On August 11, 1999, by a 6–4 vote the Kansas State Board of Education changed their science education standards to remove any mention of "biological macroevolution, the age of the Earth, or the origin and early development of the Universe", so that evolutionary theory no longer appeared in state-wide standardized tests and "it was left to the 305 local school districts in Kansas whether or not to teach it."[10] This decision was hailed by creationists, and sparked a statewide and nationwide controversy with scientists condemning the change.[11] Challengers in the state's Republican primary who made opposition to the anti-evolution standards their focus were voted in on August 1, 2000, so on February 14, 2001, the Board voted 7–3 to reinstate the teaching of biological evolution and the origin of the earth into the state's science education standards.[10]

In 2002, proponents of intelligent design asked the Ohio Board of Education to adopt intelligent design as part of its standard biology curriculum, in line with the guidelines of the Edwards v. Aguillard holding. In December 2002, the Board adopted a proposal that permitted, but did not require, the teaching of intelligent design.

In 2004 Kansas Board of Education elections gave religious conservatives a majority and, influenced by the Discovery Institute, they arranged the Kansas evolution hearings. On August 9, 2005, the Kansas State Board of Education drafted new "science standards that require critical analysis of evolution – including scientific evidence refuting the theory,"[16] which opponents analysed as effectively stating that intelligent design should be taught.[17] The new standards also provide a definition of science that does not preclude supernatural explanations, and were approved by a 6-4 vote on November 8, 2005 – the same day, interestingly, on which the Dover school board members were voted out (see above).






So yes, though they were overturned, the point is this was being taught in a classroom, hotshot. There is no raving christian right trying to get things taught in a classroom, except that every few years, Georgia, Kansas and Illinois have to have a serious debate about where God belongs in classrooms. And they have, on several occasions, decided to teach ID as a substitute to science. So there ARE people pushing this through in certain parts of the country.

You want to know -WHY- they can't make it stick? Because there are people educated on the subject and taking it on headfirst when it rears its ugly head.

People who don't confuse Creation Science with creationism, for instance, sir. You're not needed here. All you've done is basically say "NO ONE SHOULD TALK ABOUT THIS" and dig your head in the sand.

Which only proves that people pass on their values. Or try to.

The Soviets taught their own brand of evolution to their children. It involved the evolution of giraffe's necks stretching together in socialist solidarity. It was based on pure scientific theory, not matter how much they twisted it for political ends. Didn't make it anymore ludicrous then I already made it sound.

Not anymore. It was overturned. End of story.

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Oh wait, it will be upheld in any future case. That's the real end of the story.

Yes, because if we all stop paying attention to it and laugh it off, saying education and science are unnecessary things to defend THAT'S the best way to do it. Because complacency, that's the best answer!

You're not terribly bright, son. Peddle yourself elsewhere. Both sides of this debate think you're a prat.

Alright, ladies. I liked it just fine when it was a nice debate but now it's gotten well off into PP material, which I'm sure LordsSword wanted it to be anyway. Enjoy the view.

It has already been established that these attempts are and will be unsuccessful in the future. There's no problem unless they're successful, which doesn't seem very likely. So all you're doing is waving a red herring at me.

What are you going to do to make people stop trying pass off their values on others at any rate? Fighting bigotry with more intolerance is a losing a battle.

By continuing these pointless debates you've established one thing; they've won. As long as the debate continues they win. And they're the minority to boot. Now that's something to be enraged about!

What makes you think there isn't a agenda already at work? Was the Soviet Union's fine example of adaption in biological evolution not enough?

I'm sorry, did you just infer that the North American school system is pushing an agenda akin to Soviet Russia?

Yeah, from this point on I'm ignoring you completely. You clearly have no grasp of history, biology, or the real world. Kudos, sir, on managing to be as fucking idiotic as LordSword from a completely different perspective.

LOL ignored for being level headed. :tpg:

"This house is brand new! It hasn't burned down yet! That means it must be completely immune to fire!"

You guys know that if this issue comes up, you're supposed to do everything you can to stop it, right? That even if it does get through that it'll be overturned by the courts, right? That arguing until you're blue-faced on the internet isn't how you combat creation science, right?

Right? Right? Right? hey guys

As Lordsword and Watts aren't actually in any position to push creation science (as neither of them are of age to vote) I think I can call this a crisis averted.

Not to say that you don't have a fat lot of nerve complaining about people fighting over the same hot button arguments but

Did you know that you can stem threads from being interesting by not posting in them yourself? That you too can stop the viral infection that is internet posting?

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/Mo...ipTroopers.jpg

I'm pretty sure LordSword is, actually.

Just sayin'. ;_;

Being religious is no excuse, don't they teach critical thinking these days?

fucking kids

I'm glad that somebody else found this all amusing as much as I did. ;)

I'm just not sure where Watts is pushing Creation Science.

I dunno what kind of wires got crossed, but basically Watts is saying that there isn't a massive Christian Right boogeyman out there that's forcing their agenda on the country at large.

The fact that we're having a Creationist Science debate gives credence to their ideas, because it makes it seem like it's worth debating. There's nothing to debate. Creation Science isn't science, period. The vast majority of our public school systems think so. The vast majority of Americans think so. And our courts think so.

Creation Science isn't science. That's as far as this needs to go.

Still Watts, what were you inferring about agendas and evolution in schools? Because I don't see any kind of agenda unless it involves not teaching kids properly.

Oh no, cap'n. I assure you. Plenty of us find you right amusing. Especially the bit where you infer scientific study is akin to Soviet Russia skewing knowledge to make a political point.

Much like philosophy or economics, science has a long history of being co-opted to further social/political agendas. Theories of evolution and natural selection, or rather how it was interpreted spawned social agendas like eugenics (ie: racial discrimination) and political agendas like social Darwinism. (ie: colonialism) Both of which were taught in science classrooms.

It's complacent or lazy to assume that other agendas are not at work in modern day curriculum. Presenting and passing on modern day values onto the next generation.

Its complacent or lazy to make a statement and not present evidence to the current situation. Okay, so there have been times that science has been twisted into an agenda - either make an example involving current situations or shut up.

Well, coming out of the public school system, I'm having a hard time identifying what agenda, if any, is currently at work. We're obviously not pushing for eugenics any more, and Social Darwinism went the way of the dinosaur. If anything the agenda at work is to keep people ignorant of evolution so that interested parties can claim that "it's just a theory" and not instantly be reacted to with scorn. Most everything I learned about evolution I pretty much taught myself. I can't even recall taking anything resembling a biology class in High School, and I went to a school with a high number of college-going graduates.

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I like the inference that people who believe in theological creation are people who struggle to get their GED. :)

Last time I checked I wasn't living in Nazi Germany. Eugenics? Come on now.

I'm not saying that the kids should be dumb, our school actually had a plan to gear us for college. In many ways it was preparatory. The fact that none of us were really prepared for any field involving biology couldn't have just been a mistake.

Eugenics carried a tremendous stigma because of the Holocaust. Before WW2 it was illegal for the retarded to procreate.