tl;dr
 

Since ChocoJournal isn't back yet, I'll use this thread to remark about my current situation concerning my social life. (It's not called "ANGST!" for nothing.) I'll apologize ahead of time and at the end for the length, but when I want to type I fucking do it and at great length.

Since GFF was wiped and I was still relatively new when it happened, some people may not know the story yet so I'll summarize.

• I'm 22, and I've been single my entire life. Never had sex, never been kissed (on the lips...I was once on the cheek but that was in a game of Truth or Dare, so I don't count it), and I've never been on a date. I don't drink, I'm atheist, and I have only one actual friend right now.
• How many friends I've ever had depends greatly on what the parameters of friendship would be, but best friends I've only ever had 3 to speak of, and the total number of possible friends is probably less than or around 10.
• None of my friends have been female.
• Yes, this includes Erin.

As the calendar year turned, I felt a particular wave of general dismay, despair, loneliness and boredom concerning my life, particularly my social life. I had just left Circuit City (which I had worked at since August 2002) to work at Home Depot, and Circuit City was not a happy place to work on many levels. Biologically speaking I've not been able to handle getting up in the morning since during school, whether I'd be tired or my body would not be happy gastrointestinally speaking. So, I worked nights exclusively, with a couple rare morning shifts here and there...and when I say rare, I mean one morning shift every...oh...6 months. As you would expect, this is tantamount to social suicide. I would rarely get to hang out with the people I'd want to hang out with and I accepted this as a casualty to my need to feel healthy biologically as opposed to socially. So, much like for the other 13-16 years prior to working, my social aptitude languished. That isn't the main reason why I left Circuit City, nor is it in the top 5, but I've made it not an issue at Home Depot. Nevertheless...

Being friends with someone, to me, is the sense that both people involved enjoy each other's company and would like to spend time with each other on a regular basis. How you define "regular" entirely depends on how much time the both of you COULD spend with each other. Erin is not much unlike the typical college student; gotta work to pay the bills, gotta get educated, gotta try to fit in a social life. What I think about how much time she may have to spend socially is irrelevant; the fact is we've only hung out once (back in late January) and we've not since while she's gone out drinking on a somewhat irregular basis (maybe once or twice a week). She works 40 hours, has class 2 days a week (one of which bisects one 9-hour workday; the other consumes a day-off), has an internship one day a week (which consumes the other day-off), and has presumably been making trips to the gym. Still, some people would suggest that she still would have time to hang out with friends anyway (and she does get to when she goes out drinking, which, despite some hint-dropping, she's not invited me to). Should I feel a sense of dejection, that her telling me that she'd like to hang out and she wants to be friends is simply an outright embellishment? As a person who overthinks and overanalyzes (sidenote: she recently told me she does to), this is one instance where, over time, I've groomed myself to not getting into. Conclusions:

• If she does want to spend more time with me it's only when she can invest a great deal of it at once (i.e. a planned event, like going to Boston as we've previously discussed and she's shown great interest in).
• Aside from the "stolen" time I've had with her (spending chunks of lunch breaks...or entire lunch breaks...or time when I'm out of work but stay to chat), she doesn't seem keen on spending only brief time with me, which is part of why she doesn't invite me to go out drinking.
• The other reason is she's a self-proclaimed "mean drunk", which I haven't had the chance to suggest I could deal with or accept as part of getting to know who she is or get to meet her friends.

Erin has some mentalities I would assume are based upon life experience, including her rape/abortion 3 years ago. I find it respectable that while I have a hard time even considering the whole story (which I haven't heard) she was capable of expressing it in various ways: writing, drawing, public speaking. She hasn't done much of any of this (that I know of), but it seems to have led to her dominant mentality of "I can handle my issues myself, no matter how enveloping or difficult they may be". So, when I go down the list of all the stressors in her life (work, school, parents, personal health, the health and general concern of both her brother in the armed forces and her grandfather, economic issues, general disdain for living situation, and possibly more that she's not letting me in on), I see that list and think, "What would I be like in that situation?". Of course, I could never know...the reasons why include that I'm slightly aloof but also because I've never experienced ALL of those issues at the same time. I'd presume I'd be a wreck, and that's what Erin has been for the past couple of months. I've been telling her that I hope she feels better, and more recently I've been asking her if or telling her I wish there was something I could do to help, but the general response is that she is going to make it through, for better or for worse. Respectable? Admirable? Foolish? Sometimes when you're younger you think you can do it all on your own. Whether she can or can't remains to be seen. She consistently suggests she wishes it would all go away, or that she could go away...and she is pretty confident in moving to Arizona towards fall 2007.

Where does all this leave me? Not far from where I was after leaving Circuit City. I've had the same one friend since then and, though I've made efforts to spend time with Erin and, more recently, another female coworker (since there's maybe one guy I like enough to think about hanging out with), it's all come out as wheels spinning. "Don't mix business with pleasure" to me sounds more like "don't bother making female friends of your coworkers", which is self-defeating on enough levels to consider it complete bullshit. My lack of a social life and, therefore, increased feeling of loyalty to the few who would spend time with me reinforce the notion that I would not betray or backstab my friends. Of course, this theory hasn't been tested, ever, so I'm probably saying this to make me feel better. However, it seems when talking to Erin that she's got enough of that shit going on with her friends ("mostly guys", which is why she says "guys suck"...but she wants to get married and have children someday), so I'd be better off maintaining my confidence in my ability to not lose the confidence of my friends, something Erin has had issues with in recent history. Now it's just a matter of winning said confidence.

Otherwise, my social life isn't any different. I work more days now (2 or 3 a week), and I still spend my days off (like tomorrow, I'm predicting) either doing nothing or hanging out with my friend. Those of you who have seen my prior threads on this situation have already suggested numerous ways of getting out and being social, but I can't do it myself and all at once. I feel like I do need someone to hold my hand, which is why when I stepped into Erin's haunt (a local bar), I briefly surveyed the situation, and ducked back out. I've never had a drink in my life and I quickly run through all the negatives about doing it when I'm by myself and I can't find a positive in there at all (the fact that the crowd was almost all in their 30s and up). The only solution is school. I've been meaning to go to school for almost a year now (took the SATs last June, filed for financial aid in the past few days), but the stopgap will be money. If that goes away, the questions that arise are, "How much do I try to be a social person? Can I balance my life like Erin is trying to; being social, working, going to school, and maintaining my health, my well-being and my economy all at once? Can I transcend my shitty high school work ethic?" I am hoping for a turn for the better in my social life (i.e. relationship) before going to school so I don't have to worry as much about being social, but that's elaborated upon in the next paragraph.

(Told you it was going to be a long thread.)

How should one feel when they've gone their entire life and have done all the asking but have seldom been asked? Would I have no social life if I never asked anyone to hang out? How would I know either way? I don't know how my current friend and I ended up hanging out, and neither does he. All we know is that we're each other's best friend, but he's got a girlfriend he loves and intends on moving away with. If he did, I'd be left to myself, with my same boring life. Making life exciting in this area is tough. It's tougher when I have no strong interest in drinking (especially not by myself), or going to clubs. Making people think you are an interesting person isn't as easy as you'd think. But that's how I have to get Erin or Nicole to hang out with me more. By spending time doing fun things with people, like Chris and I did when we were starting out, you probably/hopefully end up where you don't need to do something interesting to want to spend time hanging out. Erin likes me for my ability to listen to her and that I want to listen to her as she's ranting about her issues, and the fact that I am concerned for her well-being can't be going unnoticed or unappreciated. We've only hung out once so I don't consider us friends, but it wouldn't take much in my mind to make The Leap. It's the need to differentiate myself to her and her other guy friends that is my sole concern if and when the chance comes along. If and when we go to Boston may be the chance.

Sorry again about the length. :)

You're still on about this Erin chick? Mark my words: LOST CAUSE.

Man. You have this really creepy aura about you, where you overthink this shit.

Are you lacking in confidence? Seriously, its nothing to be ashamed of. It seems like you do a lot of thinking, but not a lot of acting.

The fact that I've made efforts to hang out with someone else other than Erin should indicate where I feel I am with her and where I think my confidence level is. I know I'm still pretty socially inept but I've at least got some resolve to fix it.

Yea, but you're still on about her. I would have thought by now the conclusion would be pretty self-evident.

You should just fucking throw caution to the wind. Stop thinking so much and DO IT. If we all sat around on our hands all day contemplating the most intimiate workings of the universe, nothing would ever get done and no secrets would be found.

Thinking is all fine and good, kind sir. ACting after thinking is even better. I don't know why you need an essay of a thread to say "I don't have many friends. How can I make more?"

Please don't get mortally offended or intensely DEFENSIVE by this post.

Dude, you need to jump in with both feet. Stop analyzing everything to death and just DO SOMETHING!

And also, what's up with your unnatural fear of drinking? Having one drink isn't going to kill you or even get you drunk, and goodness knows you sound like you could use some loosening up. Good lord, if you're like this in person it's no wonder you're socially deprived. CHILL OUT, friend. Have a drink and some fun and stop worrying so much!

Sheesh.

Fucking A, Alice. Is the moon in allignment or what? I've never agreed with you this much in the entire time we've been posting.

Alice makes a point - having a glass of wine with dinner never hurt anyone. I would like to second the question regarding drink. I've never actually ASKED you about it. Whats the fear about.

You two understand the concept of quitting smoking "cold turkey"? Difficult for most, simple for few. Jumping in with both feet would be akin to quitting smoking "cold turkey", something I can't fathom doing. As it is, I'm trying to quit being boring and lonely as most people quite smoking: slowly but surely, and with some sense of resolve. It may take some time but at least I'm trying.

My stance on drinking was more towards "unnatural fear" until last month when I concluded it was completely irrational to avoid bars. Not that I haven't been in drinking establishments in the meantime (the pool hall Chris and I frequent is the best example), but Chris is underage (despite that, he drinks at home) so we don't go to drink. I'd prefer not to have to drink to spend time with people but if that's how it has to be, then so be it. I don't want to need to have a drink in order to have fun (which is what your post suggests but I know you're not thinking it), but I also don't feel comfortable just going by myself and drinking. Best case scenario is I get comfortable going out drinking with someone (not particularly Erin but then again the list isn't very long :p), meet some people there, and take it from there.

Hell, I wouldn't even know what to order for a drink. :p

It's not that I don't think I could control myself (right now I'm doing well enough), but that I would need to have a drink in order for me to "loosen up", and that only by "loosening up" will people find me more appealing. It may seem like I'm not too appealing based on what I've posted but I'm not this crazy in real life. :D

Try a beer. There's not a lot of alcohol in most beers. Better yet, have a drink at home a couple of times first and experiment with different things until you find something you like.

Of course you don't want to have to drink to have fun, but your completely unnatural aversion to drinking might freak people out. It would me.

Have you ever considered joining any clubs at school. I've always felt that clubs are idiotic, and are just a desperate way for lonely people to find others that share the same interests. But you may have some luck with it.

I'm just getting the vibe that you're way too concerned with societal convention. You gotta have a busy social life, you gotta drink, you gotta have a relationship, etc. It's all bullshit. You just gotta be happy with yourself, that's it. But you say you aren't, so who knows.

I'm not in school yet, but the idea of joining a/many club(s) is one I've been entertaining.

Just get something to do, seems like you complain a lot about life in which it appears that you do not seem like a big participate in it, but rather a viewer of it. Go and do something thrilling like going out and finding a GF or other methods of killing time and money. If Erin isn't going to work with you, go out and find some other fish in the sea. Nothing is going to happen to you...you have to go and make stuff happen. UGH I hate being ambiguous.

(hope I wasn't being too forward)

The thing is, all this advice we're giving him (which is pretty much all the same) sounds so cliche. But it's actually really good advice.

You shouldn't go through life over-thinking everything. Just...live. Sometimes you'll make the wrong decisions and you'll get yourself in a mess. That's part of life. But that's better by a long shot than just sitting around analyzing every little thing to death while life passes you by.

I also have to second the thing about not drinking. I start drinking until a month or so ago and it's definately a lot easier hanging around with my friends. They used to hassle me a lot about it and they always felt awkward drinking around me when I wouldn't have anything. Now I'll just have a few drinks (still haven't found anything alcoholic I liked yet) and they won't make a deal out of it.

The key to enjoying alcohol is to select quality products. If your first experience is some piss like Budweiser, then yeah, you're gonna hate it.

To help you, here's a list of stuff you might want to try:

Beers - Yeungling, Guinness
Wine - There is this excellent wine called "Pagor". It's $15 a bottle and tastes like a $50 bottle, easily. Let it breathe for 15-20 minutes before drinking.
Hard stuff - Jagermiester and Crown Royal are both Liquors you can drink straight and enjoy.

Just try to stay away from cheap stuff and stuff that college frat boys drink and you'll find that alcohol can be quite pleasureable.

Minion is right. Stay away from Budweiser of any variety. Yeungling is pretty good beer (although not as tasty as Newcastle Ale), but if you're a total wuss and can't stand the taste of alchohol at all, try some of the Puckers, which are really easy to drink straight.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4...and/pucker.jpg

They come in probably ten different flavors, and they actually taste good.

Try to avoid going the chick drink route, if at all possible, for the sake of your dignity. He is a man, if I'm not mistaken, Alice.

Point taken.

If you want to mix drinks, go for the long island iced tea. You'll need to work your way up to that one, though.

As it's being said, you've figured out what's wrong, now it's time to actually fix the problem.

Drinking in social situations (especially for those of us with poor social skills) can be extremely helpful. I used to not be into drinking, and I'm still not much on it. It's not my thing, BUT a few friends coerced me into it and it definately helps. (It removes your inhabitions, yada yada, yada.)

Personally, I find Guiness to be disgusting. Go with Corona. That's some shit I almost LIKE drinking. I've never had Yeungling, tho. I prefer liquor since there's less filler. For mixed drinks, I've always liked Jäger Bombs - Jägermeister shot dropped into a glass of Red Bull.

Chick drinks? That's absurd. lol

Are you saying there is no such thing as a chick drink?

Being the Patron Saint Of Lost Causes, I was summoned to this thread by Sass's iteration of that statement.

Heres the long and short of it: Hire a hooker.

Women are insane. They bitch and they bleed from the crotch without having kicked them in the gut. They love your money but won't love you. They may love your cock if you're black or hung like one. They say they don't play games but the ones that say that are just doing a feint before the bayonette charge.

They're listless and argumentative. For ever woman that says men are pigs and cheat - theres another woman out there sucking that husband's meatpole. They're hypocritical, bitchy, manipulative and overlyemotional like a season's worth of PMS on Dawson's Creek.

I speak from horrible, dark experiences involving women. For every girl that sucked me off at a playground and rode me after, the same girl would do something stupid like get gangbanged or suck some dude off underwater while in Aruba or get knocked up by someone else. For every woman that hemmed and hawed at me - see-sawing the whole relationship, eventually drove me to tell her I'd be digging up her father's cancer ridden corpse and leave it on her doorstep if she didn't leave me the fuck alone.

For all the women I dated I never realized how good I had it with one of them - and then lost her to someone else (though thats a serious understatement) and for the last three women I dated - they all married the guy they met after me.

Women are human like everyone else. They're also useless, breeding shitbags like everyone else. They hate and dream and fuck and spit and scuttle about their lives not unlike any other animal or very much like cockroaches.

Pretty much. I look at the alcohol content; not the color and presentation.

The idea is to loosen up. Giving genders to drinks is a pretty anal idea.

I guess it's anal to label a dress "women's clothing". I just look at whether or not it's covering skin.

Oh, there are definite chick drinks, my friend.

We're trying to help this guy, not turn him into a fag.

I'm not entirely sure that drinking straight Pucker is girly, but drinking anything that ends in "tini" other than a plain, old-fashioned martini, definitely is.

Actually, if you want a flavorful drink that is not too harsh but doesn't make you look like a fairy, then try Dogfish Head beer. It sounds weird, but it's actually good. I've tried a flavor called Rasin d'etere (I think - something like that) and I would definitely get it again.

Ugh. Dogfish Head's raison beer is AWFUL. It's like drinking raisins! I like raisins but not as a drink.

However, they have an awesome beer that escapes me. It's something like 24% alcohol, $7.99 per (regular sized) bottle. My friends and I would buy one and split it in the parking lot and walk into the bar with a heavy buzz already going.

You know, I hadn't thought of this till now, but one effective method of reducing anxiety in general, which I know works through first and second hand experience, is by lowering your intake of sugar and caffiene. Try going a day or two avoiding them completely. You will notice that you are much more at ease.

I like how LeHah came in here and totally made it about him.

We know you suck at women, LeHah. We know. ^_^

You should just stick to shots, Dope. Fuck the worrying about what kind of drink to get. Just get 4 shots of tequila and down them in immediate succession. You'll be awesome. And laying on the floor.

Minion - I find that caffeine and sugar ENHANCE my socialibility. I don't even know if thats a word.

Seconded. After you hit the floor all the hot chicks'll dogpile you.

Sass, when was the last time your body has been purged of caffeine, tabacco or any other kind of mind altering substance? Try it sometime. Just drink water and avoid things that are sugary. It'll be weird at first, but if you don't notice a difference, I'll owe ya a buck.

All things in all manners apply to me.

See, not having my coffee in the morning makes me really irritable. It's the same thing with not having smoked in year - I'm fucking wound up and charging toward heart failure because of stress, not because of smoking.

Asshole. I drink 1.75 gallons of water a day. I also drink soda maybe twice a month. I smoke to CALM, not to EXCITE. Its a downer. Not an upper. I NEED it with my personality, believe me. The only caffeinated drinks I have is that amount of coffee in the morning. After that, I am rocking like a fucking hurricane all day long.

Too bad you've never met me. I have the energy level of a steam train. And thats not due to the 3 cups of coffee in the morning. The train is just warming up at that point.

And I don't fucking trip out every weekend either. Nice implication, though. -_-

Relax. If you don't want to try it, fine. But maybe it could benefit the thread starter, which is why we're all here throwing in our two cents in the first place.

Try WHAT? You advised me to do exactly what I do anyways.

I already told the kid he should try having a few drinks. I would also advise him to smoke a little herb, but god forbid I do that.

No seriously. Once or twice, just for the experience never hurt anyone. But I know Dope willa damantly refuse, so.

When I said "no caffeine" I didn't mean three cups in the morning. That is a strong dose of caffeine.

Did you mean to suggest that I do try weed? Because that was a really butchered sentence.

I suck at words. Thats how my mind words, what you just read. "Hello my name is SHINY THINGS HOLY CRAP I HAVE THESE AWESOME RINGS SPEAKING OF RINGS HAVE YOU SEEN THIS MOVIE WITH SOME HOBBITS O GOD METAL I LOVE METAL, AND I HAVE TAKEN CHEMISTRY AND...."

Yea. VERY easily distracted.

Minion - Three cups IS NOT a lot, considering I don't have caffeine for the remainder of the day. How much SODA do you drink? I bet you drink A LOT! ^_^

And yea, smoke pot more.

As if I'm not paranoid enough, then.

I think it would just be a more efficient use of your time.

You'd be contemplating the wall in your bedroom in deep intensity instead of some horrible chick.

Sometimes, observing the simple things teaches you to observe the more complex things.

You need to lighten up, see. Pot can do that for you. ^_^

I drink no soda whatsoever.

How much COFFEE do you drink?

You know I've got you nailed here, boy. You drink coffee more regularly than I do. Always going to get COFFEE and shit in the middle of the night. =p

I drink Sprite 80% of the time.

Mmm, what a lovely suggestion! Though I don't know if Dopefish would be too accepting of the lifestyle, I think everyone should try atleast it once. :p

Like Minion and Sass, I rarely drink soda. However, I never drink coffee since it leaves me too wired, then a little fatigued. I drink water constantly and make sure I always leave the house with a bottle for the day.

You should try switching to water, maybe if only for a week. Or you could add some tea to the water or something if you can't stand water in it's fresh, cold, natural form. (I love it I love it I love it)

Seriously, though. 80% Sprite. You're killing yourself slowly with that shit. =/

Plarom - I won't leave home without SOME form of water to drink. I am completely ANAL about my water being around me constantly.

You're one of those fucking morons? Jesus Christ, I'm going to start bottling air and sounds and sell them at gigantic prices for you jerks

Does it matter to say Sprite has no caffeine in it?

I do the same thing, but only because I DETEST "city water" with all the additives and purfiers they have to add to it to make it drinkable. It's well water or nothing for me.

Not in the least. I'm not even talking about caffeine anymore.

LeHah - what? Its not a matter of WATER or PURE or any of that shit. I am constantly wanting something to drink wherever I am. In fact, I think I am kind of OCD about it. If I KNOW I don't have any fluids, I get really thirsty. If I HAVE fluids, I am cool.

Its just a matter of always having something good to drink. Like water. Ice. Cold. Water. SIGH.

I think this obsession with cold water started when my sister and I got lost in the woods for almost a day in the middle of the summer wherein we could NOT find any fresh-running water. We were so thirsty, I vowed to never to go thirsty again.

Alice, is it me or does well water taste absolutely delicious? Man. I wish I had a well. I LOVE the taste.

This might have turned into the funniest thread I've read in a long time. From someone's social life or lack thereof and asking for suggestions to the benefit of well water over city. Fantastic.

My suggestions probably wouldn't include the physical changes of drinking and smoking and whatnot, htough changing diet can have a great impact on your physiology and ought to be considered. The way I figure, you don't have to be in school to join clubs. There are plenty of clubs/groups/organizations out there that there ought to be some that have some sort of draw you'd find interesting, and there ought to be some that aren't in-your-face get-you-social, too. I'm naturally a rather antisocial person, but I try to get out in small groups and step out of my comfort zone on a small scale every once in a while, just so when the way-out-of-comfort-zone situations show up, I can at least cope.

That being said, what really broke me out of my natural antisocial state was largely serving a mission for my church, which had me out and talking to people (in another language, for pete's sake) 12+ hours a day. THAT's jumping in akin to cold turkey.

(and for the record, cold, fresh well water rocks ^_^)

I'm below 180 pounds for the first time in months (possibly years), and I haven't needed dieting. I'm thinking the fact that I've been taking Centrum has something to do with it.

Why was this thread closed?

And then reopened?

I didn't notice that it was closed. :?

I had the same thing with the alcohol drinking phobia. But after I had a few alcoholic drinks (my first was a long island iced tea), I stopped worrying about it.

I don't think you should become a fish, though. Do it on occasion. I hate hearing about all these people who do nothing but party and drink ... wow, you and everyone else! You do anything INTERESTING, for Chrit's Sake?!

I'm also on the same boat that no one EVER invites me to do anything, and it seems strangers never approach me. Everyone's already got a group of friends, so why should they want to talk to me, right? However, I've had social anxiety all my life, and I'm just starting to get over it (very, very slowly).

From reading everything you wrote, you just need to stop being so uptight - Start off thinking non-uptight thoughts, and STOP writing about the uptight things that go on in your mind. Stop thinking so anylitically. Write about other things (make up bizarre shit if you want). Make yourself believe you are an interesting, social person. You've got to re-wire your brain (literally). It works.

Drinking is retarded anyway. Though if you're going to do it, you might as well be hanging out with good friends, because it's pointless otherwise. Bottom line, you're not missing out on anything.

Now back to the actual fucking topic, don't focus on Erin. Girls like to talk to people and like to get attention; that's what's going on here. No matter what you think, it is almost certain that she doesn't consider you more than a friend. This doesn't mean to abandon her; just respect her as a friend and keep it at that. If by some chance it evolves to something more, you may proceed, but don't count on it.

You need to start setting your sights elsewhere. Stop limiting yourself to what you can scrounge up in your immediate vicinity. If you really want to find a woman to get involved with, you need to broaden your horizons. Find some place or some thing where you can meet new people that you can relate with. And if your job is severely restricting this, then perhaps it's time to find a new one.

Double Post:
And after further reading I can see that many people are giving you many different suggestions. I say try all of them; one or more might just work for you. Though, I recommend to try just one at a time, so that you are more effective at determining the impact of each thing. Sort of like the scientific method.

Try various mixed drinks, and remember that you're allowed to nurse one drink, even if the bartender might give you annoyed looks. Believe me, if you have a low alcohol tolerance, finding something you can stomach might take a little experimentation. Try sipping what your friends are having, if you don't want to order a whole drink. I hate alcoholic drinks, but I found the classic Screwdriver works well enough for me.

Or just drink Cokes, and tell people you have rum in it, with no one the wiser. Or rightfully claim that you're staying dry because you have to drive. Drinking is the socially acceptable thing to do, but nobody's twisting your arm.

Sass, don't you have a water fountain at work? There's water fountains in like every building in the industrialized world, and even out in public parks. You don't need your own water bottle.

Alternatively, you can also say that you had some bad experiences when you were younger and you don't feel comfortable drinking (or drinking anymore). People hate to be the asshole trying to force someone to drink when they have some sort of supposed emotional issue on the table.

I'm talking from experience here, DO IT. it is not something you really cannot do, Allow me to elaborate:
Basically in college (us: highschool) i was socially introverted, I had only had one "girlfriend" which i don't really count as a relationship, as i was young, and didn't have a clue what i was doing. I am still a virgin at 20, so i'm in a sorta similar position to you. At college i had "friends" but rarely to never went out with them, this was partly due to the fact that i lived relatively far from school and they were in close proximity from each other, so they could plan around that. I also felt inferior as because i was introverted, i lacked social skills, not in everyday situations, but i couldn't go to a club or anything like that. It just seemed impossible.
Then i left college, and came to university. In Freshers week (notorious for drinking) I decided to go with my flatmate for a drink. I met a girl who he was friends with, she said "you coming to the SU (student union, club like place)" I replied with my usual "iunno..." and she said "well you have a ticket, so what's the problem?" I snapped, said "Fuck it!" and just plunged straight in there. No social skills, no clue what the night would bring. It was the most exilurating night of my life. I met loads of people, many i can't even remember, and i also made one or two friends, So from experience i can tell you that generally speaking it's not as daunting as one would imagine.

I'm not saying that it's what you should definately go and do, but I just wanted to reassure that it's not as bad as you can imagine, i don't agree with the "cold turkey" analogy though, it doesn't sound right in my head.

Oh and regarding alcohol: one of my friends has gone to uni. She is completely tea total and physically cannot drink due to stomach problems. She has a raging social life, goes to bars, and it doesn't matter. If people go shitty on you cos you don't drink then move on, they're probably not worth it. Don't lie, just say that you don't feel like drinking tonight.

Too late to play that card, methinks...

^ Sheesh. Drinking is NOT going to solve your problems. Quit trying to think of ways to excuse your non-drinking habits, and fuck the people who can't handle it.

Yeah, seriously. People who think drinking is harmless and that anyone who disagrees simply has too many inhibitions are retarded. Even casual drinkers destroy brain cells, and no one should force you to drink if you don't want to. You're not going to solve your problems until you take matters into your own hands and exert an effort yourself. I wouldn't rely on intoxication to achieve that goal. :P

Erin is a study in confusion. She agrees with the ideology that you don't need to drink to have a good time, but goes out drinking almost all the time now (so it seems). She's even ended up driving home drunk a couple times in the past couple of months or drinking and driving. Moreover, when she goes out drinking, it's mostly with guys who treat her like crap and make her feel worse about herself. And here I am just trying to spend more time with her; if it involved drinking or being with people who drink, what's the harm, right? Well now I think this is the sort of behaviour she seeks in men, or just thrives on. She's going to build up enough frustration that she's going to explode, and if I'm a casualty of it then so be it.

I left her a voicemail on this issue and basically to seek a resolution in the whole matter of us. I basically told her if she doesn't like me then that's fine, but that she shouldn't expect me to not be worried about her, especially at a time when she seems heading down the downward spiral. I've been nothing but nice, respectful (depending on your point of view...), and empathetic towards her, but if all she wants or expects is guys who treat her like shit and she wants to loop me in with them then I want nothing to do with her.

Dude... stop obsessing over Erin. Seriously... you keep bringing her up and you are definitely going to be viewed as the creepy stalker type. Nothing is going to come of your continued obsession with her... except maybe a restraining order at some point.

Let her do her thing... you do your thing... and who knows, maybe somewhere down the road she'll contact you. But don't sit around expecting it. Go do things... meet people (bars... coffeehouses... etc)... realize that there is more to life than Erin Erin Erin. Besides, all dames named Erin are psychos anyway (or just the one's that I dated) ^_~

I've read/heard all this before. Maybe you should let me do my thing?

I probably am crazy for her, but until I come up with something to keep me occupied with my free time I'm not going to just drop her all at once. She's not giving me much reason to keep my obsession, however.

And yet you keep posting about it in here... seriously. If you don't want to hear/read people saying the same thing over and over again maybe this isn't the place to posting it. People are going to say what they want in here... period.

But rock on... do your thing... don't listen to the guy who is in his mid-30's and has a bit more time under his belt. But in that same mindset you might as well not even bother asking anyone else for their opinions either because you're just going to tell everyone to let you do your thing anyway.
You started this thread... and you could have simply let it disappear... but you chose to post again. You knew someone was going to say something... so before you pretty much tell me to piss off remember that you opened yourself up in here. Enjoy your misery...

I made this thread because ChocoJournal isn't around yet. You didn't have to read it, or post in it, nor did anyone else. I also made this thread as a reiteration of what's going on with me, so if you already knew then you shouldn't have bothered then, either.

I can't get over it because I'm confused about what is going on. She seems to like me enough to hang out with me once, and seems to be interested in me enough to want to hang out again, but then she turns around, tells me she doesn't want to hang out (on any given day, not necessarily in general), then goes out drinking and tells me about it days later. If she doesn't like me, why not just tell me? If she does like me, why not understand that I'm trying to help her at a time when it seems no one else will? Should I just leave her to destroy herself? Would any of you do the same?

Maybe what she's looking for and what you're looking for are two different things? Just be a friend... a non-judgemental ear... a shoulder... offer opinions, but not advise...
If you care enough about Erin then you will do just that and not think of your own wants or desires. It sounds like she isn't even sure of what she wants and might just need to have someone else to use as a sounding board. But in the end it's her call... not yours... and you have to respect her wishes.

Seems to me that if she doesn't know what she wants then how can I be sure of how to act with her? There's probably an obvious answer to that.

again I'll say it...
Nothing more...

If you're curious about whether or not she is interested in you, it would probably just be best to ask. If so, you can easily move on from there. If she's not, then you can just drop it and be friends or whatever.

I wouldn't even do that until she got her head on straight... which it does not seem to be from what I've read. Nothing worse then a relationship with someone who isn't quite ready for the emotions that go into a relationship... someone is going to get hurt... and badly.

Is she returning your calls? If not, leave her alone. She's not worth your time.

Also, do you have a picture of yourself, and this girl you speak of?

No, no and no. The one time she did return my call was one week after we hung out, after she concluded that I felt the time we did hang out was a date (in the romantic sense) and to clarify that she has no interest in that at this point in her life.

It's not like she's a mean-spirited person -- she was much different when we did hang out, even with the similar circumstances -- but I don't know where her head is at right now.

Here's how smitten I am with her and depressed about the whole thing: my friend and I were sitting in an intersection, returning from 4 hours of hanging out (with about an hour-and-a-half of pool that seemed extremely awkward and tense) and she drove by. Moments later my heart crashed into my stomach. I have lost it. I don't know why this keeps happening to me (meet a girl who seems to like me, put her on a pedastal only to have her jump down moments later) but I'd really like it to stop.

(To clarify: she's already said she's not interested in a relationship -- with anyone -- and that she wants to be friends. What seems to be the problem is my definition of friendship and her definition of friendship are a bit different, since her "friends" are the ones that have been dragging her down, not me.)

Maybe when you "put them on a pedastal" you're smothering them. Getting attention is great, but (as with just about everything) there's a limit.

I seem to remember reading that you're a virgin. Is this true?

Usually this happens with the first girl you've ever had a "date" with and are very much attached to.

Go with what she wants, and DO NOT smother her. Everything always starts off as a friendship, and girls are always saying they don't want a relationship. But there's always the possibility that she's rejecting you.

You're right. This is a really, really good way to tell if someone is interested in you for either friendship or a romantic relationship. Someone who doesn't return your calls is sending you a message. If she isn't calling you back, move on.

Just curious, but what does that have to do with anything?

Yes. I don't particularly feel the need to get laid, especially not just for the fuck of it. I don't think I need to get it out of the way, if that's what you're implying.

Oh, and her saying she's not wanting to be involved with anyone could EASILY be bullshit. Could be her way of letting you down easy. (It's another way of saying "It's not you; it's me.")

Fuck her. She's not into you. I'm 99.99% sure that the reason she's not is because you're obsessive.

You need to get laid, A LOT. When you're counting how many hours you hung out, you're too fucking uptight. I mean, when most people hang out, they're carefree and don't really pay attention to how long they've been do what activity/activities they were doing.

Some ass should break that habit. (At least for a little while.)

You don't need to "get it out of the way". You need to get it into your life.

I seriously doubt that getting laid is the answer for our friend. Imagine how obsessed he'd be with that one! Dopefish needs to learn to love himself and his life - with or without a girlfriend or alcohol or weed. When he does that, all the pieces will fall into place.

Can't love my own life if I'm not happy with it. But saying that is going to bring things that have already been said.

I don't think I'd want to have meaningless, casual sex, ever.

As cliche as it is, "happiness is a state of mind".

What good things do you have going for you?

Very sound advice!

There won't be any noticable change in your life externally, Dopefish, until you try to evolve internally first. Spend some time finding out what genuinely makes you happy and not what may make you happy.

Think about your past, your ambitions, and anything that makes you you. Once you're comfortable with yourself, with the good AND the bad, many of your problems will fade away.

Have you ever just stood infront of a mirror staring at yourself, searching for a spark in your own eyes? I recommend you try it and don't stop until you find something other than disdain looking back at you.

Good things about me and my life:

• I'm economically stable. (I live at home, but I could probably live by myself.)
• I'm happy that I have been able to not drink for as long as I have. The longer I go the prouder I am that I haven't drank, though that may be related to how social I'm not.
• I'm happy to be atheist and politically independant.
• I'm happy I'm not an idiot and I want to go to school.
• I'm happy people like me, even if it's just because I'm nice to everyone.
• I'm happy I'm not an asshole.

I think that's it...:p

The first, beaming thing I'd suggest is that you move out on your own.

This will allow you to grow in many ways.

Going to school (college, I assume) is another great idea.

Getting a hobby or taking up a sport would be another good idea.

You sound like you have a lot going for you. I think if you can somehow manage to loosen up a little, you're going to be fine. =)

Negatives:

• As mentioned, I can't seem to have more than one very good friend at a time, though I have had none.
• Socializing with women...with anyone, but specifically women...isn't a difficulty. Stepping past the "friendly acquaintance" stage and into something else is...something else.
• I'm obviously not too outgoing. I'm not shy, I'm not introverted...but I can't find a level to connect with most my peers on.
• I'm generally not like most guys my age in many ways. This is one thing that's both good and bad.

I'm not sure if that's it or I'm just being generous or if I can't be bothered to elaborate.

Double Post:
BTW, I'm both surprised and not that no one has asked what "tl;dr" means.

I'z just curious.

... By the way, if you're not introverted or shy ... I don't understand what your problem is. I thought that was your problem all along.

OH! Maybe your problem is you don't HAVE a problem!! Ever think of that!!? Jeezuz, man.

OK maybe I am somewhat introverted but I'm not shy. :p

Either way, I would think I do have a problem, as most people are capable of making friends.

Or your problems is yourself and the only person that can fix it is you. The worst thing you can do is try to make yourself feel victimized here.

And happiness is completely a state of mind. I know I could be completely miserable about 99% of the time if I hadn't taught myself how to be happy no matter how crappy things are..

I can see how the problem could be myself when it comes to women but not to guys.

Is it too obvious that what I really want is a relationship? :p

Pah you don't need a "relationship," that is so typical.

Get close friends, those are more ideal than "relationships"

Relationships only make your life feel like a living hell. Is that what you want? Just to raise hell for yourself?

Boy we've got a lot of jilted people on this board, don't we?

I'd like to be in love for once, not just infatuated with someone. Making close friends is all well and good but I'd like to go through the motions of a relationship just to have it happen.

Funny thing. I've heard this a few times in conversations with people, but they never go on further, as in HOW one gets "laid. A LOT.". Just an observance.

As for your situation. MOVE ON, OR KISS HER. If all else fails... try going to a single's bar... after all, people there are there for generally the same thing: Drinks and Meeting New People.

Love is such a fickle word, clearly misused and abused by our era. Love requires a mutual acceptance of both sides. Clearly love can never be gained (but infatuation easily) if the other side has no interest. If the other side has no interest in you, no matter how hard you try...you will never be able to procure this acceptance. Rather you would make the current relationship (friendship or whatever) worse.

Sounds about right. I'm 2-for-2 on proving that. :dotdotdot:

That was an idea (kissing her; moving on is still in the planning stages :p), but that's one time I know I wouldn't be happy with the result.

Not really.

You want, you want, you want. So go and get it. RR said what I've been saying to you all along - the only person who can fix this is you.

And you keep making excuses for yourself.
"Go out and find a hobby."
- But I don't have any interests!
"Go to school."
- But GOD, school? *Albeit, you said you're looking into it. I have no idea how serious you are about it, though. =/
"Make some new friends."
- But HOW?

These are things you should answer on your own. You're tying your own hands, and you're thinking too much about this shit. It's pretty clear that you DON'T seem like a very social animal. I can tell you the majority of the people on this board probably have little difficulty going out, talking to people, and making friends. I am not saying that you're WRONG AND BAD - I am saying you are probably overthinking shit WAY TOO MUCH.

Something to keep in mind... one cannot love another unless you first love yourself. If this were the sewers then that comment would be taken the wrong way... but here it's a simple phrase.
You clearly are not completely comfortable with where you are in life and have difficulty even making friends. Why try taking that huge leap into an intimate relationship with another person when you can't really have a casual relationship with others? It makes no sense to me...

And while you'd like to be in love and experience the highs and lows of being in love... don't force it. You want it but the harder you try to attain it the less likely you are going to find it. You've heard the saying right? Once you stop looking it will fall right in your lap, but while you are seeking love it will never be found.
Relax and let it come to you... otherwise you're going to turn into one of those weird creepy guys we all hear about on the local evening news who are wanted in connection with some bizarre sex crime that involves dustpans and nail polish...

How is it that I'm thinking too much about what hobby to take up or how to meet people? That's probably not what you mean, but not thinking about it at all would just mean accepting that this is what my life is going to be like at this time, which I'm obviously not willing to do.

Haven't we all concluded that it's obvious I can't? For whatever reason -- I don't have the mental capacity, I can't think outside the box (are those the same? :p), I don't have prior experiences to draw upon -- I can't come with an answer for my problems aside from going to school, which I seriously didn't want to go to for another reason other than to learn and not fuck up. College is a lot of money -- money I don't own and will be owing, whether I like it or not -- and if I'm not going with the focus being to become smarter (or with even a 50-50 focus) then all the self-applied pressure to do well AND meet people will (hopefully not but could) make me regret that effort. And I'd like not to leave school if all I have to show for it is just some new friends and a couple months of education.

Double Post:
I wasn't looking for 21 years. Either I missed the chance or one never presented itself...both are equally likely.

How can WE help YOU become more goddamned INVOLVED in life, then?

We can't. And that was both RR and my point.

So I guess the answer is just sit back, relax, and just go with the flow, because it's pretty obvious I can't do anything for myself.

You said it, not me.

The answer is: HELP YOURSELF. No one can do it for you.

You and me seem to like the idea of getting the last word in. I WILL DUEL YOU FOR HOURS IF I HAVE TO. ;)

I am not competing. I am telling you that only you can change the way your life is.

Did your parents not instill this in you?

(Incidentally, I'm off to Vegas about now. So you won't have to worry.)

My parents were more concerned about me doing better in school than anything else. I was even less apt to be social in school than I am now (which shouldn't come as a stretch, since I had very little self-esteem up until high school, when I started getting a little more).

Simple, making excuses for your current problems won't help anything. Simply accept your derelict state and do something out of the ordinary.

In fact, this is all tl;dr. Can you give a Cliff's Notes version?

If you can find a free and online version of that book, I'll read it. :p

Or go to a library.

So, what are you doing right now to alleviate your situation?

At this very second? Nothing. I'll go to work later, see if Erin got my voicemail and see if she wants to talk about it. Whatever happens, happens. The only thing I'm hopeful about now is trying to save face and salvage some sense of neutrality between us. Otherwise, I'll see if the other person I've been trying to hang out with wants to do so.

I'm thinking I should just suck it up and give up trying to make friends for the time being. If there's only two people that interest me and neither want to hang out then there's nothing I can do about it. No one's coming to me and asking if I'd like to hang out, and they never have...so what does that say about how people see me?

You misunderstood me. I wanted to know what makes you happy to be alive, rather than things in your life that make you happy. Notice the difference?

(I know I posted that like, a bunch of days ago! :p )

I don't see a difference.

Therein lies the problem, my friend!

You need to discover some purpose for your life in order to have success within your life.

Quoted for truth. Honestly, life is too short to drift.

Look. Find a purpose. I don't care what it is, you might want to really express youself through sculpture, do scientific research, learn to cook very well, whatever. What's important is to define yourself first -- if people like what they see in you, you'll find friends without having to force yourself into their lives. Having a passion for something can be an attractive quality.

If you're not willing to spend $10 to improve your life, you don't deserve it.

Edited for accuracy.

Yeah, but, surely something that could very possibly help you out is worth $10???

Since one half of that book is apparently about business and the other half is stuff I'm sure I'm fully capable of (I can talk to people, I'm definitely eloquent, people like me), no, it's not.

(Edit: Hey look! A Table of Contents of shit that already looks pretty much like what I'm capable of doing now! That would be an exploratory adventure in wasting :10bux: right there.)

So, my only problem is I need to find social situations and feel comfortable meeting random strangers.

Except everything you've been whining about with your life is exactly what he deals with in his book. There's a reason it's still one of the most popular books on Amazon even though he originally wrote it in 1936.

Not to mention if you're not willing to do something unless it'll help you for sure then you'll never get anywhere anyway.

Hell, maybe taking one of his classes would be a great social situation for you to be in.

I am going to try this. I probably drink less than 16 oz of water a day, with the rest of my fluids primarly being orange or apple juice, with some sugary grape juice in between. And I eat a lot of sweets. I know it's not healthy, so yea, this is the first step.

When I was little I used to go on this long periods of 'no sugar' when I'd feel that I took in too much. Sometimes going a month without anyway. Stress, depression, etc made it all the more difficult to maintain that habit.

I have one friend I've been hanging out with for months, and I seek people out to hang out all the time in the last few weeks. Other than that, yeah, I've never had a girlfriend and prospects haven't been peachy (though they are better than they've ever been).

Double Post:
Well, the ship has sailed for Erin and I to be friends...for the time being. The best excuse she could come up with was my initial foray into getting her attention was a little more aggressive than she was expecting, and she's uncertain where I stand as far as whether I want to be her boyfriend or just a friend. Looks like we're in for a looooooooooong cooldown period. I suppose I messed up by going as quickly as I did, but if Erin wasn't willing to accept that I was willing to accept being a friend, then there's not much I can do about that.

Meanwhile I also discovered today that she was talking about the details of my voicemail to her to someone at work (so now at least one person knows about it). Now the fun begins!

Wow. Are you ever a slow learner. And thick-headed, too!

How many times are you going to ask for advice, ignore it, and then realize that O SHIT, THAT ADVICE WAS PRETTY GOOD.

This entire thread - ENTIRE THREAD - is full of advice. And yet, you're even refusing to read a book that was recommended to you. Because "you know everything" that the book offers advice on. Which would mean that your thread here is bullshit. Oops.

Pick a side. Stick to it.

Incidentally, it was written in 1936, RR? I think I will have to read this, now. It couldn't help, considering my VERY ANGRY DISPOSITION.
Maybe you'll learn after this.

You're a creepy guy. You really should consider the book RR recommended.

That is actually a great book. I have an e-book for it and an audio book. Haven't finished it, though.

I get all sorts of results for Mr. Carnegie's book on a search of the public library's database here. This is a fairly old book, so it should be in wide circulation, as I see there have been many printings of it. And public libraries are free! Now you really have no excuse.

Tsk, somebody's got it checked out a month overdue...

I am going to predict the excuse: "I have no time to go to the library." or possibly "I have no library card."

I would offer to BUY this book for this kid, just to shut him up about this Erin chick and how GOD AWFUL he is at accepting flaws. But I don't think I will.

It wouldn't be much trouble for me to give it to him, if he's interested.

Fuck that shit. Give it to me. (Especially if its an eBook.)

Pang may even want to read some of it. He reads everything, you know.

Actually, despite his persona, it seems to me that Pang would be an amicable (although perhaps antisocial) guy in real life.

Anywho, I can give it to multiple people, since it's only data, not an actual book.

I think this post will have a disrespectful taste in it, but it's not meant that way. Seriously, what do you do all day? You told us you would "do nothing" - as in ceasing to exist? Don't you have any hobbies? Or things you like to do?

Excuses. You say you're socially inept yet you don't have a problem talking to someone. So what is your problem? Do you even want to find friends (with an explanation, please)?

About the drinking thing - I think noone here will try to make you an alcoholic. But one drink won't have a big impact on your life. Just try it, maybe you like it, maybe you don't. If you don't know what to order, try an alcopop. It's like lemonade, just that it destroys brain cells. Personally I hate beer with a passion but that's my taste. Another thing: Do you also base the "I-can't-find-friends"-theory on the fact that you don't drink alcohol?

Great idea. You should just do it for the sake of it rather than wanting to change your life. Otherwise it would seem quite forced, you know? I suggest volunteering for something if you have time for it. Helping others is a great thing and (maybe!!) finding friends would be just a positive side-effect.

First you seek a helping hand, then you reject it and say you're simply not capable of making friends. Guess what? Everyone is. Everyone can find someone who likes him. There are 6000000000 people on the earth. Don't tell me that no one likes you. So the "I-can't-do-it-on-my-own"-card doesn't work here, you could have just used it if you're shy.

See above.

If that's your problem then you're just underestimating yourself. What are you afraid of? Your life doesn't seem like you could lose anything at the moment (you said you're not happy with it, not me).

Again, this whole post is not meant to be disrespectful. The others brought some very inspiring advice. Please, do something about your life. :) The way you live it at the moment you just throw it away.

He's a pretty considerate guy, really. He just keeps to himself an awful lot.

And how many "friends" do you think Pang has?

Case closed. ^_^

Well, yeah, but what I'm saying is that he seems like a loner by choice. This book is mostly for people who frequently piss other people off and don't understand why. Or for people who want to know what to do in order to climb the ladder at work.

I was on Pang's friends list! Does this count for anything? =D

WELL THEN! I could certainly use that, COULDN'T I? ^_^ (Though I realize why I piss people off)

And it really couldn't help our dear friend Dope here. Maybe we could create a hobby for him in reading. Thats a completely valid hobby, no? (I don't even know anymore)

And PeePee, I have no idea. ;_;

He wrote it as a textbook for the course he originally taught at a local YMCA in New York. He found there were no really good books on the subject, so he took his background as a biographer (I think he claims to have read something like 80 books on Lincoln alone) and used examples from other peoples' lives to show what methods worked for them. He'll point out a trend in how they behave, throw in some good quotes from successful people, and generally makes a pretty convincing argument.

If you're going to buy a book, I recommend the one I linked to at buy.com. It has two of his best books together in hardback for about as much as you'd pay for one of them in paperback.

If I was on my desktop I'd send you the text file I made with my favorite passages from the book. Here's one of the lines that struck me the most while reading the book (I remembered enough of this one to google for it).

Dopefish, here's the bottom line. If you whine in real life about your situation half as much as you've done in this thread, no one is going to want to be around you. You have to be positive.

I've noticed a trend among young people - especially boys - to try to win sympathy points by wallowing in self-pity. The harsh truth is, that doesn't work. Any girl with an ounce of self-respect is going to be repulsed by a guy who constantly harps about how lonely and socially inept he is.

Tell people often enough how much you suck and pretty soon they'll start to believe it.

Thankfully I'm not as bad in real life as I am on here.

How old are you, Dope?

Twenty-two.

Perfect. This weekend, go to a bar with some friends, get some alcohol in you and try approaching some girls. Let us know how it goes, too.

Scenario:
You're playing pool, darts or whatever, and you see group of girls playing too. Go over and ask if they can teach you some pointers, or (if you can play) offer advice. Introduce yourself. Ask what the girls' (preferably the one you're most interested in) are into, where they work, how old they are, etc. Tell them some of yours.

In general, it's a good idea to stay away from politics and religion for topics. (Some say you should NEVER bring either of these topics up in a bar, actually.)

Don't talk about previous love interests, either. (Will make it seem like you're still into them.)

As people are saying, just TRY SOMETHING. Try the book. Try talking to some women you don't know. Seriously. This isn't an exact science. (Thankfully.)

You can't screw up if you don't try, but you can't succeed without trying, either. Loneliness is worse than rejection. (Tell yourself that if you get discouraged from approaching girls.)

So, let me get this straight: go to a bar with my one friend, who is 20 and has a girlfriend already.

AWESOME PLAN.

More excuses?

Actually, that's good, too. They can be the designated driver. That, and he (probably) won't be stealing any of your prospects.

He doesn't have a license. :D

You just want attention, don't you?

I don't see YOU resisting either way...

So that's a yes. Everyone should just stop trying to help you, you don't seem to like anyone's advice anyhow.

Well, now that you've admitted you're doing it just for attention, perhaps the right *cough* authorities could step in.

And I am not talking about staff, either.

I haven't said anything. But this topic is dead anyway.