OK OK. My logic revealed its flaws with that final piercing statement. You win. Here's a platinum grill for you.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...TINUMGRILL.jpg

WEAR IT PROUDLY.

I don't like grills very much, actually.

T.I. is the simplest of lyricists. T.I. knows nothing of the concepts in hip hop and if he does, He only knows the basics of rapping. I don't know if it's just me but any song i've heard of his he can barely keep his flow going and he can barely keep his overall interest level in anyone's attention. His hook's are terrible and his whole style is just made to sell.

Aesop, Shits all over T.I. he has it all the amazing complexity to the flow and everything I think your basing your opinions on him becuase of the beats. Fuck the beats, He's amazing with lyrics and how whole style is original.

Saying T.I. is a better lyricist clearly shows you lack the knowledge to understand the priciples and concepts of hip hop. ALTHOUGH it's ok to like T.I. better based on whatever you feel you like about him, But saying he's a better lyricist is just plain stupid.

#1 on the Billboard Hot 100. Sup America?

Have you ever even LISTENED to a T.I. album?

I mean, I can only laugh when I read your post. I can't even take you seriously anymore. Aesop Rock is a fucking horrible emcee. Yeah, he's got some nice rhyme schemes and shit, but his delivery, flow, mic presence, production, and overall charisma and swagger are fucking pathetic.

Don't you dare try and pull this 'you don't understand the concepts of hip-hop' bullshit if you have the audacity to sit here and tell me Aesop Rock is better than T.I. in any aspect of the art.

No he is, I admit his delivery isn't the best but he's still better then T.I. Way better then T.I. And yes i've listened to my fair share of T.I. tracks and he's terrible.

I guess it's all based on what you value in an emcee.

Me, I like someone who has the total package - they got the lyrics, the delivery, the flow, the mic presence, and the swagger. T.I., to me, has all of these qualities. He isn't the greatest technical lyricist (i.e. crazy multisyllablic rhyme schemes), but he isn't simple either.

Aesop Rock, on the other hand, has crazy schemes and some tight track concepts, but I just can't get into his music. It's not always about what you say, but how you say it. Aesop Rock is one of those cats to me that has the lyrics, but not the other qualities necessary to make him listenable to a wide audience.

You know, I can only laught at your post as well. However, like you said, we can agree to disagree. I have already shut the fuck up; the question is: CAN YOU? :eyebrow:

Did it look like I was talking to you, bitch nigga? No. Resume shutting the fuck up.

so reading through this fucking thread got me so worked up that I had to make an account for the first time since the forum went down.

In short though I pretty much agree with Night Phoenix. Actually, make that I completely agree with Night Phoenix. I have no patience for a lot of the self-consciously "underground" rappers who go out of their way to stick to their underground aesthetic, which is often an especially ugly aesthetic. As such I have no intention of listening to their music. I could do a lot of ranting, trust me, a LOT of ranting on the subject but it's well-worn ground by now.

What I will say is that, especially in the last half or so of this topic, there's been absolutely no acceptance of any middle ground. I mean, I swear that posters like Encephalon and Capo are giving the impression that they think (say) AZ - AWOL is a shitty album, presumably on the grounds that it's actually listenable. What this thread should be, rather than just a chance for the anti-commercial kids and the anti-undie kids to flame one another, is a chance to introduce both people who only listen to the deep underground and people who only listen to the Billboard 100 to that rare middle-ground shit that has the beats, the lyrical content, the lyrical complexity, the wit, the flow, the swagger, in short the whole fucking thing. and a chance for people who already listen to a broad range of hip-hop to hear about more good artists they oughta be listening to. because if real hip-hop, you know, that Paid In Full, Illmatic, Daily Operation sorta shit still survives that's where it is.

with that in mind I'd like to second whoever said J-Live; dude's incredible. Smif 'n' Wessun? Blackalicious? Ghostface? GZA? Beanie Sigel? the Perceptionists? these all released strong traditional hip-hop albums in the past year or so... hell, if you're willing to step outside your comfort zone a little, be prepared to ignore subject matter and just appreciate what's being done with voice and rhythm and words (not to mention beats) people might even find something to appreciate in TI, Young Jeezy, Lil Wayne, and so forth.

oh yeah, Night Phoenix, what you've said in this thread quite frankly makes me want to hear your shit. I looked at the link in your journal and listened to the songs there but I kinda feel that those probably aren't representative of your solo stuff. But hell, I don't know.

sorry for the wall of text here.

Aes can rhyme like there's no tomorrow. His lyrics are complex and well thought with meaning. I can go days prasing his lyrical talent but I know there isn't a fucking chance he's going to apeal to a wide audience. I can understand why most people would listen to him and say "WTF is this?". The man is like the fucking Riddler. Most people don't need that shit and listen to music for enjoyment, not to listen to something you need to break the fucking Da Vinci Code to understand. I love this shit but I know he's not going anywhere aside from this also...

About T.I....
I couldn't agree more. While I might not listen to T.I. for the fact that I just don't listen to that style of music...as a matter of fact I can't stand it but, I UNDERSTAND why it's such a marketable style. The man might not be saying much by other peoples standards (underground heads) but he knows what his people likes. He knows what he likes and the man delivers in a way that the people like.

People shit on your music and you will shit back on to theirs.

**********************
On another note...I think Aes should get back with L-Dub. Blockhead is cool but his shit gets a bit boring after a while. Encephalon, I'm guessing you have heard the "One Hundred" album by the Controls. Fuck I loved that album. Also till this day Apple Seed is STILL my fav album of his.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weapon On another note...I think Aes should get back with L-Dub. Blockhead is cool but his shit gets a bit boring after a while. Encephalon, I'm guessing you have heard the "One Hundred" album by the Controls. Fuck I loved that album. Also till this day Apple Seed is STILL my fav album of his.

<3

Appleseed is actually my 2nd favorite of Aesop's albums following closely on the heels of Float. That whole production was definitely the most well-hashed even though it was relatively low on "production". I still consider Float to be a superior album. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Phoenix Resume shutting the fuck up.

You've bought dizzy
But I can't keep myself busy enough
So you can run, run, run
And I'ma let you think you won

For me is the other way around. Float is a close second to my fav album.
Still though...have you heard him on the "Controls" album?
I only ask cause till this day I have meet some people that love Aes but never heard of his tracks with Controls.

If not check this out...

http://www.dub-l.com/the%20controls.htm

Hey....rap is no longer my fav genre, but I must speak about a certain CD I came across recently....I know I'm late but MF DOOM's King Geedorah CD is teh shizz.

http://xs201.xs.to/xs201/06236/2981882789.jpg

Fastlane, Monster Zero, No snakes alive and The Fine Print are some dam fine rap tunes.

Anyone else hip to this CD? If not, give it a listen, you won't be sorry.

http://xs201.xs.to/xs201/06236/10.jpg

I can't say much about T.I, the only songs of his I've heard are Rubberband Man, Bring em Out, What You Know? and maybe a few others. He's all right, I don't hate him but he's not my favorite.

Right now, I'm liking Tech N9NE a lot. The Roots and Binary Star are another two I want to get into; I haven't heard much of them but what I have heard was awesome. I also can't wait for Jurassic 5's new album, which I believe is being released July 25th.

There's also a local group called the Blue Scholars I like, which I doubt any of you have ever heard of unless you live in Washington.

Blue Scholars isn't that hard to find. I've seen their record around on a couple college radio playlists, and I live in central Canada. I haven't heard anything of theirs, but they've gone past a local act I think.

Yeah, I knew they went past local, but I believe that was very recently, and I'd never met anyone outside of WA who's heard of them.

I'm a HUGE Binary Star fan, BUT the only problem with Binary Star is they split up awhile ago. There first two CD's are available free for download. Jurassic 5 is pretty sick too.

Double Post:
I've heard some tracks off this CD and it's pretty sick from what i've heard. MF Doom is definatly an underground favourite in my opinion.

In other news - I just listened to the new Field Mob album, Lightpoles & Pine Trees, and that album is hot as hell. Of course, with these guys being part of Ludacris' label, Disturbing the Peace, it's got commercial-type tracks on it, but these guys are lyrical as hell. If you like punchilnes, they got 'em. If you like concepts, they got 'em. Standout tracks to me are "My Wheels", "Smile", "Blacker The Berry", and "At the Park."

I'm not much of a hip hop/rap fan, but a cursory perusal pretty much confirms previous conclusions that have been made here, primarily that: a) "alt" or "indie" hip hop is generally more concerned with lyrical complexity and envelope-pushing production and b) Mainstream hip hop is generally concerned with image, appealing to the masses, and monetary aquisition.

There's a deep earthen casm - or all-emcompassing rift of n-dimensional space-time if you will - that seperates me from the realm of the Surface Dwellers. We're both cool with the notion, though. I could go on about how mainstream music typically is devoid of creativity and innovation (views that I personally hold) but I'm realizing more and more that maybe that's not the primary objective in the first place. I've learned that one does not always listen to music to be challenged - to be taken to the ever-stretching boundaries of composed and improvised music. Sometimes it is appropriate just to shut your brain off and shake yo' a$$ - something that I'm not sure I'm capable of doing.

With all that said I tend to believe that a lot of hip hop - the "underground" stuff I mean - suffers from a lot of the "Inside the Box" thinking that makes mainstream music so unappealing to me. With a few exceptions they pretty much all start running together and becoming indistinguishable after a short while. I'll also have to agree somewhat with the guy who said he preferred VGM hip hop over "actual" hip hop. I'll admit that musically, some of the best hip hop I've come across have been that which has appeared on soundtracks (as well as non hip hop artists who happen to take the style and do pretty interesting things with it). All in all - listen to what moves you and all will be right with the world.

One Be Lo (of binary star) is still doing his thing.

http://www.onebelo.com/

Anyone have the new Cannibal Ox album? Is not for sale here in Australia ;_;
I've only heard 1 track but thats shit was sick!

Sure thing. I posted The Cold Vein in the Music Exposure Club. You can find it here.

You can find a good chunk of good hip hop in there as well. I suggest you nab The Coup as well as that Ozomatli joint. You might like them.;)

Heh. Curse OV Dialect is pretty interesting. Dalek, music-wise at least, can keep my attention for a decent period of time. Alias and Busdriver are also of particular note. I mainly go for the instrumental stuff, though (Prefuse 73, Nobody, Fat Jon, Nujabes, Daedelus, Dabrye, etc).

Sorry man...what I meant what THIS album:

Return of the Ox - Live at CMJ

1. Can Ox Medley
2. Battle For Asgard
3. Mighty Joseph Medley
4. Cip One
5. Believe
6. Who's That Drunk Dude
7. Taboo
8. Vein
9. Stay Up
10. Raspberry Fields
11. AK-47
12. Cold Vein
13. From The Planet of Eat (Produced by El-P)

Check out one of the tracks @ http://www.definitivejux.net/jukies/...x/discography/

Meh...I guess nobody has it =/