You can organize them by Album, or by Genre, or by Artist name (or whatever), but you can't organize them in precisely the way I mentioned, (In a hierarchal directory structure with sub-directories for genres, albums, and discs) to my knowledge. Did you see the image of my folder structure? Tell me how, using the default iPod OS, and iTunes, to organize my songs, exactly like that, so that, when navigating using the default iPod OS, I will be able to browse through them in exactly that way. (Just as if I were going through my hard drive in Windows.)

I tried that, it didn't work. I tested it with my Chrono Trigger album. All of the disc numbers were properly entered, (as well as all of the rest of the information) but it still only sorted all of the songs under "Chrono Trigger OST". What I wanted, was when I clicked on "Albums" in the main menu, and then selected a multi-disc album, was for it to go to a sub-screen with each of the discs listed separately. Then I could pick the disc I wanted to listen to. But I couldn't find a way to do that.

But, even if I could now, it doesn't matter. All of that is in the past, and I'll never have to worry about it again.

There isn't. The iPod by itself isn't a folder-based navigation system. You can get close with ID3 tags. For instance, like I said, I could drill down to the Chrono Cross OST by going "Genre > Game > All Artists > Chrono Cross OST". Or I could get to the first Azumanga Daioh OST by going "Genre > Anime > All Artists > Azumanga Daioh OST 1".

What it lacks in adhering to your exact system, however, it makes up for in flexibility. It's faster to get to that Azumanga Daioh OST by going "Albums > Azumanga Daioh OST", 'cause it's in the A's. Or, I could get all Frou Frou tracks to play by going "Artists > Frou Frou > All Albums" and shuffle them. With your system, Frou Frou's work is spread out over both the Pop genre folder (I'd assume) and, say, a Movie Soundtracks genre folder.

But, obviously, all this is merely an academic exercise.

For multi-disc albums, I've always used ascending numbers for the tracks on second and third discs (eg. 14-28 on the second disc, 29-46 on the third, etc.) This always help keep things in order. Now doing this can't really be automated, so you'd have to work at it.

I prefer both Library, and file structure (yeah for Winamp 2.9!!). But if I had to choose, I'd choose library. File structure is fairly good for copying and editing files, but rarely so for listening. Too messy.

Oh, I know you can't. But Mucknuggle said I could, so...

Also, no album exists in more than one genre folder. And navigating is no problem. Let's say I'm in the second level directory, this is what I see

\Anime\
\Classical\
\Comedy\
\Pop\
\Rock\
\Techno\
\Video Game Music\

I can just go to Anime and then to Azumanga Daioh OST. Or if I canted to play some Jet'sN'Guns, I just press back twice, and go to Video Game Music, and then to Jet's'N'Guns. See, simple.

I actually used to do this for some multi-disc albums, but it was such a pain in the ass that I quit.

I don't see what's different about using the Genre menu item. It's the same on an iPod. If I browse to it, I can just hit back up to Genre, to go Game, and get to a Game OST. Simple. ;) AND I get other options, like to browse the full list of artists, without picking a genre first.

Agreed. I like iTunes' scheme—if you put in disc number info it tacks the disc number on the front of the file name. Hence, anything on disc 1 would be "1-## Track Name.ext" where ## is the track number (of course). Means you can keep the album all together without making folders, and the files are in order so if someone obtains them from you, they'll still be in order when he or she adds them to a playlist.

True. Except for the fact that I actually have to go to the trouble of filling out all of the tags. ;) Besides, there are other reasons I installed Rockbox. The primary reason being Musepack, OGG, and FLAC support. :D

Ok... I gave up on reading the stupid arguments on which is better three pages ago. I'll just add my two cents. :-D

Apple provides great products. The iPod is an example of those. No it does NOT look like a 'stupid brick' and YES it does have a great navigation system and good audio quality.

It just seems to me there are some serious ZEN fanboys out here who feel a desperate need to bash Apple products because of their own frustrations towards their popularity.

The Zen Vision: M is an incredible player, better than the iPod Video (Cnet did a whole coverstory on that, and they proved their point)

But that doesn't mean you have to completely dismiss the iPod as a bad MP3 player. Don't be an ass.

I just got the ZVM a week ago, and its interface is hands down the best I've used. I've been on vacation so I've spent plenty of time with it while traveling. It was only $235 at buy.com, which is an absolutely amazing value. I only wish creative would offer a wireless remote.

I doubt people are saying that the Ipod is bad, just that there are better ones out there.

Not to mention my Ipod's battery life has died so badly that it IS now a brick. And it keeps freezing and turning on despite the hold button on. The Ipod IS known for giving people crap like that. Other players hardly do so.

It has good audio quality, doesn't mean that other mp3 players out there are worse than the Ipod, there are players that have BETTER sound quality than the Ipod. And from the way that most people have gave their detailed reasons why they like Zen better, I doubt they are a bunch of mindelss fanboys who just wanna bash the Apple just cause its popular. Whether you like it or not, Apple products have their own bad points, as well as other brands, though it seems that Apple has a lot of bad points on their Ipods moreso than other brands. People here HAVE done their research before pointing out the bad in the Ipod, and unless you did the same thing, than you really have no right to claim that they are fanboys who bashed Apple just cause its popular, they have other reasons to back it up.

They just simply concluded that the only reason people choose to buy the more expensive Apple player over other brands that are cheaper and have better audio quality is because of the heavy advertising, and causing it to be popular and hip. I think we all know that alot of things in the world are overated, and that the Ipod may be one of them. They have shown their research and prove that they have valid reasons to believe this.

Maybe someone should make a comparisoon list, list out all good points and bad points about these brands and see how they compare. After all, all products have their bad points, let see how it all adds up in the end.

Personally, people should actually research the stuff they buy before they buy it, just cause Apple is more well known doesn't make it nessacy better. I paid about $400 ish dollars for my Ipod in Hong Kong, and now its just a paperweight cause of crappy battery life and function.

Doesn't having all this extra stuff sorta defeat the purpose of being a Portable music player.

No, it's still portable. The amp is barely bigger than the iPod itself (it actually weighs less), and I can fit both of them in my pocket. The IEMs themselves are very diminutive as well, easily shoved in a pocket.

PiccoloNamek the solution to your multi-disk question is quite simple. Put the disk number in the album name. I know you said you use Rockbox, but I figured I'd post the solution anyway.

As for the Vision versus Ipod arguement, from what I remember reading when looking at comparison lists the vision was indeed better. The only reason I went with an Ipod is because I was going on a series of vacations, wanted a portable music player before going and it had to be 60GB. Therefore I picked up the iPod.

I'm not an Apple nut, nor do I have some unjustified loyalty to my portable music player, but I'd like to chime in with a few things.

PiccoloNamek if this were 2 years ago I'd totally agree with you on filetree browsing, but now after perfectly tagging enough of my MP3's I have to say that Filetree browsing = tagging. I already offered a solution to the multidisk problem, and I'm sure you'd agree that if you did genre tag all of your MP3s one would have no real advatage to one over the other.

On iTunes. I don't like the idea of needing a mediator between me and my DAP. Again before getting the iPod having to do this really pissed me off, but there are advantages to having the two integrated.

Firstly the iPod/iTunes keeps track of how many times I've played certain songs. While I always have my 'go to' tracks I like to make sure I take advantage of all the songs it holds. What I can do is sort by playcount and make a playlist of unplayed songs.

Same thing goes for song ratings. I can easily make a list of all of my "5 star" tracks.

Just today I was able to get rid of a load of dead air from those annoyingly short skits/interludes from my player. Because I can sort by time I just looked at all the tracks that were less than 1:00 and kept the few that I knew were music and killed off the rest. Again, this is something that I would not be able to do with a simple drag and drop interface.

Initially, I did add the disc number to the Album name. So when I clicked on "Albums" I would see something like:

Cardcaptor Sakura Complete Vocal Collection Disc 1
Cardcaptor Sakura Complete Vocal Collection Disc 2
Cardcaptor Sakura Complete Vocal Collection Disc 3
Cardcaptor Sakura Complete Vocal Collection Disc 4

But when I did this for multiple albums, it started making the list a lot longer than I really wanted it to be. What I wanted was a sub-directory under "Cardaptor Sakura Complete Vocal Collection" that just had "Disc 1, Disc 2, etc.

Now I have that.

I have to amend my last post, I just realized you can do all of that with a drag and drop interface. Using Winamp I could just create a library of the MP3s on the device.

iTunes = Lose.

Did you miss all of Storm Petrel's posts or something?

I'm sure if another player comes along with even better audio quality and longer battery life and cheaper, he would switch from Zen to that.

He has valid reasons for using Zen despite his views on Ipod's popularity, and one has to wonder why most people will choose an Ipod, which is more expensive, when there's a much cheaper player with better sound quality and most important, longer battery life? His reasons for getting Zen makes sense, and his views on Ipod's popularity is his own opinion. ( and they are true to some extent, whether people wanna admit it or not) That doesn't make him into a fanboy that just bashes Apple with no valid reason. If both players equal in price and sound quality, and he bashes Apple, then he's probably just bashing it cause its popular. But this is not the case. He's only a crazed fanboy if he bashes it for no valid reason. He has done his research, so his views are not unreasonable and he has backup to what he says.

Non-fanboys give informed researched opinions, fanboys do not.

Dunno about the rest of you, but I rather buy a cheaper player that doesn't freeze on me, has longer battery life and audio quality. But hey, maybe that's just me.

I'm sure he actually works for creative.

While we're at it, anyone tried the Iriver E10? I'm thinking about getting it (6gb/32hrs battery/18mW). My current 1gb isn't sufficient anymore, but I'm also very concerned about sound quality (iPod out of the picture). I heard Irivers usually sound better than Creatives?

RABicle, your stubburness has yet to cease to amaze me, and no I don't work for anyone, I'm a full time university student.

I will ban you from this thread and consequently from the boards for like I dunno a day or two if you do not quit this nonsensical trolling. I already warned you about this in your journal that I'd do this if you continued this bullshit in this thread.

Now let's all play nicely please.

More information on this new Iriver would be cool. I don't know much about that line of product and it would be nice to have some information on how they stack up to Creative and Apple's players. =)

I seem to think that there is a bit of a double standard here. It seems every one thinks that iPods break or are poorly made compared to Creative players. This has not been my experience...

I have/had a creative jukebox 3 that had issues with the headphone plug (which i had to VERY carefully re-solder), the hard drive died and I had to replace it. My brothers Creative Zen Xtra that he just bought is already having problems with the headphone jack and that is less than 8 months old. I used my player alot, but I did take good care of it. My bro is so careful with his stuff it makes me sick how he babies it.

My point here is not to say that iPods break less, or that creative makes shit... My point is that these portables break. It's just what they do. Saying that "my **** busted so all ***** are poorly made" is quite frankly, ignorant. Build quality is pretty important to Apple as a company and usually they are highly praised for reliablity. The same is true of Creative, their products tend to have high quality because of good quality control.

I think discussions would be better suited to see which player is better in features and usability over build quality. These dilusions that "all *** break" are ridiculous. If you get a lemon, its a lemon. If you don't take care of it, you got what you deserve. If it only lasts a couple of years, well, you got your time out of it. IT'S A PORTABLE. THEY DONT LAST FOREVER.

Agreed. I'm sure if you looked at actual percentage statistics for both companies, their products would probably be roughly the same in terms of quality. Both Apple and Creative make quality products. Companies that make quality products also have products that fail, for whatever reason. As I've said before, the only reason you hear so many more (net) complaints about iPods is because Apple is outselling Creative many, many times over. With way more players out there, that means there will be more players breaking. That doesn't mean that Apple's players are less reliable in terms of the odds, it just means there are a fuckton more of them out there.

But other times, you simply have products that have an almost ubiquitous problem. Mainly, iPod's with short batteries and Zen Touch Micro's with faulty headphone jacks.

Touch never had a faulty headphone jack, Micro did have it but it was fixed by Creative a long time ago.

Which is exactly what I said. But that doesn't change anything for those whose 1-year warranty ran out and still have a faulty headphone jack for their Micro.