I'm surprised some retailers (namely Circuit City, which we don't have in Canada) are selling them already at "dirt cheap" when it's a "A-tier" title especially on release, but it's probably that lowering the price won't even effect their revenue that greatly, considering the amount of copies they're planning on selling, which would more than off set the reduction in price. Even it's not all that common (although it does happen for the smaller publishers or not so hyped up games: Okami for example) in Canada to see something selling at $49.99 CDN brand new. Usually games are about $59.99 CDN for games brand new for the PS2.

Actually, thinking about it, I've seen more and more $49.99 starting prices, including a 5 day special price for Valkyrie Profile 2, as well as Okami for $39.99 for a 2 day opening special.

I too respect your opinion about FFXII. Not everyone is going to love it. But aren't we taking this "Bash FFXII" routine too far? Sure the games may have flaws and negative values but it surely must have something postive about it.

On the other hand I think a storyline with the lack of character development is a curse and a blessing. Curse as in orphanage scene of FFVIII which completely ruined the mood of the game as opposed to Cloud's past.

I've been reading this thread almost daily the past 2 or 3 weeks, not posting, but reading what you guys have had to say about FF12. It seems not many of you like it, which somewhat dampens my high hopes for this game, but then again...people absolutely abhored FF7: DoC, while I really enjoyed it. If people hated THAT game so bad, then I guess FF12 won't suck for me. I've thoroughly enjoyed every FF so far, and I'm sure this one won't dissapoint me as it has you all.

lol, I liked FF: DOC a lot myself too. ^^ Guess we're doomed to enjoy bad games. So while everyone else is playing FFXII and having a miserable time doing it, I guess we'll be the only ones enjoying ourselves, lol.

It's weird. The first half of the thread was all about praising FFXII once it was leaked out, and then it shifted a complete 180 degrees. Can't people appreciate a game despite it's flaws? Don't all games have flaws?

I think I'll probably enjoy FFXII. Heck, FFVIII is my favourite FF game, and that's generally considered the black sheep. I think every FF game has something good about it that makes them fun to play. Well, except FFII. Blah. A game has to be really bad before I'll actually start hating it, and that rarely happens.

It's because after playing FFX-2, their expectations of the series was greatly hightened... ._.''

To be honest, I stopped playing; and went on to play XSIII instead. <3

Both sides exist to every argument the only difference is whether people want to hear it or not. When the thread started you only heard the good because if someone were to say something bad about the game everyone would bash them for it, whether they're right or wrong. I think now people are a bit more willing to listen to one another hence why you're hearing more negative things now because all the positive things have already pretty much been talked about. However I don't think that anyone's saying that FFXII is perfect, nor is it close to being in your nearest bargain bin anytime soon. We're just picking it apart and we've gotten to the final part which is always a things deepest, darkest secrets that in the big picture might not even matter all that much... depending on who you are and what you like.

But I think to any casual gamer or FF fan it can be disputed as to whether FFXII is the best one or not, but so can every other game in the series. No ONE person can say as to whether something's the best or not, and if you really want to know you're just going to have to play it. But whether it's the best or not, you know that it's still going to be darn good.

Yok yok! I totally forgot about FFX-2. I hated it too, and yes, I understand what you mean. As long as any future FF games doesn't play like FFX-2, I should be fine :D

To me, I think an opinion feels more valid if you give bad points about a game, in addition to stuff that's good about it. It gives a fairer review of the game than one that does nothing but complain about everything in the game. I doubt FFXII is that bad :D

I agree with you 100% Freelance Wolf. Constructive criticisim is the best kind of review, because it tell what one should keep on doing and what one should change. If both sides are taken seriously and followed things tend to improve over the last.

I will definately enjoy FFXII. I am a sucker for political storylines lol.

Well I had really high expectations and envisioned it as the perfect game because I really wanted FFXII to knock FFVII of its pedestal.

LOL, that'll be the day. I think even if it were 5 times better then VII, it still probably wouldn't be enough to knock VII off it's blocks. But that's fine with me. It's not my favouriate, but I still like it a lot. Also I'm use to liking things that are sub "cool", I hate following crowds, so if XII did knock VII off it's pedistal, then I'd be forced to not like FFXII, lol. *kidding*

FFXII deserves all the 10/10s, 9.5/10s, and 40/40s it gets.
A 10/10 by no means means that a game is perfect (as no game is), it just means that the game is the cream of the crop in its category.
And FFXII, with its amazing art direction, gameplay, music, graphics, amount of content, attention to detail, general production values, etc. is just that.

I think it's funny how some FFXII detractors here are trying to discredit the critical acclaim the game is getting from major publications as "fanboyism" and just because its name is FFXII.
Major sites/magazines such as IGN, Famitsu, PSM, etc. deserve a bit more credit than random message board posters, and know more about the profession than any of you.
Also, FFVII: DOC was generally panned by the critics... (as did FFX2 in many cases, though I personally think it's enjoyable) surely it would have gotten great scores because it had Final Fantasy in its name (FFVII even!), going by your logic?

IGN deserves more credit? AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh, you poor, poor boy. You don't really understand how the industry works, do you? Famitsu, I'll give you. They're usually pretty solid. The other two you listed are a complete fucking joke.

The only game that can overthrow FFVII is the remake is itself in hot sexy graphics <3

Famitsu has credibility to it, and while I do enjoy PSM, I know that their opinion is obviously bias. And IGN is a joke in itself. They justify and can spell things just as good as any five-year-old. Don't believe me? Look at their review of God Hand, compare it to all the other reviews and also look at their mastery of the english language. Not only can they not spell, they also don't even write in coheirant terms half the time.

None the less, like I said we may be focusing on the small details that might detract from the game as of now, but no one's flat out calling FFXII bad. If you read previous posts you'd see that every other positive thing about the game has already been talked about. Obviously we'd have to move on to the things that are wrong with it eventually. And as I said in my second-last post, if you don't identify what's wrong with something, no matter how small it is, that something will never get better. It'll just be the same thing over and over and over again.

(just a little note about FFX-2)

even if i did like it, i understand why so much hated it, but for me FFX-2 has one of the best gameplay in an rpg. I love the fast space action in battle and the job system was pretty. If only the story (and everything else) would had follow, i think it would have been a great game...

Out of curiosity for those who played...are the espers controllable or AI? They seem AI but I am not entirely sure.

Final Fantasy spin offs never really get perfect scores anyways.
X-2 had an enjoyable and fast battle system, but I think it was the way that rikku and yuna that acted so much like a sorority girls that was such a turn off since it was a step towards a sailor moon thing with annoying villains

EDIT:Punishment, the espers are controlled by the AI. All you can do is support them.

Yeah, the battle system in X-2 while fast pace and cool for the watching, it wasn't really that hard nor that strategic. Just hold X and throw in the odd magic or special move and you win. And the job system had a cool implementation with the different costumes and weapons per each one. Too bad the gameplay was fuled by hard to enjoy content.

Beat the game tonight.

Well, the story gets a lot better by the very end. I can't wait to download a rip of all the English cutscenes (if anyone does that, like with Xenosaga Ep 1).

Ultimately, the game has a great story in the beginning and end. For the middle and definitely the final few dungeons, it's brutally tedious.

It's in my top 5 Final Fantasies, for sure. Just not my favorite.

lol, guess you're right.

And as for FFX-2, I really enjoyed it. Maybe that's because I was younger back then (I was a seventh grader, now I'm a sophmore in highschool) and didn't really know how to gauge my expectations for games. But I went on to import the International+Last Mission version and enjoyed it even more with the English voice overs and added content, like the battle arena.

So I guess what I'm getting at, back on topic lol, is that it all comes down to taste. A majority of the people here seem to have hated DoC and X-2, both of which I thoroughly enjoyed...guess it's a sickness lol. But maybe I should look back earlier in this thread and take a look at all the good things that people said about FF12, I'm sure it will boost my excitement.

I enjoyed FFX-2 for what it was: a campy, comedic, completely-not-serious game that clearly wasn't meant to be a genre-defining entry in the Final Fantasy franchise. How else are you going to enjoy a game where there's an upbeat pop tune in the opening scene? I haven't played Dirge of Cerberus yet (and I probably won't pick it up until there's some convenient price reductions), so I can't say anything about its entertainment value.

Anyways, let's tackle the "Oh man, this game sucks" atmosphere that's been seeping into the thread. Despite all of the negative things people have said on here so far, I'm still going to go into the game with an open mind. I'm also fairly certain that I'm going to come away from the game with an enthused feeling along the lines of "Holy crap, this is one of the best RPGs I've ever played" not because it's Final Fantasy XII but because I have my own standards upon which I'll be judging the game against. I'm not an RPG junkie (which means I'm not interested in games like Tales of the Abyss or Valkyrie Profile 2) so my opinion may not necessarily matter to anyone else.

In short: just because someone else thinks highly of a game doesn't mean they need to have a counterclaim thrown at them at every turn about how so-and-so element of the game is bad.

Agreed. It is kinda hard to take in that this game has so many flaws after such a long and rocky development history. I too as with other FF games will play it with an open mind.

LESS THEN ONE DAY LEFT!

You beat the game already? I'm not finding this believeable concidering it's a 80+ hour game. Unless you're talking about the japanese version you just beat. That's crazy.

And I've read back to how some people there are hardly any interactions between the characters? What kind of crack are you smoking? There's a lot of it. At least from what I could tell in the first five hours that I have played.

He's had it for a month now and playtimes vary for every player anyways.

Gaming-Age have their review up now - A- Excellent:
http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/re...enum=1&pages=4

I also got the "call" from EBgames today. So close.