That's not exactly what I was getting at, acid. I was just saying, it would suck to find out either way on both ends that when we die, God may or may not exist. It was just kind of a rebuttal against whoevers comment up there.

Either way, I don't believe in God because I don't want to go to hell (which I don't but ANYWAY); I believe in God because... Well. I like believing.

It's kind of hard to explain, but..

Actually, the Holy Grail of the anti-gay freaks, the Book of Leviticus, condones slavery as long as the slave is from another land.

http://bibleresources.bible.com/keyw...23&Submit.y=14

Here are all the things found regarding slavery in the Book of Leviticus:

Leviticus 19:20 (Whole Chapter)
" 'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed.

Leviticus 22:11 (Whole Chapter)
But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food.

Leviticus 25:39 (Whole Chapter)
" 'If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave.

Leviticus 25:42 (Whole Chapter)
Because the Israelites are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt, they must not be sold as slaves.

Leviticus 25:44 (Whole Chapter)
" 'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

Leviticus 25:46 (Whole Chapter)
You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Leviticus 26:13 (Whole Chapter)
I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt so that you would no longer be slaves to the Egyptians; I broke the bars of your yoke and enabled you to walk with heads held high.

Wow, huh? So yeah, you can have slaves, they just can't be from your own nation. I know I wouldn't worship this God . . . So I guess I better hope Christians are wrong. I'm Atheist kinda, but I do believe in a "higher power", just not the Christians' version.

Heck, the Book of Leviticus is my Holy Grail against Christianity; it shows the hypocracy of the Bible in its fullest and most potent form. If you're gay, you get executed and go to Hell. If you're a prostitute, you get executed and go to Hell. If you sleep with a woman while she's on her period . . . you get executed and go to Hell. Okay, not really (not in all cases), but that's the jist of it all.

So....did Jenna Jameson say she believed in God?
Actually...has ANY pornstar openly admitted to being a practicing christian?

It'd be fucking hilarious to see that priest's face explode if JJ says that she believes in God and goes to church every sunday XD

Pascal's Wager is not a good reason to believe in God, but it sure as hell is a good reason to seek God.

Patty - Leviticus is Old Testament. What you're reading is Mosaic Law, which was "fulfilled" (read: made obsolete) by Jesus. Not sure why you guys love the OT books so much, but it would be cool if you read the whole book sometime.

Also, the "if you X, you go to hell" thing is actually not quite accurate. The OT Jews didn't have a hell or even an afterlife, actually. Sounds crazy, but go look for explicit mention of the afterlife in the OT the likes of which you can easily find in the NT.

Another thing is the difference between what slavery meant in the OT, NT and pre-Civil War America. In the OT, these people were usually prisoners of war and in the NT, they were people with outstanding debts and were treated more like indentured servants.

One more reason everyone should be Lutheran...we only use the Old Testament for arts and crafts time. Gotta love those purple arks full of blue elephants and polka-dotted tigers.

All slaves were pardoned of thier debts and freed every 7 years as well.

Oh right. Jubilee. I forgot about that. I'm not sure that applied to slavery in the Roman society, though, which Paul condoned. But that could be an "everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial" type situation. Also, again, these slaves were not really mistreated and had the rights of basic citizens, minus the right to keep their earnings. Some of them were as well respected in the community as PhDs would be today.

Well, a cursory glance at the wikipedia article states that Spartacus was either an outlaw or a prisoner of war and that this took place over 100 years before Paul wrote about the Romans and slavery. The Servile Wars (one of which was lead by Spartacus) may have had an effect on Roman slavery policy. So, I'm not really sure your point is relevent.

It's interesting to me no one has differentiated hard and soft core porn here. In fact, it's been generally and assumed they hold the same level of morality. Although I don't think a situation in which every participant is happy is an immoral thing, I'm suprised no one would find paid penetration worse than tastefully done nude photography. Is everyone buying into the definition of "erotica" crap- personally I say that's more about art than jollies- or is it just assumed due to Jenna (sp? do I care?) that they are one and the same or is this an actual viewpoint?

I'm pretty sure if it was supposed to be indicative of emotional/spiritual pain it wouldn't have been described as a burning lake of fire. You aren't cozeying up to this symbolic interpretation because the idea of God inflicting real pain makes you a little uncomfortable, are you? Interpretation based off of personal desires isn't a good thing.

Oh, I forgot that Christianity is the only popular western religion that involves God/s and love in a way which condemns all other faiths to hell.

Made obsolete? That's your opinion. There were many early christians called Ebionites (Peter very likely being one of them, Gal 2:14) who thought you needed to convert to Judaism and follow their laws in order to be saved by Christ.

This is also very debatable, especially considering how the Bible says Enoch was swooped up into Heaven while he was still alive. There was someone else in the OT who was taken up while alive too I believe, but I forget who. Please don't make such sweeping generalities as if they're airtight facts when you (hopefully) know they aren't.

Oh, and if the Christian heaven does exist, porn stars aren't getting in, or gay people, or anybody non-Christan (2/3rds of the world) regardless of how you live your life. But then, I don't believe in the Christian heaven.

I'm not going to further derail this thread with a pointless debate, but I'd just like to point out the irony in your castigating me with one side of your mouth for being certain about my interpretation of scripture, while making assertions yourself with the other, e.g. who gets into heaven, about the lake of fire (which I'm certain is a literary device).

The Romans had no real concept of "innocents." Either you were a citizen, or subservient. The value of a slave was subjective, so yeah, it's entirely possible (and did in fact happen) that slaves were respected in a few Roman communities. Those crucified as a warning to Spartacus would've been slaves of no particular value whatsoever.

Slaves could be considered a part of a family, or they could just be treated like shit, or worked half to death in the mines. Which is essentially not that different from how slaves were treated in the 19th century South.

They hardly had the "basic rights" of citizens. They couldn't vote after all. It was bad enough with the Plebes. ;(

As for who gets into heaven, I stressed the Christian heaven, as is believed by the majority of the Christian leadership and followers. If you disagree with my assessment of who gets in then you're not mainstream Christianity.

As for the lake of fire, John was being shown visions by God. This negates the notion that John was specifically using those words and/or ideas as a clever literary device. Unless, of course, you want to call bullshit on his claim that visions were shown to him by God (1:10-11).

This reminds me of a news story a while ago about a female teacher who had nude/semi-erotic pictures of herself posted on the internet by way of her artistic lover, and she ended up getting suspended from school because another teacher found the website they were on and reported it. Conservatives were saying how it was immoral while Liberals were saying she has every right to express herself in this way. It'll be interesting to see whether God's a conservative or liberal, if one exists.

I like how you question the integrity of scripture because it conflicts with your worldview. I also like how every thread you post in manages to derail into some rant about your delusions of persecution. If a religious person ever was as obnoxious and inane about homosexuals as you are about them, you'd be screaming bloody murder. You whine about being called a sinner and yet the bible calls all men sinners. You condemn the entirety of the religious right as intolerant bigots and haters. You have become that which you loathe. I hope you're proud of yourself.

I'm just going to close this now before another round of The Neverending Battle of Patty vs Christianity can be fought.