Finishing up Firefly.
 

After buying and loving Serenity, I bought and have loved 3 of 4 discs of Firefly. How they cancelled this show is beyond me. There aren't many TV shows I like nowadays, but this is definitely a good one and I wish it would come back.

The fact that they cancelled Firefly breaks my goddamn heart. I think it's Joss' best work of the holy three. Buffy and Angel had too many weak episodes, whereas Firefly was brilliant. I suggest downloading the three Serentity comics too, Dope. Fills in some story bits.

Yeah, how the fuck Buffy survived to seven episodes while this far superior show died is beyond me.

Buffy is a decent show, but Firefly is a great fucking show. I wish we could have a Family Guy style revival for this thing (More than just Serenity.), because this is one of the only good TV shows released recently.

Edited for accuracy. :)

I never watched either Buffy or Angel, so I have no idea what, if anything, is so good about them. Joss knows what's going on with sci-fi, obviously, and Firefly was a breath of fresh air.

Wasn't it just? "What does that make us?" "Big damn heroes, sir?" "Ain't we just."

The dialogue was... it was ridiculous. All the actors knew their roles inside and out, especially Nathan Fillion. I've liked him since Two Guys and a Girl, and his role as Caleb in Buffy blew me the fuck away. But it's like he was born to play Mal Reynolds. It absolutely murders me to know I'll never know what exactly Book's history was.

Yeah, Firefly is among my very favorite of TV shows ever. The amazing mix of western with sci-fi, foreseeing a more believable future with specifics like the influence of the Chinese language, and then having such incredible situations, screenwriting, and dialogue - I'm so ticked that they killed the show, and then it makes me equally mad that Serenity did as poorly as it did. I was nothing but wholly impressed by Firefly.

Despite Firefly's originality, the bulk of Joss Whedon's work is cliched tripe, pablum unworthy of the energy it takes to transmit it to even a single television set. Firefly was indeed the best project and even then it wasn't anything revolutionary. Entertaining enough but it didn't break a ton of ground.

As for Buffy or Angel, I wouldn't even wipe my ass with those scripts. Whedon's work on these shows has demonstrated that he's little more than an industry hack and that Firefly was his only relatively worthwhile idea.

Joss Whedon is to science-fiction as Carrot Top is to stand-up comedy.

Well congratulations Mr. Landon for figuring out what everyone already realised years ago. Of coure Firefly wasn't revolutionary. It was just -good-. And Buffy and Angel hardly enter into it. 90% garbage, 10% strong dialogue in certain episodes. Not worth the time, in my opinion. But Firefly could easily have become the most entertaining sci-fi on television right now.

P.S.: Jewel Staite (Kaylee) = omg married? theft

Morena Baccarin (Inara) ain't bad either, though I'm not a fan of the intentionally sexual. :p

Now see, you agree that Whedon's subsequent work is vastly inferior. However, in actuality, you're in the minority, as there are scads of Buffy-obsessed fuckwits still traipsing about this planet.

Angel and Buffy reruns still pull in strong ratings for their afternoon timeslots. And I've overheard more than only a couple conversations in which two colossal losers express their heartfelt desire to fellate Mr. Whedon as recompense for all his contributions to sci-fi.

Honestly, I think much of Firefly's quality can be attributed to the writing of Ben Edlund. (Titan A.E., The Venture Bros., The Tick comic book series) Edlund's stamp is clearly visible on Firefly, which helped elevate it above Whedon's other works.

I am aware that Edlund also served as a staff writer for Angel, but this was in the show's final seasons and by that time, the die of mediocrity had already been cast; Edlund had to work with the characters and plotlines created before his arrival, resulting in a "Here's some turnips, now make some lemonade" scenario for him.

I just don't think much of Whedon. Most overrated writer/director/producer since George Lucas.

Oh, then we're in agreement. I contribute a huge portion of Firefly to Ben Edlund. The man who writes Venture Bros and the Tick can do no wrong. Plus, his bits at the end of Angel are some of the best dialogue in the whole series. "Would you like me to lie to you now?" "Yes, please." And for the record, I watch both Buffy and Angel. But I realise how horrible they are. The good episodes are always written by people who aren't Joss Whedon. That being said, I wouldn't say he's as bad as George Lucas. People build fucking monuments to that piece of shit.

I don't think there was any episodes of Firefly that were bad, even the unaired ones were pretty awesome. I was never really a fan of Whedon (hated Buffy and never gave Angel a chance) but I picked this DVD up because I had 40$ gift card and nothing else to buy. It was well worth the time I put into watching it. I got into it around the time Serenity came out...and although I preferred the series...thought S was pretty damn awesome. FOX has a tendency to cancel good shows (Firefly, Family Guy).

I wonder though...would the hardcore fans of Firefly have it up on a pedestal like they do now...if it was still on or lasted longer? I think its regarded so well it was in fact canceled ...never really had a chance to prove it could be bad (although with my taste...I probably never would of thought that).

I enjoyed the characters most especially...the actors filled out the parts well and made you believe what you were watching. Star Trek shows go on for season after season (TNG and DSN) ...and yet their characters were bland, annoying and pitiful, FF's were fantastic.

You're wrong.

Angel is one of the best TV shows to ever grace the small screen. It has some of the best writing, characters, acting, and storylines ever. Seasons 3 and 4 of Angel are better than 99% of anything on TV. Ever.

He is not an industry hack and you suck.

You're right. People who love quality TV shows are fuckwits.

Idiot.

Well here you go:

Not a fan of Buffy or Angel. Big fan of Firefly. Why? I haven't seen very many sci-fi western blends, so it was a bangin' good idea. There also is next to NO decent dialogue writing with good timing out there nowadays, especially in the sci-fi genre. It seems like every screenwriter worth anything has realized that if George Lucas set the sci-fi standard, they need to jump ship and make for some other boat. Firefly may or may not be the best thing since sliced bread, but I think it's certainly the best sci-fi series to come out since...(drat, I haven't liked many sci-fi series recently)...Babylon 5, maybe. =P

I love it when these threads spontaneously combust.

Seriously, whoever did it, Firefly/Serenity was revolutionary in that it was good. Sci-fi TV has been in the quality dumpster since the mid-90's, and this series showed some great promise, not to mention an original concept.

But, c'est la vie. At least we got sixteen hours of the stuff; I'd rather watch all sixteen over and over than subject myself to a single episode of Angel.

The law of diminishing returns can only apply to things that last. See, it's easy to say Frefly was greater than Item X, because Item X had a chance to suck. Firefly did not. People say the same thing about shows like Freaks And Geeks, Miracles, My So-Called Life, The Prisoner, Murder One, Wonderland, Freakazoid! and tons of other shows I can't think of. Shit, I bet you someone on the internet could convince people here that My Mother, The Car was a genius peice of television for it's "Hume-like qualities".

I have mixed feelings about Firefly myself. On one hand, it's cute and entertaining. I love the characters Jayne and Kaylee. There are a lot of elements that don't mesh, but thats bound to happen on a show that takes it's genre mix too literally (as opposed to the original Star Trek, which was literally pitched as Wagontrain To The Stars)

On the other hand, its fucking frustrating. The internet has attempted to tell me that this show was important and revolutionary when it's really nothing new except being a "horse opera in space" - quite literally. The things discussed in Firefly are no more important or relevant than those talked about in Battlestar Galactica - which is no more important or relevant than 90210, Dawson's Creek or Felicity. Abortion is no longer a tricky topic - but it is if it's in space!

Yes, Firefly has some cute dialouge but anyone who's seen Have Gun, Will Travel, The Rifleman or Maverick have seen these plots a couple times 40+ years ago.

I also find the character of River Tam to be insultingly awful. You could not ask for a worse thing in a show than unnessessary exposition - and she was a literal embodiment of exposition. Instead of making a subtle or complex reason for the Alliance to chase Mal and company - they had to give a badly reasoned McGuffin in the form of an attractive female. Come on, you expect me to swallow that? Poor insane hot girl!, the internet cries. And given how badly written she was set-up as - once you find out what she's carrying in her head in the movie, it's just complete bullshit.

I have problems with Serenity - mostly because of the changes between TV to film. The doctor goes from being this nice, meek guy to this angry jerk and 3 seasons worth of TV plot points are jammed down our throats in the span of 2 hours time. Sloppy, lazy bounds in logic in terms of writing (though I *loved* the villian in the movie) and some of the "shocking moments" (you know what I mean) were cheap - namely that of Book.

I like how you say this with absolutely no proof of any of it. "It's good and you suck! ROFL." Good for you, though. And yes, everyone has heard that theory about Book. It's never been substantiated. Again, nice hustle though.

I was a big fan of Buffy until Season 4. I later went back and bought seasons 4 and up and greatly enjoyed both 4 and 5 - but I may never forgive Joss for seasons 6 and 7 which were amongst the sloppiest peices of shit I've ever seen pass for a complete season. The moment the show switched to UPN, the writing dropped like a fucking rock.

Angel, though? I enjoyed Season 1. It was dark and lonely and had a little something something with demons and shit. But come Season 2 it was pretty bleh. Character development was bouncing off the walls like a superball factory, ideas were left by the wayside and by season 3, I lost all interest in the show.

Is Buffy one of the best shows of all time? No. There are courses in college that put this gigantic emphasis on the show because of its running continuity - but thats literally backlash to fanboy masturbation. We're just looking for validation in buying books and t-shirts and lunchboxes to have them connect to the larger whole. This is a major crippling factor with current sci-fi/fantasy shit - the need to lowball and placate it's audience with fucktard crapola.

Do I enjoy Buffy? Immensely - at it's best it was a good analogy for growing up and alienation and all those My So-Called Life things but with some ass-kicking thrown in. However, at it's worst, I'd find more entertainment in watching a Three's Company marathon in Russian.

The lesson learned here - and this goes with and against Denicalis here - is that the internet needs to shut the fuck up. For every decent human being who likes a show like Buffy or Firefly, theres another 100 who live in their parents basement listening to Joe Hisashi soundtracks, beating off to pictures of Kiera Knightly and thinking that they're some kind of oppressed media genius because they picked up on someone that everyone else saw.

Buffy was good for three seasons. After the kids went to college and Angel got the spin-off, to me it was hit or miss, mainly miss. When you have something run for a long time, eventually you will run out of good ideas. It happened with a great show like The X-Files, so there should be no surprise that it happened with Buffy. I really only watched the first two seasons of Angel, but I'm sure it happened there too. I'm not a huge television show buff, as far as following shows for 8 or 10 years, but I would imagine that it is pretty normal for things to get watered down after 60+ episodes. New writers come in, good writers leave for greener pastures, XYZ plot device has been used before, etc. When your show is using a monster of the week type format, eventually you run out of myths and legends to use.

Firefly would have eventually run into something similar, it being an alegory for post-Civil War America would not have saved it from becoming stale at some point. It was great while it lasted though.

I am a big fan of Firefly. I loved the premise, the characters, the story (to a degree). It was a fun show and it was by far one of the best shows on TV when it aired (of course, that's not saying much. Being better than shit...well, you get the point). I was not a fan of Buffy nor Angel. I thought both were pieces of garbage, thus I was very hesitant to give Firefly a shot (I mean, it was Joss who generally sucks, and it was also the jock from Two Guys, A Girl and A Pizza Place for a captain...how good could it be?). I was pleasantly surprised. It was good.

That said, I wish that it wasn't cancelled, although I am glad they made a movie from it, which was decent (alright, even though it seemed a little rushed, and Book, well, let's just say that was not needed in the movie). He was talking of doing a couple of more movies, whether they are sequels or prequels, who knows. I know I'll watch them, and hope they are well done. I just wish that Fox wouldn't have it's head stuck up its ass when it came to cancelling shows especially when they decide to replace it with Generic Reality TV Show Number 42...as if we need more of those jumped up gameshows...

I dont see why people continue to say Joss Whedon sucks when he's had three big cult TV shows and an Oscar nomination

It's the hip thing to do. Try to cut down those who are generally being heralded as good. Makes one feel important.

I understand everyone's point about it being a matter of time before Firefly sucked it up hardcore, but in the meantime, I don't think it was anywhere close to that. The brilliant TV studio will run a show until it's on the cusp of stupidity, then tie up the loose ends enough to satisfy the masses and pull the plug. I think it was cut prematurely - it still had a ways to go in terms of storyline potential before it got stale. All decent shows have to come to an end sometime - I'm not saying this was the next Simpsons - it just hadn't reached its peak yet.

Me, I think he sucks because I didn't like the first 2 of his cult TV shows. To me, he sucks, overall except for his influence on Firefly. Sure, other people liked him. Sure he got an Oscar nomination (as if the Oscars or anything like that are any true indication of talent...), but I still think he sucks. Just my opinion. I wasn't a fan of Buffy, nor of Angel. I thought they were bland, boring garbage, appealing to hot and horny people everywhere, and nothing more. They were very uninteresting to me. Sure, there may have been moments where they were mildly interesting, if I had been bothered enough to watch all of the episodes, but I'm not going to waste my time watching something that I don't enjoy just to get a couple of moments that I might find interesting. I'd rather waste my time watching something or doing something that I actually enjoy.

You paint the world's most unimpressive, illogical arguement I have ever seen in my entire life. "I don't like something... because I don't like something!" is in no way, shape or form a way to convince other people you're right. Stupid, yes - but not right.

I'm assuming he's talking about the premise of the shows, the dislike of which doesn't need logic. I didn't like the premise, can't be bothered to watch more than a few minutes of either show, but I assume that the thing that makes Joss Whedon stand out most in my mind - namely brilliant, snappy dialogue - is likely intact, despite the fact that I'm not interested in watching it.

That having been said, saying someone sucks at what he does because you don't like the premise is kinda sad.

Hey, I don't like baroque music at all but I can appreciate that Handel was a master composer. He composed things that revolutionized how music is written to this very day. Someone who says otherwise is an idiot.

And while I won't compare Whedon to Handel - I will say that someone who validates how they're feeling because they don't like it is a fucking moron.

Yeah, if they're looking for validation. Most emotion doesn't have a logical basis, though. I know plenty of people who say classical music sucks and then go out and listen to Britney Spears. While I think they're a bunch of complete morons, the fact remains that their opinion is logicless emotion (attached to supreme ignorance, but hey) and is valid as emotion.

Not valid as a point to make in argument, though.

Hah, I'm not trying to convince anyone I'm right. I was stating why I didn't like Joss, nothing more. I wasn't trying to argue anything, simply stating an opinion. If I find something boring and uninteresting, I obviously don't enjoy it, ergo, why would I watch/do/read it? I wasn't even making an attempt to bring logic or a well-formed arguement into the equation. If I did, I wouldn't have used opinion as fact.

I'm not trying to convince all the massive hordes of Buffy fans that the show sucked. I'm simply saying to me the show sucked. Don't read too much into what I, or anyone else says...this is the internet...it's full of opinions. The "facts" are few and far between. :)

Well this kid did basically say something to the effect of "I watched like 10 minutes of some episode and didn't like it so now I think everyone involved in the creative process which brought about the show sucks." So you've pretty much hit the nail on the head with that example.

If you make it a point to bring it to topic on the internet, the fact that you are voicing your opinion is looking for validation.

If you weren't, you'd keep it to yourself.

I think you're a fucking queer little shit that should drive some nails into his forehead with a Black And Decker nailgun and then throw himself in front of a bus. But hey, thats just my opinion.

Good for you, more power to you. Personally nailguns and busses happen to hurt, so that won't be happening anytime soon. And just to let you know, if I somehow managed to drive some nails into my forehead with a nailgun, I doubt that I'd be doing the bus diving routine, not to mention that I am neither queer, nor little (I may be full of shit some of the time, so that part I cannot discount)...so your opinion is based on an improbable situation. You should probably revise it. ;)

I like all of Joss Whedon's shows. I would contribute more to this thread, but I'm not sure of this thread even had a point to it in the first place...

Saying you are not queer is not unlike my saying I am asian. Neither are true just because we say so.

It didn't. The reason why Angel is so loved is because it actually became more exciting and inventive as the show went on.

That's alright, you can keep your "me-as-a-fag" fantasies. I know that I'm ridiculously good looking, but really, I'm honestly not going to come over to your house. I prefer the female gender. But if you feel the need to jack off to me, go ahead. I don't fault you for your decision.

For someone who demands to be known as heterosexual, you seem strangely expecting other men to jack off to you (or on you?).

My theory was always that the Firefly series was so great because it got cancelled before Whedon got a chance to do his usual evil deeds. So he squeezed all of them into the movie :(

Not that Serenity wasn't great, but the heavier tone made it a lot less enjoyable for me than the laid-back, more relaxed atmosphere with occasional serious moments of the TV series.

Either way a wonderful series, and while I would have loved to see more episodes, I'd rather see it end while it's so unbelievably good than to see it slowly decline into not so good.

Bingo.

Also, she's not that hot.

I know a lot of people who think shes gorgeous but I like girls with a little more meat on them. Needless to say, Kaylee looked a lot better in the series than she did in the movie.

River was pretty 'sexed up' for the movie, I'll give her that.

As for the show in its entirety:
Hate Whedon or not, Firefly is one of the finest sci-fi TV shows to come around in years.
And cliched setups be damned! Give me a sexy girl under duress in a sci-fi setting over another doctor show where there's an ethical dilemma concerning ________ any day of the week.

As much as I want to agree with you, I forced to disagree simply because I wouldn't want to trade one tired cliche for another tired cliche.

However if that girl were to be running around without a bra, a plunging v-necked top and be named Anna Paquin, I'd probably be shoving all you niggas aside to produce that show

I have to say, this is the best post I've ever seen from you, LeHah. You took the words right out of my mouth.

But my fondness for Firefly runs a bit deeper than yours, I think. I loved the dialogue, and I didn't have much of a problem looking past some of the poorer choices to enjoy what was mostly fantastic interplay. It's just frustrating to see the show center around such an uninteresting and uninspired trope character.

To me, Firefly was a great show. Not a revolutionary show, not an important show, just a great show. The problem arises when people try to put the show into categories. C'mon people, not every show ever made is gonna change the landscape of television as we know it, so sometimes you just have to enjoy stuff for what it is. Firefly, Buffy, and Angel all have their good points, and there are certainly worst programs to like out there, but do these shows really deserved to be put on a fucking pedestal?

I liked Firefly (even though I didn't discover it until DVD), but it's kinda hard to compare it even to Buffy and Angel. It only has fourteen episodes, so there's less of it to judge. We can say it could have been great, but no one really knows this. Just think if Buffy had been cancelled after one season, people might be saying the same thing, and while it would be partially true, we all know some of the later episodes (and in the case of season 6, entire seasons) really weren't that good, and a lot of them just plain sucked.

My point is that yeah, Firefly was a great show, and yeah, it probably deserves another chance, but even if it doesn't get one (which, do you honestly believe it will, especially after Serentity didn't fare to well at the box office?), just enjoy what we have now for what it is: A great show. And besides, at least the show got somewhat of a proper ending (I still think Objects in Space was a great way to end the show), which was expanded upon even further by a major motion picture. How many cancelled shows get to do that?

Here's a picture of me in a hat some of you may recognise:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...s/JayneHat.jpg

Pretty cunning, dontcha think?

Jayne. The man they call Jayne...

He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne.

Our Jayne saw the mudders' backs breakin'.
He saw the mudders'lament.
And he saw the Magistrate takin'
every dollar and leavin' five cents.
So he said "You can't do that to my people."
He said "You can't crush them under your heel."
So Jayne strapped on his hat
and in 5 seconds flat
stole everythin' Boss Higgins had to steal.

He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne.

Now here is what separates heroes
from common folk like you and I.
The man they call Jayne
he turned 'round his plane
and let that money hit sky.

He dropped it onto our houses
he dropped it into our yards.
The man they called Jayne
he stole away our pain
and headed out for the stars!

Here we go!

He robbed from the rich
and he gave to the poor.
Stood up to the man
and gave him what for.
Our love for him now
ain't hard to explain.
The hero of Canton
the man they call Jayne.

Thank God you only posted the picture and the words, and not a voice clip of you singing the words (though, who knows, you may have a singing voice like an angel).

Yeah, and thank God you quoted his entire damned post because none of us are smart enough to follow linear thinking.

Jerk.

God I missed you, LeHah. And that isn't even sarcasm.

You're welcome. I knew it would help somebody!

Getting back on track, I love how it wasn't until last week that I figured out that Adam Baldwin was THAT sort of Baldwin. Also, I like how if you watch Angel, almost the whole cast pops up at different places.

How about you help me out and not spit my load out of your mouth for once?

In regards to Firefly, I thought the show was well written, the actors all had their little quirks down to a t, and it was generally just fun to watch.

Joss Whedon can do no wrong in the eyes of fanboys, I know this to be true after reading Astonishing X-men. While the first arc was enjoyable, the rest of the series has simply sucked. The Danger Room coming alive, OMG! The hellfire club is back! Wow..yeah..sorry. No. The thing that pissed me off most was the ressurection of Collossus. Seriously, there was no need. He killed himself to save mankind..why would you deminish that? I can imagine the creative meeting on this. "We should bring back Collossus." "Oh my god Joss, can I lick your feet for you?" "Yes Mr. Quesada. You may."

In regards to Buffy. I enjoyed the movie emmensely. Not because it was groundbreaking, or had some kind of social commentary. No, it was just a stupid movie that didn't take itself overly serious. Then the show came out. The first season was actually fun to watch. I enjoyed the hookyness of it all, but quite frankly, having an apocolypse every season is kind of stale. And after season four, the quality of the show had severely dropped.

Finally, in regards to Angel. I liked the first 9 episodes or so. The comic relief was a demon/man named Doyle. He was a drunken irish demon guy who had visions. He made the show. My opinion on this show is simple. Watch the first nine episodes of season one, then watch the last season. That's about all that's worth your time.

Do you even know what you're talking about half the time? What the hell is 'your load' supposed to be, you know, in an effort to help me not spit it out anymore?

This, ladies and gents, is surely the heights of humor.

UGH, ALL THIS SARCASM! I can't take it anymore!!!

You do realize that you have now done the same thing that started your bitching in the first place?

But seriously, give it up already. Your attempts at being witty fail miserably. Of course, you're a one-trick pony, so I guess pretending to be witty with your insults is all you can do.

Actually, I find his insults to be pretty hilarious (and I've been on the receiving end of a couple).

My advice: Don't take the Internet too seriously...you'll only end up hurting yourself.

Somewhere in there - you need to add or change or subtract a word or something. When you read it, the whole sentence comes out really weird sounding.

But as for the "I did what I was bitching about" thing, I fail to see how. You also failed to show me how. You basicly came back to me and said "Look! You just did it!" without saying what I did.

What the fuck are you talking about? Dane Cook wishes he was as funny or good looking or overly-hung as I am. Bitch, get back in your kitchen and make me some pasta.

If there really is something wrong with it, why don't you point it out? Otherwise, it just looks like you don't have a grasp of the English language.

It really makes you look kinda of dumb if you can't figure it out. Now it just seems like you found the smallest thing that displeased you just so you could start a pointless argument and derail the thread. So much for "linear thinking".

There you go again...


Why don't you just stop this, and try not being a troll in a thread for once?

I did point out that something was wrong. After reading it again, I think it's because you used too many words to say something so simply. Not that you were flowery in your wording or descriptions but you kinda tripped over your idea.

Mmm. And it makes you look like some kind of fucking moron by not correcting me either. All you're saying is "No! You!" with words other than "No" or "You".

You gonna fucking cry on me now? Did I hurt your delicate sensibilities? Do you need to hide behind your mother's skirt?

See, I wouldn't act this way if there weren't people like you. It's like you're Joe Chill and I'm Batman and Logic was my parents. You shot them, I'm going to act all CRAZY FUCKING VENGENCE on you, and you're defeated.

As opposed to uploading tons of music to people I don't know and having a pretty interesting discussion on music theory? No, thank you. I enjoy sharpening my teeth - and it stands to show that all you're doing is throwing fuel into my fire - which not only perpetuates the arguement but completely validates me tearing you down like college date-rape.

Go and fuck yourself.

No, you didn't point out anything wrong. You just complained that I used too many words. The sentence is still grammatically correct though, so there really is no problem?

You're beginning to not even be worth the effort anymore. Maybe if I write a step-by-step guide, you'll finally figure something out.

1. Read your first post in which you started bitching for no reason.
2. Read the post that I quoted in which I said what you did.

Of you still can't figure it out, there's no hope.

Yeah, because I cry when people on the internet try to insult me.

Seriously, throwing in the most inane insults doesn't make you look any better than me. Get a fucking clue, no one really cares.

But that's the thing, you're not tearing anybody down, and you never do. All you basically did was admit to being a troll, which is already a pretty well known fact.

Can you both shut up now? That would be great. Thanks.

Now I'm scared to post in this thread, but I'm known for my stupidity, so I'm doing it anyway since I don't wanna make another one.

I saw Serenity, and liked it okay - it was average fare, when it came to sci-fi flicks. Good special effects, interesting enough characters, way MORE backstory than I thought possible in a two-hour film, poke-fun-at-cliche-lines dialogue... and I had no idea at that point that Firefly even existed.
Then, a few months later, I come back to my apartment and see my roommates watching something that looks like Serenity, but... what, a straight-to-DVD sequel or something? WTF is this? No no, it's Firefly. It intrigued me, but I still wasn't gung-ho about it and didn't bother to watch more than one episode all the way through.
Then a few months after that, I had the opportunity to borrow the DVD boxset from a friend. After the pilot, I fell in love. These characters seemed so much more fleshed-out, unrushed, and real than those in Serenity. It gave me answers and MORE questions, and I felt completely robbed after watching the last episode and knowing that for the forseeable future, there would be no more.
Now I'm getting my hands on everything related to Firefly that I can. I've never had a desire to watch Buffy or Angel, and I still don't, even though people say Joss Whedon supposedly did some of his best work there. Hearing the person I consider to be a master author, Orson Scott Card, praise this show as the BEST sci-fi series ever to hit television, and in many ways the first GOOD one, blew me away. High praise, but I agreed with it. Babylon 5 was fun, Star Trek was innovative, but THIS... this was absolutely an amazing series.

Character continuity was a bit muddled due to the studio's refusal to air the PILOT first, and I would agree that because of the circumstances each episode was written in, we sometimes got a confused vision of where the show was heading, especially in terms of character development. But overall, the characters, show, feeling and attitude were the most entertaining I've encountered in a sci-fi show.

I'll say this won't help you with the stupidity part, since you revived a 7 month old thread.

Ya, I don't like Ayos eithter, but his sig makes me remember "Whoa, good bible..." and then I laugh.

There is so much wrong with such a simple statement, I don't think I can completely respond to it.

Hm, yes. I'd much rather make another thread, and have everyone re-hash what they argued forever about here, than revive this one and let people look back at their own stupidity... or not.

LeHah...

...

Heheh. Did I miss these little exchanges?
Yeah I totally did. That's about all I can say, considering you didn't poke fun at anything in particular. :(

After watching Serenity, I think it would have been interesting if a similar event had occurred in Firefly, where the tide changed and the Alliance was put on the defensive. Then you'd have kind of a "rebel alliance" situation. There are many things they could have done to draw the series out a bit without making it stale.

Buffy went on perhaps a season too long, but it was a great show. I don't understand the hate here...