A person who breaks into your home while you're there isn't after your stuff. If that's what he was after, he'd scope out your house and wait until you left, then break in.

I think that any rational person can safely assume that if a person invades your home while you're obviously at home, they're there to do harm to the people inside, not to steal your DVD player.

Some people are both desperate and stupid. You'd be surprised what these conditions, especially when combined, can make a person do.

Harmonica's a good example actually.
What I meant to say is that he's right! And some people are just plain stupid.

Gumby, I'm an Orygun resident as well... I live in Beaverton...

Illegal wasn't the right way to word it... The problem is that if I get caught with my handgun on college grounds, I get exspelled(spelling?). It's not really a "legal" issue, but an issue with school policy...

Reading this thread is alot of fun, because it's easy to tell who has real world gun experiance, and who learned everything they know from movies and counter-strike...

Also, I forgot to mention what guns I want in my last post... I have a pretty long list:

M1 Carbine in .30 M1 Carbine
TT33 Tokarev in 7.62X25
Colt M1911 in .38 Super
Remington 870 in 12ga
Krag in .30-40 Krag
Ruger M77 in .280 Remington
Another Makarov, I'd convert it to .32 NAA
Another Winchester Model 94, this time in .444 Marlin

There are more, but these are the ones I'm most interested in at the moment...

Edited to add:

Almost forgot the pics! First one is a pic of my 2 carry pistols, Beretta .25 on the left, Makarov 9X18 on right:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...6/IMG_0063.jpg

Second one is me with my beat-up Winchester, taken durring a hunting trip about 2 years ago:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...6/IM001624.jpg

I live in Canada, a sane and sensible country where not just any idiot can arm himself for any old reason.

You forgot to add the options "Nothing" and "Firearms are illegal/uncommon in my country". Oops. So I won't vote for now. Oh, it'd be nice to add "Other weapon (specify)" as an option too.

Myself, I have a longbow. It's a Martin "Stick" which draws 40# @ 28". If I'm not mistaken, that's just barely legal for deer hunting (37#, I think... ?).

I'd love to collect bows, if only I had the money. I'd like to have at least one of each of the following styles:

• Standard recurve (like a Martin X200)
• Olympic-style takedown
• English longbow
• Native American flatbow
• Middle-eastern recurve
• Mongolian recurve
• Crossbow
• Repeating crossbow
• Ballista :asthanos:

And just for sh*ts and giggles, one of these days I'd like to make an atlatl with a friend of mine who does a lot of bowcrafting and fletching and has made one himself.

From the Wikipedia article on the atlatl:

"Primitive" weapons are no joke. You know, firearms weren't created and used in the beginning because they were any better than longbows/crossbows in the first place. It's only because they require much less training to use. I'd dare say that in the right hands, an English longbow is more deadly than any firearm made up until the 19th century, keeping in mind that firearms were invented around the 15th century!!!

Gumby, I just read that you'd take a Berretta over a Glock... are you insane? They are pieces of metal and plastic glued together with a wholesome helping of feces... No really... they blow ass.

Glocks are pertiful. Our police here use .40 Glocks, ever since their Berrettas were discovered to be... less than reliable when in need.

And you, sir, wouldn't know sh*t if it came out of your anus sideways.

Glocks are even crappier than berettas. Not that I would ever buy a Beretta anyway. They're ladies' guns!

Gimme something that takes a standard .223 round. Doesn't seem all that intimidating until you see what a good .223 pistol can do.

People with drug addictions will do pretty much anything to get money/drugs, rational or often time not. Also, how do YOU know what a person that is just after your stuff would do? Have you done his before?

Oh shit. Busted. Yes, I'm a raging serial rapist.


Also...
Which is precisely why we have a gun in our home.

Yup arrow, you're right, I wouldn't.

I didn't spend 4 years of my life shooting guns for a living.

I surrender my soul to you.

Last I checked you can't sell people or bodies at the pawn shop, why would a drug addict want to kill someone?

You said it yourself - "People with drug addictions will do pretty much anything to get money/drugs, rational or often time not."

How can you be sure that a person strung out on drugs is going to have the mental capacity to know when they've gone too far? I highly doubt that a person flying on PCP is going to bust in my door and then politely say, "Excuse me, ma'am. Would you be so kind as to direct me to your valuables? I'll just relieve you of a few and then I'll be out of your hair." Also, I have children to protect, and as I said before, I live out in the middle of the woods by myself (i.e. no husband at home). I'm not about to trust anything to chance.

Ah, kids these days and their ideals. You're cracking me up, keener. Your arguments have been proven wrong time after time in this thread, yet you won't give up.

Tell ya what...how about YOU forego having a gun in YOUR house and those of us who wish to take advantage of our consitutional rights can do so, hm?

Glocks are grabage in my opinion. I'd take a Colt 1911 over either Glock or Berretta any day of the week.

Umm I don't know about you but a .223 pistol is horribly undepowered for personal defense... If recoil is a problem there are better pistols than something that isn't even 6mm.

AliceNWondrland: Don't worry about keener, he seems to think that we can all just let anyone do what they want once they break into our homes and that the big bad man is really a nice person and won't doing any harm to the people who are inside.

You do realize that by having a CHL you don't have to tell anyone that you are armed right? Not even police have any more right to know if you are packing. They may say otherwise but I suggest that you read that link I put up for OFF. There is a lot of good information. BTW I'm down in the capitol ;), I didn't realize there were any other people here who lived that close to me.

HAHAHA how many people have you ever seen out in the middle of the woods high on PCP? If that number is above 0 I'm going to be shocked. Also, why would someone break into your home if they were already high on a drug? I think it would be when they've come down and are in a more sober state is when they would realized they have no money and that they 'need' to steal. If some guy high on some drug did break down your door and makes you think he wouldn't just shoot you and your kids before you even had a chance to get your gun. Being the loving mom that I'm sure you are, it's doubtful that you walk around with your loaded gun with you 24/7. amirite?

What arguments have I made that have been proven wrong in this thread? The fact that you people live in areas where you THINK you need a gun to protect yourself, is your choice, and I've even said having a gun is fine. Like I said before, I just don't think they are as necessary as you think.


EDIT - Here's a question for all you people that seem to think guns are needed for the protection of you and your family. How many of you have used your gun in self defense on your own property?

Baseball bats are much cheaper and just as intimidating.

Double Post:
What do you intend to defend yourself from? A gorilla? You don't know what you're talking about. The diameter of the round isn't all that matters. Hell, look at the .357 Magnum. It's "not quite 9mm" but it'll take down a rhino. The standard .223 is pretty well conceived. Little round, big kick.

A 90lb meth-head is a "big bad man"??? What are you, in the lollipop guild?

You're probably right. Most people will never actually NEED a gun. But having one is still a good idea. Why? Take car insuracne for example... you probably won't wreck your car, but you have insurance anyway. You might go your whole life without ever needing a gun or insurance, but that doesn't mean having them is a bad idea... It's about being prepared to deal with a bad situation. It's better to not need it and have it, than to not have it and need it...

Moving on...

.223 Handgun? They exist, but are pretty rare. The .223 is a rifle round after all...

True, there are 4 factors the determine how "powerful" a round is:

#1: Velocity
#2: Weight
#3: Diameter
#4: Shape/Design (FMJ vs JHP for example)

Do you? Have you any real shooting experiance? I thought you were a bow expert, not a gun expert...

I do NOT recomend .357 for Rhino hunting. I wouldn't use a .357 to hunt anything bigger than deer, and even then it's not a great deer round.

Also, .357 is actually a larger diameter than 9mm by 0.002 of an inch (0.357 vs 0.355)

Ever shoot a .223? They don't kick much. At least I don't think so anyway, recoil is a realative thing. I've shot real kickers like .338 Win Mag, so .223 doesn't seem like much to me...

You're kidding, right? If I had my choice to fight someone armed with a bat, or someone armed with a gun, I'd fight the guy with the bat. I'm sure you'd rather fight the guy with the bat too...

Lastly, on the Glock vs Beretta issue, I prefer Berettas. But it's really a matter of individual preferance. I don't like "plastic" guns, and even if I did I wouldn't like glocks because they're too "fat". I like single-stack pistols because they're thinner... If I were to get a "plastic" gun, it would probably be a Khar...

Here in the lovely state of Washington it is illegal to drive without car insurance, that's why I have it. Having a gun is fine, I personally never said it was a bad idea, but I don't want one. And until it's state law to get one I see no reason for me to have one.

www.fark.com FTW BITCHES!

I got an answer for this one: my father. When I was 6 months old.

Damn son, I just keep shootin ftw left and right. Shit son, I'm not like Mike, I AM Mike.

Care to elaborate either of these two statements, because your link means nothing to me, and I'd like to here about this situation in which your dad use his gun in self defence by a guy who was trying to steal his belongings.

What, you think someone's just going to want to shoot you for the fun of it, but give you ample enough warning for you to get your own gun out? Please.

Guns are used by criminals for threat and insurance. If you cooperate when you're being robbed or whatever, you won't get shot. I'd rather be robbed of $100, than pay $200 for a handgun and risk getting shot.

I couldn't resist getting involved in the original discussion with some lamer who thought Glocks are good.

Sorry, I meant .357 Magnum.

I wouldn't know. I always thought .45=9mm.

Nope.

But I have heard a story from a friend who was in the military and someone in his squad tried out a .223 submachinegun. Like you, she didn't expect much kickback, but her arm actually got windmilled around almost backwards by the kickback, and her squad leader nearly caught a bullet in the head - got a real nice scrape across the side of his helmet. He beat her unconscious and she was RTU'ed that same day.

Yeah, and the bat costs pennies whereas the gun costs $$$ and requires a permit, etc. And when your kids are sleeping in the next room over, believe me the bat is the better option.

My point is, I'd rather defend my house with a bat or kitchen knife than barehanded. A gun isn't a viable option in a sane country.

It takes me about 3 seconds to get to a loaded gun, LOL...

NOT TRUE. Often times the criminal will kill you anyway, so as not to leave any witnesses...

My point is, how do you know that they arn't good if you've never actually tried using one? I don't like Glocks either, but I still think that they are "decent" pistols. And yes, I have actually shot them before...

Thats what I'm talking about... just because a round has the word "Magnum" in it, don't go thinking its super powerful or something. One great example of this is .22 Magnum. Yes, it's a "Magnum", but it's still pretty weak compared to most non-magnum rounds...

Nope... 9mm = .355 caliber, and just for comparison, 10mm = .40 caliber

Full auto is a little different, you get a constant kick on full auto, thats probably what got her... normally .223 has a very mild recoil...

One word for you: Shotgun.

Shot pellets (birdshot anyway) is unlikely to go thru walls, therefore it's the ideal gun for home protection. I can't argue your point about the bat being cheaper, but you can find decent guns at prices that won't bankrupt you...

Why not? I think the gun is actually the smarter way to go...

And what about old people for example? A 70 year old isn't going to be able to protect themself with a bat, a gun really is the only option they have. Same goes for people with disabilitys...

You're hardcore! :edgarrock:

God this is what I missed about this forum... All these people who think that everything can be solved peacefully or with as little force/violence as possible.

I invite all of yall that fall into this category to read Starship Troopers (nothing like the movie and it's only about 200 pages... I read it in about 4-5 hours).

Wrong. Criminals don't want to get caught, but they REALLY don't want to get caught for something big. It goes without saying that it's much, much worse to get caught on murder than is for theft. But that's okay. Your solution to every situation is to carry a gun. You're no psych major.

Because I've heard stories over the last fifteen years. And because I've played Counterstrike, for what little that's worth. :tpg:

A .357 magnum will split a car's engine block. That's what it was conceived for in the first place, actually...

True. And that's where you get into the realm of "special consideration" and not "hey everybody should own a gun".