I have to admit, you know yourself well. If only you could decipher a point.

I'm not saying *I* know anything. I'm saying there are things you can't learn in a classroom. Do you understand that? Or maybe this argument stems from your relative lack of real social experience? I'm just trying to sort things out here.

You don't need to learn "from the streets". Again, it seems as if you either didn't actually go to college, or you were a shut in the whole time. I was able to bond with people during college that I would never meet under any other circumstances in this country. African-Americans were not only present, but any American was viewed as a bit mundane in light of my school's ethnic strata. I don't honestly know how I could have learned more except by actually being black and growing up in harlem or detroit. I sure as shit wouldn't learn anything that I've learned from real interaction with human beings in any classroom.

My critical theory class was talking about 3rd wave feminism the other day, and somehow we got on the topic of race. My professor said that the reason he couldn't believe in something like reverse racism was because there still is a very real differential between the traditional white male power elite and the black work force.

I dunno if I agree with that entirely, but Richards made it a racial issue to begin with, when he could have called them a variety of other, more accurate insults.

I think you know that, in the end, these two are intrinsically not the same. People don't call each other white trash when they have nothing else to fall back on.

The concept of ideology to begin with involves calling someone by their position within that ideology. If you call someone a nigger, then it says you've stopped thinking in terms of individuals, and are looking for class labels, the same way you might call someone poor. It's not just derrogatory. It's a way of saying to a person, "You are insignificant because of your position."

When all Richards had to say was "Nigger," he was essentially telling the audience that that's all he needed to say. And I don't think for a minute that's true.

dude, calm the fuck down. I didn't steal anything, I was intro'd to this site by a friend here, and just chose something at random. I'd have to be pretty bored to search through a forum just to steal someone else' av and sig

Black people buying cheap seats, talking shit and then playing victim? Jesus Christ, all you need is a welfare line and it's the very definition of nigger!

As a retort - you're correct in that I've never called a black man white trash. He is obviously NOT white, hence the word NIGGER.

They are very much the same thing, though I suppose racial class may make "white trash" a little less insulting than nigger.

I call people poor all the time. I also call people WTP all the time (White Trash Poor).

From a first person account, I can tell you that I'd much sooner call a black man a nigger than I would call him a bitch. Black men HATE that word and I can tell you they reacted way worse to being called that then the "N" word.

I call people poor though. Obviously, I may be an exception because I try to use every racial slur I can find - nigger, wetback, slant-eyes, zipperhead, Carl Winslow, paddy wagon - because its as empowering to use those words properly as it is to use words like apotheosis or dodecaphonicism. Obviously, talking about twelve tone and shouting PORCH MONKEY are not the same in the eyes of others - but they both show you know what you're talking about.

I think if you're getting called out on a stereotype class issue and you're getting offended, you don't have any right to leave your house. People judge people anyway, they may not say it but we're all guilty. Why do you think so many white women have an automatic aversion to blacks? (I can't say, but I've seen it way more than I can think of)

No. No no no. See, while Richards was probably wrong in SCREAMING that word, he was absolutely right in calling them nigger. If you were to do a farce about black people - how would you do it? Cheap black people with 6 kids, living on welfare and food stamps and driving a brand new Audi.

As an aside, after seeing the two gentleman who were called "nigger" on the news this morning, they actually were NOT very "niggerish". The one who talked more was very well spoken, even though I largely disagreed with his remarks about victimization. Both were well dressed and you can tell that it wasn't that someone gave them a collared shirt.

However, the idea that blacks are bitching about victimization from a JEW of all people is not lost on me. Outside of the Irish, is there any other culture in history that has been more shit upon than the Jews? Don't get me wrong - I am not attempting to play down slavery or what-have-you - but have we gotten to the point where two victimized races are going at it? Isn't this one of those things that you'd find at the ends of the universe or something?

That's the point, isn't it? If you're going to insult them, hard and fast without much quick wit to back you up, you might as well pick the one or two words that have the deepest cultural significance. That's the fastest way to put you back in control of most peoples' emotions. (Compare cheat slut for many women, faggot to most men.) Words are a game of power in these situations, and trying to ban a word in a misguided attempt to ban hate only gives the word a great deal of extra power.

Not that culturally enforced civility is such a bad thing. But applying it to a handful of random words, isn't exactly a useful way of going about it.

Because Deni certainly isn't known as one of the more offensive members of the board, who often throws around racial slurs for pure amusement. I mean, he certainly doesn't refer to his buddy encephalon as beaner, or kurado as his house boy. That would never happen. The problem with you, Rocketdog, is that at the heart of you, is a very simple little man. You're about black and white. Thus the entry on girls you date and your demand that they're musical.

Of course an educated person can brush aside a racial slur. By the by, walk up to a jewish professor and tell him you think he's a kike and he should burn in an oven. See how fucking funny he thinks you are. I can brush aside a racial slur. I'm white, I'm educated and I can make a point about how words shift constantly, how they don't intrinsically have meaning, but rather they take meaning from webs of understanding dictated by societal pressures.

But I'm not black. I've never had someone spit the word nigger at me in blatant anger. And you know what, when that person chooses a word they know is hateful, and use it in a hateful way? That can be a harsh thing to do. Now, I'm a big proponent of words being words and people needing to be less sensitive, but you know what? Your lack of understanding of any of the modern concepts or theories just proves that education IS needed in it. Not because nigger is the worst thing you can say, but because understanding why other people might think it is... ya, that's sort of important to the debate at hand.

Also, Minion and Rocketdog, I have three years worth of fieldwork behind me, along with years of research. I've dealt with this on the ground, I'm not talking from a textbook. When one of you has worked in the field, doing research on agency and language with different cultures, then you can talk to me about real world experience.

Also, Rocketdog, you are the last person to talk about this subject. We've seen before how your perspective works, and you've managed to talk yourself right out of any valid point. Especially considering neither Lurker, LeHah, or myself said the word nigger was as offensive as these two men are making it out to be. If you don't even understand the basic point, keep your arguments to yourself.

Also, Heckler, stealing as in having the same basic premise. I got tired of people asking me why I'd become retarded in my posting habits, and having to explain that you aren't me. Apparently a moderator did, too.

Frankly, I'd be pissed off too if I were them - for being caught acting like the racial stereotype. It's embarassing but all they were doing was acting like every idiot racist makes blacks out to be. "Lets sit in cheap seats and talk loudly amongst ourselves and heckle the white guy from that show."

Maybe Richards should've used another word - but maybe their mothers should've raised them better.

The thing is, if you're going to make an appeal to authority as an argument (which you're welcome to do if your experience is genuine) that's great, but in order for there to be an actual dialogue in this thread, you need to kind of stoop down to our level and at least give us a the jist of the theory involved. Don't just say you know stuff - explain it. I'd love to hear about it, really. I'm not being the least bit sarcastic.

I sort of touch on it above when I snapped at Rocketdog. But it isn't really the theory that is important, what's important is that they took it as offensive. And you know what, Michael Richards feels as if he was wrong to do it. Did you see his apology? The guy is almost in tears over it. Now, if he was trying to make a point about racial slurs, a la Richard Pryor, I'm sure he'd have been less broken up. He threw out hate. Not words, pure hate. He just happened to use those specific words. What he was trying to do is cut someone with language, so he used the most heated thing he could think of. If this was a commentary on how nigger is an overused slander with no real meaning and the black community needs to lighten up (which I happen to agree with), I'm sure the news reports would be very different.

Yeah, I mean... that's how I feel exactly. I'm just trying to understand how our views differ, if they in fact do.

I don't think you and I have much difference in terms of opinion on this, so much as ways of coming to the conclusion. My issue is with Rocketdog.

apropos of nothing, if you actually called them the acronym that's gay. BUT. If you called them WTC (White Trash Cunts) then that validates your entire existance.

It was so sad watching Richards apologize on the Letterman Show. :(

Whoa, this cat's got claws!

Here's the thing:

The two black guys were ignorant dumbfucks for inciting the shit in the first place. Richard was an equally ignorant dumbfuck for keeping the shit going and saying/reacting in the way that he did.

As for this lawsuit nonsense that the black guys are going for (if you saw thier interview on Extra): Mental trauma MY ASS - they deserve no money and are obviously only after the man for his riches at this point. This ladies and gentlemen is what we in the educated world like to call "niggerism." As for Richards, his credibility and career are destroyed and the only person he has to blame for that is himself. MANY a comedian - even the best have been heckled in thier day - the good comedians are the ones that turn it around and wind up making the hecklers look like a bunch of dumb shits. The hecklers are like "We want to see some punishment" - Richards has been banned from performing at one of the most well known comedy clubs in stand up, his reputation is shattered through no fault of his own, and he's ginormously borked up what's left of his career. What more do they want? Personally I think both parties were heavily at fault.

If I sued everybody I know cause they called me a nigger whether in jest or in insult I'd be a fucking RICH BITCH and I am almost certain that goes for almost every other black man on the planet as well. Nothing goes better together better than fools and money.

in all honesty, richards said that he did it cause he had a lot of anger at the time. I myself never support using that word period for what he used, but it really would've made better sense for him to find a different outlet for that anger before the show, to avoid the aforementioned incident

The worst part was when the audience cracks up and Jerry Seinfeld of all people has to tell them "Stop it, it's not funny." It was pretty depressing hearing two people who did a great job of making people laugh on Seinfeld trying to have the audience take them seriously and not doing a very good job of it.

I know, man. It was just sort of pitiful to watch.

yeah, it's sad knowing you're such a comedian that you can't be taken seriously anymore

It was more seing this amazing guy who has made me laugh countless timed up there apologizing like this. Him being laughed at and almost ridiculed just felt sad.

I found it really depressing as well. I've watched Seinfield for as long as I can remember and I've come to care about the actors. For something so terrible to happen and for Richards trying to apologize and not being taken seriously... Its really depressing. He did do something wrong but he is sincerely sorry for it and I'm sure he's still in a lot of pain over it. It's terrible.

Please tell me a time when its appropriate to use the word nigger. Because, see, you can't say theres a time for racial slurs and theres not a time for them. Obviously, they're there to get a reaction, so saying them at any point would be inappropriate.

His grief is probably only because of the heat it's brought him, not because he sincerely didn't feel that way. That's what I think anyway, he might actually feel bad, but I doubt it.

I know this discussion is a few pages down the line, but Im proud of the guy. He hit some assholes where it hurts and should stick by what he said with no apologies.

I keep seeing alot of people saying he could of handled it better, but I honestly think he handled it the best way possible. Hes a comedian and he completely shit talked some stupid fuck into a loop. You can tell someones losing a trash talking argument when they say the same shit over and over again.

"That was uncalled for" < Owned

Calling someone a nigger takes no comedic skill, and even less values. It was a moment of weakness, and nothing more, I hope.