About self defense on your own proporty...

Well, lets put it this way when your mom has two children at home that are 2 and 1. Your mom having only one hand due to birth defect. She had to rush into the closest, grab the shotgun, load it and cock it with one hand without any problems and wait for the intruder to bust down the door and just try it. Cause if he would have(He gave up trying to bust in), he would have been more then likely missing a leg or two cause trust me, I've seen my mom fire handguns and other things in target practice. She does very well for having one hand.

That is the only time I know of, but even then, even now, I do feel much safer in my house with a gun or two. Hell, even hunting rifles will do the trick, or even a crossbow. My uncle who lives in upnorth wisconsin has used a crossbow for hunting and as well some other weaponary. He uses it even in self defense cause of the drunkards who go hunting, get drunk wander off and threaten people with the guns.

Oh and if you want to go very primal, use a crossbow, that'll really get them then. A nice big bolt into the chest or anther body part.

To me, there is no peace way to deal with someone breaking into the house armed or not. I'd still rather have the edge on the robber with an ambush, warning them and if they do not disarm, take out a leg or arm and then disarm them and if I must go farther then I will, simple as that.

You don't know me very well, thats all I have to say. Go read my comments in the "martial arts" thread. There's alot more to self-defense than having a gun...

The gun is the way to go in certain situations (like armed robbers breaking into your home), but it's not always the best choice, or the smartest choice...

Bullshit.

Also, the .357 was designed as a "hunting" version of the .38 specail

I never said "everyone" should have one, LOL. I'm just explaining my own reasons for wanting one. Guns aren't for everyone. However, I do think that most people are smart enough and responsible enough to own a gun...

Agree with David on the reason that there are certain reasons why to use a gun on someone but to me, using it makes it certain that I am a step up from the robber rather he is armed or not. Even if I am going to use it or not.

With that being said, the only ways i was taught how to use was a gun or knife, so either way even if I am just using it to capture someone without even firing a single round or make them run away. I'd rather do that then try to use something else and die.

It isn't that the gun is bad, it's how you use it.

In most home defense situations, a gun is really overkill. If you're worried about the safety of your home and family, before you consider purchasing a gun, consider a dog. German shepherds, retrievers of the Laborador or golden variety, the fact is that dogs know something is up when someone comes in the house without your permission. And most lowlifes don't have the guts to face down an animal with sharp teeth and a threatening bark. On top of all that, a dog is a companion, too. I know my Remingtons don't wag tails and run in circles when I get home. So yeah. Dogs are usually an adequate alternative, unless you're in a particularly bad area where people will kill your poor pooch just to get that drug money, if they're capable. But even then the dog's still a good early warning system. If you're allergic to dogs or something that'd be another thing too. But yeah. Dogs that have the potential to be threatening are an extremely good crime deterrent.

Hmm, yeah, a dog won't help you if it's dead.

I like how Alice is so quick to call me out, but has yet to make any retort...

You gotta replace them every once in a while.

It's because you're being retarded, keener. You make statements as if you know the demographics and crime rates on every area of the country, which you clearly do not. I'm just tired of arguing with you, and that's the plain and simple of it.

I told you about the three murders that have occurred in my neighborhood, yet you still act like you aren't convinced that there's a need for a gun. Also, you say things like, "What if someone takes that gun and uses it on you?" which is fucking ridiculous because they'd be dead as soon as they started toward me.

I'm not some crazed killer, but I know how to use a gun and I have absolutely no problem using it if I feel threatened in my own home. Whatever you say won't change my mind. This is America, punkin. I have the right to bear arms and I'm going to take advantage of it.

I'm tired of arguing with you. Your points are weak, and I'm bored.

God this is what I missed about this forum... All these retards who misrepresent your point of view.

That's fine that your done, I will be to, but rereading your posts you said nothing about 3 murders in your neighborhood in any other post than the one I'm quoting. And please don't take that mom 'tone of voice' with me, just because you protected your kids from a stick that brushed up against your house. You DO have the right to bear arms but I also have the right to find you points just as weak as mine.

Wow a lot happened here since I last logged on...

ArrowHead: I suggest you get some real experience before you judge a firearm. The reason I don't like Glocks is that they are overpriced plastic garbage. I can get something far more reliable for more than 1/2 the price. BTW CS doesn't count as experience with a weapon. Also did you know that the reason why we use 5.56mm (.223) ammunition in the military is not to kill, rather it is to disable and force the enemy to use two other men to carry the wounded off the battle field, in my opinion unless you are in a fire fight with someone wearing Kevlar .223 would be horribly underpowered and in a life or death situation you want to end it as fast as possible... not have to shoot the other guy 3 or more times to take him down. You hear about those FBI agents who had to shoot someone crazed on PCP more than a dozen times to take him down? Oh btw they were using 9mm ammunition. Another reason why I prefer .44 mag or .45 ACP, should I ever have to use it I know it will not take 12 rounds to disable or kill someone.

David4516: Thanks for the rebuttals while I was gone. Seems you have been dead on the money so far. Have you ever heard of Hi-Point firearms? Seems they sell some dirt cheap and reliable pistols and pistol carbines. I've considered buying their .45ACP model. Can't beat the price at 129.99 retail.

AliceNWondrland: Yeah I don't see anything about murders :/ on a side note though we had some a few gang shootings a while back and this is Oregon!

Also about the dog idea. I wouldn't trust my life solely on a dog, even a trained police dog. I don't like putting my life in the hands of others when they can't even count... ASVAB Score = -10. Not to say that it is a bad idea for home protections as we have had our little lab/shar pai mix chase off an addict. Unfortunately he went to the next unlocked door which was our neighbors who had two teen aged girls asleep in bed :(. Needless to say it didn't end well.

Harmonica: A gun is never overkill for home protection, only the use of the gun could be overkill. i.e. someone breaks into your home and you pop out with a pistol or shotgun pointed at them and they run. If you shoot them running away that is murder. However if they in turn start to point a weapon at you or reach for anything and you shoot it is self defense. Remember, the only time when it is legal to kill someone is when they have 1.) Committed a felony and 2.) you are now fearful for your life or the lives of loved ones.

Harmonica, I think you have the right idea about dogs. They are a good way of scaring off criminals (most people don't want to mess with an animal with pointy teeth). I don't know that I'd trust my dog to be 100% effective against criminals though. He's kind of lazy, he might just decide to sleep instead of trying to scare off any would-be home invaders. So I'll keep my gun as a backup to the dog...

I like to think that I know what I'm talking about. I've got almost 20 years of shooting experiance (been shooting since I was a kid), I've also worked at places where it was my job to sell guns. I wouldn't call myself an "expert", but I do consider myself to be pretty knowledgeable.

Not only have I heard of Hi-Point firearms, I've shot them before. To be honest, I wouldn't trust them with my life. They're dirt cheap and fun to shoot, but I don't feel they are as reliable as they should be. On top of that, they're freaking HUGE. It's shaped more like a brick than a handgun. If you're looking for a decent pistol in the $130 price range, I'd recomend the Makarov. I've been very impressed with the one I bought, in fact it is my weapon of choice for concealed carry (I think I mentioned this before).

This next comment is to every one in general: If you're thinking about buying a gun, do not chose one based on caliber. What I mean by this, is don't buy something simply because it's a .45 or a 9mm or whatever. Buy it because it has the features you're looking for, and because it fits well in your hand. Ergonomics (spelling?) can be very important. Caliber isn't nearly as important as most people think. As long as you can hit what you aim at, even a smaller round like .32 ACP can do alot of damage...

I can't. In Canada you can't just decide "well fuck I'd like a shiny new handgun" and go out and buy one. This is a civilized, sane country.

Owning a weapon doesn't make you all-knowing. It makes you armed, and predisposed to violence over thought.

Duh. It's one of the oldest tactics in the book - wound, don't kill, because killing only takes one man off the battlefield but wounding takes three off.

Stop right there. I live in a country where firefights just don't happen. Because we just don't let any wacko buy a gun!

I guess you've never been shot. Being shot will make you think twice about what you're doing, to say the least.

"Bigger is better" stupidity. You know, if someone really wanted to do you in, he'd run you over with his car. So what are you going to do now, hide an RPG under the back seat?

Looking at the statistics of how many children accidentally kill each other with their parents handguns, I beg to differ.

You seem to think that because your country heavily regulates firearms that people don't have them. Remember, regulations on firearms take weapons out the of the hands of the citizens, NOT the criminals. Get a clue.

This situation in itself is stupid Arrow, someone who wants to rob you is not going to run you down with a car. However someone who wants to murder you might just do that. Most criminals when you pull out a pistol are just going to run because you are now dangerous to them, they have lost control of the situation, and in all reality most criminals are cowards. Besides the fact that a shot from a .22 or .223 isn't always going to disable a criminal, a shot from a .45 will most certainly do a LOT more damage and unless the guy is wearing armor he will be down in a matter of seconds from blood loss.

You seem to be very ignorant on what it means to own a firearm here. I was taught at a young age to respect firearms, they are tools not toys. You seem to think that because I own them I am more likely to go out and start shooting people. I have said otherwise. I know when such measures such as a pistol or other form of defense are needed. Don't mistake those who own guns as mindless hicks who shoot up everything they see, this is not the case. I am not more predisposed to violence than anyone else. The difference is that I now have the ability to defend myself against an armed criminal. Something an unarmed citizen lacks.

No, if properly used and handled a firearm is not overkill. Most of those situations are the fault of the parent for not giving their child a heathly respect/fear for a gun. You might want to beware those statistics, they like to include all those gang shootings into their statistics to over inflate the numbers.

Exactly. It's not so much the size of the piece of hot metal that's entering their body quite forcefully, it's just the fact that there is a piece of hot metal entering their body quite forcefully. For home defense, smaller calibers are a better choice, because they have less potential to overpenetrate and ruin things in your house or even hurt the people you're trying to protect, which is sort of counter-intuitive.

Technically no. I'm not sure about all of Canada, but I know firearms aren't encouraged here. They're in the works of banning citizen owned firearms in Ontario. I think you need to have a pretty good reason (a permit) to own a firearm here.

I have to agree with a dog being a good idea for home defense. A few years ago someone broke into our garage with intent to steal our car (they'd already stole another car down the road and crashed it) and they were scared away by our dog's barking.

It's true that a dead dog can't defend your home, but honestly, look at how many break-ins have resulted in a few things being stolen as apposed to those that have ended in deaths. Also, even if someone is comming to do you harm, and they end up killing your dog, you're most likely going to hear the commotion and be able to better defend yourself by being aware that something is going on.

It's understandable to have a gun for protection, but I don't think it's necessary for me. The need for protection in northern Minnesota is pretty small. That break-in in our garage is about the only break-in in my neighborhood that I've ever heard of. Not too dangerous.

i think gun regulations are in need espically in regards to such weapons as shotguns. After this weekend's massacre up in seattle were an acquaintance of mine was killed by a shotgun. Seriously, why are shotguns legal? you really can't hunt with them without maiming the animal to the point of the meat being unusable. All they are is people killers.

I do airsoft, does that count?

I'm more inclined to say that a man killed your friend, not the gun that he was holding. Shotguns are not as bad/pointless as hanguns.

I'm sorry that you have to suffer the loss of someone you know. But as ArrowHead has already said in more or less words, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." It is these sorts of knee jerk reactions that get stupid and pointless laws passed that only stop law abiding citizens from gaining firearms, NOT criminals. Cutting legal avenues of weapons will only cause a rise in deaths like this.

Handguns serve just as much a purpose as shotguns do. I have no idea why you are so blindly biased against handguns but they are not only effective self defense weapons, they are also used to hunt small to medium game (sometimes large game by the brave...). A shotgun is great for home defense but you can't take a shotgun with you at all times.

I don't like handguns because they can be concealed, and because the vast majority of them are, like Iwata said, "people killers".

I'd say shotguns aren't quite so bad because 1) They can't be concealed like hanguns can and 2) As mentioned earlier in the thread, shotguns can be good for home defense, because buckshot is not as likely as a bullet to go through the wall and injure/kill someone in the next room.

When I move out, Im probably gonna get quite a few guns just in case zombies should appear. Im not gonna get enough guns to kill off a devastatingly large population of zombies, but only enough guns and ammo to make a driving path to get to a gunstore so I can load up on more guns and ammunition.


But more on topic, I agree that people kill people. The reason I dont like people who own guns is because I dont know, thus dont trust them to be responsible with a firearm like I would be, but its something I have to accept because Im thinking of owning a pistol for home protection. But hell, I might not, since I get somewhat nervous and paranoid around guns.

In Oklahoma it's legal to shoot someone trespassing on your land provided you have no trespassing signs in place. In the towns you can get nailed for improper use of a firearm but not charged with murder for shooting someone who breaks into your hoem if I remember correctly. Not entirely related but i find it interesting and it always kept me out of random peoples fields when I was kid.

I don't really find that I need a gun of any kind really but I like them enough that I plan to buy one when i can scrape together the money. Only been shooting once but it was really fun and I'm fairly certain I can resist the urge to shoot random people.

Its this kind of ignorance that puts stupid laws into effect.

Can't hunt with a shotgun? You're kidding, right? Shotguns are ideal for many kinds of hunting. Bird hunting for example. If fact it's pretty much impossible to bird hunt with anything other than a shotgun. Also, shotguns are popluar (and in some cases, the only legal firearm) for deer hunting in populated areas, because a shotgun slug won't go as far as a rifle bullet, and is therefore safer.

So, that evil shotgun just decided to murder someone? I don't think so, as others have said, guns don't kill people, people kill people. I'm sorry to hear that your friend died, but he was killed by some crazy bastard, not by a shotgun...

I don't understand the appeal of airsoft... and I don't think it counts either, LOL...

I like handguns for the very reason you don't like them: they are portable and concealable. I disagree with the "people killers" part though. Many people use handguns for target shooting and/or hunting. I also carry one when I'm out in the woods because I've had encounters with bear and cougar before. When you're face to face with a 500 pound animal with pointy teeth, you feel alot better knowing that you can shoot it if you have to. There are many reasons why a person might want a pistol, they aren't just "people Killers"...

I understand you're feelings, but that's just how it is. Look at cars for example, they are far more dangerous than guns, yet you're surrounded by them, and they're being driven by people you don't know, and therefore don't trust...

On a side note, have any of you seen "Thats my Bush"? There was a great episode dealing with these very issues, and the moarl of the story was "You should have the right to bear arms, but not the right to arm bears"...