so you can get by.

Isn't there a rule about impeding traffic, for that matter? In the past month I've encountered way too many people just standing in front of a door or in the middle of hall just chatting it up. Where do people get off doing this?

I'm thinking a lot of these unwritten rules should be written...

I'm lazy, but there was an excellent Journal Entry where the Guy Rules for the Bathroom was codified into a PDF (With Screenshot Goodness), of the rules guys always (At least hopefully) follow when in a restroom.

Another one I can think of is letting a car segue into a lane if the one the car is in is becoming closed (Simple term for it, forgot), I mention this because some dick was all almost crashing into my carpool's car near my house where a lane was restricted to one lane, and the fag was all trying not to let us in, even though my carpool's driver had the blinker on. Then the idiot has the nerve to honk his horn when he brakes. OH well, fuck em'.

Double Post:
Oh, forgot to mention: Apparently if you don't want to go to the Club, you're like the worst person ever.

funny thing is, every time I've WANTED to go to the Club, shit has come up and so plans have averted to any activity OTHER than 'The Club'.

Girls don't release gas in front of other people. Men do it. Women aren't allowed to do it.

I've never heard a girl release gas before, besides my little sisters.

Speaking of handshakes, I hate it when people start the motion but don't actually follow through. They'll stick their hand out and I'll reach to clasp it, and then they'll do a REALLY COOL pull-away thing or slap or something, except I'll be expecting a shake so I grab their hand. They're trying to pull away and I'm just left randomly holding on, which is extremely awkward.

Oh yeah, like a bunch of people won't insist how they're either rebels or don't care. Admitting you're a conformist is also a social faux-pas, you know.

The idea is you go out with your friends in a rambunctious atmosphere. You can order soft drinks at a bar too!

Edit: I think I follow the rules of the handshake okay but it's not like I ever asked or anything. I'm basically a handshake newbie. I need to learn how to shake hands properly in a relaxed, confident environment. Are there handshaking seminars I can attend? Maybe get a handshaking guru? I NEED TRAINING

There are a lot of double standards to comment on. Far too many.

SCT?
 

Yeah, I do stop and think about such things occasionally. According to one of my lecturers, such unwritten rules of society goes by the name of the Social Contract Theory. Not sure if there are books on this subject but it'll sure be helpful if there were some.

Yeah, that IS really crappy. I've been a victim of that several times though it happens much less nowadays. Come to think of it its more like the guys doing the pull away thing thats uncool - at least in , for a lack of a better phrase, more cultivated company.

The handshake thing I get, no matter how apathetic you may be, it's just common courtesy to have some life in your handshake.

Couple months back, I was ordering my food (obviously at a restaurant) and got funny looks from everyone at the table and the waiter because I didn't let the ladies order first...first time in 18 years I've ever heard that unwritten rule. Next time I waited for my sister to order and got yelled at by my folks to hurry up and order my food.

Then I figured out this method of actually *waiting* for the waiter to look at you, and I haven't had any problems.

i am a big rebel about these things, sometimes I just do stuff on purpose to be different. I remember my high-school grad, all the girls where weaing the slim figure shaping dresses, so I go a wear a victorian style dress... I like those kind anyway. I was amusing bcause I am the smallest girl in class and all the fat chicks wanted to wear the figure shaped dresses, they always obey the rules of the current style no matter how bad it looks.

You're supposed to let ladies order first, walk through doors first, etc. You're also supposed to give up your seat to a lady in a crowded waiting room or train. Didn't your parents teach you any manners?

I have only one thing to say in this thread: ELEVATOR ETIQUETTE. When did it become OK to stand with your back toward the elevator doors or strike up a conversation with complete strangers in an elevator? Will is right - somebody needs to write these rules down somewhere.

Ladies get by with way too much. The other shit is common sense...but i've NEVER heard about the ordering thing, from my parents, friends, relatives, whatever.

Guess im hanging out with a bunch of dicks.:doh:

Same here.
Also I've never heard about giving up your seat on a train for a girl, only for elders and other people that ovbiously gets by better by sitting down.

Maybe it's a southern US thing, but you two would never get a second date with any of the girls I know.

I don't know Alice. I've been in situations with family and friends where the waiter is waiting for an order, and everyone's just looking at each other waiting for someone else to go first. You say "go ahead" and they think it's polite to be demure and say "ono u." It's annoying as all hell. =(

Also, back to handshakes. I don't give women a firm handshake. It just feels wrong, I mean, most of the time their hands feel so thin and delicate, gotta be gentle. Is that bad?

As a woman with small hands, I appreciate it when people are gentle, yet I do know the importance of a firm handshake as well. It's a hard balance sometimes to get it right between genders, but I try.

I also agree that the drinking rule is a bit obnoxious. Going out and having some drinks while being social with friends doesn't bother me. Going out to get drunk and/or to laugh at drunk people throwing up does. Whatever floats your boat I guess, just count me out of the latter.

The drinking thing does bother me, actually. I do drink, heavily I might add, but only on vacation. During school I work hard and train harder; there's no room for alcohol. In college it seems like people just get tanked on the weekend, and the kids that don't aren't doing anything interesting. Sure, you can just order a soda, but drunk people really aren't that entertaining when you're tired and dead sober.

Also, before you sit down at a dinner table, you're supposed to stand behind your chair until all the ladies sit down. (You'd be surprised how much a girl's parents love it when you pull this one first time over for dinner.) It's proper to walk on a girl's right side about a half-step behind them, unless of course they're on the street side. And of course, you should always let ladies go first at just about everything. Except for going down stairs or getting off a bus. You should go first so you can turn around in case she looses footing.

As for shaking hands with guys or girls... Guys should give a firm handshake. None of this clammy fish limp wristed crap. Neither should they give you the, "Check out how tough I am buddy" iron death grip. As for shaking hands with girls; a guy should never offer his hand to a girl. If she offers her hand, you meet her grip with the same firmness.

I think I can deal with that. If me ordering first was the sole factor in getting a second date (considering I follow all the other "unwritten" rules) that's one girl I *don't* want to get to know better.

Here's something: Not ordering a meal with a group of friends (although more importantly a dish of some sort should be ordered if its formal, right) can be off setting for some people I've noticed. I think I understand the logic behind this, like it's weird to have people watch you eat who aren't eating, just like people are kind of inclinced to finish their meals at the same time, as a kind of curteousy. Sometimes I go to Perkins with some buddies and I'm not that hungry and just decide to get a coffee and that's it. The waiter sometimes gives me a short pause or something. Although, Perkins (around here) has become a pretty social eating / hanging place for the people I associate with. So...

Man, I hate when I shake hands with a dude I just meet and he crushes my hand... yeah way to make me feel good. When I shake hands I want to meet the person in a shaking hands equillibrium if you will... I find it imperative to find a common ground in a hand shake. If I shake hands with a girl and she doesn't have much of a firm grip, I'll shake her hand with as much er, light elegance, as she gives me. Which I really don't mind at all, if it's a girl that is. A guy with a nonchalant handshake is off-putting.

Enthusiastic Handshakes
 

Hmmm, talking about handshakes does anyone know when its appropriate to give those enthusiastic handshakes with 2 hands like those the conductor and the soloist gives each after after a concerto performance? I think its ok when meeting up with a really good friend who you've not seen in ages. Any other instances where kind of enthusiastic shake is appropriate?

Anytime I shake hands, which is very rarely, I find myself giving the two-hand handshake. Basically, if I like you enough to touch you, I'm going to either hug you, grab both of your hands with my hands, or grab one hand with both of my hands. I don't shake it, though. I just sort of hold it...I think.

I do HATE it when men (Army guys in particular seem to do this a lot) find it necessary to squeeze the everloving shit out of my hand. Look, fucktard. I'm not a guy. You don't have to assert your dominance over me by breaking every bone in my hand.

The problem with giving up your seat or opening doors for girls for me has always been this: do they really want me to? I always do, it's how I was raised and just habit now, but I think about that every time. I'm always worried that since chivalry is apparently dead that I'm going to come off like a creep or like I'm hitting on them. I'm probably over-thinking it, since I've never even gotten a dirty look, but maybe that sort of thing is what keeps a lot of guys from being polite.

I open and hold doors for anyone, regardless of male or female. Though I do it more so often for the elderly.

The bus, I give my seat for those who seem that can't make it far enough to go to the back or some other seat. Such as elderly, people with disabilities, people with kids and etc.

About the dinning room manners.

I was told it was proper for all the women to order first of course, and to recieve thier food first(When I used to be a Waiter), refills and etc.

That if you have to help seat anyone, elderly first, then the younger ones and you walk them to thier seat, pull it out let them sit down and push them in.

Atleast that is how my section of Wisconsin does it.

I think some girls would get mad about a man offering his seat to her or holding a door for her. Sass, for example, would probably deck you. But I think most wouldn't, and isn't it best to err on the side of politeness?

I hate to think that chivalry is dead. I'm now officially on a quest to bring chivalry back one GFF member at a time.

Yeah but you could still ask or atleast try and if they don't want to then you politely move aside unless for some reason you get decked.

When I was dating a southern belle, she expected me to do everything Alice has mentioned. When I was dating a flower girl, she kind of expected me to do everything first, and would follow through. Different regions around the world, or as close as neighbors, all share their own values. My German lady friends shake my hand better than most men, my French lady friends expect me to kiss their hand when I greet them, and my American lady friends expect me to hug them. My fella friends are either a firm grip handshake with a stare in to the eyes, or I grab the dude's hand, put it against my chest, and put my other arm around them (the opposite does the same), depending on how close you are to me.

The few unspoken rules that I follow are...

Never fart in an enclosed area. Elevators and airplanes are a definitive no-no.

If someone else cooks for you, do not insult the dish. You don't have to compliment it, you don't have to eat it, but never say "this food sucks". It's just awfully disrespectful.

Two words. Cock block. Never do it, unless it's your sister or daughter you're looking out for.

I doubt anyone would insult a dish, just say maybe you should have done... -insert constructive stuff.-

That's the same thing as insulting it. When someone cooks for you, do NOT give them any "constructive criticism" or suggest how they might do it differently next time.

Food is a very delicate issue. Some people I know take offense if you even add salt to your food when you're eating it. The best thing you can do is to just tell the person who cooked it that it's delicious and eat it.

Yea, I get that. Friends would always go to Denny's for some reason or another and I find myself lacking the urge to fork over cash every single time. Sometimes I just order a hot chocolate or nothing at all and I used to get these weird stares from my friends and the waiter but they've apparently gotten use to the fact that I hardly ever eat around them.

Oh, speaking of food. I know it's customary to offer a guest food, or at least with the Filipinos it is. But they seriously insist and it's hard to turn them down. They seem to take it as a personal insult if you don't indulge them.

I've noticed that too. When at someone else's house, the mother constantly offers me food. If I just ate, it doesn't matter. "Do you want chips? How about watermelon? Cookies? Cake? Ice cream? Turkey?" It makes me feel like Hansel at the witch's house. :(

Seinfeld has runied an entire generation.

I remember I had a friend some years ago, and I once visited his house just after lunch. As soon as I got in, his mom came out and asked me if I wanted any food, I said No thanks, but thank you for asking. She kept insisting some times, and I explained I just had lunch and so. It's really nice of them showing hospitality, but I felt so bad for saying no to her that time :)

In my family we always ask if a guest is hungry or wants something to drink. No big deal.

The bigger issue is when we go out for dinner and everyone argues over who pays the bill. Not trying to pass off the bill, but actually, "We'll get the bill." "No, we're taking you out." "Can we at least get the tip?" I still can't figure that one out, I wish there was some rule for it.

Commenting on an earlier post, I just learned recently that women are supposed to offer their hands first for shaking hands. I was going to someplace for a possible interview and my mom was like, "The lady is supposed to offer her hand first." and I was like, "What lady?" Silly me!

Yeah but normally if I do, my friends or family can tell my the gesture I make like I'll be slow at eating(Cause normally I'm a quick chewer/eater.) or something else. Hell even if I wasn't and I lied about it, they would probaly notice it anyway. I suck at lying. So either I might as well tell my friends and family the truth anyway. Sadly it was how I raised to. If you tell the truth in constructive manner/mature manner. People should respect that and talk to you back in the same manner.

Jammer, if I go out with friends or a girl that wants to pay once in awhile/be an equal. We usually rock paper scissors for the bill, and then the tip. The one who pays last doesn't have to play unless they wish to, till everyone has paid the tip/bill atleast once. Yanno?

That's a good idea! I'll have to keep that in mind. I don't think it'll fly with my grandparents, though it would be funny.

My friends and I don't mind covering each other every once in a while if someone is short, so long as we either pay them back later or cover them the next time. That was always nice.

I don’t want to sound offensive or critique your views, but sometimes people cant control the strength of their handshake. They might have a reason for not having that firm grip while shaking hands. I know that I don’t and neither does my mom, but she has carpel tunnel, and I broke my wrist a few years back. That doesn’t make us uninteresting or not deserving of your respect.

Although I understand the importance of a firm and steady handshake, I also understand that you cant judge someone by first impressions. Granted the first physical contact with someone is important, it just should not be something that you base respect off of.


When it comes to having a meal with someone or a group of friends, we tend to split the tip between us. If someone is short, usually someone tells them that they will pay for whatever he/she got, just aslong as they pay them back in some for or another. Witht he group of friends I have we normally barter with free movie passes or using someone employee discount at their workplace.

When it comes to the unwritten rules on girls, I was always told to be polite and caring. Hold doors open, let them sit first, order first and everthing like that. If she wants to pay then I let her pay for her portion, but I refuse to split the tip. It was basically just give her want she wants and be as nice as you possible.

Good point :) I had overlooked that possibility. If I see you vigorously shaking hands with someone else after giving me a poor handshake though, and it looks like you don't have carpal tunnel syndrome there, then that's a different story, explicitly showing rudeness. If you have a limp handshake and are generally unenthusiastic in your mannerisms afterwards, then that also raises concern.

I also read an article yesterday about the politeness of people, which reminded me that holding doors open for any person behind you, girl, guy, whatever. That seems to go without saying everywhere I look, although I don't know about other places. Here, it's VERY unusual to see someone not try to hold the door open for another person (not letting the other person go first necessarily, but at least propping the door open so that the other person exerts minimal effort in propping it for themselves to get through).

I've always been happy to hold doors open for people. Especially if they're elderly, traveling with small kids/stroller, or have their hands full. It drives me nuts when I see people try to duck through a closing door when there's someone behind them, or not push it back to allow more time for the other person. Especially when it's one of my friends. "Hey!"

Anyone have any unwritten rules for personal space? I have a friend who never fails to step on the back of my shoe. There should be a rule for that!!

I say if I can feel you breathing on my neck then you are too close. Anyone doing that or the like would automatically get elbowed in the sternum.

I also think public displays of affection violate personal space. If we have to share the same general area with each other then please do not jam your tounge down your boyfriend's throat and dont make him squeeze your ass while you're at it. That is really inappropriate for people of a younger age to see. Bad enough we have them mimicking tv and movies, they dont need to see you dry humping in the middle of Wal-Mart.

When walking near someone, be cautious of their walking speed. If they keep stepping on the back of your shoes, walk behind them, or walk next to them. Just dont disrupt curb traffic while you are doing so, cause then you will piss of others. Other than that, personal space is just that. If someone in your's tell them to get out.

Some people also don't give firm handshakes cause of the fact that like Alice said that it feels like your hand is being crushed cause I know some people who grip so hard you just want to punch the person in the face for going overboard.

What about rules for interactions with waiters? We just went out to eat and I was thinking about this. It appears I've actually got quite a few expectations of waiters. Like for instance, I shouldn't have to ask to have my water glass refilled. If I put it at the edge of the table, that should be indication enough. They also shouldn't talk to me beyond taking my order, that just seems like an invasion of privacy to me. When they do fill my water glass, a brief "thank you" or nod if my mouth is full should be sufficient. I tip well regardless but I feel more generous toward waiters who respect the fact that they're really not supposed to be a visible part of my dining experience. It'd be interesting to hear from a waiter/waitress's point of view on this.

Of course, when I'm drunk that's a different story. Sass can attest I then play grab ass with the waiters, and tip way way too much. >.>;;

Hmmm, that is an interesting point. I too feel the same way. I don't tip much or at all if the waiter/waitress hasn't refilled my glass after its empty, or doesn't come back to check on us. I would say there are a lot of unwritten rules for that job... which in turn is part of the reason why I dare not to apply for a job like that.

Around here, a waitor usually comes around once in awhile and checks the table and as well asks if you need anything else. Atleast a good waitor does. And a waitor/waitress as well, you usually have to ask them for a refill or whatever means, it's just how it is up here but half the time they ask/make sure you have everything and things are full.

My tips are generally completely dependent upon that refilling. If I order a refillable drink and it sits there empty for a while, no tip. NONE.

Brent, what is more of an insult then no tip is this. Two pennies heads up. That'll piss some people off.

Speaking of which, tipping for me is more of thier manner and how they act, look and etc.

I used to stick with the old common 15% tip rate. That is, until I learned how much of a crap wage wait staff actually makes. So if the service is good, I'll tip more than that; if it's bad, it's the flat 15%.

I think the idea of tipping based on a percentage of your check is silly. If you walk into a place and order a single plate, like a $50 steak or lobster tail and a glass of water, then why should I hand over a minimum of 7.50? They're doing no more work than if I'd ordered a single plate at Chilis for 9 bucks. I tip generously for good service, but why should I tip higher just because the market price of my lobster tail is a small fortune?

I've also gathered that gratuity is very much an American thing. I was in Melbourne a few years back and locals were confused when I tipped at a restaurant. Also, what's with restaurants in Melbourne with no free refills on soft drinks?

I never eat at places where the meals costs $50, so I never thought about that.

As for America, I think part of why wait staff only gets about half of minimum wage is because it's expected they'll make it up in tips. It is pretty crappy.

I agree with a lot of the points made here, but coming from an ex-server's perspective, I do think that a percentage of your bill is fair. It's like comparing a garbage man to a neurosurgeon. The neurosurgeon should make a lot more money because he is a more skilled worker. His employment status is a lot higher than that of a garbage man. The same is true of servers. In restaurants where a meal for one person costs $30-$40, for example, you can bet those servers are the best that can be found in that area. They've been in the business longer, have more expertise, and are generally of a higher calibre than the servers at Denny's. It makes sense to me.

About the drink glass thing. I used to work at Outback Steakhouse and it was a rule that if a patron's glass was half-empty, we were to bring that patron another glass of whatever it was he was drinking WITHOUT ASKING. You just do it.

Avalokiteshvara, I am with you 100% about overly-attentive servers. It's rude and inappropriate. I don't want to hear your life story; nor did I come to your restaurant to be entertained by you. Just be polite and do your damn job.

Brent and Zio, I hate you both.

For some reason I seem to recall that they factor the tip into the price of the meal in other countries. Or maybe that has something to do with tax, I don't know.


I tip 20% unless the service sucks. It's easy to divide by 5. I don't eat out very often, so I don't mind.

I don't think it's dead... it's just gone into hibernation for the most part. At least from where I live people don't give a rat's ass about one another... and then you have me, the freak... who will hold the door open for another party coming in or out behind us... will allow for the women at my table to order first (typically I'll simply state something like "Jen?" to let my wife know that we are good to go and she can make the decision whether she's ready to order or not... something I am trying to instill in my younger brother as well)... open and close the car door for any female getting into my car (not able to run around the back of the car fast enough to open it for them to get out though)... et cetera.

As for the handshaking thing... I'm not a big fan of touching. Especially hands. I'll give my friends a hug when I greet them... but strangers I have a difficult time finding myself shaking hands with anyone. My hands will typically be found clasped behind my back and I'll do a slight bow or dip of the head when being introduced to someone.


But is chivalry dead? No... there are some of us who still practice it. Just in the current realm of people being self-centered, it's taken a backseat to everything else.

Personal space. The concept of personal space is pretty much important (at least to me). Hell, it's nigh acceptable (and welcomed) to hug and to give a hug. I prefer to shake hands instead. Wrong or not?

You'd only have cause to if you didn't keep my glass full. I don't think there's a problem with tipping someone based on the service they offer. If they don't give me any service, why should I give them money? Maybe they'll learn from it and try harder next time.

The part that makes me feel bad about that is that I know that a lot of the time the tips are split with the cooking staff, so I feel bad shorting them due to the inability of a server to do his or her job. But then I remember that empty glass, and I get over it.

Servers who think they deserve to get tipped for doing NOTHING is bullshit, and pisses me off. I don't get a tip at my job, and if they're not gonna go above and beyond then neither should they.

But even if they fail to keep your drink refilled (and I agree that this is unacceptable), it's not like they've done nothing for you. Just don't tip them as much. And damn it, there's no excuse for someone to require 10 drink refills during the course of one meal. I have waited on people whose glass is literally impossible to keep refilled. I had other tables, too, and filling someone's drink every five or ten minutes was just impossible.

But Alice, I drink a lot of water. =( I don't think 4 glasses is that difficult. =/ And really, I understand a waiter's busy, but I figure if they go by once, then they've seen the empty glass. If they go by again, they should be able to fill it.

I don't think it has anything to do with self-centerendness, but rather it's a matter of cultural norms. Guys are afraid to open doors for women and such because we don't want to insult their independence. However, guys are pretty much screwed either way these days.

If you open a door for somebody you get:

"Do I look like I'm not capable of opening this door? I can do it myself THANK YOU VERY MUCH! STOP SMOTHERING ME!!!"

or if you don't and you decide that this chick is looking rather "independent" or whatever you get:

"I can't believe it; some people are just SO RUDE! I'm a goddamn princess and you'd better treat me like one! Throw your coat in a puddle so I can step on it!"

Women killed chivalry by being confusing.

Why do you hate me? I only do the two penny tip if someone fucks up big. I mean as in get the order wrong, doesn't care about me and etc. That if you don't look prepared for the job aka pink hair, lip rings and chewing bubble gum(Which is unsanitory to begin with.) and probaly other things. Come on, it makes you look like you don't even want to be there or if you give me an atttitude when I question you about food or that you possibly had messed up.

(And that is not based off of refills cause I usually don't need refills as I eat my food.)

One time I had a bus boy who seemed to fill my water glass whenever I took a sip. So I took it upon myself to try to finish my glass of water before he could refill it. I think I eventually succeeded, but I had to pee for about five straight minutes by the time I got home.

I had a girl waiting on me once who would have my glass refilled without me even noticing she walked by. I was amazed, and I tipped her HUGE.

If she managed to keep it full, so can everyone else, and if they can't, well, then they're not as good, and they don't deserve to be paid as if they are.

I'd say that also depends on how busy the place is and how much staff they have on hand.

I worked at Burger King one summer and working understaffed is hell. The BK I worked at got a lot of business, so falling behind because they didn't schedule enough morning crew sucked a LOT. It's not that we weren't trying. Course it still doesn't matter to the customers. They can't see how many people are on staff. So it can't really be used as an excuse, but it would be nice if customers would sometimes consider there may be a valid reason for the lag.

Drinks are so important in the food service world. I learned to give cups out RIGHT AWAY, because for some reason, having at least a drink makes the wait on food a lot easier. That should be a BIG unwritten rule!

...

There was one time where a waitress gave such bad service that I wanted to tip her poorly. I can't remember exactly what she did, but she had an ATTITUDE and it pissed me off. Unfortunately, I was with a large group and the tip was factored INTO the bill. That pissed me off too. On the flipside, that place had one of the best hot turkey and gravy sandwiches I've ever had.

if theres a girl

who is standing on a bus, while i'm sitting

and i offer her my seat, it just looks like i'm coming onto her in a really plain and creepy way.


so i keep my seat.

I really couldn't care less what written or unwritten rules are considered socially mandatory. I aim to please myself.

Could or couldn't? I'm confused.

The phrase is "I couldn't care less." "Could" implies that you actually care, since you "could" care less than you do. I hate it when people say things without thinking about what their words mean.

Personally, I don't really care how good the service is, I tip whatever I can spare (usually $2-4) so long as the service was acceptable. Do a competent job, get a tip. It's only if they get the order wrong, or are nowhere to be found when my glass is empty (I don't mind asking, but I'd like someone to hear me), or something along those lines that I don't tip.

Chivalry isn't dead. Some folks, myself included, are dedicated to ensuring that it's alive and well as long as we are. Granted, it needed a few updates to allow for the realization that, OMG!, women are actually people. But we're workin' on it. :P



In most circumstances, is it not rude to ask your host for things other than drink? Fellow pot smokers, is it not highly rude to ask for reefer when you have none? I don't care how much you fiend, you only take what's offered to you, and is it not the same for all things when you're a guest in someone's house? I mean, unless you're my best friend, I always hate it when someone asks me "Hey man, ya got any food here?"

BTW, some social rules are stupid, Krusty 69, and thinking for yourself is important, but some rules are there for a very good reason. For example: It's an unwritten rule that you don't spit in people's faces or piss on their children. We don't have a book of ettiquite that states that, but I think it's safe to assume that we look down on that kinda behavior. ;)

Wow, you're right. It should be "couldn't," I'll fix it for you. OMG FREAK OUT!!! No need to be an asshole, are you the fucking grammar police?

The phrase "I could care less" was originally verbalized as an inquiry, implying that the person could not, in fact, care less. Somewhere along the line the spoken inflection was lost, leading people to mistakenly say that they "could care less" when the opposite was the case.

:tpg:


Actually Phoenix, to be the asshole that takes what you said literally, I would think not pissing on a child would be written down somewhere (or written as a more generalized law), because if you do it you're most likely getting your ass thrown in jail (or a nice fine), whereas say...tipping 5% wont get you in any real trouble.

That being said I see your point.

I think this is the first time I've ever actually seen "ZOMG GRAMMAR POLICE" used on the internet. All I need to see now is the Niagara Falls and my life can be complete!! If I cared.

So on the topic of grammar! Or spelling... any unwritten rules on when vs when not to correct people? I'm all for trying to help point out stuff when someone's confused or if it's a mistake they tend to use a lot. But some people are just so touchy...

This happens to me quite often! For some reason, my friend's friends
think they are too 'cool' for it or something. Like it's too old fashioned.

I end up reaching for their hand and they either slap my hand like a
high-five or do the 'fist' greeting (tapping up then down or straight on).

I like hand shakes ^_^ It's very welcoming.

My friend is a grammar police and around him. I tend to purposely(sp?) make stupid mistakes as I talk so he corrects me so he sounds smart, after awhile he gets pissed and tell me to stop it.

I do not care if people correct me as long as it's a common one I keep on doing over, over and over. Yanno? But if it's a simple mistake such as...

But then again, my thing is this. If you know what I mean, it doesn't really matter cause we're all human and we make mistakes.

That, and how can couldn't care less signify that he could care?

Couldn't care means he could not care as in he doesn't care.

"Couldn't care less" means that a person could not possibly care any less than he already does. "Could care less" means there's still some room to care more. Get it?

Anyway, I appreciate it when someone corrects me, as long as they're not an ass about it. I don't like for anyone to perceive me as an idiot, and the fewer grammar mistakes I make the less likely it is that someone will think I'm stupid.

Is this even ABOUT society's unwritten rules anymore?

It went from chivalry to waiting tables to grammar.

Speaking of which, what about proper language in front of the parents? This bother any one else? I hate when kids don't speak very well to their mother in public.

Which are all unwritten. The polite way to act...

And I swear to god I've seen kids do that and the mom does almost nothing. I've walked up to a few kids and told them, from my own experence as a kid, you should listen to your parents. They know better, they have wisdom you don't...

Hell if I ever spoke like some of these kids I got popped in the back of the head and told NOT to talk like that again or to make a scene. Hell you know how my mom stopped my little brother from running all over in the store?

She grabbed a tuff of his hair cause my family we all have curly and somewhat long hair. He stopped immidently, fell to the ground(My mom let go right away and didn't pull hair out.) and started crying. He never did it again.

Hell even when I was younger if time out or anything did not work. The 'nice' way. I got belted to the rear two times or even made my own switches.

Am I some psycopath or anything? No. If done right, I feel that sometimes I quick swat never hurts when you tried everything else of course.

I have a question about unwritten rules. Maybe back in the 50's, they published PA pamphlets about this or something, but I was never really TAUGHT.

When you meet someone in a social setting as a female, is it customary to shake hands with the people you are meeting? Business-wise, I know what to do, but in a social situation, I am unsure of how a woman is supposed to act - is shaking hands too masculine?

If it IS in fact the proper way to greet people socially, is a woman's handshake supposed to be firm? I've had people comment on my handshake being "very firm," and I think that may be a bad thing since I am a woman.

I am VERY unsure about the whole situation. I've never been taught this shit, and I am afraid I may be pissing people off with whatever it is I do currently.

Sass, I think they would probaly see you more as a tomboy for doing so. Most females usually do a quick hug as a greeting even to thier own girl friends, unless you don't know them very well usually a hand shake is a best way to go atleast in my book.

Yea, uh, I don't, like, EVER hug my girlfriends. Because thats fucking queer-ass. I just usually say "Hey, whats going on."

I am talking about when you go to barbecues or some shit where there are new people you've never met varied in age and profession. You talk to different people or whatever.

I'm not talking about meeting with a bunch of kids and being all "HEY NICE TO MEET YOU, 17 YEAR OLD. SHAKE MY HAND."

I just want to know what is socially acceptable when meeting members of someone else's family or something. I don't want to go with the "tomboy" excuse. I want to know what is the acceptable thing to do.

Sassafrass, it's perfectly acceptable to shake hands, but as a woman, you shouldn't be trying for a firm handshake, but rather a more limp-wristed (yeah, queer-ass too), gentle shake.

In business, however, this does not apply.

You're telling me a limp shake is better than NO SHAKE AT ALL? Wow. As a woman, I find that kind of offensive. ;_;

"O, deary me. I am meek and fragile! Shake my limp-wrist in greetings, but be sure not to harm me!"

Why couldn't I have been born with a dick. ;_;

We DO have surgeries to fix these issues, but until then, you get the meek and fragile way out.

But then, if a woman shakes a hand firmly like a man, it doesn't piss me off in the same way, say, as a man who is trying to break my fucking hand. The latter is rude, while the former is just a strange little tidbit. It's the difference between personality issues and poor habits.

So, don't worry about it, really.

I only follow unwritten rules if they logically make sense to me. If not, I don't follow them. I don't care how popular or how socially appropriate they are.

One thing I hate is why the hell do people think it's proper to dress nice in a restaurant? For one, I don't want my nice clothes to get food stains on them and secondly, who looks at another person when they are eating? Did you ever find yourself sitting down at a table and look over at another table and say "Boy, that guy over there has one nice suit on!" So I make it a purpose not to dress nice in restaurants.

My family has always been very laid back when welcoming new members. You can do whatever you want as a greeting--wave, hug, shake hands, kiss on the cheek. Slapping the ass might be going a bit too far, but for the most part we don't really care. We're just happy you came.

It seems to me that associating with a family that has all kinds of 'unspoken rules and procedures' that you must follow or be looked down upon would just be too much of a pain in the ass to deal with.

I hate that a lot. Actually, almost more than that I hate it when parents don't use proper language in front of their own children, or just yell at them. What are they teaching them?

But yeah, I never swear in front of adults, especially ones who I should or do respect. I want their respect back, after all.

...I still see myself as a kid apparently. Hahaha.

In the UK we have a lot of things that are unwritten but expected in society. The pavement walking thing is very prominent here, we usually walk on the left hand side of the path, but (and I am basing this on 99% of the ones that I meet in the street) the asian community, particulary asian girls seem to have no idea that other people are on the street. They walk right into you and grunt because you didnt move out of their way. This annoys me.

The thing I dont like is how people judge you by your handshake, and you get the assholes that basically rotate your knuckles because they squeeze that hard! Sometimes I just want to stand there screaming when they do it so they learn not to do it again. I hate firm handshakes.

Oh and as British people, we are known for our ability to Queue. We dont talk in queues as it is a sport to us, we face forwards, grip whatever we are buying and hold it close, and we do not blink. The problem comes when a group of people in front let their friend come in with them, even if they arent buying anything. People go silently nuts. Heads shake, mouths make that "tut" and whispering begins. The sport has been compromised!!!! To be fair though I do like it when someone see's you have just a pot noodle and a loaf of bread and they have a months shopping and they let you go ahead of them. Thats queue decorum right there!

Oh and I still dont swear in front of my parents, im 23 and I still feel like they dont know I know the words! Occasionally the word "shit" will slip out but to be honest I have heard my parents swear more since I turned 18 ish.

The one that gets me is the fact that when you go to grandparents houses you have to sit, be quiet, pretend you enjoy the 14 litres of tea she forces down you, and also pretend her stories about edith and joan from number 47 are interesting. Why cant we just sit there and yawn, fall asleep and scratch ourselves? Social faux pas!

Wow, I just laughed for a solid five minutes when I read this. Takes me right back to my days in Brighton. We need to see more of this guy around. He's like the English Infernal.

I didn't realise that queue...ing was such a sport! That's pretty amusing. I don't mind so much if someone cuts in line if they're not buying anything, but if they are it's like, "Excuse me?"

What I hated more though was the one time I wanted to go through the "10 Items or Less" lane at Target and there was some lady with 34985730497 articles of clothing. I wish I knew what the story behind that was. /small rant

Holy CRAP, I hate that. Sometimes, I passively-aggressively speak up, too. Especially if the title of the lane is for express checking-out and a person has about 30+ items. I always wonder why the people working the line don't speak up. It annoys the ever-living fuck out of me. The line for quick-check-out. If you've got more shit than necessary, take a regular line.

Although admittedly, I really enjoy the self-check-out with the automated machines, now. It's better than having to deal with the "HELLO HOW ARE YOU" crap at the counter. You can by-pass the bullshit with the "10 items or less, IF YOU WANT" stuff.

Also, what is this with "queing" (did I spell that right). People in England actually make a sport of getting in line? Can someone explain this further, or is it a joke? ;_;

Its kind of a known thing with the brits that we tend to queue for anything. We like to complain about things and a queue is the perfect thing to complain about, so alot of people refer to the brits as pro queuers, its not really a sport though, I was just being a silly bugger. Sorry for the confusion ; ;

No, no. No confusion. I am just unsure of what "queuing" is. Is it standing in line while wating to pay for something in a store? Because I just can't picture it, being a pro "queuer." Maybe it's because we Americans are different, but how can you be a pro queuer?

I think I just don't understand the term. I am sorry. ;_;

Queuing is standing in line for something yes, its just a stereotype we as brits have. :D

He was correct, and yes I was grumpy. It was very late and I was unable to go to sleep. No beef Phoenix, you were right.

All good, Krusty, all good. :)

Hey Sass, think for yourself and you'll get all the respect you need and deserve. If that limp-wristed crap isn't for you, then don't bother with it. Be yourself, shake any hand any which way ya please, and I assure you no harm can come of it. You'll feel better doing it your own way, too.

I offer my hand to anyone I've just met, regardless of gender. It's one of my own unwritten rules that I don't bother with sexism, polite or otherwise. And I don't care how you shake my hand as long as you do it, so long as you don't try to crush it. That'll get you a swift kick to the nether region, y'dig? Judging people by anything other than their ideas, mannerisms, and personality is an utterly absurd concept to me.

That much said, it's greatly appreciated if you wipe the sweat off before you offer your hand or take mine. I take pride in my non-clammy hands, I'd prefer they stay that way. ;)

And one last thing: I greet my closer friends with a hug, same goes for most of my family, but I'd never greet a new acquaintance with one. And unless you're a high school girl, it's probably not a good idea for you to, either. Some people get reeaall touchy when you get up in their space like that. Weirdos. :P