I'm a GCN controller user, myself, but that's honestly just because it meant picking up a new game with the same control scheme as the earlier one, and not learning anything besides how to use the characters.

Looks like most people still use the GCN controller. When the game first came out, I only used the GCN controller. The awkward moment comes when I get 3 other people to play. I only own 3 wavebirds, so the fourth person is going to have to use a non-GCN controller. Since nobody else really wanted to use it, I was usually the one using it.

But really, it never bothered me too much. I was never _THAT_ good at Smash since I didn't own a Gamecube or an N64, so I didn't have to change much to pick up a "new" control scheme. In the beginning, I used to pretty much just use B moves the entire battle, which would probably explain why I never won that much. Then I got around to learning to use smash attacks effectively. After that came aerial attacks, which I slowly integrated into my battles. Then, probably too late at that point, I finally learned how to shield effectively (this is probably about 1 year ago?) and consequently, how to roll and dodge effectively. Before then, I never touched those two buttons.

Even now, there are a few things that I still don't do much at all. The biggest one that people point out is grab. I never think to grab somebody ever. The other big one is the use of I believe it's commonly called "tilt" attacks...didn't even know they existed until Brawl came out.

Tilt attacks? Not sure what you're referring to there. As for grabs, I only recently decided to start using them more, but it doesn't come to me naturally. When I happen to remember grabbing exists, I might try a bit more. I'm trying to make it so grabbing seems natural to me.

The only attacks I seem to rarely use are "meteor smash" or spike attacks. I dunno, it just seems too hard to pull off or risky? I know my main used to be Toon Link, which might be why I never got used to them (since if I miss I'd have killed myself). Though when I started playing with Captain Falcon more, instead of trying to edgeguard when my opponent is getting back on stage I'm more likely to run off and try to attack them depending on who I am and who they are. For example, if they're someone like Kirby or Pit, I'd just disregard it since chances are they'll bee to high up in the air for me to risk going after.

And yeah, GCN controller is my preference. I tried the other ones, mainly the Wiimote and Nunchuk combo a few times. Seemed fun, but I sucked with em. The Wiimote by itself is probably easier to master, but since I have a Gamecube controller at hand, I'm sticking with it.

Example:
Down+A (Smash) - Fox's ground split kick
Down+A (Tilt [not at the same time]) - Fox's tail swipe

You get different attacks.

Tilt attacks are a direction + A, but not a smash. That's what I thought they were called anyway, I may be wrong.

EDIT: Chaotic beat me to it. But yeah, both grabs and tilts, I never got to using regularly. It just never felt natural to me. But there's a new term there...What's a meteor smash?

A meteor smash has the same properties of a spike, but is not as powerful as one. An opponent can easily recover from it if they react quick enough.

Falco's Side+B is a meteor smash if the opponent is hit. His D-air is a spike given that a sweet spot is hit sending them directly down.

I can't believe you never heard of tilts. They're right in the tutorial, everyone uses them all the time, and it's in the manual too. I may have a habit of smashing, but some tilts are much more useful in the right situation. Look at snake! You'll never hurt anyone with a down smash if they're right next to you. And Samus's down tilt is surprisingly powerful.

I never understood the difference between "spike" and "meteor smash". As far as I understand, a meteor smash can be meteor canceled but a spike can't, and there aren't any meteor smashes in brawl.

Meteor Smash - SmashWiki - The Super Smash Bros. wiki

EDIT: I think I had it backwards. There's no SPIKES in Brawl, as every one can be meteor canceled.

This was a situation of "I know what it is, just didn't know what it was called."

Alright, I use tilt attacks a fair amount of times. It really depends on the character I guess.

To be fair, the manual calls them "strong attacks". But everyone I've ever heard calls them tilts.

EDIT: Sorry, I thought you were saying you never used tilts.

At low damages you can recover. Obviously you're not gonna kill anyone at 0% and expect them to go straight down. When you start hitting around the 35%-40%, you hit that point of no return if you're spiked.

I use the Remote+nunchuck ,even though using the GC is way easier.

I never understood the difference between spike and meteor smash, and no, the wiki didn't help either. Meteor smash can send you upwards and spike downwards, but spikes are also meteors, no?

Let alone it also probably depends on who's doing it.

I just took a look at the wiki, and it does provide a lot of useful info for each character. I'm surprized to see Jigglypuff as one of the lowest tier characters, as she seems very good if her use her air moves, despite whether the opponent is on the ground or not.

Also I want to give my opinion on "tier" characters. Sure, I don't deny they exist, but these tier lists are usually limited to flat stages, no items, and 1v1. If any of the above are changed, I believe the ranks change.

I also believe Final Smashes play a huge role. In my opinion, Sonic is a very difficult character to use due to his low amount of knockback moves, though he inarguably has the best Final Smash in the game. The only other Final Smash I would allow to compare to this is Snake's, and Wario-man probably comes close. Even though Marth's has a one-hit kill, it's probably (one of) the easiest Final Smash to dodge. If anyone wants to argue with me any any of that stated, we can do a 5-8min battle with Final Smashes on high and see which matches results in more kills using purely Final Smashes, since Final Smashes generally do not require much skill. I basically believe there are many factors that can make many characters very useful in a Brawl, depending on the settings. The game's a lot more balanced than people think, they're just looking at it only from one point of view.

So for 1v1 tourney's, those tier lists are probably best to go by. Otherwise, they should be disregarded.

Off-topic: Also Gargomon, just read your Welcome thread, and sorry about that. GFF has plenty of assholes, which is one of the main reasons why many people left. Pang was actually defending you, even though I understand why you took one of his posts as insulting. You'll be fine, though. You might run into a jackass every now and then, but that's inevitable on any forum.

I totally agree with you Sacred, yeah Sonic FS is cheap (kills fasted than any other and is hard to evade) and my brother gets angry everytime I use Sonic and get the Smash Ball , but then again I only use Sonic against Snake, because I find Snake too cheap, and I find it cheaper if people want to use "tournament rules". (Sorry I´ll try to avoid this)

I try to play Smash in party mode (random stage[even custom], items, any character) everytime I can.

My community of friends actually LIKES playing by tournament rules a majority of the time. By no means do we take it seriously to the point we're gonna compete in pro tournaments, but we use it to evaluate who is better than each other, kinda setting ourselves up in a ranking system.

I play as Falco, a top tier character, and throughout all my friends, I'm probably slapped somewhere in the middle of all my friends. I know how to play as him, but my lack of good dodging skills always screws me over. The current "champ" of all my friends? He mains Captain Falcon, currently considered the worst character in the game.

My occasionally we'll play with items, but they hate it whenever I choose Star Fox characters. I don't really need to explain why. ;)

I usually play to the default setup that the game throws you into. That is, all stages, all items, all characters, item on medium. Too many items make it too chaotic, but no items just makes it boring, IMO. I think a lot of the best moments of the game come from random bombs dropping in front of a charging character and Little Mac making a surprise appearance and punching the shit out of everything. That's really what defines Smash Bros. for me, because I generally hate fighting games with a passion.

What? How is that possible, by definition?
Doesn't "inarguably" mean that you CAN'T argue it? I think you meant "arguably" (which means it has a good case for it).I'll take you on. You pick Sonic, I'll pick random. Let me know when you want to add me.Final Smashes that require skill:
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Mario
Luigi
Wario
Lucario
Ike
Marth
Sonic
Pikachu
Pokemon Trainer
Mr. Game and Watch
Link
Toon Link
Wolf
Fox
Falco
Captain Falcon
Metaknight
Ganondorf
ROB
Zelda
Shiek
Pit (believe it or not)
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong
Bowser
Yoshi
Jigglypuff (usually)
Kirby
Captain Olimar
Ice Climbers

Basically any FS you can aim takes skill. But some, like Jigglypuff's, are actually more or less useful depending on the stage and number of players. Puff Up can score more or less KOs than Super Sonic, depending.
The faster Sonic goes, the easier it is to sidestep.
A little research yielded this:
Transformation time: 12 seconds
Star KOs Mario on Final Destination at 60% (before being hit)
Does 18% on dash, 8-13% or so if nearly stopped.
Can't pass through walls.

So he'd have to hit most characters at least 4 times for a KO (from 0%), unless they're up in the air at the time. Don't take this the wrong way, but you should work on your timing. Try using Super Sonic vs a team of 3 level 9 CPUs and see how hard they are to hit.


I don't really pay attention to tiers, since they don't affect me, and they're constantly changing. Just because the best Metaknight player is better than the best Yoshi player doesn't mean he's cheap or broken.

Emphasis on "generally" and "much".

Basically, for most final smashes, a hardcore tourney player has around as much skill as a casual or just-for-fun player. Most final smashes just require common sense and the press of a button. The only few up there I can see that might take skill is R.O.B, Donkey Kong, and Diddy Kong. Also, why is Snake not up there? He's one of the few that does require skill, as mindlessly blasting everywhere won't do much good. Most others, yes, you need to aim. That's generally it, as the animation takes care of the rest. Sure, some people may have slightly better timing than others, but you don't need much skill to press a button.

Also I can probably battle you tomorrow. Just so you know, what I meant was a Final Smash strictly match. Meaning, when there's no smashball, nothing occurs. When the smashball appears, the person who is supposed to get the smashballs for that match will get it. The other person will get their smashballs next match. Out of the two matches, we see which one had more kills (or which one died more since some Final Smashes can result in the other person suiciding).

I change the rules a little, mostly cause I play with my brothers and sister (we are 4 ^^) so we change to 5 stock, no time, high items (or normal if there are to many random bombs) and turns for stage selection(we even choose custom ones , but one of my brothers hates my stages) , we have been doing that since Smash 64.

And yeah, the best moments come from the randomness you generate with rules like that, love the party ball when one player is charging the smash attack below the party ball, it opens and 4 Bomb-ombs drop, the sound of the explosion is awesome and hilarious at the same time, specially if all 4 players were near.

Gargomon251, I don't know wtf is a meteor smash, I never understood what does the game call a meteor smash, for me it is an aerial attack that has enough power to KO. If someone please could tell me.

I hate Snake's FS, cause it can save him from a KO, granted it has time to use it, and most of the time if he is falling down he has enough time to use it, unless he is spiked. And the explosions are too powerful, big and last long enough that even the smoke has knockback properties. And not only his FS, but all of his attacks that cause an explosion, not to count that his aerial attacks are also too powerful. And I will stop now before I get started with the recovery and speed (cause he is not even slow as he should be).


About the FS needing skill, I think that Samus' FS only needs you to be at an edge and fire away, unlike Captain Falcon's that he needs to be close, and also catch the opponent off guard so it is not evaded.

Assist trophies are balanced, many can be evaded easily. what I hate is that I'm a big supported of Lyn , in the way that I wanted her to be a newcomer, and everytime my opponent uses an assist trophy, she appears and attacks me, not anyone else( in a 4 player battle) but me T_T (In a multiplayer match I have never had Lyn to help me, really)

By definition, it's an attack with enough downward force to potentially K.O the opponent when they're off stage or hanging on to the edge. It doesn't technically have to be an aerial attack since Link's Meteor Smash is actually his Down tilt when an opponent is hanging on to the edge.

You basically have the jist of it, Kanzaki, but it's not limited to aerial attacks.

Whoops, I forgot.But you still need skill to know where and when to use it. Mario, for example. Too close, and they can evade easier. Too far, and it peters out. Plus you gotta be close enough to the edge that it KOs. Unlike Ness where it's PUSH BUTTON RECEIVE KO. Olimar is another interesting one. If you do it near opponents, it meteor smashes and buries, plus it traps them in the landing if they're in the center stage. Just because you can't move once the button is pressed doesn't mean the setup takes no skill. Even Aura Storm takes a bit of skill to predict where the opponents will move, especially in 1v1 matches where you aren't guaranteed to trap anyone.Well ok but after that either we play some regular matches or I remove you because I'd rather not put more friend codes on unless people actually play frequently. My FC is 2578-2771-7231. I'll add you next chance I get.


Anyway meteor smashes, to my understanding, are basically spikes (which are attacks that hit opponents downward at a very sharp angle and relatively high speed) that can be meteor canceled (In melee, there was a special animation for meteor cancels I believe...the difference is you can't break out of the hitstun from a true spike, as far as I understand.) I think the difference may be inertia. A meteor cancel halts all downward momentum, at least in melee. Try meteor smashing a cpu Kirby and you'll see it.

Gargomon, I need your contact info (AIM, MSN) or for you to tell me when you're on.

What the hell? NO REPLIES IN 4 DAYS? What kind of forum is this? Seriously...

One that doesn't care all that much about an 8 month old game, apparently.

Did the mildly undeserved beating you got in Welcome, Welcome get to you?

In all seriousness, the lack of posts means people here are at least playing the game. If someone is spending more time posting about how he plays the game then playing the game then there's something wrong.

I must say, I do miss JAPAN TIEM. Lulz were had.