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-   -   Scott Brown won in Massachussetts and I hope he kills healthcare (http://www.gamingforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39730)

Bradylama Jan 20, 2010 02:03 PM

Scott Brown won in Massachussetts and I hope he kills healthcare
 
Brown: Mass. victory sends "very powerful message' - Yahoo! News
Quote:

BOSTON – Republican Scott Brown, fresh from a stunning Massachusetts Senate victory that shook the power balance on Capitol Hill, declared Wednesday that his election had sent a "very powerful message" that voters are weary of backroom deals and Washington business-as-usual.

Democrats scrambled to explain the loss, which imperils President Barack Obama's agenda for health care and other hard-fought domestic issues. Republicans greeted their victory with clear glee.

"The president ought to take this as a message to recalibrate how he wants to govern, and if he wants to govern from the middle we'll meet him there," said Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky.

Democrats still exercise majority control over both the House and Senate. But Tuesday's GOP upset to win the seat long held by the late Sen. Edward Kennedy — following Republican victories in Virginia and New Jersey last fall for gubernatorial seats that had been held by Democrats — signals challenges for Democratic prospects in midterm elections this year. Even when the economy is not bad, the party holding the White House historically loses seats in midterms.

"If there's anybody in this building that doesn't tell you they are more worried about elections today, you should absolutely slap them," Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri told reporters at the Capitol. "Of course everybody is more worried about elections. Are you kidding? It's what this place thrives on."

Brown, in his first meeting with reporters after the special election, portrayed his victory as less a referendum on Obama or the president's health care proposal and more of a sign that people are tired of Washington politics and dealmaking.

He said his victory sends "a very powerful message that business-as-usual is just not going to be the way we do it."

"I think it's important that we hit the ground running," Brown said. He said he would pay a courtesy call to the nation's capital on Thursday.

"Game's over. Let's get to work," he added. It was not clear how quickly he would be sworn in, but Democratic Sen. Jim Webb of Virginia said the Senate should not hold any further votes on health care until Brown is seated. That, said McConnell, probably means there will be no further Senate action until then.

At the White House, Obama adviser David Axelrod said the president agreed with Webb. Brown won the election and "no one is going to circumvent that," Axelrod told MSNBC.

Brown's victory gives Republicans 41 votes in the Senate, upending the Democrats' ability to stop filibusters and other delaying tactics. Counting the two Senate independents who usually vote with Democrats on procedural issues, the party will be able to muster only 59 votes, at most, one short of the number needed.

Brown said that, while he planned to caucus with Republicans, "I'm not beholden to anybody."

Democrats were licking their wounds and demonstrating that they got the message from voters and were willing to reach out.

White House tourists even got a surprise Wednesday when first lady Michelle Obama showed up as their greeter to mark the end of Obama's first year as president. She brought the family dog, Bo, to the Blue Room. She chatted with guests and hugged many of them as they filed in.

Obama himself grimly faced a need to regroup in a White House shaken by the realization of what a difference a year made.

In addition to searching for ways to salvage the health care overhaul, the Democratic Party also faced a need to determine how to assuage an angry electorate, and particularly attract independent voters who have fled to the GOP after a year of Wall Street bailouts, economic stimulus spending and enormous budget deficits.

There was a sense that if Republicans could win in one of the country's most traditionally liberal states, Massachusetts, they could probably win anywhere.

Brown rode a wave of voter anger to defeat Democrat Martha Coakley, the attorney general who had been considered a surefire winner until just days ago. Her loss signaled big political problems for Obama and the Democratic Party this fall when House, Senate and gubernatorial candidates are on the ballot nationwide.

As if in a nod to voter disgust with Washington, Obama signed a directive Wednesday aimed at stopping government contracts from going to tax-delinquent companies. "We need to insist on the same sense of responsibility in Washington that so many of you strive to uphold in your own lives, in your own families and in your own businesses," Obama said.

Sen. John McCain of Arizona, Obama's Republican presidential rival in 2008, likened Brown's win to the Revolutionary War's "shot heard 'round the world" in Concord, Mass., in April 1775. McCain said the message was clear: "No more business as usual in Washington. Stop this unsavory sausage-making process."

White House officials acknowledged that one of the lessons from Massachusetts was the intensity of voter anger, but they said it wasn't so much with Obama as with Washington's failures in general and with the moribund economy.

"There are messages here. We hear those messages," senior Obama adviser David Axelrod told MSNBC. "There is a general sense of discontent about the economy. And there is a general sense of discontent about this town. That's why we were elected."

Congressional Democrats were urging their House and Senate candidates to embrace in their campaigns against Republicans the populist appeal the president had made on Sunday as he rushed to Boston to try to save Coakley and the Senate seat held by Democrats for more than a half-century.

His attempt didn't work, but House and Senate Democrats insisted that the pitch — Democrats work for the people, Republicans work for Wall Street — was simply made too late.

Brown, 50, will finish Kennedy's unexpired term, facing re-election in 2012. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid pledged to seat Brown immediately, a hasty retreat from pre-election Democratic threats to delay his swearing-in until after the health bill passed.
The message sent is that Democrats couldn't politic their way out of a wet paper bag.

if you voted for Brown over SPORTS COMMENT just kill yourself

Lord Styphon Jan 20, 2010 02:20 PM

Here it comes. Here it comes! You will be destroyed. You're goin' down! The electoral defeat will be of extraordinary magnitude.
http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8...0mooninite.jpg
I hope Martha Coakley can see this because I'm doing it as hard as I can.

Magi Jan 20, 2010 02:54 PM

This is just depressing, to be honest. I don't know what else to say.

Other then that, fuck McCain, he sold his soul and have never gotten it back.

Bradylama Jan 20, 2010 03:29 PM

there will be a movement to end the two-party system, and then the party that represents that movement will replace the Democrats

Dullenplain Jan 20, 2010 03:34 PM

So by the end of the decade we'll have perhaps 4 different parties: Republican, Democrat, Tea Party (depends on how willing they are to keep the R brand going), and Progressive.

Lord Styphon Jan 20, 2010 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dullenplain (Post 741976)
So by the end of the decade we'll have perhaps 4 different parties: Republican, Democrat, Tea Party (depends on how willing they are to keep the R brand going), and Progressive.

Suck it, Libertarian, Green, Reform and Constitution Parties

The unmovable stubborn Jan 20, 2010 03:37 PM

We already have like three dozen parties

The problem isn't that they don't exist

the problem is that they are total jokes

Sarag Jan 20, 2010 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradylama (Post 741975)
there will be a movement to end the two-party system, and then the party that represents that movement will replace the Democrats

more like a bowel movement

also: oh my god tea party as a serious political entity, are you fucking serious

wvlfpvp Jan 20, 2010 03:43 PM

Hey maybe the Socialist party will finally have a leg to stand on in this country by the end of the decade.





...



...



...


HA

Lord Styphon Jan 20, 2010 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvlfpvp (Post 741980)
Hey maybe the Socialist party will finally have a leg to stand on in this country by the end of the decade.

Zombie Eugene V. Debs to run for President. Pledges to redistribute wealth, brains.

Bradylama Jan 20, 2010 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pangalin (Post 741978)
We already have like three dozen parties

The problem isn't that they don't exist

the problem is that they are total jokes

there are real barriers to entry for other parties to enter the political realm

numbers are important, but you also need exposure, media attention, ballot access, campaign finances, etc.,

Sarag Jan 20, 2010 03:49 PM

How many of those barriers came down as a direct result of some bitch not becoming senator

Bradylama Jan 20, 2010 03:50 PM

I'm gonna join the Suck It party, who's with me?

Additional Spam:
*streets full of young men pointing at their dilz*

Dullenplain Jan 20, 2010 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon (Post 741977)
Suck it, Libertarian, Green, Reform and Constitution Parties

What would the platform of this Suck It Party consist of?

Sarag Jan 20, 2010 03:53 PM

I heard the Suck It party got the coveted PUA endorsement

Lord Styphon Jan 20, 2010 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dullenplain (Post 741987)
What would the platform of this Suck It Party consist of?

Platform of the Suck It Party:

1. Win elections.
2. Tell losers to suck it.
3. Become corporate whores.
4. Profit!

Sarag Jan 20, 2010 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon (Post 741990)
Platform of the Suck It Party:

1. Win elections.
2. Tell losers to suck it.
3. Become corporate whores.
4. Profit!

5. jo

knkwzrd Jan 20, 2010 03:59 PM

Up here in Canada, we have about five political parties that aren't generally considered insane fringe elements. Thing is, they're all equally full of horseshit. So, two groups of assholes who can't agree and accomplish nothing vs. five groups of assholes who can't agree and accomplish nothing. Not really that much of an improvement.

value tart Jan 20, 2010 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knkwzrd (Post 741992)
Up here in Canada

There's your problem right there.

Soluzar Jan 20, 2010 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pangalin (Post 741978)
We already have like three dozen parties

The problem isn't that they don't exist

the problem is that they are total jokes

Ahh, so it's the same as here in the UK. You can have other parties, they just can't ever challenge the big two. I mean, there's no rule, or anything. It just never happens.

Fluffykitten McGrundlepuss Jan 20, 2010 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soluzar (Post 742005)
Ahh, so it's the same as here in the UK. You can have other parties, they just can't ever challenge the big two. I mean, there's no rule, or anything. It just never happens.

There's a slght difference though in the way our local MP's theoretically work for thier local constiuency and as such, can be effective even without being a member of the two primary parties. For example, our MP is Norman Baker, a Lib Dem and in the last couple of years he's won a ton of funding for flood defences in Lewesm as well as being the primary instigator for the MP's expenses scandal and one of the main driving forces behind the Iraq war enquiry. Sure he's unlikely to ever form part of a government (Unless we get a hung parliament come election time which is not entirely unlikely) but he's a damn good MP and will continue winning elections here until he retires I imagine, especially given the competition these days. Also Scotland has more SIP or whatever they're called MP's than Tories so it's pretty open up there. The Tories and Labour would like you to think we have a two party system but we really don't, at least not to the extent the US has.

YO PITTSBURGH MIKE HERE Jan 20, 2010 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin (Post 742007)
(Unless we get a hung parliament come election time which is not entirely unlikely)

No matter the situation, we'll now always be graced with a hung Senate.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...browncopy2.jpg

Bradylama Jan 21, 2010 01:07 PM

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h3...-on-Sc-007.jpg

Soluzar Jan 21, 2010 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradylama (Post 741961)
The message sent is that Democrats couldn't politic their way out of a wet paper bag.

Is it really, or is it just that (as I've read elsewhere) the Dems put up an unappealing candidate? Senatorial elections are going to be about local issues to some extent, right? Not so much about parties as a whole but about your own local candidate? You don't think plenty of people have Dem agenda in their hearts and minds but couldn't bring themselves to vote for the current candidate? Considering the place has been a Dem stronghold since forever, seems likely to me.

The real message here is that you can't expect to put up half-assed campaign, even in a stronghold. The people expect to be treated with just as much commitment as you'd offer in a hotly contested territory.

Now admittedly not being American all of that is just a general guess based on my experience of the way politics works, but what do you say? My last comment in the thread was just a flippant remark that Shin rightly corrected me on, but this is a genuine substantive post... I hope.

Lord Styphon Jan 21, 2010 02:17 PM

Quote:

You don't think plenty of people have Dem agenda in their hearts and minds but couldn't bring themselves to vote for the current candidate?
Given that:

1. Brown winning the election would break the Democratic supermajority in the Senate and kill the health care bill that the Democrats had been investing so much time and political capital in last year
2. Brown explicitly said during the campaign he was going to do just that

if the Democratic agenda was really that popular, just how unappealing a candidate was Martha Coakley if all that was at stake and still lose?

In the 2006 elections, Ted Kennedy was re-elected with close to 70% of the votes. In that same year, Coakley was elected attorney general with close to 75%; numbers like this show just how much of a Democratic stronghold Massachusetts is. If the shifts in this election were solely the fault of the candidates, Coakley must have been one of the worst candidates in the history of democracy, and the idea of Brown running for president in 2012 isn't nearly as ridiculous as it sounds.

Sarag Jan 21, 2010 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon (Post 742085)
Given that:

1. Brown winning the election would break the Democratic supermajority in the Senate and kill the health care bill that the Democrats had been investing so much time and political capital in last year
2. Brown explicitly said during the campaign he was going to do just that

if the Democratic agenda was really that popular, just how unappealing a candidate was Martha Coakley if all that was at stake and still lose?

martha coakley went on public record that she would outlaw jo if elected.

Bradylama Jan 21, 2010 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soluzar (Post 742082)
Is it really, or is it just that (as I've read elsewhere) the Dems put up an unappealing candidate?

Not that this isn't correct, but how do you think you're contradicting my statement?

Soluzar Jan 21, 2010 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradylama (Post 742093)
Not that this isn't correct, but how do you think you're contradicting my statement?

Cause you say the Democrats as a party "can't politic their way out of a wet paper bag" whereas it is quite possible that the party in general is still fairly capable other than this candidate and her team. Does it necessarily imply anything about the party as a whole if they lost one seat? I don't believe so. It doesn't exclude the possibility that the party as a whole have problems, of course.

If there's more I don't know, I freely confess my ignorance. I'm not putting myself forward as someone who knows all about the American political situation, I'm just taking an isolated look at one situation with the limited understanding available to me. I have to further admit that when I read Styphon's post I find he makes a compelling case. I do find it a little odd that people would be so strongly against the increased spending/taxation required for the healthcare bill in a state sometimes referred to as Taxachusetts though.

Additional Spam:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon (Post 742085)
If the Democratic agenda was really that popular, just how unappealing a candidate was Martha Coakley if all that was at stake and still lose?

I don't think it is either possible nor wise for me to attempt an answer to that question, but I acknowledge the point you make by asking it. However, I have some questions of my own. Genuine questions, based on a desire to know rather than to make a point.

Please indulge me, I do not claim to be a political mastermind.

1)How much has the Democratic agenda really changed since Mass. last elected Senator Kennedy? It would appear to have been popular at that time and for many years prior.

2) Is it possible that personal factors rather than the Democratic agenda were the reason behind Kennedy's repeated re-election, and that events since his death have simply exposed the fact?

3) The Democratic agenda was popular enough for President Obama to have been elected about 15 months ago, have things changed greatly since then or would you say that Obama was elected for reasons other than the party agenda and his stance on the issues?

I'm genuinely curious here. If it isn't due to the weakness of the candidate, then the Democratic party must surely be doing something wrong which they were doing right at one point.

Bradylama Jan 21, 2010 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soluzar (Post 742097)
Cause you say the Democrats as a party "can't politic their way out of a wet paper bag" whereas it is quite possible that the party in general is still fairly capable other than this candidate and her team. Does it necessarily imply anything about the party as a whole if they lost one seat? I don't believe so. It doesn't exclude the possibility that the party as a whole have problems, of course.

I don't see how you could have observed the last ten years and not come to the conclusion that the Democrats don't know how to play politics.

Additional Spam:
Massachussets has its own state-run healthcare system that Brown claims to support, so Massachussets voters have very little stake in the federal bill.

Musharraf Jan 21, 2010 05:45 PM

Oh fuck seems that Barack is screwed now

Soluzar Jan 21, 2010 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradylama (Post 742110)
I don't see how you could have observed the last ten years and not come to the conclusion that the Democrats don't know how to play politics.

I admit they made a pretty terrible mess out of the previous presidential election, but honestly I thought they were currently in the midst of a renaissance. Bush/Gore on the other hand was a bit less clear-cut. Perhaps I don't observe closely enough, but I find it hard to see either party as massively superior in term of strategy. I stand fully ready to be told that statement makes me ignorant, though. Observing things from such a great distance it isn't easy to see clearly.

Sarag Jan 21, 2010 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradylama (Post 742110)
I don't see how you could have observed the last ten years and not come to the conclusion that the Democrats don't know how to play politics.

Additional Spam:
Massachussets has its own state-run healthcare system that Brown claims to support, so Massachussets voters have very little stake in the federal bill.

I find it appropriate that a man who posted nude pix publicly in a country that would flip the fuck out if any of its woman politicians did the same would be all about FUCK YOU GOT MINE

Lord Styphon Jan 21, 2010 09:57 PM

tl;dr ahead
Quote:

If it isn't due to the weakness of the candidate, then the Democratic party must surely be doing something wrong which they were doing right at one point.
It would not be too much of a stretch to say that what Democrats had been doing right was simply not being Republicans. In 2006 and 2008, Democratic wins came at the expense of a Republican Party that had exhausted and discredited itself in the eyes of much of the electorate. On top of fixing everything that Bush had done wrong, Obama (like Bush before him) had promised to change the tone in Washington, and be a new kind of politician.

They set lofty goals for themselves, and then failed to deliver on them.

The health bill that had been working its way through Congress, in many ways, is an example of all the ways that Obama's promise had failed to materialize. Republicans had soured their brand by, among other things, by spending as much as they did; the health care bill was going to cost close to a trillion dollars (on top of the trillion dollars that had already been spent on bailouts). It was stuff like this that prompted the much-derided "tea party" movement's rise to power.

Obama had pledged to be post-partisan and seek bipartisan solutions. Whether any Republicans could be brought on board is questionable, but the Democrats didn't try to add anything that they could be comfortable voting for. So they just stopped trying to bring Republicans on board. And after Senator Specter switched parties and the Minnesota recount ended and made Al Franken the 60th senator in the Democratic caucus, they no longer needed to worry about Republican votes. Those 60 and their control of the House meant that they had complete control of Congress. For all the good it did them. This made the bill an entirely Democratic undertaking; Republicans had no reason not to tear into it.

This led to another problem. The Democrats could pass whatever they wanted if they stuck together, but as a result of throwing the bums out in 2006 and 2008, the Democrats had a number of seats up for re-election in areas that were nominally Republican territory. To be re-elected, they couldn't be seen supporting a bill that contained items that their voters hated, and to get their votes the Democratic leadership had to jettison the things that people in Massachusetts would be more amenable to.

On top of that, in the Senate, to keep the moderate Democrats in line without any Republican votes to make up for them, the leadership had to effectively buy their votes. The famous example being to get number 60 for the Christmas Eve vote, Senator Ben Nelson of Nebraska traded his vote for the federal government picking up the tab for the Medicare and/or Medicaid increases the bill was going to cost Nebraska. This kind of thing was the politics as usual that the Democrats had run successfully against in '06 and '08, but even more so.

I'm leaving out a bunch of stuff here (like buying off the pharmaceutical and insurance companies to gain their support), but in the end, the result was, as some guy describing it wrote, like watching sausage be made in Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. As the process dragged on, the bill became increasingly less popular, to the point where the majority of the public now opposed it.

And most damningly of all, the Democrats didn't seem to care. It's understandable, since a national health care program has been their dream since Truman was president, and they were closer than ever. But the electorate doesn't like to be ignored.

And then came the special election in Massachusetts.

If I've been talking a lot about the health care bill before getting here, this has been the leading political issue of the past six months, and had ties to Massachusetts, too. Before the 2004 presidential election, when the Democrats were giddy at the prospect of unseating George W. Bush, someone pointed out to the Massachusetts Democratic Party that the governor was a Republican, Mitt Romney, who would appoint a Republican to would-be President John Kerry's seat. So, in a blatant partisan power-grab, the Massachusetts legislature stripped the governor of the power to appoint senators to vacant seats over Romney's veto.

This would have been all well and good had Ted Kennedy not died and reduced the Democratic caucus back to 59. To get that 60th vote, the legislature changed the law again and allowed the governor (now Democrat Deval Patrick) to appoint an interim senator before the special election that the 2004 law mandated. This just plays into the "even worse politics than usual line".

In the special election itself, having won the Democratic primary and been up by 30 points, Martha Coakley (like everyone else) took the seat for granted. Even as popular support for the bill waned, she still had a commanding lead. That seemed to change around Christmas Eve, when the Senate passed its version and Coakley was off vacationing in the Caribbean. The lead shrunk to around 10 points, and Republicans saw an opportunity and seized it. Brown amplified his pledged to be the "41st vote" against the bill, which suddenly was vulnerable from a direction nobody anticipated. This, in additon to those famous missteps of Coakley's, weakened her to the point where she could do the impossible and lose the seat, which forced Obama to personally step in to try to save her. Even then, he had to know how unpopular the health care bill had become, since at the rally he spoke at, he talked more about Scott Brown's pickup truck than that. This reinforced Brown's message of running against "the machine" and we all see where that went.

This doesn't absolve Coakley, since even with the bill being as unpopular as it had become, Massachusetts should have still elected her, given Democratic strength there. But she did everything she could to screw it up. In and of itself, saying Curt Schilling was a Yankees fan was merely stupid; saying that in Massachusetts suggested a great disconnect between her and the people she wanted to represent, especially when she tried a few seconds earlier to invoke the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry to her advantage when talking about Rudy Giuliani campaigning for Brown. (For the non-Americans who don't know, the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry is Very Serious Business.) Then she went negative in the stupidest ways possible, doing things like using a picture of the World Trade Center to represent the "Wall Street greed" Brown stood in favor, misrepresenting Brown's position on a bill to the point of slander, and, to top it all off, misspelled Massachusetts in one of them.

To wrap this long dissertation up, yes, Martha Coakley was a horrible candidate. But even still, running as a Democrat in a state like Massachusetts, for a seat that, for one brief interruption in the early 60s, was held by a Kennedy, running against the Republican Party, whose brand is still damaged as a result of the Bush presidency, in a state that hasn't really been amenable to them in a long time, she still should have won. But she didn't.

P.S.
Quote:

Is it possible that personal factors rather than the Democratic agenda were the reason behind Kennedy's repeated re-election, and that events since his death have simply exposed the fact?
I shouldn't ignore this, because it is relevant. A great deal of Kennedy success was due to charisma. It didn't matter if the Kennedy in question was John, Bobby or Ted; they were all very charismatic. In Ted's case, this let him be both a successful campaigner (the only races he lost were in the 1980 Democratic presidential primaries) and legislator. Kennedy also didn't make the mistake Coakley did and take his seat for granted, even if he only had to seriously contest it was in 1994, when Mitt Romney came close to adding him to the scalps the Republicans collected that year.

Yes, he was loved by the Massachusetts electorate, but if they seriously disagreed with his, he wouldn't have held the seat for close to half a century, regardless of personal charisma or the Kennedy name.

Bigblah Jan 21, 2010 10:59 PM

From now on Martha Coakley shall be known as Martha Croakley

Dullenplain Jan 21, 2010 11:10 PM

The other popular nickname being given during the days leading up to and after the election was Martha Choakley.

Bradylama Jan 21, 2010 11:35 PM

Well, looking on the bright side, Brown killing the healthcare bill means millions of wasted lobbying capital and billions of lost potential revenues for the insurance industry.

Sarag Jan 22, 2010 12:31 AM

If my untreated schizophrenia allows me to live long enough to see the bright purple monkey dishwasher

Zephyrin Jan 22, 2010 12:37 AM

All in all, I think the Democrats are going to be crucified this election. They're not doing much for their public image. This is probably the straw that breaks the camel's back.

I volunteer for the Harry Reid's son's governor's campaign (trip apostrophes. Jackpot), and when I make calls (to Dems only, btw), I can feel the outlash against Harry, even though he has not much to do with a governor's race.

Zergrinch Jan 22, 2010 12:52 AM

As an outsider looking in, I must say I'm quite amazed at the seeming turn of fortune for the Democrats. It was only one year ago that they were swept into power, and everyone was all optimistic and bright-eyed. Yes we can!

Dopefish Jan 22, 2010 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zephyrin (Post 742153)
All in all, I think the Democrats are going to be crucified this election. They're not doing much for their public image. This is probably the straw that breaks the camel's back.

It seems as if Obama and Co. will be hedging their bets on improving jobs this year, and throwing the health care reform into the recycle bin, the former of which, if accomplished, could at least save some Senators their jobs.

Zephyrin Jan 22, 2010 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zergrinch (Post 742156)
As an outsider looking in, I must say I'm quite amazed at the seeming turn of fortune for the Democrats. It was only one year ago that they were swept into power, and everyone was all optimistic and bright-eyed. Yes we can!

Well, as far as I've kept up, most of the promises have been attented to, but some only partially, and some only half-heartedly. This being due to all the effort put into the health-care reform.

But they tried. As far as the war, I believe Obama will do his best to pull most of the troops out after this latest surge ends. If he doesn't I will be very pissed off, but thankfully for the Dems, that promise won't be called up till after the elections.

wvlfpvp Jan 22, 2010 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Styphon (Post 742133)
This led to another problem. The Democrats could pass whatever they wanted if they stuck together[.]

I'm so glad you brought this up. I mean, honestly. The reason so much shit got done when Bush + Republican majority was around was because they didn't give a fuck for bipartisanship. They just wrote bills that would make themselves happy, and fuck non-Republicans. If the Dems had just had some balls, maybe the health care bill would have passed and we would have saved all that money buying off Big Pharm and Big Insurance. Bloated bills are fun.

Bradylama Jan 22, 2010 10:12 AM

haha, actually Dems take as much money from special interests as Republicans, so when the time comes to write up some legislation the principled leftists are undermined by corporate shills

Lord Styphon Jan 22, 2010 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wvlfpvp (Post 742175)
I'm so glad you brought this up. I mean, honestly. The reason so much shit got done when Bush + Republican majority was around was because they didn't give a fuck for bipartisanship. They just wrote bills that would make themselves happy, and fuck non-Republicans.

Except how, like Jon Stewart so kindly reminded us, the Republican Senate majority was never as large as the one Democrats have now. They got things done because not just because of party discipline, but because what they passed wasn't odious enough to compel Democrats to try to stop it. They could also count on getting at least a few Democrats to vote with them, depending on what the issue was.

You'll remember that the Social Security reform Bush began pushing in earnest after his re-election went precisely nowhere.

Night Phoenix Jan 23, 2010 01:37 AM

Also consider the fact that when you get majorities that big, you're bound to have people who can truly be considered moderates, who may consider themselves Democrats, but still identify with conservative values of their base. Not everyone is in the same vein as a Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid.

wvlfpvp Jan 23, 2010 05:03 PM

YAY SUPREME COURT


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