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-   -   [PS3] PlayStation 3 Discussion Thread (http://www.gamingforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121)

Mercury Nov 13, 2006 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cetra
It was similar, I guess people don't remember Sony only had 500,000 PS2s for the US release as well. Of course they brought in another half a million later that week and it had already been in Japan for a year meaning units were not being split between the two countries. Japan also had near a million units for their PS2 launch. Only having 100,000 PS3s there is going to result in some murders for sure.


Hehe, I see… so in fact what we are seeing here is just normal proceeding of things when a new long awaited console comes out, except maybe for the fact that now, much more pre-release information (or hype) is available on the web for everyone to grab at will…

vergil Nov 13, 2006 05:04 PM

You may remember the media reports of people being robbed of their Xbox 360consoles during last year's launch,well since these guys wont let that happen,i would just love to see them not get any PS3's or get busted by their bosses and girlfreinds.All these lines for the PS3...what about the wii?

Soldier Nov 13, 2006 06:45 PM

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried whether my pre-order will still be honored or not. When my sister went to reserve it for me, she said she was number 7 in line, and that the store was receiving 10-16 systems.

Two factors that help ease my mind are A) my Gamestop is pretty reliable, so if they guarantee a certain number of systems, it should stick and B) I reserved the $500 system, and I was told I was only one out of 3 who requested that model. Well, I'm not exactly sure if the latter is a plus or minus, but I'm thinking since the demand for the 60gb is higher, then there's a less likely chance of them reducing the number of 20gb models.

Who knows. I'll have to find out tommorow.

value tart Nov 13, 2006 06:56 PM

Not to be a total killjoy, but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOLDIER
Two factors that help ease my mind are A) my Gamestop is pretty reliable, so if they guarantee a certain number of systems, it should stick

Even if they're the best GameStop in the history of EVER, I highly doubt that any one GameStop will get the original allotment of preorders they gave out. If they're getting half of what they were expecting to get chainwide that guarantees every store will be getting less than what they thought they were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOLDIER
and B) I reserved the $500 system, and I was told I was only one out of 3 who requested that model. Well, I'm not exactly sure if the latter is a plus or minus, but I'm thinking since the demand for the 60gb is higher, then there's a less likely chance of them reducing the number of 20gb models.

Yes, the demand is lower, but from what I've seen the amount they're making is also quite lower. I know at my Toys R Us we took 7 preorders for the $600 system and 1 for the $500. If we were in the same boat as GameStop it'd be entirely possible we didn't recieve any of the cheap version.

Soldier Nov 13, 2006 07:12 PM

Yes, I know A) isn't a factor that means my odds are good, it's just a matter of blind faith. And B) could go either way I guess.

I just hope the original reserves were 16, not 10, because then I'd be guaranteed the system if they were cut in half (no 7 out of 8, versus 7 out of 10).

EDIT: "Hello this is Gamestop where you can buy and sell used games."

"Hi, I would like to find out my number in the PS3 reserves. I hear your shipment may be cut in half."

"Oh, alright man, let me bring out the manager. I reserved my own system, so I'm pretty pissed about the whole thing."

Manager: "Hi, can I get your last name?"

"It's *********"

"Okay, let me see....."

Spoiler:
"Oh, you reserved the 20gb system right?"

"That's right."

"Oh, okay then, you'll be getting it for sure this Friday."

"Oh cool, thanks."

:D

B) wins.

immp Nov 13, 2006 07:56 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHS07...elated&search=

That is one massive fan.

DjMeas Nov 13, 2006 08:42 PM

I'm starting to re-think the whole camping out Thursday thing.

What if i just woke up around 3-4am Friday morning and waited from
then on. I wonder what my odds would be... hmmm.

Cobalt Katze Nov 13, 2006 09:29 PM

So I dropped by EB today to trade in an old Xbox game to put towards the PS3 since I don't have anything better to spend it on...

Guy at the counter recognized me from when I put in my preorder. Wanted to let me know that they have absolutely no idea how many consoles they're getting in, and that he's going to call the preorderers later this week to let them know if they're gonna be able to get one on Friday...

They'll be going in order of the line, so if they get at least 5 in, I'm golden...

In other news, Target was right next door so I went in to check out the PS3 kiosk (Best Buy, EB and Gamestop all didn't have them up).

XMB was smooth, loved the colour scheme and how responsive it was. Easily was able to select the game section, which was loaded with 2 demo videos and 2 playable demos, NBA07 and Motorstorm. Pretty obvious which one I chose.

Game had a bit of a loading time once you selected a race, but it wasn't too major and they have plenty of time to clean it up. Plus, it gave me time to check out the controls. There were two setups you could choose from, both were Raingod Mesa. However, one had cars only, and the other included bikes as well.

When I first picked up the game, some guy let me continue his race. He had a car, and it felt somewhat chunky and medium speed but as a plus could survive things pretty well and plow over certain barriers. I also totally destroyed a bike in front of me once, and rammed another car off the track. Suuuuch a satisfying feeling.

Second time around, I had a go at a bike. Wow, the things are like made of glass. However, for pure speed you can get such an advantage over the other racers if you do well and take advantage of the bike's physics. Given the lighter nature of the vehicle, you can rotate the thing and maneuver your tires in the air so that when you land into a big turn, you just keep on barreling forward. When I played as the car, I on a hairpin turn I had to take the turn much more carefully and slowly so as to not smash up against the rock wall. Of course, the bike is equally susceptible to large walls. But the in-air handling felt much better for nailing the turn.

More so than other racing games I've played, I think a lot of the strategy for Motorstorm will be memorizing the courses and knowing which paths are safer for which vehicles... as well as getting mastery over the physics of your specific vehicle class. Unfortunately, no ATVs, trucks, or bigdamntrucks were included in the demo. But next year couldn't come any sooner... I'll definately be downloading the demo like what.

Omnislash124 Nov 14, 2006 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USA Today
Sony's PS3 will not run many older titles

Ken Kutaragi, president and group CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment, holds up a box with the PlayStation 3 during its launch ceremony in Tokyo. Sony says some older games won't play on the new console.

TOKYO (Reuters) — Sony said on Tuesday its new video game console, the PlayStation 3, does not run about 200 PlayStation and PlayStation 2 software titles properly, the latest problem the electronics maker has run into in its cash-cow game business.

The PS3, which Sony calls its most important strategic product of the year, went on sale in Japan on Saturday, setting the stage for a three-way showdown with Microsoft's already available Xbox 360 and Nintendo's Wii.

Sony said audio features do not work on some software titles when played on the PS3, which is supposed to be compatible with games designed for its previous models, while some other titles do not work on the latest machine at all.

Shares in Sony closed up 0.9% at 4,730 yen, underperforming a 1.64% gain in the Tokyo stock market's electrical machinery index IELEC.but in line with Nintendo stock.

Industry specialists say the glitches appear to be the kind of hiccups that often plague console launches and are not likely to have a lasting impact on the PS3 business.

"There are always sorts of little problems at launch ... It may take some time to make everything compatible, but I don't think it's a huge problem," KBC Securities analyst Hiroshi Kamide said.

Indeed, Microsoft received customer complaints following its Xbox launch in Japan in 2002 that the console was scratching game discs, while Sony's PS2, which it released in 2000, had compatibility problems with PS games.

Sony Computer Entertainment (SCE), Sony's game unit, plans to fix the PS3 problems by offering online upgrades for system software, SCE spokesman Satoshi Fukuoka said.

Sony sold 88,400 units of the PS3 in the first two days of the Japan launch, clearing out most stores' stock, video game magazine publisher Enterbrain said on Monday.

The PS3 will be launched in North America on Friday. Gamers in Europe must wait until March due to a glitch in commercial production of blue laser diodes, a key component of the game gear's Blu-ray high-definition DVD player.

The Tokyo-based electronics and entertainment conglomerate aims to ship 6 million units of the PS3 by March.

The original PS and PS2 have each sold more than 100 million units.

Sony, which has dominated the game market over the past decade, has packed the PS3 with its latest technology including a Blu-ray player and the Cell microchip, dubbed a "supercomputer on a chip".

But the new machine's lifelike graphics and fast downloading of game software and video clips come at a price.

Sony sells a basic model for 49,980 yen ($424.9) in Japan, almost double the price of the Wii, which will be released in the United States on Sunday and Dec. 2 in Japan. ($1=117.63 Yen)

Source

Granted, 200 Titles that don't work is a relatively small percentage of titles when you compare with all of the titles released. But still, would this be the blu-ray's doing that cannot read CDs and DVDs correctly?

Metal Sphere Nov 14, 2006 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omnislash124
Source

Granted, 200 Titles that don't work is a relatively small percentage of titles when you compare with all of the titles released. But still, would this be the blu-ray's doing that cannot read CDs and DVDs correctly?

Has nothing to do with Blu-Ray and everything to do with the emulation. Check out GAF for a bit for lists of games that work but have various glitches in them. 200 games outright not working amongst 5k+ titles really isn't that bad, unless that encompasses popular games.

Spatula Nov 14, 2006 10:32 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if this is all the 3rd party Mahjohng games or Saturday Night Bowling Extreme, or something along those lines.

MY FINAL FANTASY VII DOESN'T WORK!

Alai Nov 14, 2006 11:58 AM

Yeah, this is likely an emulation and hardware issue. The EE+GS in PS2 slim was already incompatable with several PSone and PS2 games. Note that many of the incompatabilities were caused by the realization of one chip for graphics and processing duties in the slim PS2. The issues were not because of emulation, because nothing was emulated. The new hardware was different from the old PS2 hardware, and obviously something changed in the way certain instructions were executed or read. This is probably the same issue that is showing up in the PS3 only compounded. The PSone titles are emulated though. PS2 titles are run natively on PS2 hardware within the PS3.

edit

That's another reason why it's so damned big.

Slayer X Nov 14, 2006 12:52 PM

Well it looks like the PS3 is off to a good start in Japan. It's seemed to have sold all 88,000 units on day one, which is 3k from what the 360 has sold in Japan to date. It's still too soon to tell how far the PS3 will go in Japan, but with it being the only "next-gen" console of interest in Japan (in the sense of the word), the Japanese don't have much choice.

Now only because I know that someone's going to say something about the Wii this is what I simply have to say in short. I don't think that anyone with any common sense would dare say that the Wii won't sell as well or better then the PS3 at launch, but when you compare hardware, games, and experiences they're two different entities. It's like trying to say that X RPG is better then Y FPS.

Metal Sphere Nov 14, 2006 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alai
Yeah, this is likely an emulation and hardware issue. The EE+GS in PS2 slim was already incompatable with several PSone and PS2 games. Note that many of the incompatabilities were caused by the realization of one chip for graphics and processing duties in the slim PS2. The issues were not because of emulation, because nothing was emulated. The new hardware was different from the old PS2 hardware, and obviously something changed in the way certain instructions were executed or read. This is probably the same issue that is showing up in the PS3 only compounded. The PSone titles are emulated though. PS2 titles are run natively on PS2 hardware within the PS3.

edit

That's another reason why it's so damned big.

This man basically covered it all. The "Dragon" chip, which is what the PSTwo and PS3 have in place of seperate EE and GS, caused some compatibility issues when it first rolled around (remember the ruckus over it a while back?). Same thing seems to be happening here as it was dropped into an entirely new architecture, bugs are bound to pop up.

Like you said, they're using emulation for PS1 games, though the same thing will happen with PS2 titles soon enough. It was already mentioned before, that's why some folks are expecting enhancements to come along with that shift.

Can't wait to see what the "PSThree" looks like. Removing the dragon chip would free up a good bit of space, and remove a heat source (though the fan is actually above CELL+RSX). Where is most of the weight of the console coming from? The heatsink, or the soundproofing material that some say is present inside?

Cobalt Katze Nov 14, 2006 01:17 PM

As long as it doesn't screw up: Vagrant Story, Xenogears, Valkyrie Profile and Final Fantasy Tactics... I'll be fine.

If it does, Sony will feel my wrath! Or something.

I'm mainly antsy to get my phone call from EB letting me know if I'll be getting one on Friday or not...

Metal Sphere Nov 14, 2006 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt Katze
As long as it doesn't screw up: Vagrant Story, Xenogears, Valkyrie Profile and Final Fantasy Tactics... I'll be fine.

If it does, Sony will feel my wrath! Or something.

I'm mainly antsy to get my phone call from EB letting me know if I'll be getting one on Friday or not...

Yeah, that was my point. If it's popular titles that are all glitchy, Sony will never hear the end of it. Apparently the console actually speeds up loading for certain titles.

Quote:

Haven't read anything about this yet, nor have I noticed this on all the games, so here goes:

I picked up the Japanese Soul Calibur III this evening (it runs fully in English, too!), and noticed that the load times seemed to be quicker. I couldn't even get a character to say his/her taunt on the match-up screen, as the game would go right into the battle before they could speak, making load times around 1-3 seconds total.

Then it hit me to try the notoriously long-load time title, Neo-Geo Battle Coliseum. Amazingly enough, the load times DO get shortened! Instead of taking between 13-19 seconds to load up a match, the game only takes about 4-6 seconds to load up a stage now, and 1-2 seconds to load up the next set of opponents on the same stage in arcade mode. This is awesome.

Anyone tried and noticed any other faster-loading games yet?
Source

Gizmodo clip of FFXII loading faster than it usually does.

K_ Takahashi Nov 14, 2006 02:39 PM

I wonder of that emulation problem could be fixed with a firmware update.

About the shortage, kinda reminds me of the PSP on how I reserved it but I diddnt get the first shipment :( .

Metal Sphere Nov 14, 2006 03:13 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen, the situation just got a whole lot worse, in launch shipments. It seems like the number of units available has been slashed to about 150-200,000 PS3s, with an estimated 750k sold by the end of the year.

Hopefully this turns out to be far from the truth, but it's looking pretty ugly for preorder/camping folks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamasutra
November 14, 2006

Analyst: 'Battle Royale' To See 150-200k PS3s For Launch?
In his latest interactive entertainment notes, Lazard Capital Markets' Colin Sebastian has made his predictions on the 'battle royale' set to take place this week as the Wii and PS3 see their official US lanches.

Says Sebastian, "This week represents a significant milestone in the interactive entertainment universe," though, he hastens to add, "the significance of the launches for the software publishers is largely symbolic, as the new consoles will not likely be meaningful drivers of software sales until later next year when we expect the installed bases of the PS3 and Wii to reach more critical mass."

Still, "excitement surrounding the hardware launches backed by significant marketing budgets from Microsoft (Xbox 360), Sony (PS3 and PSP) and Nintendo (Wii and DS) – should benefit overall industry trends through the holiday."

On retailers' struggles to secure and supply a continuous flow of hardware, Sebastian adds that Lazard continues to expect shortages for most stores: "Our channel checks with retailers indicate that there is strong interest in both the PS3 and Wii; most stores sold out of pre-orders quickly."

"We expect Sony to deliver 150-200k units to stores in the United States for the launch; consumers without pre-orders may find it difficult to locate an available system. We estimate sales of approximately 750k PS3s domestically by year-end. We expect a more robust launch from Nintendo, with at least 1.2 million units sold in the U.S. and up to four million units shipped worldwide by year-end."

"Due to the limited initial installed base of the platforms, we believe the financial impact over the holiday period will be more significant for hardware manufacturers and video game retailers (such as GameStop) than for software publishers."

In addition to predicting a strong push for Xbox 360 products due to a shortage in PS3 supply, Sebastian also says the newly launched consoles may not have as significant an impact on holiday sales.

He adds: "We expect less than 15% of software sales to come from the PS3 and Wii this holiday; the more numerous Xbox 360, PS2 and handheld platforms (DS and PSP) remain key drivers of growth," though, he predicts, "this fifth major platform transition is likely to be the largest product launch in the industry’s history."


valiant Nov 14, 2006 03:15 PM

Please bear with me, (stupid question)

I haven't been up to date but acknowledging that the PS3 is "region free," does this include PS2 and PS1 titles?

Cetra Nov 14, 2006 03:18 PM

Quote:

I wonder of that emulation problem could be fixed with a firmware update.
Without a doubt these are issues that can largely be fixed with firmware updates. Plus consider the situation. We are talking thousands of games, some only showing the problems midway though play. It just isn't possible for Sony to playtest all of these games to find all of the BC problems for the launch. Fortunately, unlike the PS2, the PS3 can be updated to fix these problems once they are found by the general public.

Quote:

I haven't been up to date but acknowledging that the PS3 is "region free," does this include PS2 and PS1 titles?
Unfortunately it seems both PS1 and PS2 games are still region coded. I'm not exactly sure of the reasoning myself but hopefully this might be something Sony can overturn at a later date with a firmware update.

DjMeas Nov 14, 2006 03:18 PM

Just talked with the manager at my local Bestbuy~

Stores will be openning at 8am and they will be handing out wrist bands
for those waiting in line at 7am. Note that wrist bands are given at
the Bestbuy's manager discretion. So not all Bestbuys will be handing
them out.

There are two near me here and the BB at the mall will not allow
camping due to mall security. The other is off on its own and does
allow camping (which i saw 3 guys already camping out).

Let's see how things go this Friday ^_^

Metal Sphere Nov 14, 2006 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valiant
Please bear with me, (stupid question)

I haven't been up to date but acknowledging that the PS3 is "region free," does this include PS2 and PS1 titles?

PS1 and PS2 region coding is set in stone, so this only applies to PS3 games. Even then, it's up to devs/publishers to lock them or not.

Alai Nov 14, 2006 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cetra
Without a doubt these are issues that can largely be fixed with firmware updates. Plus consider the situation. We are talking thousands of games, some only showing the problems midway though play. It just isn't possible for Sony to playtest all of these games to find all of the BC problems for the launch. Fortunately, unlike the PS2, the PS3 can be updated to fix these problems once they are found by the general public.

Yeah, the PS3 can be updated through firmware. But there is only so much you can do by updating firmware. You should'nt count on them being able to fix it through firmware. Maybe they can, maybe they can't. You can change alot about an electronic system through the firmware, but you can't necessarily change the way a game is processed or how a processor chip may function.

My guess is that they MIGHT be able to fix SOME of these incompatabilities through firmware, and surely they can when they begin emulating the games and getting rid of the EE+GS Dragon chip. But I wouldn't count on them fixing many of these problems with a firmware update.

valiant Nov 14, 2006 03:33 PM

Thanks for clearing that up Metal and Cetra. Guess I would have to stick with my fliptop PS2 for the time being.

Likewise, I believe I will wait for a year or two before purchasing a PS3 when all the error regarding emulation is sorted out.

Cetra Nov 14, 2006 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alai
Yeah, the PS3 can be updated through firmware. But there is only so much you can do by updating firmware. You should'nt count on them being able to fix it through firmware. Maybe they can, maybe they can't. You can change alot about an electronic system through the firmware, but you can't necessarily change the way a game is processed or how a processor chip may function.


Sure you can, that is the entire point of a firmware update. The EE and GS are reprogrammable DSP chips meaning their instruction sets can be changed and updated. With this ability they can essentially change the way an instruction is processed or change the function of the chip. And if for some reason they can't get a method to work in hardware they can always use special case software instruction emulation.

The only thing that is really going to hold back improving BC on the PS3 is the willingness of developers to work with Sony to iron out the issues. Developers are going to have to go through their code and figure out why something isn't working (costs money) or be willing to provide Sony with some source code for the Sony engineers to look through which is risky for the developer.


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