Clarification Requested (Donations)
 

As was stated in Bobo's webspace, donations for the return of GFF amounted to US$1,120. This was raised to pay off the $1,350 debt for the old $400/month GFF server.

However, since we have not been able to recover anything from the old server, was the amount of the donations used to pay off the old host? Was it used for down- and pre-payment of the current ~$300/month server?

Requesting for clarification! :)

bobo is using it for this year's trip to Cancun. Spring break is in 2 weeks, right bobo?

BUMP!

Re-requesting for clarification please!

Pfft... Don't you know, now that GFF is back up, bobo has vanished again~

I told you that it was for bobo's spring break vacation. You guys didn't learn the last time, did you?

:chocosponsor:

Yeah we did, we just didn't listen to you.

::Sir VG posts::

::Noone cares::

He's incommunicado.

I've PMed him about Google AdSense and how he needs to do it NOW. No reply.

Did you genuinely think that you'd get a reply?

Wow impressive how he seems to actually care about his own boards... we pay for his vacation and he won't even reply. I believe bobo should look up the term 'resign' somewhere soon

How long have you been here.

You may not listen, but I'm not the one suckered out of $1100+.

Nah, just wanted more evidence that he's a shitty admin.

Where do we go from here, then?

Even though we have a cheaper server ($300/month), this is not going to stop the need for another $1200 donation drive four months from now...

I think it was Blah I remember saying that admins could easily put adsense code into the forum display. Maybe this could happen if Bobo doesn't show for long enough. Although there's maybe the problem of getting the money from the ads to Bobo's host. If GFF does go down again because of missed payments and the like, the admins are at least this time (hopefully) keeping regular backups. Also most people know about Serious Business Forums if GFF goes down.

3 years ? Maybe 4... but I haven't actually taken the time to care... yet...

Last I recally, it wasn't a single person that donated the money.

And I didn't donate. So what now.

Wrong answer. I was expecting you to admit you're an idiot.

That's how these boards have always ran. bobo goes on a year-long vaction, we post.

Aside from the donations, there are numerous other things that need clarification.

1. Who is responsible for backups and how often will they be produced?

2. What happened to the 2005 backup that was supposed to be integrated as an archive?

3. When is ChocoJournal being reinstated? "Soon" isn't exactly precise.

4. What kind of access level do admins have now? What kind of things can be done Bobo's absence (= always)?

5. AdSense!?

It's just that I don't really feel very comfortable posting here as of late and even though I'm in no position to demand answers to these questions, I'd be very thankful if there was some sort of plan involved with managing GFF this time around.

Not really. Before mid-2002 or so he was around all the time and was actually a pretty good member.

nub.

True that, RR. College is what did him in. =p

Damn drinking buddies is what did him in.

1. Who is responsible for backups and how often will they be produced?

Bobo, once a year.

2. What happened to the 2005 backup that was supposed to be integrated as an archive?

Seperate forum, not integrated. Also, bobo is too drunk to actually put it up.

3. When is ChocoJournal being reinstated? "Soon" isn't exactly precise.

When bobo sobers up and gets back from his vacation. (Read: 3 Months)

4. What kind of access level do admins have now? What kind of things can be done Bobo's absence (= always)?

Supposedly they're getting FTP Access. Right now, probably nothing but a limited admin panel.

5. AdSense!?

We should give up hope on this. Chocosponser July is coming soon anyway.

What is Chocosponser July?

And will it keep GFF paid for and running?

jeremy

Take a wild guess.

More donations?

Great.

http://www.justblowme.com/images/smilies/moon.gif

jeremy

I say one of you admins go ahead and get Adsense for GFF. Hold the money in trust for bobo, and produce it when the inevitable drive for more donations come :biggrin:

I like this idea. Is it possible for Blah or Styphon or Miles to implement it themselves instead of having to wait for our retarded leader to return?

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Would bobo even notice this anyway? We could have generated a lot of revenue during the last two weeks. That's money down the drain now, because bobo chose not to act.

I am going to set up the account today, guys. We'll run this for a month and then I'll send the money to bobo through paypal to show him how useful it is. That should change his mind I think~

As for the backup, it is completely restored and up on the server. I also turned off posting and did some setup for bobo. He asked me to keep the url to myself for now since he planned on releasing it himself. I could release it now but the problem is I don't know what his intentions are. Does he wanna use some of the leftover chocosponsor money to buy an additional license key to make it legal to do? Is he just gonna release the url and hope no one reports it to vb? I'm just gonna wait a little bit longer on that one. The backup WAS fully restored though and you guys will be able to log into your old accounts there as well.

Here's a better idea Miles. Keep the money until he requests it or needs it for another donation drive. Giving the man money when there is no urgent request for it is even stupider than giving it to him when there is.

Quoted for Truth.

And don't worry Miles, Jelsoft is on illegal vBs like fly on shit. The archive will be shut down in no time, unless special precautions are taken. Though I assume Bobo hasn't done any of them.

How about no. I am not keeping the money unless bobo puts the server bill in my hands. Having him pay the server bill and keeping the money earned off ads here to myself isn't a method I would consider at all. What I could do is send him enough money to pay the bill each month and whatever is left (if there is any left) could be saved and used to fund future GFF projects (such as an additional license to run the GFF archive).

It'll take longer than a month actually, since they only send you the PIN code after $50 is accrued. Then after you're verified, they only send out payments after the $100 mark, near the end of the month. So it's most probably a 2 month wait.

Thats fine. I wasn't even aware that I'd have to wait a few days for an email from google before we could put the ad up in the first place. As soon as I get the email we should have a google ad set up. :)

Nah, it's usually just a one-day wait for the initial email.

I must say that I'm sure glad we all came back to bobo's version of GFF when, you know...he's not going to do things to keep it running financially and...well, he's not going to actually implement anything and...er, oh yeah, he's not actually going to be around.

This plan was A+++++.

Here's an even better idea.

Give all the money generated from Google AdSense to the people who donated the $1000+ to bring GFF back.

Then when that has been paid off, send the rest to bobo.

Except that would require to get some sort of list of donators and amounts from Bobo. That's pretty much pointless as I doubt Bobo would give that out.

Bobo can be faulted for many things, but he sure is magnanimous. Not many people would still keep you on staff were they in Bobo's position, BlueMikey, after the things you've been saying. Not that I disagree with you now, mind you. Just sayin'.:biggrin:

Regardless, I'm glad this is moving along. I think the priority is GFF first, and donors second. By all means, those who donated the money to get us back up should be repaid, but only if the amount of cash from advertising is more than sufficient to cover GFF's running costs. Make sure the cash flow is sufficient and stable enough before paying 'dividends'.

You are a stupid, stupid man sometimes. Before I would even think of giving the man one cent from the adsense, I'd make sure you have some kind of undeniable proof that he's spending that money on the running of the site. You want some sort of insurance? Send it directly to the webhosts. You'd be a fucking moron not to.

I am quoting this for truth. Nothing else needs to be said.

That's a hell of an idea, actually. Those people deserve to have their stolen money back.

And unlike what Stealth said, there just might be a way to get a list of donators. (At the very least, it would be a partial one.)

The donation drive was run by Paypal. The people who sent Bobo money would have Paypal receipts in their account transaction history. Provide proof that you donated money, and get some of it back. Provide the receipt and for how much, and the Adsense money could be wired to you.

This won't work for the people who donated via other methods, but I'd imagine most of the donating was via the Paypal method anyway. (And if it wasn't, shame on you if you didn't keep your transaction receipts.)

Bobo probably doesn't even know BM is pissed at him, and even if he did, he doesn't care enough to do anything about it. Besides, BM's a refreshing breath of fresh air after trying to decipher what Miles is saying between his mouthfuls of chocopenis.

And it should not be called dividends, it should called reparation payments.

Didn't think about the receipts actually, but anyone with HTML knowledge can pretty much doctor a fake receipt up. Not too difficult.

Perhaps there is a way using Paypal to forward them? Or request a duplicate of an invoice/bill be forwarded to a different email that would act as further proof?

Checking around on my paypal account, I can't seem to find any way to have Paypal forward an invoice copy to someone's email. Maybe emailing tech support or something.

Unless someone outright told him, I doubt bobo knows that I've said anything. He might if he reads this thread when he checks back in, what, weeks after the last visit.

sup lurker


Edit: (Or what JUST DECLARED WAR said.)

I think bobo had you among my mutinous crew, BM.

For fuck's sake. If spending $50 to keep up a site you visit for the better part of everyday and have had many years of enjoyment out of is such a big fucking deal to you then I suggest you either don't pay in future and let Gamingforce die or you shut up and fuck off to some other forum where they don't ask you for money.

It's not like bobo came to your house and forced $50 out of you at gunpoint. He made a request for cash and some of us thought it was a worthwhile cause.

$50 is fuck all money in the grand scheme of things. I donated not to become some shareholder or get an email proxy or for some gay little icon, I donated because I've spent almost 5 years posting on these forums for a total cost of nothing and I didn't feel it was such an onerus request to donate a bit of cash to the upkeep of the place, especially if that meant keeping the site running.

So what if bobo has taken the money and gone on holiday? I couldn't give a fuck what he's spending it on. God knows how much of his own money he's spent on this site over the years and for what? He doesn't even post here much any more, he gets nothing in return but a bunch of whiny kids having a go at him for taking a couple of weeks to restoring some backup nobody will ever read and for not providing some kind of fucking budget so you lot can pick holes in his spending habits.

I just can't believe how fucking ungrateful some of you cunts are. bobo owes you nothing. No explanations, no time commitments and no money. If you're not happy to wait a bit until he's sorted some stuff out then please, fuck off. Gamingforce will be all the better for each one of you mardy fucks that never comes back.

Quoted for truth, motherfuckers.

A lot of you are doing some hefty bitching for things that don't really NEED to be bitched about.

If you don't like what Bobo may or may not be doing with your cash, don't give any to him. Just as you wouldn't give any to a cause you didn't support.

We get it, you don't trust him, okay okay okay. Some of us are appreciative that he bothered running the place for no cost to us for years upon years. Personally, I've gotten enough out of this place to be able to put up with him. Yea, it can get annoying. Yea, its not always honest. But this place is WORTH a little hassle.

He's gone up and beyond the call of duty in the past, but now, you're all ready to crucify him over very little? How many of you bitching actually GAVE a substantial amount of money to him?

I gave plenty. And I am not feeling too horribly jilted. And I am easy to jilt.

Thank you Shin and Sass. Your posts match my thoughts exactly.

I'd greatly appreciate it if you bobo haters kept your trash out of these forums. We've heard your same bullshit over and over enough times already and its getting very annoying. If you still wish to whine about the donations then do so at the serious business forums.

I also feel it may be worthwhile pointing out that Bobo was posting yesterday on the forums about features that he will soon be adding. All y'all seem to be saying that he's dissapeared, and/or abandonned his forum, but is that really the case? It sounds like once he gives his admins FTP access, and gets the Google adverts up and running, he won't need to be around that much.

On the subject of Google ads, watch out, because I hear bad things.

If you're going to say something, say it. We're not exactly clairvoyant here.

You know what?

I'm tired of this argument of, "Well, shit, you enjoy GFF so you should pay for it too." Do you fucking pay to listen to the radio? No, you listen to some advertisements. That's your payment to them. Same here. We could put advertisements on the bottom of the page and that would be it! That's enough! No more problems ever for the rest of GFF's life. More can be done with ad money on GFF than can be done with donations. And I guarantee you if you people hadn't have given all your money to bobo and had given it to someone who gives a fuck about this community then GFF would be running at full functionality at this very moment.

But you fucks are like, "Well, shit, I can PAY FOR GFF. That would be so much better! It is so much better to have bobo run out of money every 6 months and lose everything and have to pay thousands of dollars to get GFF back!"

Seriously. What the hell is wrong with you? Have you looked at any other website on the entire freaking WWW lately? Because they all have advertisements.

It's such a fallacy to point out that we are bad users of GFF because we advocate a system where no one has to pay anything at all. OH SO AWFUL. So awful that all our friends would be able to keep their money!

And shut up, Miles. We get that you are like super admin and super doner and super everything. You don't have to be super righteous asshole also.

You technically do pay to listen to the radio. There are either advertisements or member drives (NPR).

Not hatin', just sayin'...

He said that. Way to read.

I agree with Mikey here, if it counts for anything. How long would it fucking take to implement a little text ad? 20 minutes? Get real people.

I did say that advertisements were the way that we "pay" for the radio.

NPR uses...not advertising, but "sponsors" which are basically corporations who donate money to get a blurb about them.

NPR stations do make money off member drives, but they also don't shut off the radio station and then call you on your phone to tell you that they forgot to pay the bills and the only way you'll be able to listen to NPR again is if SOMEONE ponies up.

I'm not saying that donations should be the way to fund GFF instead of advertising, go back and actually read what I said this time.

I agree wholeheartedly, GFF needs some form of advertising revenue in order to keep going and I don't think anyone would disagree with that. What I was saying is that I think it's ridiculous how some people here seem to think that bobo is all of a sudden answerable to you just because some people (And I notice that doesn't include a lot of the major complainants) chucked him a bit of cash to keep the place going in the short term.

As I see it, it comes down to this. If you personally feel that Gamingforce is a cause worthy of some of your money, then give some of your money. If you don't want to spend money on it then don't but for God's sake don't think you have any right to complain how the place is run either way.

As has been said countless times in the past, GFF is not a democracy. There's a very strong sense of community here, granted and popular opinion more often than not sways the major decisions but at the end of the day, most of us come here to post and nothing more. Some people are made mods or admins to help the general maintenance of the site and keep things running smoothly but the site is bobo's. He and he alone has the right to decide how things work round here. If like me and Sass you appreciate his efforts over the years and are willing to give a bit back then you do so. If you don't like how things are run you either give nothing and shut up or you get the fuck out.

It really is as simple as that.

No one is arguing about the AdSense, Mikey. I am pretty sure we ALL agree that it should be done.

But ultimately, its not our decision. Not you, I, or anyone else can FORCE Bobo's hand on this one. We've all said our piece about it, and he has heard us. If he runs out of money again, well. Thats his problem. You can chose to give more or NOT give more. Its not hard.

Seriously. WHAT THE FUCK crawled up your stank ass and decided to become a whining bitch about this.

YOU CAN EITHER PAY OR YOU REFUSE TO. BOTH ARE VALID FUCKING OPTIONS.

IF YOU DO NOT LIKE HOW HE DOES BUSINESS, DONT DO BUSINESS WITH HIM.

Wow. You'd think AMERICANS would have this concept down by now. SHIT.

Yea, isn't that strange? For years, Bobo has been nice enough to actually NOT PUT ADS UP because he could afford NOT to. The MINUTE he needs a little cash, you fucking crucify him.

You can't really be that ungrateful, can you Mikey?

Maybe he'll put them up. Maybe he won't. WHO CARES? You're not going to be dishing out any cash anytime soon for the cause - how the fuck does it affect you? Your board goes down? Nothing lost on YOUR end, right?

Maybe you'll run off and find a board where you like the management better and has LOTS of ads. At least then, you wouldn't bitch so much!

Its our choice to pay. I am completely happy giving money to people for service, if they need it.

Just like its your choice to NOT pay.

Fact of the matter is: GFF has been free for years. YEARS. And you've come away with so much from it. Bobo asks us all for a little understanding in a hard time, and you can chose to help or you can chose not to. (For the record, I did not donate this third time.)

If it continues at length for the amount of time I've been registered in the past, THEN I will flip out, and simply LEAVE.

Is that mutiny I see? AHAHAHHAA DRAMA~

Can I just express my emphatic agreement with Sass and Shin without tediously reiterating all the points they've made? I just want to make it clear that there are people out there who feel this way. If there were some kind of poll, I wouldn't even bother posting, but there isn't.

I see such strong feelings, coming from both sides. The point of disagreement seems to be directed at Bobo himself, and not the clarifications I'd wish to have.

Now, I'm sure both camps can agree on two things: First, we've used Gamingforce in the past, and continue to use it because we get something out of it. It's a community thing, and something that is not exactly easily replaced.

The second thing I can safely say we agree on, is that we all have an interest in seeing Gamingforce continue to survive. To that end, we're going to need a stable source of cash, at least sufficient enough to pay for the monthly $300 hosting fee.

In the past, Bobo has provided Gamingforce with funds, and had been a reliable source of it. However, I think we could also agree that his circumstances and priorities have changed. As such, he has been forced to resort to asking for donations.

I am not attacking bobo on this aspect. Choosing however to spend his own money is his own business. We reach a point of disagreement, however, when it comes to donations. This is my personal belief, that when you solicit other people's money for a particular reason, you're going to have to let them know exactly how you're spending it.

I tend to take a dispassionate view towards this, since it brings parallels to the world of business. In fact, it was bobo himself who expressed plans to incorporate the Gamingforce Network, in effect turning it into a real venture. Thus, I think the applicability of business concepts such as corporate governance is not unwarranted, since the metaphor was first broached by the head honcho himself.

I said earlier that we each have an interest in seeing the survival of Gamingforce. In order to ensure this, we have to secure a stable source of funds. Donations are a possible source, although I debate the sustainability of this model. Adsense has been brought up plenty of times (ad infinitum by BlueMikey it seems), and has been experimented on another forum.

The results indicate that even with a user base that is a fraction of Gamingforce's, the funds generated by Serious Business Forums from Google AdSense exposures are sufficient (and then some, by extrapolation) to fund Gamingforce's monthly server bills.

I'm happy to see that the majority is not opposed to having ads. I conjecture that Bobo might be unwilling to proceed with this, since he may feel marginalized or useless. It may be a matter of pride, you know.

Be that as it may, I still think AdSense is the way to go. The best solution, of course, is to have Bobo implement it himself. Any funds it generates will be split between the server bill, and himself (and holders of GFF shares, should he proceed to issue some and pay out dividends). He is entitled to the residual, since he spent a fair amount of cash setting up the community in the first place.

Bobo has been non-committal thus far ("I will definitely consider it"), hence my proposal for an admin to go ahead and put up the AdSense code. This is less preferred, since the money is flowing to a third party. Thus, I suggested that this money be held in trust for Bobo, and be produced when server bills need to be paid. The money is still rightfully his, only that someone else is holding it.

We all have a stake in this, and the fact that we're here after a relatively major crash testifies to our dedication. I hope we can at least agree on these points.

If you're gonna start drawing parallels with the business world, you should be aware that the process of incorporating a business takes a little more than three weeks. If bobo has a business plan and if bobo decides he wants to share it with you, I'm sure he will. I know for a fact though that it takes a fair bit of time to formulate a proper business plan, then weeks longer to finalise it, circulate it, complete the neccessary statutory obligations and so on.

I also think that with voluntary donations, he has no obligation whatsoever to tell you what he's doing with the money. As I said before, if you don't feel comfortable giving your money to someone, then don't give him any money, simple as that.

I don't give a fuck what bobo did with my donation. He could have spent the whole lot on drugs and hookers and good luck to him. The amount of his personal time and money he's invested in this place over the years, he deserves a few quid off all of us I reckon.

I have been off and on the forums for the last few years now.

I think we can all say we are grateful for this site, which obviously is not free. We won't know if the server will crash, admins will hurridly be scrambling to pull stuff from back-up, and we won't know if the hat will come around for donations again.

I personally find it a little disparaging that if one were to donate money into getting this site back-up you would at least get some kind response back from him. If not as a reply, at least a pm for god's sake.

The regular updates he's posting as to features coming back up and new features being implemeted not good enough for you?

Also, is English your first language because that post made fuck all sense.

Oooo...a little testy aren't we.

Quoted for truth. Bobo has defied the expectation of the people who expected him to just ignore the site, and there's no reason to believe he won't do so in the future. Did it occur to anyone to wonder if the reason he didn't post for a while when the boards came back up was because he was hard at work coding PHP? Oh, and you know, living his life, god forbid.

I hear they've been known to refuse to pay out, citing obscure, and possibly spurious breaches of the contractual terms. In other words, I heard that they've been screwing small sites, so that they can get advertising revenue without having to pay out for advertising space.

It seems unlikely, I grant you, but I thought I'd offer it as something for you to look into before you go ahead. Ask around, and stuff. I've probably just got my tinfoil hat on too tight, but here's where I heard it first.

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-375112.html

A lot of things I read these days tell me that Google are not our friends. Their famous motto "Don't be evil" does not seem to apply these days.

http://www.google-watch.org/