No, hecklers are part of comedy. I don't think they blew it out of proportion until they demanded money. Also, I'm willing to bet that Gloria Allred called them, not the other way around. She's a fucking bottom feeder. And you know what caused a bad public outlook of Michael Richards? Screaming nigger in a derogatory way at two people who interrupted his set.

they pulled the trigger that set the gun off. Itd be no more ridiculous than them claiming a need for monetary compensation.

I hate hecklers. Had I been there, I'd of told them to shut the hell up. Maybe even used some offensive jargon of my own. Hecklers ruin shows for everyone else because they're selfish and feel that the show should be altered just because they aren't enjoying it. fuck hecklers.

So explain why people can often deal with Hecklers without resorting to yelling racial slurs at people? They pulled the trigger? No they didn't. They might have danced infront of the asshole with the gun and said "shoot me, you unfunny fucker" but they didn't pull the trigger.

Also, I've seen Michael Richards do stand up. He isn't funny. He deserves to be heckled.

And for the last part, Richard Belzer was being heckled at a show once. A man in the audience was talking and said: "where did you get that coat, the discount rack?" Without missing a beat, Belzer looked down and said: "In your mother's vagina, pal. I get all my clothes there. It's like a frickin' warehouse in there." The dude shut the fuck up after that. And you know, not once did Belzer call him a nigger in hate. Don Rickles used to use racial slurs at his audience all the time. Usually when it was Sammy Davis Jr. But you know what, he didn't scream at them and say things like "Fifty years ago, we'd have you hanging upside down with a fork stuck up your ass." That is fucking RACIST, man. He wasn't shooting down hecklers, he was spitting hate at people. There's a way of dealing with people like that, and he chose the wrong way. Keep trying to defend it, though. You've clearly got a strong position here with this "They were being niggers" defence.

yes, he did chose the wrong way to deal with it. But its between him and them, not the whole world. They egged him on and he retaliated inappropriately with anger. I'm not defending it, i'm just not focusing on what way too many people already are.

Ya, he screwed up. Shit happens, its not our business.

It's our business when it happens in a public forum infront of cameras. That's like saying that apartheid isn't our business because we're not African. It wasn't private. It wasn't in the privacy of his den with a fire roaring. It was on stage. Infront of a room full of people.

Again, the monetary thing is bullshit, but the black community being a wee bit fucking incensed by this? Ya, I can see that.

difference of opinion. That doesn't make it public; its between him and them.

it wasn't on the streets, it wasn't on tv (it was _put_ on tv, its different), it wasn't within public property.

it was within a private venue. Its a trivial matter within a private location, therefore, imo, its not our business. Next time you fuck up anywhere thats not contained within your home, lets broadcast it all over everything.

See, I have to highly disagree with that. He called someone a nigger in a public room full of people. It isn't private under the law, and it sure as fuck isn't private under social understanding.

its a private venue, its private property. its is a private room of people, not public; payment is required to gain entrance. These are facts. Deciding whether or not you feel the issue itself is public or private is a separate matter.

It's private property, it's not a private venue. A comedy club, one of the biggest in America, is a public venue.

its private domain. That's what allows them to control it as they see fit.

yes, the public has access to it, but that doesn't make it public domain.

does it make a difference to _you_ either way?

Mate, you walk into any court room in America and tell them what you said on stage in the comedy barn is privilieged because it took place in a private venue. You tell me how that works out.

is that what I said?

No. I'm not black. Nigger doesn't offend me. Now, were my name Jamaal and I found out Kramer just screamed nigger at two guys in a comedy club, I'd probably want a certain amount of him being held responsible.

And yes, that is what you're saying. You're trying to convince me that a public comedy club is a private place so the media shouldn't be able to make a big deal out of it? He talked about hanging the man upside down and jamming a fork up his ass while calling him a nigger. Ya, that's a big fucking deal. Yes, the media should be reporting on it, yes he should be held accountable, no they shouldn't be asking for money. But again, I'd wager that's Gloria Allred. I think the problem, Av, is that you're not sure what you're arguing here.

thats not what I was asking. I was asking if whether you call it public private property makes any difference of your opinion.

It is a private place, with which the public has access to. Those whom were within it as well as officials of the region should be concerned about it. Not all physical and digital media, nor everyone that is exposed to this media.

I'm saying its not all of the world's business. He should be held accountable, but all the world shouldn't make sure of it, nor be riding his ass for it.

You're reading between lines instead of reading the lines.

I find it interesting that you file this in the 'niggers being niggers' file, and then turn around and proclaim that no one should have an opinion unless they're Richards or the hecklers.

is that comment directed at me?

If so... would you happen to be familiar with the term eisegesis?

But you're not defending Michael Richards. Okay.

try to pay more attention. Maybe this will help.

indirectly stating his imperfection and fallibility at the least.
directly stating he was in the wrong.
indirectly stating he fucked up
directly stating it should be a matter of concern, but of those within a particular sphere.
indirectly stating _someone_ should make sure he is held accountable.


Just because I don't hark and rant on how he screwed up, doesn't mean I'm defending him. Even if I felt some NEED to, why bother, plenty of people have done a great job of it, like all the media involved.

BTW, not going to bother replying anymore, your just reading whatever you want into everything. Which a lurker lvoes to do as well. So... why should I bother? All this discussion being trivial doesn't help either...

No, I just quoted you because I like your avatar, dumbass.

Cherrypicking bible quotes, right? What of it?

avanent, I wonder why it's important to you that people recognize that an event taking place in private property is a private event. Whether for better or worse, it's been thrust into the popular eye, people know about it and they have video proof of it happening. Why does it bother you if people form an opinion about this? Notwithstanding the fact that you felt entitled to form your own opinion before handing down the verdict from on high that since this was a private event in some bizarro moon-man logic of yours, therefore people should pay it no mind. Clearly we can see that it is no longer private. Why should people ignore the racist behind the curtain?

So I should only read you literally when you desire to be read literally, but I'm wrong when I read between the lines as well as when I just read what you say at its face value.

Ya, Devo, don't bother. Ava's sort of been debunked as not knowing anything of his own position at this point.

you read whatever you want to into everything a lurker. discussing anything with you, that you dont already agree with, shouldn't be bothered with.

maybe, its an argument. We cant say for sure, but its certainly a possibility. For this very reason, many people are discrediting his apology. Would his apology have meant more if the public eye wasn't on him? Yes.

Would he have apologized if the public eye wasn't on him? We can't say. We know he hadn't yet, but we can't say we know he wouldn't of at all. We only know that the apology came after public presentation. We can no longer know if he would have had the media not focused on him. An apology was pretty much forced, and now we're left guessing its sincerity.

So, which line was I to read between, or within, to find out how "not going to reply" really means "well, maybe one more time."

I'm not reading anything into anything, avarent. You said very clearly that you think people shouldn't have an opinion about this unless they were directly related, but you had no problem giving us your own opinion of the events.

This could only mean...

...!

KRAMER

does that make you feel special? you ever make a mistake?

my intention was not reply to you, because your want and opinion influences you're comprehension and your tongue twists to serve your purpose. I also went back on what I had said, which is why I edited it out. Which you happened to see in under the 4 minutes it existed. I'm going back on what I said once more only to state this. pat yourself on the back. I wish i were so impressive.

Where did I say that? you inferred that. I only stated it shouldn't be our business. While stating how your not reading into anything, you present something you inferred as something I actually stated. True awesomeness. You remind me why I find you not worth speaking to.