Japanese Scientists Play God
 

Quite literally.

My mind is absolutely fucking blown.

Probably fake, but whatever.

This just seems so over-the-top ridiculous that it's funny.

I find that to be fucking awesome.

Soon we can finally market marbles with little universes within them.

Even with a understanding of things like String Theory, this just simply goes well beyond my comprehension.

I hope something educational comes out of it, and that the scientists are right that the experiment will be completely safe.

I wouldn't like it either if we hear in the news that Japan has disappeared all of a sudden.

Interesting, but later in the article it says that the whole thing would happen so quickly that absolutely nothing would be observed. How then could you even tell if it was a success?

'Kay, good luck with finding one of those.

Aw, I'd prefer bouncy balls. Marbles hurt like a bitch, but those bouncy balls with a picture of Saturn and what-not inside them are mmm mmm chewy! =)

Exactly what I was thinking, they would have to refine their observational equipment considerably to even witness it. Also I don't understand how they can proclaim it completely safe. How can they know that until the damage is done; it's not like anything of the sort has been done before...

I read something about this in New Scientist. Something about this kind of experiment worries me, but I have my doubts as to their chances of being successful.

http://www.newscientistspace.com/cha...-universe.html

String Theory - heh, someone in japan obviously understands that now

Had a whole discussion about this with a housemate. Some mega complicated shit but bloody interesting

This is neat. It's ironic too, because I just recently within the last few months read a science fiction novel about an experiment exactly like this going awry. Hot. <3

Is there anyway I can read up on this subject? Because, let me tell you, to a layman, that whole explaination made no fucking sense.

But I AM intrigued, admittedly.

Reality is stranger than fiction.

I have a strange feeling in my stomach while reading this oO

So the Japanese have made it to Mormon heaven where they're space gods that rule over their own universes... awesome.

It's a considerable upgrade from the ant farm.

Intresting, but how do they plan to create a universe when they dont even fully understand how one works?

also...

the particle accelerator that would prove the higgs field theory isnt even finished yet. and its in switzerland, not japan.

Sweet shit. Sounds like something straight out of a sci-fi anime... o.o;

Any word on how they're going to do it? With hypothetical particles with near-magical properties whose discovery alone would change the conceptions of the laws of the universe?

Well hell, if that's it, why has it taken them so long?


Hurrah for QUESTIONS. But seriously, theoretical physics really bugs me. It's interesting farfetched and all, but until it's actually proven, it sounds like bad science fiction and people are willing to believe it because "scientists said so."

Is it just me, or does anyone else think it's a bad thing that scientists now have to assure us that the fabric of space-time won't be ripped apart by their experiments?

Join the club, shit always seems like it could hit the fan with these new "discoveries" and "experiments" taking place...

If the Japanese blow up our universe with paradox trying to do this, I'm gonna be mighty pissed.

Thankfully, the Japanese are the smartest beings in the universe, so I guess I'll trust them to this for the time being . . .

I would have to agree. While this may be very interesting, and shows that we, as humans, have advanced in our studies to the point of where we might actually do ourselves more harm then good. If this experiment goes wrong, there could be dire consequences, and I do not even want to imagine how many lives would be at stake for such a cause. Some things should not be tampered with, and I believe that this is one of them. Though, if the earth was to even become inhabitable, then maybe this research would be of some use. Other then that, I am not really to sure this is a stable idea.

Don't worry, if it turns out to be a disaster, the survivors will invent time-travel and go back to stop them from trying the experiment.

Why is all of this starting to sound like some corny SCIFI film or anime? :lolsign:

Because it's JAPAN.

There's a short story that addresses the planned creation of a micro-universe in the book Vacuum Diagrams by Stephen Baxter. If I recall correctly, it did not end well. I belive that one of the races that evolved in the universe figured out what was going on, became enraged, and attempted to destroy our universe.

That's what we should really be doing: find the aliens that created our universe in a lab, and then decide to wage war against them.

Erm... This sounds like playing god alright. Without any solid idea on how to control this power, I don't really see this going well.

The least that could happen if something goes wrong is that we just blow up the planet and possibly the solar system.

That's very interesting though. Reminds me of the Futurama when Professor Farnsworth created a universe inside a box, and then there ended up being many other universes.

And if it happens in sci-fi, it happens in real life.

This is science class, philosophy of morality is down the hall. Whether it's right or it's wrong, the possible implications of creating a universe are astounding. It would force the entire perspective concerning creation to be shifted, reexamined. Also, the christian right would just be so pissed.

First off: What? If the earth was to even become inhabitable? The earth IS inhabitable. You're on it RIGHT NOW, breathing up my air and wasting my internet. Secondly, not sure it's a stable idea? was Nuclear fission a stable idea? How about the idea of space travel? We had no idea what would happen if we punched a craft towards the moon, but we did it anyway.

I don't fully understand tornados, but I can create one with two 2L pop bottles and some water.

Let me explain. No, is too much. Let me sum up: Will they pull this off? No. They can't even be sure if it works or not, they can't measure it. Is it a cool theory? Oh hells yea, and one that may one day lead to all sorts of interesting discoveries. Stop acting like the sky is falling on your heads and show a little interest in progress. If you want to avoid risks at all cost, go be Amish and build a fucking barn. The rest of the class wants to create a motherfucking universe

Oh yeah. This is so going to kick those anti-cloning ppl into high gear.

More than you might think. Alot of the writers of hard science fiction are prominent individuals in their field of of academia and the things they write about are not mere baseless speculation.

When the day comes, don't forget that you're the one that suggested it.

I agree 100%, i just worry about what may happen. we know very fucking little about the nature of the universe. is it a cool idea? like you said, hells yeah. i just doubt their ablity to pull it off safely/at all.

They can't even do it. Like Dhsu pointed out, they need a monopole for the experiment. In other words, they need a magnet with only one pole, and according to current physical theory, is impossible to find. It might be possible to create it artificially, but then that would be how they'd intend to create this new universe, I suppose.

Didn't the Ancients in Stargate do this once?

I know that, but just because there's a short story about robots coming to life and killing their creators doesn't mean it REALLY HAPPENED.

That's because it's called Science Fiction, you fucking ponce. The better sci-fi writers knew how humanity would make science work in the first place. Asimov always felt that the problems of progress would be solved by wisdom, and as a result put out the Three Laws of Robotics.

If we created a universe that operated on a time-space continuum more advanced than our own, and eventually a species would come into being that would recognize that their universe was created in a lab of ours, then sure why not? Stranger stuff has happened, and it's been perpetrated by humans.

That problem doesn't exactly apply here, though, becuase as soon as the mini-universe breaks off from our own it stops existing within our universe. It won't be invisible in a lab or some shit, it'll have its own space-time continuum. To us and the rest of the universe at large, it won't for all practical purposes exist.

As cool as this sounds, I'm still pretty worried. I mean I don't wanna wake up one day and then STOP BEING. I haven't even gotten laid yet and the Japanese wanna risk blowing up the universe.

I'd rather they just find Zohar and make a colony ship escorting a super bio-weapon called Deus. At least THEN I know I'll be reincarnated, albeit artificially, with super ether powers and giant mechs.

Meh, I would just rather be a bio-weapon corrupted by the one thing it was meant to fight, then I could rip my head off and pop it in front of people...while doing that creepy laugh...but that is just me.

Hey, if this does go wrong and destroy the universe, at least it will be quick and painless :P

You say that like you've experienced a universe-destroying event before. We don't know! It's all theory and numbers that might not even exist!

It would be pretty rad if it was like some totally euphoric feeling and then PLOOP. BAD END.

Oh, actually if it somehow destroys our universe, then it essentially means it didn't conform to any of our current theories, so it might just as well stop time completely after distorting space in ways we cannot understand in the entire universe for a few moments, enough for us to feel it, and thus essentially freeze everything in an eternity of unimaginable pain.

EDIT: Seems like Kurado posted before I did.

Those Japanese really have no limit to their genius. I'm sure tomorrow they'll create a machine that instantly creates full-scale pyramids, and the day after discover to secret to teleportation. :biggrin:

A far-out concept, this notion of a mini-universe existing indepednently of our own. Can't say I really understand everything stated in that article, but I have to agree with the other posters in the respect that science has only evolved from risks taken. This would be no different.

And hey, if it does go wrong, at least we'd most likely die instantaneously.

At least I hope.

It should be noted that the other "risks taken" involved injury to the inventor or scientists in question. Even when they dropped the H-Bomb, there was only a fear that it would destroy the Earth's atmosphere, not something that could wipe out our entire section of the galaxy, if not the universe.

Well there is another possibility . . .

IF the Christians are right and their God is the God, then He might come down and say "HEY! You are NOT allowed to do that, fuckers! RESPECT my AUTHORITAH!" and then send Japan the way of Atlantis.

Who knows, maybe that's what actually happened to Atlantis, if it existed . . .

If nothings observable anyways... let just play it safe; lets not make one and say we did, mk? oh, and in your notes, be sure to mention high radiation, fields, instability, and w/e will keep you crazy scientists from trying things that affect our fabric of existance. I don't like this idea one bit...

No, you have to think that anime scifi is the real reality and we would just make one small step towards this sophistication. Japan being the initiators of course.

Haha, and you wonder how our universe was created? :P

Even though they're stating that it wouldn't affect our universe, imagine if they were wrong. That'd be a neverending nightmare.

No kidding. But look on the bright side, we will probabley not know what happens if the universe does end. Most things in the universe happen to fast for us to percieve with our own senses after all.

I need to get a stamp that says that.

Interesting theory. Although there are somethings that should not be tampered with....and this is one of them. I mean they may say that it won't ruin our space-time continuum, but what's to say if one number/symbol is in the wrong place or they forgot something? I mean it's happened in the past, but if this thing goes wrong with this exsperiment, it's going to be on a MUCH larger scale.

As I said, it's interesting and it sort of creeps me out a little. But I won't loose any sleep over it :shh: ....

I could just imagne some japanese guy with a shoe box saying that there is a universe in the box BUT YOU CANT LOOK AT IT BECAUSE YOU WILL DIE!, and then everyone takes his word for it.

Hah, like the Samurai who apperantly invented integral and differential calculus 300 years before the fact but never told anyone because he didn't want anyone to think he was too superior. :tpg:

Gimme a break. This is pointless and stupid.

wtf samurai? and that has what to do with this?

You people need to settle down. Our universe isn't going to end. Not for an incomprehensable amount of time. Considering how these scientists are smart enough to hypothetically do this thing in the first place, then I will take their word for it that the only downside is that it will happen too quickly to even observe. The sky isn't falling.

I bet you all freaked at Y2K, too.

People aren't freaking over fear, their freaking over the uselessness of it all.

The samurai bit comes in in it happening too fast, etc. It's like me saying I am the greatest genius of all time, and that I have invented a source of infinite wealth, but I am not going to tell you about it. Will you call me a genius?

This sort of thing has always made me wonder. Is this what our own universe/multiverse amounts to? Someone's science project? Are we like micro-organisms upon something far more massive? Then the question becomes not, "what created out universe?" but rather, "what created the universe in which something created our universe?"

Maybe there's even some odd loop taking place; like a child-universe is somehow the father to the father of its father-universe.

Are you serious?

That crap doesn't strike you as idle speculation?

Think about it: even IF this universe was created, and even IF it is nothing compared to what it resides in, it is still infinite in our scale. Consider the fact that there are billions of years of KNOWN geological history and that it would take us billions of years to reach most stars.

Ok. Don't you think speculating beyond what we can SEE is just fucking wild talk? I mean, it sounds like stoner-talk to me.

Also:

The universe, by definition, is the only one of its kind.

someone doens't have any imgination.


besides, if you make one thing pointless, then i can make everything pointless. Our existance is pointless. why worry about anything? why speculate on anything? of course it doesn't mean anything. It's just entertainment.

just kill yourself all ready.

Therein lies the problem. It's NOT all pointless. As a matter of fact, most research is admirable and very usefull. In fact, I am majoring in biology, and I hope to become a research scientist.

Playing around with theoretical physics to create something so miniscule it cannot even be MEASURED is pointless. It's not even science. That's why it's pointless.

God, you're boring.

I don't know much about science; I prefer to look at many things in a philosophical way because I acknowledge possibilities and massive amounts of uncertainty. I'm going to guess that this sort of thinking has something to do with science.

Wow.


I was under the impression that Maxwell's equations precluded the existence of a magnetic monopole (zero divergence of magnetic field), but apparently Dirac found that the existence of a single magnetic monopole would quantize all electric charges. However, I can't imagine how one would go about finding or creating such a thing.

Everyone here needs to chill, have a Coke, and a smile.

The chances of the universe actually being destroyed by this experiment is nigh impossible.

How do I know, you ask? Simply because these scientists know what they're doing. If they didn't, no one in their right mind would've funded this project.

Even if they somehow blow everything up, God (or whatever you want to call the being that created everything) would just create everything again.

Although, if you're an atheist, then this whole thing would sound pretty sketchy to you, I suppose.

Yeah, they sure know what they're doing tampering with theoretical physics that they don't even know will work or not.

There's no guarantee of that, and you're stupid for thinking so. But no, I must have no imagination and must be hella boring because I'm not dribbling shit from my lip with Crystal Meth in my system questioning whether or not the universe would cease to exist when it ceases to exist.

They know more about it than you and anyone else in this thread, that's for sure.



Right... :rolleyes:

Whatever, dude. It's useless to be worrying about something that won't happen.

I gotta side with Bradylama on this one. As much as I say "sign me up" for the aforementioned reasons, realistically speaking, I think this stunt is beyond stupid.

Here is my thinking, after getting rid of all religious bias: Let's, for a moment, ignore the fact that a small miscalculation could destroy the universe. What, pray tell, do we have to gain by creating a universe in a box? Nada. Does it disprove the existence of God? Most Atheists would say so, but not me. I may be an Atheist, but I'm not so closed-minded as to think God can't exist, I just don't believe he does, while leaving my mind open to the possibility that I could be wrong. (It's organized religion I really have a gripe with, not God, as I do believe there is a creator out there, be it an all-powerful deity or something else.) Anyway, God is supposed to be omnipotent, meaning he can do anything. Just because we can do something that seems godlike to our meager existences does not mean God couldn't have done it. God can probably play basketball, too, but that doesn't stop us from doing it.

Basically, this wouldn't disprove or prove anything and is a waste of research money that I think is better spent elsewhere, like stem cell research and finding a cure for AIDS. Important things.

You mean you want more scientists on that shit?

Sorry, but having all the scientists in the world working on cures for AIDS, concer and whatnot won't get them cured any faster.

And what about all those non-medical/biological scientists that you apparently want working on that shit. Yeah, curing AIDS is certainly within their grasp.

Perhaps, but it's not like they'll stop the project, especially at this stage.



Funny, that's almost the same way I am (except I'm not an atheist).

I don't belong to any religion at all.

I have an idea of God and (if he/she/it exists) they must have an idea of me. That's enough, I think.

However, I am open to the possibility that God doesn't exist.



I concur, but what can you do?

Maybe the only reason they're doing this is for the "cool" factor and they know that there's no real point to the experiment.

It's not pointless to have an entire universe man-created. It creates a lot of significant scientific and philosophical ramifications. How is it worthless proving our own god-like abilities? I mean, it's a whole new universe.

It doesn't disprove religion, though. What it would do is give scientific plausibility to the concept of creationism.

What makes it a pointless excercize, though, is that there's no way to measure the process of creation, let alone whether or not a universe has actually been created. Even after the experiment is done, the entire affair remains wholly theoretical. Not only that, but it's an experiment that runs the danger of destroying the universe as we know it, regardless of how miniscule the risk is.

Relying on the words of scientists who don't want to lose their grant money is retarded. They can say they know what they're doing all they want, the fact of the matter is that they couldn't possibly know because all of the physics involved are theoretical.

Proving our "god-like" abilities in this case is pointless because it does nothing more than what it sets out to do. That's right. Most scientific research is based upon experimental proof, and empericism. This allows us to discover what is the purpose of things, and how effective these things are compared to other things, based on hard data.

This universe deal is pointless because once achieved, all you get is the ability to say you did it. Read the end of the article: It says this would be done in such a miniscule scale and the "universe" would collapse so quickly we would not be able to measure it properly - if at all.

I am not one to believe in infinite human potential, but who knows what this might lead to should it work. Can anyone really say? The creation of matter, the changing of matter to energy and vice versa. Who knows, the cure for cancer might even come out of this. It is just a large unknown. In the past, when someone has been killed because they were probing into the unknown, it was just usually a very bad thing. Ever hear of Ptolemy?

The guy has calculus figured out 500 years before Newton comes along. Granted he was not killed because he was probing, but what if he had published what he had found? What if we just let these scientists go on with the experiment.

I don't think I was the only one who pictured the opening sequence of Akira while reading all this, but I'm not really worried. Spectacular fiction aside, in reality energy and matter have a neat way of keeping each other in check, so I won't hold my breath for the wacked out chain reaction that teleports half of our atmosphere into the sun.

You never know, it could have been the same way our universe was created, some guy in a lad could have said 'I'm board, lets make a universe for the heck of it' and BOOM! The big bang happened.

My cousin and I however think her closet is a man-made black hole, I sware anything we put in there is missing the next day!

This sounds a bit... umm frightening at a glance. I don't know much about this kind of theory but wouldn't there be *some* sort of limitation in regards to amount of dimensional space available? Couldn't theoretically there be crossing over of universes on other dimensional planes?

Interesting. I don't really believe that it would be possible. But then again, I am not a scientist or anything. However, if this does become a reality, I hope it doesn't destroy the world or anything. The worst part about experiments and technology, is sometimes it doesn't work right and something really bad happens.

When you start playing around with things that have large amounts of potential energy, etc., you start playing with fire a bit. I hope their educated research and hypotheses are correct.