I've already answered this question.

So... it's an obligation in the same sense that I'm obliged to pay back my loan shark if I don't want my legs broken. If I actually got to choose not to pay my taxes and incur consequences, you might've had me there.

Well no. Governments also have to try and keep people from emigrating and reducing the tax pool.

A resident.

Edit: Also consider this: The bridge was payed for with Federal money, yet it's the state's responsibility to maintain it. States have to pay to maintain highways, while the Fed fronts the cash for new construction. Now that the bridge has collapsed, it hasn't cost the state anything to rebuild it, since the Federal Government has given them 250,000,000 to build a new one. Doesn't that reflect a conflict of interest?

http://www.myfonts.com/images/family...d-standard.jpg

In that the government doesn't inflict physical damage on you not paying taxes in return for the services you receive, yes.

So the government is one homogenous entity that only concerns itself with retention?

If I didn't know better, I'd say you were accusing the state of Minnesota of conspiracy and murder.

As if that isn't done every single day in this country. Everything we do has some loss or risk associated to it and we do it. What's the single biggest way people die accidentally? That's right, car accidents. If we disallowed driving, you would nullify the fatality rate. There is an accepted loss of life when we have laws that allow driving. You used gasoline recently, I'm sure. Releasing harmful carcinogens into the air? No doubt, cancer caused by air quality causes loss of life.

What you're angry about is the justified tragic loss. If it takes a long time or if it's common, just in small quantities, you're fine with it -- we're all fine with it. It's not politically correct to say that the Minneapolis bridge collapse was unavoidable, and perhaps that exact instance was, but to claim that you can avoid all instances of it by throwing any amount of money at it in any single way, whether the feds or your ridiculous scheme, is completely ignorant.

I'd probably rather have my legs broken than face a prison sentance, though.

No, each individual government is concerned with intention. Governments have tendencies in the same way that people do, and they're only interested in serving the people insofar as the people demand service. Since we've got a horrid incumbency rating, I think you can see why this is a problem.

You're quite astute. I'm not accusing them of conspiracy and murder, I'm accusing them of negligence.

Mikey: The problem with the risks involved is that those risks are incurred individually via consent. It is not my responsibility to maintain roads and bridges, it is the state's. If the state does not live up to its responsibilities, then it has shirked its duties and endangered those it is meant to serve.

Putting carcinogens in the air is an unavoidable risk. An unsound bridge is not.

How is putting carcinogens into the air unavoidable? Make a law that people can't burn gas anymore. Make a law that people can't drive cars anymore. That's no different then spending inordinate amounts of money to fix a problem that, in 17 years of known problems, counts for under 20 deaths.

The funny thing is that you think that being T-boned in the middle of a busy intersection is consentual, but driving over a bridge isn't.

How is making a law for preventing death any different than putting money in a budget to prevent death? Further, the ways I've given you are responsible for a hell of a lot more deaths than this bridge falling down. If your whole reason for doing this was because a few people died, then you're going to have to do a hell of a lot better than spending billions and billions of dollars to fix a few bridges.

There is not enough money in the world, tax or otherwise, to prevent all deaths due to infrastructure from happening. It is impossible. So, if a few people die on a bridge every couple decades, I view that certainly as acceptable. Chaos theory, laws of physics, reliability engineering and all.

And I'd rather you didn't drive on roads, educated by the school system, and have the protection of police, military and fire department that my hard-earned and gladly given tax dollars all paid for. But we can't all get what we want!

is the government of the United States an individual government? That there are not internal agencies and governments on the state and local scale that all compete with each other for the small pool of tax dollars that are there?

god yohttp://www.abouttheimage.com/images/...mages_fire.jpg

I ain't seeing the conflict of interest then.

I would probably put the minnesota bridge at its known deficient state and your carcinogens at about the same level of risk.

You're right. Spending several million to repair or replace a bridge would be just like setting us back to to the stone age, before the discovery of fire.

By driving a car, I am presenting a risk to other motorists and pedestrians. I can alleviate that risk by driving responsibility. The risk presented by a defective bridge is not alleviated by not repairing it.

No, there is not enough money to prevent all infrastructure failure, because oftentimes it is unexpected or unforseen. It's not like, oh, say, being declared unstable for 17 goddamn years.

But no. I'm the asshole because I think we should fix existing problems before maybe creating new ones.

It's pretty obvious you have no interest in what I have actually said.

Your liberalism is the slop cook in Oliver Twist's orphanage.

Do you believe drunk driving presents an elevated risk?

You are telling me that governments don't compete because they have unlimited wealth (but doesn't eliminate all taxes with all this unlimited wealth and defecit spending that they do). AND, that we should build one Corporation that is unelected and without oversight in order to take over our infrastructure - which, of course, they are suited for because corporations are competitive, even if it's the only game in town. No, all this is facinating, but my ethics preclude me from taking the words of a traitor seriously.

http://www.therallyshack.co.uk/image...hirt_small.jpg

I didn't say it would be just like it. But you told me I'm not allowed to justify fatalities amd you just did. So which is it? Are we just not allowed to justify fatalities that pose a direct threat to you? It's OK to drive cars, we need them!, even if tens of thousands of people die every year but it's definitely not OK to have a faulty bridge!, twenty people die every couple decades on those!

My point is that Congress (and you) are more than willing to open the checkbook -- DAMN THE COSTS! -- when an extremely rare and very vivid tragedy happens, but the every day shit you (and Congress) just don't care about. Not enough to do anything about it, certainly less than you'd do about the bridges.

You are perfectly fine with acceptable deaths, thousands of them, as long as it doesn't set us back in to the stone age (which is apparently when cars were invented). But if it doesn't set you back at all, we should open the floodgates to the budget to save even one life!

Making a law to fix bridges saves almost no lives and costs an extremely high amount of money to save the very few people who would die from accidents.

If a bridge survives for 17 years after being declared unstable, how reliable is that report? Not to mention all the other bridges that were surely declared the same thing but haven't fallen down yet.

Brady/Mikey, quit arguing about this shit. If you had a time machine, any rational person would've spent the money to repair that bridge. In addition to saving lives (and I think economists estimated people are willing to spend ~$1mill/American life to protect), repairing the bridge would be cheaper than replacing it will be. Plus, there's the opportunity cost from having the bridge out: people spending longer commuting, things delayed, etc. etc.

Don't chase safety pies in the sky, point taken. But Brady's not even asking for any more effort looking for problems! You spend on the best practicable technology, and make the effort to meet your own maintenance and safety standards and generally keep an eye out.

^5

As a note, I was reading a USA Today the other week and there was a letter sent in by some civil engineering PhD at a university that talked about how the safety of bridges are rated. Apparently there's a whole slew of actual safety factors, then it's modified by the cost of repair, cost of detours, difficulty of detours, loss to business during detours, how critical the piece of infrastructure is, and how reliable the report actually is.

Also, a few years ago they had done a study on how well bridge inspectors could find various defects in bridges. Apparently even the experienced ones could only do around 5% detection of propagating cracks through the concrete. What they said was really needed was new methods of trying to detect faults and newer field tests methods that would find cracks that were typically missed by inspectors.

You've never payed any goddamn attention. Governments do not have unlimited wealth, they just don't have to work for their revenue, they do not create. Because governments do not create, there is no incentive for them to maintain assets, because the loss is made up by levying a tax. It does not mean that the government has unlimited resources it means that the heads of government do not think that far ahead.

We've already got passed that.

Appointed by shareholders (everybody).

It's overseen by the shareholders who actually use the roads.

Stop trolling this thread.


As soon as man invented fire we were polluting the air with toxins. Man accepted fire because it kept him warm and extended his lifespan despite the potential harm of the smoke.

Cars provide the same benefit, while a bridge does not. Bridges present an avoidable risk because they are a predictable liability, whereas the damage caused by car exhaust is unpredictable.

If the report states that a bridge is unstable, and it eventually collapses, then the report is reliable. It doesn't matter how long it took the bridge to collapse, it did so by virtue of its being unstable. Following your logic, it's not worth repairing any bridges because there's no point in avoiding the risk.

Also, please don't be a faggot. The viaduct collapse killed 41 people, this recent collapse killed maybe more than 20. This isn't about saving one life.

But the bridge obviously wasn't a predictable liability! It remained standing 17 years after they said it was unstable! Reread RR's post.

I didn't say it wasn't worth repairing any bridges, I never said that. I also never said it wasn't worth trying to avoid risk. You have to find the trade-off between fixing bridges and the cost of fixing bridges. You've been sitting here telling me that there is NO trade off, that fixing bridges always comes first no matter what!

Let's say for the sake of argument bridges are 99% reliable. To make it 99.9% reliable, it will take X dollars. Every 9 you add on after that grows the cost exponentially.

(Or if they are 50%, go to 75%, then 85%, then 90%, etc. etc.)

We could spend $50 trillion dollars and make it so the bridges are 99.9999999999% safe, probably. Do you consider that worth it? Since we obviously aren't allowed to justify the loss of life, we should spend an infinite amount of money on fixing the infrastructure.

I let it go the first time since everyone's entitled to a typo, but packrat asked me to tell you it's spelt 'paid'. Just passing the word along brah.

http://www.thefranchisemagazine.net/...les/1-1470.gif

One would say that you are not a good judge of predictable liabilities!

Do I have to explain this to you again? Being drunk does not make one a danger. Driving a car does. Whether one is drunk or not can elevate the risk but you are not a danger by virtue of being drunk.

Stop trolling this thread or I will ban you from it.

Weren't the retrofits designed to help the bridge withstand the earthquakes, or did I misread something?

Alright, you got me there.

Well we're clearly going to have to make these kind of value judgements, and defective bridges which carry the greatest amount of traffic will receive priority.

Some bridges simply cannot be fixed, and in those cases one has to wait until a proper time at which they can be fixed.

Claiming that it would take an infinite amount of money, however, is a bit shortsighted. Do we even have any figures yet concerning how much it would cost to fix unstable bridges?

You're right that it was wrong for me to make the blanket statement that maintaining infrastructure should take priority over everything else, I wasn't really thinking. Though I still believe that maintenance of infrastructure should be government's number one priority and that the necessary funds should always be appropriated towards it before wasting our money on subsidies and various other claptrap.

You will do no such thing. She's not trolling because you disagree.

Additional Spam:
But that's the thing. 100% reliability is impossible, which means it would take an infinite amount of money to reach it.

So, define "fix". Works for 10 more years? 50 more years? Works forever?

How about it's reliability? 80% stable for 10 years? 70% stable for 50 years?

You have to find where your acceptable loss point is. My point is that whatever it is that got us to here isn't too bad.

you really want me to hold your hand here?

You brought up the stadium and the tax increase several times in connection to misspending by the homogenized government (I will get to this in a moment). Given that no one who controls this sort of thing knew that the bridge was in danger of imminent collapse, it is doubtful that this tax increase would instead have paid for a repair of the bridge even if that was within the realm of possibility; even still, it would not have saved the bridge. You were being intellectually dishonest by bringing it up.

It is often cheaper and more economical to replace infractructure (bridges, roads etc) than to repair them. In fact, with the viaduct that fell during the earthquake, they had to rethink the entire design of viaducts after that disaster. Repairing it and retrofitting it would have been an expensive bandaid. You are wrong in this account.

Also, you feel that repair of the entire road system should come before new projects. I'm sure that you practice this philosophy in your personal life, making sure your credit card bills are paid before you go to to see The Bourne Ultimatum, but personal finance doesn't scale up to match the finances of an entire country. Frequently new road works are more necessary than filling potholes in your neighbourhood. You show a distressing lack of scale in thought.

You suggest a corporation will take the politics out of infrastructure. This is ridiculous but I will get to it in a moment. You tell me that we have "already gotten over" the one company business, but a quick scan of the thread shows you haven't really addressed it. So you are lying again.

Even still, due to the nature of the business, infrastructure companies really couldn't compete with each other, since everyone needs efficient roads that get them where they want to go. You have several times said that the very nature of corporations is that they compete, and that they produce the most effective use of funds due to this competition, but this competition within the infrastructure business couldn't exist. You are wrong on this account.

you suggest that anonymous 'shareholders' who have done nothing to earn their place in a corporation would have more interest in the goings-on of that corporation than the voters who have done nothing except gain citizenship to earn that right to vote. This shows a willfull ignorance of the behavior of people.

You say that 'politics' would be taken out of the equasion when we move to a corporate-based system, but then admit that the 'shareholders' would elect board members. that sounds like politics to any thinking man, and shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

You say that the corporation would compete with itself because no one would use shitty roads. This is obviously false. The corporation would still exact tolls, of the same price as would be for the road when it was new and perfect, for roads that were in serious disrepair. There is no incentive for the corporation to improve the road until it is undriveable. You are wrong.

You accuse sports teams of 'extortion' for threatning to leave if they don't get a new ballpark. But yet, this is free market bargaining. If a sports team is too prima-donna, no city will want them. let the market sort it out. You are betraying your free market ideals because it's crazy moon-man logic. You believe in crazy moon-man logic.

You hold the government responsible for not forseeing the bridge collapse. "17years known deficient, how dare they!" you say. RR already explained how human engineers can only predict 5% of cracks in bridges, but nevermind that. How dare you claim 20/20 hindsight on something that happened a week ago; not only is this a liberal trait, but most people have the decency to put a few months between themselves and the event before claiming they "knew it all along." The fact is, it was declared deficient 17 years ago, but there was a survey of the bridge not a few years ago and they saw nothing outstanding. Your company would not do a better job, since your company would be using the same people and techniques to judge bridges as the government does, and would not throw money on bridges unless it had to. You hold a naive, idealized view of corporations and it has made you wrong yet again.

You tell Styphon that people don't have to drive on roads, that they can use alternate forms of transportation. Most of those forms of transportation require the use of roads. Once again you are proven mistaken, and you dropped the point so rapidly I dare say you knew it.

You say being drunk doesn't present an elevated risk in and of itself (which is wrong: aside from the health risks of over drinking, you lose motor skills and impair your judgement which can lead to picking fights with bad dudes which is risky) while driving in and of itself is a risk; therefore, drunk driving is no additional risk. You play word games on the level of Gumby, who in the journals has been insisting that driving is a right and not a privilege. You should look in on that, that might be more up your alley.

You claim taxes are theft. This is incorrect.

You support the gold standard. This has nothing to do with the thread but jesus.

You support anarchy. This has everything to do with your thread. Jesus.

You give Mikey shit for rationalizing deaths when you do the very same. You care nothing for your fellow man but we already knew that, Oklahoma Sexy Patrol

You mock the concept of 'theft of liberty' in regards to breaking the law as theft (something that came out of your mouth and not mine), but then you say you would much rather suffer serious, debilitating bodily harm rather than suffer theft of freedom. you're the worst coward there is; you shit bricks when it's your turn to suffer, but you mock the fear of others who suffer the same.

You think that roads that are not bridges don't matter because they're not under the threat of falling down. You show a disturbing lack of imagination in that crumbling roads are still unsafe to drive. Will your corporation demonstrate the same lack of imagination?

You accuse my liberalism as being akin to the cook in Oliver Twist. Does this mean I don't feed starving poor children? That is nothing like bleeding heart liberalism. You don't know what a metaphor is.

You feel that paying tolls is consentual, but that driving on roads paid by your tax dollars (you already paid the tolls due to the virtue of being a tax payer) is non-consentual because you're not aware that accidents can happen. This is crazy moon-man logic again.

You suggest coyly that Minnesota was negligent (perhaps conspiring to do so?) and say that that is a conflict of interest. I asked you to elaborate but you never did. I can only assume you brought it up to, like I said before, accuse a state of conspiracy to murder in order to get sweet fundzzz.

You constantly whine about people not addressing the things you're discussing, but you dropped questions I have asked at least three times. You're a prima-donna with a short memory span.

You admit that the government produces services, but don't create. You also admit that companies that produce services create. You admit that both recieve revenue for their products. You have a difficult time with applying concepts in different contexts.

You have said many times that governments are non-competitive in any real meaningful sense of the word. I assume you're talking about federal governments, but the thing you haven't admitted at all is that the 'government' is not a homogenous entity. There are many different agencies within the federal government! There are state and local governments that jockey with each other for funds! There are many lobbyists all trying to get their cut!

Even though you say that the government has a steady income due to tax (laughable since taxes change all the time and affect different groups of varying wealth; additionally the government has different outgoing expenses that change from year to year, such as the Iraq war) this income is not infinite; even though the US government spends outside of its means frequently, it doesn't mean it hands blank checks to everyone with their hands out.

This is all stuff children know. The end result is that the government within the realm of itself is competing for funds for the road system as a whole, and that state and local governments within this sytem compete with each other for funds.

I asked you several times to no avail about this. I thought that you were trolling, at first, since this is your MO, but now I think you genuinely believe this shit, and you're just exaggerating for funs.

YOU ARE EDUCATED RETARDED.

http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg

you are a traitor

http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg

http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg
you have a fetish for the Man http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg

http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpghttp://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpghttp://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/blog.../Jackalope.jpg damn LIEburls http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg

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http://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpg go anarchy http://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpg :birthday: :birthday:

http://www.clarkson.edu/projects/the...n/HappyCat.jpghttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gifhttp://www.clarkson.edu/projects/the...n/HappyCat.jpghttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gif
http://www.clarkson.edu/projects/the...n/HappyCat.jpghttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gifhttp://www.clarkson.edu/projects/the...n/HappyCat.jpg

you think governments have unlimited funds

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/blog.../Jackalope.jpg damn LIEburls http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg

Ritalinal: you seen those 7chan shota pics?
Ritalinal: JOEY?
http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg
Col Jacen Solo: No. Don't look at shota.
Ritalinal: u should!
Ritalinal: its cool =D
Col Jacen Solo: meh. I fap on my own, porn helps, but I enjoy my own adventures...
Ritalinal: wanna see which one i'm looking at?
http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg
Ritalinal: HUH?
Col Jacen Solo: Not really Alex...
Ritalinal: it's one of zelda, and link =D

http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg

you have a fetish for the Man
http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg
http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg
http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg

http://www.newyorkarchitecture.info/...ilding-001.jpg non political http://www.newyorkarchitecture.info/...ilding-001.jpg non political http://www.newyorkarchitecture.info/...ilding-001.jpg non political http://www.newyorkarchitecture.info/...ilding-001.jpg non political non-profit corporation owned by the people

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/blog.../Jackalope.jpg damn LIEburls http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg

http://www.horsesass.org/wp-content/...dgettrend2.gif tHiS gRaPh sHoWs tHaT tAxEs aRe tHeFt (tolls everywhere aren't tho~) http://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gif


http://homepage.mac.com/durvivor/dop...cs/fbiseal.gifhttp://www.clarkson.edu/projects/the...n/HappyCat.jpghttp://homepage.mac.com/durvivor/dop...cs/fbiseal.gifhttp://www.clarkson.edu/projects/the...n/HappyCat.jpghttp://homepage.mac.com/durvivor/dop...cs/fbiseal.gif

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/blog.../Jackalope.jpg damn LIEburls http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg free rush http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg

[b]Now this is the story all about how
My life got flipped, turned upside down
And I’d like to take a minute just sit right there
I’ll tell you how I became the prince of a town called bel-air

GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE

http://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpg go anarchy http://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpghttp://home.austin.rr.com/rogerw/Anarchy.jpg :birthday: :birthday:http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpghttp://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg :birthday: :love:

GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE

Ritalinal: you seen those 7chan shota pics?
Ritalinal: JOEY?
Col Jacen Solo: No. Don't look at shota.
http://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gifhttp://www.clarkson.edu/projects/the...n/HappyCat.jpghttp://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gifhttp://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gifhttp://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gifhttp://www.clarkson.edu/projects/the...n/HappyCat.jpghttp://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gifhttp://www.clarkson.edu/projects/the...n/HappyCat.jpghttp://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gif

Ritalinal: u should!
http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg
Ritalinal: its cool =D
Col Jacen Solo: meh. I fap on my own, porn helps, but I enjoy my own adventures...
Ritalinal: wanna see which one i'm looking at?
Ritalinal: HUH?
Col Jacen Solo: Not really Alex...
Ritalinal: it's one of zelda, and link =D


GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE

http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg

In west philadelfia born and raised
On the playground where I spent most of my days
Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool
And all shooting some b-ball outside of the school
When a couple of guys said "we’re up in no good"
Started making trouble in my neighbourhood
I got in one little fight and my mom got scared
And said "you’re moving with your aunte and uncle in bel-air"

GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE


:rolleyes: :birthday: :rolleyes: :birthday:

(only the first three episodes of season one)

GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE


http://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gifhttp://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gifhttp://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gifhttp://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gifhttp://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gifhttp://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gif

GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE


I begged and pleaded with her the other day
But she packed my suitcase and sent me on my way
She gave me a kissin’ and she gave me my ticket
I put my walkman on and said I might aswell kick it

GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE

http://homepage.mac.com/durvivor/dop...cs/fbiseal.gif


http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg

First class, yo this is bad,
Drinking orange juice out of a champagne glass
Is this what the people of bel-air livin’ like,
Hmm this might be alright!
http://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gif


I whistled for a cab and when it came near the
Licensplate said "fresh" and had a dice in the mirror
If anything I could say that this cab was rare
But I thought now forget it, yo home to bel-air

http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpghttp://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gif


I pulled up to a house about seven or eight
And I yelled to the cabby "yo, home smell you later"
Looked at my kingdom I was finally there
To settle my throne as the prince of bel-air


http://www.angel-stardust.com/poems/...AngelPrayB.jpghttp://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~b_acosta01...aru_shakur.jpghttp://www.angel-stardust.com/poems/...AngelPrayB.jpghttp://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~b_acosta01...aru_shakur.jpghttp://www.angel-stardust.com/poems/...AngelPrayB.jpg

http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/blog.../Jackalope.jpg damn LIEburls http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg

Alright fagts. Listen up, I'm not doing this for my health, I have other things do to than to put up with anonymous, but as a back up, I decided I'd make use of myself. Wuori and I became 'Friends.' And I've learned he is far sicker than you can imagine. This kid is obessed with /b/, I have my own personal vendetta, and problems with Anon. This kid makes that look like issues on a playground, what the fuck did you do to this fucking psycho. I have never met someone to hateful towards /b/, I broke off with him, and pity the poor bastard a lot. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care how much you guys hate Shiahgo, or Humane Weapons. That's not my biggest issue, my issue is this fuck harassing me. Now. NEW INFORMATION REGARDING WUORI.

1. Wuori is a Runescaper. Account name Ritalina.

2. Wuori is a Gaiauser, Account name is unknown.
http://www.charitableirishsociety.or...CAN%20FLAG.gif

3. Wuori is so obessed with /b/, he is texting me at least 100 times a day with plans on revenage.

4. Wuori created an operation called 'Chanfire' planning on causing an inner chan war.



http://homepage.mac.com/durvivor/dop...cs/fbiseal.gif

http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gifhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gifhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gifhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...00McKinley.JPGhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gifhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gifhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gif

http://www.charitableirishsociety.or...CAN%20FLAG.gifhttp://www.charitableirishsociety.or...CAN%20FLAG.gif

http://www.angel-stardust.com/poems/...AngelPrayB.jpghttp://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~b_acosta01...aru_shakur.jpghttp://www.angel-stardust.com/poems/...AngelPrayB.jpghttp://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~b_acosta01...aru_shakur.jpghttp://www.angel-stardust.com/poems/...AngelPrayB.jpg

http://www.horsesass.org/wp-content/...dgettrend2.gif tHiS gRaPh sHoWs tHaT tAxEs aRe tHeFt (tolls everywhere aren't tho~)

you have a fetish for the Manhttp://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gif

http://homepage.mac.com/durvivor/dop...cs/fbiseal.gif

http://www.newyorkarchitecture.info/...ilding-001.jpg non political http://www.newyorkarchitecture.info/...ilding-001.jpg non political http://www.newyorkarchitecture.info/...ilding-001.jpg non political http://www.newyorkarchitecture.info/...ilding-001.jpg non political non-profit corporation owned by the people

Ritalinal: you seen those 7chan shota pics?
Ritalinal: JOEY?
Col Jacen Solo: No. Don't look at shota.
Ritalinal: u should!
Ritalinal: its cool =D
Col Jacen Solo: meh. I fap on my own, porn helps, but I enjoy my own adventures...
Ritalinal: wanna see which one i'm looking at?
Ritalinal: HUH?
http://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gif

Col Jacen Solo: Not really Alex...
Ritalinal: it's one of zelda, and link =D
http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/durvivor/dop...cs/fbiseal.gif
http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg
http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg
http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg


http://www.angel-stardust.com/poems/...AngelPrayB.jpghttp://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~b_acosta01...aru_shakur.jpghttp://www.angel-stardust.com/poems/...AngelPrayB.jpghttp://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~b_acosta01...aru_shakur.jpghttp://www.angel-stardust.com/poems/...AngelPrayB.jpg

Alright fagts. Listen up, I'm not doing this for my health, I have other things do to than to put up with anonymous, but as a back up, I decided I'd make use of myself. Wuori and I became 'Friends.' And I've learned he is far sicker than you can imagine. This kid is obessed with /b/, I have my own personal vendetta, and problems with Anon. This kid makes that look like issues on a playground, what the fuck did you do to this fucking psycho. I have never met someone to hateful towards /b/, I broke off with him, and pity the poor bastard a lot. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care how much you guys hate Shiahgo, or Humane Weapons. That's not my biggest issue, my issue is this fuck harassing me. Now. NEW INFORMATION REGARDING WUORI.
http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg
http://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg

1. Wuori is a Runescaper. Account name Ritalina.

http://www.charitableirishsociety.or...CAN%20FLAG.gif
http://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gif
http://www.charitableirishsociety.or...CAN%20FLAG.gif
http://gfw.condign.org/images/1/15/A...atERA_GRUN.gif
[img]
http://www.charitableirishsociety.org/images/AMERICAN%20FLAG.gif[/img]

2. Wuori is a Gaiauser, Account name is unknown.

3. Wuori is so obessed with /b/, he is texting me at least 100 times a day with plans on revenage.

4. Wuori created an operation called 'Chanfire' planning on causing an inner chan war.




shit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got realshit just got real hackers on steroids hackers on steroidshackers on steroidshackers on steroidshackers on steroidshackers on steroidshackers on steroids hackers on steroidshackers on steroidshackers on steroidshackers on steroids hackers on steroidshackers on steroids

http://www.charitableirishsociety.or...CAN%20FLAG.gif

[b]Now this is the story all about how
My life got flipped, turned upside down
And I’d like to take a minute just sit right there
I’ll tell you how I became the prince of a town called bel-air

http://www.horsesass.org/wp-content/...dgettrend2.gif tHiS gRaPh sHoWs tHaT tAxEs aRe tHeFt (tolls everywhere aren't tho~)

In west philadelfia born and raised
On the playground where I spent most of my days
Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool
And all shooting some b-ball outside of the school
When a couple of guys said "we’re up in no good"
Started making trouble in my neighbourhood
I got in one little fight and my mom got scared
And said "you’re moving with your aunte and uncle in bel-air"

(only the first three episodes of season one)

http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg how DARE the gub'mint take my money http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg

I begged and pleaded with her the other day
But she packed my suitcase and sent me on my way
She gave me a kissin’ and she gave me my ticket
I put my walkman on and said I might aswell kick it

http://www.charitableirishsociety.or...CAN%20FLAG.gifhttp://www.craftsbylucienne.com/imag...ican-Flags.jpg

First class, yo this is bad,
Drinking orange juice out of a champagne glass
Is this what the people of bel-air livin’ like,
Hmm this might be alright!

I whistled for a cab and when it came near the
Licensplate said "fresh" and had a dice in the mirror
If anything I could say that this cab was rare
But I thought now forget it, yo home to bel-air

http://www.horsesass.org/wp-content/...dgettrend2.gif tHiS gRaPh sHoWs tHaT tAxEs aRe tHeFt (tolls everywhere aren't tho~)

I pulled up to a house about seven or eight
And I yelled to the cabby "yo, home smell you later"
Looked at my kingdom I was finally there
To settle my throne as the prince of bel-air


GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE
GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE
GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE
GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE
GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE
GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE
GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE
GOVERNMENT TIES IS REALLY WHY THE GOVERNMENT LIES READ IT YOURSELF INSTEAD OF ASKING YOUR GOVERNMENT WHY BECAUSE THEN THE CAUSE OF DEATH WILL CAUSE THE PROPAGANDA TO DIE


http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg how DARE the gub'mint take my money http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/0/3/Our-Flag-e.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gifhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gifhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gifhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...00McKinley.JPGhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gifhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gifhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ce/carlton.gif

cocks

Owned to death.

Well now we're getting somewhere.

I nominate lurker's explosion of genius for PP Post of the year. Hell, GFF Post of the year.

Point taken.

The issue of the viaduct is not to demonstrate an issue that was avoidable (I know I misrepresented this so my mistake), it was supposed to represent a case where the government failed to act in regards to what was considered a reasonable danger. The benefit derived from the actual collapse isn't as important as the demonstration of government action. The government has no real interest in fixing or even seriously investigating the bridge by virtue of its divided attention. Unless alarms are raised or appropriate attention is called to the issue, government will be slow to act.

Whether the retrofits would have failed is still an uncertainty, the point is to illustrate that the government failed to act under means that were considered to be reasonable at the time.

Point taken.

I think there was some misunderstanding there, since I was talking about competition between transit, and that multiple corporations for modes of transit would cause the road corporation to compete for its use.

Point taken.

Point taken.

A private team demanding taxpayer money under the threat that they would leave is not free market bargaining, it is rentseeking. Free market bargaining involves the distribution of information, so that all parties determine price by virtue of supply and demand. Voters don't have to be aware of why a team needs new facilities, they only know that if the demands of the team isn't met they will move elsewhere. Regardless of how unreasonable the demand may be, the team owner can cow voters into accepting their demands under threat.

It is practically extortion.

Point taken.

Point taken.

I said that drunk driving elevates a risk, but that being drunk does not make oneself a danger to others. One can be drunk and not be a danger to others, it's once you put them behind of the wheel of a car that they present a real danger.

You're gonna have to do better than that.

And thank you for not harping on it again.

Don't knock it 'till you've tried it. ;)

It was wrong for me to give Mikey shit without going into detail. In general it's wrong of me to give Mikey shit.

There's no parallel between repairing bridges, and banning carcinogens, because while the latter would end deaths caused by carcinogens it would in effect lower life expectancies and make people die from causes before they could die from carcinogens. A collapsed bridge doesn't raise life expectancies.

This doesn't mean that Mikey is wrong in spirit, it means that I'm being a bitch and playing word games.

No better way to deal with fear than to make fun of it. My intent is not to mock others but to mock the state of the system.

Point taken.

The nature of the Oliver Twist cook is that he does feed starving children but not enough. When he's asked for a suitable amount of food, the reaction is to shout and issue a savage beating.

You are leaving me information starved. I cannot argue your points if all you're doing is yelling at me and spamming gold standard.

Where the Hell did you get that? Paying taxes lacks consent because the taxes are extracted regardless of whether you've agreed to have the funds taken by government. You can consent to pay a toll because otherwise you would not be using the road. You can't consent to pay a tax, because you'll be paying regardless of whether or not you have rendered use.

One doesn't have to conspire to murder in order to remain negligent. If the collapse of a bridge costs the state nothing, then it lacks incentive to keep the bridge sufficiently maintained. It's not because the state has conspired to get on the Federal dole, it's because the incentive isn't there to issue a priority.

Granted.

The point I was trying to make is that the government does not truly create, because the means of creation (tax dollars) is not rightfully possessed by the government. It's taxpayers who create the services that the government provides, because without those means there would be nothing. Since the government cannot rightfully claim the money as its own by virtue of the lack of trade, it has not truly created by virtue of its own labor.

Point taken.

I never said this.

I never claimed that they did. Governments will distribute funds according to their perceived need, and because there is a lack of revenue incentive for the maintenance of a bridge (revenue is extracted regardless of whether or not there is a bridge) and because of the lack of that incentive, maintenance loses priority.

I thought I had answered this, but I guess I misunderstood the question. I hope this answers it.

Honestly, thank you for actually explaining your viewpoint as opposed to issuing statements.